SEL in EDU
Real stories. Practical insights. Everyday Social Emotional Learning (SEL).
SEL in EDU
075: Safe, Stretch, Stick: How Brain Science Transforms Teaching and Learning with Julia Skolnik and Stacy Robeson
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Imagine knowing exactly how to create learning experiences that not only engage students but actually improve their brains. This fascinating conversation with Julia Skolnick, CEO of Professional Learning Partnerships, and second-grade teacher Stacy Robeson reveals the powerful intersection of neuroscience and education that every educator should understand.
At the heart of effective learning lies what Skolnick calls the "Safe, Stretch, Stick" model—a profound yet accessible framework grounded in brain science. When students feel psychologically threatened, their brains cannot process academic content. Students can take risks and stretch beyond their comfort zones only when they feel secure, ultimately making learning memorable.
This foundation expands into the "Six Gears" framework—trust, agency, passion, memorable, meaningful, and motivational—which provides a comprehensive approach to designing learning experiences that align with how our brains naturally work. Robeson brings these concepts to life through her classroom experiences, sharing how even second-graders thrive when given appropriate levels of agency and opportunities to pursue passions.
Perhaps most compelling is the conversation around teacher agency and efficacy. Schools can revitalize educator passion and student learning outcomes by reclaiming protected spaces for teacher innovation and growth.
Ready to transform your teaching through brain science? Listen to this episode to start your journey toward creating classrooms where students learn more effectively and develop a genuine love of learning that lasts a lifetime.
EPISODE RESOURCES:
Introduction to SEL in EDU Podcast
Speaker 1Welcome to SEL in EDU, the podcast where we explore how educators bring social, emotional learning to life by sharing stories, strategies and sparks of inspiration. I'm your host, Dr Krista Lay, owner of Resonance Education. Thank you for joining us on this SEL journey.
Speaker 2This is Robin Wilson, host of the Education Connection, a proud member of the Education Podcast Network. Each show on the network is independently owned and the views expressed may not represent those of other podcasts. For the best education podcasts, visit edupodcastnetworkcom.
Speaker 1Julia Skolnick, msed, is the CEO and founder of Professional Learning Partnerships, also known as PLP, which is an organization dedicated to transforming learning and leadership using brain science through long-term partnerships with K-12 districts. Building upon 20 years of experience working in schools, research laboratories and museums, she founded PLP to empower educational leaderships, to leverage brain science as a tool for meaningfully advancing learning, leadership and culture in K-12 schools. Julia creates the overarching vision for PLP, designs innovative and research-based professional learning programs and cultivates sustained partnerships with a growing network of school districts across the United States. Julia, I am so happy to have you on SEL and EDU. We have been friends for oh my goodness, it's going on five years now because we met you during COVID. I know it seems like forever and yet it seems like yesterday at the same time. So thank you and welcome, and I know you brought a friend along with you.
Speaker 3Yes, Krista, thank you so much for having me. I'm in such awe of your work and have been for a long time, so it's really an honor to be here. I'm joined with my friend and colleague, Stacey Robeson from Struble Elementary in Bent Salem Township School District. Stacey is a graduate of our PLP Leadership Fellows Program and she's also a core team member of the Think Tank at Ben Salem, so she's a major player in PLP and I'm really glad she's here to speak about her expertise in SEL connected with our work in brain science.
Speaker 4Thank you so much for having me. I feel so honored and blessed. When Julia asked, I was like absolutely. This is an amazing opportunity. I've learned so many amazing things through Julia and she's such an inspiration every time I'm with her. I feel like I'm a better educator every single time. So thank you so much for having me is mutual.
Speaker 1I love the work that you do. You're so freaking smart. One of my most aha moments was when you were telling me about the work in the museum, and I said the museum because I want you to be able to share what it was that you did before you started Professional Learning Partnerships, because not many people have the background that you have.
The Three Brain Science Essentials for Teachers
Speaker 3Yes, my background is unusual and I like that because I think of myself trying to bring worlds together that are not working together. So I've been in different spots. When I was an undergrad in college at Brandeis University, I was studying to be a classroom teacher, so I was in the elementary ed program but my major was psychology and cognitive science and I was taking classes that the two worlds never crossed. No one in my ed classes was in my psychology and brain science classes and vice versa, and that planted the seed of how I was really interested in both the brain and education, but they lived separately. I worked in research after college, so I was working in schools, but then I also had a chance to work in a memory lab at University of Pennsylvania, which was wild and amazing because I saw memory research up close First I learned research lab does not fulfill me, but I was able to appreciate the depth and just amazingness of what researchers knew about the brain that I wanted every teacher to know as well. So I also worked at Northwestern in their school of education. I got my master's degree in learning sciences there when we were in Chicago area and that was again trying to bring the science of how we learn into the hands of educators. So back then it was Chicago Public Schools, it was Evanston Public Schools and when we relocated back to Philadelphia, I worked at the Franklin Institute for over a decade. Interestingly, my start there was in connecting libraries and museums around STEM education and trying to bring it into the informal space. But when we got the brain exhibit in 2014, the stars aligned.
