Episode 85: It’s Not a Crisis—It’s an Emergence with Carolyn Flynn

In this episode of The Well-Tended Life Podcast, I sit down with memoirist, novelist, and speaker Carolyn Flynn for a conversation that feels like a deep exhale — honest, expansive, and full of the kind of wisdom that only comes from living through life’s many seasons.

What begins as a conversation about midlife quickly unfolds into something much richer: a heartfelt exploration of reinvention, grief, identity, and the quiet (and sometimes not-so-quiet) ways life calls us to become someone new.

Carolyn shares her powerful journey through empty nesting, career shifts, and accumulated loss — what she describes as a “colossal failure of the imagination” about what life could be next. But through that unraveling, she discovered something unexpected: freedom, creativity, and a boundless new chapter waiting to be designed.

Together, we explore what it means to tend to your inner world during seasons of change, to sit with discomfort instead of rushing past it, and to trust that even when life feels like it’s falling apart… something new is taking root.

We talk about:

🌿 Why midlife isn’t a crisis, but an emergence
🌿 How accumulated grief shapes us (and how to move through it)
🌿 The power of asking: “Why does this unstitch me?”
🌿 Emotional agility and learning to sit with discomfort
🌿 Letting go of rigid plans and designing life one day at a time
🌿 The shift from self-sufficiency to allowing support
🌿 Rediscovering your voice, creativity, and true self

Carolyn reminds us that even when life strips things away, there is a core part of you that remains untouched — and from that place, you can begin again.

💛 Here are a few heart taps from this episode:

1️⃣ Midlife isn’t the end of your story — it’s a new beginning.
2️⃣ Not all grief comes from death — some comes from becoming.
3️⃣ Asking “why does this unstitch me?” opens the door to healing.
4️⃣ Discomfort isn’t something to avoid — it’s where growth begins.
5️⃣ You don’t have to plan your whole life — just tend to today.
6️⃣ Freedom can feel like confusion… until you learn how to use it.
7️⃣ There is a part of you that cannot be broken — no matter what you lose.

If you’re navigating change, feeling untethered, or wondering what comes next, this episode is your reminder that there is still so much possibility ahead.

This isn’t the end.
 It’s your becoming.

🌼 Connect with Carolyn Flynn:

Website: carolynflynn.com
Substack: carolynflynn.substack.com
Book: Boundless

A Whole New Way To Journal
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Transcript

