Interracial Relationship Green Flags with Ankita Roy

The listeners of BWWPS shared their green flags and Ankita  joins me to break down all the things you guys submitted and more!
You find the "discovering your values" activity here.
Listen to Ankita's previous episode here.
Follow Ankita on IG @Ankick_it 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Hi everyone, welcome back to. But what Will People Say? I'm your host, disha Mazepa, and this is a South Asian Interracial Relationship and Lifestyle podcast. Welcome back for another episode. Hi everyone, welcome back.

Speaker 1: 0:22

So this week's episode is the Interracial Relationship's Green Flags episode, and I wanted to say a big thank you to all of you who contributed answers so that we can make this episode possible. If you follow me on Instagram, I had left a question about what you guys thought green flags were when you were dating someone outside the culture, and so many of you had so much to say, so I tried my best to summarize it to the overarching themes that you all thought were the most important. So thank you so much if you took the time to respond. I tried to include as much of it as I could, but the person who came up with the idea for this episode is my guest today, ankita. She is a familiar voice around here. She was on a few oh, probably like a year ago now talking about her interfaith relationship. She is Hindu, her husband is Muslim and there's a whole episode about that that you can search and find, but she's here this week and she's the one who came up with the idea for it, so you all can thank her. She's here to talk about all of the things with me, and the one thing we always kept coming back to in this episode was, like all of these green flags we bring up are irrelevant if you are not aligned in your values with someone, because that is the most important part. Everything else is kind of secondary. We always say, like, find someone who has the same values as you, and say it over and over again, but, like, most people can't actually name their values beyond like oh, like family is important to me, like cool, family is important to everybody, what's actually specifically something you value and a pillar you want to build your life around.

Speaker 1: 2:14

And very conveniently, recently my therapist gave me an activity to quite literally list out and sort out what is a very important value in my life versus like not important, important, kind of important, and so I'm going to leave the link to that in the show notes. It's about 100 flashcards that you have to sort through and categorize and it gives you a really like cut and dry, clear cut list of like what is most important to you. So I'm going to leave it down there. It's free. It takes like maybe half an hour to do. I highly recommend you guys go through it to really figure out, like having a conversation with yourself about what is important to you.

Speaker 1: 2:58

And what I did is I took that list and I literally wrote it down in my like notebook and then I highlighted like my top five, because I think I had like 20 of them that landed in very important. But then even like concentrating that down to like these five pillars that I think should always be a part of my life and whoever I end up with I mean, obviously I'm married. It's a little different now, but we always talk about values and I thought that was really helpful exercise. So it is linked to down in the show notes. But without further ado, here's Ankita. Hi everybody, we are here with a familiar voice. I feel like the recent like surge of the podcast has been lots of familiar voices, so you probably remember her. Her name is Ankita, but she lives in a different state now, so remind everybody who you are.

Speaker 2: 4:05

Hello everyone. Yeah, I was on the podcast probably two years ago at this point and we are here with Cullen in from a different state I'm in California, but for a little bit of context, my name is Ankita. I'm a physical therapist and work with South Asian women on their health and fitness. I am personally in an interfaith relationship with my husband. We just celebrated our two year marriage anniversary. So when I was going through you know the motions of figuring out how we were going to find a path forward, I found your podcast, so it's very cool to see that kind of full circle moment here today.

Speaker 1: 4:43

And we're so happy to have you back. For those of you who might be new here, ankita, you're Hindu and your husband is Muslim, correct? Okay, I do remember all of that, which I felt like was a nice balance to have this conversation about green flags and interracial and interfaith relationships, so I can help bring in kind of the multicultural side in terms of different races and you can help us out with more of the religious aspects, and I feel like we're a good balance of as many points of view as we can give for this conversation. Absolutely, and so many of you guys on Instagram left responses for what you think green flags are and we sort of compiled all of those responses from listeners to help create this episode and we're going to kind of go through them and give you a little bit of a summary of what everyone else had to say. But for you, ankita, let's start with you. What made you feel like there are green flags in your relationship when it came to deciding, like, is this the right person?

Speaker 2: 5:56

Good question. So I think on the last podcast that I was on with you, we were talking about how we balance the Hindu and Muslim differences and, guys, I've been literally stopped. Every single Hindu Muslim couple there was like Shahrukh Khan or Hassan Munaaj, like anyone and everyone who would talk about it. But I think, when I was taking a look at my husband and why I wanted to take the next step with him, there's a lot of things that we don't talk about, like, yes, you have to be on the same page, yes, you have to get along, yes, you have to communicate, but when you're going into this interfaith dilemma of how are you going to help your parents, how are you going to figure out your marriage, how are you going to figure out the next step?

Speaker 2: 6:41

Some of the green flags that I saw in him were like a few different things. So three things in particular. Number one was we were on the same page about our personal religious views and we were really honest about that too. Like I knew deep down that I'm more culturally like culturally important. It's more culturally important for me to celebrate the Hindu holidays, but not as spiritually, and same thing for a ways. So that was good, that we were aligned on the same page. Not to say, you and your partner that are listening have to be on the same page as well, but you have to be honest that, like I'm okay if a ways isn't spiritually connected to what Hindu values I respect. Okay, so that's the first one. Did you feel the same thing with your partner?

