SPEAKER_01: You're listening to the podcast of Christ Methodist Church in Memphis, Tennessee.
SPEAKER_01: Join us for an insightful conversation where faith intersects with real life experiences and discover how God is at work in our world.
SPEAKER_01: We're here today with Mariah Eccle.
SPEAKER_01: She is our new director of contemporary worship.
SPEAKER_01: She began in 2026.
SPEAKER_01: Mariah, how are you today?
SPEAKER_00: I'm well, how are you?
SPEAKER_01: I'm doing good.
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for asking.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so as is tradition with the show, we like to start with a couple of icebreakers.
SPEAKER_01: These are just fun, get to know you.
SPEAKER_01: So my first question for you in a former life, a couple weeks ago.
SPEAKER_01: You were a barista.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was.
SPEAKER_01: So what was your favorite drink to make, and what is your favorite drink to drink?
SPEAKER_00: Mm.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, my favorite drink to make would be like a hot beverage, whether it be cafe latte or honestly, cortado is the most fun to pour.
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Anywhere between a cortado, cappuccino, or a cafe latte is my favorite because and hot, obviously, because it's fun to pour the art.
SPEAKER_00: My favorite drink, honestly, is like a single origin espresso.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Just by itself.
SPEAKER_00: Or like what I'm drinking now is just a cappuccino.
SPEAKER_01: Keep pulling mic a little closer.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Hello.
SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so next drink.
SPEAKER_01: Next question.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so next question.
SPEAKER_01: This is about drinks again.
SPEAKER_01: So the other day you came walking in with quite the accessory of beverage.
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I did.
SPEAKER_01: Walk us through your morning beverage routine.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's normally not that extensive.
SPEAKER_01: It was extensive that morning.
SPEAKER_00: That was a Wednesday.
SPEAKER_00: And I knew that Wednesday is my long day here at work.
SPEAKER_00: So we come in in the mornings and then all the meetings, all the things.
SPEAKER_00: But then I also was serving in youth that evening.
SPEAKER_00: So I knew like I'm here all day.
SPEAKER_00: So I had my Stanley, which I actually lost this Sunday.
SPEAKER_00: So it's probably down in Seabrook.
SPEAKER_00: I need to go get it.
SPEAKER_00: But anyway, I had my Stanley of water.
SPEAKER_00: Uh it's like a 32-ounce Stanley.
SPEAKER_00: So I try to drink like three to four of those a day.
SPEAKER_00: And so one's always electrolytes and the rest is just water.
SPEAKER_00: So I had that.
SPEAKER_00: And then I also had my cappuccino.
SPEAKER_00: And then I also had an ice latte.
SPEAKER_00: And I also had an Alani.
SPEAKER_01: So it's a lot of caffeine.
SPEAKER_00: It is.
SPEAKER_00: I also, for some reason, I was out late Tuesday night and I don't remember why.
SPEAKER_00: But I had something later that night.
SPEAKER_00: So I knew I'm like, I'm gonna get not as much sleep and I know tomorrow's a long day.
SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, I was that's not my normal routine.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: I would hope not because that's a lot of caffeine on the ring.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: No, my normal routine is like when I get up in the morning as I'm getting ready, I'm like drinking water or I'll sometimes do hot water with lemon.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Depending on the day.
SPEAKER_00: Like if I have a lot of, I mean, this is goes into vocal land, but if I have a lot of mucus, I'll do lemon to break that up.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And then I normally don't like this morning, I just got one drink and I just got a cappuccino on my way into work.
SPEAKER_00: So I try to have protein and water well before I have caffeine.
SPEAKER_00: That was just a very um unfortunate day that Ken caught me and he was like, How many drinks do you need?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Well, let's move into a little bit of vocalist music.
SPEAKER_01: First concert, best concert.
SPEAKER_00: That I sang in or that I went to?
SPEAKER_01: Attended.
SPEAKER_00: Attended.
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00: First concert ever.
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: Bruno Mars.
SPEAKER_01: That's fun.
SPEAKER_00: In Nashville.
SPEAKER_01: That's a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00: It was a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00: Like, I had a friend.
SPEAKER_00: She lives in Japan now.
SPEAKER_00: Her dad was in the Navy.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So she was in Millington at the time.
SPEAKER_00: And she wanted to go see this concert.
SPEAKER_00: Her dad had an extra ticket.
SPEAKER_00: And so he brought both of us to go.
SPEAKER_00: It was really great.
SPEAKER_00: Like we were in the nosebleeds, but it was still just a really cool experience, you know?
SPEAKER_00: Best concert.
SPEAKER_00: Oh goodness.
SPEAKER_00: This is difficult.
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to think of all the ones I've done.
SPEAKER_01: Is there one that it does it just doesn't stand out?
SPEAKER_01: Or let's get to the bottom of this.
SPEAKER_01: You were like, I could have done it better.
SPEAKER_00: Or what's the Oh my goodness, no, never.
SPEAKER_00: No.
SPEAKER_00: I think it's more, I'm like, because I like different concerts for different reasons depending on the genre.
SPEAKER_00: But honestly, like best concert as far as like feeling and like enjoyment was a metal concert I went to it in Alabama.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Dance Gavin Dance.
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: It was my first exposure to metal live.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And it's more poppy metal anyway.
SPEAKER_00: But I was like, this is fun.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I just avoided the dangerous section.
SPEAKER_01: There are some.
SPEAKER_01: There typically are.
SPEAKER_00: But that honestly was really probably the best concert I had been to, like as far as like the feeling in the room.
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to think, I guess, I mean, this is more formal concert, but in Nashville, we got to see the Nashville Orchestra.
SPEAKER_00: And that was probably one of my favorite as far as in the formal world.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: So okay, so last one, and then we'll get into the actual conversation.
SPEAKER_01: Do you have a favorite vocalist that inspires you?
SPEAKER_00: Mmm.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I I have a few favorite vocalists, but somebody that really inspires me as far as their versatility is Kelly Clarkson.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: She's kind of underrated, but her mixed voice is crazy, crazy good.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you don't win American Idol with a boring voice.
SPEAKER_01: That's for sure.
SPEAKER_00: That is true.
SPEAKER_00: So she's definitely one.
SPEAKER_00: Another one would be she's past now, but Jesse Norman.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Operatic singer, just incredible voice.
SPEAKER_00: And then I'm trying to think.
SPEAKER_00: There's like a few that are popping up in my mind, but just list them out.
SPEAKER_01: Let's hear them.
SPEAKER_01: No, this is great.
