All Around Growth
All Around Growth — reflections on faith, freedom, and finding purpose through Orthodox Christian living, formation, and the long work of becoming.
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All Around Growth
Ep. 460 - Cody Grey on Living and Providing
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Cody Matthew Grey is an authentic human who wants to be close to his resources.
He is a hunter, forager, and market grower, selling direct to consumer through farmers' markets and online.
He provides resources for himself and his family, primarily food, through hunting, gathering, and cultivating domesticated plants.
Join Rob for a recent interview with Cody, where we dive into topics including his personal background and travels (including Slab City and Mexico), various farming endeavors and the journey that ended up with him being a full time market grower.
We discuss successes and challenges along the way, physical and mental fitness, work / life balance, hobbies, what it takes to be a market grower, parenting and fatherhood, favorite books and podcasts, and more. This is a show you won't want to miss!
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#humans #love #life #people #humanity #hunting #spirituality #hunt #outdoors #hunter #deerhunting #foraging #nature #mushrooms #wildfood #fungi #farmersmarket #supportlocal #eatlocal #organic #realfood #farm #organic #homesteading #father #dad #family #fatherhood #westonaprice #raw
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Discussion Links:
Ep. 437 - Happy Anniversary to the Founders!
Ep. 417 - Why We Have a Tenant Farmer
Food Forest Farms - Enterprises - Food Forest Farms Coffee ...
Follow Cody Matthew Grey on Facebook
Follow Cody Matthew Grey on Instagram
Yellow House Cheese Online Store
Everything You Need to Know About California’s Slab City
WhoIsDap: D.A.P.
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DAP INC. Excuse Me Everybody Podcast - YouTube
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Newsletter - York Meadow Farm
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Hi there and welcome back to another episode of the All Around Growth Podcast. My name is Rob Kaiser and I am your host. Today is Tuesday, November 8th, 2022, and this is episode number 460 of a show where you join me with my family on our small farm in Homestead, where we talk about the five W's and how as we all grow along with the family business here at York Meadow Farm. But it's not just me and my family here on the farm. You see, we're turning this farm into something of a cooperative of sorts. It's a collaborative effort with more and more people actively putting in work and delivering results. And today we're going to be highlighting one of those people and sharing a recent interview with them. Now, as the show has continued to grow and evolve, we've begun to include interviews in the show. Now last month we had an interview that was a remastered interview with my parents, the founders of York Meadow Farm, which I will link to in the show notes, and that was episode number 437 titled Happy Anniversary to the Founders. And this month, I'm not only pleased, but I'm also very excited to share the second interview of the show with you, a personal interview with Cody Gray, who actively manages the market garden here that is a little bigger than one acre, including a 30 by 96 high tunnel. Now I spoke about the history of how Cody came to manage the market gardens here at York Meadow Farm on September 8th of this year in an episode titled Why We Have a Tenant Farmer, and I will link to that in the show notes for ease of reference as well. And that was episode number 417, again titled Why We Have a Tenant Farmer. Now the long and short of it is that for all of us to accomplish the goals that we have in life, we need to work together. And that is exactly what we are doing here on the Homestead at York Meadow Farm. Part of the reason for the introduction like this is to give those of you who are new to the show some background and some context, if you want to pause this episode and listen to the previous two. This would allow you to gain even more insight into the discussion that I recorded with Cody this past Saturday morning on November 5th. So if you'd like to pause the show and go back and listen to the interview with my parents, that was episode number 437, titled Happy Anniversary to the Founders, along with the episode detailing out why we have a tenant farmer and the full backstory about how Cody ended up working the land here. Now is the time to do that. Because we don't really talk too much about that during our discussion together. Again, this is your final chance to jump off and get up to speed before we jump into the interview. And I hope that you enjoy and interview Cody. And for those of you who listen to the show, I've talked about Cody in the past, and this has generated enough interest that for the second interview of the show, we decided to bring you on. So the primary goal of today's episode is to provide a bit of background about the one and only uh Cody Matthew Gray. And uh to provide a bit of structure, I guess we will break it down into four segments with just some personal background questions, some small farming, homesteading, and audience-related questions, and then just some random random, you know, random and off-the-wall questions, and then we'll just have a few questions to close it out. But before I get into anything else, any questions of my own or questions from the audience, how about you tell us a little bit in your own words from your own mouth, who is Cody Gray? Tell us a little bit about yourself.
SPEAKER_02Um I'm not really sure how to answer that, but I guess when people get asked that question, they usually talk about stuff that they do, I guess, and that's who you are, who I am is what I do, right? Yeah, right. Or is it how I feel? I don't know. That's what people do. That's what people do. Uh so I guess I am what I do. That's what I am. So uh uh I I'm like a grower, uh a small, a small, like a market gardener, a market grower. I don't know about farmer, but yeah, market grower. Um, so I grow fruits, vegetables, plants, uh roots, leaves for market for um direct consumer sales mostly through farmers markets and do some online sales as well. Um and uh as far as other things that I do, um I'm a big time hunter. Um I I I just try to provide resources that I need on the daily. I try to uh gather those resources myself or try to stay close to them. So most of that is food. Um so it comes through growing food, uh gathering some wild foods, and then uh growing a lot of domesticated plants, basically. Um so yeah, I'm a human who wants to be close to my resources. That's that's kind of who I am.
SPEAKER_01That's a much better answer than what a lot of people provide with an answer as far as who they are. I'm a software engineer, I'm a garbage man, I'm a janitor, I'm a you know, because you you said I mean you said that, but then without a doubt, like and this is that that was actually a pretty cool way to answer a question because immediately it provides people with an understanding of why you do what you do.
unknownCorrect.
SPEAKER_01So there's that. True. Um you you you you grew up and went to high school around here, but you didn't spend all of your life around here, right? No. Um but when you know when you were in like going back to the high school days, okay. Um was there did you have any I don't know if you did this like like we did in school. Were there did you take those, you know, assessment tests from from guidance counselors that that you know said this is this is what you're gonna, you know, this was what you would be a good fit for, or did you have any dreams in high school about what you wanted to be when you grew up?
SPEAKER_02I don't remember taking any tests like that. Um I don't ever really remember talking to a guidance counselor at all in school. Um and then as far as having things that I wanted to do when I was in school or what I thought I wanted to do, um now I had no fucking clue.
SPEAKER_01No idea. So at what point, you know, what what at what at some point though you made the decision to to get into market farming and you know foraging and you know providing as many resources for yourself as possible. When did when did that that take place? Because I can't imagine you were in high school out, uh you know, you know, growing growing crops for market and foraging mushrooms and ramps and stuff.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no. Um no, I mean I did I did I did hunt uh I did do deer hunting. I mean I've been deer hunting since I was a kid because of my dad. But uh as far as all the market gardening and that business, um no, I didn't start that until after I traveled. Uh I traveled around the country for a couple years, two different times though, um for extended periods, just like in my car by myself and yeah, for like a couple years total. And I don't know how many 30-something states like lived in them, hung out in them for a long for various periods of time, and hung out on some farms out west and helped on some farms, not really technically woofing, but kind of like woofing. There was really no agreements or anything. Um, I was just like hanging out, and yeah, so I spent a decent amount of time in California, Southern California. Um working on some farms, helping on some farms, spent a little bit of time in Mexico working on some farms. Um so I guess that that kind of influenced it. Um so when I came back to Ohio after all the travel, um I started working on a local farmers uh place, actually.
SPEAKER_01And and that's uh that that's a perfect question. When uh what when did you return to Ohio? Like approximately what year? Oh yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Um honestly, I'm trying to I'll I'll try to think about it.
SPEAKER_01We we talked about this the other day though, you know, roughly, and it was because we were talking about being in Southern California roughly around the same time. Okay, yeah. And by the time I moved back here, like you were already here, you were here for I think a season or two. Yeah. So like let's just say like 2011, 2012 or whatever. Yeah, probably somewhere around there, yeah. And the reason I I kind of asked that is so you you traveled out west and were bouncing, you said a couple different occasions. Um what was the like what was the driver to to to do that in the first place? And did you did you set out somewhere or did you did you just hit the road?
