When We Walk Away with Faaizah

Faaizah is a 32 year old British Indian who is Muslim and her husband is Welsh/Atheist. We chat finding peace, happiness, and acceptance after losing contact with your family. We also get into planning a wedding without your family being involved and protecting your own mental peace. 
TW: disownment 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Hi everyone, welcome back to, but what Will People Say? I'm your host, deesha Mazzuppa, and this is a South Asian Insuritial Relationship and Lifestyle podcast. Welcome back for another episode. First things first today. But what Will People Say? I'm going to be talking about the show launch on November 4th. I have a toddler now. We have a 4 year old on our hands.

Speaker 1: 0:34

Thank you so much for all of the support over the last 4 years, for the messages, tuning in, sharing all of that good stuff. If you guys didn't listen, I would not be here. So thanks for tuning in guys. Do me a favor if you aren't already subscribed to the show, make sure you subscribe, because that way you get notifications when episodes are out, because I don't always remember to post things online and tell people, but if you're subscribed, your phone will tell you automatically. Also, if you've been enjoying the show, share the show with someone that you think would enjoy it.

Speaker 1: 1:11

I feel like we are almost at 200 episodes at this point. There's a story in there that could resonate with someone who could really use some words of encouragement or just to feel less alone. I know so many of you have messaged me over the years that when you find the show that the biggest thing that gets repeated over and over and over again is that it's relatable and that they don't feel alone. Even though every story here is different, everyone's experience is unique to themselves. Here is a level of just feeling like you're not the only one, and I think it feels a little bit like a weight lifted off your shoulders. So if you know someone who could benefit from hearing the show, make sure you let them know about it.

Speaker 1: 1:57

In other news, it's been a while since I shamelessly plugged my Etsy shop, but it is holiday season. If you don't know, I run a greeting card shop online. You can find it on Etsy. It's called Dishon Mazeppa Designs and while it is November 1st, christmas will be here before you know it, and shipping time only gets slower the longer you wait. Also, things sell out and then people get sad. So I'm giving you a heads up now. If you want some really offensively funny greeting cards, check out Dishon Mazeppa Designs on Etsy and right now, through the end of the year, if you buy five cards, you get your sixth card for free with code FESTIV6. That's FESTIV6, like the number six, not the word. The link for the shop is always in the show notes. But yeah, if you want a really funny greeting card, check it out. I am working on getting shipping to Canada. It's a little bit of a process right now, so right now it's US only, but hopefully within the next few weeks Canada will also be available. And thanks so much if you've ever supported the shop. Most of the money goes to also support this show, so really appreciate it, guys.

Speaker 1: 3:09

All right, let's get to my guest today. Her name is Faiza. She lives in England and she is a British Indian. She was raised Muslim and her partner is Welsh an atheist trigger warning. We do get into disownment and what that whole process has been like. She isn't in touch with her family and it's been quite a while, and so we do get into that and what led up to that point. She recently got married and planned a wedding on her own, so we talk about that a little bit as well. So just a heads up, a little bit of a trigger warning.

Speaker 1: 3:43

If you're not in the mental space to handle something like that, this might not be the episode for you, but if you are, I think there's so much to be gained from the conversation we had today because it touches on so many things, including our very complicated relationships with our parents. So, without further ado, here's Faiza. Hi, everybody, we're back and we're here with Faiza, who is joining us from across the pond in the UK. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for having me. I'm so happy you're here. Tell us a little bit about who you are.

Speaker 2: 4:33

Okay, so my name's Faiza. I live currently in North Wales in the UK, so I think for a lot of people now they might be familiar with a little town called Wrexham, where Rob Delaney and Ryan Reynolds have recently bought a football club. I'm just about 20 minutes from there, so a little claim to fame for the little town that I live in. I've been living here for the past three years. I'm 32. I moved out of my parents' house about seven years ago, met my partner, who is Welsh, and we decided to buy a house here recently. And, yeah, this is where our life is, and that's funny. I love it.

Speaker 1: 5:24

It sounds like a cozy life to have, and I watch way too much Ted Lasso. So in my head I'm like, oh, like you just hang out with the football players. I wish it was like that. Probably not.

Speaker 2: 5:37

But in my head.

Speaker 1: 5:39

I'm like she lives the Ted Lasso life, but you moved out. How old were you when you moved out?

Speaker 2: 5:49

So I was 24 when I moved out. So, yeah, I graduated from university at 21. And then I moved back in with my parents, and that was because I wasn't really given much of a choice in the matter. So as soon as I was on the way to graduating, I kind of had an order from my parents, essentially to move back home, because I lived away for three years whilst I was studying. I only lived about an hour and a half from home, but the rules were in place to say, come back home as soon as I'd graduated. And then I worked back at home for about two years, two to three years, and then I managed to. It's a long story which I might get into later on, but I managed to convince my parents that they should let me move out, but career purposes purely and also just for my own independence.

Speaker 1: 6:48

So how did that convincing go?

Speaker 2: 6:51

It was a long struggle, so when I lived at home I had. It wasn't too long after graduating that I managed to secure a job and I work in digital marketing now. So I work mainly in content marketing, copyrighting that kind of stuff, and that's really where my career has taken me. And it was great. For the first couple of years I worked for a small business where I was able to learn everything I needed to know about the job I do today. But then that company folded and I essentially moved on to different roles, but they were more like contracting roles and it felt very limited where I grew up to find those opportunities and the natural thing to do was to move further afield where there were a lot more opportunities and I was able to do a lot more in my career field.

Speaker 2: 7:43

But my parents were just completely resistant to the idea of me not living with them my brothers so I've got two older brothers. They had a huge influence on anything that my parents, any decision that they made about my life. So my oldest brother in particular who ironically has lived in London since he graduated was able to kind of convince my parents and say well, you know, we don't think it's the right thing for Pfizer to live on her own. She's a woman. Well, he probably wouldn't even call me a woman, he just called me a little girl or whatever he sees me as, and that had a huge bearing on whether my parents would allow me or not.

Speaker 2: 8:27

But then I did multiple rounds of interviews and I just started applying for jobs elsewhere. I just thought I'm going to give it a go if I see an opportunity, I'm not going to stifle myself and I'll deal with whatever consequences I've got to face. So I just started applying for jobs and then I found a job where, well, I secured a job which was about an hour away from where my parents and where I grew up and where I was living at the time. And because I had the job, because I secured it, it was a lot easier to say well, I'm not going to give up this opportunity.