SPEAKER_01: Like I love it.
SPEAKER_01: Just list them out.
SPEAKER_00: Definitely Emma Neeson.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: She's a newer, like jazz, kind of contemporary jazz singer.
SPEAKER_00: Ariana Grande, I know.
SPEAKER_00: Like I don't I don't like her music, but I love her vocals.
SPEAKER_00: Like she's got a huge range.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, huge range, a lot of control.
SPEAKER_00: Whitney Houston will always just be.
SPEAKER_00: Can't go wrong, guys.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: She's amazing.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I'll stop there.
SPEAKER_00: No, that's great.
SPEAKER_01: It's a great list.
SPEAKER_01: It's a wonderful list.
SPEAKER_01: All stars.
SPEAKER_01: Well, I appreciate you indulging me in that.
SPEAKER_01: So now to get to the bottom of who you are, we're gonna figure this all out now.
SPEAKER_01: Where are you from?
SPEAKER_00: Originally from Nashville.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: I kind of tell people now that I'm like half from Nashville and half from Memphis.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Because my dad's job took us back and forth.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: We like every two years moved growing up.
SPEAKER_00: But then from what job was he?
SPEAKER_00: He's in electrical work.
SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of hard to explain what he does because he has his master's electrical license.
SPEAKER_00: I think I said that right.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: And but he also worked in like fire safety and stuff.
SPEAKER_00: And so he would work with electrical companies.
SPEAKER_00: But then he, if you've seen trucks around Memphis State Systems, he helped kind of build up that uh company.
SPEAKER_00: He was the vice president for a while.
SPEAKER_00: And then now he does, he works for Edwards Signaling.
SPEAKER_00: There's a bunch of branches of it, but he does like very large scale, like the island of Hawaii type safety um equipment, alarm systems, things like that for hurricanes and whatnot.
SPEAKER_00: And he also will travel and train people to sell them.
SPEAKER_00: So he's kind of in sales, kind of in it's a lot of when I explain it to him, I'm like, is that right?
SPEAKER_00: He's like, yeah, it's pretty close.
SPEAKER_00: So I'll go with it.
SPEAKER_01: So he's So that job moved around a lot as a kid.
SPEAKER_01: That's surprising, I guess.
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
SPEAKER_00: I yeah, I don't really remember why.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: I just knew we moved every two years growing up.
SPEAKER_00: And then we were in like the Millington area, Shelby Forest area, like the longest like high school on.
SPEAKER_01: So was it all like Tennessee, or did you talk about it?
SPEAKER_01: Okay, gotcha.
SPEAKER_00: It was literally back and forth from Nashville to Memphis.
SPEAKER_00: And then I went to undergrad at U of M.
SPEAKER_00: And so basically from my undergrad on, I've been here in Memphis.
SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so what was young Mariah into?
SPEAKER_01: Were you into sports or what was your kind of what was your thing as a kid?
SPEAKER_00: Always singing.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: I always loved music, loved art.
SPEAKER_01: Do you remember what drew you to music to begin with?
SPEAKER_00: The sound of music, actually.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So my mom sang in choir, like church choir.
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, we would go to choir rehearsals with her as little ones, you know.
SPEAKER_00: And so I always loved music.
SPEAKER_00: But then I remember my mom has obviously a better memory of this because she was more present than a three-year-old would be.
SPEAKER_02: She had a fully formed brain.
SPEAKER_00: But we had watched the sound of music, and the next day, like she was singing, you know, Doha Dear.
SPEAKER_00: And she noticed that I was singing with her, and she was like, She's matching pitch really well, like as a three-year-old, you know.
SPEAKER_00: And so she just noticed that I was kind of bent in that direction.
SPEAKER_00: So I've always loved music.
SPEAKER_00: I loved art.
SPEAKER_00: I loved to draw like creative things, but I also loved animals.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So we grew up when we were in the Millington area, we had horses and we never had cows, but we had like chickens and and all the things we had.
SPEAKER_01: So did you like I mean, this is a dumb question, but did you live on a farm?
SPEAKER_00: People would ask that.
SPEAKER_00: I would say no.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: We had like 11 acres.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: But we only at I mean we would have, I mean, the most we had was like 50 chickens.
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of chickens.
SPEAKER_01: So somebody who lives in the suburb, that's a lot of chickens.
SPEAKER_00: And then like two horses.
SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't like a full out farm, you know, but we had animals, you know, and stuff.
SPEAKER_00: And so I loved animals and I did sports, but I think like I enjoyed soccer.
SPEAKER_00: My sister was a really good volleyball player.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: And so I played volleyball a little bit, but I was more always music.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: So did you think you were gonna be a veterinarian or something when you were a kid?
SPEAKER_00: I thought my sister was gonna be good.
SPEAKER_00: I just loved animals.
SPEAKER_00: I told my mom I always wanted to at first it was like be a singer, and then high school on, I wanted to be a choir director.
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to teach like middle or high school choir and work with students.
SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
SPEAKER_01: So did you do choir?
SPEAKER_01: I'm assuming you did choir in middle school, high school, all that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00: I did.
SPEAKER_01: Did you have a teacher that particularly stood out to you that was very influential in that regard?
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: I had two.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So they will remain nameless.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: But one of them I was like, oh my goodness, he was so good at inspiring students.
SPEAKER_00: And I loved how he could teach vocal pedagogy to a group of students.
SPEAKER_01: Vocal pedagogy to explain what that is.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So vocal pedagogy is like how the voice works.
SPEAKER_00: And so normally in choir, you'll get very basic, like breathe from your diaphragm, oh, drop your jaw, all these things.
SPEAKER_00: But I have always had TMJ.
SPEAKER_00: So like a lot of tension in my jaw and such.
SPEAKER_00: And so dropping my jaw actually would hurt me.
SPEAKER_00: And so I would try to do what the choir director told me to do, but I'm like, I feel like it's hurting.
SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't think it should hurt, you know?
SPEAKER_00: And so vocal pedagogy is like you're able to look at the individual and say, okay, you actually need to adjust this way.
SPEAKER_00: And you get the same result, but it's healthy in the way that that's like a very simplistic explanation of what it is.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And so in choir, you often don't have time to do that because you're trying to get through all the music.
SPEAKER_00: And this teacher was so good at like making these little adjustments, which help drastically with the sound.
SPEAKER_00: And so I loved how he did that.
SPEAKER_00: And he was always so gentle.
SPEAKER_00: We got through the music.
SPEAKER_00: He had a really good, just an effective approach to how we learned music.