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, no, I I mapped it all out. Like I mean, I didn't s really stick to the trip, but I this was before this was before like this was before smartphones, like, or at least I didn't have a smartphone. Um I actually got I got my mom actually bought me a cell phone for when I left to travel because she was terrified. Um but I didn't have a phone before then, and then I got like a little, I don't even know if it was a flip phone, honestly, some kind of little phone, whatever. It didn't really work. But no, I I like had a map of the United States, like a roadmap. Um, and I had a laptop with me, but I'd only used it at libraries and stuff, basically. Um so I mapped out through all the states that I wanted to go to, all these different campgrounds and places where you could stay for free, supposedly. Uh and yeah, so I I kind of had it mapped out, but it didn't, of course it didn't go as as planned, but it was a good deal of it was mapped out, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay. But part of the yeah, part of things not not not going to plan it is half the adventure a lot of times.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, and I think you asked about why maybe to do that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I I mean I don't really know other than uh yeah, I don't know. I guess it wasn't a whole lot of what I was looking for around here, or I thought there wasn't what I was looking for around here. Um yeah, I don't know. I guess I guess I had some idea about like the world was so different elsewhere, or things were very different, not in northeast Ohio. But yeah, it kind of realized after the uh the years traveling around and all that that uh that it was really just me, you know. Uh that that uh it didn't really matter where I went because I'm still myself. So that was yeah, that's kind of the that was kind of the one of the major takeaways. Because so I guess leaving setting out on this trip or whatever you want to call it was not not really to, you know, quote unquote find myself or whatever. Not that I did find myself, but I realized that I am myself no matter where I go, and that mostly it's about your state of mind, my state of mind rather than where you are on the geographically, I guess.
SPEAKER_01Well said. What when you when you had you you mentioned that you were staying in campgrounds and you know you worked on some farms, not I mean sort of like a wolfing program, but not through that not through that program. Not through was that was working on some farms part of your plan prior to leaving, or did that kind of come into the into the into the into the whole situation like while you were on the road?
SPEAKER_02Just came into it, yeah. It came I I I I will I will say that I was uh I was a pretty serious vegan at the time. So I did have some sort of interest in how food was grown. And I did come up my parents had a garden, but they really didn't they didn't have much of an idea what was going on with it. But we did grow stuff, I mean, so I had an interest in uh food for sure. And I worked in I worked in some kitchens, so I I was pretty serious into cooking food and being a vegan, you know. Uh I did have an interest in yeah, uh vegetable, fruit and vegetable production.
SPEAKER_01And then okay, that that that makes sense. Um so in in in the travels and finding your way to Southern California and and throughout Mexico and working on some farms in both places, you had also mentioned in the past that that you spent some time at uh Slab City.
SPEAKER_02Yep. Yeah, two different times living in Slab City for example periods.
SPEAKER_01What uh what can you tell us? Well, first of all, um maybe there are some people that are going to hear this that that are completely unfamiliar with with Slab City. So maybe tell us a little bit about what Slab City is, like where it is.
SPEAKER_02Okay, yeah. I mean, I'm no historian on Slab City or whatever, but I'm sure from what I under from my, you know, from my uh shallow understanding of Slab City, uh it was an old military base, Navy, I believe. Um, and they like discontinued it. They moved the base on the other side of this mountain range in the Chocolate Mountains, which is a pretty cool mountain range, and it's in Nyland. Uh Nyland, I think Nyland's the county in California, so Southeastern California. It's in the desert, it's very desert, it's very hot in the summer and pretty cold in the winter. But um but yeah, so it's it at elevation in the middle of nowhere.
SPEAKER_01Is it is it at elevation?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's not at a high, yeah. I think it's like at elevated, you know what I'm saying? Oh, okay. Yeah, but then there's a mountain range. So you can see the mountain range in when you're in Slab City, you can see the chocolate mountains, but yeah, I'm pretty sure it's like sea level or something. Okay, it's yeah, it's flat out there.
SPEAKER_01When you said it got cold in the winter, it just made me wonder if it was up in the mountains or no, it just gets cold in the desert.
SPEAKER_02Okay, basically. Um, so yeah, it's this old uh military base. And I I mean this was I was out there a lot quite a few years ago, so I don't know how many people inhabited at this point, but when I was there, it was kind of a situation where there'd be like a hundred to 150 full-time residents of Slab City, and then up to like 500 people in the winter when the temperature was cooler. So basically just the diehard people lived there all year because the summer was so hot and oppressive heat, and just there's not a lot of water, and you know, that kind of thing. But it's basically a bunch of hippies, vagabonds, like you know, uh lots of different types of people, but you're just kind of like living for free in the desert. There's like not much authority out there, the cops don't really go out there very much. It's in the middle of nowhere, so you can kind of just do what you want. You can literally pull up with your bicycle or your motorhome or your car or whatever, and you could just pick a spot and you could stay there for indefinite amounts of time. No one's gonna tell you you have to leave, you know, if you're pretty chill and respectful or whatever. And uh I think it's a pretty unique place because I I don't think there's any place like that in the United States besides Slab City, as far as I know.
SPEAKER_01No, and it but it's it's because it's what how um like what would it be considered like like like unincorporated or um it I don't know I have no idea. I guess no idea. I guess that's for uh uh the internet side. Yeah, I guess uh look it up. I guess uh I will that will be something I won't include in the show notes because now I'm interested and I've it's a cool place. I looked it up and I've done a couple a quick cursory scrolls. And after we talked, especially um I saw a couple photos of what was the uh yeah, so that's Salvation Mountain.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, Leonard, he's dead now, but yeah, he uh he I think he was like one of the first people there, and he built this crazy ass mountain of trash and and uh like paper mache, and anything you can think of, and he just like car doors, regular doors, pieces of houses, you just like stuck it in.
SPEAKER_01And it's painted and it's this payhead, it's like a salvation devotion to God or something, though. It's it's very mountain. It's this what it's this, but it's it's cool, man. It's wild, it's like I mean in the middle of the desert. I I yeah, right. Real quick side note, there were there were a few people like in in Asheville that that I knew that were kind of in the Burning Man scene, yeah, that made a similar type of that like folk art kind of like I don't know how you describe it, but people that are listening or are I guess in this case now watching should check out um Salvation Mountain because it's like may would you say that maybe that sort of epitomizes the whole uh like uh sort of like scene or or or idea of of Slab City, just the the the kind of look of the the place, like you see that and you're like, yeah, like that's Slab City.
SPEAKER_02Or um, I don't know, because there's a lot of different shit going on in Slab City, but I if you go a little bit further past Salvation Mountain, there's a stage. I can't remember what it's called. There's like a stage out there with a bunch of solar panels, and it's like people have a jam. I think it's like that, it's like an open mic type of situation. I think like every Friday or Thursday, I can't remember the day. Yeah, yeah. And a bunch of people get up there and jam. It's mostly like people playing like old CCR covers and shit. Pretty bad ones, too. But um, yeah, it's I don't know. There's a lot of different shit going on. I mean, there's like a library there, there's restaurants there, like, and this is all kind of like DIY. It's like a lot of rainbow gathering people hang out there, you know what I'm saying? Um, there's a skate park there, or there used to be. I don't know if it's still there, but there's yeah, there's a skate park.
SPEAKER_01But it's like I mean, they've they've turned this place into a community. It's a little community, and yeah, and and people are there year-round, definitely less so in the summertime when it's when it's hot. Way less.
SPEAKER_02It's like 120 degrees. Like reverse snowbirds. Exactly. 120 degrees in the summer. It's it's insanely hot. Interesting. It's dry, but it's hot. It's like, yeah, super hot. But uh, quick thing is people people might know Salvation Mountain. People probably would know Salvation Mountain mostly. The biggest reference to Salvation Mountain, I think, is probably that movie Into the Wild, the Christopher, Christopher McCannless, that dude who died in Alaska, the young kid. I don't know if you've seen that.
SPEAKER_01I I I've I've seen the remembered that in it.
SPEAKER_02That was I Emile Hirsch played the character Christopher McCannless. I can't remember what his name he had like a pseudonym. Uh I can't remember a pseudo name. It was something cool. Um but yeah, it that was that was a pretty big part of that film. Okay. Because he ended up staying there for a while. Uh and he met a bunch of people there and like hung out with them for long periods of time or whatever. Um, but yeah, they actually so they actually show the stage and stuff and like the open mic, and he he supposedly did the open mic or whatever with some chick. I don't know. I don't know how true the movie is, but I like the movie. But anyway. So yeah, Into the Wild has uh pretty big scenes uh at Celevation Mountain and just Lab City in general.
SPEAKER_01And the stage. It's a good movie. Yeah. Right. Interesting.
SPEAKER_02We could Alexander Supertramp was his was his clean name. Alexander Supertramp, which is a pretty cool name.
SPEAKER_01It's a good book, too. If either of us develop develop pseudo names, we're gonna have to work hard to come up with something as cool as Alexander Supertramp. Um pretty cool. Yeah, we could we if if we if we ever if we ever do this again and and we should maybe we should maybe I should do my homework on Slab City and we could we could just talk about that. Like how long real like kind of to to sort of conclude that and and and and move on. You you were there two different times or roughly like how how long of a period of time each time?
SPEAKER_02I couldn't I honestly I mean no more weeks, no more yeah, no more than six months at a time.
SPEAKER_01Okay, but so you were it was maybe the one time popping in for you know like uh a week or something. Like you you were there to yeah, I set up a camp.
SPEAKER_02Like I had inherited like this trailer from this couple who were really cool and we became friends with.
