Leveraging People Analytics with Dr. Tyrone Smith Jr.

Our guest this time is Dr. Tyrone Smith Jr., Global Head of People Analytics & Insights at Udemy. Tyrone is responsible for designing and scaling Udemy's first-ever People Analytics function from the ground up. He leads the Global people data and talent management strategy development while partnering with business leaders to drive strategic initiatives to include but not limited to employee sentiment, strategic workforce planning, talent selection, development and performance assessments, people/business metrics, people technology, and research.

Questions Include: 

• Offboarding and employer brand reputation management: "Given the rising importance of an excellent internet presence when it comes to building and maintaining a positive reputation, both within an industry and outside of it, the incentive to leave a good impression on all employees, even those leaving, is certainly present". But what does that process look like and is it truly important enough to justify the potentially steep time investment? 
• Adopting customer experience approaches for employees: In an article last year, you wrote "To develop a thoughtful and effective employee experience, look to customer journey maps for inspiration. Understand what works and how it can be applied to your workforce. Identify touchpoints, your message and communication across them and try to alleviate pain points in the workflow the same way you would obstacles in a buyer’s journey." Talk about the lessons organizations can learn from how they treat customers. 
• Why should HR leaders encourage hybrid work? What are the benefits? 
• What are some of the top tactical skills HR and TA pros need in 2022? 
• "According to recent research by Harvard Business Review, the difference in wages between POC workers and their white counterparts is approximately $220 billion. The disparity has a widespread effect on the broader POC

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:10

Welcome to the HR Chat podcast, bringing the best of the HR and talent communities to you.

Speaker 2: 0:21

Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show. I'm your host today, bill Ham , and my awesome guest this time is Dr. Tyrone Smith, Jr . Global Head of People Analytics and Insights at Udemy . Tyrone is responsible for designing and scaling Udemy's first ever people analytics function from the ground up. He leads the global people data and talent management strategy development, while partnering with business leaders to drive strategic innovations and initiatives to include, but not limited to employee sentiment, strategic workplace planning, talent selection, development and performance assessments, people and business metrics, people, technology and research. Tyrone, it's my pleasure to welcome you to the show today.

Speaker 3: 1:05

Thanks for having me, bill. Excited to be here.

Speaker 2: 1:08

So, beyond my reintroduction there, Tyrone, why don't you start by taking a minute or two and introducing yourself to our audience.

Speaker 3: 1:16

Absolutely. One , thanks. I'm glad to be a part of the conversation today. Good day, everyone. For those that are listening, I am Dr. Terrone Smith. Um, and really just to give you a background on myself , um, Smith , the last , uh, five years in the era of people analytics , um, managing, there is ar , areas of talent management people, technology as well as people analytics. Um, but , um, and also prior to my role , um, with , uh, Udemy , um, early part of my career, I spent, you know, some time in the accounting and finance realm as well as it, and being in, you know, people analytics definitely has a connection when you think about business strategy and people strategy to the business that thread through the entire , um, employee life cycle . So excited to be in an ever evolving space , um, as we look out into the future as well as the future work , uh, enabling better , uh, business practices while leveraging data , uh, is important. So excited to engage in this discussion today.

Speaker 2: 2:20

Okay, let's get into the questions. And today's a bit of a medley, actually, listeners. Um, so sometimes I like to focus on one particular topic with the guest. In this case today, I was doing my homework on Tyrone, and , uh, he shared a lot of interesting articles, and he's been interviewed in different places over the course of the last 12 months or so. So actually the approach that I'm gonna take today is to kind of , uh, revisit some of the points that he's, he's shared with the world of work over the past year or so . Let's get going Tyrone by talking a little bit about offboarding and employer brand reputation management. Um, so in an article that you shared on hr executive network.com , uh, you said the following , uh, given the rising importance of an excellent internet presence when it comes to building and maintaining a positive reputation, both within an industry and outside of it, the incentive to leave a good impression on all employees, even those leaving is certainly present. So I guess my question for you is, but what does that process look like and is it truly important enough to justify the, the potentially steep time investment associated with leaving , uh, uh, employers who are gonna leave the company with that good impression?

Speaker 3: 3:31

Yeah, a great question. Uh, thanks for asking. Absolutely. Uh, to answer your question , uh, when you think about, you know, employer branding , um, the, especially the employee experience, and in the day that we're living in now a lot more, our talent is looking for more flexibility around their work, understanding our organizational culture. And when you think about that experience that either current or your previous employees had, I think that's important to leave that, you know, good impression on anyone who walked through your doors. Um, as you can imagine, oftentimes people , people might, you know, understand about your organization or your , the brand of the organization, oftentimes through their network. Do colleagues or friends do family members? And those, you know, positive referrals, that strong net promoters of an organization is critical to whether the term that someone wants to work there or not. And also, when you think about some of your rehires, what if one left an organization, would they ever consider going back at some point later in their career journey? So definitely when it comes to , uh, that employee experience, understanding your talent acquisition processes and pipelines, creating that strong impression , um, throughout , uh, the employee experience is critical. And at the minute the person, you know, enters the organization to , at the moment they exited , uh, that experience should be seamless throughout that component while that employee is tenured . So definitely I do think it's critical and it definitely fosters , uh, a positive impact and impression that one will wanna leave , um, at upon XT organization.