SPEAKER_00: Cause a lot of time, like you'll sing something wrong, sing something wrong.
SPEAKER_00: And a choir director is like, nope, let's fix it.
SPEAKER_00: They do it once, and then, okay, let's move on.
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, the track record says I just did this wrong three times, and then I get it right once.
SPEAKER_00: Do you think I'm actually gonna get it right next time, you know?
SPEAKER_00: So he would do simple things like, let's just loop that four times.
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
SPEAKER_00: And then we move move on, and we would never have to hit it again because it was in the brain.
SPEAKER_00: So I really loved the way he did that.
SPEAKER_01: And where was he your teacher?
SPEAKER_01: What around what age grade?
SPEAKER_00: He was high school.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, all high school.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, gotcha.
SPEAKER_00: All high school.
SPEAKER_00: And then I had another teacher who I love, like we are still friends to this day.
SPEAKER_00: Amazing singer.
SPEAKER_00: But I noticed like the gift of teaching wasn't fully there.
SPEAKER_00: Great singer, but the teaching aspect I noticed like it was so like not trying to dishonor, but that just wasn't a strong suit.
SPEAKER_00: And so I loved both of these teachers so much, but I realized I was like, oh, there's a difference between like both of them could sing really well, but one had more of a teaching heart and the other one did not.
SPEAKER_00: And so they both inspired me to be teachers because I was like, I want to be like teacher A and I want to inspire my teachers tea uh my students, like teacher B did, but in a way that teacher A did.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
SPEAKER_01: No, that's great.
SPEAKER_01: So I mean, did you I mean you you talked about wanting to be acquired?
SPEAKER_01: Like was it the education aspect of it that was so like that pulled you into it?
SPEAKER_01: Like that's what you really were drawn to is like educating others about vocal performance and music and things like that?
SPEAKER_00: I think so.
SPEAKER_00: Like I have always loved watching people succeed and whether that be whatever that looks like, you know.
SPEAKER_00: And so I always like helping people and then watching them do good and then go forth and you know, be good at whatever you're doing, you know?
SPEAKER_00: I've always loved that.
SPEAKER_00: And so the I think the vessel is music, and I loved how that there was a specific moment in high school.
SPEAKER_00: I did all West all the way up to like all state nationals and everything in high school.
SPEAKER_00: And there was a clinician, it was my, I want to say junior year, sophomore junior year.
SPEAKER_00: And there was a clinician who clearly was a believer because like half the music we sing in choral music is sacred, and whether we acknowledge it or not.
SPEAKER_00: And he there was a really beautiful moment where he was able to witness in a very subtle way.
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like he was being sneaky, but it was clear he was witnessing, but it was very, it was skillfully done to students that may have never had the gospel preached to them, you know.
SPEAKER_00: And I just remembered in that moment, like, wow, like music is beautiful and I love how it makes me feel.
SPEAKER_00: But like that was a really beautiful way to also like witness to these students who are from all these different schools who probably may have never been exposed to the gospel or you don't have that at home or whatever.
SPEAKER_00: And so that was a pivotal moment that I knew, like, okay, I love teaching people.
SPEAKER_00: I like seeing people get better at things, I love music.
SPEAKER_00: And I felt like God used that moment in my life to show me like all of those things are for this reason.
SPEAKER_00: You know.
SPEAKER_01: So it's very cool.
SPEAKER_01: Well, you you brought in the gospel aspect.
SPEAKER_01: So let's cover this real quick.
SPEAKER_01: So I mean, try it sounds like I'm diminishing it.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, what like did you grow up in church?
SPEAKER_01: How did you come to know God?
SPEAKER_01: Kind of what's the story there?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, grew up in church.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: My mom is like the just spiritual rock in our family.
SPEAKER_00: We grew up in the time of Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, you know, and my mom was we were part of the assemblies of God church for a while.
SPEAKER_00: And there was a moment, the specific church we were at, and I could be retelling this with not full accuracy, but my child brain remembers this as like there was decisions being made by leadership to kind of almost like amp up the spirit, you know, create more like emotional moments.
SPEAKER_00: And my mom's like, no, that's not really how it works, you know.
SPEAKER_00: And she's like, the spirit wants to move, the spirit will move, but we don't make that happen, you know?
SPEAKER_00: And so when that started happening a lot more, she made the decision with my dad, like they were gonna move to another church.
SPEAKER_00: So, but for the longest time we were in the Assemblies of God church, and my mom taught like missionettes and daisies and all of those things.
SPEAKER_00: Um, so we were very active in church.
SPEAKER_00: So I was homeschooled.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: My mom just incorporated the Bible, the gospel, all of those things into our daily like rhythm.
SPEAKER_01: So you were homeschooled the entire entire life or basically.
SPEAKER_00: I went to school for one semester in second grade, and that was it.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, got it.
SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
SPEAKER_00: No, don't be sorry.
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, basically homeschooled my entire life, and my mom just was really good about even our worldview studies.
SPEAKER_00: Like we had to, before we were allowed to watch certain movies growing up and everything, we had to finish our starting points.
SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you believe about the world?
SPEAKER_00: Like, or our worldview is how we view everything.
SPEAKER_00: And so, what do you believe?
SPEAKER_00: You know, why do you believe it?
SPEAKER_00: So my mom did a lot of the foundational, like just set the foundation for us.
SPEAKER_00: I would say I remember being seven or eight and coming home from church on a Wednesday and telling my dad, like, I believe Jesus is my savior and I want to invite him into my heart.
SPEAKER_00: And I remember having that conversation with him and praying with him.
SPEAKER_00: I remember another, I've told Pastor Paul this when I was talking with leadership about my testimony.
SPEAKER_00: I remember a moment it was like right before I was 18.
SPEAKER_00: And it was like, I know I'm saved, but I think that was the moment that I was like, I really am deciding that my mom's faith is now like my faith.
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm owning this.
SPEAKER_00: I I almost feel like, you know, in that in scripture where it talks about Jacob's, like, no, now this is the faith of my father's is now my own.
SPEAKER_00: I kind of felt like I had a moment like that where I know these things to be true, but now I know them for myself, not just because my mom always, you know, grew up telling me these things.
SPEAKER_00: So I had a moment like that.
SPEAKER_00: And so I don't have this like drastic, like, I was a drug addict.
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, while those testimonies are beautiful in and of themselves, I think I for the longest time struggled to feel like I even had a testimony because I was like, I don't know, I was a little church girl, you know, and everything.
