Episode 78: Forget the Fairytale: Rewriting the Stories That Hold Us Back with Deb Miller

In this episode of The Well-Tended Life podcast, I sit down with Deb Miller—author, professor, grandmother, and truth-teller—for an honest and inspiring conversation about rewriting the stories we’ve been handed and daring to create a new kind of happily ever after.

Deb’s memoir Forget the Fairytale is both a personal journey and a call to women everywhere to release outdated scripts about who we should be, what a “good girl” does, and where our worth comes from. Through her own experiences of heartbreak, resilience, reinvention, and joy, she shows us how forgetting the fairytale can actually be the beginning of living more freely, authentically, and happily.

We talk about the cultural conditioning that keeps women small, the power of claiming our own stories, and how even Disney princesses have evolved from damsels in distress to warriors of their own destiny. Deb also shares the tender wisdom of her daughter’s words, her reflections on motherhood and career pivots, and why choosing happiness is not only possible but powerful.

Whether you’re navigating divorce, reinvention, or simply ready to stop living by someone else’s rules, this conversation will stir your courage, spark your imagination, and remind you that it’s never too late to write a new story.

✨ Here are a few Heart Taps from this episode:

1️⃣ Fairytales reflect culture—but they don’t have to define your life. You can change the story and the ending.

2️⃣ Happiness isn’t about circumstances—it’s about the choices we make every day.

3️⃣ Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is show your kids (and yourself) what strength looks like.

4️⃣ Transformation often starts with a moment—whether it feels like a slap in the face or an unexpected epiphany.

5️⃣ Forgetting the fairytale doesn’t mean giving up hope; it means creating your own version of happily ever after.

🌸 So grab your journal and settle in—this is a conversation about courage, freedom, and finding joy in the story you choose to tell.

CONNECT WITH DEB HERE: 

https://forgetthefairytale.net/

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Transcript

 

Hello everyone and welcome to the Well-Tended Life podcast. I'm your host, Keri Wilt, a speaker, writer, and a heart cultivator who is on a mission to help you and me grow through any season. Today's episode is inspired like all of them, by a quote from The Secret Garden, and this one says, Mistress Mary always felt that however many years she lived, she should never forget that for first morning when her garden began to grow.

And it's such a powerful reminder that there are moments in life that will never forget right moments where everything starts to shift and some things begin to newly grow. , But it also invites us to reflect on what we should forget. The old stories, the outdated rules, the fairytales we've been handed about who we should be and how we should act, and what a good girl does, and who she's supposed to love.

, And that brings me to today's guest, Deb Miller, author of Forget the Fairytale, and she's a truthteller and a trailblazer, helping women to break free from the cultural conditioning that. Keeps them stuck and small. Her work invites women to stop living someone else's story and start writing their own with grit, grace, and a whole lot of honesty.

So in this episode, we're gonna talk about the stories we've outgrown, the ones we need to rewrite, and how to begin tending to the kind of life that feels free, unauthentic, and truly yours. Because sometimes the most magical moment isn't when the garden is in full bloom. It's when you realize it's finally beginning to grow.

So get ready, friend. This is a conversation you won't forget. Let's dig in. Hello, Deb. Hi Carrie. So glad to be here. Welcome. Y'all can't see it because, you're in audio land, but Deb is literally living in an enchanted forest. She is surrounded by treetops and, , , it's . Lovely. Give everybody a little bit more of an introduction from you and maybe tell them where is this in chained forest that you live in.

I'm Deb Miller and I'm talking to you from a, an enchanted force just outside of Seattle. And formally speaking, my background sounds a bit like an alphabet soup. Officially I'm a former Fortune 500 marketing VP with A DBA, and that means a doctorate in business. And before that I had, I earned an MBA and a CPA, and now I teach part-time as a marketing professor.

, So I mean, why stop at an MRS when you can collect a few more letters? Right. So, right. So I'm Dr. Miller to my university students. I'm Mimi to my grandkids, and I'm just Deb to everybody else. And now with my memoir. Which is officially the Forget the fairytale and find your happiness. I get to add a new title to the mix, and that is author.

And that's kind of why we're here today, I think. Yes, I am. I'm so excited. Yeah. Your path is a little alphabet soupy. Right. Love that because it always reminds people, , that they don't have to be just one thing, right? That in different seasons of our lives, we get to choose , what's that next shift?

What's that next pivot? , What do I wanna be in this season? Rewind a bit and tell us, like, where did that moment come for you when you were like, I feel like I need to write a book. Like when did this start creeping in? I. Let me back up even further. Sure. So the moment that I realized I needed to forget the fairytale, which we'll talk more about the fairytale in a minute, but there were actually two very different moments.

