Dr. Tim Thayne interviews Vashti Summerville on allowing growth to happen to your kid. Often times as a parent our instinct is to protect them, but this isn't the most helpful thing all the time when it comes to their development. In this podcast, you will learn how to judge when and how you should allow this growth.
Dr. Tim Thayne interviews Vashti Summerville on allowing growth to happen to your kid. Often times as a parent our instinct is to protect them, but this isn't the most helpful thing all the time when it comes to their development. In this podcast, you will learn how to judge when and how you should allow this growth.
I want to thank Bosch de Somerville for being here on test today. She's one of the transition coaches here. We're really grateful for her to be here. We're going to talk about something really interesting. I think, many, many listeners will want to hear about this. It's a practical kinds of ideas around helping our young adults actually launch and become independent. And Voss, she's had quite a bit of experience with this, especially lately. So she's dug into this content, and been able to help a lot of families with this issue. And so I think it's gonna be really practical, really interesting. And this came to, really to my attention again, this this past month, we had our annual advance at Homeward Bound, and VOSH to give a presentation, kind of like a TED talk for our team. And it was one of the most helpful TED Talks I'd heard and just thought we have to get her on this podcast. So Vashti thank you for joining us for the podcast today.
Vashti Summerville:Thank you for the invitation. It's so nice to be here, Tim.
Dr. Tim Thayne:You betcha. So varsity, you know, there are millions of parents out there in our country, that are going through a lot of pain right now, because they've got a young adult, that is really struggling to become independent. And that that creates a lot of emotional anxiety and pain on the part of the parents. And of course, on the young adult, and I, I think about I don't know, when the the failure to launch movie came out. And it's kind of a funny video movie that depicted sort of this challenge. But there really is nothing funny about it in the real world. And when we're kind of going through it ourselves, right. So yeah, love your thoughts about what, what is going on today? And what's the pain? What's the pain that people are going through that? We're looking at probably in record numbers right now around this failure to launch?
Vashti Summerville:Yeah, well, first of all, you said millions and you are accurate. I did a little research and found some Pew Research Statistics. And as of July, there were 52% of young adults residing with one or both parents. And what was interesting about that statistic to me was, you know, we would expect that to be higher during a pandemic. But it was up from 47% in February, so it was still really, really high, prior to going into into the pandemic. So the number of living with parents, they think, as of July was about 26 point 6 million young adults.
Dr. Tim Thayne:So millions was not an exaggeration,
Vashti Summerville:exaggeration. And the growth was sharpest for young adults, ages 18 to 24. And I have a lot of theories, I don't know, they're just theories, things that I think about a lot. I think that Well, of course, with the pandemic, I think this is the most stalled age group, you know, everything's on hold, whether you were backpacking through Europe, or wanting to be in college, you know, it's everything is just been put on pause for them. I think that kids, young adults today can't see a path to a life like their parents have maybe as easily as some of us did. cost of housing is really high, you know, finding a job getting started out in a career, these are all really a lot more challenging, I think. And I think it's
Dr. Tim Thayne:almost like, I'm thinking of Varsity, it's almost like the prospect of becoming independent, and maybe achieving what their parents have have achieved is daunting more than ever before, because of the current circumstances you're talking about economically and otherwise. And I think the complexity of life, and what their parents, maybe if achieved, I also think and want your thoughts about the end, we'll probably get to this to the lack of sort of the gap between preparation and this really, really high goal that they might be looking at is bigger than than ever before. Do you agree with that?
Vashti Summerville:Yeah, I do agree with that. And I along those same lines, I wanted to say that in addition to sort of okay, seems unattainable, right, getting mine your own house one day, this career path. I think a lot of young adults have climate change anxiety, they they're really worried for their future. They see the political climate they see just the adults sort of misbehaving all around in a lot of ways. So it's really discouraging to them, they do not feel a sense of, of hope and optimism in many ways and
Dr. Tim Thayne:control, right? Because this is outside their control. I mean, how can they really affect the climate on their own? Or how can they affect the, the, the unrest in, in, in our society and so on? Yeah, that's, that's over the top of and kind of the context for all of these other maybe more, more proximal to their control issues. But but that just adds to it, right?