Speaker 2: 5:22

We'll be right back to this conversation after this very brief message from today's sponsoring. Partner. Coach Hub is the leading global talent development platform that enables organizations to create a personalized, measurable, and scalable coaching program for their entire workforce, regardless of department and seniority level. By doing so, organizations are able to reap a multitude of benefits, including increased employee engagement, higher levels of productivity, improve job performance, and increased retention. Learn more@coachhub.com, carry that topic forward a little bit and, and , uh, and combine it with the, the customer experience as well in , in fact, I'd like to sort of , uh, bring in another article , um, that , that you wrote in the last year and , and this one was on the adopting customer experience approaches for employees and, and what the benefits of, you know, bringing those lessons over from the customer experience side. Uh, here , here's another quote directly from you to develop a thoughtful and effective employee experience. Look to customer journey maps for inspiration. Understand what works and how it could be applied to your workforce. Identify touchpoints, your message and communication across them, and try to alleviate pain points in the workflow the same way you would obstacles in a buyer'ss journey. I love that makes a lot of sense. Tell me, tell me about the lessons that organizations can learn from how they treat their customers.

Speaker 3: 6:49

It's extremely important on both ends, you know, from the customer experience, but also you know, your internal customers and stakeholders, which is your talent. Um , when you think about the experience and the , the employee journey that's being created through that is understanding, you know, those touch points that one might be making along the way. Um, and , and embracing that flexibility , um, when circumstances permit itself, as well as creating that customer brand journey along the way. And how does that translate to certain values that connect to your organizational mission or, you know, value statement. Um, are , is the organization truly living out that , um, you know , uh, throughout the processes that whatever services or products one might be making, but also does that also resonate with that employee and creating that experience as they think about how they guide through that experience and journey plan throughout the organization? Then building that, you know, future , uh, proof , how do you sustain that? Um, in looking at this, what does that design look like? How does that connect to the business model , um, to either attract or retain talent? You know, as we're in a growing competitive talent marketplace, what does that mean from your employer branding perspective to ensure that not only you're retaining the best and brightest talent, but also attract ,

Speaker 2: 8:17

Talk a bit about hybrid work now because it is a , a very important topic and it's , uh, hybrid work has become the norm for many organizations over the last couple of years. Why do you think HR leaders tyro, should encourage hybrid work, and what , what are the benefits of doing? So?

Speaker 3: 8:35

This is an area that's constantly evolving, you know, as we still learnt in the pandemic and when you , uh, uh, research is showing that more , uh, individuals are seeking flexibility in how they work . You know, there was a survey , um, in that writeup that I, you know, quoted that, you know, 73% of my career , uh, saw , founded , you know, that in order to retain talent, the right talent, you know, at least, you know, part of the time, surprisingly, the , the idea of really connecting that to business and redesigning how that works. So this is a critical component as we move forward , uh, in how we work. Um, there is gonna be an element of hybrid and probably even an element of, you know, remote , uh, employees , uh, we're seeing want more flexibility and autonomy and how they work , where they work, you know , um, the type of work they're doing , um, is important and does it really connect to how they're looking to grow in their career, and how does that organization help support their development as well along the way.

Speaker 2: 9:44

Okay. The next place I'd like to go on this mely journey with you today is , uh, I've, I've found a pretty interesting article on , on the Udemy , uh, blog when I , when I was doing my homework ahead of this interview, and , uh, it was, it was on the top tactical skills that different professionals need in, in , uh, 2022. Uh , and there was a section on , uh, the top tactical skills that HR and TA pros , uh, need. They included things like growing HR and talent development skills, online course creation , uh, uh, management training, instructional design, and so on. Can you , um, can you share a little bit about why you and your team over at Udemy feel like there are , there are five, maybe a couple more than five key skills that HR and T pros TA pros should develop this year?

