SPEAKER_00: You're listening to the podcast of Christ Methodist Church in Memphis, Tennessee.
SPEAKER_00: Join us for an insightful conversation where faith intersects with real life experiences and discover how God is at work in our world.
SPEAKER_00: Sure, we're good.
SPEAKER_00: We're here today with Ashley B.
SPEAKER_00: Collins.
SPEAKER_00: She is the author of But God Stories of Hope and Grace from an Alabama Jail, a 31-day devotional.
SPEAKER_00: Ashley, it's good to meet you.
SPEAKER_00: It's good to talk to you today.
SPEAKER_03: Yes, thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_00: Well, the bee in your name, I think our church members might recognize that bee.
SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me what that bee in your name is?
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
SPEAKER_03: So my maid name is Borland.
SPEAKER_03: So I am the daughter of Don and Paula Borland.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_03: And yes, I've grown up in Christchurch, Memphis, since I was born.
SPEAKER_00: There we go.
SPEAKER_00: And so you you also went to CMDS.
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: And you were telling me an interest an interesting fact before we started.
SPEAKER_03: Oh yes.
SPEAKER_03: My mom loves this interesting fact.
SPEAKER_03: So when I was in first grade, I was the first girl to go to the principal's office.
SPEAKER_03: So Mr.
SPEAKER_03: Fox, way back in the day, was the principal.
SPEAKER_03: And I uh went to see him because hit a boy with a jump rope, you know.
SPEAKER_03: Just he he was He probably deserved it.
SPEAKER_00: He did.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: And the and the thing was they didn't call my parents that I went to the principal's office.
SPEAKER_03: Uh oh.
SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't until a few days later my mom ran into Mr.
SPEAKER_03: Fox in the grocery store and he said, Paula, I saw your daughter the other day.
SPEAKER_03: And she's like, You did?
SPEAKER_03: It's like, yes.
SPEAKER_03: Well, she kind of hit a boy with a jump rope, but Mr.
SPEAKER_03: Fox even said he probably deserved it.
SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah, mom came home and was not happy with that.
SPEAKER_00: That's that's a great story.
SPEAKER_00: And I'm glad that your legacy at Christmouth is day school now.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_03: They should have a plaque in my name right outside the principal's office.
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
SPEAKER_00: The little uh mugshot to go with to tie in.
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a good segue.
SPEAKER_00: You work in prison ministry.
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I do.
SPEAKER_00: So okay, so let's make that jump.
SPEAKER_00: Tell me how how did you get involved?
SPEAKER_00: Your book is about prison ministry stories.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me a little bit about how you got involved initially?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: So I wasn't looking to be involved in jail ministry.
SPEAKER_03: I didn't pursue it, but God kind of stirred in my heart that I needed to share my faith somewhere.
SPEAKER_03: And I was thinking, oh, well, I'll just start a Bible study at church.
SPEAKER_03: You know, I've done it before, and and God said, no, that's not where I want you to go.
SPEAKER_03: And so I kept praying about it and he kept stirring in my heart.
SPEAKER_03: And finally I walked into a nonprofit called the Neighborhood Christian Center.
SPEAKER_03: Now there's one in Memphis.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_03: So they actually planted one in Decatur, Alabama, very cool, where I am from.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: And so I walked in there and I talked with the director, and one of their ministries among many was jail and prison.
SPEAKER_03: And I inquired about it, not because I was interested in participating in it, but just was like, you go into jails?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: You know, and he was like, Well, why don't you just come to class with us next Tuesday?
SPEAKER_03: And you can see.
SPEAKER_03: And before I could say, No, I'm busy, God answered for me and said, sure, I'll be there.
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00: What so going in that first time, I'm sure you had some expectations and presumptions.
SPEAKER_00: What got quickly dissolved as you went in for that first time?
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, growing up in Memphis, really the only thing I knew about incarcerated people were their mugshots on the evening news.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: And you would just see it flash and you wouldn't think about, oh, I wonder how their family's doing or how their kids.
SPEAKER_03: You'd be like, well, what did they do?
SPEAKER_03: And they deserve to go to prison for life or or whatever.
SPEAKER_03: And so I kind of went in scared.
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I didn't know what to think about.
