ENCORE SHOW!! I'm A Rotarian Podcast Season 8 EP.15 PE Gordon McInally

 Encore Presentation — March

Join us for a special encore: an intimate conversation with Past RI President Gordon McInally, recorded before his term. Hear his vision to spotlight mental health and inspire global hope. Listen to Gordon McInally today on the podcast.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi there, everyone. I'm Gwen Jones and welcome once again to the Abortarian Podcast, the weekly podcast where I introduce you two amazing people that proudly call themselves Rotarians. Well, my guest today wants to talk about mental health. He wants it to be a part of DEI, and he wants Rotarians to be aware of mental health, not only in themselves, but the world around them. He also wants to bring hope to the world and thinks that hope is the one thing that Rotarians bring back. He also swears the kilts with a target, better known as modern sports. That's right, President-elect Gordon Macchinely is with me. Finally! I mean I've had Jennifer on twice, and Stephanie was just with us a little while ago. So it is only fair to bring the wonderful man in the middle of those two administrations to join me for the interview. So join us, won't you? President-elect Gordon Mackinelli is joining me for the conversation. And I am so glad you've joined us as well. Welcome back to the show, everyone. Well, it is my honor and my privilege to have our president elect on the show. That is right. Gordon McNally is joining me. And uh I am thrilled. I am also uh an honored, like I said. And I also have to say, I have to throw myself uh under the bus because Jennifer has been on twice. I had Stephanie Uchik on just this last month, and I have not secured Gordon until today, but that has changed. President elect, welcome to the show. It's so lovely to have you.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Well, thank you so much, Gwen. It's a real delight and a pleasure to join you. I I was worried that you were trying to avoid me when I saw that you'd already had Jennifer on twice and Stephanie on once. But I think part of the problem was my schedule as well. And it was just trying to find a suitable time. So it's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Well, thank you. Thank you so much. It was it was fun. And I and you know, I don't have so much time for you famous people. I'm really trying to get to know the everyday people. That's what the tagline is, as you know. But uh it's getting close, sir. Let's start off with some with some questions because uh I know there's a lot of people who have seen you and seen you. Um you were just recently at at Pets and a few other places, and they've seen you in your beautiful kilts, and they've seen you doing these wonderful speeches. But you're about to become president of 1.04 million Rotarians. You ready? How are you feeling?

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Yeah, well, it's uh it's an incredible experience, I have to tell you. And uh I might tell you, I uh for a long time I uh I couldn't believe that it was happening. And uh when I got the call back in August of 2021 to ask if I would accept the nomination, I uh obviously I accepted it. And then I I went to bed every night after that for a week, and I would wake up at 3 a.m. thinking, gee, there's been some mistake made. They must have meant to phone somebody else. They've they've come down the list of names and then they've realized that they've they've phoned the wrong person. And I kept waiting on a second phone call, a phone call to say, look, Gordon, we're really sorry, but we meant to phone.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

We'd had one, we had one too many that night, and was the first name that popped up in the Rolodex.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Absolutely, but no, it's it's a great privilege to have this opportunity, Gwen. And uh, but you know, the most important thing is, and you said it yourself, I am one of 1.4 million members of Rotary around the world. And as I have said on many occasions, I am no more important than any of the other 1.4 million members of Rotary, because it's the members of Rotary who are doing the work of Rotary, and that's why I'm delighted to see so many regular Rotarians on your podcast because you're showcasing the work of Rotary. It's one thing speaking to, and I still I'm not entirely comfortable with the sobriquet senior leader, but it's one thing speaking to the the leaders, but the the the most important people are the folks in the rotary clubs, and I will never forget that.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

So you've officially you officially do not take office until uh this May in in Melbourne. But if anybody has spent any time looking at your page lately, it sounds to me like this job started a year ago. And I know when we spoke to Jennifer, her job started two years ago, and Stephanie is already like trying to kind of put things in plan. So you are you're technically only a president for a year, but doesn't it kind of feel like your family has had to take on a three-year commitment almost?

