Pastor Paul Addresses His Recent GMC Update

After being nominated for the role of Bishop in the Global Methodist Church, Pastor Paul shares the heart behind his decision to accept the nomination and what it means for Christ Methodist Church in this unfolding season.

To learn more about the General Gathering in late summer, go HERE. 

To learn more about what a bishop is and does in the Global Methodist Church, go HERE (begins on pg. 176). 

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Transcript

Introduction to the Interview

SPEAKER_02 0:02

You're listening to the podcast of Christ Methodist Church in Memphis, Tennessee. Join us for an insightful conversation where faith intersects with real life experiences and discover how God is at work in our world. We're here today with senior pastor Paul Lawler. He recently made some announcements from the stage regarding the Global Methodist Church and his involvement. We're going to catch up and go through that as well. But Paul, how are you today? Doing super Lance. It's always good to be with you. I appreciate you. Okay, so for someone who may have heard bits and pieces from your recent announcement, can you kind of walk us through what's happening right now? Set it up for us.

The Nomination Journey

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Sure. So I'm going to give a briefer version than what I gave on Sunday morning. So in the Global Methodist Church, nobody runs for bishop. Bishops are called forth by the body. And so I was contacted by the Mid-South Conference back in November, made up of Kentucky, Middle, and Eastern Tennessee, that I was their nominee for the episcopacy, and that I was asked to pray and consider their nomination. I prayed, including some fasting, for about two weeks and then responded that with honored, but I'm not going to be available for the episcopacy. And then I was contacted by the South Carolina Conference in February, that I was their nominee, and they would like to interview me. And because I was being considered, I prayed about that, also incorporated fasting, and then reached back out to them and shared that I am honored, but the answer is no at this time. And then my own, our own conference, the Mississippi-West Tennessee conference, when I met with them in person, wanted to nominate me to serve as an episcopal candidate. And I had shared with them that I'd already said no twice, and I'm honored that you would express this, but my answer is no. Then I serve on the Connectional Council in the Global Methodist Church and also as the vice chair of Kingdom Advancement. Kingdom Advancement was having meetings in Florida a little more than a week ago, tied in with mobilizing Global Methodist Church pastors and leaders into church planning, disciple making. And in our meetings, Dr. Steve Cordle, who is over the River Network, approached me and shared that he was interested in my name being on the ballot for the episcopacy. I shared with him I'd already said no three times, and that ended up catalyzing prayer that I engaged in. And last I sense I sense God speaking to me, not audibly, but just with this sense of peace that I needed to let go and trust him that he may be speaking through his body and that I needed to pay attention to that. And so I have allowed my name to be submitted as a candidate for the episcopacy in the Global Methodist Church.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

We'll get more into what that actually means in a little bit, but I want to go through your story for a minute. So the first question that I really have regarding that is you said no three times, your fourth time. What changed? What was in that moment? What was in your spirit that changed? What did God reveal?

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Yeah. First of all, I appreciate the question. I actually put in writing to a few people, leaders in our church, I don't know why I did not feel clear in November, in February, and in that meeting leading up to the meeting with our own delegation in March. I I really don't have an answer. I know God's timing sometimes it does not fit our own. And all I know is that in that hotel meeting room in Orlando, I had the peace of God that passes understanding. And again, while I did not hear an audible voice just in my own heart that I knew the Lord was speaking to my heart to release control and trust that He may be leading. And I say may because there's there's there's no guarantee that I God is calling me to the episcopacy. I only know that I was obedient and taking this first step.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Walk us through that prayer. Like can you kind of give us some idea of what was your prayer? What was your thought through that?

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Well I just expressed to the Lord that I Lord, I surrender. I've prayed that prayer many times. I actually prayed that prayer daily, but the distinction was that I was praying it honed in around one specific topic. Steve Cordle had just spoken to me and I sat down and as the meeting began, and I, as the meeting's ongoing, I'm actually in prayer, and the peace of God just came. And I also had a sense, I hope nobody's looking at me right now because there were tears coming down my cheeks simply because the presence of God was bearing witness. I I sensed this is a little deep and may be a little deep for a podcast, but I the peace with the peace came the sense of release. And the release was more around letting go of being in control. And I think what God was getting at is that people in the body were giving voice that they wanted to submit me as a someone who s would st stand for possible election, but I was resisting what Jesus may be expect expressing through his body.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

And that's what I wanted to hear your heart about wrestling with that tension. I mean, the tension between your your care for this church specifically, Christ Methodist, and the global Methodist Church at large. Can you kind of talk through that tension that you felt?

