Upskill Or Be Outpaced: Leading People Through AI, Skills Gaps, And Constant Change with Jennifer McClure

In this episode, Bill Banham sits down with Jennifer McClure, founder of DisruptHR, to explore how HR leaders can turn people strategy into measurable business results, build credible investment cases, and lead in an era where AI is reshaping work faster than plans can keep up.

We start by tackling one of HR’s toughest barriers: resistance. Why do leaders shy away from quantifying problems, modeling outcomes, and tying people initiatives directly to business strategy? Jennifer shares a practical, trust-building approach to business cases—define the pain or opportunity, run the numbers, make predictions, and commit to measurement.

From there, we look at HR’s historical roots in welfare and regulation to understand why some processes still lag today—and how to disrupt what no longer serves the organization. Think fewer blanket policies, more targeted solutions, and an uncompromising focus on value.

The conversation widens to DisruptHR’s global impact—170+ licensed cities and more than 10,000 lightning talks—and why its simple format continues to surface powerful ideas across cultures. We also dig into AI’s accelerating influence on work, the shift from a scarcity of people to a scarcity of skills, and why upskilling and reskilling must be tied directly to evolving roles.

Jennifer also reframes personal branding for HR leaders as career management: share what you’re learning, cite credible sources, invite debate, and build trust through consistent, useful contributions.

We close with some straight talk on manager training: attendance is not impact. Start with outcomes, measure behavior change, and require application in the flow of work.

If you’re ready to move HR from compliance to catalyst—and help your organization thrive amid uncertainty—this episode offers clear, practical steps you can use today.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Guest Intro
• 1:39 Mindset Shifts And Business Impact
• 3:15 HR’s Past And Why Systems Must Change
• 6:33 DisruptHR Events And Global Growth
• 12:05 Hitting 10,000 Talks And Scaling Video
• 15:20 Local Flavors And Event Formats
• 19:26 2025 Trends, AI, And Skills Gaps
• 26:20 Authenticity And Personal Branding
• 33:20 Rethinking Manager Training Outcomes

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:02

Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, talented, tech enthusiasts, and business leaders. For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media, and visit hrgazette.com.

SPEAKER_02: 0:25

Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show. Hello, listeners. This is your host today, Bill Batham. And back on the show is uh HR Royalty, Jennifer McClure, founder of Disrupt HR. Jennifer, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_01: 0:40

I'm doing well. If if I'm royalty, do I get any stipends? Does anybody pay me anything just for existing?

SPEAKER_02: 0:46

Uh they absolutely should. Yes. And and we can we can leave a donation link in the show notes. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 0:54

I would like to be supported as every royal family is.

SPEAKER_02: 0:59

Well, uh let less family members at the moment look like they're being supported, but uh that's a different conversation for a different time. Um so the the the conversation today is a bit of a catch-up. We we spoke uh on this show less than a year ago. So before uh before jumping on with you today, I was doing my homework and finding out what you're getting up to, what you've what you've been doing in the last little while. So let's start with you recently highlighted uh five mindset shifts that leaders need at the moment. Which which one do HR leaders most resist? And how can you or how can they practice in in this quarter and the next quarter?

SPEAKER_01: 1:39

Uh I mean, I think HR leaders and well, leaders in general really resist a lot of things when it comes to getting uncomfortable and discomfort, but I think they resist um building the business case for what they need to do. It's still kind of our mode of operation as leaders to say, I heard about this thing, it sounds like the right thing to do, I'm gonna go ask for money to do it, you know, instead of sitting down and saying, I need to figure out what problem I'm solving in my organization or what opportunity I can take advantage of. And then I need to run the numbers to define that problem or opportunity, and I need to make some predictions and projections about if we do this or we don't do that, you know, how that's going to impact the bottom line and the finances. And is this even related to our goals? So I think the resistance around getting real clarity on how we can impact business goals and work on problems and opportunities that are focused on our organization's needs, it's just too easy to both look at shiny things or to do nothing. And that's where I think a lot of us fail.

SPEAKER_00: 2:47

The HR Chat Podcast is one of the world's most popular shows, offering insights and tips from HR pros, business leaders, industry influencers, and tech experts. World of work topics covered include HR tech, AI, leadership, talent, recruitment, employee engagement, wellness, DEI, and company culture. Check out the latest HR chat episodes on your podcast platform of choice and read the latest articles at hrgazette.com.