Speaker 3The story is that Dr David Boff from Benton-Salem Township School District reached out to the museum and he's I want to bring my administrators down for a retreat to learn about the brain. Can anyone on your team lead a training? And this call came into my boss and they were like can anybody do this? And I was like I've been waiting for this for a decade. Please, let me do that. And that was the birth of relationships with districts around brain science and education, and the rest is history. It's taken on a completely different life since the beginning there, but trying to honor what school districts need, I think, which is this depth in understanding learning, but then a lot of space to figure out how to innovate with support from a partner like me. So PLP is now living out that vision.
Speaker 1You just mentioned that there were things about the brain that you thought every teacher should know. Could you share? And I see this is the times when I wish we were on the brain that you thought every teacher should know Could you share? And I see this is the times when I wish we were on video so that you could see Julia's eyes get big. And yes, so I'm gonna distill it down and say if you could pick two or three big ideas, what would you want every K to 12 teacher to know about the brain?
Speaker 3That is such a good question and I feel like I'm of. My eyes tell a lot. When I get excited or I have an idea, my eyes bulge out. I love that you picked up on that, krista. And then I want to ask Stacey the same question, because we might have different perspectives on it.
Speaker 3But I think the reason why I love connecting brain science and education is I think back to myself as a student teacher in Boston area and I just remember feeling like I had so many more questions than answers. I was like where do I start? How do I engage kids? I really am unsure about what's going to work for them, yet I'm being told to do a thousand things from administrators, curricula. It just felt like a weird landscape. When I learned about the brain, I felt like everything just snapped into place for me, like when you're trying to make long-term memories and you're trying to create a space where people can be vulnerable to take risks. That made more sense to me than trying to do everything under the sun that a teacher was expected to do. So you asked me what are the three things that I would want people to know, and I've refined this over time, so I think this framework may be new to you, krista. So we have two frameworks now at PLP. One is the six gears, which I'm sure we'll get to. A simpler version of that I use as an entry point is called safe stretch stick. That's our safe stretch stick model. Our trademark is pending, so it's coming.
Speaker 3But safe is that our brains need to feel safe and secure in order to even be available for learning, which is why social emotional learning is so important. If our brains are preoccupied by any kind of threat, the chemical signals in our brain to create synapses in areas needed for academic learning are not available. That really blew my mind when I learned that. So if we're trying to drill math knowledge for a kid who is feeling unsafe and in fight, flight or freeze mode, that is a waste of time. That is not what they need. So safe is number one, and that's true for adults as well. If an adult feels threatened or judged, a lot of that comes into like evaluations or walkthroughs. If you're trying to have a logical conversation and they're not feeling safe with you, that's not going to get through. So safe is number one. Stretch number two is that once our brains feel safe and you, that's not going to get through.
Speaker 3So safe is number one. Stretch number two is that once our brains feel safe and secure, we can then take risks to be vulnerable and learn new things. If we're not stretching, we're not learning. So we have to be able to grow outside of our comfort zone. But that's usually hard and can make us not feel smart and confident. So we need skills to support that stretch when we feel uncomfortable. And then the third big idea is stick, which is are we designing experiences that are actually memorable and meaningful for people? If we're just saying important content and trying to transfer knowledge just by saying it, that's not memorable. We have to design experiences where people are constructing their own knowledge, they're applying it to their real world or real practice, using it over and over again. So those are the three big ideas I think are important. To start with is the safe stretch and stick.
Speaker 1You mentioned the six gears and that is something that I'm familiar with, and you've mentioned this safe stretch and stick, Stacey, I do want to dig into the six gears, but I'm curious when you hear the six gears and the safe stretch and stick no-transcript.
Speaker 4After learning all of this with Julia, it really came to the forefront of my mind to like really focus in on this in my classroom.
Speaker 4I did it before but it wasn't like at the top of my mind.
