So you read Fourth Wing and the internet pushed you into the world of Sarah J Maas and then you got totally overwhelmed. Welcome to our first BWWPS Book Club where Jocelyn and I explain how fantasy books work, reading order suggestions, and convince you to read our favorite books. As well as a spoiler filled discussion at the end (don't worry there's a warning)
Time stamps:
SJM Universe and Reading Order explained (3 min - 36 minutes)
Spoiler Free Discussion (36 min - 1 hour 8 min)
Spoiler Zone (1 hour 8 min - end)
Reading Order Suggestion:
ACOTAR:
1) A Court of Thorns & Roses
2) A Court of Mist & Fury
3) A Court of Wings & Ruin
4) A Court of Frost & Starlight
5) A Court of Silver Flames
Throne of Glass
1) The Assassin's Blade
2) Throne of Glass
3) Crown of Midnight
4) Heir of Fire
5) Queen of Shadows
6) Empire of Storms (tandem read)
7) Tower of Dawn (tandem read)
8) Kingdom of Ash
Crescent City
1) House of Earth and Blood
2) House of Sky and Breath
3) House of Flame and Shadow
BWWPS Book Club Form share your thoughts on what we're reading!
BWWPS Guest Application
Anonymous Suggestion/Request Box
DishaMazepa.com
SHOP: Disha Mazepa Designs on Etsy Code FESTIVE6 (buy 5 get 1 free)
Be sure to SUBSCRIBE & LEAVE US A REVIEW if you enjoyed the show.
Follow me on Instagram @Disha.Mazepa
Like the show on FB here.
Music by: Crexwell
Episodes available on iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcast, Stitcher, and Overcast.
So you read Fourth Wing and the internet pushed you into the world of Sarah J Maas and then you got totally overwhelmed. Welcome to our first BWWPS Book Club where Jocelyn and I explain how fantasy books work, reading order suggestions, and convince you to read our favorite books. As well as a spoiler filled discussion at the end (don't worry there's a warning)
Time stamps:
SJM Universe and Reading Order explained (3 min - 36 minutes)
Spoiler Free Discussion (36 min - 1 hour 8 min)
Spoiler Zone (1 hour 8 min - end)
Reading Order Suggestion:
ACOTAR:
1) A Court of Thorns & Roses
2) A Court of Mist & Fury
3) A Court of Wings & Ruin
4) A Court of Frost & Starlight
5) A Court of Silver Flames
Throne of Glass
1) The Assassin's Blade
2) Throne of Glass
3) Crown of Midnight
4) Heir of Fire
5) Queen of Shadows
6) Empire of Storms (tandem read)
7) Tower of Dawn (tandem read)
8) Kingdom of Ash
Crescent City
1) House of Earth and Blood
2) House of Sky and Breath
3) House of Flame and Shadow
BWWPS Book Club Form share your thoughts on what we're reading!
BWWPS Guest Application
Anonymous Suggestion/Request Box
DishaMazepa.com
SHOP: Disha Mazepa Designs on Etsy Code FESTIVE6 (buy 5 get 1 free)
Be sure to SUBSCRIBE & LEAVE US A REVIEW if you enjoyed the show.
Follow me on Instagram @Disha.Mazepa
Like the show on FB here.
Music by: Crexwell
Episodes available on iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcast, Stitcher, and Overcast.
Hi everyone, welcome back to, but what Will People Say? I'm your host, disha Mazzappa, and this is a South Asian Interracial Relationship and Lifestyle podcast. Welcome back for another episode. Hi everyone, welcome back to the show and welcome to our first BWWPS book club. Only, what the goal is is for us all to read a book and then I'll do an episode on it every now and then, but I'm not there yet. I'm still setting it up.
Speaker 1:So for now, because I'm obsessed with fantasy books and Sarah J Mazz books, I of course wanted to do an episode on it, and so many of you have been tagging along as I read these books online and asking so many questions about the reading order and how to get into these books and maybe you're new to fantasy and how do I get into this world. So that's what this episode is going to be. There's three sections so you don't have to listen to all of it. I know it's two hours long. The first section is going to be us explaining fantasy books and Sarah J Mazz's universe and going through reading order suggestions and explaining the different series within the universe. It's a multiverse and that's what kind of complicates these things. The second part of it is going to be just me and my friend Jocelyn, who is our guest today, essentially trying to convince you to read the books and telling you all the things we love about it, with no spoilers. This is just an attempt to give you a dose of our excitement and we hope we can convince you to get into this world and if you do, let us know. And the last bit and my bit I mean almost hour is the spoiler zone. It is for people who have read Akatar and Throne of Glass at least, because there's spoilers for both of those series in that last hour where we're just like chatting about the books because I haven't shut up about them and so I recorded a podcast about it. I hope you guys enjoy it.
Speaker 1:The actual time stamps for each of the sections is down in the show notes so you know exactly what time to jump to, depending on what you want to hear about, and also the reading order that we recommended, as well as the links to things like the tandem read. All of that is down in the show notes. So if you're like I don't want to listen to you, give me 30 minutes of reasons on why I should read it this way. I just want to get into it, and then you can skip that first 30 minutes of this episode and get right to us being overly excited about a book about fairies. Okay, cool, let's get into it.
Speaker 1:All right, everybody, I'm here with my friend Jocelyn You've heard her before on the show and this is going to be our first but what will people say? Book club. It's been something that's been thrown around on the radar for a while now and I was like let's just incorporate into the show so you'll see every now and then we'll do sort of like a book club version of an episode and we're going to dive right into my favorite category of reading, which is fantasy books. And so me and Jocelyn talk about fantasy books offline all the time, so now we're going to talk about it online to introduce all of you who just got into fantasy.
Speaker 2:Hi Jocelyn, hi Deisha, hi everyone Welcome back. Thank you, thank you for having me Very excited to talk about our favorite topic of conversation with the world Right.
Speaker 1:It's like show. It's like how, how deep can you get with fantasy? You're about to find out.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people are going to listen to this. Be like, guys, it's not that deep. And we're like, no, it is. It's fine, let us have this.
Speaker 2:We have a long distance friendship because I'm in upstate New York and Deisha's down in New Jersey, and when I tell you that fantasy books are what has solidified the consistency of, like almost every day, talking, oh my God, this thing happened. No, oh my God, this thing happened.
Speaker 1:Or memes and tiktoks. Yes, book talk really has not disappointed me yet.
Speaker 2:No, no, it has not. It has changed my life a little bit though.
Speaker 1:It has also changed my reading habits a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:But so a lot of people. So I share a bunch of like what I read online and I'll just leave like little reviews. And in 2023, a whole bunch of people discovered a book called Fourth Way, and people who have never read a fantasy book in their life and they're like, oh my God, I love Fourth Thing was amazing. And then you know from there, it's like the gateway to all the other worlds of fantasy.
Speaker 1:It is, and it's written like a gateway drug. So that's the disclaimer. If you've never read fantasy, guys like Fourth Wing is incredible. I loved it. I literally have a t-shirt for it, but it by no means qualifies as like what you will find in the fantasy world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like a hit the ground running. There's not as much world building. It's like, hey, there's like some dragons. And then, by the way, here's the story, here's the entire plot, and in a lot of the other series we've read it's been a lot more like slow building, world building.
Speaker 1:Character development. Character development.
Speaker 2:A lot earlier on. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's I call it's literally a drug. You just get the best parts of fantasy without doing any of the work, which is fine, like it was a great read, it was really fun. But, like, if you want to get into fantasy, the first thing you have to know is like a lot of the elements that build up a fantasy book aren't in Fourth Wing and that's why even new readers to fantasy, I feel like, didn't like the second book Because they're like, oh, like I thought it would be just as fast-paced. I'm like no, sweetie, she had to slow down at some point to world build. And even after Iron Flame I'm like what's this magic system Like? How does it work? And I don't even think the author knows.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We just have to accept it. Yeah, yeah, like there's magic. Yeah, it's like close your eyes and start screaming on the roller coaster. Like that's it. Don't ask questions, but don't worry Go ahead.
Speaker 2:I do like Fourth Wing from the perspective that it did introduce a lot of people to the fantasy series.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Because even for me before obviously I know you and I have started this journey kind of at the same time together, but I mean even Fourth Wing for me as somebody who's newer to the fantasy genre was really nice to fantasy-like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's definitely fantasy-like and it's so much fun I mean I love it. I literally listened to a podcast about it and I guess, like, background-wise, fourth Wing was a nice way to jump back into fantasy, like I've always sort of dabbled in fantasy, but like reminding me how much I love that world, because growing up my whole life it was Harry Potter, twilight, hunger Games, mortal Instruments, like you name it. I've read every big millennial fantasy series. And then, after Harry Potter ended, I read all these other series and they were fine, but like, and then I went to college so I stopped reading. So after college I like eased my way back in and then as an adult, you discover, like other genres and I do I enjoy romance books. I love a contemporary romance. I love just like that magical realism where there's just like a sprinkling of fantasy but it's still just like a romance book. But then, like with Fourth Wing, I was like, oh right, this is why I was obsessed with fantasy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I had t-shirts, I made t-shirts, I went to Midnight Releases, I was going to say didn't you dress up as a vampire for a Midnight Release of?
Speaker 1:what my friends and I may have gotten fake vampire teeth and made twilight t-shirts and took pictures with the apple.
Speaker 2:Things you weren't going to advertise on the pod, but now the world knows.
Speaker 1:Now a whole bunch of you know about the craziest parts of who I am Like. Someone was like, oh, your thirties is just falling back in love with everything you loved when you were 13, without the embarrassment, and I'm like, yeah, that's me.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh, uh-huh.
Speaker 1:Like I'm literally now recording a podcast about. Look at all these books I read about fairies yes, that boy, that boy, that boy, that boy, that boy, that boy, that boy, that boy, that boy, that boy, that boy, fire breathing bitch queens oh man, all these people listening are like we don't know what you're talking about. Get to the point, okay. So let's get to the point. You got your disclaimer about fourth wing, because traditional fantasy books, like Justin said, they have like worlds building.
Speaker 1:You have to understand where are you? Because these are the books that have maps, meaning they don't resemble the human worlds. They have their own place, their species and types of characters. What do they look like? What does the world look like? How does the magic work? Where's the politics? Like, all of that has to be built up and I would argue when people talk about first book syndrome, where first books are usually not people's favorite, you know, because they have to do so much world building. Like no one read Harry Potter and it's like Sorcerer's Stone, was it? I read that and it changed my life. It's like, no, it was fine, it was enough to get me to book two.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So after that, you go into the SJM universe, and so SJM is Sarah J Moss. She, all the gorgeous, gorgeous girls are reading Sarah J Moss right now. All the gorgeous girls because they have gorgeous, gorgeous boys and girls in the books. But again, if you're new to fantasy, this is where you can go like like knee deep Into what fantasy is, because what you will learn is if you want to get into these books. There's currently three series, 16 books total. All of them happen in the same universe, but each series is completely unique. It has its own main character, has its own world, has its own thing going. Storylines are totally independent. However, they happen in the same universe, meaning that you will find Easter eggs and moments in the stories that refer to the other series in the universe. That's the thing to remember, but also very separate too, which is cool, yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can absolutely just like pick one and decide, like I only want to read this, you don't have to like go through the whole of it, and we're going to help kind of guide you into that, because there's a lot of roads, a lot of opinions with 16 books.