One that felt like a slap in the face and maybe some people can relate to that, not a literal slap in the face. But, the other was more like an epiphany, so more positive. And interestingly enough, they both involved my youngest daughter, Allie. So that first moment, the slap in the face happened just before she left for college.

And she's I think 27 now. So we were out to dinner and just the two of us and, , my husband, her dad had been busy cleaning out his sister's nearby condo and couldn't join us. And he'd been working late for days, even slept there the night before trying to get it ready to sell. And Allie and I decided, let's swing by and take him some carry out and reward him for all this hard work.

And when we arrived, there was an SUV in the driveway and I didn't think much about it. He had a lot of friends that were helping him with these repairs. And, but then the front door was locked, which was unusual, and Allie looked a little bit worried. So we walk around back and the sliding glass door and the patio was open.

So we stepped inside and by the door there were two pair of shoes. His and hers were not mine. So right then, I knew the fairytale of our marriage was over. This wasn't the first time. , He cheated, but it was going to be the last, because this time my daughter knew and I needed to show her what strength looked like.

And the next day as he left on a cruise with this other woman, I met with an divorce attorney. And the day he returned, I handed him divorce papers. So that was the slap in the face moment. But the other, the second moment, and this is the one I like to, , remember, and it came a few years later and it was very different, but it was also unforgettable.

So I was watching Brave, the Disney Princess movie set in Scotland, and Allie came downstairs probably drawn by the smell of popcorn and she sat down next to me just as a film was nearing its end. And I tried to fill her in, , because she hadn't seen it before. I said, we don't know yet which Prince is going to rescue her, but we're about to find out.

And she leans over. She's only watched it for a minute by at this point, and she says, mom. No, prince is coming. She can handle this on her own. And I laughed. That was my response because of course I'd been trained to expect a prince my whole life. That's how the story always goes. And then the credits start to roll.

And there was no prince had shown up yet. And I heard myself say, don't worry, Disney will bring him in the credits. Suddenly , I realized how stupid I must have sounded. And I start laughing like hysterically the kinda laugh, or the tears ready to your face and you can't stop.

And I was thinking my mind is racing. , Could it be true that no prince was coming, like 60 some odd years of programming told me otherwise? And my daughter looks at me and she says, mom. You of all people should know this, you don't need a prince. And you are very successful and you're one of the happiest people that I know.

And she was right. And at that moment, I finally got it. Like these modern day princesses, they don't need a prince to solve their problems or make them happy. The prince is optional. And even better, my daughter already knew this and she told me that I had taught her this truth without even having learned it for myself until that very moment.

So I could forget the traditional fairytale. And I had written a different one, a better one, a better ending to my story. So , that was , the moment I wanna remember.



So you have these moments, and I'm sure after any divorce, right? , There's deprogramming of all the things, right? And processing and what does life look like and , what does this next version of me, look like?

Where in all of that did you start to think, okay, if I didn't know this, I'll bet there are other people that didn't know this either, and I need to tell them, I need to show them this through your book. So it was a pandemic. I had a pandemic moment where you're trying to fill the time and do something meaningful.

And my mom had recently had a stroke and I wish that I had, captured all these stories that she had told over the years. And I had two really cool grandmothers who also had neat stories, and I thought during the pandemic, maybe I can write down these family stories because then my granddaughter can read them someday.

So that's what I started to do. And then after a while I sent it to an editor and she said, you know what? I love this story, but the story is about you. Like you need to take out 80% of these family stories. Because the arc is about how you've transformed. And I actually used I remembered when I was working on it, I needed some framework for the story and

this is what the editor really liked. And I started each chapter with an epigraph a couple sentences that foreshadows what's gonna happen in the chapter. And I remembered some research when I was working on my dissertation and it was on the topic of corporate rebranding. And most of the stories or the research articles I read were you read thousands of articles.

'cause you're trying to find one unique thing on the topic when you're writing a dissertation. And most of them were like about GM or at and t and their corporate rebrandings. And then I ran across one about the Disney franchise and how they had rebranded from these damsels in distress into, , warrior princesses.

And I thought, that's me. That's what happened to me. So I use these to start each chapter. So we start with the snow whites waiting at the wishing wheel. , For a guy like I was I. Long ago, and then we transformed into the bells and the Ariels and the Jasmines that were much more adventurous.

But there's still a guy in the picture. And then of course, today's versions, there's no prints in the picture, like what we were just talking about. And , she can solve the problem. And I thought, yeah, that's me. The editor really liked that, and she said, this story needs to be about your transformation because that's what other women can relate to.