Speaker 2: 9:07

My mum was really reluctant and, surprisingly, my dad was really just keen for me to move and get my career going or keep it moving. So I was quite surprised by that that the support came from my dad rather than my mum. But then I think, when she understood what the opportunity was, the fact that it was a natural next step for me to continue progressing my career. She kind of came round to it, but my brother and his wife at the time were still very much in my mum and dad's ears, kind of saying this isn't the right idea. You shouldn't be letting her do this. You don't know what she's going to get up to when she lives away from home, who's she going to be living with and who's she going to be influenced by. So it was very toxic that environment, because anytime I had aspirations or goals or ambitions of my own, it felt very much like my brother my oldest brother in particular was there to kind of stamp it down and just make sure it didn't happen.

Speaker 1: 10:11

But you've got to be frustrating.

Speaker 2: 10:14

Oh, completely, yeah, I mean. So just to kind of give a bit of a background. So I grew up in an Indian Muslim community and I guess our family was considered quite liberal when you compared us to how a lot of the other families in that community lived, and I grew up with a lot of other South Asian Muslim women and girls who didn't really have the same kind of freedoms that I had, so they weren't allowed to go out with their friends and it was very strict basically. And I grew up, obviously, with two brothers, two older brothers, and the double standards. Now, now that I've taken a step away from my family, it's just so transparent how differently they were treated in comparison to me.

Speaker 2: 11:06

So, as an example, both my brothers were able to study away from home. One of them was able to study abroad as soon as they graduated. They had the freedom to apply for jobs wherever they wanted. They were able to move wherever they wanted. They both lived in London, which is obviously so much fuller of opportunities than any areas that I was living in, which is in more Northern England at the time, and it just felt throughout life like everything was just a lot easier for them. They didn't have any kind of obstacles that I've had to kind of come across when it came to trying to just do the simplest thing like work essentially after university you wouldn't really expect much resistance when it comes to your career and making that flourish and getting to where you want to be in that respect. But everything was just a bit more of a challenge in my house for me than it was in comparison to my brothers.

Speaker 1: 12:06

Yeah, and that is something that I think a lot of women in our culture struggle with.

Speaker 1: 12:16

Because you start to notice it, because you talk about now that I'm out of it. Looking back, I can see the world was my brother's oyster and for me it was whatever a five mile radius, and it's like oh, you should have a career, but you should also live at home and you should also only work outside of your house. And then when you become the person who can see it, then you become the bad guy, because you see the brown girls who just they, refuse to see it. They're like no, my parents aren't like that, my parents gave me everything, blah, blah, blah, blah. But then they refuse to see when another girl in your community is treated differently, that she's actually having opportunities taken away from her, she's being stifled in her success and held back. There's this weird disconnect I noticed that happens where the girls who don't want to see it because it didn't happen to them. They want nothing to do with the girls on the other side who are trying to claw their way out of it because it is happening to them.

Speaker 2: 13:23

I completely agree with that. I've actually kind of come across this on so many different occasions with different people from my community. So, as I kind of get into my story, my experience and everything that I've been through, something that I've always had in the back of my mind is make sure you're not talking down the Muslim community. We get a bad rep as it is and we have done for a long time now. Don't talk down the South Asian community. We want to show that we're really progressive and things are changing. We don't want to kind of fall into giving that narrative of oh, you know, we're all in arranged marriages and you know we've, we all have to stay at home and do the housework and we can't go out, and there's, you know, there's all these stereotypes about us that I know that a lot of us have worked so hard to try to undo. So I've been really conscious of that when, you know, talking about what I've been through with people who aren't necessarily from my community or my culture or my religion, and I find that that what you mentioned is exactly that.

Speaker 2: 14:38

So I think there is a huge number of people in the community who did have, you know, the right, the right freedoms and you know the the rights to do whatever they wanted.

Speaker 2: 14:48

As they were growing up within within limits, you know, they maybe had just a few more opportunities to go out and explore what it is that they wanted to explore without having to put up as much of a fight with their parents.

Speaker 2: 15:03

And it's great for those people and I'm really happy that you know you see those examples around, because it does show you that the dial is turning. But, like you said, those people can sometimes be quite protective of our community and when they're doing that, they kind of silence in the people who have had a much harder struggle to get to where they want to be and or may not necessarily have ever been able to get to where they want to be, you know they might still be living a life that is completely written out and prescripted by their parents, and I find that is really difficult at times. It's that balance between I want to talk honestly about what I've experienced, but I don't want to play into this narrative where you know it makes us, it demonizes us almost. But then there's also you've got to be able to share your reality, haven't you? Because I don't think anything can change otherwise.

Speaker 1: 15:56

Exactly, and it's the, it's this almost like internal gaslighting that happens and then someone like you or someone like me starts to feel very isolated from our own communities. So then, when you see people taking a step away from it or out of it, we're the bad guy, oh completely yeah, right.

Speaker 1: 16:17

Like, because it's not just the parents and the older generation that, like they're having this tug of war. There's people our own age who, like you, said, like I'm so happy you had parents that were supportive and loving and did things for you and didn't hold you back, but that doesn't mean you get to like invalidate what's happening to me and I found that happened a lot or, like you said, the other group where they just did what their parents were told. They've never looked up to ask questions and they may they may or may not be happy with that choice, but they made their choice and the fact that you're making a different one is enough for them to gaslight you as well.

Speaker 2: 16:56

Yeah, completely, yeah, yeah. So for me, growing up in the community that I grew up in, I always felt like a bit of an outsider. So I always felt like I didn't quite fit in with the, you know, the South Asian Muslim girls that I went to school with. There was always something that our family kind of sat just outside of the area where you know majority of that community lived and I was always seen as the white girl and you know, I mean I think this is quite a common story for a lot of us, unfortunately.

Speaker 2: 17:35

But yeah, I think a lot of my friends were majority white or from different backgrounds, not necessarily South Asian, not necessarily Muslim, and that always put me like as an outsider wherever I was, because even when I was with my non South Asian, non Muslim friends, I was always different in that respect as well. So there's always this, this feeling where I just didn't know where I fit in. I knew I felt more comfortable with my non South Asian friends because I felt less judged by them Because of the decisions and the choices or the way I wanted to live. Even back then when I was in secondary high school, like it was very different. I always just felt different. So it is really interesting when you kind of grow up and you see all these different perspectives from the same community and you know, like you said this, internal guys like you, and it is very right. You can see it more and more the older you get and the more you start challenging what's been put in front of you.

Speaker 1: 18:40

Yeah, and that's the thing. So this experience I've noticed because I'm like why, why is this just really common thread between all of my guests that we feel like the outsider, we get called white washed or not Indian enough. But then we also have friends that are outside of the South Asian community. Right, we have friends from all different backgrounds. And one thing I think happens when you there's those kids you know that grew up in the South Asian community. They only had brown friends, they went to school with a bunch of brown people and what happens is they build themselves an echo chamber where everyone is saying the same thing and you never have to question it.