SPEAKER_02: 3:15

You and I were chatting before we hit record today, Jen. And uh regular listeners of this show will know that uh I'm involved with a bunch of the disrupt events and I love them, and I'm always espousing how awesome they are to anybody that I will meet. Uh, one of the chapters I'm involved with is Disrupt London. Um and uh you mentioned to me uh that you had recently spoken uh at the New York uh chapter, and apparently they have just had uh Disrupt New York 30.0. So we are hot on their heels in London. So you did a talk in New York, and your session was um was challenging assumptions uh about HR. Um why don't you why don't you tell us more? What did you what did you speak about? How was the event? What were some of the hope for out learning outcomes?

SPEAKER_01: 4:04

Sure. I don't remember the exact title, but I think it was uh something like HR is broken, uh, and instead of fixing it, let's disrupt it instead. Uh and I I do believe that, you know. Well, I do believe that a lot of people believe HR is broken. I don't think it's broken. I think it just needs to be transformed and disrupted. Because if we look back at the history of human resources, which started out as the employee welfare department at National Cash Register, about 30 miles from me here in Dayton, Ohio, in the 40s, I believe. It was set up as, you know, a welfare department to, you know, to help employees take care of kind of their personal needs. You know, it was wartime and uh they started within the unions came after that. So it became a lot of um really, you know, focused on individual needs and making sure that we're keeping people in line through regulations. And a lot of us have not evolved from that. I think, you know, in the 80s, when I started in HR, it was definitely still administrative and personnel. And since then, I do think many HR leaders have been able to make that leap into really being a leader in the business who has HR expertise and who does focus on the strategies that are needed to, you know, to align the people strategy to the business strategy. But too many and it of people and too much of HR is still focused on outdated systems and processes that are really aligned to the way HR was set up. So I think we need to bust those systems. We need to think about again how we can add real impact, how we can make sure we're moving away from compliance and consistency to making sure that we are helping our organizations to thrive in uncertainty and being someone who uses data to understand the real challenges in the business. So, you know, I don't believe HR is broken. I believe the systems need to change that we were set up to maintain, uh, and also the mindset needs to be changed. And I am thrilled to see, you know, when I do get the opportunity to go to disrupt HR events or I have opportunity to watch some of the videos as I'm uploading the thousands we get every year. Um, I I am encouraged and it gives me hope when I see how some people are viewing the world of HR or sharing their, you know, successes or what they've tried or something they've implemented. And that was why Disrupt HR was created, to really not only give people an opportunity to showcase those ideas, but also for others to be able to hear them and get inspired. So at New York, I tried to talk about how I think we're on the path to leading disruption and transformation, and many people are already leading on that path, but it's time for the rest of the profession to come along.

SPEAKER_02: 6:42

Okay, very good. Is your video live now on Bimeo and on the disrupt website for the viewing pleasure of our listeners?

SPEAKER_01: 6:51

It's not yet. Uh it was just two weeks ago, so probably within the next couple of weeks. Um, you know, we have some, it's always fun. Some organizers, one this year sent me their videos the very next day. And I'm like, wow, what whoa. Um, and then some of the people I'm chasing for videos three to four months down the road. So, you know, what what does tend to happen is they all come in at the same time. So, right now, today, for example, when we're recording this, is October 23rd, 2025. And it is a uh, I don't know what we call it in Disrupt HR world, but today around the world, well, actually in North America, there are 13 Disrupt HR events scheduled for today. Um, which, you know, last year was a record year for Disrupt HR events. This year will be, we'll beat that record in terms of the number of events around held around the world. In some months, we don't even have 13 events. You know, some of the lighter months, spring and fall, you know, they're heavier. October was the busiest month last year. We will have more events this year, but to have 13 in one day, and again, I looked at um Monday when I did our newsletter to share on LinkedIn. Uh, there are a couple in Canada on both sides of Canada. There's one in Monterey, in Monterey, Mexico, so we got the southern part of North America covered. And then in the US, they're literally completely spread. You know, there's one in Seattle, there's one in Tampa, there's one in Phoenix, there's one in um, you know, or somewhere up in the northeast, and then there are a bunch in the middle of the country. So it's, you know, that's exciting to see. Uh, but I also look at that and go, that means videos from 13 cities are coming my way, probably all on the same day, and everybody's gonna be like, can you get them about tomorrow?

unknown: 8:32

Like, you know, I do my best.