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Almost a three-year commitment, certainly a 30-month commitment, because it's as soon as you're nominated, uh, then as soon as the nomination is confirmed, you're you're on the road. Um that's on the road with a small R because you're immediately starting to prepare. And uh, for example, the the theme for 23-24 that we released last month in the International Assembly in Orlando, I signed off on that before Christmas of 2021. And for the whole of 2022, I had to run the gamut of questions. Go on, tell me what your theme is. I uh I won't tell anybody else, it won't go any further, but you can tell me. I you know, you can trust me. I'm a rhetorian. And then, of course, I had to be very careful that I didn't let it slip in the course of my addresses during that period as well, because it's important to have that impact. So, no, it is it's a 30-year, a 30-year, 30 months. 30 year, well, yeah. I don't know. Like 30 years, yeah, 30-month commitment. And uh, I would certainly say that you are pretty well as busy during the year of your elect year as you are during the year as president. You know, I'm on the road a lot of the time. I'm just at the beginning, as you said earlier. I've I've been at Southwest Pets in uh Los Angeles this past weekend, and I'm now on the road for the next seven weeks going around various pits, uh mainly in the US, but also down into Central America and uh one or two in the United Kingdom as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

So and and and I I've asked this question before to your to your predecessor and to the the future uh are you is there any way that you can be ready for what you're about to partake in? I mean, I mean, I know you've been traveling around. You've been the places where Jennifer can't be right now, is where you've been a lot of the time. Um does it get does it really get your feet wet? Does it get you ready for the responsibility of what's gonna happen this summer?

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Oh, yeah, I think I think it does. I think it does because what it does is it brings home what we already know that we are this wonderful global international organization doing so much good all over the world. And you know, there's nothing better than seeing that with your own eyes. I I read the magazines, I listen to the podcasts, I look at social media, I know what Rotary is doing. But when I see it with my own eyes, I I that really brings it home. And then it gives me the opportunity to tell people uh that what I have seen and to share my experiences with people. And there's nothing better than sharing a first hand experience. There's nothing better than being able to sit down with somebody and say, let me tell you about when I was here, rather than let me tell you about what I read about happens here. It's much better to be able to talk from first hand experience. And one of the most important things I think as I travel around is to be able to say thank you to the Rotarians around the world, because I'm always conscious that those two words don't always come from the people that we serve, and and that's often for the best of reasons. But I think uh it's important to thank people for what they do because they do so much.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

I think sometimes it's why we threw in all those years ago that service above self, because sometimes you're not going to get a thank you, bravo, well done. You might have to just go home and go, good job, and pat your own self a little bit. So I think there's the one thing after I've had um, like I said, your predecessor and stuff on is I had a couple of emails about people saying, How do we pick our presidents? You know, does and so you got a phone call that said you're you've been nominated, but did you have to write a 1500-word essay of hi, my name is Gordon and I'd love to be president? I mean, like, how did who who wants to pick our presidents? Because we as members technically don't. Do we know? We we I didn't know you, Gordon, so I you seem like a great guy, but how did you how did you get to be president?

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Well, and in in many ways, though, the you as members, the members do choose the president because the president's selected by a nominating committee. And the nominating committee is drawn from the zones of the rotary world, and the members of the nominating committee are elected by the members within their individual zones. So ultimately, the the zones choose the member of the nominating committee who subsequently uh looks at the the candidates that who have expressed an interest. So taking it right back to the start, uh, you express an interest in being president, you do make a written application at that stage.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

So you really do do an essay of hi, my name is George, and I want to be president. Okay. Yeah, fair enough. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

So they then look at the all the applications in any given year and drill down to a list of finalists, and then they interview the finalists, and then they make their decision as to who they see as a fit nominee. And so it is a democratic process, although sadly it's a process that maybe is a bit misunderstood because, like I say, ultimately the members of that committee are chosen by the rotary clubs in the zones that they represent. So if uh if you don't like the president, speak to your nominating committee member.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

There you go. Well, then now I know when when people when I was president of my club, I actually had to be interviewed.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

So is the president elect, did you have to be interviewed by said nominating committee, or was it just absolutely the the there's an interview process that takes place, and uh I tell you, it's a pretty, pretty daunting thing to uh, in my case, walk onto a Zoom room with 17 other people. But uh, you know, in historically, when it was done face to face, that would be a question of sitting at the head of a table with another 17 people on the nominating committee, ready to fire questions at you for anything up to an hour to decide whether or not you're a fit and proper person.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Which is why I will never and do not want to be Bristol Rotary International President. Was there one question if you're if you're allowed to tell us? Um was there one question that was asked, and you'd have to tell us by who that really like stuck you like, ooh, this was this was a great question, or I'm excited to answer this question. Was there a question that you can still remember today that that was uh memorable?