SPEAKER_00: But my testimony is that the Lord has always shown me my need for him, and he continues to in different ways in different stages of my life.
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, that's kind of my thoughts.
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna, I'm gonna detour off of your story for a little bit to get more of your perspective.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: So I got to hear you lead worship recently, and you talked about the Assembly of God church that you were in, and they were trying to force the Holy Spirit into the service.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there's nuances and things to that, but one thing that I noticed in when you led was there was the Holy Spirit was invited.
SPEAKER_01: The Holy Spirit showed up.
SPEAKER_01: Walk me through kind of your philosophy of how you approach leading worship.
SPEAKER_01: I I mean it was just a very like I mean, I was choking back tears.
SPEAKER_01: I saw a lot of people with hands in the air.
SPEAKER_01: So the c the spirit was clearly there, at least for me.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Talk about that.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So a short answer before I go into like more in-depth is the human part of me or side of me says I don't know.
SPEAKER_00: Because and I think that I try my best to just be a vessel and let the Lord do what he wants to do.
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that requires me not singing as much.
SPEAKER_00: Or sometimes that I feel like, okay, he's telling me to sing more now or like exhort more now.
SPEAKER_00: But my philosophy, I think, well not I think I know, because I've it's ever forming.
SPEAKER_00: So my philosophy currently is that worship doesn't start with us.
SPEAKER_00: But when I speak with other worship leaders and we put all this pressure on ourselves to make these moments happen, scripture tells us clearly, like Jesus is actually worshiping for us, you know.
SPEAKER_00: And I think there's so much freedom in that.
SPEAKER_00: And everywhere in scripture, there's not a moment in scripture where a worshipful moment happens that the Lord didn't precede that.
SPEAKER_00: So our worship is actually a response to him, whether it be him revealing himself via the burning bush, or whether it be him saying something or him saving, you know, the Israelites from the Egyptians, whatever it looks like, there's always there's every account in scripture, God did something first.
SPEAKER_00: And our worship is a response.
SPEAKER_00: And so to me, when I like take the platform and I am leading, of course, I'm like, I've soaked that entire rehearsal prep, all of that in prayer.
SPEAKER_00: Like, Lord, like help me be sensitive to whatever you want.
SPEAKER_00: And if that means we derail what we practiced, then help me lead that.
SPEAKER_00: Help me make sure the team feels comfortable with that, you know.
SPEAKER_00: But also if it means we do everything as planned, then praise the Lord, we do everything as planned, you know.
SPEAKER_00: So I'm really like a firm believer of a call to worship.
SPEAKER_00: Whether that be a liturgist coming up and reading scripture and us hearing the word of the Lord and then us responding in music, or whether that be if they don't want to have a liturgist that week, then I think that responsibility falls on the worship leader to remind the congregation, like, hey, this is what what we're here for.
SPEAKER_00: This is, you know, just even saying something simple, you know, because in as a mom, I'm thinking, I know what a Sunday morning feels like.
SPEAKER_00: You're getting up, you're you don't know if you've had an argument with your spouse.
SPEAKER_00: You don't know if like it's been a hard week.
SPEAKER_00: I may not even want to go to church that day because I'm human and I'm exhausted, you know.
SPEAKER_00: The kids could have been screaming the whole way, you know.
SPEAKER_00: Like you could be in that stage where you're having to like drop your baby off and run.
SPEAKER_00: Because they're screaming for mama, you know, like, and so you're coming in and there's just like so much on you.
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, me, Mariah may not want to worship, just like, oh, let's just flip a switch and worship, you know.
SPEAKER_00: So I need that reminder.
SPEAKER_00: We're just like the Israelites, we forget so easily, you know?
SPEAKER_00: And so my philosophy is really it starts with God and we respond to Him.
SPEAKER_00: And I'm also very sensitive to what songs I choose.
SPEAKER_00: Are they vertical or are they horizontal?
SPEAKER_01: Can you elaborate?
SPEAKER_01: I know what that means, but can you elaborate what that means for the listener?
SPEAKER_00: So a vertical song would be a song that I'm singing directly to the Lord, or we are all singing directly to the Lord.
SPEAKER_00: That would be like, it'd be like, I worship you, oh Prince of Peace.
SPEAKER_00: It's like I worship you, Lord.
SPEAKER_00: I'm singing to you.
SPEAKER_00: A horizontal song would be like, Let our praise be your welcome.
SPEAKER_00: We're talking to each other.
SPEAKER_00: We're saying, Let our praise be your welcome, Lord.
SPEAKER_00: We're doing this together.
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm very both songs have a place in a worship set, but I'm thoughtful of not filling an entire set with all vertical or all horizontal.
SPEAKER_00: And so I don't really think there's a formula for like it has to be vertical, vertical, horizontal, whatever, you know.
SPEAKER_00: I think that completely depends on service flow, being in like communication with the pastors.
SPEAKER_00: What are they speaking on?
SPEAKER_00: Because your set is also serving your body and it's serving the leadership that you're working with.
SPEAKER_00: And so it all works together because the body of Christ should be unified.
SPEAKER_00: So that's hard to do.
SPEAKER_00: No, that's super helpful.
SPEAKER_01: And the the the th this is resonating because that there was a late Tim Keller sermon that I listened to where he talked about a lot of it was about the authenticity of worship.
SPEAKER_01: And one of the key points that he made was he said, You're fooling yourself if you don't believe the talented musicians on stage can't create or generate that feeling.
SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01: Like because there's certain chord change.
SPEAKER_01: And like I I'm not I don't know music theory, I don't but I am a music fan and I can tell these things.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Like when you take a step back, you can definitely see sometimes like, oh, the musicians are creating this moment.
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01: Talk about the authenticity of the moment and like I mean you did just kind of talk about that a little bit, but like barrow into that a little bit more about like the authenticity of that.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Uh it's that's good because it's true.
SPEAKER_00: Like a chord progression can people are like, oh, I got chills.
SPEAKER_00: Like music has power.
SPEAKER_00: It ha it can really, it it really evokes an emotional and a physical response, you know.
SPEAKER_01: So I mean, as a leader of worship, that's what you want people to experience.
SPEAKER_01: But you don't you don't want to create something false.
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
SPEAKER_00: I so how I have approached it and do approach it thus far is we learn the song as is and we play the song as is.
SPEAKER_00: If in the moment you can sense, like we sensed on Sunday, like the spirit's here.
SPEAKER_00: So there were moments I was like, hey, we're gonna, I just cue to the band via hand signal, like, because we don't have an MD right now, but I cued to the band, we're just gonna stay on that chord progression a little bit longer.
