Episode 87: Pathways to Inner Peace with Dr. Diane Dreher

In this week's episode of The Well-Tended Life, I'm joined by bestselling author, positive psychology expert, and professor Dr. Diane Dreher for a thoughtful conversation about finding calm in a world that constantly asks us to hurry.

Diane has spent decades studying what helps people thrive, and in this conversation she shares the simple, research-backed practices that can help us feel more grounded, more hopeful, and more connected—even during life's hardest seasons.

We talk about why hope is something we build rather than simply wish for, how nature has the power to restore us, and why embracing uncertainty might actually be the key to experiencing more peace. Along the way, we explore everything from meditation and gratitude to community, joy, and the beautiful lessons we can learn from tending a garden.

If you've been feeling overwhelmed, stretched thin, or longing to slow down, this conversation will remind you that peace isn't something you have to chase. It's something you can cultivate, one small choice at a time.

In this episode, we discuss:

🌿 The difference between reacting to life and intentionally creating it

🌿 Why hope is built through action—not wishful thinking

🌿 How spending time in nature can improve your emotional well-being

🌿 The importance of honoring the season you're in instead of rushing ahead

🌿 Simple practices that help reduce stress and increase resilience

🌿 Why joy deserves a place in your everyday life

A few takeaways you'll want to remember:

💛 Small daily habits have the power to create lasting change.

💛 You don't have to control everything to experience peace.

💛 Every season—even the difficult ones—is growing something within you.

💛 Your inner life deserves just as much care as everything else you tend.

Whether you're navigating change, craving more balance, or simply looking for practical ways to feel more grounded, I think you'll leave this conversation feeling encouraged and reminded that a well-tended life grows one intentional moment at a time.