 Hey friends. Welcome to the Well-Tended Life Podcast. What is a well-tended life? Well, let me start by telling you what it is. Not a well-tended. Life is not a set it and forget it life, nor is it a perfect life. It is though a life that is worked on every day in the sunshine and through the storms. And the truth is what worked in our life gardens last year may not work in the next. That's why. Here at the Welwood Life Podcast, we're interviewing people who have grown and bloomed true in a variety of seasons, and who are willing to share their well-attended wisdom and bead whacking advice with us. Listen in. Hello everyone and welcome to the Well-Attended Life podcast. I'm your host, curri Wilt, a speaker, teacher, and life coach who is on a mission to help women unlock the life they put on hold while they were tending to everyone and ing else. As usual, all of our podcasts here have a line of the secret garden through it. And this podcast episode is inspired by the quote that says, at first, people refuse to believe that a strange new thing can be done, and then they begin to hope it can be done, and then they see it can be done. And here's the deal, y'all so many seasons of life can feel like that strange new thing, right? Maybe it's the onset of midlife, or maybe it's a season of grief that didn't come all at once, but like in crazy layers. Or maybe it's a season of shifts, right? Season of shifts in your identity and your family, in your health, in your faith, in your purpose. Or maybe it's simply the quiet realization that the life you built over the last few seasons has now changed its shape again. And the question we're gonna be talking about today is, what if these shifts aren't actually a bad thing? Like what if they're just part of you're blooming and growing, right? Like kind of like in an emergence. So I'm so excited because today I'm joined by Memoirist Novelist Essayist and TEDx speaker Carolyn Flynn, whose work lives at the intersection of like midlife reinvention, complicated grief, and something she calls emotional agility. And in this conversation, we're gonna be exploring like. Why midlife or really any turning point might actually be an awakening. Um, we're gonna talk about what happens when loss accumulates and how we walk through that instead of bypassing it and about what it really means to live boundlessly even when life doesn't look the way you expect it to. So if you're navigating change of any kind, which basically means you're a human and alive, um, this conversation is for you. So let's dive in. Welcome Carolyn. Thank you, Carrie. I am so glad to be here. Um, I love your show and I'm looking forward to this conversation. Well, um, why don't you, I gave like a very top line, who is Carolyn? Why don't you give your own introduction, of who you are and kind of how you got to be here. Okay. Yeah. Um, well, um, you know, you, you mentioned I was a memos novelist, journalist. I've been writing all of my life. My most recent book, boundless, is about that reinvention. And, and I like to use the word rejuvenation because , what I didn't understand was on the other side was how juicy my new season of life could be. So that's out now. The audio book just came out on Wednesday of last week, and what I'm most enjoying about the book is just having these kinds of conversations with people who have found their way through and navigated that season of change in life. Um, other things I've done the Ted Talk, we could maybe dive into that a little bit 'cause it's really about. Change your story, live a better life, and it's about the story that you're telling yourself. And if you change that story, it puts you in a different conversation with different people. So, um, I'm also a book coach and developmental editor. I should probably mention that. So as an author, I am coaching other people how to become that, um, so that their voices can be heard. So I, I love that role because I'm nurturing so many other emerging voices. I'm think I'm fascinated with this idea of becoming that we are always becoming someone new, which is so lovely. I mean, it really is. Um. One of the things that you talk about and speak about is this idea of like becoming of age. Like why midlife is not a decline, but actually an emergency. . Not an emergency. An emergency is an right word. Yeah. That is so funny. Does that say something about where I am right now? Because truly for those at home, probably know I am smack dab in the middle of midlife. I am 51 years old, I am dealing with menopause and like all the things. And so when I saw this as one of your topics, I was like, oh, I need to talk about this. Your view of this time of life and kind of , what your thoughts were, like, , how did you start looking at it as an emergence and um, take us through that. Sure. Um, you know, I think I thought my fifties were gonna be this jubilee period of my life. Um, you know, you see people who've got wisdom and wealth at this point, and it all looks pretty good. But with my fifties, were more like, just kind of being stuck and stagnant and a little bit of that grief, accumulating,, but the root of that was not tending to myself. I was living an untended life. What started to help me see it is that I was living with two people who were doing , the real classic coming of age moment. I am a single mother of twins. They were about to go off to college in other states. So two thirds of my family was leaving at once, and yet they were so full of life. They were just facing all of the eagerness and the choices and they were a little bit more agile and taking more risks, and there was something about that idea that, you know, can there be another coming of age, maybe as a becoming of age, can you become, again, because I was helping them navigate all this, they were writing college essays, basically predicting what their adult lives would be. To strangers who were on admissions committees. Um, but you know, they were describing these wonderful, promising lives and there was something about that reinvigorated me. At the same time I was facing the sadness that, you know, I'm grieving that they're going and I'm actually the agent of their going. I've been preparing them all of their lives to go, but when I could see that invigorating energy over there, I started to ask, ? Are these the seeds of my new life too? I have never heard anybody describe it that way., I love that and I love this idea. As you were, as you were talking about them writing these essays about like the projection and the prediction of what this next part of their life is gonna be like. It feels like a moment where we could all step back and do something like that. Did you, did you stop and say like, okay, , what do I expect from this next season of life? Did you do any of that? I got there eventually. Um, but Boundless is the story of that. And some of it's just, I mean, all stories are great because they have trouble in them. Um, so it wasn't pretty and it wasn't easy, but it was actually maybe more triumphant for the trouble, you know, my dad always had the joys and the struggle. Um, you know, when you're in the struggle, you don't necessarily wanna hear that, but, um, I think it was really just by being willing to play it out and be in it, that I found it. And I think I started having, this is a journalist thing, my ever abiding question, I started asking everyone because kind of at, the beginning of Boundless, I say I was experiencing a colossal. Failure of the imagination as to what my life would be next. Um, I just couldn't see it, even though, I mean, I, I hoped I would be an author., I hoped for those things. My journalism career was just doing this real death spiral because the industry was doing that. Um, so that had made it hard to see much of horizon, you know, but that colossal failure of the imagination, at least I became aware of it. I think that's probably the first step is being aware of it and then starting to have a curiosity about , why, if I have been an imaginative person all of my life, can I not imagine what's after this? I think for me it was because I had poured by all into the twins. So my mom used, my mom told me the story of when she was a new mom and she was holding me. I was the oldest, so I was the first one to come along. And she's holding me in this older, I think she lived in a trip. She and my father lived in a triplex. So there were other people, you know, on each, on a different floor. So this older woman comes up to her , and sees, , I'm crying 'cause that's what babies do. She goes, yeah. She goes, ah, babies, they'll take all of you, but they won't take more than that. And my mom used to tell that story that it was sort of strangely comforting for her. You know, I think it made her accept the awe that we give our kids. And I, um. Sort of, I guess I tucked that away and didn't remember until in the, in boundless. There's a certain point farther in, um, after these sort of