SPEAKER_00: And I just use that moment to exhort a moment, like, Lord, we're here to worship you, whatever the worship leader is sensing in that moment, right?
SPEAKER_00: And but I did not have them change the chord progression.
SPEAKER_00: So say it's a moment where you can really feel it rising, and let's just say the chord progression originally is one to five.
SPEAKER_00: What I might do, depending on melody or whatever, if it's like the room is really erupting, I would hand signal like maybe a one, two, three, four.
SPEAKER_00: So we can feel that rising happening because it should the chord progressions, in my opinion, or the music in general, should serve what's happening in the room.
SPEAKER_00: It shouldn't make it happen.
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like if what's happening in the room is genuine, then the music can follow.
SPEAKER_00: There's definitely an ebb and flow.
SPEAKER_00: It's like it's our job to lead, right?
SPEAKER_00: But it's also, I love there's a gentleman, John Thurlow.
SPEAKER_00: And he's a just longtime worship leader, very seasoned, and he puts out really good, just I think he does, what are they called when it's like an info on Instagram, when it's like a info, it's not a reel, but like you swipe through and there's a name for infographics.
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: And he does them uh daily, if not, I think weekly, but maybe daily.
SPEAKER_00: And they're always like just really great for worship leaders.
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things he put in there is spontaneous is great, but don't go there if you can't take the room with you.
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's heavy.
SPEAKER_00: Because I do spontaneous worship all the time, but sometimes that's just for me.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: You know, between me and God.
SPEAKER_00: And if the room is not going with you, then save that for when you're with Jesus alone, right?
SPEAKER_01: But the the thing that I'm hearing in all of this, there's a level of excellence required.
SPEAKER_01: And that's what I'm wondering.
SPEAKER_01: What's the balance of like, you know, I I think about like the people who've been on mission trips to Africa or something, and they've heard a guy who knows three chords on a busted guitar, but it's so worshipful versus the very skilled musicians that we have on stage.
SPEAKER_01: What's the balance there that you find?
SPEAKER_00: Heart posture for sure.
SPEAKER_00: Like we scripture tells us like do everything with excellence unto the Lord, right?
SPEAKER_00: I believe Psalm 33, 3, if I'm correct, um is a scripture about excellence.
SPEAKER_00: And that is our goal.
SPEAKER_00: But I think from experience, just dealing having like the dealt with multiple worship teams, I think that excellence needs to start in the heart.
SPEAKER_00: And then it can be an overflow into your craft as a vocalist or an instrumentalist.
SPEAKER_00: Because yeah, uh, ideally we want it to sound good, you know, we're human.
SPEAKER_00: We don't, you know, there's the part of us that wants to be entertained, you know?
SPEAKER_00: But the I think the reason we hear of these stories of people going to other countries and it's like the spirit was so there, it's the heart was in an excellent posture with the Lord.
SPEAKER_00: So my goal would be to steward that with whatever team I'm with.
SPEAKER_00: Like, how is your daily walk with the Lord?
SPEAKER_00: I can't monitor that.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: All I can do is pray for that person and encourage them and walk alongside them.
SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, they have to make that decision to walk with the Lord closely.
SPEAKER_00: And like any relationship, and we're human, like our we it ebbs and flows, you know, because that's that worldly struggle.
SPEAKER_00: But I would say there's a the balance is I think American culture focuses a lot more on the craft where elsewhere they focus a lot more on like where's your heart?
SPEAKER_00: And it's not that they focus, I think that's just the expectation.
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's just kind of like, well, you know.
SPEAKER_00: We're here because of the culture we're surrounded with, we're it's entertainment culture, you know.
SPEAKER_00: And so there's a church on every corner, and it's like, who's got the best worship team?
SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, and so and there's so many talented musicians.
SPEAKER_00: Like the team here at Christchurch is so wonderful.
SPEAKER_00: So I think what sets teams like that apart is their heart and where they're at with the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: That's excellent.
SPEAKER_01: Well, I appreciate you indulging me, and I hope the listener didn't just like, oh, Lance's going down the tangent.
SPEAKER_01: This was all really fascinating to me.
SPEAKER_01: So getting back to your story.
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
SPEAKER_01: So you knew music was a passion, you knew education was a passion.
SPEAKER_01: So you were homeschooled through high school.
SPEAKER_01: What happened after high school?
SPEAKER_01: Where did you what what was life after high school?
SPEAKER_00: Life after high school, I got married at 18.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So very young.
SPEAKER_00: And then I started my undergrad at the University of Memphis.
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: I started as a music education major.
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to teach choir.
SPEAKER_00: That's what I wanted to do.
SPEAKER_00: I halfway through, so literally at the midpoint, swapped to vocal performance.
SPEAKER_00: I really fought being a vocal performance major, any type of performance degree, because I just felt in my heart like I didn't want to pursue performance for like my name's sake.
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to pour into other people.
SPEAKER_00: But and I had a wonderful vocal coach in undergrad, and he only accepted a few undergrads in his studio every semester.
SPEAKER_00: He mainly worked with masters and doctorate students.
SPEAKER_00: And he was so sweet.
SPEAKER_00: There was one day, and he's like, We're in my lesson, and he goes, Hey, like, I'm not trying to like discourage you.
SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking he was about to like roast me on my vocals.
SPEAKER_00: And he goes, But uh music education is wonderful and all.
SPEAKER_00: He's like, But you could really make a go at this if you wanted to switch to performance.
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, That's so sweet, but no, you know, and it was a few months later the Lord spoke to me and was like, No, you need to switch to performance because I want you to work with people individually.
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
SPEAKER_00: And the performance track gave me more pedagogy courses where Ed there just was not enough room in an ed degree path.
SPEAKER_00: And so I made the switch and it prepped me to do what I ended up doing post graduation, which was I began to teach at a college downtown.
SPEAKER_00: And I was brought in because they knew I was a believer and that I was classically trained, but also did modern music.
SPEAKER_00: And they wanted somebody with like good foundational technique to work with their students.
SPEAKER_00: And so I back up to college in my undergrad.
SPEAKER_00: I had both my daughters in undergrad.
SPEAKER_00: I have Ellie, my oldest, she's seven now, and Evelyn, my youngest, she's five.
SPEAKER_00: So that was crazy too.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Because the Lord taught me a lot about perseverance.
SPEAKER_00: I can imagine of having two babies in a four-year degree path.