They have also transformed as society changed, with the women's movement in the sixties and seventies and Title ix. Instead of us sitting on the sidelines now, we're, in the game and, . When in the workforce, or they used to, vacuum from home wearing their pearls like June cleaver, like my mom did.

I thought this is something other women need to understand. Like it's okay to transform. We don't have to follow that traditional fairytale that our mom had. We can be more a Mary Tyler Moore or Claire Huxtable or something like that. That's what I had been. I really felt compelled then to share that message with other women and the focus on the happiness part.

So if you can forget that's when you can carve your own path and that's when you get to your own unique happily ever after. That's how it happened for me, and that's what I kinda like to help other women with. And I noticed Carrie, you had on one of your social media platforms. I saw you riding on a bike or, mm-hmm.

So, and it was about carving your own path and I thought, yes, this is what it's about. Oh, I love that. Yes. I have in inadvertently become the photo that our town uses for their marketing. You know, some, a friend called and said, Hey, can you meet me down in the park with one of your bikes?

I was like, sure. Not realizing that would happen, but yeah, we all have to carve our own path, right? But so many times I feel like we were told to follow in the footsteps for me, that's a fairy tale that a lot of people have fallen behind. , We did, because our parents did.

And whether your dad was a doctor, then you became a doctor. Your parents owned this, , we actually, my husband and I, actually, as of the time that we are recording this, and we are former restaurateurs. We actually just sold our restaurant that we've owned for the last 18 years because our kids don't feel that that obligation to follow in our footsteps.

They're out carving their own path, and it's like that generation they somehow got the messaging. It's interesting that you say , that Disney, purposefully did that. In the teach , in the changing of those dam, it's no longer a damsel in distress.

, I think what happens is, so society evolves. Yeah. And then the media, whether it's TV or the Disney franchise, they reflect that. Yeah. But we are also in real life changing in parallel and we're, it's a. Circle, we change. So society, you know, as a whole sort of changes.

It gives us permission and then the media reflects it and then we change a little more. 'cause we see it, we get permission to do that, goes, Hey, they're doing that on tv, we can do that. So it's kind of a interesting circle how it all evolves. It's amazing to sit back and watch and even think about it.

I hadn't,, until today I hadn't really thought about those things.

 Hey, hey, hey. Have you heard the news? I am so thrilled to announce that I have partnered with Melissa Gilbert of Little House on the Prairie Fame and her company and community over@modernprairie.com. You'll find me there most days. Teaching the topsoil of my life, tending, journaling, practice, leading an accountability and check-in group called the Journaling Gems Club, which is designed to help you to not just get journaling, but to stay journaling all while building some community along the way.

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I can't wait to see you there.

 So you talk a lot about breaking free from expectations. Right? And I think actually some of the worst expectations we have are the ones we put on ourselves or that we imagine, right? But tell us about maybe one of the fairytales that you personally believe for a long time that you had to unlearn, right?

Clearly the Prince Charming one is one big one, but what about others? Well, that was really the big one. Okay. I had to unlearn my mother's fairytale that's what a lot of people say. Like, this isn't your grandmother's fairytale or whatever. This wasn't, I had to unlearn my mom's fairytale, the one that she prepared me for.

And in the book I have all these lessons, , this is what you do to be a good girl, , and they're sprinkled through every chapter. And I think a lot of women can relate to those lessons too, things that they were taught. So there's lots of mini lessons in there, but hers, as I mentioned it, , it looked like June Cleaver.

And she was, my mom was the perfect corporate wife supporting her husband's career. That was the script and she was super good at it and she was living her dream. And I thought that was the path I was supposed to be on. But then the women's movement, as I mentioned, came along. There was suddenly the pill and Title IX and Gloria Steinem and , the rules were changing and it became expected for women to be in the workplace, which was totally foreign to me.

There wasn't one mom in the neighborhood I grew up in that worked, and we led the kind of childhood. , It would shock some people. You think of these women are at home all day, then why are the kids out running around the neighborhood? We were basically, the doors would open in the summer and you'd go outside and you were let in for meals.

And there'd be a dinner bell and you'd come home and like Pavlov's dog or something. And that was about it. 'cause you didn't get inside the house because there, they wanted it clean because that's how these women were judged by the cleanliness of their home, how their husband's career went, and how their kids turned out.

There was nothing really in there for them. And I think that's been the change that has resulted from the women's movement. That's really positive. You can have something else besides that if you want it. If you don't want it, that's okay too. . But for me, my Prince charming salary wasn't going to carry us to our happily ever after, not with the need for braces and college tuition and all the realities of modern life.