Vashti Summerville:Yeah, it does. And then that gap in sort of preparation, and, you know, this sort of what's in in parent's control, too, which I know, we're gonna get to a lot of that today. You know, I think that there, we, my generation of parents, and I'll speak for myself, I'll point the finger at myself first, I think I've made things too easy, in some ways, we've got kind of the social fabric is torn, and you have these really difficult conditions in the world. But in a lot of ways, my kids have had a very easy life, easier than than I had growing up. And I, you know, I think that we all want to make life better for our kids. And we have in some ways, we've inadvertently caused some of these, these issues. And, you know, I don't think I was great at teaching my own kids to sit in uncertainty or sit in discomfort. So I don't think they were as resilient as could have been, had I maybe had a parent coach, right, and maybe write some of this stuff that we teach. And so it's, you know, and I don't ever want parents to blame themselves, because I say, we only know what we know, when we know it. And, you know, we're always learning, but it's this line between, okay, how do you reinstate some hard limits to help launch them if they're a little delayed in their launch, while also maintaining a lot of empathy and curiosity and acknowledging to them that you do see that the world is hard, and that you do see that? It's that they can maybe feel hopelessness? So I balanced that with this more practical like training for, you know, these some of these soft and hard skills and then Holding, holding limits when maybe you haven't been doing that for quite a Right.
Dr. Tim Thayne:Right? And, you know, we're gonna get to this in a bit, I'm sure. But this, this question of how much failure are you able to watch, you know, in order to see them grow and change and how much discomfort or your loud loud going to be able to allow them to experience? You know, that's going to be interesting. As we as we go forward, and it gets really real for parents. It's theoretical until you have a young adult who you think is going to crash and burn. And that's the mentality that drives the fear that can drive some of our really poor parenting approach here is that fear of the future for our young adult. One of the things I wanted to share Bochy, it's, as I was thinking about doing this interview with you, you know, I can't help but think back to my generation, right? And I know young adults don't want to hear, hey, back when I grew up, you know, we, we had to do this, you guys, you know, it's easy nowadays. But there is something about the way that most of us were raised a generation ago, that built confidence. It was like a lot of experience that they aren't getting these days, you know, my daughter, she's 19 The other day, you know, I just come up with one story after another after another, I'm not trying to out do any of my kids and stories, by the way, hey, you got a story I can top that. I'm not really doing that. It's just that my life and I think many of us is lives back then. There was just a lot of real life kind of interaction going on with the real world, not virtual, not, you know, delivered to us through technology or anything else. And so there was like, daily experiences of being uncomfortable of working it out on our own, of doing all kinds of things and, and so it's almost mind boggling to my kids when I talk about what I was doing at their age, because they can't imagine it. Right. One thing happened to me when I was quite young, my dad had to try backhoes. I don't know what that is, but you can dig trenches with them and, and, and he had one of his boys, my older brother. He put him on one backhoe and down in a nice flat field in a in a canal. He was going to clean it out. And we were working for my dad Add is in high school. So he was doing that. And he put me up on a hill with a really steep side hill, that I had to go around the edge of that hill cleaning up this ditch. And so there was like this peril. That was right there. Like if I push this around the wrong direction, I was like, I could roll this whole thing off this hill, and tumble to the bottom. And, you know, piece of equipment, I could have gotten myself out. But that piece of equipment was worth, you know, 10s of 1000s of dollars to my dad at that point. And it was darn scary. I don't know if I'd have put my kid in that situation. And parents might say, Boy, that was kind of crazy of your parents to do that. But it wasn't like, that was the first thing I did, there was all this preparation. Before that, even though I was only 1617 years old, when this when this happened. There was all this other preparation that happened. It was real life. And I guess that's what I think about when we're thinking about the situations our kids are in, because they're going into a very complex world, that if they've not really engaged with the real world, dealing with working things out on their own, on a regular basis, it's going to be overwhelming. And so that's, that's the the dilemma we have as parents right now, we live in a world of ease, where comfort or discomfort and even boredom is almost something that we won't, we can't take we don't want our kids to have to deal with. And they don't want to deal with it. And so that's where we start this journey, right? In a world like that, where we have to develop these competencies.
Vashti Summerville:That's exactly right. And I you know, I have thought about the concept of bubble wrap, you know, and we can bubble wrap our kids, I was thinking, what's the right kind of bubble wrap, and the right kind of bubble wrap is wrapping your kids and your competence in their capability in their ability to solve their own problems. That's the right kind of bubble wrap. Right. And I think that I've sort of distilled this down, I feel like when parents have four modes that can kind of go into when, when they're their kid is experiencing discomfort or a big challenge or a stumble. And I say you go into the distractor, the denier the cheerleader, or the problem solver, and that neither of those none of those are a healthy way to to really teach resilience and teach your kids to move through discomfort and uncertainty.