Speaker 1: 7:34

Yeah, I think we always kind of bring it back to on this show is values. As long as your values are aligned and you make it like have clear communication about what your expectations are in terms of like building a life together, it's really where I think, when it comes to like interfaith and interracial relationships, that like these become almost like lifestyle choices. Yes, how you want to raise your kids, like religion plays a big role in that and stuff like that, where, for example, me and Michael like he was raised Catholic but he's pretty much an atheist, whereas I'm a little bit more spiritual, but culturally, hinduism is more, like you said, it's the holidays, it's the culture that it brings into our home and like being open to creating our own version of that Instead of like fighting over like who gets to be more dominant culturally in a relationship.

Speaker 2: 8:42

Yes, I love that, but that dominant word you have to be on the same page about what values, like you just said, and if there's going to be one religion that's more dominant, that both of you are on the same page about that in your lifestyle.

Speaker 1: 9:02

Definitely and like you know a lot of people, especially with me being married to a white guy, they'll say like, oh well, like they, I feel like sometimes South Asians feel like they have to almost like fight harder to hold on to their culture. Versus like when you're raised in the US at least, like it's a mostly like Judeo Christian society, right, everyone has offer Christmas and there's holidays decor that goes up every year and like you go to school and you learn about all of these different holidays, that kind of like semi by diffusion you already know about. Versus like Michael by default doesn't know everything about like Indian culture and Hinduism. But I think, being mindful of like, we're not gonna try to like erase parts of him in order to make room for me.

Speaker 1: 9:54

Just because maybe, depending on where you live, south Asian culture might not be as present.

Speaker 2: 10:00

Yes, yes, you can't be butting heads about which culture is more important. They have to coexist together.

Speaker 1: 10:08

Yeah. So I think, when it comes to most people's green flags that they submitted, almost all of them were culture related having a partner who's open to learning about your language, your food, your culture, participating in holidays, respecting your beliefs, even if maybe they don't understand them or agree with them and I think those are pretty standard green flags in most relationships. I would say yes, you had three things that really stood out. So what are some?

Speaker 2: 10:40

of them. Yeah, so that was the first one, which I know sounds like common sense, but just want to reiterate that you really have to be honest with yourself and your partner that you're okay with those differences and how you celebrate and what that looks like. So the second one that I have is are they willing to stand up for you? Because we all know like if you're listening to this podcast we all know there's struggles with being interfaith or in just a different type of relationship, and I found that when we were planning our wedding which was super stressful, which we could do a whole nother podcast about you have to be willing to trust that your partner can fight battles independently with their family.

Speaker 2: 11:27

So, for example, I did not want to do the like the Shahada during our Nica. I wanted to respect their religion, but it didn't feel right for me to just do the conversion just to make them happy, when I fully didn't honor that religion at the time. So during that discussion I can just go to Oasis parents Oasis my husband and tell them that they had to hear that from Oasis himself, because they're already going to be defensive about this, but Oasis, luckily, was on the same side as me and was willing to stand up for me, which was so, so helpful for my mental health space, but also for us to have productive conversations between our families itself.

Speaker 1: 12:16

Definitely and that's again like very much something you want in any healthy relationship or like, you have to be the person who intervenes when it's your family and they have to be the one who intervenes when it's their family. And having that sense of like, who you are and who you want to be, because, like you said, you weren't willing to convert just for the sake of it, just to make his parents happy or for a show, because it would be quote unquote easier. Because sometimes you'll hear that we're like oh, it's just easier if you just like do it.

Speaker 1: 12:51

But you know it can be really disrespectful to someone's culture to do that and be able to say that and saying like hey, like this is what I am and I'm not willing to change that, just to like appease people.

Speaker 2: 13:07

Yes, 100%, and I think with like the second green flag of is your partner willing to stand up for you? That's something we all want to believe. The best of the person that we love has, but really being honest with yourself, being honest with them that they are willing to work as a team together, of you and your partner versus your families, because it's so. It's an uphill battle.

Speaker 1: 13:33

Otherwise, Absolutely Like I always say, it's kind of like you and your person versus everybody else and, like you, wedding planning was a very long, arduous that I don't want to ever go through again. Yeah, that's really. I feel it like when the cultural differences start to stand out, because you and your partner talked about your values, but that doesn't change the values of the parents, and weddings very much become what the parents have envisioned for their child and sometimes you're kind of like trying to balance everyone else's expectations and it can start to feel like is this about them, is this about us? You know, who are we trying to make happy here?

Speaker 2: 14:19

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:20

And so I totally get that, because, even like they're also generally, wedding ceremonies tend to have an aspect of religion in them, and people get very defensive about their own religion and what they think is right or wrong, and I know lots of brown parents love talking about their religion like it is a law and not just like a belief you decide to hold.

Speaker 2: 14:45

Yes.

Speaker 1: 14:46

And honestly.

