Episode 36- Policies and Perspective from Stay-at-Home Quarantine

Rich talks about life in quarantine, post Covid economic ramp up strategies, and tries to look at the bright side of everyone staying home for awhile.

Transcript

Rich Helppie: 0:04

[inaudible]. Welcome to the podcast, the common bridge with Richard Helppie. Rich is a successful entrepreneur in the technology, health and finance space. He and his wife, Leslie, are also philanthropists with interests in civic and artistic endeavors, but with a primary focus on medically and educationally underserved children. My name is Brian Kruger, and from time to time I'll be the moderator and host of this podcast. Anne, welcome to the common bridge. It is April the 11th, and I think we're what rich, I think three or three or four weeks into the coven. Uh, the biblical coping, um, panic not to make upon on Easter weekend, but anyway, um, what do you see out there and what should we be looking at and for and, and, and how are you, by the way? We're in different places. Well, Brian, good to hear your voice and yes, we're doing fine out here. Um, I like to joke that 42 years ago we were just a couple with a black dog. And today we are a couple with a black[inaudible] dog, different black dog and there's been quite a bit of[inaudible] of life. Uh, since that time. Uh, we are doing fine eating well, you know, enjoying walks and, and the like here. Yeah. Um, you know, I've had a lot of time to think about the common bridge and speak with a lot of folks on the phone and through zoom meetings and other correspondence and you know, dive into some books and columns and the like, and you, you know, Brent, I've had the privilege of visiting all 50 States, served clients in our major cities, in the smallest towns and everything in between. And I've often said that my firsthand experience is that America is populated with generous and compassionate people. And what we've seen on display since this crisis began only reinforces that. And to that, I, I've got to add courage and determination and innovation. I mean, GM and Ford are making ventilators. Other manufacturers are like, we're going to pivot. We're going to make personal protective equipment. Oh, it's cool. It's like world war II stuff all over again. It's great. Yeah. And when you talk about the heroes of that time, we have her ROIC, health care providers, paying timing. You're facing Brian Peter's last week, uh, facing the situation head on, massive changes to plan equipment, personnel protocols at great cost to their institutions as well as to the individuals. But they're doing it for community, for their neighbors, for fellow citizens. And of course, look, we also have some of the same pad actors at work, the smears from the political adversaries, deliberate misinformation. Um, as more Chris referenced the news as entertainment partisan websites and the like, you know, running a hit piece after hippies trying to inflame the hysteria people trying to get down to, if only this one thing occurred or this one thing didn't occur, this would be a whole different outcome. Frankly, that's just nonsense. These are complex situations that we're going to react to based on the best information at the time. And upon a retrospect, at some point in the future, we can begin sorting it out. But there's no nonsense of looking for villains at this point, uh, is just counter productive.

Brian Kruger: 3:51

Well, you know, when this, when this finally gets over with, or at least calms down, there's going to be a lot of finger pointing, and certainly during an election cycle it's going to be amazing finger pointing. Um, do you see that kicking up prematurely? Do you think that we're all behaving so far on that and that this, you know, I'm talking more social media than media right now because we know where media is.

Rich Helppie: 4:16

Oh, well, there are people that never give it up and I look, just have to look past it. Just ignore it. You know what they're going to post and where they're going. You know, they don't really care. And having a discussion that's just, I don't know, maybe that's part of American life, at least for now. But you know, this common bridge was set up not to engage in the partisan bickering, which is leading no place, but to deal with policy. And what we've seen exposed during this crisis is our failures to address infrastructure, workforce and health insurance needs. Now, you know, everybody's heard, 16 million people are suddenly out of work. And guess what that means? 16 million families and their communities are about to have a really horrible firsthand understanding of how ridiculous it is to link health insurance with employment. And we've talked a lot about healthcare, um, and the hows and whys of those policies and other podcasts. Yeah. Uh, but that Visier is something that we've known about. We've ignored, we politicize it, we swept it under the rug. We've oversimplified it and now it's coming home to roost. And, and similarly, Brian, look, when you look at the public health matters, there are still way more unknowns than knowns about coven 19. Okay. All right. Look, we don't have good data today. The testing is incomplete.

Brian Kruger: 6:03

Oh really? Yeah. That's been a bad, we don't look so good worldwide on our ability to test this.