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Aaron Powell Yeah. Lance that is a very perceptive question. And I as I'm looking back already, I the way you worded that nails something very dear to my own heart. I love the local church, and more particularly, I love the people of Christ Methodist Church Memphis deeply. And I feel a strong loyalty by virtue of God calling Missy and I to Memphis, and it it's strong. And so I I have in looking back, I have a holy hunch that my holding on was because of that sense, is because of that sense of loyalty. I love our staff, I love our church, I love our leaders, I love what God's doing here, and it matters deeply to me. It it burns in my soul. And so I when when conferences began expressing we would like to call you forth, I I will be honest and say I'm holding on tight to my loyalty where my soul or my soul values. So yes, there that tension has been real, but I didn't recognize it until that Sunday morning when I sense God's peace and release to allow my name to be submitted.

Missy's Support and Encouragement

SPEAKER_02 8:19

That's powerful. So you mentioned to the staff that you talked to Missy after this was over. Can you kind of share what was her encouragement? What it how was her perception of this?

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Well, I I need to give an anecdote about Missy that kind of tease up your good question. First of all, Missy will look at me every few years and say something like this. Just remember, if I weren't married to you, I would be on the mission field. And now this is her creative way. We both grew up in families where we enjoy teasing one another and laughter. This is her creative way of reminding me, Paul, however God leads, you need to know all in. Doesn't mean that it's easy. That's not, we're not being Pollyanna here. Following Jesus has it Jesus, nowhere in scripture did Jesus say, follow me and it will be easy. He said, take up your cross. And so there are seasons of denial. There are seasons in following Jesus that are highly counterintuitive, high levels of misunderstanding, uh even high levels of some elements of confusion when the Lord, when the Lord leads. His kingdom's very organic. That's why he uses so many organic illustrations. So in honoring your good question, Missy recognizes those things. And so she was the first person that I called, and I shared with her what was happening. I was crying. I don't cry easily. I know some people may differ with that, but I shared with her, honey, something, something's happening in my spirit that I cannot intellectually and rationally deny. And I'm I'm really sensing God's leading in this way. And her exact words is, honey, I'm I'm in. And whatever, however God leads, I'm in. So if you'll allow me, this is a symptom of what my father, my late father, would say to me repeatedly, which is son, you outran the kick coverage when you married Missy. So that is true.

Understanding the Role of a Bishop

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Aaron Ross Powell Yeah. That's beautiful. I think one thing that we may I don't want to overlook is what does it practically speaking mean to be nominated in this way? What does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Aaron Ross Powell Yeah. So in the as I mentioned earlier, in the global Methodist Church, no one runs for bishop, and I thank God for that.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Aaron Powell And maybe we need to elaborate what is a bishop?

The Weight of Multiple Nominations

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Aaron Ross Powell Yeah. So a bishop in the global Methodist Church, and let me before I share that, let me share this. A lot of most of the people in the Global Methodist Church came out of the United Methodist Church. And in that iteration, people literally had campaigns and ran for the office. You're not allowed to do that, thank God, in the Global Methodist Church. The body has to call you forth because the body of Christ sees and senses gifts and graces in you to lead out of a spiritual authority, not a positional authority. In other words, the gifts and graces God has placed in you. Now, I won't read everything that a bishop does. I'm going to read one paragraph, paragraph 602, out of the Book of Doctrines and Disciplines, because it gives a precise answer. So in this paragraph, bishops are elected from among those within the order of elders and set apart for a ministry of visionary servant leadership, general oversight, and supervision and support of the church in its mission. As followers of Jesus Christ, bishops are charged with guarding the faith, order, liturgy, doctrine, and discipline of the church. The basis of such discipleship of leadership lies in a life characterized by personal integrity, rigorous discipleship, and the anointing and empowerment of the Holy Spirit. Bishops shall be persons of genuine faith and upstanding moral character. They should possess the gift of encouragement, a vital and renewing spirit, and possess a commitment to the vision of the church adopted by the General Conference. Candidates for the episcopacy should also have a strong record of effectiveness in leading the church in evangelism, discipleship, and mission. Bishops shall be unwaveringly committed to uphold the doctrines and polity of our church and able to communicate the historic Christian faith from a Wesleyan perspective. Now that was a little bit of a long answer. Our Book of Doctrines and Disciplines has more to say about the responsibilities of bishops, but that paragraph captures the primary essence of the role.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

So I I have more questions about the bishop position, but after hearing that definition, you were asked not once, not twice, not three times, four times, to take a role that is defined by that. What it how how does that make your spirit feel?