Speaker 1: 19:25

But when you have both bubbles you have the South Asian bubble, you have your friend group that is a mishmash of other people. When you're in the other bubble, everyone is having different perspectives and different ideas and usually you're in a space where you can ask questions about each other's backgrounds and cultures and say, hey, that sounds a little wrong, that sounds a little not sure if that's the way to do it. Or like, maybe say, oh, maybe don't worry about what other people think and just do what you have to do or focus on being happy. Now you have to do mental gymnastics to piece together those two halves of the two bubbles you're in. And now you become the person who can, from the outside, look in on that South Asian bubble. And suddenly you see it and you can't unsee it once you see it Like the gaslighting, or the women who can kind of tear each other down, or the men who are very sort of patriarchal or very threatened by other women's success or whatever.

Speaker 1: 20:31

Like all the good and also all of the bad. 100%, yeah, and that's a really tough place to be because then you feel really uncomfortable, pushing back into that space and feeling fully comfortable because you can't unsee it.

Speaker 2: 20:49

Oh, completely. I mean for me growing up, because majority of my friends weren't from the same culture and same religion. I was constantly drawing comparisons in my head, like, subconsciously, I'd go to my friend's house and we'd all be sitting around with their parents and their parents would be having a drink and it would just be a very relaxed atmosphere, and I would then reflect on the fact that I would never have any of my friends come to my house because, I mean, some of it was me as well and I think it was, you know, oh, my mum's cooking a curry and I don't want it to smell or something like that. You know, it sounds really bad and I hate that. I ever felt that way or, you know, had those types of negative thoughts about my culture and our food, because our food is the best really.

Speaker 2: 21:42

But there was a lot that I did growing up that made me kind of, I guess, just see things more transparently in terms of how maybe my mum was treated by my dad.

Speaker 2: 21:54

I don't think he was particularly respectful of her in the way that maybe my non Muslim, non Indian friends dad was with her mum and there was all these different things that I was starting to spot and it just started to make me feel more and more isolated and just, I just never felt fully Indian when I was growing up and never felt like I fully fit in with the girls around me in school who were from the same community or the same religion.

Speaker 2: 22:28

And then, the older I got and the more that my friendship groups started to broaden, say when I went to university, that's when, you know, things really did kind of become fully transparent for me because I was away from home as well and I was able to kind of look at things from a further distance and kind of see that it's really not that great and there's a lot of people who've lived very sheltered lives and, you know, whilst you know, maybe that is something that suits you, I don't think it's necessarily healthy and I just, yeah, it's difficult to kind of talk about it without coming across judgy.

Speaker 1: 23:14

I mean, I own that title around here, that no shame in my game.

Speaker 2: 23:18

Yeah, yeah, I think it's finding the people that kind of understand it as well and who understand your community, because we're not alone. I know there's a big, huge group of us, obviously, who feel the same way and have made similar choices in life which go against everything that you know maybe majority of the people in their community stand for. But yeah, I think that was the biggest thing for me was moving away, moving to university and then obviously moving out after university. That's when I really did take a step back and start to see, like, the things that I'd experienced growing up and the relationships I'd had with my brothers and all of that. It just wasn't healthy.

Speaker 1: 24:02

Yeah, and going back to your story, you did eventually move out and then you met your now husband. So tell us kind of where that story leads, because eventually you end up losing touch with your family. So bring us through that.

Speaker 2: 24:19

Yeah, sure. So I moved to a town called Chester, so it's not too far from where I live now, but it was a little city where I was working at the time and through I lived in a house share because I didn't really know anybody. When I moved there and I got to know the girl that I was living with and we became really good friends and then one night we decided to go out. I've always been very relaxed about drinking and going out and all of that like again another reason why maybe I didn't quite fit in where I was from, so we were out and through her I met my partner well, my now husband. So from there kind of our relationship started to develop and I was really reluctant to kind of let things go anywhere because from historical relationships and all my previous boyfriends not also being Muslim or from the same culture, I knew how they ended. Those relationships always ended because they couldn't convert or I didn't want them to convert, and that was always the condition from my parents. I can remember from as young as 14, 15, I remember my parents saying you can marry anyone you want as long as they're Muslim. So I felt like that statement in itself is a huge contradiction, but whatever. So I then I was quite reluctant to let my relationship develop with my partner at the time and it just kind of it turned into that. I think we were meant to meet each other. I don't believe in soulmates or anything like that. I just it's just not something I have ever understood. But I just feel like we really connected and it just wasn't somebody I wanted to kind of let go of and I know he felt the same about me. But I knew that soon enough I'd have to have that conversation with my family because I was I think I was 25 at the time when I met him and neither of us was in a place where we wanted to kind of mess around, despite the fact we were 25. It was. You know, we knew that whatever relationship we got into next, we both wanted it to be a serious, long term thing.

Speaker 2: 26:45

But I was having this internal conflict about whether you know it is even worth me raising it with my family, raising it with my parents, and I really wanted to do it in the right way and I've heard a lot of people on who've been previously on your podcast say how do you bring this up with your parents when you've been told all your life you're not allowed to date and they're going to pick your partner for you or they're going to, they're going to be a part of that process. And so it was a real internal turmoil of, well, how am I going to have this conversation with them? And at the time, mine and my mum's relationship was, funnily enough, the best it has ever been, and we've always conflicted with each other. We just we just clash as people. But when I moved out, our relationship really did strengthen and she was ringing me, you know, regularly to see how I was getting on. But it always went back to the conversation of marriage and she was like you know, Are you ready? Shall we start setting you up with people? And we'd had conversations around. You know, what would you do if I did come home with somebody who wasn't a Muslim? And she essentially said, well, we'd, we'd work on converting them. That's what we do. We just make them a Muslim. And I was like I don't think it's as simple as that.

Speaker 2: 28:06

But I'd had these conversations with my partner at the time as well and just said you know, you need to understand this. You can't be with me long time unless you do convert. And for him and where he's from the town that he's from, there's no Muslims there. There's no huge community. He'd never really come across people from a South Asian background or Muslim community before not not so many anyway. So all of this was very new to him. But he was taking it seriously, he was researching, reading about it and he said you know, if this is what it takes to be with you, then this is what I want to do, but I want to do it right and I don't want to just convert for the sake of it. I want to know what I'm converting to. So we got, we had more and more conversations about when and how I would tell my parents, because he was really keen for me to tell them about us.

Speaker 2: 29:01

But eventually what happened was my brother confronted me about the relationship and he'd said he'd seen something on social media or his wife had seen something on my social media. Not that I was being dead explicit about our relationship or anything, because that's just not what you do, but he'd, he'd basically confronted me and said you know, we think that you're dating someone. Do you want to tell me about it? And I just thought this is the time to just be really honest about this and tell him exactly what's going on. I felt like an adult at the time and I wanted to be an adult about it in the way that I told him. So I said this is a serious relationship, we are both serious about each other. We've been together at that point it was three months or something ridiculous, so it's very early stages of a relationship, but we knew anyway and I just said I really want to tell mum and dad, but I want to do it in my own time and I want to do it the right way.