Connect with Dr. Diane Dreher

Website: dianedreher.com

Books:
Pathways to Inner Peace
Inner Gardening

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Transcript

 Hey, friend. Welcome to the Well Tended Life podcast. Here's what I know: no one accidentally grows a thriving life. Just like a garden, growth takes tending, and every season teaches us something new. That's why in each episode, we're talking with people who have learned to navigate change, overcome challenges, chased meaningful dreams, and have continued to grow through it all. These conversations are filled with encouragement, honesty, wisdom, and practical ways to tend to what matters most. So grab a cup of something to sip on, settle in, and listen up​ . Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Well-Tended Life. I'm your host, Keri Wilt, a speaker, teacher, and life coach who is on a mission to help women , unlock the life they put on hold while they were tending to everyone and everything else but themselves. There is a quiet moment in my great-great-grandmother's book, The Secret Garden, that says this. It says, "He did not walk quickly, but slowly, and his eyes were on the path." And I love that image because it reminds us that life, and especially the journey towards inner peace, isn't meant to be rushed, right? It's something we walk, like step by step, choice by choice, path by path. And in a world that often feels hurried and overwhelming, many of us are looking for a path that leads somewhere different, somewhere calmer, wiser, maybe even more grounded. Today's guest, Dr. Diane Dreher, has spent decades helping people discover exactly that. She is a best-selling author, professor, and positive psychology expert who works, um... whose work explores meaning, resilience, and personal transformation. Her newest book, though, Pathways to Inner Peace, offers practical wisdom and timeless insights to help us find our way back to calm and clarity, even in the midst of life's challenges and chaos. And later in our conversation, though, we'll also talk about another one of her books that of course immediately caught my attention because it's called Inner Gardening, right? Of course, so because the idea that we can tend to our inner lives in a way that we tend to our garden feels so connected to the work we do here at the Well-Tended Life. So I'm excited to get started. Um, let's dig in. Welcome, Diane. Oh, I'm delighted to be here, Keri. Oh my goodness. Well, I gave a very brief high-level introduction of you, but why don't you take a minute and introduce yourself to the audience and kind of give us some background. Go as far back as you need to to kind of explain, like, how did you arrive here? How did you begin this path to what you're doing today? Oh my goodness. Well, um, I began... I, I guess I'm a lifelong learner. Mm-hmm. I'm always discovering. I'm on a journey of discovery, uh, which takes me from one step to the next, one book to the next, and indeed, one career to the next. I've been a college professor, now I'm a positive psychology coach, and I do research in positive psychology. But a long time ago when I was growing up, my father was an Air Force pilot. And we moved all the time. I mean, I was in 10 different schools before I graduated from high school, and that w- that was not because I failed any grades. I mean, that was just what was going on. We kept having to be transferred and moved, so I'd have to leave my friends behind. And, uh, what I discovered was I could read books that g- gave me virtual friends. Go to the local library, check out a book, read the book, and then when we got transferred, the book would be in the next library, so I'd check it out again. I've, I've had many, uh, encounters and, and visits with, uh, Louisa May Alcott's Little Women, for one. And so these people became my virtual friends. And I remember walking around in libraries, looking up the stacks of books thinking, "Someday I'd like to write a book and, and have people come and read it, and, and have that kind of connection too," when I was just in, I think, junior high school. So I, uh, went to, uh, college after, uh, I graduated from high school at Kaiserslautern American High School in Germany, my father was stationed in Germany at the time, and wanted to go to UCLA, that being my dream school for some reason. I just felt like I needed to go to UCLA. So I applied to all these different schools, got accepted, and, uh, was delighted when I was accepted to UCLA. We moved back to California to my father's next assignment at Norton Air Force Base in Southern California, and I was packing up to go to UCLA at the end of the summer. We ... And my mother came into the bedroom and said, "What are you doing?" And I said, "Well, I'm deciding what clothes I wanna take, you know. I'm going to UCLA. In a couple weeks we're gonna be, you know, uh, moving into the dorms and all the rest of that." And she said, "Oh, well, your father and I have talked, and we transferred your, your acceptance from UCLA to UC Riverside," which was , the next town, "so you don't have to go away to college." And, uh, what she thought of as have to was, was, for me, it was want to. I wanted to declare my independence. I wanted to have the college experience. My parents hadn't been to college, so , you know, to their credit, they just didn't know any better. But I was, uh, feeling trapped and depressed, and didn't know anybody in town, so I commuted the first year from Grand Terrace, the suburb where my parents lived, uh, to UC Riverside. And then the next summer I thought, "Okay, I am gonna get a job and I am gonna earn money, and I'm gonna pay for this myself." So I got all these little part-time temp jobs. Was driving home from one temp job down 14th Street in Riverside when all of a sudden this thought just absolutely enveloped me as I drove by the Riverside Press Enterprise newspaper office. And I, " said, "Diane, if you wanna be a writer, you should work there." The inner voice told me. So I pulled into their parking lot, walked into the newsroom as a shy teenager and said, "Hi, I'm Diane Dreher. I'm a writer. I'd like to apply for a job." The reporter told me to go upstairs to the personnel office. I did, filled out some papers, and they said to me, "Our college intern just gave - notice this morning. Can you start work on Monday?" So I had a 20-hour-a-week job that I could work around my class schedule. Uh, I, uh, made enough money to pay for my dorms, books, tuition, everything. And went back to my parents' house, was packing up, and my, my s- my mother said, "What are you doing?" I said, "I'm moving into the dorms at UC Riverside." She said, as she'd said about UCLA, "Oh, we can't afford it." I said, "Don't worry, I've got it all taken care of," and moved out. And as an English major, it was an incredible high to have a job at the local newspaper. I got to go to plays, write reviews, get bylines, write stories, and I learned from the reporters what it means to be a writer, how to get the story, and how to make sure that you've gotten the facts right. And if you made a mistake, they'd have to print a retraction. So it was a commitment to truth and to hard work, and to the adventure of writing and reporting. I then graduated from UC Riverside, and my favorite professor, who had gotten his PhD at UCLA, wrote me a letter of recommendation and I got a full graduate fellowship to UCLA. So sometimes, uh, and then moved up to northern California to teach Renaissance literature and creative writing at Santa Clara University. Sometimes what we think we want, you know, I wanted to go directly to UCLA. Actually, what happened was, was better because- Yeah ... I got this newspaper job, and I learned, I learned how to write, how to report, how to be responsible. Uh, and it, it obviously made me have a lot more confidence in my ability to write. So that was, that was a real adventure and part of my journey. And then I, of course, decided I wanted to write books since I'd, uh, been in the libraries as a young child, and I wanted to share b- my writing with other people so that they could discover things too. Oh, my goodness. And so really, , this is what you've done as a career your whole whole life. I've been a writer my whole life, yeah. I've written different kinds of books. I wrote books about Shakespeare and, and, uh, you know, Renaissance and, uh, medieval gardens, uh, uh, poetry, which we'll talk about more later. Mm-hmm. Um, and then when I was teaching, my students came to me and would tell me their problems. because, like, we had office hours. We were supposed to talk about their papers, but then they'd tell me their problems. And I thought, "Oh, dear,, I need to know what to tell them." I just have a, a degree in Renaissance literature, so I went back to school at night. I'd teach my classes during the day, and then I'd put on my Levi's and casual clothes and go over to the other side of campus and be a graduate s- student in, uh, counseling psychology, and got a master's degree in counseling, ostensibly to help my students. But then what it did was it opened up a whole new area of, of learning and of research for me. And, um, my friend Dave Feldman, who's a counseling psychology PhD, and I published this research study on, on how people can develop hope. And we just did this little study on campus. Taught students, you know, had people write down what they wanted, a goal they wanted to achieve, three steps take to reach their goal, and then an obstacle they might confront with each step. And then, then an alternative step they could take instead. Uh... And then we had them visualize themselves reaching their goal. Well, that was very nice. Uh, but what's happened was this little study, which was published in a, a psychology journal, has been cited and included in over 500 studies around the world because it really works. It really helps to write down a goal, to write down small steps. You know, the Tao Te Ching says, "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." Just one step that I can take. What would get in the way? What could I do instead? And do that three times. And then work on a sense of agency, motivation, belief that you can do it, which, you know, give yourself positive reinforcement, talk to friends, uh, take care of yourself. get enough healthy food, exercise, sleep. Self-care is a very important part of maintaining our motivation. And this works. So now... I just last month gave a big talk , locally about, about hope, which was recorded and is on my website, because we need more hope these days. Mm-hmm. So I'm, I'm interested in learning more about hope and helping people develop hope, especially in these very challenging times. Yeah. You know, and it's interesting. I always tell people that I believe that hope is an action verb. Yes. And, , 