Speaker 3: 10:30

Yeah, from my perspective, and, you know, from my independent thoughts on this, you know, some of the , uh, five that was quoted , um, in that article that you , uh, are referencing was to that point around, you know, human resource leadership and management training, even thinking about instructional design or performance management, I think why that is critical is when you think about this new way of working, from my perspective, you know, even when it comes to , uh, instructional design, traditional training , uh, training has changed where, you know, those in-person interactions or cohort models because of the pandemic and covid folks are not able to gather in maybe centralized locations. So how do you be more agile and adjust and adapt to that where you're providing various modalities and how training is delivered , you know, whether that model still remains, but also other areas, whether that's , uh, through online learning , um, different modalities and hybrid learning, or that in-person cohort , uh, learning , I think is, we're definitely gonna see different phases and modalities in that performance management. When you think of that , um, in how you're managing talent, you know, in this hybrid or remote workforce is a bit different than the traditional norm that many of us has experienced over the last decade, where that it was that in-person maybe interaction with the manager or your colleagues or your teams that you're working with. So how do you start to one, tap into the interests of that employee , but also how do you perform as manage , uh, the employee , um, and is the employee , uh, living up to, you know, the standards that the organization is looking for, but also in turn , uh, is the organization developing that employee ? Are they being provided with professional development or learning and development opportunities to continue their growth and upskilling and things like that? Um, as it relates to human resources, the future of human resources is in an evolution of change right now as we speak. When you think about the digital wave, not that is new, but it's a new and , uh, element that's being embraced , um, into the HR function where we inter are integrating different technologies , um, around AI or machine learning , um, or things of that nature, or even digital processes and automation and how that impacts the employee as well as the workforce. I think that's a constant, as evolution as we get more into this , uh, digital , uh, re evolution of things , um, from what we've seen over the last 10 to 20 years. Um, and it's that constant element of manager training. As new leaders are growing in your organization or existing leaders , uh, uh, resigning organization, how are they keeping up with the change that's going on in the industry, but also across the organization to make them feel, place , feel, value , and appreciate it , um, within their organization.

Speaker 2: 13:47

Okay . Just a bit of a follow up there. I mean, you're, you're a data guy. You're, you're a people analytics expert, right? From , from your experiences at , at Udemy have , have , have you and your team found that there are actually loads more possibilities in terms of, for example, me measuring the engagement levels and productivity of employees when they're remote. Uh, I dunno if you guys go in through any forms of remote monitoring , um, or is, is it actually easier to, to be able to get, get a handle on the, the levels of engagement and productivity of , of employees when they're at least sometimes , uh, together with their managers?

Speaker 3: 14:21

Yeah, great question. And , you know, I wouldn't consider me an expert, and my rationale behind that is more so , um, when one is an expert to me, that that means that cuts off the aspect of learning. So I'm a constant learner and I love learning new things, so I would say I'm a knowledge owner then an expert, because being an expert, and, you know, I really don't even use the expert , uh, term because of that, is , is it , to me that shows that you're not willing to learn further or learn from others. But in regards to your question , um, around, you know , um, whether that's the return or , you know, work , uh, aspect or the future work and how folks are working, definitely there are practices and programs , um, that we're looking closely at , um, looking at in comparison benchmarking to industry around, you know, how to embrace or introduce , uh, new programs to the workforce. Many of my peers , um, in their organization, were having discussions around this regularly on what does this look like, you know, for the future and what type of measurements, you know, could be put in place to monitor different things that might enact different people programs that might come about, you know , um, in this space as well , um, throughout discussion that I've had also with my industry peers, and I would add, you know, it's more that term of, you know, looking forward in that mobility and, you know, understanding what does that look like for you and your organization and the talent that you're trying to attract and retain, and does that align to your overall business strategy goals and mission.

Speaker 2: 16:04

Okay. Um, I'm not entirely sure if I got , uh, if I got an answer there though, Tyrone. Um, I, I , I guess I just wanna recap with you then, do , are there other , um, new opportunities, different challenges when it comes to trying to gauge the engagement levels, the productivity levels of employees when they're in office sometimes versus when they're fully remote?

Speaker 3: 16:25

There are definitely new opportunities of , uh, how do you start to look at that in the sense of engagement and , you know, for , uh, us particular, we're not a hundred percent back in the office . So in that, in that aspect of things , um, measurement of in-office activities, you know, really hasn't, you know, taken place. And we're in those early stages of really, you know, defining that from my perspective. So as it relates to how to measure that going forward, I think there's definitely an element of measurement around this that many of my people , analytic peers are discussing around what does this look like in this space, and how do you start to measure productivity in a remote environment? Um, is there different objectives or key KPIs that you're bouncing up against that? How is that employee and manager engagement, you know, and there's also new tools , uh, being introduced to the market to measure and understand and monitor how many touch points does a manager have , um, with their direct report and or employees are having with their team members to understand that, you know, organizational network analysis and who are they connecting to, and you know, what, what influences might they might have on them , um, in the organization.