Dr. Tim Thayne:What is the role? Yeah, what's the right role?
Vashti Summerville:I think it's really it's it's learning that emotions come and go, and we don't always have to attach a big story to them. And that, you know, the Dan Siegel, the psychiatrist who's written a lot of books, his his idea of name it to tame it. So first of all, can you develop an emotional vocabulary that's, that's beyond happy, mad and sad, you know, it's more nuanced, so that you can really dive, dive underneath and really kind of assess what's going on. And so teaching our kids bad, I'll use a tool a lot developed from the Yale Center for emotional intelligence called the mood meter. It's$1.99 app, super cool. I like it just really for the first screen that pops up with shades of different colors, you just kind of play around with clicking on a shade and it populates the square with different emotional words, right? So you kind of say, well, that doesn't quite fit. Let me move over here a little bit. So I like this idea of name it detainment like what are you let's really dig beneath the surface and see what's going on and then accept it and sit with it. Just it's here and how do you sit with it and just allow it to pass through without attaching too much story or meaning to it? And then I think the third step would be to welcome it and work with it and say, Okay, this is here. What's it here to teach me it's not all bad. All discomfort, all boredom. It's not all bad. These lead to some really great innovations in a person's life. And I think if we I wish someone had taught me this when my kids were much younger, right? Sit with them and do this process instead of cheerlead. Distract, Denyer problem solve, they're gonna be a lot stronger.
Dr. Tim Thayne:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm just sitting there thinking about what you're saying how helpful that would be to parents who are kind of doing that in parallel with their young adult, hopefully training them to have these internal coping skills to be able to name it to tame it, and so on. But if they could do it in parallel, they're less likely to jump in and do those those four unhealthy kinds of things right,
Vashti Summerville:you hit the nail on the head because the it's taming our own anxiety as parents it's, it's training yourself. have to be able to watch them stumble to not go upstairs and wake them up for a work shift 10 times pulling, trying to get them out of bed saying you know what, they're gonna miss their shift. And that's really painful, especially if you're a really organized person. It's not how you operate, it's painful, you almost have to leave the house and let that happen and let those natural consequences speak instead of staying in the cycle where you're continually waking them up for obligations. That's a cycle. I think a lot of parents started a long time ago when their kid was probably in Junior High High School, and it continues into the young adult years. And it's really uncomfortable. And that's a small failure, right? That's a small thing to sit back and watch. But it's, um, I you know, taming our own anxiety around that, because I think that's what leads to what you know, you've just called some parenting failures. Like, we think we're doing it out of love and support, but we're feeding the problem.
Dr. Tim Thayne:That's right. I remember that experience just now that really helped me. But I was going through a really challenging situation and a kind of a mentor of mine, instead of trying to solve it for me, or cheerlead me and tell me how great I was, and I was going to be able to do it. He just said, he just smiled at me said, Tim, I'm glad this is happening to you. That's great. And he really was he had a smile, genuine smile. He wasn't like, belittling it. But he saw the opportunity in the challenge that I was going through. So I wonder if parents can look at that and say, How can you shift from this anxiety and fear to being glad that they're going through this challenge? Yeah, have some thoughts and ideas on that boss? Do
Vashti Summerville:you I think step one is just facing your fears head on, and taking away some of the power that we give to our fears as parents, and that we get stuck in a cycle of catastrophizing, right? You've worked with a lot of families, you're a dad, I mean, it's really easy to allow yourself to catastrophize and be stuck in the what ifs if I don't do this, then this is going to happen. And if I don't do this for my kid, then this is going to happen. And so with that, and say, okay, so what if that happens? Is it really the worst thing, you know, and just kind of face those fears to take away some of that power that they can have over us? And, you know, and then influence some less than ideal parental decision making? That would be the first? Yeah, look at those things and say, Well, what if my kid got arrested? Is that really the worst thing? Maybe not?
Dr. Tim Thayne:You know, yeah. And if they're, if they're, you know, kind of starting to least engage in managing hard things in their life. You can imagine them building like these internal muscles, you know, and that's, like, you know, they're, they're getting more capable every passing day that they're doing this. And I think that's another thing we can we can think of, is just reframe it for ourselves. You know, this is good, this is really good for them.