Speaker 1:Everyone thoughts, feelings, tears, and there's three series you need to know. There's a court of thorns and roses, also known as Akatar. It is the most popular series and if you hear us say Akatar, we're referring to the whole series, not just the first book. It is an incomplete series and there's currently five books and a sixth one coming on the year, I think we're next year.
Speaker 2:Somewhere in the pipeline? Isn't it the next one that she's going to release?
Speaker 1:Yes, like she's currently writing it, so that will be the next one we get. Your other series is a YA fantasy. It's called Throne of Glass. It is mine and Jocelyn's entire personality.
Speaker 2:My Roman Empire.
Speaker 1:I think I haven't stopped thinking about this series since before I even started reading it.
Speaker 2:basically, I finished it and then promptly restarted it, because I just can't emotionally leave this world yet.
Speaker 1:So yeah, no, I considered it, but there is another series which is called Crescent City is the series where the third book was just released. So if you heard a lot of buzz around Sarah J Moss, you probably heard about Crescent City and the third book in that series.
Speaker 2:And she was like on Good Morning America.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, she was everywhere. But here's the other thing you have to know At guitar Crescent City are adult fantasies, meaning they are open to spicy romance scenes, also known as smut, which is our favorite category. We love, smut, yeah, and even Throne of Glass, though I, even though it is YA, I think that really the thing that makes it YA is that it's so easy to digest. It's more the writing style.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Than the fact that it's not spicy. Like there's a little spice, but again, ya usually doesn't have anything overly explicit sex scenes happening.
Speaker 2:Not a lot of descriptions when things happen. More acknowledgments, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I would argue Throne of Glass is the most traditional fantasy and probably Crescent City from the vibe I'm getting yeah.
Speaker 2:I would definitely say Akatar is more what they call Romanticy, where it's a lot heavier on romance piece in terms of the storyline for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so if you're like, oh, I don't know where to start, there's a few choices here, and Akatar is most people's entry point, because most people entering the world of fantasy came in through fourth wing, which is also a Romanticy, and they were contemporary romance readers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which I would, and I would think, by the way, when you consider that most of Sarah J Mass's audience as women, I would think that, at least for me, before I got into the fantasy stuff recently, I'd been reading all romance because I feel like in my adult life I was kind of lost in what I like to read until I stumbled upon Akatar and it was the romance piece that kind of was my gateway drug.
Speaker 1:Yes, and because Sarah J Mass does such an incredible world building and Prithee in and the courts are like even in my head, the most delicious place to hang out. And so most people start at Akatar because it's like, it has romance, it has drama and it's in a high fantasy setting, meaning that the world is completely fantasy based. There's no connection to our world.
Speaker 1:There's no countries and stuff like that, and so that combination is just so yummy and it's an easy read. You can essentially read the first three books and get a solid taste of what it's like to read a Sarah J Mass book. If you're a romance reader or a contemporary romance reader and you're not sure where to go, you're going to start there and the one thing you have to understand is you just have to trust the process.
Speaker 2:At least through a lot of the first book, because you and I were texting when you were reading the first Akatar book and you kept being like, oh, come on, come on, let it keep, tell me to keep pushing, tell me to keep pushing. It was like, yes, just you've got to make it through, yes.
Speaker 1:And I always tell people yes, exactly, I tell everyone that Akatar, the first book, a Court of Thorns and Roses, is like your admission ticket fee to get into the Mossverse Everyone pays it. We all had the thoughts and the feelings and we all were like what the fuck is this hype?
Speaker 1:because I don't get it. And Sarah J Mass, after like, has really proven that like she can really write a book with some serious first book syndrome and get away with it because the payoff in the later books is so worth it that her readers have just been like just trust the process, don't ask questions, keep moving one foot in front of the other. You're not going to quit, and so that's the advice for any of you who are like I started Akatar and I wasn't so sure or like idea and after meaning, didn't, did not finish, just keep going Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the only thing I would say with Akatar is I have one girlfriend that I just recently got into the Throne of Glass series and she is not a big romance reader. She will not pick up like a fun, flirty summer read kind of thing, and so she skipped right over Akatar completely. So I do want to add the caveat that if you are not a big romance reader, that should not be your first series that you tackle, because it might shy you away from her universe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's my second point I wanted to add was if you are a fantasy reader and you already understand how fantasy works and you're fine with that, then start with Throne of Glass. I totally agree, because Akatar, like we said, is more of a contemporary romance, romantic fantasy type of book where, like, romance is the plot, the relationships are the whole plot. There is an incredible fantasy plot which I wish we could delve into more, but the primary, you know, vibe of Akatar is like the romance versus Throne of Glass is much more traditional fantasy. And Throne of Glass is where people get confused because everyone has an opinion on the reading order of the books, because all the other series yeah, I know, and we'll give you both of our opinions on it, but the other series Crescent City and Akatar you can read in publishing order, like start with book one and kind of make your way through. Throne of Glass is the only complete series in the entire Mossverse and so you have to, like, people have come up with a lot of opinions on how to best experience the series and Jocelyn and I have our own opinions which we will share.
Speaker 1:But before we get into it and the last thing I want to say is Crescent City. You basically can't read Crescent City without at least reading Akatar first, if not both Akatar and Throne of Glass, which means there's 13 books standing between you and Crescent City. I don't recommend reading it without at least getting through them because, remember, they're all in the same universe. And that's all I'm going to say. We're going to leave it there. Crescent City is an urban fantasy. It's adult and it is probably, from so far as much as I've read of it, the most like adult fantasy in that world Building is really intense. There's complicated like systems of, like social hierarchies and all of that, and so you're going to have to be a pretty seasoned fantasy reader and you will be after 13 bucks to get into Crescent City. So we're going to leave that there. And, jocelyn, I'm going to let you tell the people your thoughts on your Throne of Glass reading journey.
Speaker 2:Okay, so first I want to say what I actually did and then what I would recommend, because what I did I don't know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, tell the people what you did, because I finished this whole series and I was like Jocelyn, how the fuck did you even keep reading, like you just fully accepted that random characters existed?
Speaker 2:So okay, so preface this. So there is a prequel Assassin's Blade to the Throne of Glass series, but when SJM was actually writing, the prequel did not come out first. So I started reading from book one, which is Throne of Glass, and a lot of people will recommend reading Assassin's Blade. It's third, right, disha? Yes, so they'll recommend reading it. Third, and that's actually what SJM has on her website, because so you'll read the first and second book, go to the prequel and then finish the series.
Speaker 2:I did not realize that there was a prequel. So I read one, two and I was on like the fifth book before I realized that there was a prequel, and at that point I was just like, well, I committed to it. So I read the entire series, finished Kingdom of Ash, which is the last book in the series, and then went back and read the prequel. I just have to say, though, as much as yes, there were a lot of characters who popped up that I didn't know. I also appreciated the events of Assassin's Blade so much more because I knew how the series ended. So like there's a saying that the main main character says that she gets from a character in the prequel, and when I realized she gets this saying from this character in the prequel knife through my heart I literally screamed, sobbing. I wish I was kidding. I was like, oh no, so I do not recommend reading Assassin's Blade last. I do want to say that Don't recommend.
Speaker 1:No one does.
Speaker 2:No, it was a bad idea. I think it's a good idea to read it first, though, to just start chronologically and go all the way through. There also is an option to do a tandem read for Empire of Storms and Tower of Dawn. So Empire of Storms is one of what book number is that? Book six, six. So book six and seven. They say you can read those tandem or you can just do it chronologically again six and seven.
Speaker 2:The reason people like doing the tandem read is because book six ends with your main character on like a huge cliffhanger. In book seven, tower of Dawn, you follow another side main character on a quest to like a separate world, so you leave your main character on that cliffhanger and then you just don't see the character for a whole book. And I know you did the tandem read, which I'm doing now the second time that I'm rereading it, and it's a really fun experience. So I'll let you speak on the tandem read, but I personally would recommend reading Assassin's Blade first, so you have all the storylines in as you learn about the characters.
Speaker 1:Yes. So there's two questions you'll have to figure out when you decide to start your Throne of Glass journey, which for me is a god tier fantasy. Like there is nothing that sits next to Throne of Glass besides Harry Potter, that's it. Everything else it was spectacular and fun, but nothing will sit next to those two series right now. So when you start Throne of Glass, you have to figure out when will you read Assassin's Blade? Because you have to read it, like it is a prequel but it is part of the series. It's not like the series was written and then she wrote a prequel. Like the prequel is meant to be a part of Throne of Glass as you read it. So you have to figure out when to read it. You can read it first, third or fourth.
Speaker 1:Sarah J Moss, on her website, like you said, was published third and she wants you to read it third. I respectfully disagree. I know she's the author, but I make my own rules, but you're wrong, but you're wrong. So ultimately my decision on that was made by I knew. I mean not knew, but, like on booktalk, so many people share their experience and people who read it first never regretted it. But I know people who read it third or read it fourth, and were like I shouldn't have done that, that I was led astray. That was not the move. And here's the thing it's called the romantic read to read it third, in the way it was published.
Speaker 1:I personally think it's more romantic and emotionally devastating to read it first, because Assassin's Blade is a group of five novellas that help you really understand our main character. It's Elena. But the thing is, when you start it first, you don't know anything about the series. And that is always my advice about Sarah J Moss Don't read the book jacket, just read the book like go and blind and let it happen. But like you don't know anything is bad's going to happen at all. You're just reading these novellas and understanding who she is as a character and like she goes on these fun little adventures and they're short, these novellas like not even 100 pages. So when this book ends you're like shattered, like what the fuck we're on? We're not even at book one, we're on the prequel, we're on negative one.
Speaker 2:I do think if you're reading it first, though, you do have to be committed to reading. Like, yes, don't just read Assassin's Blade is like I'm going to see if I want to read this, because I do think it's a very different reading experience than the rest of her books to. So if you do it first, I think there should be that like mental commitment to I'm going to read this as it is and not necessarily hold the way Assassin's Blade is written to the rest of the series. Yeah, definitely Like a little more, I think, a little more disjointed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. Like, yeah, you can't just read Assassin's Blade and decide if you like Sarah J Maas, like you're reading it first because you plan on getting into Throne of Glass.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is true, you're getting through the books. You read Assassin's Blade, you read Throne of Glass, you read Crown of Midnight, and I will say this is where people regret reading Assassin's Blade. Third, crown of Midnight, without giving anything away, has like a really dramatic ending and the last thing you're going to want to do is reset the timeline to go into a prequel, because if you haven't read Assassin's Blade already, this is the point at which, like no, you have to read Assassin's Blade. You have to. You cannot move forward otherwise.