'cause I think sometimes people say like, "Well, I hope to do this, and I hope to do that." It, it feels kind of just like loosey-goosey. But when you put the action behind it, um, that's where the real magic happens. Absolutely. Um, hope is not just wishing for something. The, uh, specific psychological definition of hope is, is, is action. It's having a goal, having, uh, steps or pathways, and then having a sense of agency or motivation, the belief that you can do it. And it's to take some kind of action. To just sit around and think about things is not gonna get us anywhere. We need to take that first step. No. And I love, I love what you say though too, because , if somebody did just one of those actions that you talked about, one of those steps, it's still not gonna get you there. It is the combination of all of them. Like, you can write down the steps and you can write down the goal, but if you don't believe- Mm-hmm you can actually achieve that goal, it's, there's no way you're gonna make progress. You're not actually gonna do the steps that you said because you've already, you've tripped yourself up before you've even started You bet. And I bet, you know, we- we're both life coaches, so we probably- Yep ... help our clients set goals, have steps and move forward. And, yeah. Yeah, so I actually, within my practice, I call them seeds. We plant seeds of the thing we wanna grow, and we do exactly ... very similar to what you're talking about. Uh, I have a seed creation sheet where you say, like, what is it, and then I have them brainstorm all of the ways that they could get to that, to that goal, right? Because I also think people set goals without actually thinking them through to- Oh, yeah ... like, what, what are the actual steps to get there? They're like, "I wanna run a marathon," but don't really think about all of the things that are gonna have to happen in order to make that happen. And then they haven't even thought about what season they're in, and is that even Do they even have the capacity to make that happen, right? Um, so I always like, I'm always like, let's think it all the way through. So, um, so that, , um, and then we actually write that seed in our journal every single day to keep it, A, top of mind, to remind our, our reticular activating system, that thing in the back of your brain that says, "Hey, I wanna do this thing," and help it open doors. But, um, we write it every single day as if it's already in full bloom. Because our brains are so smart, right? Like, they believe us when we say, "I am a writer," right? "I am a-" Yep ... uh, all of that. Um, the other thing I have people do when, when, when they're doing those things is , um, to attach their why to it. Why is it they wanna do that? Um, because the resistance is always coming when you wanna set a goal, right? And I feel like when you have, when you have your why, when you know why you're actually doing it, um, it helps you to stand firm when that storm comes and threatens to, you know, knock you off your course. Absolutely. Uh, the sense of purpose is, is really empowering because otherwise we just think, "Oh, it's just poor me," you know, "What can I do?" Mm-hmm. But if we connect to a deep sense of purpose, we are empowered. So big. Okay. Now you said you were a s- positive psychology coach. Tell me what that is. What is a p- I've never heard that before. Okay. Well, I did my coaching, uh, credentialing at Mentor Coach, Which, uh, involves positive psychology research in our training. Okay. So we studied per- hope. We studied, uh, the via character strengths that everybody has, uh, 24 character strengths which are common to all humanity. Regardless of all the, uh, the differences that we have and the discord we have, uh, in this world, , there's an international study done by, uh, Christopher Peterson and Martin Seligman, and a whole lot of other people published in 2004 that said that there are 24 character strengths common to all humanity. We all believe that courage is a strength, that curiosity is a strength, that kindness is a strength, okay? Uh, and, and so on. So Everyone has a, a set of top strengths. We all have all 24, but some of us have, you know, five of these strengths on top, some of us have five other strengths. And to discover our strengths, and there's a viacharacter.org survey that people can take for free. So I have all my clients take it and discover what their top strengths are, and then we use these strengths. Uh, okay, how could you use your strength of perseverance in such and such? How could you use your strength of curiosity in exploring new career possibilities, et cetera? So I use positive psychology research in my coaching that way. Awesome. You know, I think, I think sometimes, uh ... So I, , I'm an Enneagram 7. I am positive by nature. It is in me. my mom will be like, "I came home and all of my plants are dead." And I'll be like, "How exciting. You get to go buy new plants." Right? And she'll be like, "Wait, what?" So it's in my nature, but I think, um, I think sometimes , um, kind of like the whole idea of positivity , has sometimes gotten a bad rap, right? Uh, as if it is somehow, you know, like a Band-Aid that, that doesn't really stick. Um, so can you explain the difference between just, like, toxic positivity and, uh, you know, using your positive psychology? Oh, sure. Uh, toxic positivity is ignoring a problem. It's denial. It's like, you know, uh, "Oh, well, everything's great. You know, it's fine." Um, meanwhile, you know, the person has just lost their job and, and can't pay the rent or something, and really does have a problem. To deny a problem is not to make it better. Yeah. My friend Dave says that . he asks his clients, uh, you know, what questions , they ask themselves when they're confronting, um, an obstacle, a challenge. And if they say, "Why me? Why is this happening to me?" They're stuck. If they say, "What now?" Then they're open to new possibilities. So the what now, , okay, what can I do? You know. Don't deny the, the challenge, but what can I do next? Mm. Uh, and I guess I did that when I walked into the newspaper office, uh, as a teenager and applied for a job. Yeah. Well, and it, it goes back to what we were talking about before, which is it's action, right? Mm-hmm. What can I do, right? There's a whole lot of things we can't control, but, but what can I control in this situation? What, what action can I take? Absolutely. Love that. Okay, let's talk about your new book, okay? It's called The Pathway to Inner Peace, right? Yes. , What inspired you to write this book? Where did this come from? Okay. Well, um, I'd experienced a number of personal losses. My, uh, parents died, uh, and then, uh, one of my best friends passed away, and then during COVID I lost my dear husband Bob. So I was feeling very disconnected, uh, from, you know, from life actually, uh, from everything that I'd known. And even, even just around my neighborhood. A lot of restaurants and coffee shops closed down during COVID. The coffee shop I used to meet my friend Tina for lunch, they closed. Uh, a, a favorite restaurant in town, they closed. So , you know, the world was shifting around us because of COVID, because a lot of us went through, um, some unpleasant changes during COVID. Mm. And then I, then I s- I thought, "Okay, what now?" Right? "What can I do?" Uh, and I realized that I wasn't alone, that our former surgeon general in 2023 said that the United States had an epidemic of loneliness and isolation, which was a hazard to our physical and emotional health. Yeah. And that the, uh- Uncertainty that people face day to day makes people feel very much off balance according to more research. Yeah. And a few months ago, the World Health Organization said that there's a worldwide epidemic - of depression and anxiety. Mm-hmm. So, okay. There are a lot of people who are feeling profoundly disconnected from the world they used to know, from a sense of stability and security, from a sense of connection and community. And I thought, well, okay, , how do we human beings find connection? Where do we find connection? So I started doing research, looked back, and found nine powerful pathways that have been practiced through centuries of spiritual tradition, which have been described by poets and philosophers and which have now been validated by research and psychology and neuroscience. And , you know, they don't take much time, they don't cost anything, uh, and they're accessible, and they're exactly what we can do to help heal the chronic stress and disconnection that I feel really afflicts a lot of us. Mm-hmm. the reason we need to do this is not only personal, because we feel bad when we're disconnected, okay, and under chronic stress, but chronic stress shuts down our higher brain centers and puts us into fight, flight, or freeze. And these three reactions can save our lives in an emergency. They're adaptive. You can jump out of the way of a speeding car. It's okay. Flight is, is helpful in that case. Uh, fight if, you know, if somebody attacks you literally. But what happens when we're under chronic stress is that we perceive everything that happens to us as fight, flight, or freeze. Somebody disagrees with us. Somebody b- has an opposite political point of view, and all of a sudden, fight. That's the enemy. Okay? Or flight. I'm, I'm scared. I'm gonna run away and hide from this because I can't deal with it. Mm-hmm. Or freeze, feeling helpless and hopeless. So these three reactions are, are not helpful for us individually or collectively. In order to be healthy as human beings, we need a sense of active hope, and we can only have that when we've dispelled the chronic stress and gotten back to a sense of, of centeredness and, and peace of mind. Hey friend, if you've been feeling stuck, maybe overwhelmed or disconnected from yourself, or perhaps you're just ready for a change, coaching might be the next right step for you. My coaching style is honest, encouraging, practical, and deeply rooted in the idea that your life deserves tending to. Together, we can work through the real stuff: transitions, purpose, relationships, burnout, boundaries, dreams, or maybe even the patterns that keep you from growing the life you actually want. Because sometimes what we need most is someone willing to walk through the life garden with us. You can learn more about coaching opportunities at keriwilt.com or check the link in the show notes. - Okay. I definitely want to talk about some of these pathways. But before we do, uh, you said something earlier, and I, I always like to question when somebody says, you know, uh, people are stuck in a time of uncertainty. Yeah. 