So I suited up I got a white horse of my own and went back to work full time and started writing a different ending to the story. One where I had a really successful career, kind of like my dad,, while raising three incredible kids, kinda like my mom. So I was like the hybrid of both. Did you start that later in your marriage or did you start out working when the kids were young?

, I worked six years before we had our first child, and then I actually, it was a pivotal moment for me because I had a really promising career and I thought maybe 'cause things were starting to happen for women, I thought maybe I could be one of those women that can have it all. And then my dad actually died of cancer right when I was nine months pregnant and still trying to, struggling with that decision of whether to go back in the workplace.

And I thought that was a sign like, and I asked him for his advice and he's like, if you want to, the career will always be there and just go and enjoy that baby. So I took his advice, but I actually never totally stopped working. I used my CPA to work for Coopers and now Pricewaterhouse Coopers.

I went to them and I said, I. Hey, would you hire me for just three months of the year during your busy season, because I wanna be at home the rest of the nine months. And they, they looked at me like, this is a really strange request. This is back in like 1984 or five. , And so now of course all these part-time, part year things are very common, but it wasn't.

And so I was a pioneer and they hired me to do that. And five years later they had like 40 people doing this and at, just at the Indianapolis office. So, that allowed me to get my work fix, make some money, keep current, and then I started teaching a year after that year round at Indiana University.

I taught managerial accounting. I did all that. And so I never really totally left. I think that was important because computers were being introduced right around then. And so I didn't miss that boat. , And then I did some. You didn't really ask about this, but you probably wonder why this accounting, and I'd been in corporate finance before I had my kids and now accounting during the part year stuff, and I And how did she become a VP of marketing?

I was asked to do a really cool project for Anheuser-Busch, some consulting about their beer over in Russia. And so I could speak a little bit of Russian. And so I did that. And then they asked me to do, after the financial work, they said, can you do the marketing research too? And I thought, wow.

I mean, I have an MBA, I've studied marketing, but I've never done it. I'm this corporate finance, public accounting girl. Why do they want me to do marketing? But I thought, if they think I can do it, why don't I think I can do it? So I did it and then I thought this is a lot more fun than the accounting or the finance.

And then I was asked to be a tournament director on the WTA tour in my hometown. , Kind of a last minute effort. And, tennis was an important part of my life at that time especially. And so I did that and that was sports marketing, and that was super fun. And I thought, you know what? Now it's time for me to go back full time.

The kids are in school, they're in kindergarten and beyond. I looked for a position in marketing and I found one at Cummins, , engine company, and I never looked back. I just love love marketing. I love that. I love that something new kind of popped up and you didn't allow fear to get in your way because so many women that would stop them, right?

Of like, well, I don't have any experience in that. But you know, the whole, if they think that you can do it, of course you can do it. I think that's true for a lot of women. Like other people see qualities in them and skills, and you don't see it yourself. And so sometimes you just have to be listening.

Maybe when people give you an idea like, yeah, maybe I could do that. You know, or that might be interesting. For me, it's always been like, what's fun, what do I enjoy doing? And I really enjoyed the marketing and I'm enjoying the book marketing. I don't know anything about it. It's nothing like marketing for a company that I know how to do, but the book marketing is something really new for me.

Oh my goodness. Well, clearly over the years you've had a lot of growth, right? All of these ages and stages, but growth is not always pretty. Right? It's, I always say it's like the dirt work, right? There's a lot of this stuff that people don't see. What have been some of your biggest challenges on your journey , and how did you work through those?

Oh gosh, where do we start? So leaving my first marriage, that looked perfectly fine from the outside. That was challenging. , Having my third child at age 40, that was tough. , Raising that one mostly on my own, , while juggling two teenagers and a demanding job. And then later I lost a job while I had two kids in college.

So how do you get through all that? Honestly, , one decision at a time years ago, I was after all these challenges, I was asked to speak at a United Way luncheon for hundreds of women, part of a speaker series that highlighted female leaders. And, , the topic was they wanted us to offer tips to success.

So it, it pauses you to think , what am I gonna say to these women? What can I offer them? And I decided to call my talk pick two, like the Panera special. And this was my advice. I said, if you really want to succeed at something like a career or whatever, you can't do it all. You have to pick two things to focus on out of four key areas.

And I mapped out these four areas. So number one was family, and that's however you define it. It might be just your spouse, it might be, just your kids. It might be the combination, it might be your aging parents, et cetera. All the above. That was number one, family, of course. And then number two is friends, and three was work, and four was self.