Speaker 2: 14:47

Honestly, sometimes we don't understand that until you get to that phase of wedding planning and you're like, oh, I didn't know you really did want this or really did want that from your parents. And so when we were going through the process of wedding planning, it was helpful to have, yes, open discussions and all that, but I couldn't go to my in-laws and be like, hey, I don't think we should do this because I'm not. I'm not in a position to do that. They're going to listen to their son or daughter first, before this other person.

Speaker 1: 15:20

Yeah, pretty much same and same thing with me, like going up to my parents, be like we're not doing that actually, because I don't want to do that.

Speaker 1: 15:26

I understand you think it's important and there are certain you know, consolidations I guess I made or, you know, gave up to make them happy. I won't pretend like I was great at it, but there were things that like if it really mattered to Michael that we do or don't do something like to fight for that to happen for him, because it's also his day Especially, we're like we had a Hindu wedding and so like it's really hard not to take over the situation when you have a four day long Indian wedding. Yeah, Explaining that to your white in-laws is difficult.

Speaker 2: 16:06

Yes.

Speaker 1: 16:07

Yes.

Speaker 2: 16:07

And I say with like all these green flags, it's going to be so subjective to each person's situation, like I've been to plenty of interracial weddings where the other side is like, yeah, do whatever you want, we really don't care. And other times they're like no, we're going to do this and you're going to do that, and it's like World War two. So, with all these like green flags that I'm talking about, they are specific, but also take it with a grain of salt, because everyone's situation is so different.

Speaker 1: 16:38

Definitely. And what was your third point that you wanted to?

Speaker 2: 16:43

So this one's going to be like, obviously on Katha, like that makes sense, but being 1001% on the same page about all the things that you should have assessed by now, like your values, your life goals, your financial goals, but really making sure that you are not hiding any part of you or anything that you want to discuss with that person before you move it to the next step, because I've been married for two years now. I know that's not a long time, but there's a lot that I've learned afterwards and we are very aligned on the same values and principles. But just wanted to reiterate as a most important role above all is just being 1001% on the same page as your partner.

Speaker 1: 17:32

Pretty much. I think it's like a marriage in general is a bit of a team sport and the more on the same page you are, just the easier it is, and I think that is almost a newer concept for a lot of people, Like sometimes you know people talk about their relationships and like the struggles they might be having and if it's problems between the two people, my immediate thought is like it shouldn't be that hard.

Speaker 1: 17:59

It shouldn't be this hard, this early on Because, like I feel, like our parents generation, no matter their culture, there was this narrative of marriage being a ball and chain and losing your freedom and like you know there's almost like a negative sense of like long term commitment, whereas I think really millennials and Gen Z have redefined marriage as more of a partnership and that can be difficult to figure out how you're, if you're with the right person or where the green flags are, when not all of us grew up in a household with a lot of green flags, definitely. But yeah, what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: 18:39

Yeah, agreed, I think the like role of women in a marriage has definitely, I would say, improved in my opinion. Like we are not just at home making chapatis, we bring money to the table, we do all the responsibilities, we have a lot more equality in a sense, and what that means in terms of being on the same page is that your partner also has to be okay with that. So, making sure that, like you said, marriage has in the past maybe been more of a ball and chain, but now it's more of like a. We're both coming to the table to play, we're both pitching in our cards, we're both going to figure out a way to do this together.

Speaker 1: 19:20

Yeah, pretty much. And in knowing what you want as much as, like you know, you and I are going to sit here and list all of the green flags, everyone told us.

Speaker 1: 19:29

I think if you don't know what you want, it's going to be a lot harder no matter what, and the decisions about what you want should be something where you know about yourself and then can stand by what it is, instead of ask like what we think doesn't matter as much as what you think about what you want. So one thing I always said like I didn't want to marry someone who's in laws couldn't love me like their own child, because I knew my parents were going to give me a bit of a hard time.

Speaker 1: 19:58

I didn't know how it was going to go and I have a bit of a rocky relationship with them and I didn't want that same lack of support to also be on the other half of my relationship, which can sound like a double standard to many people. But for me it was important that I was with someone whose parents could love me like their own, accept me into their family and support us, even though I know the same might not always get reciprocated by my parents. And luckily it worked out. But it's still like like I live with my in-laws now and like we have an amazing relationship. And some people would say, like Disha, that's a double standard. If your parents can't do that, why should they? And I'm like because that's what I want. It's unpopular, but it's what I want and I got it, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:45

And I don't think you have to be apologetic about wanting that. If you're clear from that from the start, like hey, the XYZ thing, they're really important to me and this is the bar that the expectations are at.

Speaker 1: 20:59

Exactly and, like you said, not apologizing for it, because if you start looking for things based on what other people tell you, you won't really know if that's what you are not.

Speaker 1: 21:09

And so being very clear on what you want is important, I think, in the other person, as long as they respect you and they are willing to go to bat with you no matter what life throws at you.