Speaker 2: 30:00

That was met with just complete just, it was just complete rejection. He was like mum and dad are never going to accept this. I can't believe you ever thought they would. It was very negative and though I'd been so open and honest with him, he was just, yeah, trying to give me a reality check, essentially. And then what happened was a month later, my parents just turned up at my door of where I lived in my house share unannounced one Tuesday night. They came barging in and basically confronted me about the relationship, said that they'd heard from my brothers. They couldn't believe what I was doing. They felt that I was destroying my life, destroying their life. All of the stuff that you tend to hear in these situations are kind of unfolded there in my house. Share.

Speaker 1: 31:01

Yeah, that's. That is like a incredibly normalized disrespecting of boundaries that happens in our culture Because I guarantee you almost everyone listening has at least had that happen once, whether that was about who they were dating or whatever it was where when a parent feels like you've done something they don't approve of, that, they can just barge in on your life and just start berating you, sometimes in public or when other people are around. It is not only incredibly embarrassing and mortifying, but it's also just like what are you doing? Like this isn't normal, you can't just you can't do that. And when it's happening to you, like you don't have time to think about that, you're just like, oh my God, what the fuck's going on.

Speaker 1: 31:52

So, yeah, I just I don't know how brown parents just seem to think that's like I feel like they've watched like one too many Bollywood movies of like this theatrical reaction to something and I'm like that's not normal, like I don't know why you think that you can do that and, like you said, like you felt like an adult because you were and one wanted to handle it like an adult. And it's like how dare you have autonomy over your life? How dare you think you can do this on your terms, yeah, and it's like because I'm an adult Exactly my mom.

Speaker 2: 32:28

Actually, in that conversation she was like why are you being so stupid? And I was like how is it stupid to meet someone that I want to spend my future with? And they just couldn't understand it. So when they started to ask me about the religion side of things because that was really all that they were concerned about and the fact that my partner wasn't a Muslim and I did tell them you know, he is actually looking into it right now and he's taking it quite seriously. He does want to convert. He just needs to do it in his own time. And they just couldn't understand that either. So my dad basically said you know, if he wanted to be a Muslim, he'd be a Muslim by now, wouldn't he? And you know why does he need time to do that? He should just convert.

Speaker 2: 33:17

And it was just, honestly, the most surreal experience still to this date of my life them barging in, them confronting me in the way that they did and then I thought the only solution is for them to actually meet him and see that he's a real human being. He's just. He's not just some person that they can mold into whatever they want. So it was literally a couple of days after that, you know, when I told my partner about what had happened, he was really proactive, very pragmatic, very relaxed, very calm about the whole situation and I thought, am I just taking him into like the lion's den in this situation? And there was a lot of guilt with that. There was a lot of me feeling really bad and thinking, well, why have I even allowed this to happen? And it was something that had really considered, unlike previous relationships where I went into it kind of blindly, not knowing what the what the outcome would be with this. It was really considered. I was very reluctant to let anything develop, but then, even still the outcome was feeling really negative and I just kind of started to envisage it all ending. So he met my parents. My mum turned up with books on Islam, she turned up with prayer beads, she turned up with, you know, a religious heart, a prayer mat, everything. She turned up with a starter kit on how to be Muslim, essentially. And that was the first thing she presented to my partner at the time.

Speaker 2: 34:57

And I remember the initial conversation we were about, I think, at least a good 10, 15 minutes into them, initially meeting each other, having a conversation and at no point had they asked him what he does for a living. And you know what his family are like, whether he has any siblings, like nothing personal, nothing about him. All of the conversation was just centered around when are you going to convert? What do you think of Islam? What kind of Muslim are you going to be? It was just completely focused on that and I remember having to stop them and say you haven't even asked him what he does for a living, you don't even know what he does, you know in his career, and I think that kind of made them realise.

Speaker 2: 35:43

But then the conversation very quickly went back to all about Islam and conversion and my dad basically laid out conditions for our relationship to continue.

Speaker 2: 35:54

So he basically said if you want to stay together, you need to get married within the next couple of weeks, you need to move back home so he was saying that to me and for my partner to move with me and to live with them, and that way my partner could learn all about the religion, all about the culture.

Speaker 2: 36:17

It was just very extreme and every kind of possible option they gave us, just it just wasn't doable, it wasn't feasible, it didn't make any sense and then, essentially, we had to take away those options, take them in, understand which would be possible and at that time we knew none of them would would be Because I think the final option, funnily enough, was you break up, and if you're meant to be together, you'll find each other again. And I remember reading that and thinking what am I doing, how am I going to deal with this situation? Because they were just so delusional about the reality of it and I don't think they wanted to accept the fact that I had made a decision and a choice for myself. They just they've never trusted me with anything like that. It's always been we decide for you. And this was a huge thing. I was deciding who I want to spend my life with, but they still very much felt like that should be their decision, not mine.

Speaker 1: 37:25

So yeah, that has to feel, I think, extremely dehumanizing to come into a scenario, and I think, with with the women in our community, being dehumanized is just like a regular everyday occurrence. So sometimes I'm like do you even know what's happening? Do you even realize they're treating you like an object that has no ability to do anything for themselves? But the thing is, when you bring in a partner who is not from this world, I, like I said, I always give our the other half of these situations so much credit for walking into that and not being like I'm sorry, I'm a person let's remember this Because that has to go through their mind like no one has ever spoken to this person like this before. No one has just been like this is what you're going to do now and it's like excuse me.

Speaker 2: 38:22

Completely Because, like I said for my partner, he's he's just not familiar with, he wasn't familiar with our culture. He didn't grow up in a town where, you know, there was a huge South Asian community, so he didn't have a lot of friends from that community. He had friends maybe in work, but obviously they never got onto the topics like this. So you know what is it really like for someone who isn't a Muslim or isn't South Asian of the same culture to go home with somebody who is, and I think for him it was a very big shock to the system and for both of us I think we would if he was here now he would agree it was probably the most traumatic thing the two of us went through, because it evolved from there and it was a good year and a half or so of dealing with them and trying to kind of come to an agreement, find compromise, which we obviously never did. It just, yeah, it was very stressful.

Speaker 2: 39:21

So from there, with the three conditions that they'd laid out for our relationship to continue or not. So essentially we had to ring my my parents and say the conditions they'd laid out for us we were just not going to accept. And that was really difficult because from them I could just hear my dad screaming down the phone and just telling me how difficult I'd been all along, which wasn't, I never felt was true of me. I always thought I was, you know, a good daughter. I, you know, I did everything I was told. Essentially, I went to school. I went to university, I got a degree, I had a job, I supported myself, I had my own car, I was paying my own rent.