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Well, I I I think and I can't remember the exact wording of the question, but but one of the questions that I was asked was, you know, what what would you see, you know, how do you see yourself as president of Rotary International? And uh my response then was what my response would be now, and that is that I want to see myself not as a king, not as a god, but as as literally a first among equals of 1.4 million members. Because I think that is important. I think it's important that the president is accessible to the membership. I think it's important that the member, the president works with the membership, and I think it's important that the president works alongside the members because, like I've already said, I don't see myself as being anything more important than anybody else. We're all Rotarians and we're all doing the same work.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

So I I would have to say that probably the biggest thing that's happened this year is the real introduction of media and media savvy that Jennifer Jones has brought to the position of president. And I actually asked this to Stephanie as well. Is that kind of an awakening for Rotary International that we need to start our presidents to be a little bit more savvy to the world around them, especially in media? And is that gonna be kind of hard if you want to be a guy that wants to just get his hands dirty and be side by side with Rotarians, or is there a balance there?

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Oh, I I think I think there's a balance. Uh I think it I certainly think that we we have to recognize that the role of the president is to be the public face of Rotary. Now, what would we what would we want the public to think of rotary? We would want the public to think of people getting their hands dirty. And so, you know, ultimately, I would much rather be seeing myself on social media, see myself in the press, um, doing projects, working with the Rotarians, than simply standing for a photo opportunity or being put up uh on a pedestal. So I think it's a question of balance. We have a lot of great opportunities to interact with some pretty significant movers and shakers in the world. I'm I'm comfortable with that. I've uh I've you know moved in that sort of circle before, so it's not uh new to me, but I think it is important that we present, and I think the the opportunity that that Jennifer has presented by being so media savvy and uh showing us all how we need to interact and we need to tell our stories is one of the great things. We're very lucky, we we get along very well together, and uh I'm a great believer in this concept of continuity where we don't think about individual single rotary years, but we talk about you know rotaries years plural, and we move things forward in a continually improving manner. And Jen and I have um had some great conversations about that, even before either of us were nominated, in fact, as president, that if the opportunity ever came to serve together, wouldn't it be a great thing? And of course, now with Stephanie in the mix in the line, it's uh it's it's great because we really do. The three of us feel that we can exhibit that spirit of continuity that I think is so important and is so needed all the way in the Rotary chain.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Yeah, I have I have personally I've always wondered why you guys don't do this for two years. I guess for you it's gonna it's almost feels like two years because you're already traveling, you're already doing stuff, but then come May, you actually get the the office and the paperwork.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Well, right technically the first of July.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Technically the first of July, true.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Okay, even though even although the uh the convention is in May, and then of course there's the sort of ceremonial handover at convention, technically the first of July. As I've said to Jennifer, if there's if there's any dirt hits the fan between May and July, it's still her responsibility. I'll take it after the first of July.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

So yes, on June 30th, it's like, nope, not till midnight. You you stick it out. A few more minutes. Five minutes to 12. Five minutes to 12. You're you're in there. Well, I want to talk about your theme, and then I want to I want to talk about uh uh you as a Rotarian. I mean you you've obviously been a Rotarian for a while, and I know folks are going to want to know that. But you your theme and your interest, I find um very interesting. And I and I mean that absolutely complimentary. You brought in that your theme is to bring hope to the world. Excuse me, I think I've paraphrased that right. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Create hope in the world.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Create hope in the world, my mistake. And so I want to start right there. Why hope? Because the first thing I thought of in my brain was my my geekiness of my Greek mythology was Pandora's box. And for those who know the story of Pandora's box, she opened up the box and all of the scary things flew out of the box. But at the bottom of the box was this little creature called hope. And so when I saw this, this theme of yours, that's the first thing I thought of. Have we let between COVID and wars and earthquakes and climate, have we opened up this Pandora's box? And is he trying to give us that hope? That's right. That's where I took it from it. What tell us more about your theme and what you took from it? Why did you choose this theme?