SPEAKER_03: I kind of grew up in a bubble, I guess you could say, kind of sheltered in a good way.
SPEAKER_03: I would say in a good way.
SPEAKER_03: And so, in that you have to press the button and you have to walk through five heavily locked doors.
SPEAKER_03: And then when the women came in in their jumpsuits, I was still a little scared.
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I did not say a word.
SPEAKER_03: And usually I'll pipe in something, you know, in a small group setting, or I did not say a word.
SPEAKER_03: But I just took it all in.
SPEAKER_03: God had softened my heart as soon as those ladies started walking in.
SPEAKER_03: And when they started sharing some of their stories, my heart just broke for them.
SPEAKER_03: And realizing just in that first class, I have a lot in common with these women.
SPEAKER_03: You know, we all need grace.
SPEAKER_03: We all have sinned.
SPEAKER_03: And we all make mistakes, some bigger than others, but with the life that they lived growing up, it was kind of a shock to my heart.
SPEAKER_03: And if I had grown up like most of these women, I would be sitting right next to them because they don't know anything different.
SPEAKER_03: Some of the women thought selling drugs out of your mobile home was normal, that that was a normal job for mom and dad, or just mom or just dad.
SPEAKER_03: They had people coming in at all hours of the night, and they thought that was normal with no fault of their own.
SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, me growing up in Christchurch, I knew about Jesus from the felt boards in two-year-old Sunday school, two and three-year-old Sunday school.
SPEAKER_03: And so that first class, God said, This is where I want you to share your faith and to share the gospel.
SPEAKER_00: And after So it was a like an instant heart change, instant like this is where I'm called to be.
SPEAKER_03: Walking out, walking out of the jail after two hours being in there, God said, This is where I want you to share the gospel and the love of Jesus that you've been taught your whole life.
SPEAKER_03: And I said, Okay.
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00: And what jail specifically was this?
SPEAKER_03: So this is the Morgan County Jail in Decatur, Alabama.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_03: So the neighborhood Christian Center is in downtown Decatur and the jail is literally right down the street.
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
SPEAKER_03: So the jail is in the middle of downtown Decatur.
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
SPEAKER_00: So tell me the difference between your first visit and your second visit.
SPEAKER_00: What was that second visit like walking in?
SPEAKER_03: The second visit, I was a little excited.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: I was like, I can't wait to see these women again.
SPEAKER_03: I didn't think I would, I would think that.
SPEAKER_03: I would think I would still have some hesitancy because you'll read in the first story that it was about my my first time going into jail.
SPEAKER_03: And I used the scripture, 1 Samuel 16, 7.
SPEAKER_03: Man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart.
SPEAKER_03: And so I found out later that, okay, I went in with the judgmental heart.
SPEAKER_03: Well, I wonder what these women did, thinking in my mind.
SPEAKER_03: But then God slowly softened my heart.
SPEAKER_03: But then they thought, who's this new church lady coming in?
SPEAKER_03: You know, what is she doing here?
SPEAKER_03: And so after I kept showing up, and that second time, I shared a little bit about my story and I saw their walls start coming down.
SPEAKER_03: And so every week I kept showing up.
SPEAKER_03: And then the walls literally all came down because again, we're gonna be on the same playing field.
SPEAKER_03: As soon as I walk into that jail, into that classroom with these women, we're all the same.
SPEAKER_03: And so we're all gonna talk about sin.
SPEAKER_03: We're all gonna talk about Jesus and how He saved us all from our sins because all have fallen short from the glory of God.
SPEAKER_03: And so we have all that in common.
SPEAKER_03: And so it got easier and easier, a lot quicker than than I than I thought.
SPEAKER_03: And then they received me a lot quicker than I thought too.
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's you kind of answer what I want to ask, but it's the the perception that like you talk about your perception of them as you walked in, and then there's the inverse of their perception of you.
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: Can you talk about what it was like to break down those walls and to build the I mean, this is a relationship.
SPEAKER_00: Plain and simple.
SPEAKER_00: Like can you talk about the intentionality of that and what that was walking with them to build that relationship between the two of y'all or the the group of y'all?
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
SPEAKER_03: And so the first class I went into was is called Jobs for Life.
SPEAKER_03: So all the classes at the Neighborhood Christian Center are faith-based.