'Cause I remember during COVID and, you know, uh, the media just kept saying, "In these uncertain times, in these uncertain times, uncertain times." And I always just found it so ironic because I'm like, I have yet to live a day where I was certain that something was gonna happen. Like, . there is no such thing as a certain time. It is a s- I feel like it's a story that we're telling ourselves and a ghost that we're chasing Because it's not, it's not real. , I feel like it's our idea that we still wanna control everything. But every day, I mean, what is it? Life happens when you make plans. Like, you know, you know, when you, you know, your plans are always thwarted. Um, and so, uh, anyways, what, what are your thoughts on that? Do you agree with me, or do you think I'm, like, am I crazy for my thought ? No, I, I agree with you wholeheartedly. The reason that we had these three steps - during our HOPE experiment, uh, you know, step one, and then what is an obstacle that could come up, right? Because if you just say, "I am gonna do this, and I'm gonna take this way to get there," and then your way is blocked, what do you do? You give up, you know? And the thing is, we need to recognize that there is uncertainty, there is unpredictability in our world, and to be prepared for it. Yeah. Which is why they have spare tires in cars, and people join the auto club, you know, and, and have insurance and whatever. Uh, because we need to be prepared for the unexpected. But I think that a lot of people develop a sense of security, predictability. You know, my life is predictable. Uh, you plug in your computer, you expect it to go on. You, you uh, you, walk down the street. You expect it to look the same as it did the last time. You get on the freeway to commute and, and, you know, you expect it to be a certain way and to take a certain amount of time to get from , where you are to where you're going. And for sure, at least out here in California, if you get on the freeway, you cannot predict how long it's going to take to get to where you're going because we have something called freeway traffic Which is really intense sometimes and unpredictable. So I have to allow a much extra time. So, uh, but people have developed, I think, a, a sense of habit. they expect things to be a certain way. Mm. And when some of the things that they've been leaning on for their sense of stability get changed, then they get thrown off balance. Yes. Yeah. I, I feel like there's something to when we can embrace the idea of uncertainty, there's freedom in that. Mm-hmm. Um, for sure. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that goes way back to all kinds of Eastern philosophy and Zen- Right ... and Daoism and everything, that, you know, the world is constantly changing. And, uh, my garden is constantly changing. For example, I have roses that I planted, and daffodils that have come up now and, and it's wonderful because they multiply. It's called naturalizing, as you know. Uh, that you plant five daffodils and the next year you might have seven or eight, and the next year you have 15. You know? Now I have tons of them. But I also have some California poppies that just sprang up in my yard. I did not plant them. Okay? These beautiful golden state flower of California. And there they were yesterday, I thought, "Oh, California poppies." Gardening is full of the unexpected, you know? Mm-hmm. We can, we can cultivate the soil. Yeah. We can plant seeds, and sometimes we just get surprised. Yeah. And what, what worked in last season may not work in this season, right? What, what popped up last year, like you said, may not... You know, you may never see those poppies again, you know, ever. Uh, you just , you never know. Um- Mm-hmm ... oh, goodness. Yeah. Well, don't get me started on garden references. We'll Okay. ... Okay. Okay ... because I know you and I go toe-to-toe on this. Okay. Okay. Let's So to, to get back to what we can do- Yeah ... to, uh, pa- pathways to inner peace, there are nine of them. Yeah. Yeah. And one of them is, is mindful presence. The first one. Mm. Because research has shown that most people spend 50% of their time doing one thing while they're thinking about something else. Mm. Now, I'm not doing that right now. Okay. Great. I'm here. But, uh, when we do that, you know, we are not present in the present moment and we miss a lot of things. And, and it also, to have a divided mind like that is stressful. So that takes us, that puts us into chronic stress. So to get out of it is to live in the present moment. Um, and there are things we can do like take three deep mindful breaths, which I learned from, uh, Stanford neurosurgeon Jim Doty, who would do that during complex brain surgery to get really centered so he could, you know, get right in there and, and, uh, in one case stop a patient's brain from bleeding so that he could save his life. Three deep mindful breaths. If it works in brain surgery, it should probably help us with our challenges too. I, let me just tell you, like the minute you said that I was like,... Can you even imagine cutting into somebody's head? I mean, the stress of that, my husband and I, uh, we owned a restaurant and we called it Grape Juice. Uh, it was a wine, uh, wine bar and restaurant, but we called it Grape Juice, um, because my husband's always been in the wine business and, um, we, we always talked about how, like, it, it wasn't brain surgery. Like, nobody's life was gonna be on the line. Like, it was just grape juice. So if he came home and he was stressed about not selling wine or it not getting on a menu or whatever it happened to be, like I'd look at him and I'd go like, "Dude, it's just grape juice, right?" Yeah. Like, we're not doing brain surgery. Like, that was always our... Because I can't imagine having life or death in somebody's hands. And so, yes, you're right. If three deep breaths are good enough for a brain surgery- Listen, imagine how powerful that could be in our lives when, when we're normal. We don't have lives on the line in that, that respect. You bet. And we can do it anywhere. It doesn't cost anything. It doesn't require any special equipment. It just requires our recognition that here's something I can do when I'm feeling really stressed. Mm-hmm. Uh, and, you know, uh, we need to do that because life has been throwing a lot of stress, uh, stimuli at us lately. The second pathway is connecting with nature. Mm. Well now. How do we feel when we're out in nature? Oh, so good. Yeah. Yeah. And there is, there's lots of s- psychological research that shows that connecting with nature can relieve depression. Uh, you know, as well as some pharmaceuticals, which the, the, uh, drug manufacturers don't want us to know. But can you- Yeah ... just step outside and take a walk around your garden and it, it, the fresh air, the exercise, the proximity to growing things. You know, the hope that you, we find looking up at, at the sky or at, at a n- new buds on the tree or something. That does it for us. It- There's a- And I, I, I wanna stop because I, I know that there are a lot of people who don't have access to a yard or, you know, they may live in the city and don't have... Like, even just bringing nature in your home. Mm-hmm. As simple plant. I'm a new plant parent. Uh, like houseplant parent. This is a new thing for my husband and I. I've always had outdoor but I'm in a season where I don't have the capacity. I know I don't have the capacity to tend to the garden outside. And so we have, um, brought some things in our home and it, it really does change your state of mind. Even just walking by a green plant. It's amazing. Absolutely right. And, and again, there are wonderful surprises. Uh, my friend Kaya gave me an orchid plant last year for my birthday, and I've never been really good at growing, you know, orchids. But I got this food that you give them. And sure enough, it's been in my kitchen window for, you know, about a year now. And the other day I noticed it has little buds on it that are going to grow into orchid flowers. I thought, wow. You know uh, so I get my coffee and I look at the orchid plant, and it's like we're, we've got a relationship now. You know, I- Yes ... say good morning to it, you know? Yes. And s- some of my clients, they, they grow herbs in their kitchen window, and they can pinch off some basil or mint or something for their cooking. It's... Or philodendron. And actually, plants purify the air- Mm-hmm ... in our houses. They breathe in what we breathe out. You know, the exchange of carbon dioxide and, and oxygen is yin and yang. You know, it is an ongoing cycle of relationship. So it's good for us physically and emotionally and spiritually to have plants nearby. And there's a, there's a study that blows my mind. Uh, years ago in a Philadelphia hospital, patients had , gotten abdominal surgery, and this was a perfect controlled experiment because they had the same surgery, the same doctors, the same nurses, the same hospital food, the same conditions. Only one group looked out their windows and saw a view of trees, and the other group, uh, patients were on the other side, and they looked out their windows and saw brick walls. Guess which patients needed less pain medication, suffered fewer complications, and were discharged sooner than the rest? Yeah. Just looking at the trees outside. Yeah. There's healing all around us. Um, I actually, um, gosh, it's probably been 10 years ago now, I was diagnosed with Bell's palsy. Uh, and I had a throat virus, and it caused my, um, seventh nerve to die, basically, and I looked like a stroke patient. Mm-hmm. And, um, it turns out that one of the herbs that helps with regeneration actually is planted in my backyard. Like, it naturally grows there. And I just remember - you know, thinking to myself, "How cool is that?" But I think that's kind of how this world is set up. Like, we, we have these tools that were already here before these buildings were here, you know, to help take care of us. Um, sometimes it's a matter of just stepping out into your backyard for, for a little bit of healing, right? How simple is that? We think it has to be complicated and come from the - pharmaceutical company, but sometimes it's a lot more simple. Oh, and Y- you wouldn't know it by looking at me, but I'm, uh, part Native American, and before my German ancestors came to this country, the Drayers, uh, we, they knew these things. You know, they, they lived in harmony with nature. Yeah, yeah. And w- we who came after them, the immigrants, the settlers, could have learned so much from them. Mm-hmm. , Uh, which would have helped us, you know, live in harmony with our planet and be healthier and, and more whole and more, uh, happier, a- actually. But, uh, we didn't, so now we have to learn it for, learn it now. Right. Learn it now. Yeah. I do believe, though, and I may... You tell me if I'm wrong, but I, I do believe that the generations that are coming back are kind of leaning back towards that