Vashti Summerville:I agree with that. And I think that part of part of doing this is if you really step back, and you think that you know, the behaviors that you're engaging in as a parent to help keep your kid on track, if you really step back and say, You know what, this young adult is gonna go off the rails, it's never something that this current cycle would have prevented, right, say, the young adult is coming and going at all hours of the night, they're sleeping all day, maybe they're smoking weed or drinking, you're in a cycle of, you know, they're asking you for $20 here and there, and you keep doing that, you know, any kind of self harm, reckless behavior, this all could happen regardless of you, holding hard limits, or extinct caught in the cycle that you're in now, right? So you have to lose from changing it up because they're not moving forward. So you might as well face your fears really work at setting some lifegiving limits, hard, harder limits and sticking to him, right, set these boundaries and consequences, even though they're the kids 2122 Whatever. The at least you have a chance of changing that trajectory and have them moving forward in a productive way if you continue the accommodating waking them up for their work shift. Right and, and in allowing fears to influence your decisions. They're never gonna get traction.
Dr. Tim Thayne:You said something Vashti that I think is such a powerful reframe. You said, setting life giving limits. Yeah. And that to me is, is the same as I'm glad this is happening to you. You know, I'm glad that this is essentially you're saying you know, you're trying to give them life, you're giving them a real life, a competent life, a life of purpose, and, and where they can, they can move forward and achieve their potential. And so you have to kind of remember these limits that you're setting is life giving, not paying, producing. And I think that's an interesting reframe.
Vashti Summerville:They're not a punishment. And you know, I'm an educator, you know, this, I've taught a lot, I've done a lot of curriculum, development, and any teacher starts with, Okay, what's that and objective? And then how do you unpack it and in education terms, you scope and sequence it, you know, so you can get get from where they are to that end objective. And I think if we look at boundaries like that, that it's, it's a lot easier to hold them because you've you've taken your end game, right of launching an independent, capable, resilient, compassionate, young adult, right, that's your that's our end game. Parents will often say to me, I just want them to be happy. And I say, No, no, let's look at capability resilient, all these things. So that's your end game, and then unpack that and any boundary that you set that you can connect to that end objective, that's a boundary, that's a lifegiving boundary that's worth holding. And it's easier to hold your you're aligned as a parent, you do not feel any questioning, when you can connect it to that and goal, you're really solid on the inside. And therefore, it's more difficult for kids to find cracks, and, you know, get in there and manipulate you to change because you know, you know that it is connected to something really, really important that will serve them for life.
Dr. Tim Thayne:You know, I'm thinking back on numerous examples of parents, not allowing the person their child or young adult to be responsible for the mistakes they make, not even just like the lack of effort that they make, but really, you know, overt mistakes they make, let's say, for example, you know, they get in trouble with possession of, you know, some sub controlled substance, you know, that same parents go to the ends of the earth to try and keep them from experiencing real responsibility for that mistake. And so what happens in those examples is they, they teach them that there may not be consequences, that they, they don't help them connect the dots to taking responsibility. And, and, and growing in that, and so so because they don't have to experience that. Oftentimes, the mistakes they make, or the choices they make, they don't get to learn from the mistakes early on. So you get to this point where the mistakes or the lack of maybe follow through gets to be pretty big. So talk to me for a second Vashti about, you know, what can a parent do, if they're feeling like, if I don't step in right now, it will crash and burn. And that's kind of what they think of, or they're gonna go to jail, or they'll die, or it's going to crash and burn, they're never going to, you know, be successful in their life. Isn't that kind of where parents go, when it comes to this question of holding a boundary or not, like, if I hold this boundary require them to take responsibility, they will, you know, crash and burn.
Vashti Summerville:And they might write, but they they might crash and burn, or they will most likely crash and burn eventually, if you continue to wrap them in this wrong kind of bubble wrap in a bigger in a bigger way. It's going to happen, it's inevitable, right? And so, you know, and of course, we go to the worst, you know, some kind of accident or assault, you know, something that causes death, I mean, a really scary thing, and especially if you're dealing with kids with mental health conditions, that's terrifying. But it's, it's part of the journey of saying, Well, we really ultimately can't control any of this. Right. And, you know, it's so hopefully, it's not these really traumatic crashes and burns, but some of these smaller ones that are going to change, change the trajectory in a way that maybe to avoid some of the higher, higher risk sorts of things. And I think that if parents can just sit in their own anxiety and allow you know, if it's let's say it is possession of a substance, let the law let the consequences of the law do the speaking. You don't have to do that. Let the law do the speaking you keep the relationship you know, intact as best you can and stay connected to your kid and yeah, that's a bummer that happened and you know, but let them law. Administer the consequence and and see how things change. Right?