SPEAKER_03: I now teach a strict Bible study.
SPEAKER_03: So we do videos of we're doing Jenny Allen's new book.
SPEAKER_03: We do Lisa Harper, we do Priscilla Shire.
SPEAKER_03: But way back when we did a Jobs for Life, which is a faith-based jobs class.
SPEAKER_03: And then I moved into a Bible study.
SPEAKER_03: And so once we kind of moved into a Bible study into a smaller class, we all got to share some because we're in there for two hours.
SPEAKER_03: You think, man, that's a long time to have a Bible study.
SPEAKER_03: Usually it's like an hour, but we need a lot, a lot longer time than that because I want everyone to share.
SPEAKER_03: I want us to be vulnerable.
SPEAKER_03: I want it to be a safe place.
SPEAKER_03: I have a few rules in my Bible study that everything that is stated in the Bible study stays here.
SPEAKER_03: And if I hear that someone is talking back in the pods, that's their living quarters about anybody else, then they will get kicked out of the class.
SPEAKER_03: Because I'm very serious.
SPEAKER_03: I want this to be a very comfortable place, a safe place, because a lot of them have not talked about their traumas.
SPEAKER_03: And so we do get, I do like a smaller class because of that.
SPEAKER_03: And so with the smaller class, our walls did break down a lot faster than than I thought because we got right into it.
SPEAKER_03: We got into the nitty-gritty.
SPEAKER_03: And you know, comparison a lot of time at church, you you just kind of stay at the surface level, which I think is, you know, I wish more people would open.
SPEAKER_03: But but when you go into jail, they have nothing to lose.
SPEAKER_03: And once they understand that Jesus Christ died for their sins and he loves them unconditionally, then you see that light bulb turn on and their demeanor changes, their perspective changes, their behavior behind bars changes.
SPEAKER_03: And the officers, the warden, they see a difference in these classes that we bring in because we're bringing in the true gospel of Jesus.
SPEAKER_03: And some of them have never heard about Jesus, some of them had a really horrible time in church, like a lot of people do.
SPEAKER_03: And so we've got to come at it from a couple different ways and kind of know the audience.
SPEAKER_03: So if someone has never heard Jesus, I want to make sure we start at the very beginning.
SPEAKER_03: If somebody knew Jesus, but then something horrible happened in their life, I want to also be sensitive to that as well.
SPEAKER_00: I want to get you to tell two stories.
SPEAKER_00: And I know what you stated, so within the confidentiality of what you can share to respect the group.
SPEAKER_00: But can you tell me a moment that sticks out where it's like you saw those walls break down, you saw like, oh, we're building this relationship and God is moving kind of in this.
SPEAKER_00: And then also like you were talking about, so the second story would be where you saw maybe the guards or whoever it was, there was a change within some of these people and how they were living in their pods and going about.
SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me those two stories?
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
SPEAKER_03: And so and so all the stories in the book, of course, I'm allowed to talk about because they they gave me permission and all of that.
SPEAKER_03: And so the for the first question, I would say that when they felt comfortable talking about trauma, one one woman talked about some very heavy trauma that she had suffered from a relative and it was sexual abuse, it was mental, it was physical, and they didn't they didn't have a safe place or anyone to run to.
SPEAKER_03: And so, and she hadn't talked about it in probably 20 years.
SPEAKER_03: But within the the Bible study, we were talking about we've got to talk about the trauma just so we're not burdening ourselves with that.
SPEAKER_03: We like to lighten our load and we're not keep harboring that bitterness and unforgiveness that we have toward others.
SPEAKER_03: So we really dive a lot into getting rid of that bitterness and unforgiveness in a healthy, safe way.
SPEAKER_03: I'm not telling them forget what happened, but but this woman, you know, her demeanor changed when she just got it off your chest, you know, her chest.
SPEAKER_03: And I know a lot of your listeners probably once they get something off their chest, they're immediately the burden is just kind of lifted.
SPEAKER_03: Their load is lighter when they give it to God or they share it with others who they want to be accountable to.
SPEAKER_03: And so that's always good when you see that light bulb click and they they see Jesus, they start learning the gospel and they just want to dive right in.
SPEAKER_03: And then what I always tell them is that their trauma, their testimony, is gonna help so many people.
SPEAKER_03: So we're not gonna hide in shame.