direction. Um, I, I see it in the younger generation of the, the more natural and, um, you know, less pharmaceuticals and all the things. Yeah, yeah. So I have some hope. I think so too. Yeah. And, and, uh, the people who are listening probably would agree with you, that there is something so inspiring and healing in the green world around us, and we're part of that world. Absolutely. So, the next pathway was, is community and belonging. Mm-hmm. And again, a lot of people lost their sense of community during COVID, but, uh- We need a sense of home. And one of my heroes, I guess, a Czech playwright and, uh, later political leader, Vaclav Havel, said that we're all surrounded by circles of belonging, circles of community. From our very close circle, our, our dear ones, our loved ones, our, our dear friends and family, to our neighbors, to the people in our, in our town, to the people in our state, our country, and ultimately our planet. And that all these circles are important, and it's important to cultivate them. You know, we, like we cultivate the plants in our garden. They don't just happen. If you don't water a plant, you know, it's not gonna make it. If you don't cultivate a, a friendship or a, or a personal connection, it's, it's going to wither away. Well, and I think, I think when we're young, proximity to our friends makes it so easy to make friends, right? Uh, that it almost like, um, makes you think that you don't have to try. But once you're out of college and you're not in those same circles again, you literally do. You have to go out and cultivate and create and find communities of belonging. Um, and, and so I'm glad you said that, 'cause I think most people think, "Oh, why can't I make friends? I used to make friends." Well, it's because you actually have to do the making part. You have to ... Yeah, exactly. When I lived in the dorms, uh, you know, I, I knew all the people in my hall, obviously. Yeah. And we, we ate together because they... the cafeteria was downstairs. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was easy. We'd run into each other all the time. We were in the same classes, a lot of us. Mm-hmm. So , we were thrown together. There's a psychologist, Barbara Fredrickson, who studies, again, positive psychology. Uh, she studies positive emotions. Imagine that. She spends all her time studying positive emotions. And one of the things she's discovered is that , there's something called micro-moments of connectivity, which is just, uh, waving at a neighbor, saying a kind word to the clerk at the grocery store. You know, just a split second like that. And she said, "Well, we've measured this, and these micro-moments of connectivity reduce stress, - reduce inflammation, activate the immune system of both people in just less than a minute interaction." So she said, in addition, these micro-moments of connectivity can spread in a positive ripple effect throughout entire, um, neighborhoods. So I, I thought, wow. I read Fredrickson and, and during COVID and I was walking my dog around the neighborhood and I saw, uh, a, a neighbor drive by in her car, so I waved at her and I said, "This is good for both of us," you know? It is. And yeah. It's now it's a game I play, uh, with myself. If I see somebody, you know, uh, I'll say hi. Uh, and if it's somebody I know, obviously, "Hi, how's it going?" But, but, you know, because we are cultivating connection by doing these little micro moments, and it doesn't, doesn't cost anything and it's good for us, it's good for our health, it's good for them. It's good for all of us. Well, and I think some people fall for that thought that, um, you know, if it's not coffee or lunch with a friend or whatever, that it's not, um, it's not gonna be helpful, right? And what you just said proves that even these tiny little droplets of connection, um, you know, add up and, and are, and are helpful. Yeah. Uh, and in the, in the old days before, I guess before we had cars and freeways, people lived in neighborhoods and communities, and they knew their neighbors. Mm-hmm. And now, uh, my neighborhood doesn't have... When I lived in Kansas in a small town, we all had front porches, and people would sit out on their front porch, and we could walk into town. Uh, I had to because I was a child and I couldn't drive at that point, so I'd walk into town or ride my bike. And I- you'd see the neighbors and you'd just wave at them, you know? Everybody knew everybody. There was a sense of, of community there. And where I currently live, in a lovely neighborhood in Los Gatos, California, um, there are no front porches. There are big two-car garages, uh, at the front of each house, and people come in with their cars, garage door goes up, they go in. You don't see them, unless they have a dog, and if they, you know, all the neighbors with dogs know each other. But, and then s- they reverse that in the morning. They leave and go to work. So, you know, uh, I see garage doors. I don't see, uh, neighbors very often unless, you know, unless we're walking around with our dogs. Yeah. It definitely, uh, there's a book I think called, um, The Turquoise Table. A, a woman did an experiment. She painted a, um, a, uh, a picnic table turquoise and put it in her front yard. Wow. And she sat at it every single day, and as people would wander by, she would invite them to sit on the, the, at the table and talk with her. She had, like, a basket that everybody put their cell phones in and, and it was that idea of, like, exactly what you're talking about. We're no longer front porch people. Uh, be- like, here in Texas, like, everybody has fences, and yeah, we've become back, back porch people, and I think we've definitely lost a sense of, of connection in that. So, uh, I can't wait. I'm, I'm ready to make this a game too. I'm like, yes, let's li- let's go get some micro connections out there. Uh. It really helps. Yeah. By the way, I lived in Los Gatos too. What? I know. I can't believe you just said that. I literally was like, "Oh my gosh." So right out of college, um, I had no idea what I wanted to be. Um, uh, but I knew what I didn't wanna do, and somebody offered me a job in Fremont, California, which is just up the road. Mm-hmm. And I actually, um, uh, I... First of all, I'm just a little Texas girl and, um, nobody explained to me that there was a cost of living difference between Texas and California. Not at all. Like, I was like, "You're gonna pay me how much to work in California? This is so great." Not realizing that I truly, like, I lived on 32 cent cans of Campbell's soup three times a day, and I still couldn't pay my rent. Uh, but I loved that community. I loved... , um, it was the first and only time that I lived by myself, um, and, like, was totally self-sufficient, all the things, and it was such a great, um, experience for me. But I, I loved Los Gatos, um, and uh, it, it has my heart. I only stayed for about 11 months because that was... The 11-month mark was when I had to call my dad and say, "Okay, today's the day." And he was like, "What do you mean? What's today?" Wow. I was like, "Today's the day. I can either eat or I can pay my rent. I can't do both." Yeah. Yeah. And I don't really like my job, and so I think I'm gonna come back home to Texas and, uh- Yeah so anyways. The, the, you know, the job, the, the cost of living is really bad when I, you know... I remember subsisting on ramen noodles, uh, you know, for, for a while. Yeah. But I loved it. Yeah. Okay, so we've got mindful presence, nature, community and belonging. What's number four? Meditation. Mm-hmm. And again, there, there are many forms of meditation in most spiritual traditions that I'm aware of. And essentially, uh, you know- Find one that works. I meditate every morning actually, ... But during the day we can breathe out whatever we wanna breathe out, and we can breathe in peace. You just pause. The HeartMath Institute people up in Boulder Creek, which is a little bit down the road from Los Gatos, uh, through the Santa Cruz Mountains, they, they found that if you put your hand on your heart and you just take a deep, mindful breath, that that can be a mini meditation that can, you know, again, return us to a state of, of peace. Well, and I think, you tell me if I'm wrong, but most people don't meditate because they think they have to be quiet, that they have to clear their mind. And when all the thoughts continue to come in, they think they're doing it wrong or they just can't do it. Can you give us, like, a little... Besides just the breathing, , what does your meditation look like? Okay. Well, I do something called passage meditation. So I've memorized some spiritual passages, like the Prayer of Saint Francis of Assisi, Lord, make me an instrument of Thy peace, you know, and just go through it slowly, focusing on the passage, which keeps a lot of the intrusive thoughts from coming in because I'm focusing on the passage and just slowly. But when the intrusive thoughts come in, and they will, that's just how our minds work. Uh, one of my friends said, "Oh, that's like reps when you're, when you're doing weightlifting, you know, uh, in the gym." That's, that's a form, that's part of the meditation, is c- getting back to your breath if it's a breathing meditation, the passage if it's a passage meditation, you know, uh, to come back to center, and that that's, that's part of the process. That does not mean you're failing at meditation. That means you're doing meditation. Mm. And you don't need to sit in any kind of a advanced, uh, posture. You don't need any special equipment. Again, you can just sit in a chair or on the floor or lie down, as long as you don't go to sleep, uh, unless you're really tired and that's what you need. Know. But . I love passage meditation because it, it helps me focus, and the passages that I've, I've chosen are very inspiring. I love that. I've never heard of a passage meditation before. Um, so that's definitely, uh, something I'm gonna put into my back pocket. Okay, well, we don't wanna give everybody every single one. So if you could, if you could share one more, um, which one would it be? Okay. Uh, my goodness. Um- Like picking your favorite child, right? My favorite, okay. . There's kindness, purpose, intuition, the arts, and the final one, number nine, is joy. Mm-hmm. And joy lights up our lives and sometimes people feel like, "Oh, there's so much going on in the world, I shouldn't, you know, have fun. Only children have fun, you know? Uh, I'm an adult. I have serious responsibilities. I'm an adult woman and I've gotta take care of all, everybody else." Yeah. Uh, and all... Uh, yeah, right? You have to earn- We all- You have to earn joy. I hear that a lot in my practice. Yeah. Yeah. I get joy when, when I finish the laundry, when I finish my, my work, whatever it happens to be. Yeah. Instead of