Rich Helppie: 6:10

Right. And right now we don't even really know who to test because now there's data kind of creeping out. That might mean we don't know how long this virus can live in a person undetected. And I was reading further that after treatment, it may still be around. So the person goes from being asymptomatic and carrying the Devo, the virus to having an outbreak to seemingly being cured and being tested and still have it. So it's horrifying. We, we just don't know. And so when we're looking at the data, we don't know if the 320 million people in the United States, how many people have it because we haven't tested them. And similarly, we really don't know yet exactly how many people are dying from it because, uh, as you saw Dr. Burks who was a very credible person, said, if a person passes away, no matter what the cause, and if they test positive, apparently even post-mortem for the virus, we're counting that as a coronavirus death, which is not illogical at this point. But eventually that will get sorted out. And we already, I believe, have a hypothesis that complications and comorbidities are really important about how a person might react to this virus. But we are really at the front end of this and yeah, we're at the front end of it and we're going to see it. I think tail off. And in fact we are seeing it and it appears to have some seasonal properties, not unlike influenza, but that doesn't mean that when it comes back around again in the fall that we could be in the same boat and it's going to be really interesting to see how much we learned and the efficiencies or inefficiencies that we've experienced the last few weeks to see how they play out during, during the, the election cycle. Um, it could be very interesting. Yeah. Uh, interesting is, uh, probably high on the list of words that I'd use to describe it and, and look, trying to stay on to the, the policy reactions that we've had. Data today would suggest that the locking down the commerce and limiting movement with the quarantines and a stay at home orders is having an effect. Um, and look, I also know there's a school of thought out there that says this virus blooms like algae and then goes away. And here, look at the data from China. If you can believe that. And here, look at the data from Italy. Again, we just don't know, but it appears that that policy of quarantine and distancing and hand-washing and now mast is having positive effect and but make no mistake, look it, it's pushing us into a depression level, economic crisis. Now that is the least of our worries. And that hyper focus on economic data is silly that the economy doesn't exist for people to serve. The economy is the means of which people obtain the goods and the services that they want. And the data is just an output of measuring, you know, how we are distributing those goods and services. And with all due respect, not everybody sees it that way. And I think that's, that's a very, um, that's a great point. People don't look at it that way unfortunately. And right now what we are, when I use the term depression level, you know, let's not pull any punches. You can't take 16 million workers out of the workforce abruptly and think that things are the same. And look, things are dropping in price. I paid a dollar 43 cents for gasoline yesterday. It's amazing. Inflation adjusted. That's, I mean, that's 60 cents in the 70s I mean it's, it's, it's incredible. It is. And like what? They made me chuckle, someone said, wow, it's like being a teenager again. Gas is cheap and I'm grounded. Yeah. But look, once deflation gets into an economy, it's really difficult to remove it. You know, if I'm going to go out and buy a new lawn mower and I'm going to buy a real fancy one and so pay$600 or something for it, and I think maybe it's going to be five 50 if I wait for a year, I might make the old one goal better at another. And more people do that. Well now the lawnmower factory says, Hey, we don't have enough sales. We've got to lay people off. Well now the people that were working there are going home and saying, you know what? I've got to cut back my spending and I'm not going to buy things that I might otherwise buy. And that's the danger of deflation getting into an economy. But in any case, look at, and in some of the policy responses, I think it's been fascinating. In 2008 when we had the financial crisis and that led to the great recession, the United States policy approach really was to reliquify the country from the top down, uh, on a selective basis. Some commercial banks were saved and others were, you know, pushed over the edge. Same with investment banks. You know, Lehman brothers went under a, there were forced mergers that went on. There was a restructuring of the automobile industry from manufacturing through dealerships. And what happened in the meantime is that people on the other side of that great recession, good people that were going to work, meet their mortgage and such, they lost their jobs, they lost their homes, they lost their credit rating, they lost their health insurance. So you look at the policy response this time, the attempt is to liquefy the economy at the consumer level. So you look at things like enhanced unemployment of$600 a week, paying companies to not lay off workers, stimulus payments parachuted into people's homes if these programs are effective. And if commerce can begin again, then because people have been resourced, they will be speared the loss of their homes. If they make their mortgage or rent payment, their credit ratings are going to remain intact. Zell be called back to work to be gainfully employed and it won't be perfect and we're still going to be