events have played out. When my sister says you gave it your all, that's why there's nothing left. So the empty nest is really empty because you gave it your all. But another sister came in. , I have, um, real sisters and soul sisters, but another sister came in and said, freedom. You've got freedom. And I was like, yeah. And it's terrifying. It's like, I just, I don't know what to do with it. Freedom is confusion. I said to her, she goes, no freedom. You can, you can, whatever your life will be from this step forward, it's really yours to design and make. Mm-hmm. Those were treasured words. I took that in. I, I really took on life design as my new fascination. I love that. So when you say life design, how did you start to implement that for yourself? Well, um, I really look at every day as what day can this be? What can this be? There's a beautiful poem by the poet David White about what to do upon waking. Mm. I can't eloquently quote it here. It's a lovely poem though, and it's basically look at your to-do list from the night before. Mm-hmm. Then realize that while you were sleeping, you were becoming a new person, reading a new day. And then look, do you still want those things on your list today? So that beautiful poem, I use it often as an invocation for some of the writers I coach of just helping them go like, you really do get to write your day. You really do. The other piece of that though, is getting back in touch with my body. 'cause I think there's something, you know, single mom, you're working, it's working kids and it's working kids, and you're not thinking about like, well what am I eating? Or am I actually hungry when I eat? How much sleep am I getting? And, and I, so I would factor that into life design. I've started asking more questions about self-care. Mm. I love that. I also, going back to what you first said, which was, um, you really looked at each day, um, and how to make that the best day. I want everybody at home to listen because she didn't say, I planned six months out, I planned 12 months out. I, I created this life design. Like, 'cause I think when you hear the word life design, you're like, it feels like it should be this big workbook that you work through and blah, blah, blah. And that's not what she said. She said each day, what am I gonna make of each day? Which feels so much less overwhelming than, you know, , it feels like ease. It feels like, okay, I'm gonna tackle it one day at a time. I love that. I love it. Yes. And I'm a big planner, so Yeah. If you had caught me before boundless and that transformation I've been through, I would've been like, I've gotta fight your plan. I've got a 10 year plan, a 15 year plan, got a plan. Um, so I knew I didn't need to do that again. Um, but one of the things that came out of it is that I, I also said, oh, I wanna love every day for what it is. Every day has a certain energy that it brings to you. And I kind of looked at the calendar and went like, okay, my first task was Mondays, Mondays. You dread them, right? That's when the stuff all floods in. Sometimes it starts on Sunday night and I didn't want, I didn't wanna have that feeling on Sunday night, so I go to Sacred Yoga on Sunday night that cures that. Um, but then I sort of started doing this inventory of each of the days of the week and what was the rhythm of the day. And the one day that just sort of seemed to have sort of be in between and sort of be like the, the forgotten middle child was Tuesday. So I said, well, what can I make special about a Tuesday? So it was kind of like this wonderful challenge that I had. It was like, okay, I figured out Wednesday, um, Wednesday's either tighten up day and then truly say I'm over the hump. You know, there's something about that combination. But see, needed something. Um, I think one of the first solutions I came up with, it's spots have night Love that. Yeah. I love that. I love that idea of taking, taking something that doesn't feel special and making it special and it doesn't take much. Doesn't really take much. And now you're looking forward to spa tub Tuesday. Exactly. Yeah. So yeah, that's what it's like on the other side in the empty nest. I love that. I love that. I have been, um, I've been, I've renamed, um, speaking of stories we tell ourselves, right? You were kind of alluding to that earlier. I have renamed, um, menopause, , metamorphosis. Oh yeah. Because, um, really, and just like every time I get a hot flash, I'm like, oh, I'm making more wings like I am. I am trying to really. Because I do, I mean, it's what our bodies naturally do. Like I do believe that there is something on the other side of this for me. Um, and I want it to be big and beautiful and bold and, um, and all the things. And, , so I hope just somebody takes a little nugget out of this first part of our conversation about, you know, reframing, um, these times of life, as a good thing and that there is something juicy on the other side. Yeah, I think, uh, women of our, sort of swath of our cohort, yes, we're into this wonderful, uncharted territory and this is me giving a positive spin of menopause. Um, but it's uncharted territory, which means. The flip side of that, it's yours chart, and the reason that it's really uncharted, it still doesn't get a lot of attention in the medical world. There's still so much that is not even known about us happening to our bodies. I love your metaphor of growing wings, but I think because there is so much out there in the culture that tries to tell us what it is and what it's supposed to be, that we can kind of get, I guess, sort of locked in to accepting the cultural thinking as opposed to breaking out of it. Um, and a part of my questioning of that was I was just sure like, everybody wants me to slow down now. Everybody wants me to leave the stage. I'm like, I'm just getting started. , How could you be asking me to leave the stage when I'm just getting started? Um, but I think that that somewhat follows the trajectory of the male life of their career. It's just you have a 30 year career and then you wind down. And when I noticed when I was editor of the Women's magazine, Sage Magazine, is that all the women we were interviewing were really kicking it from 50 to 60. They were really coming into their own, they were coming into not just leadership positions, but they were coming into their voices and they were really getting some amazing things done. Like not just accomplishments, but legacy stuff. And then this is before I entered my fifties, I had the privilege of, you know, interviewing all those women. I was going like, that's what my fifties are gonna be like. I'm gonna kick it and don't tell me to leave the stage. Yeah, I, I completely agree. Uh, you know, I think there are probably some women at home thinking, am I too old to start writing a book? Am I too old to start a second career? Like, whatever it is. And, and I don't believe that's true at all. Um, I think you're right. I think there is something about this and, um, I think most women are actually just finally finding their footing. And I think that's a part of midlife, that's a part of, you know, uh, empty nesting. Um, and whether you have kids or not, it's a part of this age where you kind of go, oh yeah, this is who I am and this is why I am unique and this is what my purpose is, , and now I'm free, like you said, freedom right Now I'm free to go all in. Yes, right. You're free to do, and you have the wisdom and hopefully you've got, and. More money than you had when you were 17. Um, and I, so I kind of come back, coming back to, you know, my twins at 17, making all those choices. It seems like when you are 17, you can remember when you were 17, didn't it feel like you had so much freedom that just the life was laid out before you? But the truth is, I think 17 year olds feel like they've got to make a choice that sets them up to create the container of life, which is a euphemistic way of saying they've gotta figure out how to make money that's on them. They feel that pressure, maybe even more so, you know, now, because colleges are much more like career factories. Um, but they have with that freedom. But like at a certain point in life you've already figured out. The whole container of your life. Some things may have changed. We, we, maybe we can talk about grief in a bit. Some things start getting stripped away, but you've mostly figured out a career or a career track or an area of talent. You've probably got a house that you're living in. You've probably got a family that you're with, whether you're married or not married or, you know, but you've got those, you've got friends that you've had for decades. So you've got all the, the container of life. And if you have the container of life, you actually now have more freedom to create the next container. You know, from that wisdom, from whatever little bit of money you might have accumulated, you could start new business or you could not worry so much about striking out on a creative endeavor because the risk is lower. Imagine being the 17-year-old who is probably in fear of having to call home and say, mom, can I come live with you for a while? You're not that. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, it, but I didn't know that before. I really didn't. I, I had to just sort of work it out and go through my pain. I call it the dark night of the soul. I really had, I had to turn some things around spiritually. I had to lose my identity. Mm-hmm. I was really losing my identity as an active mother, which felt like losing my identity as a mother. Turns out the other side is mentoring mother, but it just felt like, yeah, this is killing me on the end side. And then I was losing my identity as journalists and I had built my whole life around those two things. And now it's time for my favorite part of the interview because it's inspired by my life tending journal practice. But let me be clear, this is not your grandma's journal. It's more of a growth chart, reflection, diary, planting reminder, observation deck, and research notebook all rolled into one. And when used daily, this journal practice is a life game changer. To produce big, beautiful purpose-filled blooms in any season. Now it's by far the most important tool in my own personal life gardening shed. And I wanna gift you a free journaling template today. So check out the link in show notes, or head over to. Yeah. Is that where complicated grief kind of came, started to come in? Is that a, a part of it? Um, when all of those losses kind of start to accumulate? And it's interesting, you, you list, you listed a lot of things, but sometimes we don't think about those things as actual grief. Yeah. Right. Like, um, most people associate grief with like the loss of a person, right? Like somebody dies and then there's that kind of grief. But, but there are so many other losses, right? Loss of your identity, loss of a job, loss of a, even just a season of your life that, that causes the same feelings, the same detachments and attachments and all of the things. Um, tell me a little bit about your story there. Yeah. Um, I, I guess I think of it as the pile up, I guess accumulated grief is what they, what they call it, but it's really the pile up. Uh, all the unintended things. And I, one of the things I did in balance is that I really sort of fully processed my grief. That was a loss through death. Um, in there at the same time I was looking at all the other griefs, so the loss through death, grief that I processed in there was, my mother had died four years before. But it was like these other things that you talk about come up, like your loss of career and identity and your role or your relationship, you know, configuration as, as mother, active mother, um, all of those things. Also aging, looking at yourself in the mirror and going like, oh, that's, so that's gonna happen. Are we doing that now? Mm-hmm. Do I need to find out what product that helps me not do that? You know, so there's that. Your appearance is changing and menopause makes your, sometimes your body's just doing things that you just don't even recognize. Yeah. So I think your, that, that's all changing at the same time. You might feel pretty stagnant. And for me, I felt like, oh, I've already grieved my mom. You know, I did that. My sister's, I, we did it. We, we got the grief thing down. We, we lost our dad when we were young women. And we thought like, this is just the other one. But it, it's not, when you lose your mother, it's, it's a big deal. But there was something left unintended there. And, and for me, it connected to my own grief about my changing role as a mother. Um, and so it, it really just became more for me, it's time to look at it. It's all coming up, it's piling up. Everything feels like a thousand cuts of the knife here. And everywhere I turn, I'm feeling it. Whether it's I look in the mirror or I wonder what is my career going to be? You know, where will I live Even, um, all of that feels like cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. It's time to look at what the essence of you is, the part that never dies. And so that's where I sort of arrive at Thomas Burton's teaching about the true self. Because you can do the true self no harm. And the true self is the one that is always with you watching over you, um, in your beliefs. See system, you can infuse it with what you will. Maybe, maybe it's the unconditional love of God. Maybe it's angels who watch out for you, but there's always something that is holding that true self, um, sacred and pure. Maybe it's the soul. Um, I sort of end up landing on the unconditional love of God, but there's something in there that cannot be harmed even if you lose a job. Even if you lose a parent, even if you've lost both parents and now you're an orphan, even if your hair color changes. Mm-hmm. Even if you move across the country and you can't find your coffee maker what box that's in for two months, and you have to go without a coffee maker for two months, which happened to me, um, you know, from your material possessions being stripped away to your job, things happening with your body, people in your life, those things actually still do not harm the true self that is in there. So in boundless, I finally arrive at what those two things are. For me, they're words and a voice, and that just seems like, well, those aren't really necessary, tangible things like having a house and a job, car keys, those are tangible things, but. I finally got to that point where we're like, that's enough. Yeah. That's been with me since I was, well, from the very beginning. It was with me when I was 15, when I was 30, when I was 40. You know, just words and a voice. I can work with that. Wow. I love that. Um, I, I live in Texas and I live, um, at, uh, ground zero for the flood that happened on 4th of July and my mom and eight others. Um, and my family survived on the roof. Um, , my mom lost the majority of her possessions and her home. Everybody survived. but this, the town that I live in, it's like population 400. We live right along the river and the water. Stripped away and exposed everything. Um, and the grief that came along with this and the loss and the sadness and the, the loss of my mom's garden that I spent all the time with her in it, and the, you know, the loss of the family home where we gathered and the loss of like, safety, like all of these things, right? But I, I remember the moment where I was like, this exposure, this, this loss actually strips finally has stripped away all the stuff that just don't matter. And, and allow that, that clearness allows you to really get down to exactly that, exactly what you said. Um, you know, , who is the core of who you are, and. I love, I love that little cut, cut, cut, cut. I think I, that's one of those seeds that I'm gonna put in my back pocket and remember, but I think grief like, does, it's stripping you away, right? Like it's, it's, it's saying, okay, you're still okay. Without this, you're still, you yes, it hurts. But, um, I think pruning hurts. Right? and it takes away, um, and reminds you that, yeah. At the core, you know, for me it's, yeah, it's, it's me and me and the Holy Spirit. And, um, , that's really all I need. You can, you can make it from there. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have to have a big grand plan. I don't have to have, you know, a giant house or a whatever, like, whatever. Um. Provision has always been there. Yeah. Um, then always comes up in the morning, and if it doesn't, then I'm somewhere else. Well, I, I learned I was still well taken care of no matter how I was. So the events in the book are just that at some point I, um, my colossal failure of the imagination problem is solved and I'm offered two jobs, um, at really kind of senior level for a woman in print journalism. At that time, it was like. Why weren't those jobs here 10 years ago? I coulda, coulda used that. Um, but I was like, , they come along once every 10 years. So at the same time, my twins are wrapping up, graduating from high school. I've accepted a job across the country in Saratoga Springs, New York. Mm-hmm. All of a sudden it becomes, I'm gonna have the most, most empty nest in America because all three of us are leaving one to Colorado, one to Arizona, and me to New York. Well, I get to New York and three weeks in, that whole thing falls apart. That's my Devil Wears Prada section of the book. Um, but suddenly, you know, I'm in Saratoga Springs. I do still have my home in New Mexico. I'm always gonna rent it out, but it's empty and it's not the same home that I knew as home because it's not gonna be, the twins aren't gonna be in it. but the most logical thing for me to do is just go back home where I have real estate. But what happens while I'm in Saratoga is I start meeting new people. My eyes start to open. I start to realize I can live without a coffee