Speaker 2:You can, it's just not, as you miss a lot of things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're going to miss a lot. And here's the other thing, though. I read Assassin's Blade, and when I got into Throne of Glass which you're it's like putting on a pair of familiar slippers. You already have an understanding of the world, a little bit about the character and like how she ends up in the position she's in. Because Throne of Glass to give you a just a general synopsis is like Selena she's an assassin and she's in a slave camp, and in order to get out of the slave camp, she has a chance to compete in a competition. That's it. That's all I'm telling you guys. And even then I think you should just keep reading and figure it out. So when I read Assassin's Blade first, I was like ready to go. I'm like, all right, here we go, let the adventure begin, let's fucking get to it. And because there's so many references, not just in book one and two, but the entire series of events that happen in the prequel- yes, yes, there's a.
Speaker 2:if you have not read the prequel, there are so many little references of the like throw a name down or the main character will reference, even like her fear of making friends. And like reference.
Speaker 1:It's cool, yeah exactly and you'll you'll kind of you'll glaze over it if you don't read Assassin's Blade first. But anyway, to the tandem read. You're getting through the books. Books six and seven are Empire of Storms and Tower of Dawn and, like Jocelyn said, the reason people read them together is because they happen at the same time. So it's not like you're going to read book six and then you're ready for book seven. Book six sets up for book eight and book seven sets up for book eight, and the internet took it upon itself to create a tandem read guide so you can read both of these books in tandem at the same time.
Speaker 1:And they line up the chapters so that, as things are happening in one book, you are lining up the references happening in the other book to those events, because they happen in two different locations, two different sets of characters. And it's honestly not hard. I feel like in the beginning I was like, oh my God, this is like. Each book is like 800 pages. You're like, oh my God, how are we going to do this? But then at this point you're five books deep and you're so used to Sarah J Maas's writing style, which is multiple point of view. It's not like Fourth Wing or Harry Potter, where you only have the main character's point of view. This series has, by the end of it, there's 15 point of views. Somebody counted oh?
Speaker 2:my God really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're already in multiple locations with multiple characters in parallel story lines, so you're actually perfectly primed to do the tandem read, because all it is is one more storyline Like it's fine.
Speaker 2:I am not a proponent of the tandem read so I'm going to give my explanation for why I'm not. So I, in full disclosure, I'm doing the tandem read this time around. I'm currently doing the tandem read so I made a decision that I wanted to try after you sold it so hard and I like it. It definitely gives a different experience.
Speaker 2:But the world in Tower of Dawn I really did love the shift in the veer to just like delve into that world in the southern continent, for following that's book seven and it does leave the main character on a cliffhanger. But you just if you can just emotionally stomach the cliffhanger, I am a proponent to not do the tandem read. So I think whatever way you do, it is a phenomenal reading experience and I think either way you're going to get addicted. But to me, doing the tandem read in full disclosure, I'm doing it via audiobook is very I'm like having to sit and think and not just like disconnect and like jump into the world, which is how I like to listen to audiobooks if I'm doing an audiobook.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, I so I wouldn't the tandem read. I did because it was my first time reading it and so many people are obsessed with it. And I get it because it was my first time reading it and I loved it because when you finish both books at the same time, you're like ready to go into Kingdom of ash, which is the last book, and it is just like such a fun and unique reading experience that an author was able to write these books and keep a dual timeline in her head to write these books. And also, here's the thing, a lot of people shit on Tower of Dawn, which doesn't make sense. It is the most romantic book.
Speaker 1:I absolutely adore and loved Tower of Dawn and I loved Empire of Storms for very different reasons. But Empire of Storms is very, very fast paced with your main cast and crew. Shit is happening left, right and center. It's like getting slapped in the face 100 times. So it was nice having the pauses to switch into Tower of Dawn, which is much slower paced but still a beautiful world. You get to jump into a really romantic story. But also, like I'm, I love mid grade fantasy, which is cozy fantasy, and so much of Tower of Dawn is like cozy fantasy vibes of like the relationships with the characters, the political fantasy and the political warfare that's happening the just day to day of like.
Speaker 1:how are we getting through in this world we live in, while this impending doom of the other book is waiting? So if you like a cozier pace, you'll love Tower of Dawn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as you're talking about it. It even makes me think that the way we talk about world building for the entire series, you have world building in the seventh book, because you're going off to this like distant land. That and I think that's part of why I liked it so much is because it's like its own little side book, where you get to like delve into this other world, you get to be, yeah, just love. I see what you're saying, though, about getting to break up the activity of Empire of Storms with the Tower of Dawn, so I do get that, and I'm seeing that now, so I agree.
Speaker 1:Also, I would not have been able to emotionally separate from Empire, storms and the way that book ends for another 800 pages. I would have died. Yeah, I would not be okay. I would be so pissed at Kay, all the entire seventh book. So Tower of Dawn is Kay, all story and you're just like I don't care, I don't care, whereas because I read it at the same time I could care.
Speaker 2:So you know what the part of the reason I liked it is? I feel like in the main storyline there's our one female lead, selina Selena, but you also have another character who becomes like her good friend and she's like a really strong female lead character too. But in Tower of Dawn that's where you really delve in to two more strong female leads. So I think that's part of it. For me is like the forever feminist was like ooh, let me listen to these two ladies, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think that's the overall understanding of reading Ser J Maas, which is a lot, because we're already 30 minutes into recording, so you're going to read. Just to summarize, we're going to read Either Akatar, if you're a romance girlie, or you're going to read Throne of Glass first, and whichever one you read first you're going to switch to the other one. So if you do Throne of Glass, you'll go to Akatar and then Crescent City, or you'll do Akatar, throne of Glass, crescent City. The biggest reason most people will say to read Akatar first is because, like I said, same universe. It's like a Marvel multiverse, like if you're a Marvel person that's the guess.
Speaker 1:And when. If you've ever met a fantasy reader, we love our theories. We love overthinking and dissecting every line a character said to figure out what will come next in the future books. It is the best part about being a fantasy reader is like the theories. And the thing is, akatar is the most in the past. So if you're putting all the timelines as because they do overlap, akatar is like the most in the past.
Speaker 1:Throne of Glass is kind of overlaps with Akatar and Crescent City and it sits in the middle, and then Crescent City is the most in the future. And that's why a lot of people will say this is your reading order, because when the little Easter eggs happen, you'll understand it a little better if you go Akatar, throne of Glass, crescent City. And that's the path I personally took. I just started the first Crescent City and I I'm already obsessed with it. But anyway, now that you're still here 30 minutes later, guys, let's talk about why we love these books so we can convince you to read them. We'll keep it spoiler free and then we'll tell you when I'm switching into the spoiler version and you can turn it off. But right now, the spoiler free reasons you enjoy these books.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, 10,000 bajillion reasons. I enjoyed these books, so I, like I kind of was saying earlier, I love a good female lead, and the female lead in Throne of Glass is my Roman Empire. I think about her, and I'm 31 years old, like I'm a grown ass woman. I think about this book character so like every day, and that's why I had to restart it so quickly. I probably was I probably only was off of reading it for a month was thinking about this character every single day, so much so that I had to reread it again.
Speaker 2:But it's not just one female lead, it's a lot of. There's four strong, strong female five I'm gonna say five, actually five strong female lead characters in the Throne of Glass series, and, as somebody who's I just love love women in the most heterosexual way that one can love women, I just love women. I think we are so, yeah, and so I love to get to delve into a fantasy world that, like you were saying, is as robust and strong as Harry Potter, but it's all about women. It's fantastic. And not to say, though, that it's men prohibitive, because I know a lot of men who've read this series to and have loved it. I also think it's just such a robust world that you can fully disconnect from reality and like just dive headfirst into it. It is beautiful, deisha.
Speaker 2:I'm going to kind of call you out on this for a little bit. Deisha, when she's just like sitting hanging out, will literally put up YouTube videos of like scenes from these movies so she can sit from these books. So she'll be like sitting, sitting working, doing whatever, editing podcast audio, and she'll be sitting in the background with, like Valeris there that's one of the cities, or so that's how much we're into this that like.
Speaker 2:We just want to immerse it into our daily lives.
Speaker 1:Yes, let's talk about the way I read books, but I'll let you finish first.
Speaker 2:And and honestly it's just okay. There is a sick part of me that also like needs a happy ending and although it's a very tumultuous road, you do end like kind of get like good feels at the end and I like a nice good feel book.
Speaker 1:So and this Moss is also known just these really incredible endings that are so deeply satisfying and feel like every thread is tied up into the neatest little bow on the perfect package you've ever received.
Speaker 2:And threads that you didn't even know needed to be tied. Yes, like characters from way in the beginning that, like we may have thought like screw over our main character, circle back at the end, or you know, they mentioned something in the third book about this one person, and then you see how it comes to fruition at the end. Just delicious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there is not a single line that woman writes. That is an accident, and I think that's what makes it so much fun because she is so good. So the reason I love it and I tell people to read her books blind like literally don't even read the book jacket, just dive in is she's so good at bread crumbing you in one direction to feel a certain way about a situation or a character and then before you know it she's pulling the rug out from under you, like she knows how to do a plot twist, like it's nobody's business, and it's so satisfying. And what I really love is also like every thought you have reading this book is on purpose, like she wants you to think this. She wants you to think what the fuck's going on or why is this character being an idiot? Or like did that just happen? And she takes her characters who surround a situation, reflect your thoughts sometimes, like if you thought a character did something idiotic. Like trust me, there's a character coming to call them an idiot. Don't worry.
Speaker 1:And so you're never just like left in your own head about it and I always tell like, as people tell me they're reading the books, like I'm always like, just keep going. Wait, you're right, just keep going, don't quit.
Speaker 2:And I also feel like she also builds characters in your head a certain way. So like there's one character I'm thinking of in particular who, like when we were initially introduced to this person, I strongly disliked her because of because you're seeing the character from the main character's point of view at that time in her life.