SPEAKER_03: God uses our stories for good.
SPEAKER_03: And so if they're willing to share their trauma, share their testimony with others, they're gonna change the world.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so one story in the book, I actually have a woman who used her limited resources for to share the gospel.
SPEAKER_03: So what she did was we started talking about memorizing scripture and pulling out God's promises of scripture.
SPEAKER_03: And so she went into her pod.
SPEAKER_03: She had a couple pieces of paper and a state-issued pen, which is pretty much the inside of an ink pen.
SPEAKER_03: You barely can write with it, it's so flimsy.
SPEAKER_03: But she started writing Bible verses down.
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
SPEAKER_03: And she, the little strips of paper, and she got a hold of a Ziploc bag.
SPEAKER_03: Now, technically it was contraband, but they didn't take it up.
SPEAKER_03: The guards didn't take it up, which was good.
SPEAKER_03: So she started putting those pieces of paper in the little plastic bag, and she would bring it to class, and so all of us would pick out a little piece of paper, we would read the verse, and every time, at least one, a lot of the times more, we will read the verse and we would get chills because we would be going through something, a struggle, a temptation, a sin that we're that we're hiding, and the verse would just highlight it.
SPEAKER_03: And then we would share about it.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: And so it started with just our class, and then it kind of got around.
SPEAKER_03: So then everyone in their pod wanted a piece of paper.
SPEAKER_03: Then the guards noticed.
SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
SPEAKER_03: So then the guards started coming and picking out a Bible verse, and then they would share with the inmates what that Bible verse shared with them.
SPEAKER_03: So uh sometime, a lot of the time, relationships between the inmates and the officers is very contentious.
SPEAKER_03: Now, the officers are doing their job, sure.
SPEAKER_03: But of course, there are some that don't do it very well.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: But but our jail has some really, really good officers.
SPEAKER_03: And so that helped them grow a relationship deeper than inmate guard, but they shared these little pieces of paper and that they would start sharing with each other.
SPEAKER_03: And so and and the guards really do when they can tell who comes to class and who doesn't, just with the behavior.
SPEAKER_03: And I know that during COVID we had to shut down a little bit.
SPEAKER_03: Now, not a lot.
SPEAKER_03: I mean, we but during that time, the officer said we need these classes back because I mean they saw a huge difference when there was no classes going along.
SPEAKER_03: And so the Neighborhood Christian Center has 30 to 40 biblical classes a week for men and women.
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
SPEAKER_03: So they don't have an excuse that there's not a class to go to because there's several classes a day that that they can go to.
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00: Well now, and like I want to go back and address something because I should have asked this at the start.
SPEAKER_00: This is not your full-time career necessarily.
SPEAKER_00: So what do you do?
SPEAKER_03: What was your before what were you doing work-wise for this or well actually I work at the Neighborhood Christian Center now.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_03: Now So I started as a volunteer through jail ministry.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_03: And then I came on the board of directors for several years.
SPEAKER_03: And then there was a woman who was going on maternity leave.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_03: And so I was about, I was contracting with marketing and website building, website design.
SPEAKER_03: And the director asked, Hey, do you want to fill in the maternity leave?
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Sure.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: And I've been there for 11 years.
SPEAKER_03: So she never came back.
SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, I'll just stay on here.
SPEAKER_03: And so, and so this has had to give me the opportunity to even do more in jail ministry and kind of help build the jail ministry within the neighborhood Christian Center.
SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00: And uh the point that I was really trying to get to is you're going into this and you're helping women work through trauma.
SPEAKER_00: They're helping you're helping them work through their life.
SPEAKER_00: You're not a licensed therapist.
SPEAKER_03: Oh no.
SPEAKER_00: Far from it.
SPEAKER_00: And that's the point is you can do this.
SPEAKER_00: God called you to this, he equipped you to do this.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And so he has led you into this ministry that you're it sounds like you're thriving in.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And they're working through and thriving in.
SPEAKER_00: And so I that's the word.
SPEAKER_00: Can you share just that word of encouragement of like, just because you're not doing this as a career or whatever, if God calls you to it, he will equip you to handle it.
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03: And that's an example of the book.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: I'm not a writer.
SPEAKER_03: I don't even like writing.