putting joy, a moment of joy, a, a joyful practice into our days. My friend Kathryn Goetzke, who, uh, is a hope researcher and advocate, says happiness habits, we need to cultivate happiness habits on a regular basis because that's a way of building hope. Yes. So what do, what do you do every day that brings you a sense of joy? And it's, it's like taking vitamins. It's good, something we do that's good for us, and we need to... It's, it's self-care, but it enables us, like, a- again, according to Barbara Fredrickson's research, when we experience joy, everything works better. Our bodies are healthier. Our minds are open to new possibilities, broadens and builds our capacity for resourcefulness and resilience, and new creative insights. So why don't we enable ourselves or allow ourselves to cultivate joy on a daily basis, and to do something not because it's useful, but simply because it brings us joy? Yes. Yes. I recently, uh, in the last few years, um, I started doing what's called zen embroidery, and it is just a tiny little small circle of embroidery that has no pattern and no purpose except for to bring me joy. I am not giving it away. I am not selling it. I am doing nothing except for spending time doing it because, because the colors bring me joy, the, the way it comes together, all of the things. Um, and , it's the fact that it doesn't have a purpose that brings me the most joy, I don't think I would've ever been able to say that before. Um, but there's freedom in it. I can just- Oh, yeah ... I can just do it because. And anytime anybody's like, "What are you making? What are you making it for?" I'm like, "For my joy." I'm making it- Yeah. It, it makes- It's- ... me joy ... exactly. I mean, I play the piano, not very well, uh, because, you know, we moved a lot and it was hard to have a piano, uh, if your father's being transferred all the time. So I didn't take up the piano until I was much older. But it's fun. Yeah. You know, I love the feeling of making the music, you know, , and, and feeling the music flow through my body, and it's also kind of a meditative practice as , uh, the needlepoint, this, you know, embroidery would be, because , you're part of the process. You know, you're, you're one with the process. And when my mind wanders, I hit a foul note on the piano, and I know it. And I come back and, you know, it's like a meditation. Okay, come back to the practice. But it's, it's just fun. Uh, we, we need moments of joy, moments of beauty in our lives on a daily basis to maintain , the light in our lives. And I truly believe that joy is planted around us every single day, and that we have to cultivate the eyes to see it. And it's a part of the journaling practice that I teach where every day you look back to spot the joy, goodness, and growth that happened the day before. And we'll be talking about that a little bit later. But I am, like, 100% on board with this joy thing. I think it's so important, and it's even so important when I teach about goals, which we were talking about earlier. Um, and I was saying, you know, I, I love for people to attach their why, like why are they doing it. And I always have to remind women that, like, , if the only why is because it brings you joy, that's all you need. . If it brings you joy, that is the best why you could have. I totally agree. Love it, love it, love it. Okay. Uh, what do you hope somebody does differently after they've read your book? Like, what's the one thing you want them to take away, or wh- what are you hoping? Okay. What I'm hoping is that people read the book and realize that there are things that they can do. They can take charge of their lives. That there are these two words that... If, if we had a blackboard here, I'd write down reactive, which means we're reacting to externals. Uh, we are reacting to externals usually with chronic stress, okay? Or with a sense of obligation and duty. And then there's creative, which has the same letters in that word. Oh, yeah. Just you move, you move the C to the front of the word, it becomes creative. Um, when we're creative and not reactive, we're taking charge of our lives. We're choosing where we're going to put our attention and our energy, what brings us a sense of joy. And we can,, we always have a choice. That's, uh ... Oh, gosh. Again, one of my other heroes was Victor Frankl, who realized this point in the Nazi concentration camp during World War II. he affirmed that no matter what happens in our lives- No matter what life brings us, we have what he called the last of the human freedoms that no one can take from us, the freedom to choose our attitude, to choose how we will respond in any given set of circumstances, to choose our own way. We have that power of choice, and it's easy to forget that with all the advertisements and the political propaganda, news, et cetera, that comes at us, with all the demands and expectations externally placed upon us. But each of us is in charge of how we create our own lives. Yes. Yes. Um, which for me leads us right into, um, your Inner Gardening book, because I always tell people that, you know, you are the master gardener of your life. You get to choose what you plant. You get to choose what you water. You get to choose , you know, you know, how many weeds you step over and trip over be- ... take care of them. Like, these are your choices. This is your life and your life garden. Um, and so I'm so curious about, um, your earlier book, Inner Gardening. Um, tell me about kind of where that came from and, um, a little bit about that book. Okay. Well, this book came from a couple of different sources. Uh, I've studied Renaissance literature, of course, at UCLA, and done research on it. And , from the Middle Ages through the Renaissance, there were all these poets who believed that gardens are a source of spiritual, you know, inspiration. Mm. That they would go walking in the garden, Andrew Marvell, Thomas Traherne, you know, and then later Wordsworth, and, you know, uh, in America, obviously Emerson and Thoreau. There was this deep sense of connection, spiritual teaching that comes from being in, in touch with nature. And literally, uh, for the, uh, people in the Renaissance and the Middle Ages, it was gardening that was a spiritual practice, that what we do around us to the gardens we're also cultivating within us. Mm, mm. So that we learn from that process of cultivation. So, uh, I was doing this research, and then Bob and I moved into this beautiful house in Los Gatos, , uh, where we went to the open house. And Betty Johnson, who was the owner of the house at the time, and Harold, her husband, who was an artist- Took us walking around and they had beautiful gardens, you know? Roses out front, uh, and then, you know, in the springtime all kinds of bulbs would come up and whatever. We didn't see them. We, at, at that time we saw the roses and I said, "Oh my gosh, this is absolutely gorgeous." And then, you know, the whole backyard is surrounded by all these trees. It's this green cathedral, my friend Tracy would call it. So I said, "This is fantastic," and I said, "Are you going to have a, you know, a, , an official open house?" And she said, "Oh no, we don't want any strangers coming in our house and our gardens." And I thought, "What does she think I am?" Well, um, they were very happy to sell us their house. They moved to Sacramento. And when we moved in, there was a bottle of champagne in the refrigerator, and, uh, rose food on the counter for the roses, with extended directions on how to take care of the roses. Because she felt like she couldn't just release her garden to just anybody, you know? Yeah. It was, it was... Her garden was, was a work of love, and you don't just abandon something like that. Mm-hmm. So I thought, here I am, taking care of Betty's garden, and I, you know, was discovering all these new things. So my, uh, my studies, and also my actual cultivation and appreciation of Betty's garden inspired me to write this book. And I, It goes through a whole year in the garden, you know, uh,- all the seasons, and what, what the, uh, tasks and the discoveries and the possibilities are in each season. Um, the season of springtime. But the season of winter is an important season, because that's when we pause and reflect, and, and look at seed catalogs and think about, you know, what went well in the garden last year, what we can change, you know, making plans and reflecting. So it's a season of contemplation and reflection. But there are also kind of fun lessons that I learned, and I was looking at the book, and one of the practices... I got a compost bin, uh, and would put things in it, and I thought, "This is amazing." You put all these grass clippings and leaves and old, you know, uh, vegetable parings and all that from the kitchen, some old vegetables that had gone bad in the refrigerator, and just throw them into the compost pile. And then what comes out at the end is what looks like potting soil. It's amazing. It's a transformation. So I, I thought, okay, we can compost not only, you know, literally, but personally, uh, anything that we want to, uh, transform. If there's a, an old habit we wanna break, or patterns we've outgrown, or, uh, a negative experience that we dwell on, anything, we can compost it. So I had, in my book I said, "You can take out a- a small piece of paper, a three by five card, and write down what you wanna compost. And then have that card in front of you and say, "\- I've composted," whatever it is, you know? This old habit. Right. Uh, you know, and, uh, every, every day for a month, look at that and, and, you know, and first thing in the morning and say, "Okay, I'm composting that." And then when you find yourself falling back into the old pattern, you can say, "No, I've composted that." At the end of 30 days, you can actually r- rip up this piece of paper, throw it in the composter, bury it in the ground, and literally compost it, and it goes back into the soil. So we can compost things in our lives that we wanna get rid of, that we wanna transform into something good, something useful, some good potting soil, uh, just like we can use compost for, you know, our gardens. I, I love that. I love that. Uh, I teach a, a small composting, um, idea with my journaling as well. Um, my journal practice is very purposeful. It's read, reflect, weed, seed, and water. But sometimes when you sit down to journal, probably even meditate, would it be a good- Mm-hmm ... time to also con- compost before you do that, is, um, you come with all of this stuff on your brain, right? Yeah. And just, like, floating out there, whether it's a to-do list or, like, you're mad at the, the traffic or whatever it is. And so I always say, like, if you ever come to your journal, and you feel that, you can't seem to shake it, like, get out a page and literally