Speaker 2:It's like there's a character that you're introduced to when the main character is 1617 and it's like a female that she considers a rival and we can all you know how to talk about and we can all envision ourselves in like, in like high school, when you're like, oh, that person there, my arch nemesis. And then you realize very quickly, like when you grow up, like, oh, I was just a child. And you even get that experience as the reader through the main character's point of view to, to see a character once at one point thinking like, oh my gosh, I hate this person. And then you see them again as an adult and you're like I love her, I want to be her, I would kill for her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's the other thing. Right Is like a lot of these books, especially so thrown of glass being YA, she's literally 16. Yeah, and you watch our character grow up throughout the books and so in the beginning, like you're remembering, like she's a 16 year old, she's a 16 year old and you watch her grow and you really understand what her like motives are and why she does things. And I think the author does such a good job of like giving that character room to be imperfect, to be unlikable at times, and then at the end, be like, yeah, I would go to war for this bitch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's fine. And you mentioned that about her being young, because I remember you texting me that during Assassin's Blade and then thrown of glass, you saying something about how like she's a child.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Pretty much and even like the other books, like her character development, like it's so good. Like it is incredible to be able to watch these characters go through hardship and struggle and overcome things and really just become like the best version of themselves through the struggle and they're never just blaming everybody else for their own shortcomings. Like, if I don't like a main character, I can't read a book and I love the main characters. Like you said, she writes really really strong female main characters who are absolute bad asses but also absolute girls girls like Selena Pharah Bryce like they are the girls, girls they're here to like. We love Taylor Swift. We love getting our nails done. We love pretty dresses. We like getting our hair done.
Speaker 1:And we can also hold the sword and kick some ass, and no one needs to save us. Yeah, we love candy. We love smart books.
Speaker 2:The main character in throne of glass. Literally there's a scene where she gets a bag of candy for her birthday and she eats it all in one sitting and gets sick. And if I could not, I can't identify more with the main character now, obviously.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pretty much it's like oh my God, is there chocolate cake? Please bring me some chocolate cake. Or even she writes the characters literally getting their period and you're like, wow, this is what I needed to know. Like how do you fight a bad guy when you have cramps?
Speaker 2:Yes, you're right, it's so good.
Speaker 1:There's a good amount of this book. I gotta say, like all these books, there's moments where you're just giggling and it's lovely yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it yeah.
Speaker 1:I have never obsessed over female main characters the way I do with these books.
Speaker 1:They're just and you know what it is, it's they don't need to be saved, right, like they're not sitting around being some damsel in distress. But also you have male main characters that, like truly see them as their own women who, like yes, our male main characters absolutely feel the need to, like want to save the female main character, but not because, oh, she can't save herself, but like their world would end, like, literally there's a line, it's like to whatever end, like I don't want to exist in this universe without you, and so I know it'll piss you off if I try to help you, but I'm going to help you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I just I like that on that. When they talk about wanting to protect the women, a lot of times they're always adding the caveat yeah, like we can try, though. Like, oh yeah, she's not going to, I wouldn't keep her on the battlefield if I could keep her off, but like we all fucking know she's going to be there. Like we should be protecting her, but this bitch going to be on the front lines.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's not going to listen to us anyways, we'll give it a shot. Speaking of the men, we need them because if there's one thing we can count on with Sarah J Mass, it's the smut, it's the spicy scenes, and we come for it.
Speaker 2:They're delicious.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it's the payoff. Like the slow burn of all slow burns, man Just yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's the best because it has the romantic leading up to it. So like yes, there is some graphic descriptions, if and it's honestly not so much though that, if you're not into it like you can easily glance over it and get a very robust story still, but I like that when the smut scenes come, there has been the build up to it. The guy loves the girl, he's willing to save the world for her, he's willing to destroy the world for her, he's like, oh, and then all of a sudden they finally get their time together. Chef's kiss.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so good and I just like I can't. And the thing is so I would say thrown of glass is the least spicy. Macatar is known for its spice and even then there's only a couple like spicy scenes sprinkled throughout all of the books. And then you get to book five and you're like, oh, this is a flaming pile of smut. You're like this is where the fairy porn reputation comes from. Yeah, and it's fine, you just roll with it. It's a vibe Mm hmm, and it.
Speaker 2:I do feel like it's still tactfully done, though, because there is still such a good storyline surrounding it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have to say like I'm so excited for the actual fantasy plot to unravel in, like after a court of silver flames, because it's so good, it's so good. And again, another collection of female main characters who like. So that's Nesta's book. Like even the other women in the story, like spectacular, just incredible. You're rooting for them, you love them, you see yourself in them and it's just like the spice just adds to it and I love that. Like we were saying before that like the smut is just like female porn because you have like the romance leading up to it, the emotional connection, the men pouring out their feelings and like even not just like. I mean most of the like the spicy scenes in these books are pretty like heterosexual but like there's a ton of characters that are like LGBTQ and like all different types of like backgrounds, fantastically speaking, and just like the relationships that are a sprinkle throughout the series are just so delightful.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I agree. I'm very interested to see there's one character in Akatar who is she. She's part of the LGBTQ community and I'm very interested to see if in future books we get to explore her story.
Speaker 1:I want her to have her own books. So bad, oh my God. I know I would sell a limb for her story, if I'm being honest.
Speaker 2:So I know there's a lot of people who ship this female character with another man. I'm really wanting to see an LGBTQ storyline for her. I think it would be a cool representation, because SJM is such a delicious universe that I'd love to see it. Well, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And also the character, like because you don't find out really anything about her, like sexuality or anything, until much later in the books. And even before you get to that point you're like I love this bitch, I want to be her best friend Again, a girl's girl, right. She's always looking good, her outfits are always on point, she's always there to help decorate the townhouse, like she's a girl's girl and we love that.
Speaker 2:And I also like her too, because she's one of the boys too, though. Oh yeah, she is part of, like the boy crew, but she's not. But she's a girl's girl. Like she's not. Like. You don't get like pick me energy from her. You don't get like.
Speaker 1:I'm not like the other girls Ew.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I hate that shit. There is that one character who's in the spring court who is totally a pick me, but she sucks. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I know who you're talking about. Yeah, pick me. Energy is not it, but the vibe like. That's the thing. All of these books are so vibey Like. The vibes are never off.
Speaker 2:No, no, it's, and it's always such a whirlwind, like you can be sitting in the same book and you'll feel overwhelming feelings of love for the characters, feel the love between them, you feel the smuts. Oh yeah, you feel things from that. Maybe you get the crazy suspense and thrill of the fantasy, the emotional roller coaster of the highs and lows of the main character, and then you also get those strong friendships and it's like you get all of that, all the vibes, right.
Speaker 2:And then the cozy stuff too. Like I know, you're big into the cozy vibes that you get from them.
Speaker 1:I love a good cozy fantasy, which these are not. These are definitely more like high fantasy, epic fantasy. Like cozy fantasies are almost like the magical elements but applied to like everyday life. Like there's a bunch of like magical baking books where it's like the gingerbread man came back to life and now he's like on a little adventure avoiding ending up getting eaten, Like that's. I have not read those. Yeah, it is its own subgenre of fantasy books and I adore them. Or like a lot of people were introduced through legends and lattes and the very secret society of irregular witches. Both of them are cozy fantasies, Really. The one is about an orc who orcs are like warriors and they they travel and they collect treasure and whatever. And she's like I don't want to do that anymore and moves to a town where she doesn't know anybody and like opens a coffee shop and makes friends, Like that's the plot. So if you want something that feels very heartwarming and just like a snuggle of a book, cozy fantasy is the way to go Into. The villain is a cozy fantasy.
Speaker 2:And I love you were telling me about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that book, I would read it again. I can't wait for the sequel and it's like I love cozy fantasies to break up big fantasy series like the Sarah J Moss books, because it's like I'll read Akatar and I can't slide right into the next series. I'm already emotionally devastated being separated from these characters. So I need to like have a day off, have a cuddle, tell someone to like have someone tell me to you know, have a cup of tea and tell me about my problems, and it's like that's cozy fantasy.
Speaker 1:And it's also really delightful because they're not just fluff. Like they have really in depth characters and plots that really dissect like a lot of trauma, a lot of like emotional distress that these characters have gone through. There's a lot of elements of found family. So I also love the very like healing aspects of cozy fantasy and fantasy in general. Like even these books, like all of the characters in the Sarah J Moss books have been through hell and back. Like no one has had it easy. They have had lost. A lot of them have lost their parents, a lot of them have lost loved ones or they've been through really traumatic things.
Speaker 1:Torture is a thing just great atrocities, yeah, just really tragic things that alter people in a way that feels like they'll never come back from. And what I love about fantasy books is they take that and they take this character, who is still so relatable even though, like they're a fay, right, they're not human, and help them, like, find their strength and really overcome everything that happens to them. And I just I eat it up.
Speaker 2:I love it, and so here for it Sometimes, if I'm being honest, specifically in the thrown of glass series, if I I've had, as I'm reading it the second time and sitting with some of the characters early on in their stories, like knowing how they end, knowing everything that they've come through, sitting through their early ons again is really hard In terms of thinking about how this, like this thing, really mess them up down the road, or like knowing that they were in that situation. Oh gosh, I can't imagine how I see why they did this thing for the entire series now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like there's a point at which one of our female characters, she like finally makes a friend. That isn't just the boys, because all these girls are really pretty right Like the boys are all trying to eat it up and literally the guys in the book are like they say. One of the characters literally says I'm so happy she finally has a female friend. I love like they were so happy for her because they know what she had been through and that this poor girl has just been like trying to survive for so long and has been incapable of having any sort of friendships that weren't essentially men using her. And you just read this line of just a character, just noting this really small thing that is so big because you know this character, you know their backstory and you're like just shattered even reading it and I love it. I need to be emotionally devastated. I love that shit. I need to be emotionally devastated.
Speaker 1:Like yes, I'm so happy for her too.
Speaker 2:Oh, gosh, I know, I know, Okay.
Speaker 1:I feel like I feel like we have gushed enough over these books to convince you all to read them. Give it a shot. I will link or not link, but like, leave the reading orders we've recommended down below with all of the titles. I'll leave the link of the tandem read down below. So if you want the little sheet to follow and I hope you guys read them, I hope you get into fantasy and if you do, let us know because I will never stop talking about it. I own clothes, I own stickers, I have merch. It's my whole personality.
Speaker 2:It is my personality as well.
Speaker 1:It's like I talk to people and they've never heard of Sarah J Mass and I'm like we don't even live in the same universe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, we're on different planets here. She's all. I'm not kidding you. That's all I think about right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you want to get into how I read books, I literally want to be so immersed in Sarah J Mass's world. I own all her books physically, as ebooks and as audio books so that I never have to stop being in that world. Like I can get in the car and listen to it, I can get out of the car and read it. If I have a breakout work, I can pull out my Kindle.
Speaker 2:Wait and what's? I always forget what is it? What is the type of audio book that you have listened to that is more immersive? Because I know you told me about it.
Speaker 1:So for those of you who are audio book listeners, obviously Audible has all of the books, but Audible also offers graphic audio, which is a company that takes books and makes them into like almost like an audio movie in your head. They have a whole cast of voice actors for each character, they have sound effects, they have music and it really brings a story to life. And what's really fun is they don't just read you the book, they literally make it something, they act out. So audio books traditionally will just read every single word in the book to you, but graphic audio they're not going to say like Pharah said this in a sarcastic tone. And then the dialogue they'll just say the dialogue in Pharah's voice sarcastically, which is really fun.