Agency: Giving Students Power in Learning
Speaker 4So I do start noticing more and more children who are in that fight or flight mode and who do need that trust and that safety piece first before they're going to learn. Four, they're going to learn. So I try to build that right away from day one, build that rapport with my students. Know that they can trust me and if they can't, don't feel comfortable speaking with me, finding other people who they feel comfortable speaking with or sharing things with, because I have found that if those things are not in place, nothing is going to stick, nothing's going to stretch, they're not going to take those risks.
Speaker 4So all the things Julia talks about are absolutely 100% true and I wish all educators could hear her say these things, because when you go into education, student teaching and even in your coursework, they just teach you what to do in a classroom, not teach you how to deal with children. You don't learn until you're on the job. And this is year 16 for me and only the past few years have I really started to apply. I'm seeing so many better outcomes because my kids are willing to take more risks, they are willing to stretch and things are sticking better because they're more memorable and more meaningful to them.
Speaker 1What are some of the pieces that you rely on to make things memorable and meaningful for your second graders?
Speaker 4I really have been relying on agency. I did my passion project last year through the fellowship and I focused on agency in the classroom and it was a little scary with second graders what can I give them? So I started small, just with options on how to sit on the carpet and options of where they're going to work, and then I moved up a little bit and I started giving them options of how they would complete an assignment. So things like that, little things a little bit at a time, and even those little things made them take those risks and it made everything so much more meaningful for them. Things were sticking and they were excited to do the things that they might not have been excited to do before.
Speaker 4I saw a lot of gains in vocabulary. So for that active, activating prior knowledge and having all that background, it's so important for them and just giving them options for different ways to complete their vocabulary every week, they loved it and they were learning and using the words after we use them, finding them in books Look, mrs Robeson, this word's in my book today and so they were able to apply it in the real world. So it was really great. I've continued to do that this year with my group this year and just continuing to encourage them to take those risks and keep trying.
Speaker 1One of the things that you said that I am a full supporter of is you use the word agency with the students, and that is an SEL skill under self-management. It's developing personal and collective agency. So what is good for you, what is good for the group? And I've worked with educators who are like these words are too big for our young kids Okay, how else can we phrase this? But I'm a full supporter of just working on that. What was your approach in bringing what can seem like a big word and making having it make sense for your seven and eight year olds?
Speaker 4I did exactly what you just said. I said we're going to learn a really big word today and it's agency, and all that means is that you take ownership of your learning and you learn the way you're going to learn. And they were like, oh, we know what that means is that you take ownership of your learning and you learn the way you're going to learn. And they were like, oh, we know what that means. We can do that and they've taken over with it and we're actually for. Our think tank goal was to incorporate more agency throughout the school. In may, we're hoping to have an agency showcase where each pod opens up, they do a project with their students and the projects get to the children, get to figure out how they want to complete the assignment and then they're going to be displayed around the school and all of the families are going to be able to come in and see what the kids have done and see how they've taken ownership of their own learning.
Speaker 1And I. One of the key pieces I heard you say earlier is that there's options, because sometimes people think agency means whatever you want to do, and that's so overwhelming for any of us as humans and Julia, you're going to be able to jump in here too with the brain science. When we have too many options, that's overwhelming. Working on building that in small pieces with some scaffolds is really important.
Speaker 3Yeah, absolutely. It's so funny this conversation that we're having, because who knows agency better and the desire for agency than kids? Right, like they might not have the word for it, but they know that they want to make choices. And what's interesting about the brain science is this is hardwired into us. This is a fundamental need we have. When we are able to pursue our own choices and feel in control, there's more dopamine flowing through our brain, we're more regulated, our amygdala is able to calm down.
Speaker 3What Stacey did so brilliantly is just put a name to the feeling, which everybody needs. And even adults will look at me sometimes and be like I don't know how to define agency. I know I've heard the word, I don't know what it means. I break it down even just to talk about the word agent, and we'll have fun with that. Like, when you think about an agent, what does that mean to you? What examples have you seen? And kids know about secret agents or ninjas or whatever they'll come up with, but the idea is like you're the ambassador, you're in charge, you have power. That's been more of what we talk about in our trainings around agency is this idea of power, who has it and how can we give more of it to people because their brains are craving it.
Speaker 3But what's interesting what you said, krista when we have too much that can overwhelm us and feel like we don't know where to begin, we get frustrated. It's not as productive, stacey, that was incremental for your kids. Let's start with a little bit and see how that goes a little bit more. And what you are embodying which is another one of our gears that relates to safety is trust. You're showing that you trust the students. By giving them freedom to make a choice, they show that they're capable of it. They earn more self-esteem, more self-efficacy, and then you can give them even more agency.