SPEAKER_03: Now I write for the Neighborhood Christian Center, their newsletter and their website and stuff, but that's, you know, simple stuff.
SPEAKER_03: So when God called me to write the book, I told him no.
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
SPEAKER_03: I said, You're asking the wrong person.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: So I went to Auburn University and the only class I dropped was journalism 101.
SPEAKER_02: There we go.
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I'm not cut out for journalism.
SPEAKER_03: Let's just so I said no to public relations and entered communication because you don't need a journalism class for communication.
SPEAKER_03: And so, but God kept stirring in my heart.
SPEAKER_03: Now it took a while, but he said, I'm going to equip and prepare you to use these women's stories because I want people to know their stories because they can't get their stories out there.
SPEAKER_03: So he was just going to use me as a vehicle to share the gospel through their but God moments, their but God stories.
SPEAKER_03: And so once I said yes, everything started falling into line.
SPEAKER_03: And so I think that's what people can be fearful of and scared of that I don't know how to do this.
SPEAKER_03: Why, why can't God ask someone else to do that?
SPEAKER_03: But God in scripture says, I'm going to be with you.
SPEAKER_03: I mean, he tells Joshua, be strong and courageous, because I'm your Lord and I will be with you.
SPEAKER_03: And so once I said yes in in full obedience to that, two and a half years later, published a book.
SPEAKER_03: Who would have thought that?
SPEAKER_03: Not me.
SPEAKER_03: I'll be the last person to think I would have published a book.
SPEAKER_03: But again, if God stirred in your heart to use your gifts and talents for his glory, just say yes and then watch God work in your life.
SPEAKER_00: Was there a moment where you realized, like, yeah, I gotta do this?
SPEAKER_00: Or was it just kind of the gradual breaking down of like, okay, you're right, God, I'll do this?
SPEAKER_00: What was kind of that process?
SPEAKER_03: It was it was kind of gradual.
SPEAKER_03: So we have the neighborhood Christian Center also has a transitional home that we have a a few women at a time come out of Morgan County Jail and they enter our transitional home, which is a faith-based program where we help them kind of transition back into the community.
SPEAKER_03: And so several of those women I started kind of talking to.
SPEAKER_03: They were doing extremely well, several of them indicators.
SPEAKER_03: So I I started kind of talking to them to say, you know, what was a butt-God moment when you were in jail?
SPEAKER_03: And so we sat down and I would talk to them, they would write it down, and then I was like, okay, let's see if I can put this into a format.
SPEAKER_03: And so it kind of, I was like, let's see if this will work.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: Like what I was thinking, what God had put on in my mind and in my heart, let's see if this is gonna actually work.
SPEAKER_03: And he just laid it out.
SPEAKER_03: It I mean, he laid it out, he gave me the title, but God, before I even said yes.
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
SPEAKER_03: Because the phrase but God happens a lot in scripture.
SPEAKER_03: And it also happens a lot in people's life.
SPEAKER_03: So now when I hear, I mean, I hear pastors say but God, I hear just people talking, and that phrase just kept, it was like a highlighter in my mind when we would read about in scripture or the women would say it.
SPEAKER_03: So I was like, there's something here.
SPEAKER_03: And so once I started talking to one woman, two women, three women, I was like, okay, God, I see what you want me to do, and you're gonna have to help me, but I will, I will do it.
SPEAKER_00: I want to talk a little bit about the writing process, just from the perspective you're carrying, I know you got permission to share the stories that you did, but you're carrying some very heavy stories.
SPEAKER_00: How did that writing process?
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I guess the ultimate question I'm asking is like, how did God's redemption of that shine through carrying the burden of those heavy heavy stories and telling them for those women?
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
SPEAKER_03: And so some of the women had several stories.
SPEAKER_03: And so, and I loved to sit down with them.
SPEAKER_03: Some wrote it down, some were still incarcerated at the time.
SPEAKER_03: So every time they would come to my class, we would kind of look at it.
SPEAKER_03: And I just wanted to share their story.
SPEAKER_03: It has my name is not on their story.
SPEAKER_03: And so they would we would talk about it, I would write it down, and I would I would write their story.
SPEAKER_03: Then I would give it back to them.
SPEAKER_03: And I said, I want to make sure this is accurate.