left with this notion of how do we get people on healthcare. So now we're replacing their paycheck but they also lost their health insurance. So you know, things we could do quickly would be like dropping the age for Medicare eligibility or broadening Medicaid. You know, the the same way that unemployment benefits have been enhanced or doing both. Sure. Okay. But, but look, the loss of the job and losing the health insurance is a, I don't know what the right analogy is. It's a, it's an iceberg coming up. It's a tsunami of need. But that is an element for the security and we leaving the worry of American people. I think that the approach of reliquify in households is a great idea. It's creeping along an implementation. I, the systems weren't ready for it, but we also have got to make sure that we get after that health insurance piece, which should not be linked to employment. Okay. Well, all right. So if we look at this as a football game, you know, at at best where it halftime, you know, we're talking about maybe nationally this is peaking right now in your view as the quarantine or the stay at home orders. Was that the right policy response? We don't have the, um, the luxury if it were, if you will, um, of being really hyper aggressive like they were in Asia. Do you think we did this right so far? I think based on the best information that was available, um, yes. Uh, the travel restrictions, the stay at home orders, the, all of those are the appropriate response based on the information. And it appears to be working and, and, and, you know, Brian, just to comment a little bit in that, I've, I've done a little bit of digging when folks want to hold up. Well, look what this country did. Well other countries sent in the military to enforce a corn Corenti they did. And I can't imagine how this country would react if the 82nd airborne came in and invaded Manhattan and it would be something. And, and there's others, uh, you know, South Korea, which, you know, of course had their issues with flu epidemics in the past. Their citizens had to wear wristbands that showed your location and your temperature. And then we've had the contact monitoring that would know everybody has gotten within six or 12 feet of Brian Krueger. And, uh, you know, Singapore had cameras outside of residence store. I mean, basically everything in Singapore is observed with cameras and centrally monitored. I don't think America would stand for that. And some of the things of it sunset about some of our elected leaders. Uh, can you imagine January 18th, president Donald J. Trump says effective immediately all Americans up to have a, have to link a doorbell camera to a national grid so we can see where you are. Good luck with that one, right? Yeah, but, but look, speaking of of the orange of the stay at home order, I think a policy we need to start developing as an exit plan, and I learned something really early in my business career from observation that it was more difficult to get out of a business than it was to get into it. Interesting. You know? Yeah. It may. Look, I watched the guy home, hardworking guy owned three dry cleaners, was ready to retire, had a heck of a time selling it. That applies to successful enterprises at all sizes. If friend said to me yesterday, he goes, Hey, you know, marriage is a lot easier than divorce and I'm a male. There's another good example of something, something easy to get in than it is exiting it and, and look, this does not look like there's going to be a day where we just throw a switch and okay, everybody back to your places. Stay at home orders over. That would be a silly B. Nobody would go back to their places. If my governor or a governor asked me what to do, I'd say look, get a, for lack of a better term, blue ribbon Corenti exit panel and keep it small, eight 10 people at the most represent education, local government, business consumers, obviously public health and healthcare providers and have a facilitator that Scott, the power of the gavel so that we get clarity and the blue ribbon panel would be charged with making recommendations to the governor or the governors about which parts of the economy could be safely switched on based on the current conditions. So for example, today in our state of Michigan, apparently landscapers can't legally work and like come on the, if you had a one or two person crew and the crew arrived in separate vehicles and they had masks on and they were working, you know, 50 yards away from other, it seems to me that even a trial period lets you know, in Southwest Michigan counties, let's let landscapers go back to work and let's see if we have any further outbreaks. But rich, don't you think that that um, that decision was based more on class sensitivity than anything else? I mean, surely golfing is not, it is a, is a nice walk around activity. You're hitting a ball around and you're not near anybody. But, um, why read the side of Pennsylvania that it wasn't so much about the golfing itself, but you didn't want to show a society that Hey, you know, if you have enough money or if you're, you know, if you're of certain class you can be out and enjoying this a lot more than if you don't. And um, I've heard that from several levels now that landscaping comes into that as well. People getting their lawns taken care of and such looks bad for the people who can't. Can you comment on that at all? You know, certainly that could be a cause. And you know, certainly if I'm golfing, I'm not near anybody cause I'm going to[inaudible] my ball places like, so shell isn't going to call you up to do a, um, a tiger woods rich healthy shell world and golf. And actually I, I, I always said didn't want to