Speaker 3I think, while that's really critical for kids, we need them to leave school being able to make good decisions for themselves when teachers and adults aren't around. But also what I see lacking is teacher agency. Today especially is feeling like there's so many demands. We're getting tighter and tighter on teacher creativity nationally because we're so worried about outcomes and scores, but that really diminishes fulfillment for educators and also the quality of the learning. How do we rebuild back up teacher agency slowly but surely in a way where they feel empowered and we also get good results? It's not an either or.
The Six Gears Model for Effective Learning
Speaker 1I'm feeling personally filled hearing you say that, because I was just working with two districts last week and my area of comfort is secondary, middle school and high school. That's where I spent my 15 years and working with the teachers. Sel is not a program. I'm not coming in here telling you here's your skill, you're working on, here's how it's going to do, and we're all doing the same thing. That's just not one real life. It's not reasonable and it doesn't give you a sense of agency or honor your expertise and your knowledge of the students. So we're going to talk about different strategies that you can use, but it's up to you to determine where is your strength, what do your students need, what is the context of your classroom in terms of instructional practices and what does your curriculum require and where are those connections happening, giving people that sense of agency where we can support you.
Speaker 1You have a lot of autonomy on what that looks like, and I want to hit on another keyword you said there, julia efficacy. I love that word and I fully admit to all of you listening. A couple of years ago I had to Google what is efficacy, what is agency, what's the difference? Because they kept getting mixed up in my head and I'm getting a clearer sense. Those are such powerful words. And when you think about efficacy, julia, what does that look like or sound like for you?
Speaker 3I agree. I think efficacy, at least from the research perspective, is very layered and complex, and so it's not a simple term. But when I think about it as far as human development, whether you're a student or an adult, do you have enough belief in yourself that you can accomplish something and you can do something challenging? It's a mix of confidence and self-esteem, but also evidence that you've had experiences that demonstrate capability, and so I believe what the research suggests. This is not my exact area of expertise, but that self-efficacy is an indicator of success in a lot of domains, so that if you have enough experience being successful, not only are you more successful, but an area we talk about in brain science is motivation. You have more intrinsic motivation to work hard and persevere through the stretch when you have self-efficacy. It breeds more motivation, and so what I think that could mean for us as educators is are we designing experiences so that kids develop self-efficacy? And agency is an enormous part of that. Freedom is part of that. If all kids do is going through the motions when they're in school, and I'll bridge that to teachers too. If teachers feel like they're going through the motions and it's not really about growth as an individual, there's a ceiling associated with that You're not really going to be able to.
Speaker 3Which I think is a priority for professional learning partnerships is to develop that efficacy for teachers and leaders. It's so important to me to provide space for people who want to grow, who want to think about the brain and learning and innovate, and protect some space for them to do that in a way where they blossom as individuals. And I've seen Stacey do that. I've seen all of our fellows, both administrators and teachers, just step back a little bit and reclaim what do I care about in education, what's my vision and how do I do something in the form of a passion project that I care about, and I see them transform from start to finish a different leader because they've created efficacy for themselves. I think that's my perspective, but, stacey, you can talk about it because you went through it.
Speaker 4I agree, before I did any of this work with you, I didn't feel like I had a whole ton of self efficacy.
Speaker 4I thought I was just going through the motions of everything. But after doing the fellowship and joining the Think Tank team I feel like I do have that power back to make decisions for my classroom and luckily I have a very supportive administrator and she tells us if you need to stop what you're doing to work on SEL, you can stop and you can work on that. So I use a lot of teachable moments in my classroom and I have really become such a better educator going through the PLP program because I know all of this important brain science and this work and I've actually done it so I put it into practice so we can sit through seminars and professional development. But until you go through it and you actually breathe it and live it and sleep and eat it, you don't really know right. I feel like a much better educator going through that. I wish everybody could do it and know that this is really important work and this is what all educators need to be doing to make our classroom so much better for our students.
Speaker 1Stacey, the pieces that I'm hearing you say and you mentioned it earlier too the intentionality of something, the all-encompassing, that it's not just something that happens at a certain time, a certain day of the week, and I often say that SEL is the lens through which I view the world. It just becomes part of who you are and what you do. And your words were you're not just going through the motions when we're able to find that clarity in the mix that is teaching and learning right now, so many mandates, and I love the idea, julia, that you're creating this space that is protected for people to reclaim that sense of agency, to develop efficacy. The other piece that really I latched onto was that you need those pieces in order to stretch.