SPEAKER_03: This is, is there too much information?
SPEAKER_03: Is there too little information?
SPEAKER_03: They had full, and then once they approved it, I didn't change it.
SPEAKER_03: And so kind of God worked through through them through them because I wanted to let them know you're in control.
SPEAKER_03: I just appreciate you sharing your story because your story is going to help so many people.
SPEAKER_03: So many who read these stories will be encouraged, will be filled with hope, and maybe be reminded of God's grace.
SPEAKER_03: I know I take God's grace for granted a lot.
SPEAKER_03: And they really know the true depth of grace.
SPEAKER_03: And they remind me so much about that through their stories.
SPEAKER_03: And so, so really, I mean, Holy Spirit really helped me write these stories and get it to where they loved it and they couldn't wait to see it in the book.
SPEAKER_00: That's what I was good.
SPEAKER_00: When you came to them and asked them, what was their initial reaction?
SPEAKER_00: Were they excited?
SPEAKER_00: Were they hesitant?
SPEAKER_00: What was the kind of like I mean?
SPEAKER_03: I mean, most of them were, yes.
SPEAKER_03: I mean, but and a lot of them like, well, let me pray about it and see what what I want to share.
SPEAKER_03: And I said, Great.
SPEAKER_03: And if, you know, I had a few write stories, but then they didn't want to end the book.
SPEAKER_03: And I said, that is all right, you know.
SPEAKER_03: And I ended up having more than you know, I needed to anyway.
SPEAKER_03: And so God kind of filtered that, that through.
SPEAKER_03: But but many of them were like, I've I've never written my testimony before.
SPEAKER_03: This is gonna be a a great time to write it down.
SPEAKER_03: So they were excited to to work with me and and they couldn't wait for the book to come out.
SPEAKER_03: I mean, and when I would I delivered most of them, I had to mail a few because some of them have moved away.
SPEAKER_03: But but they were just so excited.
SPEAKER_03: And then it one of them texted me and said, 'cause she's she'd been out of jail for about 10 years at this point.
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
SPEAKER_03: And she said, This reminded me of my story.
SPEAKER_03: I kind of had forgotten what I went through.
SPEAKER_03: And this reminded me more of how God redeemed my life, and I need to share more about my story.
SPEAKER_03: Because she had shared her story a couple years after jail.
SPEAKER_03: Then there was about six or seven years where she really didn't tell me more, and she goes, I helped so many people with my story.
SPEAKER_03: I need to start sharing it again.
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00: Well, one of the themes in the book that you talk about is labels.
SPEAKER_00: It's just like failure and addict and all these negative things that we apply to ourselves and that can sometimes kind of be true about ourselves, or at least our perception.
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: So when did you realize how powerful labels were in this process?
SPEAKER_03: Gosh, when they when they start talking about themselves and they say, Oh, I'm just worthless.
SPEAKER_03: I'm not going to amount to anything because that's all I've been told my whole life.
SPEAKER_03: My parents told me they were proud of me probably since I was in diapers.
SPEAKER_03: And probably every day they told me they loved me.
SPEAKER_03: Some people have never heard, I'm proud of you.
SPEAKER_03: And I love you.
SPEAKER_03: And so I think I would think the same way.
SPEAKER_03: I'm worthless, I'm helpless, not good enough.
SPEAKER_03: I'm broken.
SPEAKER_03: I've done so much that I can't come back from.
SPEAKER_03: Enter Jesus.
SPEAKER_03: And Jesus can take the brokenness, the feeling of unworthlessness, of helplessness into you are an adopted child of the king if you believe in Jesus Christ, that you are in his inheritance, that he loves you unconditionally.
SPEAKER_03: So I try to change their perspective of the labels that either they call themselves or the world has called them their whole life, and say, We don't, we're not going to go by what the world standards are.
SPEAKER_03: We're going to go about the mighty king who gives us our identity.
SPEAKER_03: Because if you put your identity in anything else, you will feel awful.
SPEAKER_03: You will feel worthless.
SPEAKER_03: But if your identity is in a king in who he says you are, then your heart will be just joyful and happy because that's who you are, if you are a child of God.
SPEAKER_00: I read about an exercise you did in one of your classes where you had everybody write their write a label down.
SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me about that exercise and what happened and what y'all did and the reaction you saw?
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
SPEAKER_03: And so this was actually at my I did a book event in the Morgan County Jail and gave the women my book.
SPEAKER_03: And so I wanted to bring a shredder in there, but they stopped me and they said I couldn't bring the shredder.
SPEAKER_03: So I had to, I had to detour on that.
SPEAKER_03: I had to call an audible.
SPEAKER_03: And so I because I think that's the main thing that that those labels just wear them down so much.
SPEAKER_03: And so I had them, I said, write a word or a phrase, and then one of them said, Can I write more than one?
SPEAKER_03: And I said, This is your activity.
SPEAKER_03: And so they would write down a word that they wanted a label that they wanted to get rid of.
SPEAKER_03: And so what we did, we all wrote down labels, and then we ripped it up, ripped up the paper and threw it in the air.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: And and I said, That label is gone.
SPEAKER_03: And what label are you going to identify with?
SPEAKER_03: It's those that God only has given you.
SPEAKER_03: So they felt a release, a freedom in a sense, while in jail, a freedom of those labels being torn up.
SPEAKER_03: They're not true, and we're not going to believe them anymore.
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
SPEAKER_00: That's so powerful.
SPEAKER_00: And I think the thing that I kind of want to transition to here is like, this is not speaking so generally or specifically to the inmates, is why do we tend to believe labels like that?
SPEAKER_00: What is the the pool of the world that makes us believe we are a failure or whatever it may be?
SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, social media is a lot of it.
SPEAKER_03: TV, things that we see and the culture sees, I mean, you can only take so much before you start believing it.
SPEAKER_03: If you hear it over and over and over and over again, you kind of doubt yourself.
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it goes all the way back to the garden with Eve, doubting.
SPEAKER_03: You know, the the devil was just put that little doubt.
SPEAKER_03: And so if we're going to start to doubt our identity, seeing on social media or the news that Christians are awful.
SPEAKER_03: Look what Christians are doing.
SPEAKER_03: And then, but we need to always go back to scriptures.
SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's what I I tell these women.
SPEAKER_03: I said, if you're starting to believe these labels, you have to go to the promises of Jesus and who God says that you are.
SPEAKER_03: And because it's real easy for us, because our mind plays tricks on us.
SPEAKER_03: And so if our mind and our heart aren't aligned in the scriptures, we're going to be way off course.
SPEAKER_03: And the farther you go off course, the longer it is going to take back.
SPEAKER_03: Now, Jesus is going to be with us on our course, but we've got to make that decision to turn around and come back to him.
SPEAKER_00: That's so awesome.
SPEAKER_00: And that's that that's kind of what like, based on what you've seen in these women, what does it take for us to replace the labels that we've given ourselves with what God tells us who we are?
SPEAKER_03: And that's something where, you know, we're starting at the basics with the Bible.
SPEAKER_03: The Bible is living and breathing.
SPEAKER_03: And so even if you've read a story a hundred times, that 101st time, depending on what you're going through, it's going to jump out of the page.
SPEAKER_03: The Holy Spirit will stir in your heart and give you that encouragement that you need for that day.
SPEAKER_03: And so I tell them you got to stay in your word, especially they are cooped up.
SPEAKER_03: They go out not a lot, I will say.
SPEAKER_03: So they're and they're in there with women.
SPEAKER_03: They're not choosing to live with.
SPEAKER_03: And so it's very chaotic, very loud.
SPEAKER_03: You have women who aren't Christians who are just cussing up a storm and talking about things that you don't want to hear.
SPEAKER_03: And it's hard to shut that down.
SPEAKER_03: So I said, you've got to be grounded in the scriptures.
SPEAKER_03: And if your mind and heart starts to wander, you just go back to the word.
SPEAKER_03: And I always tell them, look up what the scripture says about God's promises.
SPEAKER_03: Because he's always kept his promises and he always will keep his promises.
SPEAKER_03: So just being grounded in scripture, because the more you're in scripture, the more your mind's going to be focused on what you just read and what you've just meditated on instead of the chaotic world around you.
SPEAKER_00: That's so great.
SPEAKER_00: So for the listener, if they're feeling defined by their mistakes or their past, what's your final word for them?
SPEAKER_03: Golly, the you are not defined by your mistake, because God redeems that.
