{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":23.790000000000003,"endTime":25.659000000000002,"body":"This episode is"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":23.790000000000003,"endTime":25.659000000000002,"body":"brought to you by Sharebite."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":26.07,"endTime":27.66,"body":"Looking to elevate"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":26.07,"endTime":27.66,"body":"your company culture?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":28.11,"endTime":30.75,"body":"Sharebite is the ultimate"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":28.11,"endTime":30.75,"body":"meal benefit solution for"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":30.75,"endTime":33.730000000000004,"body":"boosting employee engagement"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":30.75,"endTime":33.730000000000004,"body":"and fueling productivity."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":34.02,"endTime":36.549,"body":"Plus, for every meal"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":34.02,"endTime":36.549,"body":"your employees order,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":36.79,"endTime":39.08,"body":"Sharebite makes a donation"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":36.79,"endTime":39.08,"body":"to feed someone in need."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":39.399,"endTime":44.599000000000004,"body":"To learn more, visit"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":39.399,"endTime":44.599000000000004,"body":"go.sharebite.com/pmp."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":45.34,"endTime":47.72,"body":"And one of the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":45.34,"endTime":47.72,"body":"big costs in the workplace"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":47.949,"endTime":50.699,"body":"I've written about before"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":47.949,"endTime":50.699,"body":"is this idea of innovation"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":50.699,"endTime":54.730000000000004,"body":"burnout, which is just"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":50.699,"endTime":54.730000000000004,"body":"too many new things, too"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":54.730000000000004,"endTime":57.7,"body":"many new initiatives,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":54.730000000000004,"endTime":57.7,"body":"too many tools to manage."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":58.229,"endTime":61.370000000000005,"body":"And it takes a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":58.229,"endTime":61.370000000000005,"body":"fun and the joy out of"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":61.44,"endTime":62.479,"body":"learning something new."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":62.739999999999995,"endTime":67.35,"body":"And the real risk there is we go"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":62.739999999999995,"endTime":67.35,"body":"from something that innovation"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":67.35,"endTime":70.859,"body":"can be really energizing"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":67.35,"endTime":70.859,"body":"and exciting to just another"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":70.859,"endTime":73.32900000000001,"body":"thing I have to, another"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":70.859,"endTime":73.32900000000001,"body":"tool I have to learn, another"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":73.359,"endTime":74.599,"body":"thing I'm spread so thin."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":78.769,"endTime":80.899,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":78.769,"endTime":80.899,"body":"People Managing People podcast."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":80.949,"endTime":83.339,"body":"We're on a mission to build"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":80.949,"endTime":83.339,"body":"a better world of work and to"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":83.339,"endTime":86.069,"body":"help you create happy, healthy,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":83.339,"endTime":86.069,"body":"and productive workplaces."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":86.554,"endTime":88.14399999999999,"body":"I'm your host, David Rice."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":88.414,"endTime":90.354,"body":"My guest today is Eric Athas."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":90.374,"endTime":93.184,"body":"He is the deputy editor,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":90.374,"endTime":93.184,"body":"Newsroom Development and Support"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":93.204,"endTime":95.67399999999999,"body":"at The New York Times, and is"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":93.204,"endTime":95.67399999999999,"body":"currently working on a book"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":95.684,"endTime":98.584,"body":"about our relationships with new"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":95.684,"endTime":98.584,"body":"technologies in the workplace."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":98.934,"endTime":101.114,"body":"We're going to be talking about"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":98.934,"endTime":101.114,"body":"these relationships and how"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":101.114,"endTime":104.044,"body":"to create more time for people"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":101.114,"endTime":104.044,"body":"to innovate in the workplace."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":104.494,"endTime":105.184,"body":"Eric, welcome."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":105.404,"endTime":105.864,"body":"Hi, David."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":105.89399999999999,"endTime":106.524,"body":"Great to be here."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":106.844,"endTime":108.67399999999999,"body":"First, tell us"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":106.844,"endTime":108.67399999999999,"body":"a little bit about you, how"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":108.67399999999999,"endTime":111.25399999999999,"body":"you got to where you are and"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":108.67399999999999,"endTime":111.25399999999999,"body":"what is it that drives you"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":111.25399999999999,"endTime":114.704,"body":"to look at this issue of new"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":111.25399999999999,"endTime":114.704,"body":"tech in the workplace and"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":115.234,"endTime":116.724,"body":"to help people get it right?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":117.794,"endTime":119.624,"body":"I began my"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":117.794,"endTime":119.624,"body":"career as a reporter."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":119.774,"endTime":121.264,"body":"That's what drew"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":119.774,"endTime":121.264,"body":"me into journalism."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":121.314,"endTime":123.604,"body":"I'm a journalist in my bones."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":123.904,"endTime":125.934,"body":"That's really what sort"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":123.904,"endTime":125.934,"body":"of motivates me every day."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":126.374,"endTime":130.874,"body":"But very early on in my career,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":126.374,"endTime":130.874,"body":"I started to realize that the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":131.469,"endTime":134.749,"body":"profession and the industry of"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":131.469,"endTime":134.749,"body":"journalism was really cracking"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":134.749,"endTime":137.189,"body":"and rupturing and shaking"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":134.749,"endTime":137.189,"body":"right underneath my feet."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":137.219,"endTime":139.669,"body":"And, like many industries,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":137.219,"endTime":139.669,"body":"things were changing"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":139.669,"endTime":141.809,"body":"very quickly with the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":139.669,"endTime":141.809,"body":"rise of the Internet and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":142.03900000000002,"endTime":143.53900000000002,"body":"social media and mobile."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":143.939,"endTime":146.949,"body":"And I was fascinated"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":143.939,"endTime":146.949,"body":"by that, and I thought"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":146.999,"endTime":147.949,"body":"that's what I want to do."