Speaker 1Thinking about the SEL skills, they're not discrete, they do build on each other and they're interconnected. When you have agency, it allows you to build efficacy and that helps build motivation. Those are three interconnected skills right there and we want our students to stretch. But we stretch as educators trying something new in the classroom with students that you never know how it's really going to go, julia. As professional learning facilitators, we create and come up with ideas, and we're stretching too when we try something out for the first time. I would love to hear from you both about how that stretch feels for you and how you can use that to help reinforce a growth mindset and the like. Not everything happens perfectly the first time. How do we model that as we're growing in all of?
Speaker 3these ways I hold myself to a really high standard. I push myself really hard which has diminishing returns. I wish I could stop a little before I push myself too hard. So I think there's some beauty in doing something to a point and then letting go a little bit, just to have grace both for myself, for others. So is good enough is good? Perfect doesn't exist. Let's pull back a little. Just expectations wise. But interestingly, I'm always reading about the brain. I just can never get enough and one of my favorite recent books is called Wired to Resist by Andriada Dr Andriada, and the reason why I looked up that book I'll come back to your question in a minute.
Speaker 3I had a principal say to me in a training about science of learning and leadership that I do for administrators. They asked me I feel like I just have some teachers who are built to resist Whatever I put in front of them. They just will fight back. Is their brain wired differently to do that, differently to do that? And I thought to myself you know that's a complex question with a complex answer, but just remember, all of our brains have wired around our experiences to protect ourselves over the last years of our lives. So if you have a teacher who's really resisting you, chances are there's a reason for that that they've had administrators who have made them feel really defensive or something a term that came up. I want to credit Bristol Township School District. In our training we came up with professional trauma. We've all experienced professional traumas that shape our brains to be a certain way. I wanted to dive into this research and just figure out. I know it's not a personality trait, but what is that experience when people are resisting change and are not willing to stretch or see stretch as too threatening Turns out there are lots of brain regions involved with this very natural reaction to change, and one of them I'm pretty sure it's the habenula, but I'll have to check myself.
Speaker 3Part of our limbic system, which regulates our emotional experience of the world, is actually trying to protect ourselves from failure. One of its jobs is to avoid failure so that we maintain our well-being. That was news to me, I knew. Psychologically we want to avoid failure, especially in our culture, because we want to do well, but there may actually be a biological element where it's against our nature to take a risk that could end badly for ourselves.
Speaker 3Risk to take if you're putting yourself out there Academically, if you're afraid of how this will affect your grade and then for teachers you know how your supervisor sees you, how the scores come back to you will it affect your Danielson rating and PA? So biologically it's overcoming a lot of obstacles to try to stretch yourself if you're not sure you can do it. And I just think there's some element to that for us as educators and leaders, to have more empathy when people don't want to stretch. And it makes me go back to safe, which in our six gears is trust and agency. How do we create an environment that makes people feel really secure to mess up, knowing that biologically we're going to do everything we can to not mess up?
Speaker 1I'm thinking that part of my brain is extra big too because I have to push myself, and I have a friend who's like our mutual friend, tammy Musialski is let it go, release it, put it out there into the ether and see what comes back. I'm reading a book, or listening to a book, right now, called Courage to be Disliked. We've come across that one, oh my goodness. It's very much focusing on Alfred Adler's psychology, and they touch on trauma and why we make choices, we do and don't take risks, and it's challenging a lot of my previously held beliefs, and so it's a cognitively enriching book for me. I'm hearing, and now I want to read Wired to Resist because, yeah, why are some people ready to jump on board for things versus what keeps people like holding back? And some of the stuff I read too, about competing values and how do we navigate that? Stacey, I'd love to hear from your point of view how do you navigate some of that? What are your thoughts?
How Project-Based Learning Embodies Brain Science
Speaker 4a staff who's wonderful. But I definitely see, like being the think tank leader, sometimes that resistance and what Julia said makes so much sense. I was thinking as she's saying this I feel so blessed to be a second grade teacher, because the kids don't know. If I'm making a mistake, they're seven and eight, so I've been teaching this is your 14 and second grade. I know second grade content like the back of my hand. I feel lucky that I do feel a little bit more comfortable to stretch and make some, take some risks. Even if I do mess up, I tell the kids oh wait, mrs Robeson made a mistake. We all make mistakes. It's okay to make those mistakes. I try to make them okay with it. You can see even the little ones that have that perfectionism in them and they don't wanna make those mistakes. So I try to work with them a little bit, even more one-on-one, to encourage them that's okay to take that risk and be silly, try something new. It's okay if you get something wrong.