For me, for many years I chose family and I defined it as my three kids. And my second area was work. And that was it. I did not have time for friendships. I wasn't even the best neighbor during that time because I really was absentee. And I, and I definitely did not have any time for myself.

I didn't get my nails done. I like, like nothing. Zero. I didn't watch any television shows or movies that I would want. There's like a whole black hole period of my life. Or people say like, did you watch The Gilmore Girls? Like, no,, I never saw anything. But that was my choice and I made it intentionally.

And by the way, I am watching the Gilmore Girls now on replay, but. Was it hard just doing those two areas? Yes, absolutely. But my kids turned out to be amazing humans and I had a terrific career. And so looking back, I feel like I chose the right two for that season of my life. Now I can be much more balanced and, I can find joy in all four areas and and that is a lot more rewarding.

But I felt like at the time, that's what I had to do if I really wanted to be successful at work and provide for my kids in a way that I wanted to. Well, and I, I don't know if I agree with the two choices, you know, only picking two out of four. 'cause I do believe that there is a way to live a balanced life.

 Friends, let me ask you a few questions and I want you to answer them honestly. Are you exhausted from years of watering everyone and everything else but you? Does it feel like your gifts, dreams, and passions have been locked up tighter than the secret garden? Do you struggle with. Things like anxiety, jealousy, busyness, or maybe fear.

Would you like to see more joy, goodness, and growth in your life? Listen, if you've answered yes to any of these questions, I am thrilled to. To tell you that the fall session of Cultivate You has just been announced and it begins September 18th. Now, what is Cultivate You? Cultivate You is a six week online journey where I'll walk beside you and teach you new ways to water your dreams, unearth your gifts.

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 I do believe in focusing where your energy goes, right. And being really uber clear about that. Because, I always tell people that you know, we're basically a wa a human watering can, and, and, we're pouring out into those things around us, and like, you're pouring into your family, you're pouring into your work, you're pouring into your friends, et cetera.

And there's a reason that a watering can doesn't have six heads, right? It's only one at a time. And so, , the more things we try to pour into it at the same time, right? Like we're just spreading the same amount of water. Thin. So I definitely, I definitely agree with you there.

But I question your, you are not pouring into yourself at all because it feels like there was a time where, and maybe and, and it was like that slap in the FaceTime when you walked in the door and you were like, I now have to stand up and actually be strong for myself, for my daughter.

That was there, whereas you didn't do that, that before. When did you start that shift of starting , to pour back into you and renewing your strength and all of that was that post-divorce? It was post-divorce, but more importantly it was post, um, I retired early from the corporate world, and my mom had had the stroke and so I wanted to I actually helped take care of her for the year after that at my home for about three months.

And then she had to go into a memory care facility nearby. And then she wanted to head back. I was in Florida at the time. She wanted to head back to Indiana to be near my dad's grave. So I started doing my own personal growth when I retired from corporate America early. And I finally had some time to think, to start spreading myself across those four areas. And I agree, you're much more balanced and happy if you have all four. I was trying to answer for the United Way women if you really wanna be, let's call it great.

At some area, I think you have to kind of focus. Yes. And for me, that's what I chose to do. 'cause I did really, I was just compelled to, to, I was very ambitious in a good way. I wanted to please, you know, and I wanted to do a good job and I just couldn't stop myself. And I was also wildly creative.

I just found my, my home there in marketing and, there's only so many hours in a day. Mm-hmm. But when I found myself, time for myself was at, when I pulled myself out of corporate America and I went back to, that's when I got my doctorate and that's when I started teaching at a couple universities just very part-time.

And I just really enjoy that. So it's certainly not for the money. They don't pay professors very well, but I, I really enjoy it. I love that. Well, and I love the way you blend kind of storytelling with this transformation work, right? Why do you think the stories we tell ourselves, like, or even the ones we've been handed are so powerful in shaping how we live?

I think fairytales have been around for centuries for a reason. They reflect the values of the cultures that tell them, and they're repeated often enough that they stick. And I think they shape how we see the world and ourselves often without us really even realizing it. And here's an interesting story.

There's a world renowned expert on fairytales. His name is Dr. Jack Zees from Minnesota University of Minnesota, who, like you, Kerry, generously endorsed my book. And Jack this fairytale expert once shared a story about Einstein and fairytales that , I just love. So let me recount this. Some of your listeners may have heard it before.

It's kind of famous, but he tells a story about Einstein and there was a grandmother. Who wanted her grandson to be intelligent. So she famously chased down , none other than Albert Einstein on the Princeton University campus. He had an office there at the time, and she asked Einstein, what books should my grandson be reading so that he could be smart like you?