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Well, the the the reason I I chose the theme of hope. And the first thing, if I can talk about create hope in the world, I see it as a call to action. I was anxious, I was anxious that the the theme should be a call to action, not simply a statement, but a call to action. I've, as you say, been around Rotary for a long time, and we can talk about the specifics of that in a minute or two. So I've been around Rotary for a long time. I've seen a lot of Rotary projects, I've partaken in a lot of Rotary projects. And I spoke in Orlando of the lady in Thailand who uh told me that Rotary had given her back hope after the tsunami took her family, took her home, took her livelihood, uh, and she had no hope and she had no desire to carry on living. But Rotary restored her hope. Rotary created hope in her heart. And I've seen that on many other occasions. And on many other occasions, uh, beneficiaries of Rotary's service have said that they had no hope until Rotary came along and restored that hope. And I see hope as being the very basic building block that everything else comes from. If people have no hope, then they have no future. And if we can create hope by giving them clean water, if we can give them hope by educating them, if we can give them hope by improving their health, and give them hope by improving sanitation, that that is what we are all about ultimately. And I I wanted to start at that very basic point where without hope we have nothing. And so to challenge Rotary to create hope in the world is what I want to see us go forward and do during next year.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Well, and I also know that part of your um call to action is for uh helping folks with mental illness and which can be a very hopeless state of life. So do the two of those walk hand in hand in your year?

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Absolutely. I'm very anxious that uh Rotary should be getting into what I term the mental health space because I think there is a real issue with mental health in the 21st century. Uh, I think coming out of the pandemic in particular, there are a lot of people who are suffering. They're suffering from the isolation that they have experienced over the last couple of years. And many of the people suffering the most are youngsters because they've been affected at a time when they would normally have been perfecting and developing social skills and and relationships. And of course, that's all been uh upset by the pandemic. And so I think the the I talk about a second pandemic. I think there's almost a second pandemic just waiting to strike, and that is of poor mental health. And I again it's it's now an open secret that uh within my own family we've experienced bad mental health. I lost my brother. Ironically, when nine years ago today, I lost my brother to suicide, and he was a brilliant guy who suffered from poor mental health but concealed it because he he didn't there was such a taboo about it, there's such a stigma about poor mental health. And I thought that that is something that we have the potential to the potential to stop. We need to be able to talk about poor mental health. That's the first thing. If people are feeling low, they need to be able to tell us and that we need to be ready to listen. And uh, since we launched the initiative at the International Assembly last month, I have been overwhelmed by the number of people who have reached out to say that one, they they want to get involved in this, and two, they have personal experience of that sort of thing. And uh it it's a I I think there's a real need for Rotary to help create a robust mental health support system, and I think we can do that.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

And I I agree. I I think it's very interesting. We've been hammered probably the last two, three years about DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion, as you well know. And I'm the one who jokes and gets the hate mail that the first year and a half was spent on color of skin and partner in bed. I feel that we did a lot of work in those two areas. But I feel that we didn't work a lot in the biases that we all have. So for instance, I did a show not too long ago about fat bias and got a lot of very interesting email from people saying, I don't have a fat bias, they all should just lose weight. I thought that that was my favorite email. But what I did also find that was very interesting was how many people saying, well, all this has to do with mental illness. So people, trans people wouldn't commit suicide if we just had better support groups in mental illness. And people wouldn't feel so discriminated or whatever if we just had more mental health issues taken care of. And there's very many, it was quite surprising how many Rotarians click it all back to helping us with our heads, helping us with the way we we deal things. Is DEI ready to expand into some of those biases, especially about mental health?