Speaker 1: 21:23

Because I think when you're dating it can be really easy to feel like you're in a silo. It's just you and this person and like maybe there's some family members and some friends, but like life hasn't truly happened yet, like in that moment the hardest thing might be, like my partner is a secret. I don't know how to tell my parents and this is the hardest thing you two have gone through together. But like the reality is, like life will happen. It will be much more complicated than that. And suddenly I've been married for that's going to be five years in December. Like that telling my parents and who accepted who is so small compared to the thing, and in the last five years, whether it's with family members or with friends or just with your partner, like what happens when life is real and those I personally think are almost more important green flags to look out for. It's like who are they when things get tough? Then?

Speaker 2: 22:20

even.

Speaker 2: 22:20

I know the cool parts? Yeah, I like that. Like who are they when times get a time and and things are tough, and how do they show up for you? Absolutely. So I think it was kind of like, yes, we've talked about the green flags for your other person, but if we take a step back, it's like, okay, what are the green flags for you? Like, what do you want your partner to have? Like you mentioned a good relationship with your in-laws.

Speaker 2: 22:47

For me, I really wanted I had a whole list to actually, but one of the things on there was like they are able to communicate, clearly they have a good relationship with their family and also I can go to a party and leave their side and they would be okay, like they would be able to hold their stick, hold their ground. And I know that might sound like so nuanced and little, but it has come up in our life now when we are trying to, you know, network or make new friends. Now that we've moved, I am 100% confident that a ways can do that, because I had that defined as something of a value that I wanted for my partner from myself, like before I'd even met always. So that was like the first year, and then you can do the tier of you and your partner making sure you're a team and then you can think about all the other stuff that life's going to throw at you, including your parents and in-laws and people, and all the people and what they say yes, exactly.

Speaker 1: 23:51

The being able to leave someone's side at a party is one of those very small things that means a whole lot because I have the same expectation out and you know I was very young at the time but I was like I don't want to have to babysit someone, like I want someone who can hold their own. Even in like my culture. That can be a little bit overwhelming when you're in a room with 30 people and all of my cousins and aunts and uncles and everyone is screaming because inside voices don't exist. They're not be like completely overwhelmed. Like yes, of course, the first few times I'm going to hold your hand and I'm going to make sure you're okay, I'm not going to abandon them. But you know when you go to a party or you go to a wedding that like once they've kind of acclimated that you know that they can kind of hold their own and talk to someone in your family or talk to your cousins or whoever, and be okay.

Speaker 2: 24:52

But I know, like for us that's the same. If you're like a listener and you're like, oh, I don't even feel comfortable at a party by myself, like that is okay, like everyone has a different list of requirements and it's going to be what matters to you at the end of the day.

Speaker 1: 25:09

Yes, exactly. And when it comes to even the culture parts, a lot of people who submitted answers they're very culture specific. It was like they learn to make your food or they learn your language or they're willing to participate in holidays like Diwali, like those are very specific to that person and what they value. Because you could be in an interracial relationship and maybe you don't value the language as much, maybe you don't think it's important for your partner to speak your language. But then I know couples who it's really important to the one person that their partner speak the language and their partner has gone above and beyond to learn that language and do that because it's important to their significant other. But I can't tell you what's important to you. You gotta figure that out for yourself.

Speaker 2: 25:58

That's on you Absolutely Exactly.

Speaker 1: 26:01

Like I'm more of a food person, so I like love that I have a partner who is willing to try all the foods and can try to make Indian food and, you know, also giving credit where they're just trying their best. Yes, like yesterday it's so it's September and Trader Joe's has all their fall stuff out. Yeah, and normally I grocery shop. But this week Michael grocery shop and he came home and he was so proud of himself. He was like look what I found at Trader Joe's, and they were the pumpkin samosas. And I was like these aren't really that good. But I was like I appreciate the effort. I wasn't going to burst his bubble.

Speaker 2: 26:45

I love that you're so excited about finding that. That is so heartwarming. But, yes, agreed, I think those taste like garbage and I love Trader Joe's and I'm sad about this product.

Speaker 1: 26:55

And I do. I don't mind their frozen Indian food like I'll buy it. I don't care. Like the nights I don't want to cook, I am going to microwave the hell out of that Tikka Masala.

Speaker 2: 27:03

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:04

This samosas just aren't that good, they're not it. They're not it.

Speaker 2: 27:09

I appreciate you, honey, I appreciate the effort and I think that, like, like what Michael did and kind of what some of your listeners submitted as things that they want, go back to that root of, like, your partner being curious and open to your culture more than they can speak the language and they can make your cultural foods, like. The root of that is that they care and they want to be part of your culture, yeah, and that they're open to it and respectful of it.

Speaker 1: 27:38

Because and I always like to remind people that it is a two way street Like, for example, I go to church for Easter with Michael's family but, like I'm not a practicing Catholic, I'm not going to take communion. I'm just not going to do that because it would be really disrespectful, right, like I'm still considering myself Hindu and I'm very open to spending time at church with his family, but there is like a line of understanding his culture and what would be considered respectful versus disrespectful and being understanding of that. I think the respect is probably the biggest factor where, like, your partner comes in and can, like, try to understand your culture without judgment.