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Well, I I want to that's uh again, Lance, you ask really good questions. It always feels good to be affirmed and perhaps that others may see the way God has wired you or gifted you and maybe called you. But I also want to be very clear that I, in my heart and spirit, I'm not pining for anything. I am deeply thankful to serve as the senior pastor of Christ Church Memphis. It's an a deep honor. And I'm I'm not reaching for something. And so I ultimately the way it makes me feel is I'm in his hands. I'm in God's hands. Missy and I are in the hands of the Lord, and we trust that he is directing our steps. And I I would also submit, that's where we all want to be. Is the first step with Jesus is always surrender. And you I'm aware, Romans 12, 1 and 2, his his will is good, pleasing, and perfect. You cannot improve on it. And that's true for all of us. And so my response is that it's good to rest in his hands.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

This is a very humanist question, but is there a sense how did you guard yourself against the sense of flattery after being asked that so many times? I mean, there has to be a part of you that wondered, well, maybe if I've been asked this as many times, I can do this. It's a great question.

Avoiding the Trap of Flattery

Differences in Episcopal Roles

SPEAKER_01 15:10

So I I have to I'm I'm gonna have to go back to my life in my 30s, okay? And and this is I I remember I was a young pastor, I was church planting, and I made a lot of mistakes. And in in those mistakes, there there were people that I love because my leadership style was just charge the hill. And sometimes I would charge the hill so fast I wouldn't take people with me, and people got hurt. And I I learned some painful lessons in that. And in those painful lessons, a part of what God was developing in me was understanding the distinction between the fear of men and the fear of God, and being liberated not to be governed by what people think and to really live into the gift of honoring the Lord first. The scripture says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life. And I'm I'm human. I am not saying that if someone says something nice, yes, it could build up my ego. And but I've been this is going to be language that I hope I don't confuse the limp the listener. I have been chastened by the Lord, tempered and battered in with a motive of love. Uh He chastens those whom he loves. That I in my 30s I really began dying to being driven by what people say. And and God used that that season, really, I say season, it was probably seven or eight years of really setting me free from that and tuning my heart more and the to to just to uh as a and abiding in him and reverencing him. And Lance in that it also can it it it deepens your dependence upon God because you know how weak you are. And for a believer weakness is really your greatest strength because weakness keeps you dependent. And I I'm a dependent person, I'm a dependent man on the Lord. So I your question is a very good question. I think I think every pastor gets to learn that because you have people walk out the door on Sunday, great job, Pastor, thank you, Pastor. And if you let that feed your flesh, that's gonna take you to dangerous places. If you keep it in perspective, that if somebody's heart was spoken to, you don't have the power to change a heart. You know that came from the Lord and you keep reverencing him and depending upon him because that's the fruitfulness of your life that can only come from abiding in Jesus. Apart from him, we can do nothing as Jesus taught us.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Aaron Powell That's great. I appreciate that. And to go back to the logistics of bishops and things like that, can you explain a little bit about the difference this role is for a bishop in the GMC versus the United Methodist Church?

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Aaron Powell Another great question. First of all, in our previous wine skin in the United Methodist Church, bishops carried a tremendous amount of administrative responsibility. They carried all the responsibility ultimately for appointments in conjunction with their cabinets. They carry tremendous administrative responsibilities, not only in their conference, but also in the greater church. And bishops spend a lot of timing back and forth in meetings that are really around just administration. In the Global Methodist Church, bishops, while they carry some temporal responsibilities, it is not administrative. It is more visionary, and there are some administrative tasks in cooperation with conference superintendents, and conference superintendents and cabinets do work to help align appointments. Bishops ultimately have to bless that in the appointive process, but it's not as intensive as before so that, or in the as intensive as it was in the previous wineskin, so that bishops are freed up to cast vision, equip the church, equip conferences, empower movement in evangelism, mission, mercy ministry, reaching unreached people groups, fulfilling the mission of the church of making disciples of Jesus Christ and spreading scriptural holiness across the globe. And so when they convene annual conferences in this iteration, yes, there's an episcopal address just there as there was in the United Methodist Church, but the way we've structured annual conferences around the world is that there's much more capacity now for breakouts, for equipping the church in her primary mission of evangelism, discipleship, and expression of the kingdom. So this is a new day, it's an exciting day, and it's a day that aligns more fervently with classical Wesleyan Christianity, which the world desperately needs, and that may not be our topic right now, but that's a topic for another time. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

The Process for Episcopal Candidates

SPEAKER_02 21:14

That's helpful. So can you help people understand what it means to be submitted for consideration practically specifically regarding the Global Methodist gathering in Johannesburg later this year?