Dr. Tim Thayne:Right. You Exactly, yeah, this is really pretty straightforward, right? It's hard to do because of fear, and, and all of that, but it's really quite straightforward. And it's it's how I think society used to be kind of geared to do that a little better than it is today. And that's why we've got this really kind of another epidemic besides the COVID, we have this Failure to Launch situation.
Vashti Summerville:Yeah, and I want to back up, because if you think about I'm sure you have listeners with kids that are, you know, younger tweens or teens, maybe even younger, listening, and I think that, you know, the depression and anxiety epidemic is really lack of connection, right? And, but connection, I think, has a lot of layers, there's connection to yourself, there's connection to your family connection to your community and connection to a sense of purpose. And so, in that sense of purpose is also really intertwined with a feeling capable, right, yeah, you have these younger kids, what are you doing for them that they could be doing for themselves? Do you have a 15 year old that is developmentally capable of filling out their own medical forms, when you're in a doctor's office, little steps like that earlier on, you know, that, you know, that just that leads to a greater sense of capability, less rescuing on the parents part, because they, the kid can handle a lot of that. So just kind of the I don't know, I like to throw that out and think Thinking Thinking back, and I think that that helps with them with mental wellness, right?
Dr. Tim Thayne:I love that early intervention, you know, let's think way ahead. We're actually in the, in the, let's say, career as a parent to, to create independent, productive kids. And, and it starts early. And the more I guess, that we are doing things that they could do for themselves, the more we're actually caretaking instead of caring. If we're caring and we're thoughtful about what kind of experience we're creating, we're gonna let them experience life and challenges and fail and skin, their knee and, and do all of that along the way. So I really love the fact you're, you're sort of saying, Yeah, this is all happening. But let's talk to the others who have kids, they're younger, that they can be very intentional, you know, from here out that will give them what they really look they're looking for for their their child.
Vashti Summerville:Yeah, I think I love that I love anything we can do to work upstream, right? Yes, yes. People avoid problems down down the river. You know, when we did the the coach's conference, the advanced and I did this talk, we I did kind of go through some steps. If you do have that really stuck young adult, do you think it would be helpful to
Dr. Tim Thayne:you? Let's do that. Yes. Let's, I think that'd be great. Okay,
Vashti Summerville:so I think your leverage as a parent is financial. Right? You have a child that's over the age of 18. out of high school, presumably, right. And, you know, AI is capable, right? There's, we're not talking about kids with some pretty severe illness or diagnosis just stuck kids. They're just stuck. So you do have financial leverage, and, you know, things like paying for their phone, all these things are privileges, we don't have to continue to do that forever. These are hard lines. And so I think what you have to first create is a plan a plan A and a plan B, right? These are the two conditions that our financial support is tied to, you know, plan, plan a might be okay, putting some some structures in place, in your day, getting a job, you know, any kind of vocational academic training, engaging with a therapist, if you need to know, whatever you think needs to be put together to kind of start to move that kid forward. That might be your plan A, these things with specific timelines, these things need to start come falling into place, we'll get you the supports that you need for this, but this is the timeline. Or if you know, they're just really, really stuck, Plan B might be a higher level of care, some kind of higher level of mental health care. And those are the two conditions that your financial support is tied to because they're life giving, right? Both of those that planning and that plan B both have potential to move this kid forward.
Dr. Tim Thayne:Yeah, and I might add right to varsity that, you know, that financial support, like you said, it's time limited, right? There's a clear plan with specific steps, almost like a sequence for a launch shuttle launch. You know, you might have let's say the countdown from 10 Nine, eight down to the launch, and it might take several months. It's but there's a series of things, you're putting in place real specific objectives, tied to the financial support, and some accountability and follow through, or you go back to plan a or plan B. So I think kind of that launch sequences is helpful for me. And it reminds me, you know, back in the day, I was mentioning to before the podcast, we were working with a lot of young adults, and we didn't have a name for our young adult program. And so we were brainstorming what that should be an ingest. I said, let's call it the catapult. And, and I thought it was hilarious. And, and it's hilarious unless you're a parent with fear, right? And, and so, but, but really, maybe the shuttle is a better example where there's this, this series of steps, countdown, there's real steps, you're trying to help, you know, get all systems go. And you've thought through it, and it's intentional, and you're, you're building those competencies along the way.