SPEAKER_00: I still finished on time, which was great, but I it was crazy that my professors were really so kind and gracious.
SPEAKER_00: They let me do because Ellie was due in October, they let me start my semester in the summer as much as I could.
SPEAKER_00: And I had to finish my finals before midterms.
SPEAKER_00: And then so they let me do my jury and everything early prior to having Ellie and everything.
SPEAKER_00: So they were very helpful.
SPEAKER_01: But well, let's go down that part of your story because I feel like that's so non-traditional, especially today.
SPEAKER_01: Married at 18.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Tell me about that.
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's hard to imagine.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: It's interesting because you know, part of my story is I'm no longer married.
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
SPEAKER_01: So how did you meet this child?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So I met my now ex-husband actually via both of our sisters.
SPEAKER_00: They played volleyball together.
SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: And his sister had connected me and him.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: And so Young in high school.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: He was already graduated.
SPEAKER_00: He's three years older than me.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: And then I was in my senior year.
SPEAKER_00: And so he took me out on a date.
SPEAKER_00: It was my first date ever.
SPEAKER_00: I'd never had a boyfriend.
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
SPEAKER_00: And I was never like the very interested in dating type.
SPEAKER_00: I was very career driven in my mind.
SPEAKER_00: I thought I was gonna do undergrad, master's, doctorate, move to New York.
SPEAKER_00: I had all these that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00: But anyway, and so we went on a date, hit it off.
SPEAKER_00: I thought he was way too country.
SPEAKER_00: Like, I was like, I'm way too city for him.
SPEAKER_01: Like he's not gonna A little bit rock and roll, a little bit, yeah.
SPEAKER_01: I've heard that one.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: So like there's a song about that or something.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: But we hit it off.
SPEAKER_00: He asked me on second day, and it progressed pretty quickly because that was like September, or just after September, because I had just turned 18.
SPEAKER_00: And we got married the following July.
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
SPEAKER_01: And so it was that just a like a family norm, or like where did that kind of play into all of this?
SPEAKER_00: Like what it honestly wasn't.
SPEAKER_00: I was the first of my siblings.
SPEAKER_00: I have three siblings.
SPEAKER_00: I was the first to get married.
SPEAKER_00: I I'm gonna be very honest.
SPEAKER_00: I don't really know where my head was at the time.
SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
SPEAKER_00: I definitely was, you know, in love.
SPEAKER_00: And he was he was my best friend.
SPEAKER_00: And I know he wanted my mom told me it was so funny.
SPEAKER_00: She was like, she calls me Katie.
SPEAKER_00: My middle name's Kay.
SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Katie, he's looking for a wife, you know, like while we were dating.
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, ah, you know.
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, I know, and he was.
SPEAKER_00: He was looking for a wife, and so we got married.
SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, in that time of dating, everything seemed right.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_01: Everything made sense, and it felt like this is where you were being pulled to.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: And so then y'all get married and you're married in college, starting college.
SPEAKER_00: Starting college.
SPEAKER_01: How is that?
SPEAKER_00: Weird.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_00: It was really weird.
SPEAKER_00: Like I it was kind of polarizing, to be honest, because I go in and secular university and Christian, and then you're around a lot of cultural Christians, but are now exposed to college and they're making their decisions, you know, and I'm married and I live 45 minutes away, so I have a 45-minute commute in and out, you know.
SPEAKER_00: And so it was very different.
SPEAKER_00: Like I I felt like it's always set me in a room, I feel like, where I'm too young in the married circle.
SPEAKER_00: So I don't really like I didn't feel like I fit in with the ladies that like I was that were married, but I didn't fit in with people my age because I'm not out partying.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I'm going home to do homework and see my husband, you know?
SPEAKER_00: So it was just, it was very different.
SPEAKER_01: Was that hard?
SPEAKER_00: It was, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm also, I would call myself like an extroverted introvert.
SPEAKER_00: Like I open up in one-on-one situations and I can open up in group situations as well, but I'm gonna go need to lay down afterwards because it drains me.
SPEAKER_00: But I I could go out to eat by myself.
SPEAKER_00: I could go, like I love being by myself.
SPEAKER_00: And even this morning, just like going and sitting and having coffee, like doing nothing.
SPEAKER_00: I just enjoy being outside and alone.
SPEAKER_00: So the that part didn't like not having like groups of friends like that didn't bother me.
SPEAKER_00: It was more it just it looking back now, I'm like, man, like my every ever since the start of college, it's just been so different for me.
SPEAKER_00: And then I had Ellie.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So in my so that would have been October before we get to that, do you think No, you're good.
SPEAKER_01: Do you think that affected your relationship with him because of that isolation, that kind of s separation?
SPEAKER_01: Do you think that affected the relationship early on?
SPEAKER_01: I think I mean I know you mentioned he was your best friend.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: But like did I mean, did you see or in retrospect, can you feel the difference or see anything maybe now?
SPEAKER_00: I think now that you like ask that, I think in some ways, yes.
SPEAKER_00: Because I think also you're 18 and you're still figuring yourself out.
SPEAKER_00: Like your brain's not even fully formed, you know.
SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
SPEAKER_00: And so I think like looking back now, I just was still trying to even figure out who I was within the like boundaries of now being married.
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, we both were kids.
SPEAKER_00: He was 21, I was 18.
SPEAKER_00: And taking on not just being married, but okay, now we need to find a house.
SPEAKER_00: And okay, now we need, you know, I don't have a job.
SPEAKER_00: He was finishing up, he's an electrician, he was finishing up school, and so he was doing independent route instead of union.
SPEAKER_00: And so he at least was able to work and kind of get paid while doing school, but it was still apprentice, you know.
SPEAKER_00: And so we're just figuring that out, and I'm in college, praise the Lord.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I was on a full ride.
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
SPEAKER_00: So like the Lord has always taken care of my schooling, which is such a blessing.
SPEAKER_00: I know that's not everybody's story.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: But it was tight, obviously.
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
SPEAKER_00: You know, so we're I would say learning ourselves, but then we were learning each other.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And then we did not we were pretty isolated, both of us, as far as like I was leading worship at the time, but the churches that we were at just did not have as much as many resources.
SPEAKER_00: So we did not have like even marriage counseling or things like that, or like even just a a seasoned couple to come alongside us.
SPEAKER_00: And so there were a lot of holes that the enemy could really just like poke at, you know, and get into.
SPEAKER_00: And so it was definitely I think all of those elements really set us up for lack of survival, if you will.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: So I mean, thinking so how long were you within the Ross?