SPEAKER_01That's cool. So you were there just long enough to like cultivate relationships, be a part of the community, and like oh yeah, with home for a while.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they did free meals like every Friday, and I would help cook the free meals on Fridays in the kitchen, and yeah, so I mean, and they had they had like a movie screen and they would show movies on Friday nights with the dinner, and it was all free. So yeah, I was there for I mean, I was there a bunch of different times, but like probably maybe like four to six months, I'd say something like that. I stayed there was my longest interesting yeah, like a whole winter. I stayed a whole winter one time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's that that that provides a wealth of experience, life experience for sure. I I I I would think. Yeah, but a lot of shit going on. You so you were there among all these other places in and around California and Mexico. How'd real quick, like that's that's interesting? I didn't know that at all. So where like where at in Mexico were you and and uh how did you how did you end up there with regard to other California travels and then and then Ohio? Is that like one of the last things you did before coming back here? Or what what what what was the kind of the path that ended up getting you back back here? Um in whenever that was like 2011, 2012.
SPEAKER_02Right. Um so while I was staying in Southern California in San Diego, and one of my really good friends was in the Navy SEAL program, and a lot of the Navy SEALs would go down to Tijuana to party, and I would go down with them sometimes. Yeah, which Tijuana in Mexico it's like kind of right there or whatever. So and eventually we yeah, I wanted to go to Mexico. I don't know, for some reason, I don't really know. I mean, I like citrus a lot, or I used to use a lot of citrus, and figured hey, they got some citrus farms down there, so you know, lemons and oranges and whatnot. So ended up going down there for a while. Uh and then uh working yeah, through and then yeah, through Texas. I went there because I stayed in Texas for a pretty pretty decent amount of time too. And Medal. I have some I have some I have one really good friend in Texas, and I was staying kind of in his area, which is kind of outside of Dallas, uh Denton, Texas, which Denton, Texas is like a college, it's like a hippie college art liberal kind of town or whatever it used to be. I don't know anymore, but yeah, so just kind of like migrated south from there and then came back up after Mexico back into Texas, and uh and then yeah, actually uh came back to Ohio from Texas, matter of fact. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay. And then when when you so when you first came back, 2011, 2012, whenever that was 10 some years ago, you first started, or not first started, because you were already you had already been on a number of farms, small farms and stuff of the different kinds at that point. Um, and you worked, you know, you were working on a couple different ones locally. Was it by that by that point in time had you already established, like in your mind, that that this is what I want to do? This is kind of the life path that I want to seek?
SPEAKER_02No, I don't think so. I mean, maybe a little bit, but I don't think I was dead set on it or totally convinced.
SPEAKER_01No. At what at what point did you when you when you were when did you first do a market and and when you first did a market were you selling on behalf of somebody that you were like at one of the local farms you were working for? Or okay, you did?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean I would just help them set up, I basically just help them set up everything and then go back to the farm while he did the farmer's market. And just keep working, just keep working, yeah. That's what I would do. That was my gig on Saturdays. Yeah, okay. Um and it was the it was the Medina farmer's market on the square.
SPEAKER_01Okay, and it and and and as I as as we go on and and I ask you more questions about this, I'm I'm not gonna ask you any specific names of people or institutions or anything. We can just talk about you know like the the pros, the cons, and but uh you know there's no sense in naming names or whatever. But um sure so when did you so you you were you were working for you know a couple like a couple different couple different people, couple different places, small farms, and then at some point you were I think when we first met 2014 or something, you had you had some beds in in the back at your folks' place.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's where we I I started growing initially at my folks' place, and that was the and that was kind of your first stint of doing your own thing your way on your terms.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I started doing that while I was working for a different guy. Okay in Lichfield, he also lived in Lichfield, and then I would go after I'd worked for him or whatever, I would go home and do my little bit of stuff on the bed spaces that I had at my parents' place. It wasn't my it was a very small amount of uh bed space, wasn't much.
SPEAKER_01When did when did you start doing your thing full time and stop working for other people?
SPEAKER_02Uh I mean I think it was I think it's like four years ago now. I haven't I haven't worked for anybody else.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_02Maybe something like nothing serious. Um yeah, I I can't recall if it's if it's been four years, five years since I've had like a you know, like a straight job or whatever you want to call it.
SPEAKER_01Oh, right. Because for I remember that that for a while. Um you were working locally with uh with them. We're not gonna name names. Yeah, yeah. And uh with the greenhouse, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was teaching uh I was teaching pe I was teaching individuals with disabilities uh how to grow, I guess, food in in a greenhouse setting locally. That's what I was doing.
SPEAKER_01Just out of curiosity, was that like a year or two or something?
SPEAKER_02Oh, I did that for four years. Really? It was almost it was almost four years, huh? It was like three years in some children.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so that's that that's that as I'm trying to just mentally think about time frames and stuff and fill in like a gap of time. That's that's kind of that gap of time. I got it. All right. That that that that clears things up. Okay, so basically, you know, like a lot of like a lot of people, you know, you you you like you did your thing, and then you just you worked a day job for a few years, and we're trying to build this other thing up on on the side at nights and and stuff like that. And uh and then after working the day job, like the official, you know, day job, you were working for a couple different farms here and there, and then building up your stuff even more before going full time, right? Like I'm I'm Cody, I'm taking my stuff to market. And obviously by that time, um you know, it's it's safe to say five years ago you were like, Yeah, this is who I am, this is what I'm doing, this is this is Cody.
SPEAKER_02You know, like with or I never talk about myself in the third person.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Uh go ahead.
SPEAKER_01Well, like, yeah, this is who I am, this is how I'm gonna make a living. Yeah, like this is what I'm gonna do to earn a buck.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean I guess something like that.
SPEAKER_01Uh when you were okay, here kind of going back a little bit to when you were out west back in the vegan days. Um the dark days. How long were you a vegan, by the way? Uh I think about four years. Wow. Probably four years. All right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think about four.
SPEAKER_01I was a vegetarian for for about a year and a half, but uh but that's that's that's that's strict. You know, you you you are you have some pretty I I you know um how do I you're just you're you're just very you're just diligent about you're just very mindful of what you consume.
SPEAKER_02Try to be period. Try to be, yeah. You know, not just food, right, right. Media, right, whatever, entertainment.
SPEAKER_01And and it if we if we can, you know, we might even we might even dive into that a little bit. But but my my my where I was going with that question of at what point did you start getting into in into more foraging and incorporating that into life in conjunction with farming?
SPEAKER_02Uh they kind of started at the same time, honestly. Oh yeah? Yeah, they yeah, they kind of started at the same time.
SPEAKER_01Um you work with someone who was going out and were like, oh yeah, or it just not really, no.
SPEAKER_02No, I just kind of like started doing it myself because I didn't really know anybody with you know, yeah, I just I guess I so yeah, I started learning about some stuff that was available out there. Okay, beyond uh beyond uh meat, you know, animals. We're talking plants and fungus, you know, so forging mushrooms and foraging just like you know, simple stuff, blackberries, black raspberries, uh yeah, just easily identifiable things.
SPEAKER_01And then over over the course of time, you know, you your your interest in that like grew. As did. I think I mean you you said you were you've always hunted, you you know, you grew up hunting, but you know, would you say that you you you you view hunting differently now through a different lens than maybe you did as a kid?
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, yeah, it's like yeah, it's like one of the most important things in my life, period. It's like closest, it's probably like the closest thing to spirit like spirituality that I have in my life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that's why I think when like I I've I've never been out. Uh I mean we talk about it, I get my paws busted a lot from a lot of people for being here and not hunting, and I get it. I've never done that to you. No, you have never. Because you're not those people, like you know, and I I appreciate that. But and that's but that's a that's a big part of the reason why I you know why why I've I'd like to go out with you for a first time and like sit. And um and maybe why some other people do too is is because that that that approach is respected and maybe just a little bit different than than than what a lot of people see. But anyways, that I again that that could maybe be um I should I should make some notes. That could be another little uh topic in its own right. Um if we were ever ever to do these little Robin Cody, which which would which I don't we can talk about that later. But um so you've been doing this, you know, uh solid farming four or five years taken to market, multiple markets, um and uh hustling, just just just doing what is needed to make it work as a small farmer. What's your favorite thing about being a small farmer, market gardener, homesteader, whatever, whatever, whatever you want to call yourself? It I guess it depends on who you're talking to, how you what you refer to yourself as. But what's your favorite thing about living the life you live?
SPEAKER_02Hmm. Favorite thing. I mean I don't have to talk question. Uh I would say I guess just being able to think about how I'm made up of so much of what I'm putting my effort toward, you know, is like like literally on a cellular level. About, you know, from the deer that I eat that I, you know, took, killed, um, to yeah, whatever, man, the potatoes or the onions or whatever else. The soil too, you know. Like I'm always I'm always like touching it, and you know, it's like I'm I'm microbe microbially connected to my environments in in a lot of ways, you know.