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Well, I I sincerely hope so, because I think you're you've hit the nail on the head when you say that we we can trace so many of these things back to poor mental health. And if we can improve mental health, we can improve so many other aspects of things. As you know, we are still in the early days of our active DEI campaign, call it what you will, but uh I think it's something that we need to be looking at going forward, and we need to ensure that uh we do uh become a truly diverse, equal, inclusive organization. And I think you're right. I think in the early days we tended to focus on one or two particular aspects. Um, I think we have to recognize that there are a great many aspects to DEI. And again, I use the this expression that people need to be able to look at rotary and see themselves reflected there. And that that has to be our ultimate aim.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Now, I just did here on on Woodby Island, there's a thing called a point in time count where we actually count our homeless people on the island. And it was very apparent to me that there was some uh mental illness out there. Um I would also say there was some self-medicating out there. So what are some ideas that you have? I mean, there's the mental illness that is with all due respect, like your brothers. Your brother, I assume, you know, had a quote unquote normal life until one day he, you know, took his own life. And then you have the folks that are out on the street, perhaps homeless, talking to themselves. You know, this mental illness is like, you know, it's like saying mental illness almost like saying human race. It's all different sizes and colors and ethnicities and languages. How is exactly Rotary going to help mental health? What do you have in mind?

SPEAKER_00 25:24

So I I think the first thing is to recognize what you have just said. It is different. It looks different in every different community. It looks different in the community on the island where you are. It looks different in LA where I am just now, it looks different in Scotland where where my home is. And I think that what we're asking people to do initially is to identify what the specific issues are in their areas. And then we've got some wonderful people on the Rutarian Action Group for Mental Health, who are curating a toolbox of resources that people will be able to access and will be able to look at what might be suitable for their particular issues affecting their particular part of the world. And of course, that is pan-cultural as well, because it's mental health issues are going to look different in different parts of the world, but even down to within specific communities, mental health issues are going to be different. The needs within one town may be different to the needs in the next town. And therefore, each club needs to be able to identify initially what the issues are in their area and then dip into the toolbox to find out where they can help, whether it's helping young people specifically, whether it's helping homeless, uh, whether it's helping people who have got a drug problem, um, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Is what is your goal for it? I mean, you have a year until Stephanie at June 30th at 1159 walks into that office. What do you what do you want to achieve with this mental health idea, with this theme of mental health?

SPEAKER_00 27:06

I I I want I want to think that by by the end of the year, and the great thing is that uh in the spirit of continuity, I think we can see this going forward. Just as I'm embracing the concept of empowering girls and women that uh started with Shaker and that Jennifer has run with, and that I'll be running with, uh I'd like to think that this initiative will not just be a one-year, let's fix it all in 12 months and then assume it's all done and forget about it. I'd like to see it becoming almost institutionalized in rotary that we are working in this field going forward. But essentially, what I would like to think is that by the end of the year, there are people who can say, you know, my mental well-being has been improved thanks to the work of my local rotarians, my local rotor actors. Um, I would like to think that there may be one person, if one person is uh prevented from taking their own life, then I think that would be an achievement. But I would like to think that we might be able to have a much greater impact than simply that. But it's not about the ultimate, you know, if somebody chooses to complete suicide because they're suffering. Uh there are people who who are suffering and are not at that stage. And it's important that we intervene early and encourage people to talk and that we we talk, we ask each other, how are you? But but not simply how are you, period. How are you really? And uh encourage them to open up.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

And be willing to listen. Don't ask the question unless you're ready to have an answer, I think is always something that's very important.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Yeah, I would agree 100%.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

So is mental illness our next polio? I mean, I did read our our polio report that went to the UN just last last week, and we're getting really super close, knock on wood, in a lot of areas. Could but so it always makes me the forever optimist going, okay, we might be able to check that one off our list. Let's find the next big thing. Is mental illness the next big thing for rotary?