Speaker 1: 28:21

Because I think sometimes we all, if you grew up in like the 90s in America, like there's a little part of us that was embarrassed of being brown, even if for a minute you know, and so there's this kind of like deep seated like insecurity with being brown for some people, and when you have a partner who asks questions or isn't sure about something that your culture does, like we can get really defensive of it. We're like no, no, like it's not like that and because, like, from the outside in it might look like whatever they think, and just being understanding of like we just have to have an open conversation and as long as this person is being respectful, like that's okay, you can ask questions. You don't learn without asking questions. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:04

Yeah, I agree, it's like our knee jerk reaction to defend our culture and feel like we need to explain everything and be like no, of course, this is why we do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But really I think that's more a personal reflection on us, like going back to that first realm of understanding what you need, like understanding what's also important to you, because, let's say, you're both in like a Hindu and Muslim family, but you're both not very religious, not very spiritual. It doesn't really matter what they do right, and you just have to be honest about that.

Speaker 1: 29:35

And on the same page Pretty much, and I think that was a big response to people.

Speaker 1: 29:41

It was like not equating the negative aspects of South Asian culture to you, because there's lots of things, as much as I love celebrating South Asian culture, there's lots of things in our culture that I could live without and being able to admit that to my partner without him judging me for as if it's a reflection of me. I mean, here we've done an episode on the parts of our culture we're going to throw out. I love that, and so you know like sometimes, because we feel like we're being judged for our culture, it can be a really vulnerable position to be able to admit to your partner Like there are parts of your culture that you know you really do disagree with but aren't a direct reflection of who you are as a person or that your parents might believe. Right, some of our parents still believe a lot of things that we're like, listen, like my dad's probably going to say something rude and I know it's offensive. I just need you to like not take it as like a personal thing.

Speaker 2: 30:50

It's just how he is.

Speaker 1: 30:52

Exactly Like not to like justify the bad behavior, but it's like it's just life Like if you're going to deal with people that are different than you like.

Speaker 2: 31:00

Sometimes you just got to like roll with the punches, Mm hmm, and choose your battles right, like we're not excusing poor behavior or not taking accountability for your family's actions, but at the same time, there are just certain things in brown culture that are hard to explain If they're hard to have like an open and honest conversation without getting defensive because they might have been things that have been ingrained from childhood and, like you said, in the nineties, growing up in America, being brown was not cool, like we were still casted as working at 7-Eleven and owning subways. Now we have like all this dope representation, but I think for a lot of us in our age group we're still processing that pride in our culture.

Speaker 1: 31:46

Exactly, and I think, going along with that, the other response that people had dropped in was respecting the impact of culture on our family dynamics and our expectations. For me, like having a partner who isn't brown and making him understand like they view marriage as two families coming together, that everyone in the family has a role, or like the way our culture views women and their role in a family isn't like how he grew up being raised of like the role of a woman or a wife in a home and that like that's just our culture and, yeah, some of it is questionable, but some of it also impacts kind of the way we might view our own family dynamics.

Speaker 1: 32:32

Like once you have kids and like how you might want that to look. So I think communication is a big. It's probably the biggest part of all relationships, but especially when there's lots of cultures involved.

Speaker 2: 32:45

Yeah, and just having like those open conversations about all these things, like if you are planning to have kids, what does that look like for your roles? Does one person want to take a step back from their career? Are you getting help, like how annoying to have those conversations, let's say, six months into dating someone, but they're important to have if you're thinking about the next step.

Speaker 1: 33:08

Definitely. And the other thing, at least in this part of the podcasting world that comes up, is being disowned. And if you're not brown you probably can't fathom the idea of someone being disowned for who they date. I know my husband couldn't. He was like that's barbaric. Why would anyone do that to their kid over who they're dating? Like that's not. Like my mom would never. I would have to like murder someone for her to even consider Never talking to me again. And she's like you are not doing that. And like you know, before I told my parents I had to have that conversation with him, like listen, like there is a very small chance, but still a chance, that like I tell them and my parents decided never talk to me again. And that again like vulnerable conversations where you want a partner who one doesn't judge you for it but more importantly, understands like the consequences of that and like still being supportive.

Speaker 2: 34:09

Yeah, it's a huge risk essentially to date someone that you know your parents might not approve of right away and that's scary, like that is, and it's sad that, like we have, you've had guests I know I've listened to podcasts where you've had guests that did get disowned and they had to get restraining orders against their families and all this heavy stuff.

Speaker 1: 34:35

And it can put a lot of strain on a relationship and you know, like I said before, about finding out like what happens when times get tough with you and your partner.

Speaker 1: 34:45

Like that's like one of those things where, like, suddenly you don't bring any family support to the table and that can be really important for a successful relationship. And then, like what happens? Like can your part or even your partner not taking it personally, that like because I think most of us did have to go through some level of convincing our parents that we're with the right person- and having to tell your partner like listen, my parents would prefer me not be with you.

Speaker 1: 35:15

Like they'll deal with it and they're tolerating it after some convincing, but like their first choice is not you. And like can you imagine going into a room and realizing like those people would prefer it not be you? Like that would suck.