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Aaron Ross Powell So what will happen is episcopal candidates that have been called forth by delegations or through due process respond to 33 questions they have to write on. I'm in the midst of that. Those responses are submitted to the Global Episcopacy Committee. Our own Don Borland here at Christ Methodist is a member of that body. They will then vet candidates. And if I understand correctly, the pool of candidates will be narrowed down out of that process. Then, out of that pool of candidates, I believe there will be some additional interviews by video that will be made public so that all the delegations from around the world have the opportunity to hear responses firsthand from candidates, and which is in good order so that people can make prayerful informed decisions as they guide other as they're guided as to how they may vote. Then at General Conference in Johannesburg, at a point designated in the good order of the church, votes will be taken from the entire body on episcopal candidates. If I understand correctly, there will be eight that are elected. And they each of those eight will be assigned areas that are made up of approximately eight annual conferences that they will provide leadership in. Those approximate could be less, it could be slightly more, but that approximation of those annual conferences do not have to be contiguous. In other words, they don't have to border one another, but they may be made up of annual conferences in more than one country or region of the world. So hopefully hopefully that's helpful. Trevor Burrus, Jr. That's definitely.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

And one thing you mentioned to the staff earlier is there's yes, there are these ones to up for nomination, but there's also some up for re-election, if I understand correctly. Can you talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Aaron Powell Yes. First of all, just we want to honor the bishops that are currently serving these two-year terms. And I want you to know, because there's a lot of moving parts, there are some facts in this segment that I may not get exactly right. Some of those persons are not going to stand for election again, and some of those persons will. So I hope that answer is helpful.

Transition Timeline and Implications

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Aaron Powell That's very helpful. So let's look forward a little bit now as we start to kind of come into the landing here. What does this transition timeline potentially look like if you are elected? And it's we can talk large picture for you as well as large picture for the church as well here.

What if I'm Not Elected?

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Aaron Powell Yeah. So I need to reiterate something that I've shared already with conversations I've had. The Global Methodist Church, when we came out of the convening conference in San Jose, Costa Rica, numbered a little more than 3,000 churches and approximately 38 annual conferences. Today, we are now 52 annual conferences all around the world with over 7,000 churches. In fact, I think we're at 7,111 churches. Now, the reason I go here is because there is no presumption that I'm going to be elected, and I need to express that. As we record this, we're in the middle of March madness. This is not a slam dunk. I don't David prayed in Psalm 22, Lord, keep me from presumptuous sins. I do not presume anything. I am walking by faith, not by sight. I wanted to validate that before I answer your good question, because it it frames how I think I should respond. If hypothetically God, through the people of God, called me to serve as a bishop in the Global Methodist Church, I would take office in 60 days. And I would want the Christ Church family to know that there have already been potential candidates as a senior pastor identified. We're not having conversations with them, but they have been identified. And that has been done because we want to be faithful and we love Jesus Bride here at Christ Methodist. And I also would affirm that the pool that we're looking at are already like-minded, that if there were a pastoral transition here, it will not be a whiplash, that it would be in the flow of who we already are as a church. And the reason I can say that with authority is because the Global Methodist Church is right in the heart of classical Wesleyan theology, and that's who we are as a body. And we're we're committed to full-orb Christianity as a people and being on mission locally and globally, and being in mission, when I say locally, in a very rich way in our city, and that's a reflection of Wesleyan theology. As we all know, John Wesley was led out in a myriad of justice ministries, but we also, in a spirit of Thomas Koch, who's a part of the originating impulses of Wesleyan Christianity, taking the gospel of Christ to the nations. And so I don't, I just want to encourage the body of Christ to be aware that, first of all, there's not overwhelming odds that I'm going to be called to the episcopacy. That's just reality. We don't know that. And at the same time, if God were to call in that direction, it's not going to be a whiplash season for the Christchurch family. Our staff is healthy. I I can say that with a clear mind and clear heart. Nobody's perfect. That's not what I'm saying, but we're healthy. And I believe the church is healthy. I'm not saying we're perfect, but I believe we're healthy. And so if there's a transition, I I think God in his sovereignty and his love for Christ Methodists has postured us well for such a time as this.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

This question's gonna be a little odd, but if you're not elected, what's next for us and what's next for you?