SPEAKER_02: 8:35

Okay, so when we last spoke, I think you you mentioned that there were over 9,000 videos on the disrupt website. We we we've got to be touching 10,000 now, haven't we?

SPEAKER_01: 8:46

Uh we're we're I believe we're over 10,000 now. We are definitely at uh on Vimeo where we we post our videos and pay for the hosting. We are about to hit seven terabytes of storage, which is the limit on video. So that you know they're sending me emails now about quote custom pricing. So that sounds scary. Um, but seven terabytes of uh disrupt HR videos out there. And again, yeah, I haven't looked at the exact number. I think last time I looked it was like 9,800 and something. Um, so it's definitely probably well, it will go over 10,000 this month if it's not already.

SPEAKER_02: 9:22

Oh my gosh. Um, I'm stepping up, I'm doing a few more myself. I I I I keep telling people how to do them, but I've only done a couple so far. So I've got two or three lined up over the next little while. Um okay, so 13, 13 events in one day. How many cities have hosted a disrupt over the years?

SPEAKER_01: 9:40

Oh, I could look that up. But um right now we have I I count the numbers at the end of every month, but I also have a spreadsheet with all the licensed cities. We have over 170 licensed cities in 32 countries now, I believe. Um, and we've never, you know, for years, even you know, pre-TAM pandemic, when Disrupt HR was really growing, um, and then we, you know, a bunch of people found different priorities after the pandemic and neither didn't renew the licenses and we dropped back down to 130 something, I think. Now we're back, we've hit gone over 170 licensed cities around the world. So um, you know, again, that's exciting to see that disrupt HR it it doesn't seem to lose steam. You know, maybe someday, you know, it will be something that that people did in the past. And, you know, there are license holders every so often who they've been doing it for years and they they don't renew the license because they just either want to let someone else take it on or their priorities have changed. But it seems like, and it's it's always fun for me to see the new new cities, new regions come on, and you know, nothing's really popping to mind right now. But uh to see disrupt HR come to cities that I actually have to look up on the map, you know, geography, world geography may not be my strong suit in the anyways, but when I'm like, okay, I've heard of that country before, but where is this city? Um, that excites me. And and to have more an international locations where the videos are not in English. Um, and also to see, you know, many of our organizers in some of our international cities have told me that, you know, it's an honor and a challenge. I mean, honor might be the wrong word, for people to give a talk in English. So they actually want to give a disrupt HR talk so they can give it in English. And I admire that because I can't imagine giving a disrupt HR talk, which is already a challenge in not your native language. Um, so that's that again, you know, to to see people challenge themselves in a variety of ways to share their ideas, uh, to fight that fear of getting up on stage and speaking, and for many even seasoned speakers to fight the fear of the 15-second, you know, slides. Um, it's it's uh fun to see the videos that I do get to see or the conversations that I do get to have. And then in the Middle East and in some of our, you know, Eastern European cities, it seems like they're really making it all day events, you know, with Disrupt HR talks either spread throughout the day or a portion of their event. And when I see photos on LinkedIn or posts on LinkedIn, people are addressed, you know, very formally in suits and they post again about the honor of uh you know being asked to present at Disrupt HR. So to see the, and that's we've always allowed our organizers to, you know as long as they have five-minute talks with 20 slides in advance every 15 seconds, as long as they hold at least one live event a year, as long as they record the talks and nobody pitches or cells, they really can make the feel of their events or set up the events however they want that's going to match with their community. And and I think that's part of what makes Disrupt HR successful. You can go to an event in Islamabad, Pakistan, and it's an all-day event on Saturday, and you dress up in a suit and you give your talk, you know, in English, and uh you're very honored, or you can go to, you know, I won't pick on a city, but a city where it's held in a bar and there's 30 people there, and uh, you know, somebody's grandma is doing the video and A of V. So, you know, that that uh I like that about Disrupt HR.