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Frankly, I don't think that's for me to say that it is that it's not the next big thing. I am all at the moment, I am 100% behind the importance of the polio campaign. And I think it's not just um talking in cliches to say we must focus on that before we even think about the next thing, because we must finish the job on polio. And this is a critical time. As you say, we are very close now, and uh the experts in the WHO and the other medical agencies are assuring us that this could be the calendar year where we stop the wild polio virus transmission, which would be wonderful because then, as you know, we would enter a period of certification that three years from now the world would be declared polio free. We have to keep our eyes on that particular ball at the moment and work on polio until it is finished. Because if we stop now, within a relatively short space of time, the cases will start to bubble up again. And all the work we've done, all the effort we've put into it so far will be will be negated. And again, I say this time and time again, but we made a promise to the children of the world in the 1980s that we would rid the world of this disease, and it is critical that we keep our promises. We're not in the habit of breaking our promises in Rotary.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Amen. So let's find out about Gordon. Let's take the let's take the PG Off and we'll just get to know Gordon, you know. Maybe we could all head to the pub and we'll like so you obviously have been in Rotary for a little while. So uh what I mean, I assume that they don't say, hey, after 12 months, you want to be international president? I think you've got part. So tell us uh tell us how you became a Rotarian.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Okay, well, the the the the story is I became a Rotarian back in 1984 at the tender age of 26. And uh my wife Heather and I had uh relocated from our respective parts of Edinburgh that we were living, because we got married and went to live in the the small town of South Queensferry, which is just outside of Edinburgh, and we made some friends with uh a local farmer um who invited us along initially to a social event that was being run by the Rotary Club of South Queensferry. And we thought, yeah, this would be a nice way to meet some people in this town that we've recently moved to. And we went along and we enjoyed their company. We had it with a great night, and and then I was uh asked if I'd like to come along to one of the regular Thursday evening meetings of the Rotary Club of South Queensferry, and I did, and I enjoyed the company of the people I was meeting then. And uh I I was a dentist, I am still am a dentist, and the great thing was I was getting the chance to interact with people who weren't dentists, and so we didn't spend the entire evening talking shop and we talked about lots of lots of you weren't you weren't checking out people's bicuspices or anything, okay. And um I you know I was always somebody who, and I think this was uh instilled in me by my parents. I was always somebody who wanted to look out for other people, I was always somebody who wanted to to care and to try and do things. And I found through the the the Rotary Club that here was a a vehicle where you know a 26-year-old dentist with a practice in the center of Edinburgh was able to make a difference to the lives of people suffering malnutrition in uh India, people who were suffering from poor water in Africa. And the rotary became that vehicle, that opportunity to do that. So I uh quite quickly joined, and here we are, 39 years later, uh, still here.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

I would say so. Well, that is probably the most angelic story, though. It's like my wife and I, and it's just sounds lovely. I I I would join that group. Is your wife a Rotarian?

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Yeah, she is, yeah. Um Heather joined Rotary, she she didn't join Rotary until uh about 2008.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Until Sylvia got in there and broke the ceiling for you all. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

As you know, in 1984 it remained a single gender organization. And uh no, Heller joined in about 2002, and uh she didn't join the rotary club that I'm a member of. Uh, she joined an adjacent rotary club, and if uh she was here, she would tell you that was because nobody ever asked her to join the rotary club of South Queens Ferry.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Oh my! There you go.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

But in actual fact, she was anxious to be her own person and be a Rotarian in her own right, not simply be there because she was my wife, uh as I would be there because I was her husband had she been the member originally. And she was part of the South Queen's Ferry Club, just as all the partners were. Um, but she was she was anxious to join a club where she could uh and we've always said over the years, it's it's double the fun, double the work, uh, but but double the friends. And uh so she remained a member of that club until we relocated to the Scottish borders because we now have moved from South Queensferry about an hour south into the Scottish borders, and she is now very active as a new member of uh satellite club to the Rotary Club of Selkirk, which is styling itself as a passport club and doing rotary in a new style and encouraging people who otherwise might not have been able to be part of Rotary because of work commitments and so forth to get involved with Rotary. And uh it's it's going very well. And uh, I had the pleasure of inducting a couple of new members there on Thursday before I left to come over for the pets on Friday.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

So is she ready? Is she is she ready for her, you know, her husband's mug to be all over the world as the uh Rotary International president?