SPEAKER_03: We've all made mistakes.
SPEAKER_03: We have all sinned.
SPEAKER_03: And some got caught for it, some have not.
SPEAKER_03: And so if if you're struggling with that label or with the shame or the guilt of a sinner sins that that have happened in your life, just go to God because He, He, we just had Easter, right?
SPEAKER_03: Jesus took all of our sins and nailed it to the cross with him and took that away from us.
SPEAKER_03: So that if you believe in Jesus, that he died for the cross and he is your savior, when God looks at you, he's not going to see you and your sin because Jesus is between me and God and he sees perfection through Jesus.
SPEAKER_03: And so that's what I want to encourage people with, especially with the book of hope and redemption.
SPEAKER_03: No matter what you've done, you're not defined by your mistake.
SPEAKER_03: The culture in the world might define you by that and label you as inmate, addict, worthless.
SPEAKER_03: But that's not how God looks at you because again, he's going to see Jesus if you believe that he is your savior.
SPEAKER_03: And so we talk a lot about, you know, becoming a Christian.
SPEAKER_03: And do you really believe?
SPEAKER_03: You might have thought you believed.
SPEAKER_03: Several women of the book knew about God, but they never had that personal relationship with him.
SPEAKER_03: So we we talk about that a lot because I don't want to miss an opportunity because jail is where you're waiting.
SPEAKER_03: Kind of like a holding cell before your trial or before you go to prison or you're on probation.
SPEAKER_03: And so I don't know when they're going to be released a lot of the time.
SPEAKER_03: So I don't want to miss that opportunity to share the gospel and the love of Jesus with them before they're transferred or moved.
SPEAKER_03: And so so we talk about that a lot.
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00: Well, as we kind of start to wrap up, one of my last questions is where do people get your book?
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we'll put a link in the show notes, but where where else can they look for you?
SPEAKER_00: Where else can they find the book and find more about you?
SPEAKER_00: Can you give us some of that?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: So my website is AshleyBcollins.com and you can get the hardback and the soft cover on there.
SPEAKER_03: It's also on Amazon and then BarnesandNoble.com.
SPEAKER_03: Amazon, so you if you want the hardcover, definitely go to my website because I have it a lot cheaper because the publisher kind of set the prices and I said, I don't want to sell it for that much.
SPEAKER_03: So, but the soft cover, if you want it quickly, Amazon is probably the best place to go.
SPEAKER_03: And you can put in Ashley B.
SPEAKER_03: Collins and Amazon, and it should pull right up.
SPEAKER_00: Good deal.
SPEAKER_00: Well, the last thing I I want to ask is will you pray for the listener over what we've just shared, what we've talked about, and just the women that you work with and just kind of how God may be stirring the listener's heart through all of this conversation.
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
SPEAKER_03: Dear Heavenly Father, I just thank you so much for another day to wake up.
SPEAKER_03: And I just want these, the women in the in the book, I want the the them to just light up people's heart.
SPEAKER_03: And for the listeners and the readers, if you have a stirring in your heart to use your gifts and talents, please follow and say yes to Jesus.
SPEAKER_03: And also if you're struggling with something, you're struggling with a label, if you're struggling with shame or guilt of a sin, go talk to a trusted friend and give it to God as well, because that burden is going to be heavy until you release that to God and then also to someone who is maybe in your accountability circle circle or one of your best friends or a counselor.
SPEAKER_03: And I just pray over everyone that they will hear the gospel.
SPEAKER_03: And we need a sense of urgency to share the gospel with everyone that we meet.
SPEAKER_03: So I hope that these stories bless all the readers and that the listeners have learned some something about hope or redemption or transformation today on this podcast.
SPEAKER_03: In Jesus' holy name.
SPEAKER_03: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: Ashley, thanks so much for sharing today.
SPEAKER_03: Yes, thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the podcast for Christ Methodist Church in Memphis, Tennessee.
SPEAKER_00: We pray that today's message has inspired and encouraged you in your walk with Christ.
SPEAKER_00: To stay connected with our church community, visit us online at Christchurchmemphis.org.
SPEAKER_00: We hope to see you this upcoming Sunday for worship as we seek to glorify God and make disciples of Jesus Christ among all peoples.