SPEAKER_02: 13:21

My first experience of disrupts was with the Toronto chapter when I was living over there. And uh I've always taken their approach to the events I'm involved with. Um i.e. I'll get up on stage and I'll say, you know, this is not like another one of those dry HR events. We're pretty chill here, we're quite nice people. Yes, we'll brush our hair, but I always wear jeans, you know, and we try and keep it relaxed. I I don't think you'll ever find me in a suit at a disrupt event. Oh, there we go. That's just that's just me. Um okay, continuing through, let's talk a bit about your 2025 trends conversation, Jen. You you mapped out the big shifts at the beginning of this year, shaping talent strategy. Which one of those has maybe accelerated the fastest since the beginning of 2025? And what what's your updated playbook look like?

SPEAKER_01: 14:09

You know, I I I failed to look at my 25 trends that we talked about, or 2025, but I can assure you that like most people who do predictions and trends every year, I was probably wrong on a few of them. I was probably right around saying that we're going to be dealing with you know constant change and disruption. I I was, if I did say that, I was remiss on uh the pace of change and the level of disruption I think that uh people around the world in the business world and in life in general have experienced. I don't think um, you know, obviously AI is completely new. You know, the internet was new at one time, social media was new at one time, the industrial revolution, the printing press was new at one time, you know, so no one really knew what any of those changes would mean. But I think with AI, it's just it's it's disrupting, you know, the workplace, our lives. And I don't think any of us really have a good idea of how exactly we're going to be interacting with it, using it, how it's going to take over our lives and become our our overlords. I don't, I don't know. So I think anyone who's talking about 2026, which of course we're getting into prediction season, we'll start to see those posts show up on LinkedIn maybe in November. Um, and I'm sure I'll write one too. But you know, we we have to consider I keep talking about and I'm trying to focus leaders on, making sure that we are looking at AI as a way to empower our employees, um, a way for them to enhance their work that they do, to focus on more strategic activities. And when you say that, I mean somebody who's doing data entry is not going to focus on more, you know, but they should be looking at how they're going to upscale themselves so that, you know, new jobs will be created that are coming from this. And that is where, particularly, I think, HR people leaders, L and D, recruiting, we're in that space of, okay, yeah, AI is disrupting the world and the workplace and changing the way we do things and making some you know activities and jobs no longer necessary. But we have to be in that space and that mindset of thinking about, you know, before AI really became a thing two or three years ago, uh, we were all predicting a talent shortage. And we've been predicting that, you know, for 20 plus years. McKinse predicted it back, you know, for 2020, back in 19 or in 2000. Uh, so we've been saying there's not going to be enough bodies to perform the work. The demographics are in our favor in the UK and in the US and in more of the developed countries in some of the you know uh lesser developed countries, the population may be exploding, but that's not where the jobs and the work are today. So we've had that challenge that we were kind of thinking about, well, if there's not gonna be enough people, how do we get the work done? Um now we're gonna maybe have still not enough people, but we're gonna have an excess of people who don't have the skills that we need to do the jobs that we will have today and in the future. So if you're not thinking about as a leader in general, as a C-suite leader, uh, as a business owner, as a people leader who works in one of those HR-related um, you know, functions, if you're not thinking about how we're going to give people, get people the skills and allow them to upskill and reskill and focus on continuous learning, you are already behind the eight-ball and you're just going to get left in the dust, I think, you know, over the next few months, because that's gonna be the core issue is we don't have the people who have the skills to do the jobs. And even then, with the people that are available, there aren't enough of them. So, how do we get those people the valuable skills that they need to do the jobs of today and the future when we can't even predict what the future is gonna look like in a couple of months?

SPEAKER_02: 17:59

I feel like you've articulated that situation better than pretty much any guest that held this show when I've when I've tried to probe them. So good work. I feel like you've done this before. Um, yeah, you you joined the Now of Work podcast this summer, Jen, to talk about authenticity. I think you like, did I? And personal branding. Um, what's your advice to HR leaders who want to build a brand without feeling performative?