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Yeah. So let let's let's um let's keep it real. If if I'm not, and that's a pot that is a valid possibility, if I'm not we'll we'll navigate kind of this liminal time of he's back. And it it'll feel a little weird because human beings can't help but project expectations. And all of us listening have lived long enough to know that sometimes the expectations that we project in circumstances are just not real. And so let's validate that we would navigate this liminal time together where we've kind of worked through our expectations, but I can say with a clear mind and a clear heart that I would remain full for in pursuing our mission and vision as a church family. I shared today with our staff that in the space that we're in, we're not letting off the gas pedal in any way. We are going to continue to pursue glorifying God and making disciples of Jesus Christ among all peoples. And we are going to continue to pursue our goals around discipleship and mission and worship attendance and church planting locally and globally. And so we're not going to miss a beat in those arenas as we're faithful to Jesus as we should be.

Key Messages for the Congregation

SPEAKER_02 31:48

I have two more questions before we end. And I think you just answered this next one, but I want to be very explicit with asking this and having you respond. What do you want the people of Christ Methodists to hear most clearly from you right now?

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Keep your eyes on Jesus. He is the prize. That the things of earth are temporary, and the kingdom of God is an organic kingdom, and living things at times get shifted, they get plucked up, they get re-rooted. But keep your eyes on Jesus, who is the author and perfecter of your faith. And I also don't want to be dismissive that I recognize that the church, when the senior pastor may be in some type of transition, I am I don't want to be dismissive of how that can feel and the emotions that we navigate. And what I want our church family to know is that it's safe to express that. The languages of grief are mad, sad, glad, which represents sarcasm and cynicism, scared or hurt. And if you're feeling an emotion, being with your church family, it is okay to say this makes me sad, or I feel hurt, or I feel angry, or you've got a quirky, sarcastic remark. And I think it's important to be the body of Jesus and love each other well and be safe with one another to be real and express our emotions. And it's very important not to be dismissive of those things. And I'm not, and I want our congregation to know that it is safe to come to me and say, Pastor, here's what I'm feeling, here's what I'm thinking. But I'll circle back. Jesus is using all things together for good for those who love him. He is. And that good that he's after comes in the next verse, which is our development of being like Christ. And our classroom is our circumstance. So he is at work in this circumstance. That does not cease. He will continu he is working, he will continue to work, and it is not a wasted hour. It is not an hour where we're paralyzed or we're immobilized. God is on the throne, he is working, we're on mission, we'll keep our eyes on Jesus, but we'll also honor what we're feeling, what we're thinking in one another, because the first responsibility of a follower of Jesus is to love deeply, to love God, to love one another deeply. And so God help us to do that and then live into that as a faith family.

How to Pray in This Season

SPEAKER_02 34:56

Aaron Ross Powell And again, I think you answered the next question or the last question I'm going to ask is as a church family, how can we pray in this season? How can we pray for you as well as the church and our leaders?

SPEAKER_01 35:05

Aaron Ross Powell Well, that's again, Lance, you ask great questions. So I I would go to what has Jesus already said. And he said that we are to pray his kingdom come, his will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And as I say oftentimes, and I may have said already in this podcast, you cannot improve on God's will. You cannot improve on it. And as again, as Romans 12, 1 and 2 says, it's good, pleasing, and perfect. And when you're in the will of God, what Paul's describing there is God saying it's good and people are going, this is good. God saying it's pleasing and people are going, this is pleasing. God saying it's perfect, and people going, wow, this is perfect. You cannot improve on that. So the most important thing to pray is that, Lord, we we submit our hearts and lives to you, and we pray your will be done on earth as it is in heaven in this circumstance, and again, for his glory, so that we stand in awe of his goodness and his beauty, and the way he's gracious that he gives us what we don't deserve, and the way he's merciful, we don't get what we deserve. He's gracious and merciful and good, and we get to relish and enjoy the beauty of who he is. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

Paul, thank you for talking today. And I hope if anybody has questions, they'll reach out to you, follow up. Like you said, express sadness if you're sad. But thank you so much for your time today. Appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Thank you, Lance. Always an honor to be with you.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the podcast for Christ Methodist Church in Memphis, Tennessee. We pray that today's message has inspired and encouraged you in your walk with Christ. To stay connected with our church community, visit us online at Christchurchmemphis.org. We hope to see you this upcoming Sunday for worship as we seek to glorify God and make disciples of Jesus Christ among all peoples.