maker, mostly because they have a corick down at the clubhouse of my loft apartment building. And there's a man there who greets me every day and he gives puppy treats to my dog. So I go like, I can even do without a coffee maker. So I start realizing that I'm actually building a life. I've got stepping stones, new friends, and then I've got my old friends are actually knowing how stuck I was, are very inviting. One of them who lived in Phoenix was like, come to Phoenix. You've gotta come to Phoenix. You can't go back to Albuquerque. She says. She knows I'm so stuck. Another friend comes up to Saratoga Springs and we go, we go to the track. I had no idea I'd known this friend for like 25 years. I had no idea she could really hit a hot streak as a horse track. So we have the most fun. And then I actually confessed to her, I might not come back to Albuquerque. I'm thinking about something else. And she doesn't even blink. She goes, she knew I, she either knew me, knew it was coming, or thought it was a perfectly fine idea. Um, so all of a sudden it became destination anywhere. I love that. I love that. Um, is that where. Living boundlessly kind of came to be, um, this idea of, , emotional agility and, and all of that, what does that mean? Now, this is a part of your book, right? Um, what, what does it mean to have, um, emotional agility? Oh, yeah, that's great. Um, it's actually a,, it's a term coined by, um, Susan David who has a book on emotional. Okay. Okay. Covered it. I go like, oh wow. Now I got a name for what I did. This is wonderful. And she puts some science on it, so that also really helped. Um, but it's really about how to not be stuck in your old emotions. Get us stuck, embrace, change and thrive and work in life. She says. Um, so when we get older, I think we lose the capacity for discomfort, you know, such as my 54 days without a coffee maker, you know? Um, but we, we lose that capacity. Say, well, something's wrong here, I gotta shore that back up again. But if you can use your ability to stay with the discomfort. Something new can come along. I mean, every day I was dangling. You know, I mean, imagine the possibilities. Am I going to Providence, Rhode Island? Am I staying in Saratoga Springs? Am I going to to Phoenix, to Denver, to Albuquerque, to Ireland? Imagine having those possibilities sort of both enthrall you and bombard you every morning. And if I'm doing this, how am I getting the money to even actually make it happen? Like what am I doing? But there's something about allowing yourself to sit with that discomfort. And I think there's something about it breaking you. Another thing . That I think helps you regain your emotional agility is turn off your emotional autopilot, which is, if this happens, it is bad. If this happens, I got a big problem to solve. Uh, we get used to doing that. That's part of wisdom, you know, that's why we can mentor our kids 'cause we go like, oh no, I can see that coming. I wanna head that off for you. But we do get into these emotional autopilot sort of moments and if you can notice that you're doing it, our brains get really good at it actually. Um, I have an article that is gonna come up in a a RP magazine in April May issue, and it is about emotional agility. Hmm. It, um, has a little bit from Susan David's book, but another person I interviewed was Lisa Feldman Barrett, how emotions are made. And it's whole science of how those emotions even come to be made in the first place. But the idea there is if you made them, you can unmake them. You can stop reacting the same way. Like you can stretch out the moment between an automatic response, um, or reaction. Um, and. Another response. And that is actually informed by mindfulness, meditation, science, um, which one of my other books is about that. And, and so I've, um, uh, delved into that and, um, to the science of that. I've been a meditator for 20 years, and ironically, my daughter, who's now 26, has become somewhat of an expert about it, even though I was writing that book when she was six and she wasn't paying attention to what I was doing. But somehow or another it just, osmosis or something, something caught her attention. She's actually, she centered some of her research in, um, college for her undergraduate degree around mindfulness, empathy, and compassion. And she started diving into the research of Richie Davidson, who's probably done the most research on how mindfulness changes the brain, the whole neuroscience behind it, and she's quoting stuff back to me and I'm going, oh, that's in my book. You know, so you write that whole idea that, um, you know, our children, what is it? Um, things are caught not taught. Um, you know, she was around it. And, uh, I think we do, we, we plant seeds without realizing it. And that's so fun. I love that for you. Well, actually, when she found out I was interviewing Lisa Feldman Barrett for this R particle, she goes, well, she's the reason I knew. Who to interview because she's back home from college and she's going, mom, I really wanna go hiking with you, but , I need to listen to this podcast for my class. Um, can we listen to the podcast on the way? It's Lisa Feldman Barrett's podcast. So that stayed with me, then dial a few years down the road. Arp is good. The editor Arps going like, is there another expert you could interview? Is there anybody else I knew who to interview? 'cause of her? Yeah. Wow. Um, I, I might have gone off into the woods there, but I think you were asking me like, what's emotional agility? How do you have it? Yeah. Yeah. I think it can you create more space between reaction and response. You could see how you might respond differently. Like a pause. Yes. It's a pause. it's creating little sacred pauses for yourself. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. tell me a little bit more about your book. Like , you went through this adventure, your children go off to college, you go and find yourself in New York. Um, like where did you get to the point where you're like, okay, this is the book I wanna write, and, um, where, where did that all come from? Yeah, I think almost everybody, you know, 'cause I work as a book coach, they always have that, that aha moment where it feels like it's just dropping down into the sky. Yeah. Which is Aha. That's my book. And you can't describe it except you just know it is. And I had that, I thought, um, this is a book and because I, I wrote Moore and Fiction and my MFA in writing is in both disciplines, creative, nonfiction and fiction. So I'm always kind of like traveling between worlds. And I had always thought I want to write Amy Moore. I just didn't know what exactly, I had another idea. And , that other idea actually yielded an essay that got published in fourth genre. Um. 10 years ago, it's called Resurrection and I thought, oh, I'm done. I'm done. I wrote an essay, I'm done. That essay is actually the seed of Boundless. So 10 years ago I had written something, thought I was done. Then these events occur and I go, oh, this is a book. I, I don't know exactly what it is, but I know it's a book. I just do, and I also knew on the front end, and it's going to be painful. It's gonna be really hard to look at it, but to write a great memoir, you have to be vulnerable. Yeah. What surprised you the most when writing it? Like , what was the thing, maybe the hardest or the easiest or the most what, whatever. What surprised you the most? Well, there was a moment when I realized that my question to keep pointing at, you know, the pages I was writing was why? Does this unstitch me the way that it does and I kept thinking like, you know, when you look at this from the outside, you know, lots of people. Big career changes if you have kids. The e empty nest thing built into it, right? Grief is built into a lot of things. You know, it's built into being a child who knows? Your parents will die probably before you do. It's built into being a parent who knows? You'd show up as actually to help them leave you. It's actually built into demerit because let's say you have a good marriage, you do the till death does part thing. One of you is dying before the other. Mm-hmm. And let's say you have a, a marriage that plays out for a time, then it really doesn't have the vitality that it used to, and you both decide to end it. That's a grief too. There's a impermanence all around us. Yeah. Yeah. Um, cause one of my concerns that brought me into it was just the fragility of life, the impermanence. 