Speaker 1: 40:04

I looked at me, everyone listening believes that you were a good daughter, and it's right. It's this compulsion to have to defend ourselves that like look at all the things I did right, Because when you do one thing wrong, that's what happens. It's you have always been the worst year, a disaster. You can't do anything right. And this, like emotional abuse, is like first of all. That's what it is. It's emotional abuse. We all went through it and even calling it. That makes a lot of people uncomfortable, but it's extremely damaging To like destroy someone's self worth and then you have to sit here and rebuild that Completely.

Speaker 2: 40:45

So I mean, on a complete side note and the point on self-worth, I felt that the only opportunity I've really had to rebuild that has been since my family have been out of the picture, because I've always struggled with that self-esteem, self-worth, having confidence in myself, speaking up for myself. There's so many things I recognise, mainly in work. You know, I'd be sitting in a meeting and I'd have an idea and I'd just I'd sit back and just be quiet and sit on it and not say anything. And that has completely transformed since they've been out of the picture, because for so long I was just a complete black sheep in that family. I never fit in and I was always made to feel like I was doing the wrong thing. Or my brothers often said that I did things just to provoke a reaction which I thought was ridiculous. Because why would anybody want to face the consequences of what I had to face just for being with who I wanted to be with? And yeah, after presenting well, after going back to my parents and saying you know, we're not going to do any of those options you presented to us.

Speaker 2: 41:59

From there everything kind of just spiralled. So essentially I was visiting home quite a lot, so I was going back on my own to see my parents most weekends and try to resolve things, but essentially, my dad just told me one day in front of the whole family, so in front of my siblings, my mum, even my niece, who was one at the time, was there and he just said in front of all of them I want nothing more to do with you. You've clearly chosen him and there's no room for us to have a relationship. And that is the last thing my dad said to me, and we haven't spoken since, and that was in 2017. And here we are today and nothing has changed With my mum, and I just want to go back to sorry the point on my dad as well.

Speaker 2: 42:54

We know what our culture is like and we know how much influence fathers have over our families, and you know, if he says he's not accepting something, then everyone followed suit essentially. So it was my brother siding with my dad, and so did my sister-in-law, so did my auntie, so did my cousins, and then I did really feel this detachment. Once he was like I want nothing to do with you. After that, I really felt like everybody else distanced themselves from me. There was probably one Eid that I went home for, and it was during that Eid that I really realised how clear it was. So I was sat in a room with all of my family aunties, uncles, cousins, all of that and nobody would look at me, nobody would speak to me. It was really uncomfortable.

Speaker 1: 43:49

My dad had created this atmosphere and it was very much me versus them and I was going home to try and rebuild things and I don't want you to have to keep reliving that because that's like extremely traumatic to you know, and it's tough because you are extending an olive branch, right, it's like I did everything. Right, I did everything you wanted as a daughter. You know I'm not in fucking jail doing drugs, and this thing has been enough for you to first of all, scapegoat me to the entire community and family that, like I am this horrible person and like even your brother s going in and being like, oh, you've always been a problem, like things that you probably had no impact in, was still your fault, and then creating this hostile environment. And it's it's hard because they want you to feel like it's your fault. And it's not your fault, but they want you to feel like that. So then we carry this like guilt about, like I did this and it's my fault. All these people won't look at me and won't talk to me, but it's not your fault.

Speaker 1: 45:08

And it's it's hard to sit here and defend a culture and a community that, like you said, like right, we get a bad rep, like, oh, we all have arranged marriages and all this stuff, but it's like how, how else do you describe what's happening here? Like there's no morality in it. Like to sit there and these parents and families to think I'm a good person. I'm going to go to bed at night and tell myself I'm a good person for doing this to my child. Like no, that's, you're not a good person. No, and it's hard to accept that. It's hard to sit here and hear someone tell you or anyone tell you that, like it's not your fault, you are a good person, they're. The problem is them Like, especially because you tried right. Like showing up even after all of that berating and trying anyway, and then feeling, like you said earlier, like you were only able to rebuild yourself after essentially cutting them out of your life.

Speaker 2: 46:18

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:20

That is when I started to feel like I could finally live on my own accord and, like you know, make my own decisions, without looking over my shoulder and wondering, oh like, who's going to find out about this or who do I need to hide this from so it doesn't get back to my parents?

Speaker 2: 46:38

And I didn't realize how strange it is to have to live that way for so long until I stepped away and I was like, okay, that was really unhealthy and I've not really learned a lot of great lessons from that. All I've learned is I just want to live the complete opposite way now and have full autonomy over my life, make my own decisions and not have any interference. So whilst it's been really painful initially to navigate a new life without any involvement from my family, any relationship with them, there's also been some really really positive things that have come of that, and that's been, you know, the reminder, the constant reminder for me that I've made the right decision, and I think it's just really important to reflect on that for me. Otherwise, you can end up getting yourself into that, that whole mindset of shame and thinking what did I do wrong and what could I have done this better and you know, just blaming yourself essentially.

Speaker 1: 47:42

Yeah, and this was now about six years ago. We're on the other side, building ourselves back up and you have come to a point of finding some peace with it, finding your own happiness, accepting kind of what, how things are. But how did you get to that point? What has what has helped you get to where you are today?

Speaker 2: 48:06

So I'll echo what a lot of the people you speak to have said. But therapy has been so invaluable to me. I think there was a point when everything was going on where my thoughts just started to get really dark and I was like this is not like me. This isn't a way that I would normally think and I know exactly what's driving it, but it was getting to the point where I didn't really want to. I had my friends and I could talk to them, I could lean on them, but they only understood so much and they were always going to side with me and tell me what I want not what I want to hear, but you know what they felt I needed to hear.

Speaker 2: 48:48

And same for my partner. He was also going through it as well in some sense, and I didn't want to just keep leaning on him when he was also dealing with the fallout of the whole situation and getting himself through that. So the natural thing was just to get that therapy and that counseling, and it was. It was the best thing I've done, really, because it wasn't just one session. I kept going back and I've been back countless times over the past six years and I've just found that it's just refreshed me and and helped kind of reframe my focus when it's kind of become a bit blurred and maybe I have started to feel that shame again and maybe started to question things and maybe started to wonder if, you know, I've done the right thing, which doesn't happen very often, but I think it's quite natural that you would come across thoughts like that every now and then. So, yeah, therapy has been really invaluable, definitely.