just, like, write it all down. Like- Yep ... write it all down, just, like, word vomit it all out, but then look back through and see, did any gems kind of stand out? Like, , was there any good, positive things that maybe you can keep? And so I have them circle that, and then I have them mark through all of the rest to physically, same thing, like, physically compound it, compost it. And, um, but then you can carry the, still carry those things forward, 'cause even in the, even in the, the, the releasing of it all, there's always some little nugget in there of clarity and, um, when you're, when you're letting it all go, it's... I, I love that. I love that. That's fantastic. You know what you do is, uh, what this Texas psychologist, Jamie Pennebaker, talks about. Uh, and he's a therapist. He's a psychologist, and he said- To write down something that you're upset about and, and to process it that way is as good as going to therapy whi- which is sa- saying a lot for somebody who's a therapist. Yeah. Okay? You- Yeah ... but, but it, it is a way of processing it, and he's got all kinds of research that validates exactly what you do- Yeah with your clients. That's fantastic. I love that. I also love that your book goes through all of the seasons and kinda takes you through all of that, 'cause I do think, um, seasonal work is important, um, for sure, and understanding even what season you are in. And we're gonna be talking about that here in a minute. But it was interesting 'cause you were talking about how winter is, in a garden specifically, right, it's a time for reflection. It's like looking back, what grew well, what didn't grow well, right? Mm-hmm. Pausing and all the thing. But yet society says that winter is the time where we're supposed to start our New Year's resolutions, and we're supposed to go, go, go, go, right? Like, everybody's like hit the ground running in January. And The absurdity of that always is so front of mind in January to me. Like, no, no, no, nature is resting. Nature is pausing. Why are we going against nature, um, you know, just because of a calendar date? Like, that doesn't make any sense. Absolutely. We are such a, you know, uh, to get back to, uh, yin and yang, you know, yang culture. Go, go, go. Action, action, action. Not enough yin, not enough inner time. There's a, a philosopher, W. Edwards Deming, who after World War II ... you know, tried to tell people in, in American manufacturing that ... there are four different stages, you know. That you plan, you build, , you harvest, you, you know, complete the job. And then you contemplate, you know, the season of winter. and so that you can , you know, learn from what you've done and then plan, you know, to do something, improve it the next time you plant the seeds. And so he, he went to Detroit and talked to the auto people and said, "You know, you ,do this," and they said, "This is No, we're not gonna do that. We're ... We got a same engine in the car. We'll just put new fins on the car, you know? It ... We don't wanna go through all that trouble of planning." The season four, the season of, of winter, meant nothing to them. They just wanted to go, go, go. Crank it out. So he went to Japan where with the wisdom of the East they recognized that there is- Yeah there is wisdom in that, in, in yin and, you know. , And they started- learning from their experience, creating cars that got better gas mileage than the American and European cars because they, they, they kept learning from the experience, making small adjustments before the next cycle began. So then we have Detroit competing against the, uh, you know, better mileage, uh, Japanese cars because they learned about the cycle of the seasons. Mm. And that, you know, in, uh, universities, they, they have something called a sabbatical, where every so often professors can take- Right ... uh, time off to go off and to do research and to reflect. Because they feel like , that's an investment in the future, and they will come back wiser and, and more, more effective, more productive. But most of, most of the places in our country are still go, go, go. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and I think that, you know, that keeps us in that fight, flight, or freeze, right? Yep. Um, you know, if we don't slow down and pause and take some, some lessons from, from the garden, and the , pathway to peace, right, um, you know, we, we will break down, uh, just like those cars probably did that didn't- Yes ... uh, with, with extra rest in between. Oh my God. Yeah. We, we all need that. And, and again, uh, at one point I was walking down the hall, uh, and said, you know, during finals I guess, my colleagues were busy grading papers, and one of them said, "Oh, I only got six hours of sleep last night." And another colleague said, "I only got four," like they were bragging about it. Another colleague walked by and said, "I didn't go to sleep at all. I spent all night grading papers." And I thought, they're bragging about- Yeah. how much they're suffering, you know? I mean, we need to- Productivity is praised. Yeah. But, but we cannot be that productive if our brains are exhausted, you know? Yeah. It's not sustainable, right? Which is, you know, the biggest part. .. You can do that in short periods of time, but it's not sustainable. Eventually you'll, you'll be forced to rest. Yeah. Right. Uh, again, uh, my boyfriend in college apparently stayed up all night studying, uh, before a big exam, and guess what he didn't do very well on? You know, because now the neuroscientists realize that we need to sleep in order to store memories. Mm. So you can read a bunch of stuff and take notes, but if you don't then follow it by sleep, your brain doesn't store those memories. So he went in there thinking he, he knew it all, and he did not. That's amazing. Amazing. Sleep is so important, and I think it's, gets a bad rap. ... People are not taking the time to rest and reset. Um, I mean, our whole physical systems have, have a, a shut down and restart, you know, mechanisms or whatever to flush things out and to process through. And, if we don't sleep, it's not getting to do its job, ... So then it's all working, you know, with not, not the, uh, not the energy that it needs either. That's right. So again, we, we need to recognize the importance of the season of winter, uh, a season for, for R&R, rest and renewal, you know? Yeah. Uh, and that that's not being lazy. You know, we, we ... No. It's being wise. And now it's time for my favorite part of the interview, because these next questions are inspired by my life tending practice. What is a life tending practice, you ask? Well, I've laid it all out for you in Life Tending Made Simple. It's my foundational course that's built around my simple five-step practice that's designed to help you slow down, clear mental clutter, notice what's really going on in your life, and intentionally tend to what matters most. It's not about becoming perfect. It's about becoming more aware, more rooted, and more intentional in your life, one step at a time. And for a limited time this summer, this course is on sale, making it even easier to say yes to you. So if today's conversation stirs something in you, this is a beautiful place to begin. You can learn more about Life Tending Made Simple at kariewilt.com or check for the link in the show notes. . Seriously, Diane, this has been so fun. I can't believe we are getting to the end of this conversation. Um, is there anything else that you wanna share that's on your heart that we have not discussed so far before we move on to the next part? No. This was, um, very, very, uh, inspiring conversation, and, and I don't think I could have anything to add at this point- Oh ... other than to just encourage everybody to honor their seasons, and to recognize that a, a contemplative season is an important season. It is. It is, it is, it is. And it doesn't have to align with the actual seasons too. Sometimes your season, you know, you may be in a spring season, but it's January for you. Um, and- Yeah ... maybe you may take a whole year in need of contemplation for that whole year. You know, it, it, it really, um, it depends on each person. It's gonna look differently on each person, so. Yes. Okay. Well, speaking of seasons, um, it's one of the questions that I ask all of my guests, because if people ask me, you know, "What do you think, what's the best thing someone can do to start living their, their best well-tended life now?" To me it's know your season and understand what you have a capacity for in that season. ... You know, so give us an example of, like, what kind of season are you in right now, and how does that inform how you act today? Okay. Um, I would say that I'm in a season of early spring, that I've, uh, emerged from a season of winter and contemplation, uh, and, uh, a, a need for renewal. And what, what some of my challenges are is that I've got all kinds of new activities and new possibilities springing up all over my life's garden, and I need to, uh... Just like you can, you can have overcrowded gardens and that the plants don't do too well, th- th- that there needs to be a certain amount of thinning out. I need to make wiser choices and say, "Do I really need to do this now?" And it's not that they're weeds. No. You know, weeds are easy to recognize in my life. This is an unproductive plant. - Not really, uh, doing anything, uh, useful and, and sustaining for me. But just too much of a good thing can sometimes not be a good thing. Yeah. So to, to, to, to, uh, recognize that I can choose to plant this activity, and then I need to have open space between that and the next activity. Yes. Open space is so important. Uh, you know, it also... Having open space in our lives sometimes feels empty, but I always, like, remind myself when I do have open parts in my calendar, in my life, that, like, I'm saving that for that, like, unexpected yes. That unexpected invitation from a friend that wants to go, whatever, to Mexico or, or whatever. If I don't leave some space... Or wants to have an impromptu lunch, right? If I don't have that extra space built in, um, I don't get to say yes to those things. I have to say no to everything. Absolutely. Love that. Okay. The next one is, um, do you have any regular practices that you do that might help us to live our best well-tended lives? Okay. One of my favorite practices is a gratitude practice, and Robert Emmons from, uh, UC Davis has done all this research on gratitude, and he says that, you know, at the end of the day, to write down three things you're grateful for will help, uh, create a more positive outlook. It's- it relieves stress. Does all kinds of good things. I actually, I do that at the end of the day, but I also, when I open the blinds each morning and look out at the world, I give