SPEAKER_01You literally are what you harvest.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right. Yep. You are what you eat, or like you are what you eat eats kind of thing. So yeah, even if it's a plant, like eating the microbes and you know, all that, and then the deer, whatever the deer you're eating. So yeah, that's probably my favorite part, is just that's interesting. That's being close, being like lit so close literally that you're made up of it. It's just we're like the same shit.
SPEAKER_01I I I I expected some answer like that, but not framed in that. But it's also not surprising. So with that said, on the flip side, what what are some of the what are some of the challenges? Some of the some of the hardest things you've faced over the past few years, five years, even ten years going back, you know, when you first started dabbling with the farming.
SPEAKER_02Are you are you so you're speaking now specifically about being a market gardener? Market grower?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02The challenges of that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So you I mean, you've got your favorite things, or yeah, some of the some of the challenges, or just maybe even some of the things that you absolutely hate, like tasks that you despise.
SPEAKER_02I don't know. I mean, I don't really hate it, any of it, but um honestly it it it depends on what time of year you ask me this question, I would say. Obviously. Because yeah, the tasks differ, they get very different depending on the season. But I mean, I guess the least favorite, um you know, dude, I don't even know. Like the least favorite. It's really hard to answer. Um I don't hate any of it, as I just said. I mean, I really don't hate any of it. I guess having to make money through it, you know, is not the easiest part. It's not my least, it's it's not my favorite part. It's not my favorite part is making worrying about the financial aspects of the whole thing. Yeah, because I mean I think if we weren't living in a money-based culture, that I would still kind of be doing the market gardening thing, but maybe just bartering or being like a local grower as far as like, oh well, this guy grows vegetables, and like, oh, this guy, you know, is a blacksmith, so like we're trading you know, whatever vegetables and fruit for like this guy makes the tools so I can grow the vegetables and fruit, you know, like that kind of situation. Like, I feel like I would still be doing that. So yeah, one of the more difficult parts I would say is worrying so much about the financial aspect because growing food is already not that easy, but then like trying to make money at it is even harder, I would I would say. Yeah, at least for me, because I'm not financially inclined on that, but naturally at least. I don't it's something I should work on more.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Finances.
SPEAKER_01I I understand. It's interesting that you say that though, because that was a question I was uh originally going to ask you was you know, if if if money wasn't a concern in the world, what like what would you be doing? And I decided to decide yeah, because I just knew that after talking with you and knowing you for so long.
SPEAKER_02I wouldn't work as much though. I wouldn't be working as much.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it would be it would be framed differently, we'd all be living differently, but yeah, it's that that that's just it's it's funny that you took it there, uh of course. Um so so you you've been uh you've been here uh for for a few years, uh work in this land predominantly. I mean you're you're you're doing other things and other places, all kinds of things everywhere. Um somebody from the audience asked, Sean asked how in in a in a simplified manner, his question is how does one select what crops to grow on a given piece of land? Like how did you get to the point where you determined what you were gonna grow or what you are actively growing now up there?
SPEAKER_02Um I'm still working on it. Um it's still like a refinery process, you know. But uh I so that's a difficult question. I mean, I feel like it almost would have to be more specific because it's very specific upon where you're selling what you're growing. And I would, I mean, I would say soil type, but that's not really true because you can always amend it and pretty much grow whatever. Um, so I would say it depends heavily upon your market. Okay. Where you're selling, yeah. And for me, it's you know, I think a lot of market gardeners say this, market growers say this is lettuce is like number one. People are always like eating salads, they're pretty, you know.
SPEAKER_01Are there just some things that you want that you'd really love to grow, but it just sucks up there, just doesn't work.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, uh cucumbers, yeah. Yeah, cucurbits and cucurb that's a tough word, apparently. Uh the the whole cucumber, you know, squash family for me is not that easy to grow up there. There's a lot of insects that like to eat those plants. Um, so yeah, I really would like to grow a lot of cucumbers because I I actually like to eat a lot of cucumbers myself, and people really like to buy cucumbers. Um and melons too, so it's the same family. But melons and cucumbers, I would love to grow more of those things. Not that they're extremely profitable, I don't think. Cucumbers more so than melons, because melons are people really don't want to pay money for melons, they don't want to pay what they're worth.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_02But I but I again with the cucumbers, I like to eat those, and same thing with melons, I really like melons a lot. So I I would eat them. I would like to eat more melons than that.
SPEAKER_01You you would like to eat them, but yeah, you have challenges in doing so because the bugs really maybe not so much like to eat the fruits, but like to eat the plants and the stems and the leaves and everything that makes the fruits grow. So, yeah, that's no good. Which is also an interesting segue into the next question, which is um how do you how do you deal with you know those those challenges when pests are destroying. Crops and how do you stay motivated when you face those stressors? When you know, like like pests or just crop failures or anything for that matter, something not working out the way you planned.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um initially uh a lot of cursing. Getting very upset. Um yeah, I try not to internalize it for too long, though. I try to let it go. Um, so honestly, the my my method, not that this is the best way at all. Uh, this is just I'm not even saying it works for me. I'm just saying this is what I'm leaning into more recently or this past season, I guess, is kind of just putting the blinders on and literally just not looking at certain areas because I know they're mess, whether they're just a mess or they're a failure or whatever you want to call it. Um, so either not really paying a lot of attention to it, andor just I guess tarping it, tarping the area or the bed in particular, and just kind of moving on, just moving on, dude. Just not not getting hung up on it, just moving on. And if I don't have time to just move on that minute or that day or whatever, then like I said, I'll just try not to pay too much attention or get caught up in that particular crop or that particular failure or whatever it is, because there's so much going on up there that it's it's easy, you know. There's there's a lot of options, a lot of other places to look. So literally it will be me walking past an area and not looking at it on purpose.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02A lot of times.
SPEAKER_01So that's okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. And along the same lines, what in those times, like if if there's a lot of that going on, what makes you feel motivated? What what makes you feel inspired and gets you gets you passionate about things?
SPEAKER_02I don't know. I mean like the the motivation and the inspiration, I think is kind of like bullshit. I don't know. I don't really subscribe too much to like motivation or inspiration because I think it's a fleeting, they're both pretty fleeting. Um mine's more just uh I would say I don't know about dedication, but just yeah, just kind of stay in the path and just yeah, moving forward, man. You know, it's not like I said, it's not I mean I'd say more days than not. I I don't feel motivated to keep pushing through and whatever, but again, I think motivation is yeah, it's kind of bullshit.
SPEAKER_01So you're not you're not one to rely on it.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I will listen to music a lot and podcasts and shit, but I mean I've got I'm we're gonna ask you that. Yeah, I mean no, it's no, I don't again I I try not to think too much about it, you know, when when I'm not feeling motivated or whatever, like I I don't I don't pay much attention to it. And then it's the same when I'm like feeling motivated, I guess. I don't pay a lot of attention to that either. Sure. Because I like as I said, it's like I don't think about too much how I'm feeling about these things, how I feel, how I I don't get caught up in the feelings because they can I I yeah, I think they can dilute they can dilute life a lot of times.
SPEAKER_01Get caught up in a loop in a way too of sorts. Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_02It's I don't know. It's yeah, I I think humans are one of the only animals that caught get so much caught up in how they feel.
SPEAKER_01Jeez. So that's the that's the truth. And on a on a on a completely unrelated note, not not not with not emotions or or or or dealing with stress and feeling uh you know challenged and motivated and all that stuff. Um we've we've talked about this a little bit. Uh you know, farming for sure it's physically demanding. Yeah. Um and there's so a lot of people would say, well, you're just you know, you're like you're fit. Like what you know, why why would you why would you work out? And you you know, you've mentioned that there's a lot of repetitive motion that you're doing and so and that you you know you do some other things to stay fit in addition to the work that you're already doing. So what else do you do to stay physically fit? And and and and why those things as opposed to other uh you know stuff, right things.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, I mean, I guess I'll I'll I'll start my answer by saying that I think uh like farming, human agriculture, it's it's I don't I'm not saying it's unnatural for people, but I'm saying I don't think it's that natural for the human body, the repetitive nature of it, and I think it's very damaging to the human body, even though I spend a lot of time doing it. So yeah, I guess I try to do things that are kind of the reversal of that, and not so mechanized, and not so much stooping and bending and squatting, and yeah, just a lot of looking down. It's a lot of looking down. So yeah, I don't know. I do I do quite a few things. I mean, I do I do a lot of like hanging from bars and trees and stuff like that, and pull-ups and things like that. Um I like to like look lift up and throw around really, you know, like big heavy rocks. Um uh there's that, and I would say um like free more freeform stuff like swimming, you know, when uh yeah, I feel like stuff that's just kind of loosens up the joints and whatnot, you know. Um I stretch every single day too, um, without exception. Definitely everyday stretch. Stretcher usually in the mornings, spend like 30 minutes to 40 minutes every day stretching uh or foam rolling or incorporating stretching and foam rolling actually together. Um and then I would say making sure I get good sleep is part of the part of like the staying fit because I think that's pretty underrated as far as uh staying fit and healthy is trying to get really good sleep and sleeping on like hard surfaces too. I don't sleep on a bed. Um so sleeping on like a wood floor, I think uh is good for like aligning the body. And even though I'm sitting on a couch right now, I generally don't really sit on couches and I don't like chairs and couches, and so I don't really spend a lot of time sitting on things. I like to sit on the ground, yeah, or like lay on the ground or whatever. I don't yeah, I just think human posture is pretty shitty. It and yeah, I spend a lot of time trying to, I guess, not make my posture so shitty.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I agreed. I uh you I mean you've you've kind of inspired me to up my stretching game a lot uh uh uh as well. And um, I lost my train of thought. Um, something we were talking about though you were talking about the throwing rock and and and and movement and the unnatural aspects of agriculture and your non mechanized activity, and I guess that thought is gone.