Speaker 1: 49:50

And another thing you mentioned also was, like the countless reminders of like I made the right decision. And they happen as you watch the aftermath of your life unfold and you, when you're in it right, when you're going through all of this, especially so many people listening who are feel like your parents, are going to tell you over and over again that the world is going to implode. You're going to die if you get divorced. You're going to die. If you get disowned, you're going to die. The whole world is going to come imploding down on you. And so you start to believe it. But then, when you come out on the other side, there's almost like that being in the eye of the storm moment where, like everything is very chill right now, like it's we're, we're letting the pieces fall, but there is a sense of just peace, of like I don't have to deal with this shit anymore.

Speaker 2: 50:44

Yeah it actually took me a long time and I think I still have moments now where I have to accept that pieces is a good thing. So you know when everything is is normal and your days just tick along as they should and there's no dramas and no one's yelling at you and you've not disappointed anybody or they've not disappointed you. I confuse that for boredom. I've done that in the past and I've been like I'm really bored in life, like something needs to change and why am I so bored? But I've realized that that's me learning what pieces and what a peaceful life, peaceful home, peaceful environment is. It's all very it was very new to me and now you know, I'm starting to understand that that's how life should be.

Speaker 1: 51:34

Yeah, and the, the. I don't know about you, but for years it took me, I would say, like a good two years to get out of the fight or flight mode that, like you said, that piece that feels like boredom. It's like you're so on edge and you have to like literally let your body come down from it. And it takes so many things and so much time, like it would be. I remember sitting in my apartment with my boyfriend at the time and I was just reading a book. I was chilling reading a book and I wasn't thinking, oh my God, what if the phone rings? Oh my God, what if someone shows up at my door? Oh my God, what if my mom comes to yell at me? And he had come home from work and, you know, just comes in, puts his stuff down, goes to the fridge to get himself a snack and he's like, oh, what are you reading?

Speaker 1: 52:29

And when he initially came home, I had this like internal panic and I was like, oh my God, he's going to be mad at me. I'm not doing anything. I'm just sitting here not being quote, unquote productive. I'm just sitting here reading a book and I've been sitting here reading this book for like two hours and I haven't done it, I haven't cleaned, I haven't organized, I haven't done anything. And he was just like, oh, what are you reading? And I was like, oh, he's not mad at me and it's like so minor. But I remember, like palpably noticing, like I'm on edge right now because he came home and like slowly but surely realizing like, oh, a normal reaction is just being curious about what you're doing, not waiting to judge, to judge you.

Speaker 2: 53:19

Yeah, completely. I think like there was this huge element of reprogramming myself after everything happened, and I think there was a long journey of acceptance as well. So what I heard from a lot of people was you know, oh, don't worry, your parents will come round, of course. They'll come round and they'll accept this one day and you know, when you have a baby they'll be there and you know they'll forget about all of this. And then I was. I was like, oh, great, okay, yeah, with time they'll be back in my life.

Speaker 2: 53:50

And then those feelings really started to change and it was like Well, do I want them back in my life?

Speaker 2: 53:55

And I started to question well, if I have a baby, do I really want them to have a relationship with my baby, because they've done such a good job of messing me up, I don't want them to mess my baby up. So I think there was it was a really long non-linear kind of path to get to where I am. And you know I'm not saying I'm a hundred percent fixed now, because I'm absolutely not, and I still have my days where you know I might miss my mum or I might miss my dad, or I might miss my cousins. You know it happens, but I'm so much better at kind of accepting where I am right now is exactly where I'm meant to be, and I think getting yourself there is. It's definitely not an easy path, it's not an easy journey, but it's so worthwhile. Like you say, when you stand still for a moment you look around and you're like, okay, this is totally worth it and everything around me is is here because of, maybe, the difficult journey I've had to get here.

Speaker 1: 54:59

It's all been worthwhile yeah for sure, and it that definitely takes time, because I've always described it as like that initial instance of even though I still have my family in my life. It's like I'm on my own island by myself and building my life outside of that has taken so much time. But now I look at my life in this island I'm on is no longer so small. It's like we've added, it's getting bigger and there's other people on it. There's like this tribe that you've built and this life you've built. There's your home, there's your partner, there's your friends and the family that you do have and the people that have guided you and helped you and have been there for you in surprising ways.

Speaker 1: 55:49

I think one thing I still have a really hard time with because it takes me I surprise is when people are nice to me, when people for no reason are just night, like my friends, like I've been going through a tough time lately and my best friend's mom calling multiple times a week to check in on me be like hey, sweetie, how are you? I just want you to know we love you and like anything you need, we're here for you. And the first time she did it, I first wife's after and bald cuz. I was like why are you being so nice to me? You're not even my mom, you know, but she sees me, you know, as someone to you know. Just be genuinely concerned about yeah it's weird.

Speaker 2: 56:34

I really relate to that, though.

Speaker 2: 56:36

So we got married in April this year and we had a wedding and a lot of obviously none of my family were there, but I had a lot of my friends there, and then the majority of the guests were my partners, friends and family, and it was that day in particular.

Speaker 2: 56:55

I don't know what happened, but I just I was fine during the ceremony and then the speeches. The speeches got me a little bit, and then it was an evening where people you know chatting to me and just being so nice, being so loving, being so caring, telling me how happy they were for me, and I just couldn't contain my emotions and I just started bawling my eyes out because I was like I'm just not used to this. I'm not used to people being happy for me and being so positive about the relationship and the life I've built with my partner, and it was just so alien to me. So I do completely get that. I think sometimes it does catch you off guard a little bit, because maybe it is just something you've not you've not had, or, yeah, just not used to, and then you become like so overwhelmed by it.

Speaker 1: 57:46

Yeah, it's like. You know, I'm in therapy too and sometimes my last week, my therapist was like, how do you like, if you were to lean on someone for help say, you were having a hard time and you leaned on a friend, how do you expect them to react? And I was like I was like I don't know, I don't know how someone is supposed to react to me, saying I needed help, and she was like why don't you try it? And you know, when I did, it was just like outpouring of like anything you need, I will drop everything for you. Like what do you want me to do? How can I be here for you? Like, how can I be a friend to you right now? Yeah, and I was like, oh my god. And again, like I started balling cuz I just like didn't know what to do with it. I was so overwhelmed and my therapist was like, yeah, people want to be there for you and you need to accept that yeah, I completely.

Speaker 2: 58:51

It's just such a hard thing to get your head around, a hard concept to get your head around because for so long I think this is probably true of a lot of the people that have been on your podcast and listen to it we've had to be so independent and for so long, and from such a young age, a lot of it is pick yourself up, sort yourself out, deal with your emotions in private. Don't talk to me about it because I don't want to know and you need to go. I don't know. Help me clean up or whatever it is.