Speaker 4And I also have a student teacher this year. She's wonderful and she has reignited my flame for teaching, which is wonderful. But I keep telling her this is a safe space and this is the best space for you right now to take risks. Try something new. If there's something you wanna try, do it. Let me know and we'll do it, because right now I'm there with her. I can help guide her through it. When she's on her own and she's a brand new teacher, she might not be able to. Over the last few years I've become more comfortable with taking risks, especially working through PLP and the brain science and the six gears. It's really given me a lot of reassurance to do that and my administrator is also very supportive of obviously sticking to the curriculum but also doing the things that children love to do. Yes, we do our curriculum, but we take breaks from things so that we make sure that kids are still loving and enjoying school.
Speaker 1What you just said. There is a universal goal with all of the administrators and teachers I've worked with over the last 15 years is a desire to want to have students love learning. A desire to want to have students love learning, not even a particular content area, not achievement, but just learning to love the process and the cause. And I would even venture to see the missteps or the mistakes or failures, if you want to call it as a step, because you're still learning something and so it might feel a little bit differently, but it's still part of that process.
Speaker 4Right, I've started looking a lot at the growth that my students are making instead of the outcome of what they do. Did you improve last time? You got this, but we did so much more and now we're here, so even trying to show them that growth I'm working a lot with my son is in sixth grade and he's like anti-school right now. Yes, we got this, but next time we'll look and see how we've grown, really trying to get him to have that self-efficacy and wanting to do things. Just working through all those things with my students, my son, my colleagues, all of those things. It's all a process and it's okay to make mistakes and we all have to just try our best to move through them.
Speaker 1You're reminding me of ongoing conversations I've had with my middle son, who is a sophomore at Villanova and is taking organic chemistry too. They are, I know, and that's not even his major, he just likes chemistry. He's a civil engineer who works in the chemistry lab and but he's I'm struggling and I'm like, but are you learning no more now than you knew last month? And do you know more now than you did in September? Because you liked the professor, you liked the content. If you had an A you wouldn't need to be taking the class, so trying to help him. See that, are you putting in the best that you can do on any given time and I realized that's not going to be a hundred percent all the time because you have other classes but if you can confidently say you're giving it your best effort on any given day and are you making progress, that's a win making progress.
Speaker 3that's a win. Oh my gosh, when I think about when I truly started to love learning, it was not until graduate school. I have to say I did what I had to do to get grades and that was just what school was about. But for me personally and now it's neat to see that brain science support it once you can really find something you're passionate about, then the growth is intrinsically desired and you don't care as much about missteps because you're trying to learn something you were really deeply curious about. And that just makes me ask so many different questions about how we structure education. But if it was more about garnering love for learning and we had more agency to develop passions, would we be more intrinsically motivated to learn and therefore it's more meaningful and memorable, as opposed to standards, aligned assessments taking the joy out. Is that what education is all about? I don't know.
Speaker 4Unfortunately, I think that's where we are right now. We were just talking about this the other day about grades, especially with K-2. Kindergarteners are just learning. They just have come into the world of education and that should be the stepping stone for loving to come to school. We have to give them grades Like they need to get an A, B, C, like on a report card, and I just feel like it is so hard to get children to love learning when they are just striving for that grade. They all want that A. Even when I give out a, give back a test, what number did you get? I'm like we don't have to worry about that. You just have to worry about what you were able to do and what you're able to do next time. It's very hardwired in our brains to look at grades and say if I got an A, I did well, and I always tell my students, if you got A's in everything, you wouldn't have to come to second grade and Mrs Robeson wouldn't have a job.
Speaker 1Yes, we talked a little bit about trust and agency and Stacey and Julia. Would you be willing to talk about the four or, if you want to add in, about trust and agency and how they're all six are connected?
Speaker 3For sure I'll paint the picture and then Stacey grab on the pieces that speak to you. So our six gears model, the framework, is a deeper dive into safe stretch and stick. It's these six essential elements that we know from brain science, which includes neuroscience, cognitive science, psychology, education these six essential components for designing a learning experience and culture for students of any age and staff as well, because they're deep-seated human needs. So the six gears, three are what we call our social emotional gears and three are our cognitive gears. The social emotional gears are trust, agency and passion. The cognitive gears are memorable, meaningful and motivational. The cognitive gears are memorable, meaningful and motivational. If we can provide a strong sense of trust and safety and security, give people power to make choices that align with their values and give them space to connect and cultivate passions, they can really thrive in any environment. Those pieces are really important. That enables the cognitive experience where research tells us how to create more memorable, long-lasting experiences and knowledge and skills. If it's not meaningful, it's not memorable is what the research says. We have to allow people to make meaning out of experiences.