And she asked him three times. She's , hounding the guy, chasing him. And all three times he kept giving the same answer. And that was fairytales. So clearly he thought that they were very powerful. People analyzed that story later, and I think they think it's the, he thinks that fairytale spur imagination and creativity and that those things are really important.

That's very interesting to me. But fairytales are not just about dragons and glass slippers. I think they, they act as social commentary. They reflect and shape our societal norms and values. And as I mentioned before, that's how I use the evolution of the Disney princesses as a framework.

In my memoir, I use cultural commentary. It's kind of sassy commentary about Snow White and things, and how women's role, women's roles and expectations have changed over time and how the media mirrored that shift. So we get these fairytales from everywhere, not just in a book, but movies and your family and culture and well-meaning advice.

The key is when you hear all these things is that when you change the story, you can change the ending. So for me, that meant that I could be the heroine of my story instead of that damsel in distress waiting for a prince to save the day or to make me happy. So I took charge of my own happiness.

And  there's a lot written about happiness right now and I've kind of been looking into it since it's part of my book. , A lot of women find themselves stuck and feeling like that traditional happily ever after isn't happening for them. Maybe they did everything right, like they checked all the boxes and they feel like there's something missing.

But I wanna remind them that you can take charge of your unhappiness. So here's an interesting stat from a happiness researcher. Her name is Sonya Lou Bo Murky, and her re, she's pretty famous in this area and her research shows that about 50%. Our happiness is genetic 10%. Only 10% is based on your circumstances or your life circumstances.

I think most people would think that would be higher. So that leaves 40%. That is within our control, 40%. That means we have a lot more power than we realize. That's the heart of my book. Forget the Fairytale and Find Your Happiness. So it's an invitation for women to stop chasing someone else's definition of the happy ending and start asking, what do I want?

What? What does my happily ever after look like? And the feedback I've gotten tells me that the message is resonating. Like readers keep using the same word. And almost every blurb that I get on the book is inspired, and I am. So honored that Brenda Chapman, who was the Academy Award-winning writer and director of that Disney's movie, brave described the book.

She's read it as an inspiring read. And Jill Zain of the, she's a friend of mine, actually, the Real Housewives of New York original cast. She read it and said Every woman should read it. And I looked up, Carrie, what you wrote, and you also had the word inspire in your lovely endorsement. So I, so for me, if someone's feeling stuck, I suggest starting with a small step, something kind of playful.

So on my website. I'm about ready to add some bonus content that's designed to spark joy. So it's like something you can tape to your fridge with little actions that move you closer to happiness. This little sparkles of joy, like how to create a digital postcard from Italy and send it to yourself to keep the dream alive, to go there and practice your Italian or something.

Or, , instructions on how to make a digital action Figure Barbie for your best friend and send it to her on a tough day. , You can check my book Instagram for what that looks like. I created an author Barbie, and one of my favorites on the list is about be a joiner. Stop reading about pickleball and go play.

, Find a league, sign up today or try curling. You don't have to be Canadian, but you might just meet one. It's just about giving people little hints of happiness, and that's what I'm trying to do. I love that so much. And I think sometimes people think that, in order to, for forget the fairytale, they have to forget it all.

And that's not necessarily true. It's literally changing some small things to take your story in a different direction is what I'm hearing. Right, exactly. That, that you don't have to keep going down that well-worn path that other people in the past have gone through and really we shouldn't.

You know, we are all made so differently and to think that we should all follow some formulaic way. , Or a career path or whatever it is. Or that ours should look like. The one of our friends, on Instagram, you know, where people tend to, have not jealousy, but like, you know, it's like they, they feel like their life isn't good enough because it doesn't look like this but everybody's lives are different and should be different.

Well, Barbie gets it, or Mattel, whoever makes it these days. Yeah. That's why they have a Barbie for every occasion. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Oh my gosh, this has been so good. Last question is, if you could go back and give your younger self like a little wisdom, like what would you say to her?

You have the best questions, Carrie. Right now though, I'd like to speak to future Deb, , about book marketing because it's a whole new world for me. I'd love to ask my future self a year from now, , what did you learn? , But as for a younger version I would advise 10-year-old Deb who went by Debbie, I think at that time.

But I would say dream big. This is not your mom's fairytale. So I would clue her in. And to 40-year-old Deb, the one who had just delivered her third child and was on, had to get on a jet. , When that little one was only 12 weeks old and head off to China on business, I would tell her, don't worry, your children are all going to turn out terrific.