play golf and then I set a circumstances, started playing for the social aspects and I found a lot of balls, uh, when I was golfing cause I was on parts of the course nobody had gone to for years. I hit a wall there, a golf archeologist. But anyway, on a serious does matter. I think if there's a legitimate public health issue because you know, you take, use a golf course as an example. If you have four people going out in the morning to 10 the greens and now you've got four people in a vehicle, you know, while the person that cuts the grass on the fairways would be delighted to be working and earning a paycheck for their rent and such. I don't think they want to go home and say, uh, yeah, you know, I was with a dozen people that were employed by the golf course. We saw whatever the number is, a hundred people golfing today. And so, you know, the exposure going up, just using the arithmetic of the number of people that are exposed to is the risk worth it for a golf game. And this is what I'm saying is that we can start to look at things, you know, like landscaping, a person that maybe physically unable to cut their own grass or plant their own flowers and if it, if it can be done in a safe manner, you know, with again proscribed restrictions. You know, most arrive in single cars cannot be within 50 yards of anyone else must be wearing a mask. Those are things that you can start looking at generating the economy. And you know, one crisis that we're going to have, and I'm saying this tongue in cheek is the demand for haircuts. Yeah, I'm surprised. Yeah the black market hasn't popped up for that one yet. I really am amazed and I've been blessed with genetics that does, I'm not a candidate for this, but there are a lot of people checking the color of their roots. Oh yeah, I am stopping there cause I'm not naming any names the same way. Or, Hey listen, not to jump another topic on this, but a few weeks ago you had a great idea and I'm hearing it talked about in this fourth round of incentive or aid package and that's infrastructure. You had mentioned that you know, now's a good time with interest rates down, borrow some money, get some people out to work and actually use this to help boost the infrastructure issue that we have. Can you speak to that at all? Again, I'm enthusiastic about that idea even more so than before. The single barrier by the way is who gets the credit, and I don't know if you've seen these television heads, but a lot of the policy responses were a collaboration between the treasury department, you know, of the administration, both houses of Congress to push out some, I think pretty good legislation. We have one party running ads that they did it like no, lay off that for awhile. Oh right, exactly. No victory laps. Right? W we, we need you all to put down the partisan politicking and get to policy. So look infrastructure right now the treasury could go out and issue 50 year or even a hundred year bonds and we look at the bridges and the roads and the airport and the communication infrastructure and now exposed. How about adding in reparation of essential manufacturing from China and other places, you know like like medicine and personal protective equipment. And let's bring that back on shore. That's infrastructure. That would be great. And how about you know those smaller hospitals that have been closing seems we need to look at that as well. And by the way, in that care's legislation, there is funding for hospitals and I think this is going to give us pause in what we've been doing to the design of our healthcare delivery system and burden as we pull the layer back as this crisis hits, there's another item in that infrastructure that needs upgrade and that's information systems. I don't know if you've seen the news, but I've been having fun with this one. New Jersey and other States are calling out for COBOL programmers. COBOL is spelled C. O. B. O. L. this is a look, an ancient programming language. And it was designed for a technology called general purpose computers whose roots began in the Eisenhower administration in 1959 and so we've been through the era of, you know, single use computers when you change computers throughout the hardware and software to general purpose computers, the mainframe through client server, through internet one through now what we can do on apps and our unemployment programs are still done in COBOL, which is where I began my career a long time ago. And, and because of the way I had morphed that technical background into businesses, the last time I actually wrote code, I think it was an interface I was writing, it was like 35 years ago and I'm wa and I would like to actually toyed with the idea, do I head out to New Jersey and see if it's like riding a bike or is my brain not going to be able to concentrate that way? Yeah, food, you have to grow a mullet first. You have to get your old stuff back on. Oh no, no, no, but back back then. Okay. I know that they've done it differently this time. But the way re-wrote programs there, you'd go way into the night because you'd get on a roll. There you go. It's so you'd be fueled by caffeine, junk food and rock and roll. And, and now the thought of it, I think I need a really long nap and I'd be sick to my stomach so I'm not sure, but I look at a serious manner. If we're going to look at infrastructure, there are cheaper, better ways to deal with the technology and let's do it right. Not right now. Now's a good time. Everything's, everybody hit the pause button. So why not make the best use of it exact. So there's a good policy response would be infrastructure. And again, I'd broaden it beyond the obvious of the roads and bridges and the