Speaker 2:I have not done the graphic audio, but on TikTok there have been a couple scenes that they've posted the graphic audio of, like you know, like the pivotal scenes. Oh, there was one I think I might have sent it to you or I texted you about it that I heard and I literally was at work, like between meetings, and started sobbing in my office.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, so graphic audio. They have done all of Akatar, all the books so far. They're starting Throne of Glass. So when I do my reread, I'm going to do it with the graphic audio of Throne of Glass. So I'm so excited, I can't wait so I never have to leave this world, because really, again.
Speaker 2:just I just want to point out that I'm talking about my reread already. Deisha is already planning her reread. So please read these books so we can have more people to talk to about. I know Because we are obsessed.
Speaker 1:Even our own friend group is like you two need to stop, because if we get left alone, we'll just start talking about the books and like is this Throne of Glass? Is this Akatar? We need to stop.
Speaker 2:I'm at work, I can't have these text messages popping up about fairy penises, whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So if you guys read them, let us know, and if enough of you want to do it, maybe we have like a book club. That would be fun, that would be so fun. So if I didn't have this podcast, I would probably start a whole separate podcast to dissect these books, because I can't stop talking about that.
Speaker 2:I think if we do a reread, I will have to reread Throne of Glass again to help support readers. Well, this will be my third, but so just give me a reason to guys, come on.
Speaker 1:You don't even have to try that hard to tell us to reread these books, are you kidding? I read and you'll understand this, and if you've read Akatar, you'll understand this. But I read a court of thorns and roses and then I read the second book, a court of mist and fury, which is most people's favorite book in that series, and immediately it was like I need to go back and reread a court of thorns and roses because I know nothing. I knew nothing. I need to know more. Yeah, let's try that again. Take two yeah, I'll probably.
Speaker 1:I'll definitely reread Akatar too when I'm in the mood for the vibe, because I will always say Akatar is all about the vibe. You're just like rolling around in that world like a golden retriever and a retriever and a field of flowers. And then Throne of Glass is like Game of Thrones level, aggressive, but you love it too and you're like I need it. I need more. Just a little less incest. Yes, a little less incest, even though it is extremely distant to the point where like, but yeah, no, definitely like it's not as romance heavy Throne of Glass. And then, of course, there's Crescent City and I can't wait to delve into that.
Speaker 1:What I really hope for is so for people who don't read fantasy series, like authors like Sarah J Mass and Brandon Sanderson, I think Robert Johnson, like they will they all have their own universes. So Brandon Sanderson's universe called the Cosmere I forgot what the other guys is called so they'll write all these small series and then they will write like their Magnum Opus, like the series they will be known for for the rest of their lives after they die. It's the Wheel of Time series. It's Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archives, where the entire universe of these other book series they wrote tie in their whole universe. Each book is like a thousand pages and the series will take 20 to 25 years to finish, because it'll be 10, 15 books.
Speaker 1:And I really, really hope, because Sarah J Mass is like a she's a Star Wars, lord of the Rings bitch I want and the thing is, a lot of these like Magnum Opus series, like their lifelong work that accumulates to this series is often only provided to male writers and she is the first writer who this woman has wrote and sold as many books as Brandon Sanderson.
Speaker 1:And really, yeah, like Brandon Sanderson and her have both sold close to 40 million copies of their books and Sarah J Mass doesn't even have as many books as Brandon Sanderson. Sanderson's on book like probably like 20, and she's on book 16. She's got seven in the pipeline. Of those seven, one of those is going to be a fourth series within the Sarah J Mass universe and so I really hope she's still young she's only 37, but I really hope that either that fourth series or somewhere in the future we're going to get to give her a chance to like write her ultimate series in this universe that tries ties in every series she's ever written into. This ultimate, like epic journey. That's what I want for her.
Speaker 2:I hope you know what. I am just so married to throne of glass that, as you're talking about this, I'm like mean thrown of glass no.
Speaker 1:Magnum Opus. She started writing that at 16 and, trust me, throne of glass, the first actual book in the series. Show it shows You're like oh yeah, you were 16 when you wrote that.
Speaker 2:I'm a little offended by that statement.
Speaker 1:I loved it Because of how much I did, but you could tell like her writing significantly changes and you see it.
Speaker 2:You know what? I appreciate what you're saying. I would love for her to put out something better. I just truly in my life cannot picture loving a series more. So I am so happy. If you told me throne of glass is her Magnum Opus, I'd be like obviously, of course it is. It's my Roman Empire. I think about it every day.
Speaker 1:I know, but it was also the first series she wrote. Yeah, also, I'm not going to say no to her writing a 10 book series where each book is a thousand pages. I flew through Kingdom of Ash. I have no qualms about that. Like, the bigger the better. Sign me up, take my money.
Speaker 2:Oh, I know, but I don't know that I can emotionally handle another Kingdom of Ash style. I mean I obviously would. I would love it. But yeah that book destroyed me and remade me.
Speaker 1:I know I just watched this series and I was like I am forever changed. Yes, I don't know who I was before I read Throne of Glass, but this is who I am now.
Speaker 2:Anytime I'm like going through something tough, I'm like I am Jocelyn Neckly and I will not be afraid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, basically, or like even at the gym, sometimes I'm like I need to get as jacked as all these warrior princesses I read about I could totally carry a sword.
Speaker 1:I couldn't run across Otterland with a broken ankle while on my period Right, exactly, I couldn't decapitate a wyvern with a flame. What is it A fire lance If I can't pull the fire string? Oh man, we are veering into the unhinged oh sorry, last piece before we go into, like spoiler verse, what Sarah J Mass is known for and it's what authors like Brandon Sanderson are known for, where the last 20% of the book things escalate so drastically and you will. It's like taking. You're like trotting along in a book and all of a sudden somebody grabs your ankle and just yanks you into a completely other situation and you're just like dragged along and then the book is over.
Speaker 2:That's what all of purple said that's that TikTok audio. That's like hold on, hold on and we go, and we go, and we go.
Speaker 1:Dude, I'm tired. Yeah, and well, actually in the Cosmere in Brandon Sanderson's books it's called the Sandervance, Like they have a name for it. Where he at the end of his books, everything happens all at once, and like we need a name One. We need a name for Sarah J Mass's universe and we need a name for what she does when the last 20% of the book just wrecks you. That's. We need to get her there and she needs a magnum of this. That's what she needs. So those are my three things. I hope for this woman in her life. She doesn't know who I am, but I hope one day she will.
Speaker 2:I hope that for her life too, because I hope that for me.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you've gotten this far. If you haven't read the books, this is where you stop. I feel like we gave you enough reasons to read them. If you have questions, let me know, but this is where you stop. So three, two, one, okay, hi guys. Hi, we're back, except this time there's spoilers for Akatar throwing a glass and a little bit of Crescent City, for as far as I've gotten, yeah, can I start with normal glass, of course. Alyn is my Roman Empire, alyn's my Roman Empire, and Monart.
Speaker 2:Okay, so right now I can say something for, like as if they've read everything.
Speaker 1:Yes, we're assuming people here have read all of it.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I need to say that Irene Towers is my Roman Empire.
Speaker 1:Oh man yeah.
Speaker 2:This bitch is pregnant and kills a Vogue king, pregnant, pregnant. I've never been pregnant, but I don't think I'd be able to even paint my toenails.
Speaker 1:Are you kidding? I told Michael it's like if I get pregnant I would prefer to just not work. Yeah, like going to my regular job. I was like nah.
Speaker 2:Not, I'm going to heal every sick warrior that's on the battlefield and then, oh well, I'm, however many months pregnant, waddling around. I'm just going to go, like, kill a Vogue king while I'm at it. Yeah, no big deal, and that's why, that is why I love, that is why throwing up glasses, my Roman Empire, is because you have Lysandra, who was forced into being a prostitute.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like she was forced into being a prostitute, having, I like think about the fact that she had to have men doing things for her, like she. She mentions at one point that men used to make her crawl, and you know, she's just like alluding to like deep, deep, abhorrent trauma that was done to her. That's why she saves oh my God, what's her name? Yeah, that's why she permanently disfigures this little girl so that she doesn't have to go through the trauma of her that she had to go through. And so you have, like, you have Lysandra, you have Aelen, you have Irene, you have Nesrin, you have Manon, five incredibly strong Caltain, traumatized Caltain All right, caltain, talk about it Like that's what I'm saying Like characters whose whole, my whole idea of them changed.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, right, like you think that she is just this vain little, and then all of a sudden you realize, like even she realizes she's like. I get everything that was done to me and I can't come back from it, so I'm just going to blow these, blow it up to burn it all down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for real. Yeah, make every single one of them pay, and Aelen does just that.
Speaker 2:The fact that she left, so tell me if I'm misremembering this. She leaves the cape that Aelen gives her in the in the prison cell, when she's at the bottom of the glass castle. She leaves the cape but takes a corner of it and then, when she sends the word stone back with a lead, she wraps it in the corner of the cape and that's why she gives it to her and she's like give this to Selena Sardothian, and Selena even mentioned Aelen literally mentions down the road how her cape had like a piece missing.
Speaker 1:Yes, so, yeah. So Selena gave her her cloak when Caltain was left in the glass castle's dungeons and they wouldn't let her take the cloak. So she ripped a piece off and kept it.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, Kept it as a reminder of the kindness, yeah. And then, right before she's about to blow up the entire morath thing, the entire morath dungeon, and like kill all these vault princes and bad guys, she hands over that little piece for like the shred of reminder of kindness, and this is somebody that for her, like for Caltain's world, was her enemy, except for that one kindness that happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. So in this series, the amount of times where like characters show up for Selena or Aelen, out of just that one kindness she did to them, that at their lowest point she could just see them as another life that needed help, and that was enough for these characters to like, rip their soul apart to help her. And I, yes.
Speaker 2:People who die, yes, yes, and I love the way that throughout that storyline they're talking about like those threads, like the threads on a tapestry, that yes, like she went on meeting Irene.
Speaker 2:Not her, having met Irene forever ago and feeling like she wasn't like super vibing with Irene when she meets her early on in Assassin's Blade. She's not like obsessed with her. Yeah, she's just like. I felt like I felt like a pole. I had to go be nice to her. I had to leave her some money, teach her how to defend herself and go on my way Like she in so many ways. Aelen's not even like it's not like she's plotting.
Speaker 1:Right, she's just like I just did the thing and I moved on and I never thought about her again.
Speaker 2:Like I, thought she looked like she needed a little bit of niceness, yeah, or like when they talk about the second that she gives oh, what's her name? The redheaded Ansel Queen, when she gives, when she gives Ansel one extra second, and then when Ansel comes back with a, with a frigging army, and she's like it's for that one second.
Speaker 1:You owe me a life debt.
Speaker 2:Do you remember how she you owe me a life debt?