Speaker 3The motivation piece is controversial, I would say in schools, where the research suggests the heavier we lean on extrinsic drivers of motivation, the more we extinguish intrinsic motivation. While it's okay to start a behavior with a prize or a punishment, once the behavior is learned let's turn it intrinsic and find the internal value. That's what allows people to have longer-term success and they motivate themselves. They don't need us to be rewarding them constantly. I also now I'm talking about them in a different way, where trust and agency establish safety. Passion and motivation relate to stretch. How do we get people to stretch themselves from within? And then the stick is memorable and meaningful. You can slice and dice any of those ways, but the science behind each of those is really deep.
Speaker 1I love the interconnectivity and the multiple ways of looking at that. I find that very appealing. Stacey, what does this look like in practice for you, or with your students, or in your own life?
Speaker 4For example, we're in second grade, we do a Salute to America show, and so this is something that's super memorable, super meaningful, motivational. It motivates them to want to do all the things. There's parts in the show that they can you know, solo parts if they choose to be one, that they can be a part of that. Everybody comes together and we work together to make this humongous, amazing show. Every year. It is something that's so memorable to the students. That's something where I have those six gears definitely coming together. They have to trust that we're going to get them to the end result. They have to trust themselves, the agency they get to choose what they're going to be and the role that they're going to do and how they're going to do that role. A passion if they have a passion for singing or a passion for cheering or a passion for doing a monologue on stage, that passion is there for them. All those other gears. It's super motivating, memorable and meaningful.
Using Music and Connection in the Classroom
Speaker 4Kids will come back from years past because the show's been going on for about 30 years. I've only been doing it for 12, but 30 years. Kids will come back and say I remember that, I love that. That was part and it's not part of the curriculum, but it's something that our administrator has kept as a safe for us to do every year so that we can make things more meaningful for them. We do count it as part of their social studies grade, because they're learning so much history and so much content through this and they have to apply it. So that's what's on the forefront of my mind using the six gears and reminding them that they need to have all those things to be able to make this show work.
Speaker 3Can I add one thing, Stacey, what I love about that? Often people will say six gears, live here. Or engaging fun. Learning is this and curriculum is this and what you just described. They are the same. If we can create memorable, meaningful experiences, they will learn the content better. It will stick better. I would love to see more project based curriculum, more theatrical, socially connected ways of learning content. They're not different. It's a better way of remembering what you're trying to teach them Absolutely.
Speaker 1And as a former social studies teacher, I would say you are addressing content in a fun, meaningful, memorable way From an SEL lens. Out of the 40 skills, the other two that jumped out as you were talking is under self-awareness, giving students an opportunity to recognize their assets and strengths, and then under social awareness, it's recognizing strengths in others. When people have the agency, the choices, they're able to highlight something that is important to them and something that they're strong at. It gives people opportunities to recognize oh my gosh, they're really great at this. That might not be in my wheelhouse. I wanna partner with them and learn from them. How can we work together? Oh my God, they're a great speaker. I didn't know that. So it's really enhancing identity development in the students as well and allowing them to get to know each other in new ways. Oh, that would have fantastic activity, project learning experience for the students and the fact that they're coming back 30 years later talking about that.
Speaker 4Every kid sings the songs. Every kid knows every part by the end of the show They've all taken such like an interest and really have thrown themselves into it. It really does become a passion for them. Our only group that didn't get to do it was our COVID group and they were so devastated by that. They still learned all the songs and they still get to learn the parts through little siblings and when they come to see the show. It definitely is one of the highlights of my year and I really look forward to it every year. It's very hard to put together and we have to work really hard, but it does teach them that you have to persevere, you have to do all these things in order to have an end result. That and every year it comes out beautifully.
Speaker 3So there's brain science in that too. I'm reading another book called the Dose Effect and we get naturally we get dopamine from hard work stretched over time. So when you really put in that hard work and you see the benefits, that's teaching your brain a healthy way to get that reward instead of gaming on my phone, social media, whatever it is.
Speaker 1So that is also modeling a very natural motivation strategy that will set them up for success down the road to hard work yields benefits and in my mind I'm imagining Stacey in a year or two, facilitating the performance of the COVID students who remembered all of their stuff and come back as middle school students and put on performance five years later.