SPEAKER_02It's okay. I'll just I'll just say that I think I think there's something will come back to me. I think I think humans, you know, myself included, you know, we need to do more hard shit. Like challenging physically more challenging physically because I th I do think that sitting in chairs, looking at screens and stuff, it's it's it is physically challenging and taxing on the human body, but not in the beneficial way so much as like going outside with your bare feet on the ground and lifting up heavy ass shit and throwing it around, or you know, dragging something that's really heavy around, or you know, putting a backpack on and with a bunch of weight in it and a bow and arrow and walk three miles, you know, on a hunting ground. That's you know, these things are just I think essential and uh often neglected and not pursued. And uh yeah, I think people are uh no, I shouldn't say that. I I think uh I do I yeah, I think people need to do harder things on a daily basis.
SPEAKER_01I think is the other important part, and maybe be a little maybe be a little bit more creative than simply doing something than going to 24-hour fitness and getting on a machine and not that that's a bad thing, it's a great start, but do it too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, too. I mean, I have like free weights that I use and I do push-ups and stuff. I mean, like, yeah, I think I think uh just whatever whatever it is that we do, do yeah, but maybe change the viewpoint or perspective on it as far as oh you know you have to block out this hour and you have to do like this many reps or whatever. It's I mean you could do 10 minutes of something, you know, three times a day or whatever. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't have to be like in one block. You know what I mean? It's I I just think that physical fitness or I don't really know what to call it, but physical wellness maybe. Um it doesn't have to be so black and white, it can really just it can be you can get really creative with it, and not even just the movements itself, but you know, the time frames of the movements or you know, whatever. Yeah, there's it's almost like infinite possibilities, and I think uh it gets kind of stagnant.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you go and you bench press and you squat and you deadlift and exactly I mean one prime example of kind of like what what what you're talking about is the we're we were we were just talking about movement and stuff in the barn, and I was moving some things around, and I was telling you I was doing lunges with a pallet over my head, right? Right. Just uh not that I needed to, but because I could. And it, you know, so there's the yeah, there's some value in just doing doing things and thinking creatively with with movement.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you don't even have to have weights, like you said. It can be a pallet, it can be whatever, you know, whatever it is, like whatever you do in your daily life, you whether you're a dishwasher or a farmer or whatever, well, you know, whatever you are, man, like there's definitely opportunities, you know, all the time, probably, where you can use your environment to your advantage and and get something out of it good that's that's physical and challenging for you and you know beneficial, like I said, in a physical way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and this this the the the the physical you know the physical nature of farming, the physical nature of some of the just the the the activity that you engage in. In addition to that, that's that's that's that's led to a bit of a a nickname for you by Dave. You're the Jack Tippy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Do you have any other nicknames other than other people?
SPEAKER_02Come on, I think that's such a bad nickname for you.
SPEAKER_00No, uh, no other nicknames other than other other than other than the one Dave has graced you with.
SPEAKER_02I wish I wish I was Jack's, but I'm not. I'm actually not Jack. I'm trying to get there. Probably never gonna happen, but I'm working on it. Yeah, I am I'm also not a hippie, so it's funny. I'm definitely not a hippie.
SPEAKER_01I have I guess I have hippie aspects to me, but I yeah, there's it's it's funny because yeah, you're I'm not a hippie.
SPEAKER_00Oh, they're a hippie.
SPEAKER_01You know, and it's it's it's funny, but uh um one other like yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, see, I don't I don't know. I guess Dave says that every once in a while, but it's not it's definitely not something he uses. Uh by the way, Dave is a good friend of mine who also works on the farm, and uh so yeah, he but he doesn't he doesn't really use that name that often. I guess you must have heard it one time. We usually say really derogatory things.
SPEAKER_01That's all I heard. I think I heard it once and I couldn't I couldn't let it go.
SPEAKER_02That's not even it's just that's not even really the name. We usually say really horrible derogatory things to each other.
SPEAKER_01I wish it was more of a thing, like I because I I just think it's awesome because like because of the fact that like you're not you're just like I'm not a hippie, and that's it's a name that's stuck. It's just like yeah, it's yeah, it's that's the best, anyways. Um one you know, in in in in I was poking around, like I had a lot of things that I wanted to ask you. I I put feelers out there, you know, to the podcast group, to family, like what do they want to ask you? Um, and one of the things that uh people wanted and this there this was a question that sort of generated some some I don't want to say controversy, but generated some dialogue because someone was interested in how you maintain a work-life balance. And then someone else countered with work-life balance, that's that's something that people in corporate America struggle with, and I think a lot of people associate with white-collar jobs. I don't see it that way at all, and that's not I I I think in some conversations that we've had we can agree that we both don't see it that way. So, how do you manage that? Like this whole work life balance. Um I mean how do you try your the lack of management of it to to not negatively affect you?
SPEAKER_02I mean yeah, I don't really know how to answer it, but I mean I I guess I'll say during the hot during the seas, I mean I don't know, man. I mean obviously stumbling around because I don't have a good answer here. I was thinking about the other day, I guess, about I'm pretty sure I worked seven and a half months basically up until this week. This week was the first week I didn't have a farmer's market. I don't know how long it's been, it's been a long time, but I'd say probably seven and a half solid months where I I think I had maybe like one or two days where I took maybe like a portion of the day where I didn't really work. But every other day, I mean it's definitely like a solid 8, 10, 12, 14, 16 hours, depending on the day or the week. Probably seven and a half months of that this season. So there wasn't there was not a work-life balance, I would say that. But now I am starting to do more life things. Not that I won't want to keep work and life separate. I mean, I don't know. I think I think asking my girlfriend would probably be better per, you know, she'd be a good person to ask because she worries. You know, she she worries about it because she sees, you know, she sees me during the height of the season, and you know, I'm sure other people do too. It's it's messy, you know, it g it gets messy. It's not a healthy thing, I don't think, overall, you know, mentally or physically to work 10, 12, 14, 16 hour days for seven and a half-ish months, and really only having maybe one solid day off in that whole span of time where I literally didn't do anything on the farm for all day. Um, but I mean one I I do I will say that once like once I'm done working on the farm for the day or whatever, and I go hang out with my family, have dinner or whatever we do, that I pretty much, you know, I pretty much drop the farm stuff. I don't really talk about it. I don't really want to talk about it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I kind of let my family know that I don't want to talk about it anymore, because I don't really want to think about it when I'm not there. And I don't want to think about it when I'm not there. Um, so I kind of I kind of keep try to keep it separate, honestly, from my like my family life and my farm life. I try I should I I try to keep somewhat separate.
SPEAKER_01Um so yeah, just compartmentalizing some of that a little bit. And you know, you mentioned that now that things are easing up a little bit, isn't it kind of nice to not have a market? Yeah, it's pretty nice. I'm now finally experiencing a taste of what you've been living for years and understanding that this is likely gonna be uh comparable. And uh you know, that's just that's this is this is uh that the that's something that I'm gonna ask you a little bit of uh about in a minute here. But um you mentioned that you know it's nice that you've got a little bit more time so that you can do your so that you can do your personal stuff.
SPEAKER_02Take a nap.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, take a nap. Well, family.
SPEAKER_02I take a nap with my youngest daughter, it's like one of my favorite things.
SPEAKER_01What what else what are other favorite things that you have outside of like taking a nap with your daughter, which kind of sounds like one of the one of the best things in the world? Yeah, it's pretty much. How old is she, by the way, for those uh that don't know?
SPEAKER_02She's like 14 months old. Yeah, and then your other daughter is She's like seven and a half years old. Right. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um what other what other hobbies do you have besides being a being a family man and being a dad and and uh taking naps with a 14 month old?
