Conversation Starter 23 | A Special Conversation with C.S. Lewis Scholar Michael Ward

In this special conversation starter, Andrew speaks with this year's Lyceum speaker, Michael Ward, C.S. Lewis scholar.

----------------

Dear listener, we want to hear from you! Send us your questions and comments to podcast@theacademyok.org.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Dear listener, welcome to this special edition of our regular feature, Lyceum Conversations starters, with our Lyceum Project guest, Dr. Michael Ward. We're going to attempt a five-minute conversation for your listening pleasure on the topic of Dr. Ward's evening Lyceum Project Lecture, The Abolition of Man. Dr. Ward, welcome to Lyceum Conversations. Thank you, Andrew. Glad to be with you. I thought maybe as a way of directing people to either your Lyceum lecture recording itself or the work on which it's based, we might start by you giving us a kind of brief anticipatory, in this case, recap of your lecture, uh, The Abolition of Man and How to Avoid It.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Well, The Abolition of Man is Lewis's shortest book, but also his most difficult book. It's based on three philosophical lectures he gave during the Second World War on whether value is objective or subjective. And his argument is value, things that are good, things that are true, things that are beautiful, are objective realities which we need to recognise and we need to train ourselves to be able to recognise them and enjoy them more fully. They're not just subjective ideas that we project onto the world. And if, as he argues, we insist on a subjectivist approach to reality, as if we made up things that are good, true, and beautiful out of our own willpower, if we adopt that position, then we're on a short road to destruction, because the human being is not made to live like that. And if it tries to live like that, it will end up cutting its own throat. It'll end up with the abolition of man. We will be destroying our essential humanity. So that's um a thumbnail sketch of Lewis's book The Abolition, and then I've written a guide to the abolition of man called After Humanity, in which I unpack this slim but difficult work because although it's a short book, it's probably his densest book, Pound for Pound, and it needs a lot of explanation.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

One of the possible alternative titles of this short episode is An Appendix to an appendix, because the abolition of man somewhat famously ends with uh an appendix wherein Lewis uh includes lots of quotations from various sort of traditions um throughout the world. And you have in at the end of your After Humanity book uh a sort of glossary of discussion questions or a a guide for discussing abolition of man, one of which asks a question about that appendix. Would you explain that question and why it may be relevant?

SPEAKER_00 2:50

So, yes. In Lewis's appendix, he ha he lists eight moral laws, like our duty to ancestors, our duty to children and posterity, our the duty of truth telling and veracity, uh and so on. Eight moral laws, which he then illustrates with quotations taken from all sorts of different moral, religious, philosophical traditions down through the ages and across the globe. They include Aboriginal, Australian, Native American, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, any number of traditions that support his claim that people throughout the world and down through history have recognized that, yeah, we have duties to our ancestors, we have duties to our children, we must tell the truth, and so on. And this is part of his argument that this is our moral inheritance as a species, as human beings, we all have a conscience, we all have the light of practical reason which tells us what is good and what is bad, what is true, what is false, what is beautiful, what is ugly. From a Christian point of view, this of course is testimony to the to the conscience, our God given conscience, that we have been made in the image of God. But even if you don't believe in God, even if you don't believe in the Christian God, you may still recognise that there is this conscientious aspect to human nature, which ought not to be eradicated or damaged. So that's Lewis's appendix, these eight moral laws, and the very last quotation that he gives in his own appendix is taken from the Gospel of John, where Jesus says, Unless a grain of wheat die and fall into the earth it remains alone, but if it dies it bears fruit. Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it. And that's where he ends the quotation. So on a very downbeat note. He doesn't even get to the next bit of the verse, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospels will save it. He doesn't get to that bit. It's just about death. It's you know he's talking about the abolition of man. It's it's a negative argument, really. And so my question in my appendix to my guide after humanity is why does Lewis finish his appendix with this quotation from John's Gospel? And my answer is that it's an implicit way for Lewis to indicate h his own Christian commitment, that he ends with a with the words of Jesus Christ. Okay, he's he's keen to see points of connection with other traditions, with other philosophies and r religious um perspectives. But of course his own perspective is Christian and he thinks that of all the attempts to be human, the the the most perfect, the only perfect one is that life lived by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. So if you're if you're seeking after humanity this is why I called my book after humanity, if you're seeking after humanity, the per the place and person to look to is Jesus, because he gave up his life. He he was the seed that fell into the earth and died and rose again, bringing up the whole of the cosmos with him in the in the resurrection. So that's I think very probably why Lewis chose to end his appendix on that note, because it sort of sums up his whole argument, but without, as it were, hitting you in the face with his own Christian commitments.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

If you'd like to hear more from Dr. Ward, I direct you either to the Academy's YouTube channel, I can't believe I'm saying those words, or um to the Academy podcast where we will release a version or audio recording of Dr. Ward's lecture. Dr. Ward, as I've said many times, it's a real delight to have you here with us, and thank you for being game to do such a strange short podcast recording. My pleasure. Thanks, Andrew.