Vashti Summerville:I love that analogy of the launch sequence. And because I do think the kids need clarity, they need, you know, just really clearly lined out with these specific timelines, all this. But the reality is, they're a young adult, and we aren't allowed to make a lot of decisions for them, we can't just put them in a treatment program. We can't there's, there's so many things, but you can cut off that financial support. And that would be that plan C. That's really, really, really hard for parents to do. But it's basically you're saying to the young adult, okay, you're not choosing Plan A or plan B. So Plan C is really to move out on your own. It's sort of forced independence by a date, a certain date. Parents will say things to me like, Well, I'm afraid they're not going to eat and the kids will use that too, right? Because they know, oh, my, I'm gonna tell my parents I have an email the fear button. Yeah, they know that fear about and so I'll guide parents will show them how to get state food benefits. Give them the address of the nearest Food Bank, I'll say you can offer to store their belongings go get Rubbermaid containers and say we're going to pack up everything, you can store it in the garage, you are welcome for Sunday dinner every week. And we'll pay for your phone still provided you keep in touch with us so that we know that you're safe. Little things like that. So you're not cutting them off. But you're saying we mean this week. And you kind of let them go flail, you're calling their bluff a little bit. And then they might say, Okay, nevermind, I'll take Plan A
Dr. Tim Thayne:Yeah, you know, we've seen this a lot at Homeward Bound, where I think we've even got it to a point where we can pretty much predict how long they will be out on their own before they get that phone call back to the parents, if the parents can hold the line. And and stay with it, we can kind of predict, oh, this is going to be a seven day on his own and then back. Right, pretty interesting if the parents do their part,
Vashti Summerville:if they do their part. And you know, I wrote down a couple sentences I like like most coaches, you know, to work with language, how do you craft language. So if you had to go to that plan, see that sort of kicking them out really a phrase, like, we know that it is challenging starting out as a young adult, we will happily support you in ways that will move you towards a healthy, capable and independent life. Or you know, something like we have presented you with ideas for a path forward and an offer of support that you chose not to use. So now it's your turn. So once you take some initiative, and you come up with some options, we're here to listen and to consider resuming support. So it's, you know, really hard to do. And I tell parents, once you've done that, and you K they've taken Plan C and the kids gone, then you have it's a head game for you to stick with it. And you have to live your life and flip the script, right. We love that phrase, flip the script. So you have to model finding joy, even when your kids going through this difficult time, their their mood doesn't have to be your mood, right? That kind of thing. And I encourage parents when they're starting to drift into fear and anxiety, to say things little mantras like the cycle that we were caught in has ended. Patterns are being forced to change. New learning is happening. This was the most loving thing I could do for my child and for myself, because come on, we all want to be empty nesters one day. You don't want to do this forever.
Dr. Tim Thayne:That's right. And especially if you're not ready to do some of those things, read a few of those stories I read on the internet recently about a 92 year old mother who had a 69 year old son or maybe maybe 70 still living with her and she was the one mowing the lawn.
Vashti Summerville:That gives me so much Anxiety,
Dr. Tim Thayne:that if that doesn't motivate you to do this now, I don't know what will so. So throw that out there to everybody. Is there any other little tips or ideas that you have to kind of finish up here?
Vashti Summerville:No, I think that's pretty much all of them. Just be brave, be bold and know that the, you know, everything that you want for your kid is on the other side of that river of discomfort, you know, you've got to it really is and so just get real comfortable with being uncomfortable.
Dr. Tim Thayne:Lastly, this has been awesome. I love your wording, those those mantras that you put out there, and all the other tips really helpful. I know our parents are gonna love it. You know, parents, I just want to share with you this is definitely one of those things that that we have to do. And sometimes we need a little bit of help. And that's definitely something we can do at home are bound to help you actually put this launch plan together to coach you through the the emotions you're going to have as you hold the boundaries that you need to hold. And just like fascia is done today with some really practical ways of doing it and these mantras and ways to help you work through the emotions because that is where we achieve those goals when we can actually consistently follow these true principles. So obviously, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for your time today and amazing ideas.
Vashti Summerville:Well, Tim, thanks for inviting me and thanks for all the great work you do in the world. I know that there's a lot of families that really benefit from all the help that Homeward Bound to offer. So thank you for everything you do.
Dr. Tim Thayne:Well, it's really fun to highlight one of our great coaches today. So thank you. Thanks, Tim. Alright, see ya. Bye