SPEAKER_02That's pretty no, I'm just um I mean hunting's number one 100%. That's it's that's 100% number one. It's it's pretty much my favorite thing to do in life in general. Yeah. Bow hunting in particular, I will say bow hunting. It's not just hunting, but bow hunting. That's okay, so it's bow hunting white-tailed deer is is probably probably my favorite thing. And then that whole process of you know, yeah, everything from going out into the woods, you know. I mean, it's really before that shooting, practice, practicing shooting the bow, like every everything to do with hunting, man, just getting more in tune with my own senses and you know, having a way more quiet time where I'm actually not managing things and managing tasks and you know, schedules and things like that.
SPEAKER_01Um it's the actual act of hunting day of, but everything that goes in.
SPEAKER_02All the preparation, yeah, you know, scouting, looking at public lands, just visit. I I just like you know, being outside on public ground in Ohio and just taking it all in, man. It's like it's yeah, like I said, it's closest thing to spirituality I have, and it's probably my most healing healing practice that I that I would do. Um, but yeah, so the hunting probably number one. Um definitely that. Uh music somewhat. I mean, I don't really play a lot of music anymore. Uh, but yeah, I used to be really into music, playing music, creating music, writing music, recording music, um, playing a lot of different instruments. Like I said, it's not not really so much anymore. Um, but yeah, cooking too. I really like cooking a lot. Um I like being around you when you cook. Yeah, cooking's cooking is fun. Cooking's fun. Get been getting into making sourdough bread again recently, which is I really love making sourdough bread a lot.
SPEAKER_01Um are you interested in gluten-free sourdough? No. Okay. I just I I know someone who's who's seemingly mastered this. And if you had any interest in that, I could connect you. But if you don't, then whatever.
SPEAKER_02No, I I I feel bad for gluten, honestly. Because it's it's so heavily hated now. Yeah, right. Everyone hates it. So it's like, dude, can you imagine being gluten in this day and age is being gluten?
SPEAKER_01That should be, you know, I'm gonna write that down as like another thing that we could talk about. It's just the whole like people hate it discussion, because that's that's that's an interesting discussion to have.
SPEAKER_02I'm not saying it's a health food, but I'm saying like, dude, is it really the worst thing in the world? Right. I don't know, man. Everyone, it's like a campaign against gluten.
SPEAKER_01Right now, which is like dude. I I and I I get it, but I think there's I think there's a lot more there than just simply like gluten being the scapegoat of all the things. There's a lot of things. Because it sure seems to be that way with a lot of things.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, people just want to take like a far distance look at it and judge it. Right. You know, or like say think they have it figured out rather than get into like the nitty-gritty details of maybe it's not gluten, maybe it's glyphosate, maybe it's you know not being a sourdough, you know, whatever, you know. There's so much not sprouted, it you know, whatever it is. But yeah, um, yeah, and then I and physical fitness is also like I'm I'm really I'm really passionate about that. Really pass it's like a daily practice, you know. So again with the stretching and the weights and push ups and whatever whatever it ends up being, you know, just any any any stuff like that I I really enjoy a lot. Um and music, music too, but not just um I'm I'm speaking now about listening to the music because yeah, I like I like listening to music a lot, music and podcasts a lot, both both of those things. I I spent a lot Lot of time by myself with the farming, so I will listen to music and podcasts while doing that.
SPEAKER_01I think a lot of people listening to this will identify with that because they're in a similar position, maybe not farming, but much like I was and am, where podcasts were not so much music more so now. Um like way more so now than podcasts. But it's an integral part of life, and you know, it is for you, it is for a lot of people, and I think that that's gonna, you know, resonate with a lot of people. I was I really wanted to ask because I wasn't sure if there was some lingering thing out there in the in the mysterious world of Cody that I didn't know about. Like, you know, maybe you were into um you know crocheting or something. No, no, I'm not I've never done that. I mean, I I I I I I wasn't really I didn't know what to expect, but hey, you know, who knows who knows what how what what comes up in things. Like, for example, I didn't know you'd been to Mexico. So but um you know to kind of wrap up the whole market farming industry part of the of the discussion. If if um if someone who was dead set on we can we know we we both know of someone you know in particular who seems dead set on being a market farmer. Yep, we know what I'm talking about. Yeah, like what advice, and you've probably given it to them already. But anybody else out there is dead set on being a market farmer, what advice do you have for them?
SPEAKER_02Um, yeah, I have uh actually, yeah, I told this dude because he yeah, he's dead set on being a market gardener, um, which is cool. But yeah, uh I I I gave him two rules. Um, rule number one, uh it's very simple. Rule number one is uh don't be a bitch. That's rule number one. Rule number two is don't listen on any what anyone else says. So that's it. That's literally it.
SPEAKER_01I think that's pretty simple. Don't be a bitch and don't listen to what anyone else says.
SPEAKER_02Correct. Yeah, you don't have to because I I I I have found at least through market gardening, uh, is that a lot of people want to tell you, oh, this is the way to do it, or oh, that's not gonna work. You're wasting your time with that, whatever. You know, I hear a lot of that, a lot of naysaying and a lot of a lot of pessimism, dude. Honestly, and you know what you should do. You know what you should do. Well, this is how I do it, or whatever. And maybe it does work for them, and maybe it would work for me, or whatever. But honestly, I feel like I've learned the most through doing things that people said either weren't possible or wouldn't likely work, or I mean what you know, whatever, whatever it is, man, you know.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, so so so ultimately you learned most by doing. Yeah, I would say interesting, interesting. Action, action-based, yeah, yeah, pre-action-based. Just something I observation I'm making here, you know, that you learn by doing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I didn't do that much reading, honestly. Like, I mean, I've I've yeah, I've read like the JM book, I've read some Elliott Coleman stuff for sure. I mean, I've read some people and watch videos or whatever, but honestly, mostly just through experimentation and failure and success and yeah, desperation and all things in between, you know. I don't know how much I've figured out, but come to learn some things, I guess. So, what's a common myth?
SPEAKER_01Like, what do you what's a common uh after all that well um it's not like we're done learning, like we've mastered this life thing, you know. We got a lot more to learn, and we'll probably look back uh in 10 years and have a good laugh at this period of time. Oh yeah. But um, it probably won't be that long either, dude. 10 or so days. But what do you think is a common myth in life? Small farming about about being a market gardener, that it's market farmer.
SPEAKER_02That it's some beautiful, picturesque endeavor, something like it's like beautiful, and you're just like you must feel so peaceful. I've had uh yeah, I had I had a interaction with an inner city dude in Cleveland at the market, and that's what he was saying. He was, man, you just must feel so peaceful doing what you do every day. No, man. I don't not at all, actually. No, I don't I don't feel a lot of peace from market gardening, actually. Yeah, it's not at least in you know for me at least it's not. I'm sure there's probably some people out there who find it very peaceful, but I'm not I'm not one of them, I don't think. Maybe I'll get to that someday with it, but I I don't see that happening. Right, and I I don't think it's super peaceful. I think it's pretty stressful.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I I I think I think we can understand why based on some of the things that we talked about so far, the hours and the time and the commitment and the failures work and the failures and the stresses, and yeah, it's all time, it's all very based on time too, and it's a lot of it's out of your control.
SPEAKER_02So, you know, that's that's the other aspect is it's very far out of your just the weather alone is yes completely out of your control. So as far as what the weather does, it doesn't matter what you think about it. Like the wind, for example. Like the wind. It doesn't matter, weather doesn't care how you feel. Yeah, so that ties back in again. I was saying earlier about I try not to pay that much attention to how I feel because like the elements and most of the things around you don't give a shit either. So yeah, they don't really care about you. Nature doesn't care. Nature doesn't care about your feelings, man.
SPEAKER_01So no what um what market farming related or not? What challenge in life do you think has shaped you the most to date?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I wouldn't say more. I mean I wouldn't say market gardening, probably not, yeah. I I would say probably being in a relationship um with my with my girlfriend, my current uh girlfriend. Yeah, I would say probably that yeah, I would say that's that's been challenging in a lot of different ways, unexpected ways, and uh probably will continue to do or continue to be challenging. I'm I'm I'm almost certain.
SPEAKER_01I think that's the most challenging part of life. I'm also learning that right now, changing, you know, transitioning the way that I live and conduct business with people and friends and family. And yeah, if you've got an intimate relationship with someone, I'm a single dude. I've been single for a while. I'm not really ladies or dudes, I mean whatever. No, hey now. I still like uh yeah, no, we'll stick with the former. All right. Uh but yeah, man, it's it's it's uh that's a that's a that's a huge um part of life. I mean, uh uh you know you guys have a couple kids. Right. And a home. Yeah. Yeah. And and and and a and and we live together with that, which and a house, yeah. You know, we bought a house. Combines a bunch of stress, which one of the questions I had is what's a what what's a what's it like trying to be trying trying to be a market farmer with two small kids age like we previously said, seven and a half and fourteen months.