'cause I was experiencing this sort of turbulent changing of the seasons. Um, and , what I decided , so I think memoir writers have to be just courageous, is I would just keep asking the question to try to figure out why does this unstitch me? Why can't I get over it? Is the sort of super ego voice in my head. That was, that was sort of a behind that. It's like, you know, can't you just get over it? Mm-hmm. And the answer is, I can't get over it. I'm need to be with this pain. I'm gonna discover something if I'm here and if I'm lucky. I will turn it into a work of art. I have a little post on my substack that's, you know, life became art, the writing of Boundless, because at a certain point,, I thank God for the twins. , They have different names , in the book and their real life names. They're really just their middle names, but that's just sort of to have a layer of protection, um, so they can live their lives. Um, but there's a certain point at which it stops even being about me, it stops even being about them. It, it sort of became art. But I couldn't have gotten through all of that if I hadn't just kept asking the question, why does this unstitch me? I think what I knew is if this unst stitches me like this, it's probably unst stitching. The people who are going to read it or they're feeling unstitched and they don't know why and they think they're alone. , They think, oh God, nobody, nobody's going through that. Nobody really understands. Um, I can't even talk to anybody about that. So I just knew if I kept asking that question, it would lead to life becoming that thing that you, you said helps if it just helps one person. Yeah. . It's worth it. Yeah. Uh, I love it. I love it. Um, I also love that you were talking about like just being with the pain and the grief. Right? That's that whole idea of staying with the discomfort and allowing it to. Move through you, but also I think move you right. Um, move you forward in the same, way. Um, and I love that word. I love that question. Why does this unstitch me? I think it's a great journaling question for any of us going through any time. Like whatever we're struggling with, right? Like, why does this unstitch me? Um, and I'm sure you've heard of it, , the five whys method where you just keep asking yourself why five different times, but different ways. So it's, you know, why does the sun stitch me? Because, you know, I'm upset because my mother passed away or whatever it is. Well, why are you upset that your mother passed away? You know, because she was my best friend. And , you keep reframing the why based off the answers. Um, and it's, uh, kinda helps you to dig deeper. Um, but I love starting with this, like, why does this unstitch me? Yeah, meditation teaches you to build up the tolerance for discomfort you could a little bit longer, which means you look at it a little bit deeper. Um, the, the thing that, um, it's now called . . Trait mindfulness. It becomes a personality trait when you meditate over time, it builds up this ability to be doing it, not just when you're doing a sitting meditation session, but just all through your life. It's a trait. Um, and you, you probably, you, unless you were a scientist studying yourself or had someone studying it, you probably wouldn't even notice that. But if you were just sort of regularly having a practice over time, and most of the time, even after 20 some years, my practice is what is gonna be over. When is the bell gonna ring? Oh, I need to take out the trash. No, you don't need to take out the trash now, but you're meditating now. Just sit, just breathe. Just come back to the breath. That's, that's what's going on even after 20 years. But there's something about really the practice of doing it. 'cause there's so many times when you notice your mind is wandered away like a little stray puppy and you bring it back and you go, yeah, I really do not need to be thinking about the weeds in the garden right now. I really do not be, need to be thinking about what's for breakfast. I'm, I'm back, I'm back in the body. One of the ones I use is just let the mind drop into the heart. The mind just wants to do its thing and it wants to keep going. , But just if you just let it drop into the heart, I have picture it just melting when it right there. Then if you do that enough, there are gonna be more and more times when that is just how you show up. To people. It's how you show up for yourself. I guess maybe that question, why does this unstitch me is a question about showing up for yourself after so many years of, not showing up for myself, just pouring myself into everyone else. Um, it's like show I had, maybe I had to get to know myself a little bit more because I was almost a stranger to myself after so many years of working kids and working kids. Yeah. And I, I don't think that there's a woman listening who doesn't feel that in her bones. Right. Um, that's why I do what I do. That's why I help women unlock the life they put on hold while they were tending to everyone and everything else. Right. Um, it's about exactly that. And so this is, this is so good, so good on so many levels. Um, you know, it's interesting. I actually took a screenshot. I was, um, reading some, my, my mother-in-law just passed a few weeks ago. Um, and she struggled with dementia, um, probably maybe Alzheimer's. We never really got her, um, diagnosed. She was too far along at that point, and, but. I was reading some statistics actually about women and even just, um, uh, dementia in general and your brain and how it starts to shut down when we're not, um, doing things that make us uncomfortable. Um, that, that actual discomfort actually helps to regenerate and to create new like neurons and pathways and stuff. And it's actually protect our brain from dementia and Alzheimer's and all of that kind of stuff. So, it's interesting. The very things that we try to shy away from are actually for our good, right. That discomfort is actually for our good. It's actually helping us to heal. It's helping us to be healthy. Um, and that's another story that we can flip on. Its head of. This discomfort is for my good. This, this hard thing is actually, um, helping to, to, to do good things in, in our bodies and our minds and our souls. So, so good. Yeah, go ahead. You mentioned dementia and it makes me think that all this good work we do in midlife to tend to the soil of things and to really sort of stay really kind of agile emotionally, um, is probably a really good way to prepare yourself for old age. I feel like I have, I have friends right now who are, you know, they're looking and they're, they're losing parents to dementia and carry the worry that's gonna happen to me. But I think that there's something about, you know, the opposite of emotional agility is emotional rigidity. Yes. I think there's something about being loose like that, that I think if that's your genetic path, that's your genetic path. But is there a better way to be on that path? Yes, there. I believe there is a better way. And that's actually what the research is showing is that really dementia , um, isn't something that happens to you when you're older. It's actually your midlife that like 30 to 50 when those seeds are sewn. Like it's either, you're either down that path or you're not. And, and a lot of it has to do with that fluidity versus rigidity and doing hard things and teaching yourself and doing things that scare you so that you can fall off all of these parts of your brain and keep them to growing versus like just stagnating. Um, which is interesting, right, , that there really are kind of seasons of our lives that are almost built in to cause that, right. , I mean, it's in that kind of time period that we do have the loss of our children , and things like that, that kind of cause that stirring in us. But to your point, kind of throughout this, like , we get to choose what we do today, right? Um, and tomorrow and the next day. And, um, you know, I, I hope that people listening are, are gonna choose some things that are different, uh, after this, this conversation. This is so good. I love it. I love it. I love it. So good. Um, good. Okay. So is there anything else that we haven't covered that you feel like you want to, um, say or share before we move on to the next part? I'll just have one little piece, which is just, um, and I think this happens to so many women. Um, it's just, it's about self-sufficiency. And I was so good at self-sufficiency. I was so good at keeping all the plates spinning that, and I was also so good at like not showing the chink in the armor, not going like, I actually need help here. And that actually occurred during the writing of the book where I'm describing myself as the mom and you know, like I think I've got this existential angst problem that makes a book, you know, because the twins are leaving and it's two thirds of my family at once. So I think I've got existential angst. My first developmental editor said, we know you're gonna solve the problem. You're so competent. It's clearly you're a high functioning individual on, and I went like. Uh, that is not how I wanna come across. I, you know,, people should be sympathetic to you, hopefully empathetic to you. So I said, oh, then I need to crack open what it is like to be the self-sufficient person. Everybody goes, I know you're gonna solve this, and you go, but I'm on the inside. Lemme just tell you