light to hospitals to repatriating a central manufacturing to upgrading information systems. Now what about uh, like occupational hazard? Uh, I am really, really glad that you brought that up because while we've told a lot of people to stay home, there are people that have gone into the breach for us. There are police officers, firefighters, EMT, physicians, hospital workers, and and hospital workers. It's the medical people, but it's also the people cleaning the rooms. It's people that are transporting patients. It's people that are greeting you and making sure the parking lot's clean, grocery farmers, meat packing plants. I know I'm leaving people out of there, but we need to step up because right now there are laws on the books. It's presumptive coverage based on line of duty that covers firefighters for certain types of cancers. So this workers' insurance for the firefighters, firefighters, they get, you know, upper respiratory diseases or certain cancers, brain cancers, melanomas, leukemia, lymphoma. Yeah, sure. Michigan has a little part of their law that says they can exclude the benefits if there's been a consistent use of tobacco, but otherwise it's presumed if you've got one of those things that came from your job because the firefighters are going into places that are, and there's so many chemicals and things that it's just unavoidable. Sure. And if we applied that same kind of thinking, if we said, look, a truck driver, a hospital transport person, a doctor, a police officer that contracts coven 19 it's occupational and so fully covered testing and treatment and follow up care and mental health coverage, post traumatic stress disorder. Yeah, exactly. So there would be a great policy matter would be occupational hazard coverage for frontline workers. We owe these people a debt and we, we need as a society to step up for them. I agree. You starting to hear the libertarians chirp up some and in this time sometimes I look at what they, what they say is being a little extreme. Some of it though, especially after here in Michigan, anywhere where we are, you start to listen to them a little bit like how, how much can our democracy take, you know, of some of this limitation. And do you think that there'll be a kickback on that or a R a pushback? Uh, how do you see that playing out? Well, I'm an eternal optimist and I think that we have a uniting set of circumstances of threat, of a disease. And we have a set of United personal responses, I E stay at home and it's not the risk that you're putting on yourself. It's the risk to others, which is, you know, putting all those ahead of yourself is, I think is a key to a happy life. Our democracy absolutely depends on bear and free elections with broad participation. Well, yeah. Well, okay, that's, that's a great topic then. So what do you think about the, any of the voting with an app? You must have some opinions on how this would go. Would it work? Would it not work? Yeah, absolutely. We have the technology today for voter identification and, and we have the technology to make it as easy as possible people to vote, whether it's in person, uh, with a, uh, a instant picture ID and validating that, that, uh, they haven't shown up someplace else with cross-matching facial recognition. There's, we have methods for absentee voting and you know, those are commonplace at this point. And also, you know, we do a lot of business with electronic tokens. Again, very commonplace, very inexpensive. Sure. You know, we, we've had just had the census go around and we have way to lock that down with a code. Banking people have no problem doing their banking and their finances. They trust that within their app, on their phone, in most cases. I don't see how they can't take the next step and say, you know, we could do this for voting. We really could. Absolutely. And if people are worried that there's someone else at the computer or on the, uh, mobile device packing the ballot, guess what? You turn on the camera. And along with the ballot comes a photo of the person that is making the entry. You know, Uber has that so that Uber drivers can't just say, Hey, you know what? I'm busy this weekend and let their brother-in-law drive their car. Because randomly Uber will make the driver look at the app and make sure that it is their qualified drivers. So this is a real common bridge moment for you, rich, because I see a, I see a problem, right? So I see the left not wanting to identify their voters so much on this. So there'd be some pushback. And then I see they're right not wanting this many voters involved with it. Um, where do we find, where do we get in the middle with that? You see what I'm saying? Right? You see the left folks going, well, you know, I want him to be able to vote but not tell you who you are. That's, that shouldn't matter where the right is going to push back the other way. Well, this is where they're both going to be foiled by data. Um, and so let me see if I can draw this parallel. We talked just a minute ago about the lack of data, why we don't know exactly how many cases of coma 19 there are because we don't test for them. Well, we don't know how much voter fraud there might be because we don't test for it. Where we're using a voter ID method of, you know, decades ago. And by the way, it's the same thing with voter suppression there. Now you can have anecdotes both for voter suppression and you can have anecdotes for voter fraud, but that's not data. So if we have good voter ID and we make voting easier, it should satisfy those who think fraud is the problem because Hey, look, uh, you know, this person is submitting this token with their vote, with their photo. There you go. That's a good vote. But also on the voter suppression folks that are, that think that's the issue should be happy because there was an easy way that's universal by the way, easy ways to make sure that person can participate in the democracy. I think, again, you've heard me say this before, I think it's turnout elections bother me. I, I think it's really incumbent on somebody that wants to be in a responsible position to win the vote in their voting jurisdiction.