Speaker 2: 35:29

Yeah, I would take that personally. I have taken that personally in the past.

Speaker 1: 35:34

Yeah, and I think that's one of those things that it's a huge green flag If they can be understanding of like it's going to be a process. It will take some time and trying our best not to take it personally yes.

Speaker 2: 35:50

Yes, it goes back to like what we started with, like having the same values, being on the same team and just being 100% willing to stand up for your team.

Speaker 1: 36:04

Yep, because that's the thing right. Like you, only if you guys aren't on the same page, everything else we're saying here like it's kind of irrelevant. Yeah, 100%, that's like the first check mark. Yeah, exactly Like, be on the same page, want this to succeed for the two of you, and then like everything else, like you can kind of take it together, you can take whatever comes, you can take whatever differences you might have. Like other things people brought up Food related was respecting each other's dietary restrictions.

Speaker 1: 36:37

Lord knows, explaining to white people what vegetarian means is like impossible, because vegetarian, depending on your culture, can mean so many different things. Like do you eat eggs? Do you not eat eggs? Like do you like consider broth vegetarian or not? Like all of these things, why don't you eat pork? Why don't you eat pork? Like all these differences.

Speaker 2: 37:02

There's like an A through Z list of what being vegetarian means in brown culture.

Speaker 1: 37:07

Yeah, just yesterday someone brought over like a. It was like a vegetable soup, but it was made with beef broth. And oh, like we don't eat beef, and she was like yeah, but it's just the broth, there's no beef in it. We're like no, no, no, the broth.

Speaker 2: 37:22

Yeah, the broth, yeah, yeah. So like talking about those things together and like, okay, if your partner that says full no broth of any animal product, are you okay with also being no broth of any animal product because it matters? And I think at one point in my life, like in my early dating life, in my early twenties, it was like, oh, I'm just dating this person because I like them and they're fine and we have a good time together. But then if you're thinking about the next step, it's like, okay, let's talk about like your finances, let's talk about your dietary preferences, let's talk about if you're cool with celebrating the Wally. But it's important. I know all of us know it's important to talk about that stuff, but we don't realize how important it is until those times get tested.

Speaker 1: 38:09

Exactly, and I think that's where I at least I personally am a big proponent of living together, even though I know brown parents are not about it because, like I don't know, I feel like a lot of people who got arranged marriages, like dietary restrictions, were like this huge thing, oh, I'll only marry someone else who isn't vegetarian or is vegetarian or is Jane or whatever. And when you're in a multicultural relationship, like Mike and I don't always make the same food, and it actually has nothing to do with our dietary restrictions. It's that he's a personal trainer who's constantly like cutting weight, adding weight, counting his math rules.

Speaker 1: 38:49

Whereas I'm like, listen, I'm on my period, get me some penne vodka yesterday, and he's not going to eat a bowl of pasta Like he would just like, rather die, I guess.

Speaker 2: 38:58

But like you know, so we have missing out.

Speaker 1: 39:03

And so, like we don't even have dietary differences, like I kind of eat whatever I want and so does he, but like even just living in a house where, like he meal preps literally every single meal he eats, versus like I'm meal prep my lunch so I don't have to think about it, and then being okay with, like you, you're going to have your little protein waffle for dinner and I'm going to make whatever I'm going to make, and it not being this huge disruptive thing.

Speaker 1: 39:29

But I know like South Asians because it's like this huge part of our culture can sometimes feel like oh, it'll never work if this person has a different lifestyle than I do, and like if you live together, you can kind of work through that.

Speaker 2: 39:43

Yeah, you can understand those differences. I think it's a spectrum right. Like you can't be so far on one side that like you're super, super picky and you can't imagine that one person would not have a home cooked meal or do this or do that, and that like shuts them from the rest of your life. That's like one end. The other end is like you're cool with everything but you're not actually cool with everything, Like you're not honest with yourself about what you want. So you have to be like in the balance in between those two, where you know exactly what you want.

Speaker 2: 40:17

Like Disha, if it was important for you to have home cooked meals every Wednesday together for dinner by candlelight, and that's like one of your core, what you see your future life being, then that would have been pretty difficult if you didn't communicate that in the past. And for me I think that looks like. You know I'm okay with beef being grilled next to my turkey burger, but for some people that's not okay. So, like it sounds, it sounds such a granular thing to think about, but those things that are super important to you are worth being picky. The other stuff, like the super, super picky stuff that you're discounting people for, you can work through some of those?

Speaker 1: 41:01

Yeah, exactly, and just like being understanding of it. Like it did take me a little while to get adjusted to Michael's habits when it especially when it comes to food, because, like what it came down to was, he is always training for something like some competition, some race, some ultramarathon, whatever, and like our lifestyles, sometimes it would take a minute to adjust to it, especially because, depending on what he's training for, it will all change. Like right now, this kid is out the door by 4am with a 65 pound backpack on going for an eight mile walk before he goes to work and I'm like if you wake me up at 4am, I'll always mention it.