SPEAKER_02Well, luckily my partner, she does uh she does most of the work regarding kids. You know, I I pretty much just I'm I'm like the uh yeah, I'm like a relief pitcher or something. You know, she's like she does all the all the uh grinding hard stuff with the kids, I think. And I just come in uh you know help out a little bit here and there when I can kind of thing. But uh squeezing naps with yeah, squeeze in naps. Right, squeeze in naps. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So uh yeah, I mean I I would say that she she does most of that work. Um I I I try to I I bring back the resources, the food, uh yeah, the food mostly the meat and the the produce. So I bring that and she takes care of the kids. It's a that's it's it's a trade-off.
SPEAKER_01It's yeah, right. Not not unlike many traditional natural humans. Yeah. Right. That's that's a that's a it's really a common way that people have interacted historically and maybe ought to moving forward. I don't know. I mean, I mean, I don't know, but it but that's neither here nor there. We're not we're not really here to talk about that today, but uh what do you think? Like, but but just kind of on the on the on the on the note of whole parenting and being a being a dad, what do you think one of the most challenging aspects parents not maybe not just parents, but specifically fathers face today? No, dude, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02That's that's a pretty big question, right? Um fathers in general, man. I don't know. I I certainly can't speak for fathers in general. That's that'd be tough because I know a lot of people are very different.
SPEAKER_01I don't know, like right.
SPEAKER_02I I I guess I would say that I I worry about yeah, I I worry about influence with my kids, you know. Like not necessarily my influence. I mean I do think about the influence I have on my kids, but I I I'm speaking more of out of societal cultural, yeah, yeah. Technological influences and yeah, man, just really horrible shit out there, you know. Man, yeah, just very concerning things happening in the world that I don't really want my kids to be part of, but I think almost as you know, inescapable in a way, you know. Not that not that Halloween candy is like the worst thing in the world, but I certainly think it's like complete, total bullshit and like empty, shallow tradition that means absolutely nothing. So it's just like challenges like that. You know, my kid, seven and a half, she wants to, she wants to go Halloween candy thing, you know, which I did growing up. I I didn't die, you know. Like it's not gonna kill her, but at the same time, we just there's no reason to put like food coloring and corn syrup in your body, like like why? Just why? What is what is happening with so it's like stuff like that that I let you know, and like excess, just like excess things, just you know, Christmas and birthdays, just like we have too much shit, we don't need this much stuff in life, too many possessions, and so I worry about my kids being like kind of spoiled, you know, and yeah, just having life too easy, I guess. I I I worry about that. I don't want them to have a real easy life. I don't I don't want them to have too much privilege and too much shit handed to them. I that's I'd say yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I yeah, I don't have children of my own, but once I had family members that had kids, and then once you know you started spending more time here a few years ago, and I started spending more time around you and Luna, things my perspective on kids started changing, and I share a lot of those same concerns, and I think all we can really do, and all we're really doing about it is trying to adjust the way in which we live our lives so that yeah, the children that are around us and the influence that we have is the best that that we we can. So there's some some kind of frame of reference for something that the world's exposing them to, because yeah, that that is largely out of our control. Um that's a weird that's a weird I'm I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna jot that down as another you know future discussion thing. But in and and just in terms of time, like we were talking about before we got started and how the battery's gonna last and the uncertainty of everything, we've actually kind of made it through a lot of these questions and I'm stoked on that. Uh which leads us to these closing questions um that are really unrelated uh uh to anything, but also related to everything. What's one piece of advice that you can share with uh anybody listening to this out there?
SPEAKER_02One piece of advice. Um That's really broad question. That's a very broad question. There's so many things I just yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um Well, you know what advice you have for people that are dead set on market gardening, don't be a bitch and don't listen to what other people say what other people say.
SPEAKER_02I mean, yeah, those are pretty pretty good overall, I'd say. Yeah, I mean it could be. It could be applicable to life in general for sure. Um yeah, I'd maybe just yeah, don't don't don't be don't be so afraid of of stress and uh difficulty. Yeah. There's yeah, don't be uh I mean everybody gets stressed out and anxious and you know feels bad or whatever. This happens to everyone, myself included. Um and when I'm in the middle of feeling stressed or anxious or whatever, you know, complicated emotions are going on or whatever, just uh thinking to myself like this is fine. Yeah, that's okay. That's okay. You know? Yeah, I guess going back to the the feelings, like trying not to pay too much attention to my feelings, you know, not get too caught up in them, is yeah, that just that uh yeah, don't get too caught up in your feelings.
SPEAKER_01Which is interesting. I um I I I think it's uh I think it's sound advice, it's interesting, I say, because it seems somewhat counterintuitive to a lot of the narrative now, which is going deep into your feelings and really becoming in touch with who you are to examine and get to the root of it. And I think there's some value in that, but I also think we all take that to an extreme and and and and inevitably just seek to find someone or something to blame for our problems instead of actually taking action to you know move beyond it. So anyways. Hmm. What are uh totally unrelated? What are what are what are three favorite books of yours that come to mind just right off the top of your head? Something maybe you're reading now, something that you've read in the past, just three books.
SPEAKER_02Uh, number one all-time book, um, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. That's actually number one for me. I've probably read that book ten times. No joke. Um, I would still read that book today. I haven't read it in years. Um, but man, is that a good book?
SPEAKER_01Audience member right now is doing a book study and reading that right now. Oh Brian Norton. Nice. Okay. Nice, nice. That is interesting. Interesting.
SPEAKER_02That is that's a it's a doozy.
SPEAKER_01It's actually Brian Norton who is helping stream this platform through foodforestfarms.com. I'll just give him a little plug shout out there. We'll have fun there with the book, Brian. Yeah. That'll be what's next? What else you got besides number one? Um which seems to be in the ether out there floating around quite a bit.
SPEAKER_02It's true. It's true. Um, I probably I mean, I f I feel like it's kind of cliche or whatever, but I'd I'd say Siddhartha. Yeah. That's probably I read that book a lot of times. Yes. It was required in ninth grade English class from my English teacher who was really cool. So yeah, I read that in school. One of the few books I read in school that was required to actually read um in school. Um yeah, so those there's two right there. Um and I'm looking through your bookshelf right now. I don't know. Maybe you will have something. Um actually you do have actually it's pretty funny. You do have one, the one that one that I would say is uh is nurturing traditions. Yeah, actually. That's a great one. It's it kind of slight it's cookbook slash like information about food book. Um but yeah, nourishing traditions is pretty stellar. Uh yeah, good book.
SPEAKER_01I have not read Xen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. So I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to examine this because a lot of people are. And uh it's gotten it's gotten a solid a solid nod of approval from you since it was numero uno on the book list. I feel like people will the other two are solid for sure. Um I'll have to check it out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it can be, I don't know, man. I I feel like you gotta kind of be interested in the unequatable to be into that book, I would think. Like things that are just beyond almost almost beyond the mind, I guess I would say, is is kind of because I I've recommended the book to people. Actually, my girlfriend in particular is one of them, and she did not dig it at all, could not get into it. She said she would read the page like three times, she'd have to like keep going back and reading paragraph again and again again, and just like was not following it. That's interesting, because it is it's like pretty existential and just like kind of spacey the book itself, but it like it is about motorcycle maintenance. But I feel like the motorcycle maintenance is kind of a metaphor, you know. Yeah, but he is into like repairing motorcycles, which is pretty cool, but it's obviously not just about motorcycles, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but it's that's interesting. It's interesting that she she she she had to process it like that and couldn't quite get down with it. I don't think she finished it either.
SPEAKER_02I'm pretty sure she did not finish it. Almost positive she did not. We'll see. That's okay, it's not for everybody.
SPEAKER_01No, no, but there's only one way to find out if it's for you, and that's to read it. And I'm gonna try and uh do the same and add it to my list. So we got it, oops, we got our three books. What about what about podcasts? What are your three go-to on your podcast player right now?
SPEAKER_02I mean, number one's obviously uh obviously number one's Joe Rogan. That's all right. JRE. The JRE, which doesn't need any explanation or detail. It's the JRE, right? Um, yeah. Um yeah, so I'll go JRE. Um, number two is probably Sasquatch Chronicles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I don't know. I still feel some of like embarrassment about or something because people I feel like people are going with you.
SPEAKER_01I've come to embrace it more.
SPEAKER_02People get a lot of flack about talking about Bigfoot men, but yes, we do. I don't really care, honestly. So Sasquatch Chronicles is an amazing podcast.
SPEAKER_01It's supremely interesting, and I don't I'm gonna I'm gonna jot that down on another thing because that's on enough on another future topic. Because like it's not it's not very often where you can find someone where you can connect with on that like legitimately and talk about it legitimately. And I can appreciate that. All right, so we got Jerry, Sasquatch Chronicles. Laugh away, everybody out there. That's fine. I don't really care. Join us around a bonfire sometime, we'll go into a deeper discussion about it.
SPEAKER_02Or you know, or go ahead and check out Sasquatch Chronicles.
SPEAKER_01Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_02It's a great podcast.