what's going on. The inside of the self-sufficient person. Yes. Yeah. So I wanted to offer that. for me it was one of the, the big ahas of the unraveling during this flood is I, I, internally was combusting so much grief, so much heartache, so much unraveling. And yet. Because I am also hourly, um, self-sufficient. I've got this, I, you know, I'm a life coach. Like, all the things, I was like, why isn't anybody checking on me? It's because I've taught them that I've got this right. Even though internally I did not have it at all. Um, but honestly, I, I think that was another cut for me. Mm-hmm. Of, you know what? I'm, I'm still okay. Even without them checking on me. Like, I think honestly, had they come alongside me in a bigger way, um, I wouldn't have gotten back to that core of like, and even still, I'm okay, even still without. Without that, I'm okay too. Um, so I can see that, that it was good. , But friends, we, teach people, um, how to treat us. If we keep telling them we're okay, and we're okay, and we're okay, um, you know, then they're not gonna think next time that you're not gonna be okay. So sharing and cracking wide open and being honest when somebody says, how are you? Um, you know, that's where we start to connect , in a much deeper way and actually get some of our needs met. So, so good. There's, there's a stretch of boundless that I, it's not actually on the page, but , it's called what I learned by Sleeping Around. And what it means is when I, I finally do decide to come back to Albuquerque and my friends notice that I'm coming back to an empty house, um, I. Don't have an air mattress. I don't have a bed. Um, and it's empty. And , they surmise. It's also not just empty, not functional. It's also pretty sad. So I ended up just having friends who said, you can take two nights with me and you can bring the dog. And then it was two nights here, two nights there, two nights. And all of a sudden, people, I had known for 25 years, I'm sitting at their dinner table with them and just a regular night. And all of a sudden I'm really getting high on this idea of relying on people. I'm getting to know them even deeper because we're sharing a dinner table together after 25 years. And I'm going, this is what it's like to rely on other people. And I, so I kind of got high on that and then I thought, what if I did that on purpose? What would happen if I let myself just rely a little bit over here and a little bit over there with a person? And it's probably something that they're so glad to give. It's easier for them to give. My friend was making taco shells that night. Anyway, I feel like that's your next Ted talk. What I learned by sleeping around. I just think that is brilliant. Um, first of all, but I also love this idea of getting high on the idea of relying on others. Yeah, it's so good. Oh my gosh, that's so good. Okay. This is, yeah, it's exciting end. Yeah. So good. All we gotta end this part on that. Okay. So the next part of the interview are questions that I ask every guest. Um, and the first one is, tell us about the life season you're in, or maybe you just finished or heading into, and how does knowing your season impact the way you live to life today? So let me give you some examples. I'm not necessarily talking about spring, summer, winter, fall, um, but just the time of your life midlife, like, like right now, , um, I actually was just kind of coming out of, um, , a season where I was doing a lot of caretaking and, um, helping my mother through this flood. I'm now in like a. Like a let's go season, um, with also a small bit of grief on the side. Also, we just lost my mother-in-law, so , I'm like, let's go. But with my foot on the break just a little bit, right? Like, I, I still gotta feel these feelings, et cetera. So tell me a little bit about the season of life that you're in, and how does even knowing that, like help you decide your yeses and your nos, et cetera? I'm in a season of creative exploration. Ooh, I love it. It so much fun. You know, there are more books ahead. I'm three quarters done with a memoir because even though I prefer to write fiction, I keep getting pregnant with memoirs. So I've got that and I'm about halfway through a novel. So, so creative exploration that way. Um, lots of travel. Mm-hmm. I'm, uh, the co-founder of the stories and songs retreat, which we're having in Italy this year. And part of that is, well, I think I already told you what, what the exciting part about that was. Italy. Yeah. It's gorgeous. We're bringing stories and songs together. That's invigorating to me. I'm not a songwriter, but I love music. Music is all through my writing. It informs my writing. We have a songwriting instructor who, he does all the songwriting pieces, but, um, the other thing that's creative exploration about that is that it's a business partnership. I'm learning how to ask another person, should we do this? Rather than just, you know, the African proverb, proverb, if you wanna go fast, go alone. If you wanna go far, go together. , I'm learning the go together part. And so that's a creative exploration. At the same time, I'm very aware that this is a season because the twins are 26 and I know what comes up next in the season of their life, and I want them to have the good solid marriage and have the all the yeah. Container of lifestyle when that comes. But there's gonna be a day when there are babies and I wanna hold them. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I'm looking at the season of creative exploration, knowing that seasons morph into new seasons. Um, and so what will I do now? Well, I can just be on fire about it and how will I, you know, let that be a thread that comes through into the season after that. I love that. , I love the idea of kind of looking forward to also inform today, because there are those seasons that we kind of know are coming, like sometimes seasons shift, like out of nowhere, right? Like a death changes things or an injury or, or what a job change or whatever, right? Like those things you don't always have a vision for, but knowing that you're kind of heading into that season allows you to even start doing some prep work, like right. It does inform how you, you're like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go and be creative now. I love that. I love that. So good. Okay. The next question I ask people is, um, do you have any regular practices that help you to live your best well tended life? I heard you say meditating. Of course. That's, that's one of them. Do you have anything else besides that? Hiking. Hiking. I am so committed to hiking and exploring , and I'm really lucky to live in Albuquerque in Mexico. 'cause I, I'm just minutes away from trails. I'm minutes away from the river and then there's all of northern New Mexico with the Hamus Mountains and the Santa Fe mountains and so forth and so on. And I'm in the four corner states. My daughter lives in Colorado. My son lives in Arizona and I love Utah. Um, so infinite exploration, but I'm doing a lot of travel. I've had many retreats in Ireland as well as Italy. So hike a lot when I'm in Ireland, but I also do yoga too. I think those are the two big practices along with meditation, that, um, when I do those, I'm doing life, right? Mm-hmm. I love that. I hope everybody heard that. Like, and it may not be for you hiking, exploration or, you know, uh, yoga or meditation, but, there is a combination, I feel like for every person that says, when, when you're doing those three things or those two things that you know, , that , you're the best version of you, you can possibly be the best well tended version. You know, for me it's when I'm journaling, uh, which is my time with God when I am, uh, moving my body and whatever capacity that looks like, right. Um, uh, you know, those are the, the two things that help me stay centered and stay rooted and true to who I am. Um, if either one of those things has kind of gone aside, then. It's not my best self. So, so good. All right. Um, and then the last thing I ask everybody is to look back on their lives. Um, and tell me about the joy, goodness, and growth that is happening in your life. So this is actually based off of my journal practice where, um, which is inspired by a quote from the Secret Garden. It says, Mary hadn't noticed it before, but she looked up and saw it. And I believe that, um, so many of us are rushing so fast, um, past the, the mirror of our life, right? That we're not seeing that every single day. There's joy, goodness, and growth planted around us. And so this is my, um, my practice of me stopping down and noticing it. Um, and so tell me , um, where are you seeing joy in your life right now? And looking back on the seasons of my life and how that connects in a way. Okay. Yeah. I think it really is in the writing. Mm-hmm. I think I always knew who I was. Um, I look back at me when I was eight. When I was 15. When I was 17, and choosing my college majors, which I chose journalism and creative writing. Um, I look at the things that, you know, I, I often say you look at your 9-year-old genius 'cause your 9-year-old was a genius and knew exactly who you were and what to do. And so I think that. I've always known that joy. And right now I'm living into more of it because, you know, when you're, you know, the 9-year-old genius doesn't know where that's gonna go. The 17-year-old, she's choosing two majors in college, doesn't know where that's gonna go. Um, I can now look back and see where it went. And I had this conversation with my business partner for the SOR and songs retreat. 