SPEAKER_00: We were married for seven years.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: So seven years, that's four years of undergrad.
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01: Three I mean, by the time you made it through the stress of undergrad having a child while in undergrad, the relationship had to be in a hard place by that point.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: And so then you have a second kid after that.
SPEAKER_00: Then we had a third, we lost him afterwards as well.
SPEAKER_01: And I'm guessing that didn't do any favors to the relationship either by that point.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: I feel like it opened the door to like everything that was not okay, that amount of grief.
SPEAKER_00: Because I had had two completely healthy pregnancies.
SPEAKER_00: So that was just like crazy not expected, which I know like miscarriage is a very common thing for women now, but in my mind it wasn't even a possibility because I'd had two completely, you know, healthy, natural pregnancies.
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So when we lost Aaron, our son, it was just like it opened the door to like everything that wasn't okay.
SPEAKER_00: It was like all at once.
SPEAKER_01: So it had just been kind of building.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: And that was the dam that broke everything.
SPEAKER_01: Sorry to hear that.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: So that relationship ended after seven years.
SPEAKER_01: Talk about that period afterwards.
SPEAKER_01: What was that like?
SPEAKER_00: That I would love to call them my like dark days.
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_00: So going back into towards the end of the marriage, something that we really struggled with was I have always struggled with work-life balance.
SPEAKER_00: I get really invested with my job.
SPEAKER_00: And that is something the Lord really has worked, like just revealed to me, is that like so many areas that I it I meant it for good, but I was just choosing work over family.
SPEAKER_00: And so when we were married, one of the things like I always held like a worship leader position.
SPEAKER_00: And he really struggled with kind of feeling like Mr.
SPEAKER_00: Mom, like always taking care of the kids.
SPEAKER_00: And and that was really hard for like a newborn and toddler.
SPEAKER_00: Like that's hard.
SPEAKER_00: And like you really needed to be.
SPEAKER_01: And all your contemporaries were out having fun living their life in a lot of ways.
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And so, like, I really feel for him in that, like, man, like I really failed in that area, you know, and I was thought I was doing a good thing.
SPEAKER_00: And I I actually really resonated with, I forget his name, but on Sunday he was talking about how he ran from the Lord by taking so many things in the church on.
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm like, honestly, that's what I was doing, and I had no idea, right?
SPEAKER_00: Like it was my like responsibility was at home and to make sure that was okay first and it wasn't.
SPEAKER_00: And so at one point towards the end of our marriage, I stepped out of leadership so I could be home.
SPEAKER_00: And so, and the idea was that we would go to church together and all of that.
SPEAKER_00: But then it was a fight to just get him to go to church.
SPEAKER_00: And so that was very difficult.
SPEAKER_00: So then we go through the divorce.
SPEAKER_00: And at this point, I'm not playing anywhere, I'm not leading anywhere.
SPEAKER_00: And then also just like the just the grief of the divorce.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, what did that you you're not playing anywhere?
SPEAKER_01: What did that do to your your soul's confidence, I guess?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Like, am I not qualified to leave?
SPEAKER_01: Well, like, what was the thought process there?
SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, am I not qualified?
SPEAKER_00: Okay, Lord, like, am I never gonna do this again?
SPEAKER_00: You know?
SPEAKER_00: And it really, I look back now, I'm like, that was so painful, but so beautiful at the same time because the Lord really used that to strip my identity of like, I am a worship leader.
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like, no, I can lead worship if that's what the Lord calls me to do.
SPEAKER_00: But He's really stripped that from me where I don't I really at that point in time felt like I lost who I was.
SPEAKER_00: Like I was like, I'm not, I'm not, you know, like I didn't know who I was.
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know, like, if I don't lead worship, what am I?
SPEAKER_00: You know?
SPEAKER_01: And Because I mean you're what, 23?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 23.
SPEAKER_01: It's like I mean, you're still figuring yourself out for a lot of people.
SPEAKER_01: Like I mean, that's that's a huge thing to have all of that stripped away.
SPEAKER_01: But uh I mean, I'm I'm gonna ask the question, but you're getting there.
SPEAKER_01: Like, like, how does how does God rebuild that for you?
SPEAKER_01: How does God rebuild your identity amid all of this?
SPEAKER_00: It I it was beautiful.
SPEAKER_00: It took time because it took really a season of me laying low as far as just really uncomfortably sitting with the Lord and questioning so many things like about myself and about him and his character.
SPEAKER_00: I really resonate and resonated at that time with a lot of David's Psalms where he's crying out to the Lord, like, how long, Lord?
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, and there were some times where I literally God, I'm mad at you.
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm so mad at you.
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, like I've said sorry this many times.
SPEAKER_00: You know?
SPEAKER_00: And so it's like I that I really tarried with the Lord and all of that.
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, how much did all this cause you, let's just be real here, to doubt God?
SPEAKER_01: Oh, a lot.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you thought you had a relationship that he had provided.
SPEAKER_01: You thought you had an identity that he had provided, and it's all stripped away.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Like, what does that do for your perspective of him?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, i I doubted if he was real.
SPEAKER_00: I doubted if my salvation was real.
SPEAKER_00: I doubted, like, I even was like, can you lose your salvation?
SPEAKER_00: I started going and down like all all of these, like reading through scripture, like, okay, Lord, like if you're real, you know, I I felt almost like Gideon.
SPEAKER_00: Like, if you're real, give me a sign.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, give me another sign.
SPEAKER_00: I need just one more, you know?
SPEAKER_00: Like, I I doubted so much.
SPEAKER_00: Like, can't did I ever have salvation?
SPEAKER_00: Was am I gonna like meet him face to face one day and he's gonna say, Depart from me, I never knew you.
SPEAKER_00: Like I was going really some dark places of like, you know, and then there was like the questioning of, okay, well, if I'm not saved, should I even like try to live like a believer, you know?
SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, is this all a fake thing?
SPEAKER_00: You know, and so I mean, I but I came to the conclusion of like, no, I know he's real.
SPEAKER_00: I've experienced him and I had so many encounters with him that were so much they were so true, they weren't just feelings, you know, that I hit the point I was like, okay, Lord, I'm not so sure of my salvation, but like even if I'm not saved, I still wanna live for you.
SPEAKER_00: And I I know that sounds like maybe that's not theologically correct.
SPEAKER_00: You know, and that's kind of where I landed.
SPEAKER_00: And I will say, like my fiance, Brandon, now the Lord really brought us together.
SPEAKER_00: And it was he and I love him, obviously, hopefully.