Speaker 1:You owe me a life debt. Everybody owes me a life debt.
Speaker 2:And even even think about Manon and not. Who is the blue blood blood air Iskra, no.
Speaker 1:No, petra, petra. Petra is the one she saves her from is F? Iskra? She's a f that bitch, but I hate her.
Speaker 2:I want to say a lot of bad words. And I'm like I can go off, even with Manon, that she, when she saves Petra from Kili's death Kili, the women as she's dying, she saves Petra and then, later on, petra goes for the life debt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or even like first of all, I love Manon, like I obviously saying A-lin is your favorite characters, like saying Harry is your favorite character, her aside, her aside like Manon. Do you remember I texted you to us like I don't know about this Manon storyline. So the Okay, I went from being like the only thing I would say I disliked about thrown of glass was in air of fire, where they introduce Manon for the first time, and we finally have three different locations and storylines and the whole how to train your dragon sequence. What the fuck is this? And I just like was dragging. And that's the only part of the entire, in the entire series. And looking back, as I always do whenever there's a moment of questioning Sarah J Mass, I am reminded that it was for a reason and now I'm like well, you can't take it out, it has to be there.
Speaker 2:But yeah, honestly though, so doing the second read, rereading it again, though I love her like I love her early storyline.
Speaker 1:Right, Exactly Knowing where it goes. You're like we needed it. I appreciate it. I understand.
Speaker 2:And how they talk, how much they talk so much about like being made and, yes, clue into more and more like how Astrone is never on board with this bullshit from the grandma and from more at like Astrid, astrid is Sorrel is never on board with this. They're always like Manon, we're here for you, we get it. But like I love seeing that dynamic in the development of the 13 so much more because I appreciate it. But I agree, the first time around sucks. I hated Manon even even at the end of the first series, like obviously when the 13 do the yielding, and that destroyed me. But I didn't love Manon the first time around the way I do this time.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love Manon, you know what it is. This is where, like, the brown girl problems in me really kicked in, because it's like these group of women, like the witches in general, like it was the difference between being made versus being like born this way and it's like through like them, they have to like I think they have to like kill something, to like be initiated into, like whatever, like there's all this like horrific shit they have to do. They have no, their motto is brutality, obedience and I forgot what else. But that's like the motto of the witches and you. The whole thing is like they are taught to believe that this is just what we are. This is who we are, instead of what you are made to be, which are these soulless, heartless, inhumane monsters.
Speaker 1:Right, and I think about like again, when you go into like thinking too hard about a fantasy book, like with the brown girl stuff, it's like we, through everything brown girls have been through all the trauma, all the bullshit, like we were made into these like I don't know broken reflections of a human being and that you can decide to be something else and who you become can be a choice. And I think that's where Manon like resonated so hard that, like, all of these things that she has been put through were not of her choice and it's so many of the female characters in general this happens where, like they didn't have a choice, but they can eventually choose otherwise and they can be something else.
Speaker 2:Do you think that, because I heard you mentioned both in like when we talked about it via texts, and also even like earlier in the podcast recording, you had mentioned that like found family thing and how much?
Speaker 2:love, that found family-ness. But do you think that is a part of it too, that because you are somebody who have really built such a strong network of supportive women in your life and strong friendships and I hope I'm not assuming when I say that I think you look at, like some of us, as like your best friends, as your found family?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2:Do you think that that kind of is part of how you've resonated with this book too? Because of like growing? Up in your culture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like with Aileen, like her whole backstory and even like you kind of learned that her like arrogance and overconfidence stems from being so deeply like insecure because of, like, essentially, the torture and the abuse and the cruelty she has endured and that like she has to come to terms with, like that's not who she really is, but also like she is very hesitant to step into her own power and her own role of like this whole like faded situation with the gods and it's like you know that whole the quote was like you could rattle the stars, like you could be anything if you really tried, and like literally like brought me to tears because I was like it hit so hard and it was so relatable, even though obviously this is like a pretend story of like you can be anything you want to do because of the things you went through Just your own power and strength and so like it just hits so hard, like aggressively hard.
Speaker 2:Wait, can I sidebar? And I need to say, now that we're in like the spoiler section, I need to talk about the thing in Assassin's Blade that literally made me scream and sob. So for those of you who've read the series, I didn't start with Assassin's Blade, so I started with thrown of glass, read all the way through. So think about when Aalyn's getting tortured in Kingdom of Ash, like at the beginning, and she, she, like, does this thing, where she like wells down inside of her and she tells herself the story and she says I am Aalyn Ash, river Galathenius, I will not be afraid. Like she does, like her whole, like I'm blah, blah, I will not be afraid. And then I read Assassin's Blade and Sam Cortland tells Salina Sardothian that he, when he gets scared, he says I am Sam Cortland and I will not be afraid. Oh, oh, I feel my heart. I literally I wish I was kidding when I said I went. Oh God, I started sobbing because I know that sentence is so formative that entire series.
Speaker 2:I am Salina Sardothian and I will not be afraid. I am Aalyn Ash River and I will not be afraid.
Speaker 1:I the entire series and then to know that it over and over and it came from Sam. Yeah, she carries Sam through the entire series.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then because I just did it semi recently where she goes to visit the grave again. I don't remember what book it is, but where Aalyn goes back with Rowan and she visits Sam's grave and she says to him you would have been a wonderful king.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what. The scene where she visits Sam's grave. Oh my God, just everything about it.
Speaker 1:I was just so yeah, and I that's the other thing. I think fantasy books in general, but especially this series, like the way it like deals with loss and grief, because all of these characters have lost people right Like no one Kim's. Through this I'm scathe. You lose characters throughout reads of these books and it's just such like a in my head like we all talk about going to therapy and all of that to like cope with stuff. But like fantasy books in my opinion, are their own form of therapy because it takes a story and it gives you a different narrative to deal with your own grief or your own trauma or whatever, in a way that is healthy but also so feeling. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I always say like when I'm feeling things, I need to feel my feelings, and sometimes feeling the feelings just helps me like process and be better. But there are so many deep feelings that you get reading thrown of glass a guitar, like we've talked a lot about thrown of glass in this year in this like spoiler part.
Speaker 1:Well, we can.
Speaker 2:A guitar. I know I wrote in Empire forever. But one of the things that I think about a lot is re sand in Akatar, specifically the fact that he had to be Amaranthus like sex slave for 50 years and all of his friend and he was doing that to protect his, his kingdom, his friends.
Speaker 1:What he was willing to be the villain for 500 years.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then the other one that kills me with re sand is when he comes back from the mountain after he realizes that Farah, farah is his mate and she's going home to be with Tamlin. Yeah, like that idea, that like he realizes that's his mate and then he just like sends her on his way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, ray Sand is. Oh, what is that?
Speaker 2:I was about to say he's a daddy.
Speaker 1:Oh man, I can't get enough of him. I got to say I mean, if I had to rank like all the book boyfriends, I mean, obviously I haven't met Rune Danon, who is like Creston City and Hunt, but Dorian is my favorite. He could do unspeakable things to me and I would not complain. Dorian is the only man I want in this series, even more than re sand, and we, you know what. You know, re sand doesn't even make it in like my top three because it's Dorian. It's Azrael, I Jimmy, the quiet, brooding, delicious mystery that that man is, and like Cassian before a court of silver flames, because a court of silver flames kind of made me just like Cassian a little bit, because you lose the allure of like that cocky frat boy thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he gets a little more like, yeah, a real boyfriend, yeah, I. So I feel differently. I re sand, number one. I think re sand is like my ideal. I love Rowan Whitethorn. I love Rowan I. I like you know why I think so. I think I had to give the caveat that, like I'm a divorcee, I'm dating in like my like second love era and I feel like Rowan is a really beaut.
Speaker 2:Rowan and Aileen are really beautiful representation of love after love, compassionate love after loss, without the judgment of there being somebody before. Like Rowan never holds it against Selena that that Sam's death has traumatized her and that, like he was it for her for so long, he's the one who ruined her and Rowan is so supportive of that. And the same way that Aileen did not tell Rowan that she was her like she realizes he is her mate way before he does and she doesn't tell him because she's afraid of upsetting him.
Speaker 1:Mm, hmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I so. To me, there is something so beautiful and poetic about Rowan and Aileen that he is definitely like re sand. I mean, he's got like sex appeal, he's a daddy.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, the thing that made the things he did with his hands.
Speaker 2:Oh, my gosh, yeah, and other parts too, all the parts. There's a tongue scene that I think about a lot, but I, yeah, rowan, I would put Rowan above every Rowan's. Up there for first, actually, yeah, I do.
Speaker 1:I like Rowan. I find him a little grumpy, you know. He's a little. A little too moody for me. I like my men to just be like. I don't know what I like my men to be, but yeah, I mean I get the appeal of Rowan. I think, like physically obviously all of them are attractive, like you're not going to say no to any of them, but no, yeah, no, dorian is my.
Speaker 2:It's the banter. It's the banter for me with Dorian. Oh, I was going to say that's totally it for you.
Speaker 1:It's the banter, it's yeah, and many other things that he can do. Hello, witch Ling.
Speaker 2:I can't.
Speaker 1:Hello Prince, hello witch Ling, all day. Oh, I know, I don't know. Yeah, the men definitely make the books go by In the wrong way. You know it's.
Speaker 2:It's a bummer that nobody references K All because I feel like K All gets in some ways the short end of the stick, because he breaks A Lin's heart. We hate you.
Speaker 1:You got to hate him a little bit, but like he's, a good guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hold on, you can't. This is my one beef with the K All storyline, because I know you're a little less K All friendly than I am.
Speaker 1:He's also human.
Speaker 2:He's frustrating the man. So, like the whole reason that A Lin and him split is because of oh, what's her name? Why am I having a stroke? Mehime, mehime, mehime, mehime.
Speaker 1:Mehime.
Speaker 2:Her death, mehime.
Speaker 1:Because of Mehime has death.
Speaker 2:All right, oh, absolutely. But number one that bitch orchestrated her own death. Kale was not at fault. She was going to get herself killed regardless because she had an agenda. Number two he was the king's guard. She was an assassin. Are we mad that he didn't tell her the king's secret? Like we get the? The king is a bad guy, is a real follower and he would have been telling the king's secret to an assassin. I understand he was just in jail.
Speaker 2:I understand I just feel like, from logic's perspective, he didn't really do anything wrong.
Speaker 1:Yes, I, so that part is actually not what I dislike Kale for, oh, I have no issue with that Because, like those are all fair points, because, like this is his job, obviously, like Dorian is the homey, like the bromance of the year, I love Dorian and Kale's bromance is truly like just my favorite thing, but I love, how God.
Speaker 2:So I just love because I'm in Tower of Dawn right now. There are so many times in Tower of Dawn that like that's Kale's true love. Yeah, because he'll be like everything. So I don't care what happens to me, as long as Dorian's OK. I don't care what happens to me, as long as Dorian's OK.