Speaker 2: 59:22

You know, that was my upbringing anyway. It wasn't. I didn't sit down with my mum and she didn't ask me how I was and she didn't care about you know how I was doing and things like that. That just wasn't conversations that we would have and it wasn't normal to my family to have that kind of emotional connection with people. So, yeah, I think it is definitely something you really have to get yourself used to is people want to be there for you and they do want to help you and you do have people around you and a support network outside of your family.

Speaker 1: 59:58

Yeah, and people value you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like you matter. Yeah, exactly, yeah, but you did get married and you did it on your own terms. You didn't immediately get married because your parents told you to but they weren't involved. But tell us about what that process was like, because I know that can bring up a lot of things we might have buried.

Speaker 2: 1:00:23

Yeah, so in the early stages of our relationship. So when everything kind of broke down with my family, I did actually have a religious ceremony with my partner. So that was something that was really important to me. And we did have the Nicar ceremony and that's essentially needed us to find an Imam in the UK who would carry out that ceremony for us in an interfaith capacity. Because by this point, with everything we'd been through with my family, my partner was just like I really want to be with you, but I just can't convert. And I fully respected that and and that's something that's still true today he's not converted since and I'm fine with that. So the Imam did our Nicar ceremony and I remember speaking to my mum about it and saying you know, if you want to, you're more than welcome to join us. It's on this date. And she just flat out refused and said it was a sham. She said it wasn't real, she said it would never be accepted in the eyes of God. And from there I kind of I just quickly learned that any kind of occasion, anything to do with me and my partner, about us kind of moving forward in our lives, she just would never be a part of that and obviously my dad wouldn't, because he's not spoken to me since.

Speaker 2: 1:01:39

So then from there, a couple of years later, my partner proposed and it was straight away a topic of conversation for us what's the wedding gonna look like. And we both kind of knew that obviously my family would never be there. But I did go back and forth in thinking about should I invite them? Is it worth me saying anything? But at this point we hadn't spoken in so long. It just wouldn't have been the right thing to do and I never came to a conclusion where I felt like I should invite them and they should be there. They didn't accept our relationships. Therefore it didn't feel right for them to be at the wedding.

Speaker 2: 1:02:18

And so I think those moments probably leading up to, like, the planning and all of that, I did majority of it on my own and my partner was a great help as well. But majority of that stuff where you typically do it with your mum or you know, maybe you'd have a few different traditions based on, you know, being Indian and all of that, I did kind of miss it. I missed the fact that you know, those probably moments where I was like, oh, I'm going dress shopping today and my mum's not gonna be there or you know I'm gonna be walking down the aisle on my own and you know those kinds of things, and there were moments where it was it was just a bit harder to accept that my family wouldn't be there. But then I also knew that it was for the best.

Speaker 2: 1:03:09

You know, the wedding we had as well was traditionally very it was. It was traditionally kind of like a white wedding, if that's how you describe it. You know there was no real South Asian traditions or anything like that, and I just knew that that wouldn't be an environment my family would have ever felt comfortable in as well and that would have been even more reason for them to refuse coming. And there was alcohol there as well and just all these different things where I was like they just don't fit in here anymore and that's fine yeah, like they're.

Speaker 1: 1:03:45

Your life is just so beyond that and you know, sometimes it's okay to even just accept that like you're gonna ruin it.

Speaker 2: 1:03:54

This is my day and you're gonna ruin it yeah, completely, because I mean, I remember my best friend at the time saying to me she was one of my bridesmaid. She was like, on the day in the week running up to it, just block all of their numbers. You don't want any chance of any of them getting in touch with you. They might get wind of the fact that you are getting married and might feel the need to call you and contact you. So just block them because you don't need any of their interference with this moment in your life. And that kind of just made it really clear that this was for the best.

Speaker 2: 1:04:30

There wasn't anybody standing around, whether it mattered what anybody else's opinion was, but nobody else close to me was thinking, oh, she should really ask them, she should at least give them the option on whether they should come or not. There's none of that. So, yeah, because it's your day, yeah, exactly exactly, and go on, go on. I was just gonna say they would have just felt so uncomfortable if they did come as well, because how can you miss I don't know, five or six years of your daughter's life and then just be like, okay, I'm gonna turn up at your wedding and be around all these people who know what we've done and you know who we don't know as well.

Speaker 1: 1:05:09

So, yeah, yeah, it would have made sense yeah, and also like you deserve to be surrounded by people who are genuinely happy for you. Yeah, exactly yeah, because that was that's like one of those things, like being married now and like our wedding, like that was one of those days where, yes, there's so much drama leading up to it, but, like that day, everyone who was there was happy for us and everyone there wanted to be a part of the day and make it special for us. And even when we go to weddings now, like my husband and I talk about, we're like we know what the bride and groom are feeling today. We know that feeling of just like everyone here is so happy for you, and I don't think anyone deserves, or, quite frankly, has, to feel guilty about not including people who aren't going to add to that feeling, because everyone deserves it. Everyone deserves to feel that on their wedding day.

Speaker 2: 1:06:14

Completely, yeah. I mean, you'll know yourself the time, effort, money and everything that goes into it. You know you're not going to chance someone turning up and ruining it for you and, unfortunately for me, those people were my family and the only sensible thing to do was to keep them out, because it would have been unfair on my partner and his family as well, who have been so supportive and who have been there for us from the start. I wouldn't have wanted any chance of that day being ruined for them as well. So, yeah, the right thing to do was just never even bring it up with them, because we weren't speaking and we still aren't, so there wouldn't have been a natural way to bring that up.

Speaker 1: 1:07:01

So you're allowed to protect your own space and create your boundaries and decide who is and isn't allowed in your very happy, peaceful bubble you're in.

Speaker 2: 1:07:12

Yeah, yeah, I think that has been a really key learning for me as the boundaries topic and just kind of getting very familiar with, okay, this is where I draw the line and this is, you know what I will allow, what I won't allow. And I think I've had to kind of learn that when it's come to my family and the times where I've let my mom in and maybe thought we might rekindle and we might, you know, become close again, it's kind of fallen flat on its face and it's, I felt, quite embarrassed by reaching out and not getting something back. So boundaries are so important and they were really important around the wedding.

Speaker 1: 1:07:53

Yeah, exactly, and and I think that's also just so relatable to like when you want to make the effort and you're like you know, maybe it'll be different this time, and it is astonishing, I think, now that I'm so far out of it like it is astonishing how quickly they will prove you wrong. Yeah, it's like slowly putting out like an olive branch and then just them immediately showing up with a chainsaw to like cut it in half, yeah, and I'm like I don't need to. And after a few times of that, you're like I don't need to do this. I just don't need to do this.