'cause she was here in Santa Fe this weekend. And I said, look back at the past 15 years and look at what you did with that. And then just say, whoa, what are the next 15 years gonna be? ' But it is the joy. It's the joy of writing that has always powered me forward. It's always given me comfort too. Soulless, soothing. Yeah. My ready when I have grieve. Pain is to tell it to a page. I love that. My remedy for grief is to tell it to the page. It's interesting, one of the, one of the things I did, uh, after the flood, because , the compounding grief, right? Was really tough. Uh, my dad had died two years ago. Then , my mother, um, had breast cancer. Like , we sold our business, like even before the flood and then the flood hit, and then there were so many compounding griefs within the flood. There were so many things I was sad about. And, um, like the garden, the loss of the garden, the loss of the gathering place, the loss of even time with my friends because they were all also dealing with their own losses. And, um, that the only thing that helped me through was. Like literally listing out every grief I could think of. And it was in verbalizing. Yes, I am sad about all of , the flowers that just got destroyed, that my mother and I were gonna be harvesting in the next , 30 days , like, , being able to, give voice to that grief was, it was probably the, the best light I could shine on it in order to help it heal. And so I love that. I love that. Oh my God. I love what you said about like, when you're journaling, \, it's your conversation with God. Yes. And I think I have always felt very, very much so the same thing. I, I've always felt like there's a presence watching what I put on the page. There's something here bearing witness to what's on my mind, what's in my heart, what's aching right now. And I think I've always known who I'm talking to. Mm. There's a presence on the page. Yes. Yeah. Big. I love that. Oh my gosh. Okay. So that's joy. Um, where like, what are you feeling grateful for these days? Like what bits of goodness? , Where are you feeling grateful? I'm healthy. Mm. I'm a breast cancer survivor. It was caught early. My children are healthy, they are thriving. Um, my children had a hard way to go. 'cause you know, from the first chapter of Boundless, you find out , um, that the marriage that I'm in is not gonna last. Um, and so they had a hard way to go. 'cause we got divorced from there too. But here they are, they're 26, they're resilient. Mm-hmm. So I'm very grateful for that. , I helped two good people be in the world. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. And then the last one is about growth. And growth is always the hardest thing to spot, , because it happens in tiny little shoots. But like here recently, like where are you seeing the most growth in your life? Hmm. That's interesting. Or where are you growing or what life lessons are you learning? Yeah. On a personal level, it's probably learning, some things about partnership, about being partners with. Yeah. Um, it's also, I think one of your guests said recently, health is my hobby now. Yes. Can I share that with my, my business partner? And she says, no, it's more important than that. Health is a mission. And I go like, okay. Maybe she was just using the right words for an overachiever, but now Yeah, I was like, hobby feels good to me though. Like, feels like work. Hobby feels like something fun that I could put up. I know I love it, but I feel like that that is causing, actually, it's, it's like leading me into a lot of growth, um, because it's like actually noticing things like when I'm hungry, when I'm full, when I need to move, you know? And there's something really beautiful about just the care of that, oh, there's something here that I, I've been in my mind most of my life that I haven't really been taken too much stock in. I feel like my body is helping me grow. I think there's a faith piece too. Um, part of Promoting Boundless is that a friend arranged , what I call my spiritual book tours through Montana. She took me to various churches, Episcopal Methodist, I think there's a Lutheran, and then there was an ecumenical. And I really delighted in hearing all the spiritual questions that people brought, like after having read my book, and they wanted to contemplate some of the deepest spiritual questions that we have. And I gave them permission to say, oh, I have that question too. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Carolyn, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing with us. Tell people how they can find you, follow you, buy your book, all the things. Yeah, all the things. Well, my website is www.carolynflynn.com. I probably should spell it because you can or you everybody, you can just go to the show notes and her link will be in there too. Good. Because the barista at Starbucks, apparently there are more variations on household, Carolyn than I ever knew. Girl, my name is Carrie. Same thing. It has never been spelled properly my whole life. I just, people are always like, how do you spell it? And I'm like, it doesn't matter. It all says the same. It's still here. So my website, www carolyn.plan.com, but my substack , is good for anybody who's just wanting , to see some things about living Boundlessly or just behind the scenes with a book or anything about memo, more writing. That is Carolyn Flynn dot substack.com. Okay. Can you tell people what Substack is? I'm actually kinda new to even following people on Substack. I, I kind of went down a rabbit hole and somehow landed there. Explain to the people who have, have no idea what you're talking about. What is Substack? it's a place where people have newsletters and you could subscribe to the newsletters that you are interested in and follow those people. It's less noisy than all the other social media places. Mm-hmm. Um, you can get free newsletters or you can decide to pay, you know, $5 a month or some, you know, the less than a latte, the price of less than a latte, um, to follow somebody. And I approach it like a magazine 'cause I was a magazine editor, so I have like headaches there, like my topics or I have, um, a little series on how to, uh, still the inner critic. Mm. And behind the scenes at Boundless, I have Living Boundlessly, which is what we have been talking about today. You know, that kind of thing. , And links to my other little hobbies of things that I write about, which are over a medium. Over a medium. I write about cooking. Because I love to cook and I write about Ireland. I love it. Awesome. Okay. , , it's been an absolutely delight to talk to you. Um, thank you to everyone who has been listening to this podcast today. I sincerely hope that this episode has inspired you today to live Boundlessly in order to live out your best well-attended life. Until next time, everyone. Blessings and blooms. Thank you, Carolyn. Thank you for having me on. Oh my goodness, y'all, that was so good. Don't forget to check the show notes for my favorite Heart Tap moments from this episode. What is a heart tap? Well, whenever I read, listen to a podcast or watch a speaker, I'm always on the lookout for those like headbug heart tap and aha moments. You know what I'm talking about. These are the things that cause your head to Bob, an agreement, the heart, to make that tap. When un much needed word of wisdom comes along or your soul to scream. Aha. That was the word I was looking for. So for each episode, I like to share a few of my heart taps in the show notes with you, but I'm curious, we want. Are your heart tap moments from today's episode. Run on over and direct. Message me your favorite moments, questions, heart taps, and more over at Instagram or Facebook today. And if you are inspired by this episode or maybe learn something new, make sure to share this show with a friend or post about it in your stories. Finally. Could you do one more favor for me today? Will you take a minute and hop on over to Apple Podcast and leave a kind and thoughtful review for the Wellton Vibe podcast? You see, this is how people find us, and every positive review helps to unlock the door for someone else to get in on the matching life. Tending to thank you again for listening and being a part of this well-attended life community. And until next time, y'all blessings and.