Speaker 1:It's like I wonder, I wonder where Dorian is. I wonder if Dorian still alive. What's Dorian doing? I know Dorian's banging Menon. That's what he's doing. Don't worry about it, yeah.
Speaker 2:He's using his shadow hands.
Speaker 1:Oh man, no, what. What I dislike about Kale and Dorian calls him out on it. This is what I mean about like, like Sarah J Mass, like the characters will say what you're thinking where. Like him not Like forgiving Selena or Aileen for being a fay. Like when he finds out she's Aileen, she's fay. And just like holding this thing against her about her having magic, her being super powerful, her being a fay, and like judging her for it. Like she can't change this about herself. And Dorian says he's like you have to love all of her. Like this is exactly the way she is. You can't pick and choose what parts of her to care about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I get that. I get that. I feel like Kale still gets the short end of the stick because like not for anything, so he's what? Like 22 or 23 and yeah. So Dorian and he was yeah they're both 23.
Speaker 1:Dorian and him are both 23.
Speaker 2:So he was 13 when magic went. Out of that went kaboots and the fay. To my understanding, like we're everywhere, they were only in. Like there were some in Terrison, there were some in Doranel, but like they're not everywhere, right?
Speaker 1:Yes, and they were like, depending on the type of fay, they were all like good and kind to humans, yeah, yeah. So I also feel like with that.
Speaker 2:So the thing that I kind of give Kale shit for is the way he's like horrified the A-Lens and the staff that Selena's an assassin. She's an assassin and she kills people. What you kill people Like, mind you doing this whole time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and she's like your captain of the guard. You've never killed anybody, right?
Speaker 2:How the first friggin person that he kills is Kane.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and then also like is so devastated by this, and Selena's like. You're captain of the guard. Like your men do this all the time and you just wipe your hands of it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:That should get me so.
Speaker 2:I I've always thought that Kale's position is weird because he's captain of the guard, but he's very much a figurehead.
Speaker 1:I feel like he's like a figurehead to the King of Otterland, because Well, his job is really just to protect the King and Dorian Like, and he's like the strategy man.
Speaker 2:But it's weird that he's not clued into, like the bigger plan stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, I think because the like the King of Otterland, like knew he's like this kid's only here for Dorian because of the bromance, but like also the King is the Volg King. So like there was a level of who can I control and also who has the magic, and also who has the magic and Kale has no man.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, but OK. So I have two things that are never addressed that drive me fucking nuts. Ok, one we don't really learn anything about the role of the gods. Like we get the witch mirror scene and then I'm like where are these gods coming from and who the fuck are they and why are they relevant? And we never get that. We never get that, and it really bugs me. And also also so because this is a spoiler section the whole thing is like my price is nameless and you realize the King of Otterland doesn't have a name, right? That's the whole plot twist.
Speaker 1:Your series the entire series, which I'm like, wow, I actually never put that together. But you know who else also never put it together, his fucking wife.
Speaker 2:What the hell I OK. The thing that kills me is I and again I'm doing the rereads. So I literally just read this line, like a week ago, where Dorian says something about like how his dad, how he said, and the Vogue King reproduced with my mom twice, like something like that. So it also like, ok, what's going on with? What's the brother's name? Ha ha ha, holland, his name, holland. So is Holland part Vogue Because Dorian gets the Vogue magic. Like that's the assumption right, that Dorian got the Vogue magic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, but I think there's no, but there's magic in his bloodline already, because they're also, they're also descendants of a map. You're right, yeah, of like the fire bloodline. Yeah, yeah, because the Vogue King and the princes can only inhabit people who have magic, so that they can have all that power to like latch onto. That's what the whole thing with the collars is, the collar scene and Queen of Shadows, which, in my opinion, queen of Shadows, is my favorite book, besides, obviously, kingdom of Ash.
Speaker 1:But the first chapter where, like at the end of the Fire of Fire, they put the collar on Dorian and then you kind of forget about it because you're not sure how that's going to work. And then you open Queen of Shadows, and the first chapter is Dorian trapped inside himself, forgetting his name, forgetting who Sorcia is, not knowing how to fight off the Vogue Prince inside of him. Let me tell you the way, the way I considered DNFing this series, because I was so mad. I mean, I wasn't going to you, obviously I read it, but like I was so mad Because I love Dorian, I love Dorian.
Speaker 2:So I never had the Dorian you have Dorian feels. I have never had as strong of Dorian feels, I think, because, if I'm being honest, I think I'm a fair weather friend and so, like, as soon as Alyn was like I'm not going to bang you, I was like Dorian's not bangable. Then Well.
Speaker 1:So in my opinion, I think if it went just off of looks, dorian to me is, besides the banter, which is absolutely it, for me it's also his description of the way he looks like, if you told me, like paint, paint your perfect man. Physically it's the tan skin, it's the luscious dark hair and it's the like sapphire blue eyes that go with it. And then, like that witty charm and banter that Dorian has, that like swagger he always carries like oh, eat it up, eat it up. Give me all the Dorian Manon's mutt. I hope that's the next thrown of class spin off we get if we get a spin off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want to see a lead in Lorkan or Lysandra and Aiden, I know you're not on the lead in Lorkan train.
Speaker 1:I know that I'm not on it. I just don't care for it because Lork Lorkan is so fucking annoying.
Speaker 2:So Lorkan is annoying, I agree, but a lead to me is fucking fantastic. She was in chains, she literally had a deformed foot and ran across the fucking country.
Speaker 2:Yeah no, she's a badass, she was eating berries and grass and water and she had like three little knives. That's all she did. Yeah, she's hobbling because she has, because they describe her foot like her foot and ankle, like it's so broken and twisted that she's like not even walking on her foot, like she's like walking on the side of her foot. Yeah, and she ran across the country and then she and she's like this petite little thing, but she also has curves somehow. And then you have this big hulking man who wants to take care of her and he's described as being almost like seven feet tall and this like gigantic brute of a human. And yeah, I'm going to protect her. And then when, when, like the weight, the wave is coming down or about to come down and a lead's like okay, I'm just going to go right out on Hellas's horse and save Lorcan, despite the fact that she's crippled and she's like running and oh, I know that was very disconjoined.
Speaker 2:I'm here for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, a lead breaks my heart because she's always described as like the forgotten one, like the girl locked in the tower. Because this whole plot is happening right and a lead is technically a part of the court of Terrison, like and she's a yes, yeah, she's a royal, like she's not nobody and yes, she's just forgotten because, like you know, got Selena, she's the future Queen of Terrison, she's Aileen, you know. We got Rowan, the Prince of whatever you know the cadre, like all the Menon is the Queen of the Croc in witches and and then poor a lead is just like out here getting wrecked.
Speaker 2:And never gives up, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that was so. That's a whole other plotline, right, like I really hope, because there is whisperings of a throne of glass. Spin off that I hope it is like Menon and Dorian and a lead and like the witch story, like the Western weights, the union that happens with Otterlyn.
Speaker 2:The croc, the croc and stuff yeah because the grandma is still alive.
Speaker 1:homegirl, right, she's alive, does she die?
Speaker 2:No, doesn't grandma die. Asherin kills her. Asherin kills her during her yield.
Speaker 1:Right, right, right Okay.
Speaker 2:And that's still open.
Speaker 1:Like that whole storyline is open for interpretation of. Like what happens to Dorian as king, what happens to Menon and the wastes. How do the the witches find their way? Everything's all open.
Speaker 2:I also. So the one thing that I had seen from graphic audio no, I don't know if somebody created this or if it is like already the real graphic audio, because I know you said that they're like working on the graphic audio right now. So I don't know if it was a real one or just like somebody created it, but it was a graphic audio of when the Crocans are like getting the light to know that, like they're going to war for their queen.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and then the Crocans talk about it.
Speaker 2:And there's like women who are like they leave their families. They just like leave in the middle of the night because the queen is here and the queen is calling, and like we're going.
Speaker 1:The call to action is here.
Speaker 2:I know, and it's so female empowering, that scene too, like it's so humbling to me that it's just these, like these women, who've been hidden witches out in society for forever, being like, knowing that they're a hunted group because they're the Crocans with, as opposed to like, the bluebloods and the blackbeaks and all the dire teeth, yeah, yeah, and, and they just come.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's just so many like truly iconic moments in Throne of Glass. But I also think we have to remember Akatar and Crescent City aren't finished yet, like they're ongoing series, so we don't have all the feels yet because it hasn't really come together. Because I did, I loved a court of wings and ruin, which is the third of Akatar, because when Sarah J Moss got her book deal for that it was greenlit as a trilogy. So that's what she wrote and so it does have that like culmination feeling. But it's just only three books and, of course, like that's still more of a side plot, it is the romance Also.
Speaker 1:I just Elaine kills me. This bitch Elaine, who just collects sympathy throughout the books, doesn't do anything useful, complains 24, seven, and then this whole thing with Elaine and the fucking flowers, like oh, like she used her spare money on flowers. I'm like your family is starving, your family is living in surf dumb in the medieval ages. You're a youngest sister is hunting in the woods that could kill her and you didn't think let me buy some seeds to grow fucking potatoes or something. Really, not even that was. That was still too much to ask of you, elaine.
Speaker 2:Grave fruits and vegetables that are flowering plants too.
Speaker 1:And also you get. You only have to buy the seeds once, because you can collect the seeds from the fruit to replant. Like so many plot holes in Elaine's logic that I just can't deal with her.
Speaker 2:Well, Elaine and Nesta, I I get that we're supposed to have this like full circle moment with Nesta, where we like understand her trauma and she gives back to the women by training them and but like as somebody who like we've all gone through our ship, Like I've gone through shit and like I would never do that to one of my siblings, just be like and then be a dick to them while they're like fighting to save my life. No, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:I'm your youngest sibling too. Not even like the whole time. I'm thinking fair, as the oldest sister like she's out here hunting for food, making all these sacrifices, trying to take care of her family turns out she's the youngest, and then she has two older sisters that are utterly useless. And again, I like Nesta's redemption arc. I get it, but she still sucks. And here's the thing. There's a perfect description on tiktok, though, where it was like the people who hate Nesta are Nesta and the people who love her are Pharah, and I was like, yeah, cuz I read Nesta story arc and there's like this whole thing about her dad and like her resentment of her parents and all that, and I'm like I, I get Nesta to some degree. Yeah, and that's probably why I fucking hate her, because I didn't choose to turn into a cunt over it, but Anyway, go on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, yeah, I. I just I'm not team Nesta, and you know what I know? This makes me a basic bitch. I want Lucian and Elaine together. I Don't want Lucian to not be with his mate.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, I mean, and it will happen, like SJM gives us a happy ending, we'll get it eventually, I Want okay, so can I go on, go on, I have.