Speaker 2: 1:08:28

Completely because the amount of time it's taken me to kind of pick myself up after and what's felt like a one way interaction with my mom. I just don't want to put myself through that again. And you know, sometimes she'll get in touch out of the blue to ask me something very mundane and just you know it'll be very to the point and I'll think, oh, is this an opportunity for us to reconnect? And you know, is she trying to reach out and should I make a bit more of an effort? And the times I have done that I've got nothing off the back of it. And, like you said, it's so immediate and maybe it's good in a way, because it is just a reminder that she is who she is and she won't change, yeah. So yeah, I think it's been a learning.

Speaker 1: 1:09:16

I know it's. It's a journey and because eventually, once it happens enough times where they disappoint you it's really easy to just be like actually, the problem is you, it's not me, it's definitely you. Yes, because the first few times you're like I'm the problem, it's me right, like I'm a bad daughter, I'm a bad person, I'm ruining this family, blah, blah, blah. And then eventually they do it so many times and you realize, every time this happens I have to pick myself back up off the fucking floor. You don't give a damn and you're never going to see that the problem is you. Yeah, like you're. There's no point of like self reflection or looking in the mirror or seeing that I did this to my family.

Speaker 2: 1:10:02

There's none of that. No, so I mean after COVID or during COVID, my mum reached out to me and that was probably the most conversation we've had since I've been with my partner and we were living together at that point and everything had kind of the dust, it felt like it had settled. And then she suddenly reached out again and she was telling me she wanted to rebuild the family relationship. She wanted me to kind of be back in with them, essentially, and we decided to. She asked me if I wanted to meet her for a coffee. And I remember going to meet her and I had no idea what to expect or what we'd talk about. And the conversation quickly went back to well, you know, I want you to build our family back together again, because it's not healthy how things are. And I thought, god, she's turned a corner, like something's changed. Maybe she went to therapy.

Speaker 2: 1:10:53

And then I basically talked to my partner about it beforehand and I was like, what should I do if that is the case?

Speaker 2: 1:11:02

And he was like well, I think it's really important that she acknowledges all the damage that she did to you along the way. She said some really hurtful things and did some really hurtful things and she needs to accept that or at least acknowledge it. So I raised all of this with her in the conversation and I remember her just saying to me well, can you not just forget about all of that? And I was like this was the most traumatic thing I've been through the things you said to me, the things you did to me, the way that I've had to rebuild myself after it and you just don't want to acknowledge it. And I remember walking away from that conversation and thinking I never should lead myself to believe that she will change or they will change, because I think they are very much set in their way and they are who they are and they always will be. And I think that the relationship to work again, they want me to change everything about me and it's just not going to happen.

Speaker 1: 1:11:59

Yeah, and it's. It takes a long time to get to that point of acceptance. Right, like they're not going to change, they're always going to be like that and then. But it can also just be like almost makes it easy to accept, like there's a sense of peace that comes with it. That's like all right, like I don't need this.

Speaker 2: 1:12:21

Yeah, yeah, I think and that's like true of any relationship, isn't it? I think, as soon as you can recognize that someone is just who they are and they're not going to change, I think it just allows you to kind of move on and just be like yeah, completely, because you're like this is all that I'll ever get from this person and I shouldn't expect any more. Therefore, I'll never be disappointed by them again, and I do think I've got to that point with them.

Speaker 1: 1:12:51

Yeah for sure, especially when, like people like you said, any relationship it's like when someone isn't going to change and they just constantly disappoint you Like one, it's hard to have faith in other people, but you work your way back to that, but then it's also just like freeing that. Like you know what I'm out See? Ya, yeah, my parents are still in my life and we have a decent relationship, but it is one that is established very much on my terms. Yes, it is not something they really dictate very much at all, and it's almost gotten to a point where I even see the way like my extended family can be, where they have been wonderful and accepting of my husband and my relationship.

Speaker 1: 1:13:38

But sometimes I'm like again that outsider looking in that I'm like this isn't going to end well. I'm like it's okay right now, but it's still like a very cognitive decision to like draw a line in the sand.

Speaker 2: 1:13:52

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:13:52

Of like you're good right there. Yeah, this is the line, and if you cross that line, we're going to have a chat.

Speaker 2: 1:14:03

Yeah, and that's it's back to the point on boundaries, isn't it? And they're just so important. And when you're surrounded by people who are going to be in your life because they are family, but they're not necessarily the healthiest people for you to be around, it's so important to have that in place and to be like these are my limits with you and this is what I'll accept and this is what I just absolutely won't accept. And you know I'm saying all of this but it's been six years in the making. They're not even around so I can practice it on them, but I do think it's really important, especially for women like us, from communities and cultures like ours. I think it's really really important that you have that in place and you know what your limits are and what you're willing to accept.

Speaker 1: 1:14:52

Exactly Yep, and I feel like, with that said, this is a good point. To wrap this up, I feel like we've made lots of good points. My last question is always the same If you could leave the audience with some words of wisdom or a piece of advice, what would it be?

Speaker 2: 1:15:11

I guess for a lot of people you know they're probably in a situation like mine. Maybe they're at a point where they've met a partner and they need to tell their parents and they're not sure how to do it. I guess my advice would be tell them before somebody else does. I would recommend that route and just be prepared, very prepared, for what the outcome will be. I think maybe somebody else on a previous episode had shared this advice, but I think it's really important to kind of have all your ducks in order, as we would say in the UK, and just make sure that you know you've got your financially stable, you've got somewhere you can stay. That, obviously, is you know away from your parents and just make sure that you've got the support around you as well outside of that family, because without any of that I don't think I could have got to where I am now and be so content and so happy with where I am.

Speaker 2: 1:16:13

I think it would have been a lot harder to overcome all the challenges and all the pushback I had from my family. I had a really good support network around me, an amazing partner now my husband and you know I was financially stable, I had a career and all of that in place, and it made it a lot easier to be like OK, if you don't want a relationship with me, I'm good and I can look after myself. Because that's ultimately what it boils down to is, can you still look after yourself and support yourself and kind of continue on and continue your life without them around? I mean, I hope for most people that isn't the outcome and their families support them and you know they may come around. But don't wait for that is what I would say, because I heard that so much. They'll come around and they just they might not, and that's the reality you've got to accept.

Speaker 1: 1:17:10

Yes, definitely. Thank you so much for being a guest. It has been a pleasure.

Speaker 2: 1:17:17

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 1:17:20

Thanks so much for tuning in guys. Make sure if you enjoyed this episode, you leave us a review on iTunes. You can find the show on all major streaming platforms. You can find me on Instagram at DishaMazeppa. You can shop my Etsy shop, disha Mazeppa Designs. Find out everything you want to know about this show at DishaMazeppacom, and if you or someone you know would like to be a guest, you can email BWPSpodcast at gmailcom. And I'll see you guys next time. Bye, this podcast is hosted and produced by Disha Mistry. Mazeppa Music for the show was created by Crackswell.