thanks for another beautiful day. Mm. Whether the day is rainy, foggy, overcast, sunny, whatever, it's another beautiful day - to give thanks. And then from time to time, I'll look around and just give thanks for the beauty of the trees outside my windows or, you know, a, a contact with a- dear friend or, or something, uh, an unexpected happy, uh, experience that, I've heard from somebody. One of my friends from high school, would you believe, uh It's very hard for me to have friends because of all the moving, uh, when I was younger. Now I have friends who we all live in the same place. This, uh, and we don't get transferred as often. But my friend Anne sent me a card, uh, a congratulation card for my new puppy, and it was just so thoughtful, and I thought, "Okay, I am grateful that my friends Anne and Rudy, that I knew in high school many years ago, are still in touch, and we meet on Zoom from time to time, and we give each other moral support and tell each other our stories and share our lives and sometimes share recipes. And I'm grateful for, for the friendships in my life and from, from hearing from friends." So I, do a gratitude practice many times a day. Love it. Well, that's gonna lead us right into my next question, uh, which comes from my journaling practice. As I said, um, every day... Part of it is to reflect back on the day before to spot the joy, goodness, and growth that was there because I believe those things are planted around us. Um, and there's a quote from The Secret Garden. It says, "Mary hadn't noticed it before, but she looked up and saw it." Um- Mm-hmm ... this practice, I believe, helps people look up and see it. And so tell me, where have you been spotting joy in your life lately? what's bringing you joy these days? The new flowers in my garden, that there are buds on the roses. I mean, they, you know, they were all pruned back. And, uh, the first time, uh, I pruned my roses, I thought, "Well, I've, now I've killed them," you know? Terrible. But, uh, now I realize that they need that, you know? Yes. Uh, and that here they are, they have leaves on them, and yes, this week they have buds on them, so next week we're gonna have roses. Okay? I... Yeah. That's it, you know? So good. I just spotted my first wildflowers, um, uh, on my drive, uh, to go get my hair cut this morning, and I was just, I was almost giddy. We had a big rainstorm last night, and so everything just felt, like, extra green. And then when I saw those little heads of color start to pop up, I'm just, I'm so ready. Um, here in Texas, um, Lady Bird Johnson, uh, planted wildflowers, uh, all along the highways, and , it really is spectacular and magical, um, here in the spring. And I'm, I'm super grateful for this season. What a gift that she, she gave to the people of Texas. I mean, that's just so fantastic. It's so cool. Y'all have super blooms- Wildflowers ... right? You, you all have, like, super blooms and stuff like that that happen in California? I've heard of that before. In, in some areas, yeah. I mean, not so, not so much in Los Gatos. No. But one time, something really amazing happened. A California poppy sprang up in a crack in my driveway, and I had to be very careful when I put my car in the garage because I didn't wanna run over it. And I took a picture of it. Here's this California poppy that was coming up through a crack in the, in the cement in the driveway. And I thought, "What a symbol that is," you know? Yeah. If it can grow there, what can I grow through, right? Right. Exactly. You know, um- Oh, my gosh ... here, this, this was not some sort of nice, cultivated, you know, part of the garden. No. But it had the, the strength. Mm. And I guess the positivity and the, you know, energy to say, "I'm gonna grow right here." Coming through it. I love it. Okay, the second one is goodness, and this is the goodness for which you're feeling grateful for. So this is the thing that you would write in a gratitude journal. This is my form of c- of gratitude practice. What is one thing that you're feeling grateful for these days? Okay. Uh, I'm feeling grateful for an email that I got at the end of last week about, about research that I'd done about 15 years ago on how people can find a sense of calling in their lives, a sense of meaning and purpose. And I worked with a colleague at Santa Clara and some students, and we came up with something called the Vocation Identity Questionnaire. Published it in a, you know, psychological journal, and didn't hear any- anything about it. You know, it just, it got published and there it was, and , that was fine. A woman named Masha in Ukraine, who's getting her master's degree, wrote an email asking if she could translate my questionnaire into Ukrainian and use it in her research. And I said, "Oh my gosh. With all, you know, that the governments are doing and the discord in the world, here's this beautiful..." You know, I had no idea that, that this little research that I was doing at the time was gonna reach somebody in Ukraine and help her with her master's degree. And so I wrote back to her and said, "Oh, of course I'm honored that you want to use this. Please keep me posted on your research. And I need to tell you that I have a Ukrainian flag flying outside my front door, because I have a lot of respect and admiration for the resilience and the courage of the people of Ukraine. And bless you," and I, "Slava Ukraini," I signed off. Well, then she wrote back and said, "Oh, it touched my heart, your email. Thank you so much." And I thought, "Okay, how would that feel?" Here she is in Ukraine, which is not a very peaceful place these days. Okay. Uh, trying to get her master's degree, and here's this person and this professor in the United States in, in California who actually cares about her, not just in terms of research, but in terms of, of, of what unites us all as human beings. So that was, that was an example of the goodness, I think, - That exists beneath the surface of the tumult and the discord and the, uh, misunderstandings that too often divide us 100%. And I think it's also a great reminder that you, um... Our job is to plant seeds, and we don't always know how that they're gonna grow. And so you planted those words on that paper and had no idea that it would, um, be blooming all the way in Ukraine in the way that it is, right? Um, I,... I think about that a lot with my great-great-grandmother Frances, who wrote The Secret Garden, of just that, you know, she had no idea when she planted these words, uh, you know, on the page how they would inspire people for generations. Um, even within her own, you know, she inspired people like, um, uh, Helen Keller and President- Wow ... and things like that, right? Like, you just, you never know, um, that even the words that you plant in when you, when you do those um, you know, micro actions of, you know, saying hello, connections, micro connections, right? The, the words that you plant into the person checking you out at the grocery store, y- we just, we don't know, right? So we plant kindness anyways and good things and leave, leave the rest to, to nature and, um, and energy and, and let it carry it forward, and it's so good. So good. Okay. The last one is growth. Um, uh, I think growth is always the hardest thing to spot because growth happens in tiny little shoots, right? Um, but, um, but I think we always need to be looking out for growth. My, um, friend's father used to say, "You can't expect what you don't inspect." And so if we don't see growth and we're trying to grow something, then we need to adjust our watering and, and, and how we're putting any energy towards things. But where are you seeing growth in your life? Where are you, where are you finding life lessons, or where, where are you growing, um, at this time? Okay. Um, that's a, a beautiful question and actually- What I used to do was make very detailed lists of what I was going to do, and, you know, plan everything out. And what I'm learning now is growth is setting intentions, but not specific goals, not demands. Because sometimes I'll set an intention and then just slow down and listen to my intuition, to inner guidance, and the, the path clears up and it's better than what I could have planned. Yes. There's a, a American football player, um, his name is, um, Emmanuel Acho. He wrote a book called... Oh gosh, I'm gonna forget it now. But his whole, premise is about, um, he'll never set a goal, he only sets intentions without limits because he said, "If I'm so focused on 12 touchdowns but God has 20 for me, then I'm gonna miss those other ones because I was only focused here." And when we, when we set intentions, um, and are open to how it's gonna grow, right, what it's gonna turn into, um, it's usually beyond our expectations. That's right. I mean, as my cousin Norma used to say, you know, you, you, you set your intention, you do your best, and then you let go and let God. Yes. Because, uh, there's a power greater than we are that grows our gardens. We plant the seeds, we cultivate, but there's something more that goes on that we cannot control. Yeah. And that i- is, is better than anything that we could have come up with ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's about getting out of the way. Yep. My gosh, what a delightful conversation. Um, thank you so much, Diane, for coming on today and sharing with us. Can you tell people how they can find you, follow you, um, hire you, buy your book, all the things? Sure. I have a website, which is,, www.dianedreher.com, D-I-A-N-E D-R-E-H-E-R. And it has my, my books on it, uh, how to contact me. It has meditations and my blog and all kinds of, uh... Uh, there's a, a, a giveaway that they can click on something and get a, an inner peace, uh, exercise free. So they can come and visit me at dianedreher.com, and I would be very happy to, uh, you know, answer them if they send me an email. There's a contact form on there, too. Awesome. Thank you so much everyone who has been listening today. I sincerely hope that this episode has inspired you to, um, find your unique path to peace, as well as to fill up with joy in order to live out your best well-tended lives. And until next time, y'all, blessings and blooms. Thank you so much, Diane. Thank you Well, friends, I sincerely hope that today's conversation planted a seed deep in your heart that you needed most. Be sure to check out the show notes for a few of my favorite heart tap moments from this episode, and then come tell me yours over on Instagram or Facebook. And if you're enjoying The Well-Tended Life podcast, the best way you can support the show is by sharing it with a friend or leaving a thoughtful review. It truly helps more people find this little corner of encouragement and growth. Thank you so much for being here, and until next time, y'all, blessings and blooms