Speaker 2:I have a. I have a crazy theory. This is my crazy theory about Akatar. I don't think Elaine and Lucian are gonna end up together. I don't know, I don't know if she's gonna end up with anybody like. She might just like go off and be single, but I have a theory. This is actually about Eris and Moore, oh, and so my Eris and Moore theory has to do with Lucian and Elaine as well. So If you hear Eris talk about more and like what happened between them, he always says like oh, I think Moore understands now, like there's more than it seems like he kind of like dodgy about why he did things, why he, whatever.
Speaker 1:I have a theory.
Speaker 2:I'm going to continue so Eris's dad is Like to Eris like the worst. All he ever says is like I want my dad's throne, I don't want to be like him, fuck my dad, whatever. And and Eris's parents are mates who are unhappy. Like the mom feels trapped, she's unhappy, she had an affair. That's why Lucian is is like half Healy in the sun.
Speaker 1:Yeah so no, the Donkort guy son.
Speaker 2:Yeah, donkort guy Helios Helios.
Speaker 1:No, I thought that was decor. I thought he's the young one, that was new.
Speaker 2:Oh, I don't remember anyway, okay, I don't remember.
Speaker 2:Anyways, eris doesn't want to be like his dad. So Eris does not want to be married to somebody, even if it's his mate, and have them be unhappy. Moore did not want to go be with them. I think Eris realized Moore is his mate Sooner than more did. I think Moore knows now and they're both like on it.
Speaker 2:Not, I think Moore is like that on it, I think Eris is, because there's also a scene where Moore had come by a while ago and Eris says something like oh, she's not coming out to see me, or something, and Cassie I think it's Cassie, and who's in it is like well, how'd you know she was here before and he like sensed her. So I think that Eris and Moore are mates and he did not Marry her or like take her after she'd gotten like abused by her family, because his dad would have seen that as like okay, you're claiming her, she's still gonna get married to you, like you own her, whatever, and now she's gonna be miserable and then so hold on pause. Then I think Eris and Lucian are gonna have like a brother bonding moment when Elaine rejects him as a mate and then the four, like the two brothers, are gonna have like a bro moment about the fact that, like, both of them are not with their mates.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I disagree partially, Let me know. Well.
Speaker 1:So here's the thing more we find out, she's by Right, she's by not but she's mostly like, yet right, and I think ultimately more will end up with a woman because she talked about the one girl she was in love with. I think Eris's storyline part of why he's always so dodgy and trying to be like I'm not what you think I am, because the whole thing is more ends up thrown into the autumn court, nailed with a no on her abdomen, which is so horrific, and he tells his men don't touch her Because if they touched her they would claim her as theirs in the autumn court. So the reason he walks away, doesn't address her, doesn't acknowledge her, doesn't touch her, is so he doesn't have to claim her because he knows she'll be unhappy. And I don't even think it's a mating thing. I think it was just like. I'm not that kind of male.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to trap her in an unhappy situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you I'm I'm waiting for a mate thing, though I. Don't think they're gonna end up together. I don't think they're gonna end up together, but I would love to see it as like a mate thing and then Lucian bonds with him over it.
Speaker 1:So I think Lucen and Aris will have like a like a come to Jesus where they like bro bond, because right now Lucian. Lucian doesn't have a home. He's, he's very he's like a nomad. He's been floating around his whole life. He's out of the spring court, he doesn't really fit in with the night court and then he had the whole jury and side story thing and and then also of course has to go to find the in the other continent. So he's kind of a nomad and I think he'll eventually get his story arc where he comes home, where he becomes a part of the autumn court. Or Remember, his dad Is not his dad, his dad is the High Lord of the Dawn Court.
Speaker 2:I Think, I think, don't yeah um Cuz. Summer court is healing, I thought does the dawn court have any other errors? Do you know that?
Speaker 1:would know no, because remember, yeah, so the dawn court, remember.
Speaker 1:He's the one who's always trying to have a threesome with more. Yeah, as Cuz he's by, and that's why Lucian is always described as tan. His other siblings are all pale as shit and then Lucian has red hair but he's tan like the High Lord of the dawn court and so and he doesn't have any. So I think he's gonna have his come to Jesus with eras and then he's gonna realize this whole thing with his real dad's court and he might find a place somewhere in there where he becomes a part of Either building a new autumn court when eras eventually takes over, and then plays some sort of Ambassador type role, like he always has, like he was for the spring court with the dawn court, and he can kind of like lean into that role of being someone who can fit in anywhere. Yeah, I Obviously the obvious thought is that he'll end up with Elaine, because Elaine here's the thing Elaine also doesn't have a home right now, like she's tolerated by the night court and Pharah will always take care of her.
Speaker 1:She's not in it and she doesn't have a role. Like what are you gonna do? Be nix's nanny? He's, he's gonna teach you how to play an orange tree, maybe. Like what are you gonna do, elaine? Yeah, there's only so much sympathy you can collect.
Speaker 2:I want to see an asriel story. Oh my god.
Speaker 1:I think Gwyn and asriel just like belong together. I hope Gwyn is asriel's mate. I'm shipping it so hard.
Speaker 2:I don't think it is, but I want it to be I don't think it is and, honestly, okay, I don't know if this is bad, though I feel like it's not gonna happen where all three of the bad boys get their mates and we like see them all be made of.
Speaker 1:I think. I kind of so I think they will, because of how sjm writes and she loves like a neat and tidy, satisfying ending.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is why I think Asriel will. And the thing is, of all of them, asriel deserves it the most, I think.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:He deserves to find and be with his mate more than anyone.
Speaker 2:So I'm interested because obviously I I don't know if I said this I haven't read the crescent city series at all um, I've heard and I again I'm like trying not to do spoilers for myself in it but I've heard that asriel may come in crescent city or be mentioned in crescent city. I think it would be fucking cool if he got a mate in a different series.
Speaker 1:Oh, like in a different realm.
Speaker 2:Think about like if he leaves because he's got that weird like shadowy thing, it could mean something else, like where?
Speaker 1:is he all the time? Where is, as Disappearing into?
Speaker 2:the shadows, a mate in crescent city, and then he has to make a choice like do I live in crescent city or do I stay in the layer, or is that what he will keep switching back and forth?
Speaker 1:because the other thing is the reason throne of glass is so important is you, under you start to learn how these like portals work, but also how the structure of the multiverse is like. It's not linear, they're not like next to each other, they're on top of each other, like each realm is falling on top of itself, because obviously, oh alyn falls through them, she falls through crescent city, she falls through um prithian, so that would make sense if he was world jumping, and part of because asriel's also described as like extremely powerful, like you don't really know it, because it's such a different form of power than like re-sand, but like Between him and cassie, and like they could break a few realms if they wanted to.
Speaker 1:I love to see it like supremely powerful in comparison to like all other yeah and then there's also nesta to consider, because we never, we never, truly understand where nesta's power comes from, like, yes, it's like, oh, she stole something from the cauldron, but that's still like really vague. And then there's this whole dread trove storyline, which I love. I am obsessed with that whole, her coming out of the marsh with an army of the dead and the mask and the harp, the whole thing like I really want to see that plot develop. But I think when you look at the larger universe and you look at crescent city, there's got to be a connection there. Where, like where does the dread trove come in? Because she's. She also creates another dread trove item. She creates a sword, ataraxia, yeah, and I'm like. And then we have asriel, who's always kind of disappearing. We've got all these portals in a universe piled on top of itself like a pile of pancakes.
Speaker 2:Like a pile of pain. That's how.
Speaker 1:I imagine it. Each pancake is a realm, because then alien rips a hole in the gods realm and is she's?
Speaker 1:like Right, but she, when the gods go into their realm, she rips a hole into theirs to let in All the darkness from that one realm. She enters in throne of glass and that's the whole thing is. She fucks them the way they tried to fuck her and she's like fine, you're home. Let me rip that shit up for you and let all this in and open up this tear in the world, because remember amaran Amaran came in from somewhere and we never get an explanation about her.
Speaker 2:And I am amaran if I'm an, if I'm any character, I think oh, you're amaran, I'm amaran.
Speaker 1:If there's a character, I'm amaran.
Speaker 2:I would probably be the little folk who are, like, too scared to be involved, but like I just like leave you a little present.
Speaker 1:Is it good to do that thing? Yeah, I'll dry you a little deer. Oh, I love the little folk. They're like the hobbits of terrason.
Speaker 2:This is like too scared to get involved, but like I just watched from this time night.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I am definitely amaran, because you know, you know how you say I have like black cat energy, so does amaran she's like. She's like this little, essentially Asian woman, she's like five foot tall, with silver-flamed eyes, essentially, and and she likes to collect pretty jewels too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she likes collecting cool things, but then she's an absolute fucking monster. Like Reese literally says the day I release you from this body I've contained you in, I'm gonna ask you to kill me first, because I don't want to find out. She's like death, god of old. No, thank you.
Speaker 2:I'm good.
Speaker 1:And I think sometimes I have that kind of energy.
Speaker 2:we're like I'm fine, yeah, I'm fine, but like there's a, there's another side that very few will ever see if in our friend group, you and Claire are the two that like, if I need, if I felt like I need to sick somebody on, I'm like, hey, this person like, oh, like this guy cheated on me, I need to go do a confrontation. I feel like it would be like one of you two.
Speaker 1:Just call us be, like I got it kill.
Speaker 2:Do you should kill me first before you.
Speaker 1:You'll just no it's you'll just call me and Claire and be like I need this done and we'll be like no questions, we got it. It's like you don't want to know anything. You just want to know that you gave us a name and we took care of it.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, I agree, you're amaran.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then everybody leaves me offerings on their porch with blood. Yes, okay, we have been literally talking. With their little little folk do. Yeah, we're making little wooden wyverns to leave on the porch.
Speaker 2:I know, yeah. Last thing I need to say, and it's it does not need to make it in the podcast, but a braxos Is from how to train your dragon. He, I see him. Yeah, he's not a big, scary dragon, he's like the one with, like, the big smile, yeah, and the big and the big eyes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah he is definitely the dragon from how to train your dragon, 100% Mm-hmm. Well, this was fun. I hope people are still listening. I don't know if we made it that far, but or you guys made it that far, if you're still here. Thanks for hanging out. Thanks for joining. All right, we'll see you guys next time.
Speaker 2:Yes, tell us about the books you read, all right.
Speaker 1:Bye, guys, bye. Thanks so much for tuning in, guys. Make sure if you enjoyed this episode, you leave us a review on iTunes. You can find the show on all major streaming platforms. You can find me on instagram at diyamazeppa. You can shop my Etsy shop diya Mazeppa designs. Find out everything you want to know about this show at diya Mazeppacom. And if you or someone you know would like to be a guest, you can email bwpspodcast at gmailcom. And I'll see you guys next time. Bye, this podcast is hosted and produced by Disha Mistry Mazeppa. Music for the show was created by Crackswell.