They'll be well educated like you dreamed of with fantastic jobs and wonderful partners that reflect the diverse world you've provided for them. And you are going to make it to happily ever after. It will just look differently than what you expected. It will be so much better. I love that. I love that so much.

And y'all can't see this, but I can see the smile on her face and it's so genuine. And I just wanna remind everybody at home, like getting to happily ever after. It's a choice. You get to choose which path to choose. You get to choose what stuff to leave behind or drag forward into the next season, right?

These are these, it's not just, like she said, the 50% and the 10% circumstances, 40% of it we get to choose. And so think about those choices. Think about what you want, your happily ever to after ever, every happily, ever after. Wow, I just totally messed that one up. I can't even say it happily ever after.

To look like. It's so good. Here's Deb living in her enchanted forest and inspiring women. I think if any of us can look back, like if you looked back at your 10-year-old self, you'd be like, what Debbie's inspiring women. Debbie's an author, I think always our younger selves would be would be so happy to see what we're doing and what we're choosing.

So good. So good. So good. Now for the back half of the interview, , where I ask all of the guests the same questions. The first question is, , I always ask people to tell us a little bit about the season that they're in because when people ask me like, what I think the most important thing someone can do to live their best well-attended life, it's to know their season.

Because if we don't understand the season we're in we make bad decisions with our yeses and our nos, right? For example, I'm assuming your season, you are in the middle of book marketing season, which means that you gotta say a whole lot of yeses to building your book and you need to say a lot of nos to things that maybe aren't supportive of that.

But tell me, maybe I'm wrong. Tell me a little bit about your season and how that informs how you do life.

I feel like I've lived through all the seasons in the Garden of Life at this point, and I'm very happy to report that I'm in full bloom. And as I mentioned, I'm here to inspire and empower other women to create their own best path in life and to remind them that that happily ever After might not look like the fairytale script we were handed.

It can be better or just right for you. So I am literally. Gardening a lot. I just planted a ton of blueberries and strawberries and my granddaughter helped me and she also helped me with , the weed wacker. I, I told her, I said, I gotta get rid of these foxtails. I've had this little forest of them over here.

And she said, let me help. So that is just pure joy being with my grandkids. That's why I moved to Seattle from Florida. Most people go the other direction, but I came here to have those moments of joy to pick them up from preschool and not never to miss their little sporting events or school programs.

And I am loving every second of it. Tomorrow we have , a tea party that we're going to, it'll be their third year in a row. So I am enjoying the little joys of life. I love that. So do you have any regular practices that might help all of us to live our best well tended lives? Any practices? Let me think.

I have a dog. He's my personal cheerleader. I think you have one too. We heard him barking earlier. Yes. And I exercise a ton. , That's been some part of that self part of my life that I added since corporate life and ended, and, I go hiking. I think you have to embrace where you're at. So I had the beach in Florida and I love that.

But here we have the mountains and they have so many hiking trails. So, you know, get the All Trails app and get out there and take your dog if you have one. I love that. I love that. I love that. I think time and nature and outside is so important for our soul. So good. Okay.

 And now it's time for my favorite part of the interview because it's inspired by my life tending journal practice. But let me be clear, this is not your grandma's journal. It's more of a growth chart, reflection, diary, planting reminder, observation deck, and research notebook all rolled into one. And when used daily, this journal practice is a life changer.

To produce big, beautiful purpose-filled blooms in any season. Now it's by far the most important tool in my own personal life gardening shed. And I wanna gift you a free journaling template today. So check out the link in show notes, or head over to the midlife. Get started today.

 Now the last question is I have a journaling practice, and part of my journaling practice is every day I look back to spot the joy, goodness and growth around me.

So where are you spotting joy in your life? What brings you joy these days? Well, I mentioned my dog and I mentioned the grandkids. Those are the two biggies I suppose. And, , I have great relationships with my three kids. That brings me a lot of joy. We're all very connected and reading when I.

Get , a review or something. And I can tell that my book inspired someone, these ARC readers, it makes the whole project that I never planned to do, write a book. Right. Um, feel worthwhile. So just, I think recognition is free. And I encourage people to give it to people. It's just a real gift. And I think women respond well to positive reinforcement.

So I'm not begging for it for myself. I'm just saying , that's something you can give. To other people? Yeah. Yeah. Or like , a friend. My mom. She actually, , maybe this leads into something more of what I'm grateful for, but my mom passed away last summer, , at the age of 98 after living a beautiful life.