Speaker 1: 41:46

So, it's like I have come to terms with learning to live with that person, but I don't know that everyone would deal with that, you know, yeah, yeah. So I think those granular things are what are almost kind of where the little sticks start to come in.

Speaker 1: 42:06

I'm like that you don't even think about asking, and that's where I think living together if you can, is helpful, especially when you have different cultures and being open to what you're not willing to compromise on, that conversation organically happens when you move in with someone. So, like for me, it was like not wearing shoes in the house and that was not negotiable, like that was the rule.

Speaker 2: 42:31

That should be the rule universally. But yes, yeah, exactly, that is so wrongly.

Speaker 1: 42:36

That's how strongly. I feel, about it is that it is. I don't know why anyone wears shoes in the house.

Speaker 2: 42:42

But for me it was like never, ever, ever.

Speaker 1: 42:47

And he has come to love that and understand your carpet says well probably. Yes, exactly, and now he's like a big proponent of it. He's like I don't know why anyone ever wore shoes in the house and I'm like thank you, thank you for understanding me, you're a changed man now.

Speaker 2: 43:03

Yeah, I think everybody. I don't know if you remember this game when we were kids, but it was like a little Jenga block and you would. It wasn't Jenga, but you could also use Jenga. You put these sticks in and there was balls on top and you would pull out a stick and you would lose the game if all the balls fell to the bottom. So I think that's like how you should also think about your relationship with someone, just in general, is you can pull out some sticks Like I don't really care what a ways does for his like morning routine, or I don't care what he does for his dietary preferences as much, but I do care, like how he shows up at a party or what his financial goals are, because those are like those core sticks that if they're not in place, those balls are going to come crumbling down for me.

Speaker 1: 43:53

Exactly, and that's almost. It's almost like you're building that little pile of sticks, but those three or four pillars that are the real backbone of that tower need to be in place and then everything else.

Speaker 1: 44:04

You can kind of like finagle to fit around those and that really helps. I think finances is a big one Green flags in general. I know that, having some part. I think the way South Asians think about money is so different than other people and I heard it on this podcast. They were like brown people make a dollar and look to spend 20 cents. White people make a dollar and look to spend $2 because they live like. The American financial system is basically built on debt, like credit cards, loans, mortgages, so like they're kind of raised in that realm and that's how they kind of finance and manage money and they think about money, whereas like South Asians like especially if you're a girl who wasn't taught anything about finances besides like don't spend any money, put all your money in your savings account never touch it and that's a conversation for another day.

Speaker 1: 45:03

But you know, finding the middle ground and like having that like nitty gritty discussion of like money, as uncomfortable as it is, can be like a real maker break, because how people look at money and manage it can put a lot of stress on a relationship if you're not on the same page about it.

Speaker 2: 45:26

And marriage. I think I heard this from somewhere, but 100% agree that marriage is the biggest financial decision you will ever make, and that's so true, 100%. Like your best, your biggest move is not like the raise that you're getting at work or the loans that you're taking out. It's who you're marrying and what their mindset, their loans, all that stuff is coming with. So that's yeah, yeah, all across the board, regardless of where you are in your relationship.

Speaker 1: 45:55

we're talking about definitely, and even there's another study where, like, the most important decision you make is your partner, like who you decide to marry, not just for financial outcomes, but like your personal outcomes in life, like your health outcomes, your happiness outcomes, how well you do at work, how successful you are, whether that's in your business or your career almost all of it one of the biggest impacts is who you decide to marry Because, like you know, like, are they going to be the partner that supports you if you get promoted?

Speaker 1: 46:33

Or are you with someone who gets jealous of your success and wants to bring you down? Are you with someone who can make smart financial decisions with you? Or are you with someone who's like draining everything you've ever had? Or, you know, do you have the support from your partner so that you can pursue things or take risks in life and know that they'll still be there and they all play a part? And I think that's where I think I felt like the biggest flaw in the way South Asians look at relationships is that South Asians are raised to look at marriage as transactional of like what do you bring to the table?

Speaker 1: 47:17

What do I bring to the table? And not understanding that, like the macro level of like life happens and not everyone's going to bring the same thing to the table every time. So, like deciding to marry someone based on, like, their career or how many degrees they have, what's going to happen if they lose their job? Are you going to like not be able to tolerate them being unemployed for a little while and I feel like I hear a lot of Salvation people talk about relationships in a way that feels like this is just a transaction and like we don't have to treat these people like people.

Speaker 1: 47:52

Sometimes, I don't know about you, but I feel like I've heard it and I'm like, oh boy.

Speaker 2: 47:57

Well, I feel like that Indian Matchmaker show on Netflix like really put that on a pedestal. Yeah, like this is what this person must have. You know, like I don't. I definitely don't think all South Asian culture is like this. Obviously it's Netflix. We're going to do it for production value, but I think a lot of the things that we look for, just based off of like dating app profile or a bio data or whatever it might be, is the stuff like their degrees, their income, their family structure. But I think what we're both talking about today are things that are not going to show up on paper but show up organically with that person, like how are they going to deal with conflict? How are they going to deal with your promotion? How are they going to deal with all of that stuff?