[inaudible] now what do you, what do you say to the folks, and I've heard this already, it's called the Kardashian effect and that is a Kim Kardashian who has 7 million followers a says just vote for this person. And those 7 million followers aren't necessarily the most educated group. And, um, there's some people saying, look, part of our democracy and it always has been, is to be interested enough to get up, go over to your elementary school where you're voting, um, um, station his vote, show up in person, show your ID, show who you are and make those choices. Whereas the Kardashian effect is well, okay. Kink. You know that there's a lot of people going to be voting with, uh, uh, with no, um, background or, or thought process into it. If that's the way they want to cast their vote, that's their right to cast their vote.[inaudible] you're right. It is, I was saying it, I was, I was realizing it was echoing something from the forties on, you know, only smart people can vote. That's right. Yeah. You don't want to have poll taxes, right. You don't want to have poll exams. And you know, let's say that this card dash in effect is really the issue that we have to deal with. There's social media is pretty easy to get to. Um, people have other friends and your friend can tell you, you know how I think voting the way Kardashians tell you to do is a good idea or a not so good idea and, and people can make their decision about how they want to cast their vote. And Brian, look, you know, we've had a name recognition votes cast happens every day and we have single issue votes cast every day. And that's the beauty of a democracy. How I might reach my decision. It may be different than way you reach yours. So you know, we've covered a lot today but uh, is, are there anything, any anything closing thoughts? I don't want to run you all day, but man, this has been a good conversation. But any closing thoughts that you would have as we close out this week as we head into the middle of, of April? More philosophical than policy wise? Uh, and it's certainly not political, certainly not partisan, but I had the thought that maybe America just needed a timeout. And, and I don't mean like the timeout that you give your four year old, but more akin to it's halftime at a football game or it's a period intermission in hockey. You know, we are a country that used to have stores closed on Fridays after Thanksgiving and then it turned into Hey black Friday. And then it's like stores are open at eight and we've all seen the video of really terrible behavior. And then it's like, Oh, you know what? We're going to open at midnight. And then last Thanksgiving it's like stores, rope. Really people are going to leap up from the one universal holiday we've got and race out to buy whatever the hot toy is or something like that. It's so maybe when, and now I saw a uh, an ad, one of the grocery chains said, Hey, we're going to be closed on Easter. Like that was news. And so I look, I think that we're going to, as we exit this, there's going to be a different look in the economy. I think some that I've been talking about for years that we don't know really what the demand is for office space. But guess what, it's not going up. Yeah. We've had less pollution because we've been moving around less. We've been enjoying meals at home and I spoke with a fellow yesterday who tells me that he has a long standing business friend who's in the jigsaw puzzle business. Okay. So, Hey, guess what is selling? Like the proverbial hotcake now? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Right, right. We did one. Yeah, exactly. So when you think about now meals at home and things like basic baking materials like flowers, selling it all time highs, are people going to exit in this quarantine and say, gosh, they've got so much pent up demand and they've got to re, you know, hopefully the spending power from the um, policy responses, are we going to go race out to that breakneck pace again or are we going to say, you know, I've really thought about what's important in terms of time and where I spend, you know, who I spend time with and you know, maybe that Scrabble game with my kids. And the home cooked meal that maybe is a little better than us racing off for the next hit of entertainment. Well folks, there it is rich healthy, the a, his glass is always half full. That's a, that's a really good way to look at this. I agree with all those points. We have, again, a country of compassionate and generous people and I just want to say thanks to the frontline heroes. You know who you are. Thank you. Yeah. Rich, thanks a lot for your time. I know you're busy and I know that you're also, I'm enjoying this time and you should that, that last, uh, take on spending time with your family and how that runs his office. It's just, that's powerful. So, um, we'll see you next week and um, thanks a lot. Thanks a lot for the common bridge and everything you do for it. Brian, always a pleasure. Take care so long you have been listening to Richard healthy's common bridge podcast recording and post-production provided by stunt three multimedia. All rights are reserved by Richard[inaudible]. For more information, visit Richard[inaudible] dot com.