SPEAKER_01: 18:26

For me, the core of it is that too many people look at personal branding or you know, taking control of how other people view them as a marketing activity. You know, I I don't want to be, I've heard it a thousand times. I don't want to be like a toothpaste on the shelf. I feel icky marketing myself. And I'm like, you have to view this as a career management tool. You have to view this as a way to get access to opportunities that you want to be involved in, things you want to learn. You know, the reality is for since the beginning of time, you know, people have gotten opportunities because they're either asking for them or people know that they're interested in them. Other people in the workplace look at that and they go, Oh, that's favoritism. You just promoted your favorite. And I don't think that's the case. There was a Disruptive Dart Toronto talk way early in the beginning, one of their first events that I've always said is one of my favorites, where the title of the talk, which is what drew me in to watch the video, was why you should play favorites in leadership. Um, and and to me, that's the whole point of disruptive. Take a common concept, flip it, flip it, and you know, make your case for why you should do that. So it was a great talk, and and what she talked about is what I'm talking about now. These people that are your quote favorites are the ones who are actually doing the work, who are making it known what they're doing, who are sharing where they want to go and what they do. You know, the people that you actually have to probe and dig and go ask them what they'd like to do in their career. Uh, you know, sure, as a leader, I should be having those conversations with my people. But when opportunities come, who's the first person that comes to mind? It's the person who's been making it known that they're either doing that already or they want to do that. So that's how we should be, you know, and HR people, uh, people leaders again often are of the mindset, well, I kind of want to be in the background, I'm supporting other people. I'm like, that is great. And it's part of the role. However, if you want to do more of something, if you want to grow your career, if you want to be known as a person who's an expert in this, you have to tell people what you know. So you're not marketing yourself as a tube-to-toothpaste, you're simply sharing what you do. If we just basic content, just share what you know. I mean, LinkedIn is full of posts every day. Uh, many of them are just content for content's sake for people who are just, you know, going to ChatGPT and say, write a LinkedIn post for me. And it sounds like it was written by Chat GPT. But if you just say, hey, like we were talking before we started recording, you went to the HR Tech conference. After the HR Tech conference, when you went, write a post on LinkedIn, or if you do have a blog or a website, or even to share on your company internet. I attended HR Tech last week. Here's what I learned. Here's what I saw is happening in the industry. Here are some trends that I think we should be paying attention to either in our profession or in our industry or our company. Share what you're talking about, what you're learning, what you're curious about, what your questions are. I mean, I try to share when I subscribe to a lot of research, you know, reports. I get emails from McKinsey, from Gallup, you know, those those organizations that are doing studies, et cetera. When I get an interesting study, I try to share that on LinkedIn. I read this post from the Guild group who did a meeting of Minds of 12 CHROs, and here's what their predictions were of where HR is headed in the future. Here's what I think about that. What do you think about that? That that is what thought leadership is. You don't have to have the answers, but thought leadership is both curating what's going on around you, having an opinion about it, sharing it, being willing and open to uh create conversation around that so that you can learn from other people's thoughts and ideas. So the basic concept of uh really tending to your personal brand, just share what you know. People often ask me, you know, they'll reach out and say, hey, I'd like to be a professional speaker like you, Jennifer. Can we get on a 60-minute Zoom call, which we can't just have old school phone calls anymore. I don't know why. We can't just talk on the phone. Uh, let's get on a Zoom call. And I'd love to get your, you know, pick your brain uh on how to become a professional speaker. And I'm like, teach what you know. I started teaching people how to use LinkedIn back when LinkedIn was relatively new. That turned into people inviting me into their organizations to teach their leaders how to use LinkedIn, how to use their HR, you know, how their HR recruiting team could use LinkedIn. And then I realized I really like this speaking thing. What other things do I know that I can teach people? Uh and now I teach people how to be, you know, leaders and thrive in the future of work because that's where I'm interested, what I'm interested in, and what I'm constantly learning and what I want to share with people. So that's an impassioned long answer to your question of what is personal branding and why is it important and what should we be doing? Just teach what you know.

SPEAKER_02: 23:07

Love it. Thank you. Um, yeah, I miss the audio calls, by the way. But when I started doing this podcast in 2016, nobody asked you to put the video on. You didn't have to have the camera on. But you know, these days it's it's a complete social paper.

SPEAKER_01: 23:22

Well, and now when you do a podcast interview, you need to ask the question like, is this also gonna be a video? Because I have too many videos out there on the internet of me uh not looking camera ready because I didn't know we were doing a video podcast.