And so this will be the first Mother's Day that I'll have without her, and she will miss the book launch, and she loved a good party. She would've been so proud. And after I earned a doctorate, she made everybody at her assisted living home address me as Dr. Miller, which was kind of embarrassing because , they would assume I'm a medical doctor, not an academic one.

But anyway, they'd start to tell me like their ailments, , and my mom was a real character. And so she would scoot around in a little scooter and, , she would show people like copies. She carried around in a little basket on her scooter, a copy of a journal article that I had published. And she's like, see, look at this.

, So I can imagine that she's very proud of the path I carved. And this Mother's day that my mom is up there, ting all the angels that her daughter, Dr. Miller, wrote a book. And I'm so grateful for my mom and she inspired me. I love that. Well, we, I will definitely take that for goodness, for which you were grateful.

Then last question is where are you spotting growth these days? Like, where are you learning life lessons? You know, what's the growth that's happening? I think I mentioned this when I was talking about my daughter, Allie, and the epiphany I had watching Brave When she, she was playing back to me some of the things I tried to teach to them, some that I was even unaware of.

And just being a role model. So I'm learning from my kids and, I think you have to be open. So I'm not trying to lecture them. And if they want some advice, they'll ask me, but I learned so much from them and I'm so proud of them. And I think they I have two daughters and a son and each in their own way, they're all very unique people, but they have great ideas that they share with me.

So I'm just, I'm a learner and so I'm learning from my kids and my grandkids, and I love it. Love it. Love it. Deb, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing with us. Will you tell people how they can find you? Follow you, buy your book, all the things, and for those about to listen to this, don't like drive off on the road or stop down.

All of this information is gonna be in the show notes, but tell people in general where to find your stuff. With a common name like Deb Miller, I put, and this is the only book I'm ever gonna write, so , I put the website and all the socials in the name of the book. It's easier for people to remember.

So you'll find me@forgetthefairytale.net. It has tons of events on articles that are popping up and links to podcasts like this one mm-hmm. When we have it. And then Instagram, I'm pretty good about that. I just started a couple months ago, but I'm nearing a thousand followers, so this is very exciting.

And , it's at the fairy dale at, or no, excuse me, it's at the little, at symbol and then Forget the fairytale. Yeah. And then there is a Facebook page, the book is being distributed by Powerhouse, , Simon and Schuster. It's available June 24th, and you can buy it anywhere. Books are sold from Amazon to Apple. There's even an audio version. Every bookstore in between is kind of intimidating.

Like, , there is a paperback, a Kindle, and like I said, the audio, I would love to zoom into a few book clubs. And we have some super cool events coming up. If you're local to Seattle, like Pub Day at the pub, there's free beer. I'm buying for anybody that shows that they bought the book and proof of Pur purchase.

And there's a, I'm having a bookstore event at Barnes and Noble here, and it's at a huge store and instead of the traditional author reading, because I'm a marketing person, right? So I'm having some actresses act out a couple scenes in the book. That's gonna be really, really fun. I know. And there's more.

I'm gonna have some events eventually, and Florida, New York, and Indianapolis. So stay tuned, check the website, join the fun, and thank you, Carrie. Oh my gosh. This has been so lovely, and thank you to everyone who has been listening to this podcast. I sincerely hope that this episode has inspired you today to ditch the stories and the fairytales, , that have been keeping you stuck and to brave a new path that will lead you to your happiness in order to live out your best well tended life.

, Until next time, y'all blessings and blooms. Thank you, Deb. Thank you, Carrie.

 Oh my goodness, y'all, that was so good. Don't forget to check the show notes for my favorite Heart Tap moments from this episode. What is a heart tap? Well, whenever I read, listen to a podcast or watch a speaker, I'm always on the lookout for those like head bob, heart tap, and aha moments. You know what I'm talking about.

These are the things that cause your head to Bob, an agreement, your heart to make that tap. When a much needed word of wisdom comes along or your soul to scream, aha, that was the word I was looking for. So for each episode, I like to share a few of my heart taps in the show notes with you, but I'm curious.

What are your heart tap moments? From today's episode? Run on over and direct. Message me your favorite moments, questions, heart taps, and more over at Instagram or Facebook today. And if you are inspired by this episode or maybe learn something new, make sure to share this show with a friend or post about it in your stories.

Finally. Could you do one more favor for me today? Will you take a minute and hop on over to Apple Podcast and leave a kind and thoughtful review for the Well Tinder Live podcast. You see, this is how people find us, and every positive review helps to unlock the door for someone else to get in on the magic life.

Tending to thank you again for listening and being a part of this well-attended life community. And until next time, y'all blessings and blooms.