Speaker 3You should do that All of your time?
Speaker 4They totally would do it. They would come back and do it. They are sixth graders now. If I asked them to come down and do it, they would come down and do it.
Speaker 1It has been such a joy talking and learning from you. I have so many connections that I'm making and books I want to read, and there's still more to talk about, and so I think maybe you'll have to come back on again, because I want to dig into your think tank and the portrait of a graduate and all this phenomenal work that you're doing with schools. For right now, julia, if people who are listening want to get ahold of you, what is the best way to reach out to you, to do work together, to partner, to learn more about how to create and reclaim this space for their own educators?
Speaker 3Yes, Thank you so much, Krista. I would love to continue conversations together and we are always looking for more educators and district partners. So I would say, visit our website. And district partners? So I would say, visit our website wwwlearningpartnershipsorg. You can reach out to me via that website, but you can also see our programs and partnership opportunities. Single people can join, whether it's through our innovation summit or our fellowship program, but oftentimes we partner with leaders of public school districts and think about a partnership that provides multi access points for teachers and leaders to join. But one of my favorite roles is thought partner to motivated educator. So if you're just looking for someone to help point you in the direction of resources or get you excited about something in this area, I will do that all day, every day.
Speaker 1Thank you, and Stacey. There's teachers that are listening too and they're like, oh my gosh, I want to connect with her to see, pick her brain about what's happening in the classroom. Would you be willing to be a thought partner for people too? How would they reach you?
Speaker 4Absolutely. That would be amazing. They can absolutely reach me through email SAR261 at msncom. I'm always willing to collaborate with others. I learned so well through getting ideas off of others, bouncing ideas, so please reach out with anything you have.
Speaker 1Thank you. So the last question is we wrap up and, julia, I actually think you're going to this one because it's memorable and it ties into something memorable and meaningful. But I am a huge lover of music and, just from a social studies perspective, it's what brings people together, it helps us come and regulate and gets us centered in a lot of different ways. So, for both of you, what is on your playlist right now?
Episode Wrap-Up and Contact Information
Speaker 3So, for both of you, what is on your playlist right now? What is a song, a group, a genre that you're really into affects me physically and emotionally. So I have a really different relationship with music now. Where it's like my, it's a small window of music works for me. Everything else just either makes me feel crazy or angry or sad or whatever. So I right now I'm really liking listening to instrumental versions of hits from like the eighties, nineties and two thousands. I love that. I love it too, so I can listen to that on a drive to a professional development or after and rock out myself. But no one's like offending me with words. I'm just hearing the melodies and for some reason that soothes my nervous system Absolutely.
Speaker 4I am a pop princess. I listen to all pop music in my outside life, but at school it's funny that you say instrumental I listened to a lot of instrumental Disney music, but the kids still know it. If they know the song, they can sing along while they're working. Or if they don't know, they just listen to it. Sing along while they're working. Or if they don't know, they just listen to it.
Speaker 1I love Disney, all Disney movies, so it just gives me peace and happy and calm and joy. In my classroom, when I'm doing deep work, I can't have words. I like to hum along or to have something in the background that helps me focus. So I love that. There's a commonality there and that's another thing. When we're talking about bringing people together and building community, getting a chance to see what we're connected in, or instrumental, like 80s and 90s, that's because that's when I grew up and those are core memories that get associated. But you're right about some of the lyrics, because sometimes I'd go back and I'm like, oh, I didn't know, that's what this?
Speaker 1lyric was for this song, but just to have that melody in the background.
Speaker 3There is so much brain science behind why music is like a full brain and body experience. It's like really engages all areas, so it's really memorable. You're right on about that.
Speaker 1Thank you so much, both of you, for your time and sharing your expertise. It just was a really great way to start my day today.
Speaker 4Thank you, I feel honored to be here. Thank you.
Speaker 3Thank you, Krista. Thank you for all the work that you do to build up SEL competencies in schools and people. It's so necessary.
Speaker 1I learn all the brain pieces from you to fill in what I'm reading slowly and getting more into. I'm like, oh, I know Julie will know about this.
Speaker 3Bring it to me. I'm always wanting to learn more.
Speaker 1Thank you again. Thank you again for tuning in to this episode of SEL in EDU. At Residence Education, we equip educators with knowledge, skills and resources to design learning experiences that foster students' academic, social and emotional growth. We believe that every small action to foster connections and growth creates ripples shaping the future.