SPEAKER_02: 23:39

Uh I I did what you just mentioned there, actually, uh, on the back of um HR Tech, uh two days later, I had a disrupt in Manchester and um I I shared my my findings with the audience there, but they glazed over a little bit. So I did a truncated I did a truncated version at Disrupt Noric the following week, and they seemed to like that a bit more. So I think it was perhaps to do with my delivery. Um just a couple more questions for you for today, Jen. Your SHERM executive network piece focused on leadership development. If you had to redesign manager training for 2026, what would you cut, keep, and create?

SPEAKER_01: 24:14

Well, that Sherm article was uh someone from SHERM actually came to my my session at the SHERM annual conference where I'm talking about HR being the chief disruption officer and leading transformation in the future. Um but you know, how should they redesign training or think about it in the future again? I think we need to we need to have a different mindset when it comes to to learning and development rather than just creating courses or content around a popular topic and um or something that we know leaders need. I mean, I always joke about how many of us have been sent to you know dealing with difficult people or how to how to read financial statements as an HR person. You know, there's there's you know, skills again that we need to develop, but we have to again take the mindset of this is about creating a learning environment. And we also need to make sure that the training and learning and development that we are offering to our employees is not just measured by attendance. Okay, we had this training course, 60 people attended, you know, or 60 people were invited and 55 of them showed up. So 97% success rate, whatever that math is. Um, and that's how we've often measured, quote, success in learning and development in the past was who showed up, who attended, who got the certificate. What we need to do is when we're designing training and development for organizations, is say what are the outcomes that will come as a result of people attending this training? What will they be able to do more of? What impact will they have on one of our business goals and objectives? What was the number for the, you know, rev top line revenue before we sent all of our salespeople to this training? And then six months later, did that go up as a result of what they learned in that training? And can we pinpoint what they did differently as a result of that training? So it's really much more, I think, about focusing on before we even start the training, what are the outcomes that we're trying to generate? How are we going to measure success of those outcomes? Again, what what is it today? How are we going to measure that it actually, you know, was impacted positively after the training? And that's where we have to focus. Because we, especially in a post-pandemic world when you know more people have figured out how to do training even on their own time, you know, for their own enjoyment. They watch LinkedIn learning courses or YouTube videos, or they learning opportunity is all around us. So the challenge now, again, when you have uh a plethora of options, is to say what is really important? What is it that I need to develop uh, you know, or work on or learn in order to do my job with the way my job is changing and the skills that are needed to do my job are changing. And then how can I both um target that training, get the training that I need, but then also measure how it well, how effective it was for me after I've done it? You know, the fact that I watched a LinkedIn training course on, you know, implementing AI and HR in 2025. I'm sure there is one out there on that. You know, what's five things you can do with AI and HR? Okay, I watched that. Great. Did I do any of those? Did I try one? You know, the goal before I start the training should be I'm going to pick at least one thing that I learned from this training and I'm going to actually do it. Um, you know, just watching the training is not enough. And I think that's the mindset shift, both for the trainees and the people who are developing the training that needs to happen.

SPEAKER_02: 27:32

Loving all of these answers. Uh, just finally for today, how can our listeners connect with you? And as part of your answer, as HR royalty, Jen, um what's what's the right way of going about, you know, if if if some bozo like me wants to reach out to a big old celeb in the industry um and and start a conversation with them for the first time, what what's the right way of doing that? What what what's the right approach? What works for you as opposed to messages that perhaps just turn you off and you don't want to get back to them?