Speaker 2: 17:52

Okay . Thank you very much. Um, okay, so I wanna , I wanna switch tack again in this medley interview today. Um , and, and , uh, I wanna talk about , um, the mobility gap a little bit here . Here's another quote from you. Uh, this one is from Diversity Inc. Uh, and here it goes, a , according to recent research by Harvard Business Review, the difference in wages between p ooc workers and their white counterparts is approximately 220 billion . That's absolutely disgusting. The , the disparity has , has a widespread effect on the broader POC community and helps perpetuate the intergenerational mobility gap that in turn denies families the ability to overcome poverty. So the , my question for you here, Tyrone, is what can HR pros and , and employers do to address that mobility gap to ensure that people of color, color have the same opportunities as other workers?

Speaker 3: 18:45

Yeah, this is a great and prevailing question, and as we think about, you know, diversity, equity and inclusion, you know, and belonging, I think that's very important and how organizations are showing up in this, but it's not just showing up, you know, if there's an initiative or a diversity objective that an organization release , how are they monitoring and measuring the impact of that and not just, you know, maybe reporting on the amount of, you know , uh, persons of color that they're attracting to the organization. But let's translate that to processes and systems . Is the organization processes and systems also fair and equitable for all? And , you know, isn't mitigating or minimizing bias where those that may come from different , uh, backgrounds or cultures and ethnicity still have the opportunity of those that may , um, come from the majority where, you know, is that marginalized community in the organization still equably treated fairly , uh, in all aspects as it relates to pay? Um, is it , uh, are they paid fairly and equitable as, as you look at your performance management and promotion process, are they being permitted the same opportunities as others? Um , even when you look at your learning and development, are they, you know , given those opportunities for progressing in their careers to obtain that desired skillset that they might need to be able to progress forward in the organization? So this is definitely an element, you know, when it comes to , uh, equitable processes and belongings that is now taking pause and critical for organizations to get a really lens in how they're measuring this by, in , by enabling data and working with their diversity officer leader as well as, you know, their analytic team and other areas , um, within the people HR function to really see how the move the needle , um, in this area.

Speaker 2: 20:56

Okay . Okay . Now then, you and I , uh, are both involved in different ways with the awesome organization , uh, led by , uh, the fantastic Enrique called Hacking hr. I'm sure most of our listeners would've heard of hacking hr. I'm, I'm one of the , uh, chapter organizers of the, of the Toronto , uh, events, although, you know, haven't been any in-person events for a couple of years, but hopefully 2022 will , uh, will change all of that <laugh> . Um , and , and you're , you're , you're a founding member of the Hacking HR, HR Expert Council . Tell me a bit about the , the council and why you got involved.

Speaker 3: 21:28

Absolutely. This is actually something new that came about, you know, in the fall of 2021 last year , um, where the founder of, you know, hacking hr, you know, found, you know, we're a community of HR leaders and executives to connect, share ideas, be a sounding boards to each other, but also share knowledge , um, to the industry and in my way and how I got involved. I'm very passionate about, you know , people, organizations , um, organizational behavior and hr, and really, for me, that comes back to humanity . So this is my way of giving back to the field , um, and also be that knowledge , um, exchange amongst my peers and also being able to learn from their experiences and , you know, what they, you know, concurrent in their organizations as well. So, great community to connect with. If you guys haven't, you know, connected with, I think throughout the year, hacking hr, you know, hosts various events , um, as well as, you know, in your local cities as Bill mentioned, definitely an area to tap into, to, you know , increase and elevate your knowledge and, and stay post to what's going on in the industry , um, is a great , it's a great resource.

Speaker 2: 22:46

It is indeed. Uh, some, if somewhere back in the feed for the HR chat pod listeners , um, you'll be able to find an interview that I did with Enrique Rubio. Uh , lovely chat . Uh , please do check that one out as well. Hey, Tyrone, we're almost out of time. Before we do wrap up for today, how can our listeners learn more about you, maybe connect with you through LinkedIn, email, perhaps you're all over TikTok, te tell us more.

Speaker 3: 23:08

Yes, so if , definitely, if you like to find me feel , please feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. Um, you can find me under Tyrone Smith , um, there, or if you would like to connect with me on my , um, social personal platform, feel free to follow me on Twitter. Um , that's , um, Dr. Underscore t Smith . Um, those are two platforms, you know, that I use to share knowledge , um, primarily LinkedIn. So feel free to connect with me on either two platforms. And Bill , this discussion has been great. Thank you for allowing me to contribute and I hope those that are listen out listening, learn something from it today.

Speaker 2: 23:49

Yeah, absolutely. I , I certainly have. And uh, that just leads me to say for today, Dr. Tyrone Smith , Jr . It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for being my guest today.

Speaker 3: 23:59

Absolutely. It's been a pleasure

Speaker 2: 24:02

And listeners as always. Until next time, happy working.

Speaker 1: 24:08

Thank you for listening to the HR Chat brought to you by the HR .