SPEAKER_00: You know, we're getting rid of it.
SPEAKER_00: But the Lord really used him in my life as a friend in that season to speak life, like the amount of times he's just prayed over me or read scripture to me when he knows that like I was in some pretty depressed dark spaces, and he used him to show me God's love.
SPEAKER_00: And y Brandon's so sensitive to the Lord.
SPEAKER_00: Like we were at this church because Brandon's a musician as well, and Brandon was playing it, it was a more prophetic service, and this gentleman came up to me, he's like, You smell good to the Lord.
SPEAKER_00: And we were like, All right then, you know, but I knew what he was talking about.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I may not have used those words, but I knew it was but I knew what he was talking about because I was like, Yeah, like Brandon is very close with the Lord and you can sense that about him.
SPEAKER_01: And so this relationship with Brandon was based out of friendship.
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
SPEAKER_01: Started with friendship and eventually moved into romantic, yes.
SPEAKER_00: He and I met because during okay, go back to the dark times when I was working through all of that, the Lord brought some opportunities to play kind of back line in different churches.
SPEAKER_00: So I was playing keys, MDing for some churches, nothing ever on the front line.
SPEAKER_00: And that was hard, man.
SPEAKER_00: Step back to step back and be in the background.
SPEAKER_00: Cause I and then also I'm like, I was at the time was so insecure, and there are times I still am, but like so insecure as an instrumentalist because I was like, I'm not, I'm not an instrumentalist.
SPEAKER_00: Like keys is my second instrument, like I'm a singer, you know, and and so I really had to grow and learn like tones and playing parts and like memorizing and all of those different things in a different way.
SPEAKER_00: But God used that to prep me for so many of the spots where I am now because he gave me two years of not leading from a microphone, but leading from the back via assisting the worship leader, you know.
SPEAKER_00: And he taught me communication with bands from a back line perspective.
SPEAKER_00: He taught me like honestly, how uh instrumentalist can often feel like a commodity to a worship leader.
SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, come and do the thing for me, you know, and like it does not feel good, you know.
SPEAKER_00: He t also taught me just how important it is that even your back line is because there's a lot of emphasis at churches for the front line to be very spiritually sound, but a lot of churches will just kind of let anybody play in the background.
SPEAKER_00: And I realized that when I started playing, and I was like, that's problematic.
SPEAKER_00: We should talk, we should talk more about that, you know.
SPEAKER_00: We should have the same standard for both front and back line.
SPEAKER_00: And so he gave me a broader perspective in that season of not leading.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: While also working on my heart and quite honestly, my pride of feeling like I should be up front leading.
SPEAKER_00: Cause I'm like, well, Lord, that's what you gifted me for, right?
SPEAKER_00: So all of that to say that's how I met Brandon originally was he and I were both on rotation at a church, acquaintance, turned friend, and then he asked me to date him a little about two years ago now.
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
SPEAKER_00: And so yeah.
SPEAKER_01: That's exciting.
SPEAKER_01: And now you're engaged.
SPEAKER_00: Now we're engaged.
SPEAKER_00: That's exciting.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm very happy for you.
SPEAKER_01: So to fast forward just a little bit.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: You're at Christ Methodist now.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_01: What excites you the most about working here now?
SPEAKER_00: People have asked me that, and I'm like, everything.
SPEAKER_00: Um, I there's like I I kind of see it in like different files, like or different segments.
SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited to work with such a sweet team.
SPEAKER_00: It's a really sweet team that they have in the contemporary service, and they're really very fortunate to have a lot of wonderfully gifted musicians there as well.
SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited to get to know them more.
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to just build something great.
SPEAKER_00: And we were talking about musical excellence.
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm grateful that I don't have to go out and seek that, you know.
SPEAKER_00: So really fortunate in that way.
SPEAKER_00: But I'm excited to with them and with the congregation, usher in.
SPEAKER_00: I was I wouldn't say usher in, but provide more space for like what Sunday was like, where if the spirit wanted to come and move, he is freely like there's freedom there.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So I'm really excited because ultimately when I lead worship, and I had talked to Pastor Paul about this, and he kind of gave me the words for it because I was like, I have no idea what I'm trying to say.
SPEAKER_00: I just can feel like there are times I will lead with other teams, and it was an amazing set.
SPEAKER_00: And I'll leave stage and I'm like, I have no idea why I want to go cry right now.
SPEAKER_00: Like my spirit feels so grieved, and I don't know why.
SPEAKER_00: And I was telling Pastor Paul this one day, and I was like, it's like, it's like we missed it.
SPEAKER_00: And I I don't know how to explain, like, we missed it.
SPEAKER_00: And he was like, I think like the words you're trying to say is like you can't, you're so sensitive to like the heart of the Lord and the spirit in those moments that you know where those moments are supposed to go.
SPEAKER_00: But when a team kind of boxes themselves into, well, this is what we rehearsed, you know, and then they do it and it's amazing.
SPEAKER_00: Every note was played right, everything was done, and but we leave, and I'm like, but it's not that the Lord wasn't honored, maybe that's too harsh of a statement.
SPEAKER_00: But like we were more worried about putting on a good production than we were about listening and being sensitive to the Lord.
SPEAKER_00: And therefore, maybe there were people in the room who weren't as who who didn't encounter him like they could have.
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm really excited to bring that moments like that in.
SPEAKER_00: Cause it's not that I'm saying every Sunday, I'm gonna make this happen.
SPEAKER_00: Like it's not me, you know?
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, those those are that's some of the things I'm excited about.
SPEAKER_00: The staff here are so wonderful.
SPEAKER_00: I've been serving them coffee for a while.
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say that's how I met you.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So I've been praying for them uh since I met them via serving them coffee.
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm just excited to get to know everybody in this aspect and get to know the congregation.
SPEAKER_00: And yeah.
SPEAKER_01: That's exciting.
SPEAKER_01: Well, Mariah, on behalf of the congregation, we're excited to have you.
SPEAKER_01: We can't wait to see everything that you're gonna do and worship with you every Sunday.
SPEAKER_01: So we're excited and grateful for you, grateful you're here.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the podcast for Christ Methodist Church in Memphis, Tennessee.
SPEAKER_01: We pray that today's message has inspired and encouraged you in your walk with Christ to stay connected with our church community.
SPEAKER_01: Visit us online at Christchurch Memphis.org.
SPEAKER_01: We hope to see you this upcoming Sunday for worship as we seek to glorify God and make disciples of Jesus Christ among all peoples.