Speaker 1: 48:43

Yeah, because I, you know, I think about it because I, in 2020, during COVID, basically lost my job and but I was so burnt out and my mental health was in the complete shitter and I basically didn't have a real job for six months. And it and at no point in those six months did Michael, ever put the pressure on me to like, get it together, go get a job. You can't not work for this long. Like I lost my job and his first response was one it's going to be fine. Like we're fine, financially, emotionally, everything's fine.

Speaker 1: 49:19

But he was like just take some time off. He was like take a month, do nothing, read a book, and like that was such a relief that, like it was like just do what's best for you, take some time, sit around and paint some pictures and read some books, and just like he's like it'll be fine, I'll take care of it, we're not worried. And when you figure out what your next steps are, I'll be here. And my next steps turned into starting a business and, you know, rolling on with this podcast that isn't free to run and still cost money and even though I wasn't working, it wasn't like you should stop doing this podcast.

Speaker 1: 49:58

Like, it was like just keep doing it. It's important to you, why would you not do it? Or like signing up for a painting class and him being like you should sign up for it, it will make you happy. Not because I go, this is leading you to your next job or this is a course for your next gig that you're going to get. It's like do it because it made you happy, we'll figure it out. And I was like in my head and I'm not saying that all South Asian people are like this, but I can see a lot of like brown people. I know where it would immediately be like you need to get a job, like that's priority number one and anything else is like a waste of time and money, and like you need to focus on getting a job. And so many people I see that tie their self worth to these things that like if I'm not working and I'm not bringing this amount of money to the table, then this person will somehow love me less.

Speaker 2: 50:50

Mm-hmm. We determine our value. It's common for us to determine our value based off our paycheck.

Speaker 1: 50:57

Yeah, and so I think remembering not to treat your relationship as transactional, and seeing people as people and the values they have and what they add to your life are probably the biggest green flags you can look for, and everything else.

Speaker 2: 51:13

I just love how Michael like supported you with your mental health during all of that and didn't go into full panic mode or judge you, because 2020 was hard for a lot of us and a lot of people lost their jobs and we were all stressed from this global pandemic. So the fact that, like you, don't have to come home and fight a battle with your partner just thought like mental relief that brings is so important.

Speaker 1: 51:40

Yeah, exactly, and, like you know, now it's been a few years, we're out on the other side and, you know, for a while things were uncertain. But being with someone who was supportive and patient and willing to be there no matter what, like that was probably the biggest green flag, like knowing that, like, no matter what happens, like he's going to make sure, not that we're okay, but like in the sense that, like he'll always be here.

Speaker 1: 52:08

We're on the same team and you're allowed to make a mistake and fall down and start over, and it doesn't change what the two of you have Like. I feel like that was a big like reassuring factor.

Speaker 2: 52:23

Yeah, and I think, at the end of the day, like your life partner is going to be the person you spend the most amount of time with, through and through over years and years and years. So that person should be like the person that is your best friend, like you can't wait to hang out with them, you can talk through tough things without feeling judged, you can have similar values and principles because, at the end of the day, they're like an extension of you and your best friend.

Speaker 1: 52:53

Yeah, that's always been, I think, the main piece of advice I give people, no matter who your partner is or where they're from, like if you can say that they're your best friend, you're good. Like that's. I think that's my biggest green flag. Like, if you can call them your best friend and you can do nothing with them, and you can do everything with them, you're in the right place.

Speaker 2: 53:16

Yes, yes, 100% agree with that.

Speaker 1: 53:21

Yes, I think I feel like that is a good place to wrap this up. We've been going for so long and I didn't even realize how long we've been chatting.

Speaker 2: 53:30

Is there anything?

Speaker 1: 53:31

else you want to add?

Speaker 2: 53:33

I think, like what we just said, make sure your partner is your best friend, but before you even get to that side, like, make sure you're your own best friend and you know what you want out of all of this.

Speaker 1: 53:45

Very good points all around. If people wanted to find you online, where could they find you?

Speaker 2: 53:51

So I'm on Instagram at and kick it with an underscore in between. You can always reach out on there and then if you ever have any emails, I'll have you leave that in your notes or show bio. Yes, all the links down All the links. All the links will be down below.

Speaker 1: 54:08

as always, you guys know where to find them. Thank you so much for doing this. It's been so much fun.

Speaker 2: 54:13

Of course. Thanks for having me on the show again. Always lovely chatting.

Speaker 1: 54:22

Thanks so much for tuning in guys. Make sure if you enjoyed this episode, you leave us a review on iTunes. You can find the show on all major streaming platforms. You can find me on Instagram at Disha dot Mazeppa. You can shop my Etsy shop Disha Mazeppa designs. Find out everything you want to know about this show at Disha Mazeppa dot com. And if you or someone you know would like to be a guest, you can email BWPS Podcast at gmailcom. And I'll see you guys next time. Bye, this podcast is hosted and produced by Disha Mazeppa. The music for the show was created by Crackswell.