SPEAKER_01: 27:58

Oh, the messages that turn me off are the ones that uh that lists, you know, write some uh message on LinkedIn or send me an email and say, you know, I've been following your work for years. I'd love to schedule a call and talk about how we can partner. Because partner often means you want in on some some of my business when we don't know each other, you know. So uh you're reaching out to me out of the blue, out of you know, nowhere, wanting to partner means that you're you're trying to build your business, not mine, more than likely. And maybe I'm wrong in some of those cases, but most often not. What I tell people, if you want to connect with uh, you know, more than just follow someone, uh do follow their work, but also engage with them on their work. You know, sign up for my newsletter, reply. I ask every week or every two weeks when I send my news. I'd love for you to reply and tell me what you know you thought about this or whatever, because that's a I'm trying to generate a conversation. I'm trying to get to know you back to what I said earlier. I'm sharing what I know, but I'd like to know what you think about what I said. You know, what are your ideas different? So when you truly want to engage with someone that you haven't met or you don't know, uh follow their work, engage with it. Often people will see me at a conference or event and they're go, I love what you post on LinkedIn. I'm like, uh, I I don't recognize your name. I've never seen you like a post or comment on it. And you might think that's vanity, but again, I'd love to know that something I said resonated with you or that you disagree with it, or you have a different take, as you know, let's all be respectful, and most people are. Um, that's how we can't there are numerous people that are in my network today. I I always share the example of Bruce Waller, a gentleman here in the US who's a a VP at a relocation company, you know, so people that relocate when you get a new job and you have to relocate across the country, uh, Bruce will help you. So, you know, if you see someone like Bruce reaching out to you on LinkedIn who says they want to, you know, have a Zoom call and figure out how we can partner, I'm immediately thinking Bruce wants to sell me on something because I don't do relocation. Uh, he's obviously his target customers are probably in the HR industry. But very early on when I started my podcast back in 2018, uh, I had seen Bruce's name. Again, he'd interacted with my content that I posted on LinkedIn and stuff. But he would listen to my podcast every week. And then he would, in his notes app on his phone, take notes about some of the things he liked or that he learned or that you know he really resonated with him in the podcast. And then he would share that on social media, on LinkedIn or to his Instagram profile. You know, love listening to the Impact Makers podcast this week. Here's five things I learned. Again, sharing what he learned, but that also caused me to say, wow, Bruce is somebody who really does, you know, does it right, who is a connector, who's a relationship builder. He's not just telling me, you know, he wants to reach out to me and he never has because he wants to partner. But, you know, I invited Bruce to connect on LinkedIn because I see him sharing my content. I want to, you know, be connected to this person who's doing it right and building relationships. And, you know, since then I've been a guest on Bruce's podcast, and he's written a couple of books, and I have them, and I see him now speaking at conferences and events. That's someone that I can say the relationship developed because this person was validating my ideas or you know, sharing their own perspective on it, sharing it, you know, adding value to their network by helping to spread my message. And that's somebody I do want to read, you know, have conversations with and be connected with. So the easiest way to get a thought leader, or you know, if you you want to thank someone's royalty's attention is engage with their content, you know, read, sign up for the newsletter, reply to their newsletter, tell them you like it. Because I spent three hours on my email newsletter that I sent out this week, and it's less than 750 words, but I thoughtfully try to curate something that people will get value from. So when Claire Strowe in the US, who's someone that again I've connected with similarly, who's always engaged with my work, and now I recommend her to speak at events because I've seen her speak a couple of times. So when I send my newsletter at 7:35 a.m. and at nine o'clock, Claire replies to my newsletter and says, Love this newsletter. I'm adding the podcast you recommended to my queue to listen to. I love Claire for that, and I will continue to recommend her for speaking engagements and opportunities and find ways to help her grow her career and her brand because I'm invested in her now as well because of the relationship we've developed over the years. But she continues to stay engaged with me by making sure that I know she's out there paying attention.

SPEAKER_02: 32:39

Bruce, Claire, if you're listening, we love you. Uh, I just want to add a third person there who's always fantastic at uh commenting on posts and interacting and sharing and all the rest of it, is a mutual friend of ours, uh Steve Brown. So, Steve, if you're listening, uh you you do it right, sir. You are a rock star. Jen McConnell.

SPEAKER_01: 32:59

A comment from Steve Brown or Lori Rudeman on your LinkedIn post is go goal because now if you look, LinkedIn shows impress or impressions on comments or um, and if Steve or Lori comment on your post, they drive hundreds of impressions to your post. So that's another way, again, you can give as someone who maybe has a large network. When you comment and engage and interact with other people's content, you bring your network with you to their content.

SPEAKER_02: 33:22

Very good. Very good. Uh that just leads me to say for today, Jen McClure. Thank you very much for our regular catch-up here today. Uh I'll I'll be hounding you again in the last six months for another one of these.

SPEAKER_01: 33:33

Would love it.

SPEAKER_02: 33:35

Uh listeners, as always, until next time, happy working.

SPEAKER_03: 33:42

Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show. If you enjoyed this episode, why not subscribe and listen to some of the hundreds of episodes published by HR Gazette? And remember, for what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media, and visit hrgazette.com.