SPEAKER_01Um, and there, you know, but admittedly, if you're searching for content out there on this, there's also a lot of questionable content. So there's that. We'll just we'll both agree to that. I don't even think I have to see what you say about that, Cody.
SPEAKER_02Um and then uh number three moving up, which is totally different from all the other two, not even close. But it's um it's uh these guys are uh local Ohio uh two dudes, um dads against predators. Um their podcast is called uh excuse me, everybody. Um, and these dudes, these two dudes from Ohio, Fremont, Ohio. Um they catch uh and expose uh child predators online. Um they did it on YouTube, but they're they've currently been deleted, banned on YouTube. Their channel's been deleted now for the second time. Um because you know they they're considered harassment because they they pose as 13, 14-year-old boys and girls in chat.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but they're they they they're literally doing the same thing that that I forget his name that Chris Hansen. Yeah, Chris Hansen just did literally the same thing.
SPEAKER_02Nah, I mean it is, but it's not, man. These dudes are like these dudes. They're a little bit more aggressive. Yeah, man. Like they they've they've fought people and like they smoke a lot of weed and like on camera and like you're very open about it. And uh, you know, they're like kind of yeah, they're a little bit ghetto, man.
SPEAKER_01They're a little bit ghetto, and yeah, but considering all the content that's on YouTube and the and and and and what you see out there, the fact that something like that gets pulled is yeah for harassment, you know.
SPEAKER_02And they curse a lot and so they've got you know foul language a lot or whatever, but yeah, I don't know, man. So their podcast is called Excuse Me Everybody and uh I'm gonna link to that and show notes you should so I'm gonna.
SPEAKER_01That's still up.
SPEAKER_02Their podcast is still up. Yeah, luckily, I'm pretty sure. Because yeah. Anyway, so yeah, it just sucks, man, because like yeah, they're there's they're two really good guys, and uh I don't know personally, but two really good guys and they were making a living doing it.
SPEAKER_01Um but their their future is uncertain, and so they're kind of looking for Yeah, because they were monetized and they pulled it and then it's gone.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so now they're looking for like potentially another platform to do it um on. Um I don't know, they're kind of like in a transitionary period right now, which yeah. So I feel like the more people that go look these guys up and follow their shit and support them. Yeah, man, buy a hat, you know, buy a t-shirt, um, you know, put your money towards something good in the world, like these dudes who are exposing and catching child predators because you know, now there's uh there's minor attractive persons, Rob, you know, which is uh apparently an identity in our culture these days is minor attractive persons, people who have an you know uncontrollable attraction to minors, which is disgusting, and you're a piece of shit if you're into that kind of shit. So you shouldn't do that, man. It's disgusting.
SPEAKER_01That's gross that can be lumped into something else that we talked that that that that that I'd like to Yeah, the kid thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that worries me as a father. Having kids, man. Yeah, that that worries me a lot. Is yeah, internet and like what it can do for you know getting kids you know exposed to just horrible shit like that, man. People sick, demented people.
SPEAKER_01I I yeah another topic for another time, but but but it is uh excuse me everybody podcast.
SPEAKER_02And that's it's called Excuse Me Everybody because the guy literally does in Walmart and these public places, he yells at the top of his lungs, excuse me, everybody, this dude's here to meet or Oh, that's his tagline.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, okay, I guess.
SPEAKER_02He screams, excuse me, everybody, in public places, and it's hilarious. Excuse me, everybody podcast. Yeah, and and and publicly shaming people is like that's that's like the lowest tier of punishment these people should get is public shaming. Like that's they're gonna lowest way too easy here.
SPEAKER_01So um I don't I don't I don't know. I don't I I think people I think a lot of people think people that talk about this are you know make a bigger deal out of it than it is or whatever, but I don't really think people understand what an issue it is and and and what it is a bigger part of and that's that I think that that that would be a healthy conversation at another point in time. But we're already damn near an hour and a half in, and I'm quite frankly surprised that the phone still has battery, which is kind of cool because there's only a couple other questions I have for you, Cody. And one of them is is there any question that you wish I would have asked you, but I didn't?
SPEAKER_02No. I couldn't take anything.
SPEAKER_01I mean I came in with zero expectations, so did you take did you so with no expectations coming in, were there any takeaways from it that you're gonna leave with because we're about to go on the rest of our day. What do you got going on the rest of the day, anyways?
SPEAKER_02I mean, I can't say that because like I'm still here.
SPEAKER_01We're gonna go check out a tunnel, I know that for sure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I'm gonna check out some Yeah, we're gonna make sure that the wind is not gonna take down this caterpillar tunnel that we're gonna do. Uh yeah, probably tonight he'll be here tonight. Yeah. Um so yeah, I'm gonna go check on this caterpillar tunnel and uh make sure it's not uh falling over um or blowing over. And uh then I'm eating lunch with my family and uh Very nice, very nice. Hopefully she's cooking something really good. And um, yeah. Hopefully it's got a lot of meat in it. Um uh and then I'm gonna put my kid down for a nap and take one with her and probably hang out with my family a little bit when we get up and then probably go bow hunting for deer somewhere locally, and then probably work uh tonight with headlamps with my friend and co-worker Dave.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Dylan. And so we're probably not supposed to say names. Speaking of uh speaking with Dave. He's not on the internet, so Dave doesn't have internet stuff.
SPEAKER_01No, but Dave is on the internets. You posted a picture of you and Dave and John the other day, and that's a perfect segue into the next question is where can people find you on social media? You posted that picture on I don't I don't know where Instagram or somewhere above, maybe.
SPEAKER_02Both. I just link them together because I'm technologically fancy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you're like a wizard like that. Yeah, so pretty good. On what's your what do they call it? A handle.
SPEAKER_02Uh Facebook's Cody Matthew Gray. And then I don't even know what the Instagram is.
SPEAKER_01I do, because I link to it in the newsletter. Oh, okay. It's Cody Oh shit. It's either it's either it's either Cody Matthew Gray or Cody M Gray.
SPEAKER_02Maybe it's that. No, it is. It's it's it, yeah, it's I think it's Cody M Gray on Instagram. It's all lowercase cody m g r.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, because I I tagged the pictures that you sent me in the in the in the newsletter with that so they can go there and check your stuff out. So yeah, if you guys are listening, go follow Cody on Instagram and Facebook, and then you can learn more about what he's doing. Far more than uh the little snippet that is covered in the newsletter each month that we send out. Um yeah, Cody Matthew Gray, Cody M. Gray on social media, and with that, I guess that's about it. I would also encourage everyone out there to subscribe to the newsletter at York Meadow Farm, where both of us are at this moment, at YorkMotoFarm.com. And that way you get monthly updates from everything that's going on here, including everything that's going on with Cody, links to the current markets where he's at, which at this point in time, there's not going to be much to link to because the Tremont market is over. The Medina market is over, and we're both in this transition period where we are just simply continuing the grind in preparation for the next winter market. Except maybe it's just a little less of a grind.
SPEAKER_02You can uh um I've also found myself at YellowhouseGeeese.com.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, absolutely. Um Yellowhouse Cheese is definitely worth worth mentioning. We list them in the newsletter, and everybody and anybody who's listening to this and local to Northeast Ohio should check out Yellowhouse Cheese because they do an awesome job of supporting how many vendors would you say? Like six, something like that. Six different vendors selling everything from cheese and maple syrup to mushrooms, produce, a lot of things that you forage, you'll send out there to pawpaw, mushrooms, whatever. Do you still do you do forage mushrooms through there or no? Yeah, but that's the season's over. Okay. Um, but yeah, it's it's awesome. And even if you're not local, it's still cool to check out and um let your I let your brain simmer on some of the ideas on how the local line store that's run through Yellow House Cheese is set up. So, anyway, guys, that's it for the show today. And I hope you enjoyed that interview with Cody. Like I said, that took place this past Saturday morning, November 5th, 2022, because I sure enjoyed having that discussion with him. I've known Cody, I've known of Cody for about 10 years for the extent of time that my parents have known him. I've known him personally since I moved back and first met him at the harvest dinner that he hosted back in 2014. And since leaving my day job in May and being here full-time in June, I've gotten to know Cody much better. And it's an honor and a pleasure knowing him. He's inspired me to continue changing my life in new and different ways. We have a lot in common and um I'm really grateful to have this opportunity to share the conversation that we had just a few days ago with you. I hope that you enjoyed it as well. And like I said, there are links to everything that we talked about in the show notes, including where you can connect with Cody on social media, and I would definitely encourage you to do exactly that. So be sure to check out the show notes for everything. And what do we have queued up for tomorrow? Tomorrow we have an episode on why you should not buy Bitcoin. Everybody's talking about buying Bitcoin. I've got a couple reasons why you shouldn't. So, guys, check out the show notes for everything on the discussion with Cody today and tomorrow. We'll talk about some reasons why you shouldn't buy Bitcoin.
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