SPEAKER_00 35:37

We've always been a team, Gwen, and and I couldn't have done it without the support of Heather. And I'm a great believer in that. For one thing, let me say how delighted I am that that Stephanie can be president as a single person. I think that's that's a really important statement that has been made there because historically that wouldn't be the case. But I think if you do have a partner, I think it's essential that you have the support of your partner because uh it it it involves both of you. And uh, although Heather hasn't been traveling with me this week, uh she travels with me most of the time. And uh she's a great sounding board, she's uh one of my fiercest critics. If I give a presentation, everybody tells me it was great.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

Heather tells me I'm one of those two, Gordon. I am one of those two.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

So and so uh I I I couldn't do the job without her, and uh we we we work as a team.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

I have uh a totally selfish question, and I actually, you know, I found it very interesting that um Shaker's uh wife, and I her name escapes me, I'm so sorry, um, wore a beautiful sari her entire time that she'd be going out with Shaker. Um and in the past, we have had uh wives that have worn traditional clothing of the country in which their husband, as of this point, has been from. You stepped out last year in Houston in a kilt. And I can't believe how many women went nuts. First of all. First of all, women went nuts, and every single joke that ever could come out came out. But to my knowledge, you are the first president to come out in the clothing of their country. And it and as I well know, with uh my daughter Marying is Scotsman, every single kilt has a different pattern. And what is the pattern of your kilt? What clan, if I'm saying it right, do you belong to, sir?

SPEAKER_00 37:46

So the the the kilt that um I I wore in Houston is modern Gordon Tartan. And uh I could I could I could joke and say that's because I am a modern Gordon. Uh it's it it's uh that that is the that is the tartan that I choose to wear. Um Mackinally, interestingly enough, historically, is an Irish surname. Although Mackinally sounds very Scottish, and I am Scottish, and I'm uh you know, as far back as I can trace, we are Scottish. But originally McInally would be an Irish name. Uh, we are part of the Buchanan clan. And if I'm being quite honest with you, that the reason I wear modern Gordon is I prefer that tartan to the Buchanan tartan, because the Buchanan tartan is a very loud, a very bright yellow-based tartan. And uh I happen to prefer the the colors in the modern Gordon.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

So if there's any Buchanans hearing our voices right now, uh, you know, Gordon's wearing Gordon and just get over it, but he's a Buchanan at heart. Is that what I'm supposed to do? But was that uh was that a personal choice? And will you be wearing your kilt during your preg your presidency the whole time through? I'll I'll be I'll be with stress occasions, I assume, yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Yes, exactly, exactly. Uh and and and and that is interesting because you you spoke about historically people like Rashe, Rashi Rashi, there you go, thank you who uh would wear the national dress of India and and uh you know that that's a beautiful national dress. Interestingly enough, there is no national dress for Scotland for for women, and uh of course there is the kilt for men. I I I wear the kilt with pride because I'm a very proud Scot. I uh I I love my country, um, but I'm I'm I am and I would describe myself as a nationalistic Scot, but not a Scottish nationalist. Uh, I'm a great believer, a great believer in the United Kingdom. Uh I believe that Scotland should remain part of the United Kingdom, but I am a proud Scot. I uh I come into the Flower of Scotland, which is Scotland's national anthem. I have the saltire flag because that is the Scottish flag. Um, and so I wear my kilt with pride. I wear it on special occasions. Uh believe it or not, back home in Scotland, we don't all wear the kilt all day, every day.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

It would be chilly, Gordon. Come on, face it.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

They're pretty warm with eight yards of material and a kilt. It's a pretty warm garment.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Is it really? It's eight yards. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

So getting back to your your wonderful angelic story of you joining. Um you've done this now for, you know, you said since 1984. Um I love asking this question because it's like the it question. So taking out this year of pre-pre uh presidency. What has been a moment in these first 29 years or so of being a Rotarian that you think of and it brings a smile to your face? What is that one moment that during all those days in Rotary that we all know that we don't like, or we're getting in the muck, or could somebody please say thank you? What is one moment that you can think of and it brings a smile to your face to make all those other days that are so stressful worth it? Is there one that just pings in your head and it makes this whole rotary thing worth it? And I'm saying acing out this year because you've already done a whole bunch of stuff this year in pre-presidency. I'm saying, as just Gordon Rotarian, what was one of your favorite thoughts about being a Rotarian?

SPEAKER_00 41:45

I think one of the favorite thoughts would probably be when I what was probably one of the first overseas humanitarian projects that I took part in, and it was in Rwanda in Africa. And it was when I finally realized that I was able to make a difference. Remember earlier on I spoke about how could a dentist working on his own out of Edinburgh make a difference? Uh and I remember going to Rwanda to work on a project with the orphans of the genocide that had taken place there in the 1990s. And uh I remember going and seeing a young girl and her brother, and their name was Claudette and Francoise, the brother. And we were we were taken to see the situation that they were living in, and they were living in squalor, uh, you know, they had nothing. The house they were in was letting in water, they they weren't getting to school, just and again, you know, they had no hope because this was just the way they were. And and so having seen them and then went back a year later because they had been adopted onto the program that was being run, and to see the difference in their condition, the fact that by then they were both back in education, the fact that they were then living in a house that was secure, that was watertight. I think I finally at that point got what it was all about. It was that we can change lives. And in actual fact, it goes beyond changing lives. Because I think in in the case of that, these two young people, we probably saved our lives. And uh, you know, it's it's not overriding the fooding to say that. And I think that was something that, you know, even now I look back and I think, yeah, that that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

Yeah. And it it I love I love hearing other people's stories because it does, it stops me too, and goes, see, that's that's why we're doing it. That's why so in these other days where it's like really, you know, bureaucracy days or whatever those days. I got one more question and then I'm gonna let you go. Um and this is this is in the future. So let's say that uh someone has to come up and And say a few words about uh Gordon McNally's year. What do you think they're gonna what do you what do you hope that they say in 2025 or 2035 or whatever? What do you hope they say about your year?

SPEAKER_00 44:16

So you're talking about the person who's gonna be delivering my eulogy now, are you?

SPEAKER_01 44:20

Well well, your your presidential eulogy, not your physical eulogy, but what what did you accomplish during your year?

SPEAKER_00 44:29

I I I well uh by asking people to create hope, I would like to think that people would say, you know what? During that year, rotary did create hope for people. And hopefully it would be a Rotarian who was delivering this message, and he or she would be able to give examples of where people who were in a hopeless situation were helped by rotary during the year. I I I think one of the one of the the the best theme, the second best theme to create hope in the world, I always think is of Ian Risley making a difference in the world. And and that that's what we're all about. And if at the end of the year we can make a difference to somebody's life by creating hope, giving them hope for a future. I'd love to think that uh that that that would be something that we would have achieved. But as I've said all along, it's not about my year in isolation. It's it's it's about rotary, one of rotary's years. You know, we're moving into rotary's 120th year, and uh it's it's simply another of rotary's years uh rather than Gordon McInally's year.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

Yeah, yeah. Well, Gordon McInally's year. I I I I already see that it's gonna be hugely successful. And my friends, such an honor to meet you. Finally, finally, such an honor to meet you, and I thank you so much for taking time out of a very busy life that you have right now. Enjoying us on the podcast. Yeah, I'm excited, and I hope you out there are excited too. Uh, this gentleman has just a few more months of uh relative freedom until uh he is our president and Jennifer gets to take a nap. So thank you, sir. It was an honor to have you on the show.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

My pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Gordon, it was so worth the wait to have you, to meet you, to be able to talk to you. So, what do you think, Rotarians? I think he's quite a guy. I think he's wonderful, and his smile is intoxicating. And he, in just a few months of this recording, will be our president. Wow. Hang on, hang on, Gordon, here it comes. And I stand legitimately by that last statement. Jennifer, make sure you take a nap somewhere around early June, girl. You need it, you need it, everybody needs it if you're working so hard now. Gordon's working so hard now. Now, and he hasn't even become president yet. And hey, did you catch that about the theme? Bean discovered way back in 2021. Ooh, there's some good secret keepers there at Rotary International, I'll tell you what. Well, I am hoping you enjoyed today's program. And if you did, please tell a friend about the show, have them download and rate us. And if you have a Rotarian that I should know about, even if it's uh the next president, maybe after Stephanie, hey, have them give me a buzz, won't you? Rotarianpod at gmail.com. Until next week. Breathe in a little hope. Take care of yourself and the world around you, and we'll hear you next time on the I'm Rotarian Podcast. Have a wonderful week, everyone. Thanks again, Gordon. Bye bye.