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":147.979,"endTime":152.189,"body":"I want to really focus on how"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":147.979,"endTime":152.189,"body":"can we combine all the great"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":152.189,"endTime":155.744,"body":"things about journalism with all"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":152.189,"endTime":155.744,"body":"these exciting new technologies"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":155.744,"endTime":156.924,"body":"that were coming up."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":157.174,"endTime":162.32399999999998,"body":"And so I spent early time in my"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":157.174,"endTime":162.32399999999998,"body":"career at the Washington Post,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":162.35399999999998,"endTime":165.914,"body":"where my role was essentially"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":162.35399999999998,"endTime":165.914,"body":"figuring out what we should"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":165.914,"endTime":167.504,"body":"put on WashingtonPost.com."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":168.054,"endTime":171.794,"body":"And that really allowed"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":168.054,"endTime":171.794,"body":"me to start to explore and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":171.794,"endTime":176.034,"body":"experiment with different"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":171.794,"endTime":176.034,"body":"ways of telling stories of"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":176.174,"endTime":177.694,"body":"producing journalism online."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":178.194,"endTime":181.274,"body":"And then from there, I went"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":178.194,"endTime":181.274,"body":"to NPR and my focus on NPR"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":181.284,"endTime":183.10399999999998,"body":"was figuring out, okay,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":181.284,"endTime":183.10399999999998,"body":"how can we figure out how"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":183.10399999999998,"endTime":186.754,"body":"to make radio journalism"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":183.10399999999998,"endTime":186.754,"body":"translate onto the internet?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":186.994,"endTime":190.044,"body":"And this was also during"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":186.994,"endTime":190.044,"body":"the time of podcasting and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":190.044,"endTime":195.775,"body":"the rise of serial and audio"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":190.044,"endTime":195.775,"body":"across, a lot of different"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":196.124,"endTime":197.125,"body":"industries and professions."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":197.135,"endTime":199.545,"body":"So it was all about figuring"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":197.135,"endTime":199.545,"body":"out how to translate that."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":199.755,"endTime":202.23499999999999,"body":"And then more recently, I'm"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":199.755,"endTime":202.23499999999999,"body":"spent the last few years"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":202.23499999999999,"endTime":203.095,"body":"at The New York times."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":203.435,"endTime":207.895,"body":"And my role there is all about"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":203.435,"endTime":207.895,"body":"figuring out how our reporters"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":207.895,"endTime":211.665,"body":"and editors in the newsroom"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":207.895,"endTime":211.665,"body":"learn new tools and new skills."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":212.095,"endTime":215.095,"body":"And that's been really lucky to"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":212.095,"endTime":215.095,"body":"be here because that's what I"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":215.095,"endTime":216.425,"body":"really am most interested in."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":216.425,"endTime":219.465,"body":"It's sort of a culmination"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":216.425,"endTime":219.465,"body":"of all the things that I've"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":219.515,"endTime":222.844,"body":"been most fascinated with"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":219.515,"endTime":222.844,"body":"in these changing times."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":222.845,"endTime":225.595,"body":"And the changes in journalism"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":222.845,"endTime":225.595,"body":"have been staggering"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":225.95499999999998,"endTime":227.725,"body":"for hundreds of years."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":227.725,"endTime":231.724,"body":"The ways in which people produce"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":227.725,"endTime":231.724,"body":"journalism and got journalism."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":232.35,"endTime":236.22,"body":"It wasn't generally unchanged"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":232.35,"endTime":236.22,"body":"and suddenly that was all"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":236.22,"endTime":237.25,"body":"changing very quickly."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":237.56,"endTime":241.34,"body":"And I think there have been"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":237.56,"endTime":241.34,"body":"lots of bright spots in that"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":241.37,"endTime":244.37,"body":"there have been ways in which"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":241.37,"endTime":244.37,"body":"we've been able to make stories"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":244.37,"endTime":247.19899999999998,"body":"come alive in ways that we"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":244.37,"endTime":247.19899999999998,"body":"couldn't before, ways in"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":247.2,"endTime":249.48,"body":"which we could reach people"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":247.2,"endTime":249.48,"body":"that we couldn't before."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":249.819,"endTime":251.74,"body":"But there have also been"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":249.819,"endTime":251.74,"body":"the journalism industry"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":251.74,"endTime":255.12,"body":"that are susceptible to the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":251.74,"endTime":255.12,"body":"new things and technology"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":255.12,"endTime":257.74,"body":"that aren't necessarily as"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":255.12,"endTime":257.74,"body":"valuable to the core mission."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":257.75,"endTime":260.725,"body":"And so my role at the times"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":257.75,"endTime":260.725,"body":"and previous roles is really"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":260.725,"endTime":262.245,"body":"trying to figure out how"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":260.725,"endTime":262.245,"body":"to strike that balance."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":262.245,"endTime":264.955,"body":"What are the aspects"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":262.245,"endTime":264.955,"body":"of technology that can"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":264.955,"endTime":267.475,"body":"really improve the way"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":264.955,"endTime":267.475,"body":"we make journalism and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":267.475,"endTime":268.315,"body":"deliver it to people?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":268.55400000000003,"endTime":271.13,"body":"And then, what are the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":268.55400000000003,"endTime":271.13,"body":"parts that maybe we"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":271.13,"endTime":272.14,"body":"should steer clear of?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":272.46000000000004,"endTime":272.92,"body":"That's it."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":272.92,"endTime":275.78000000000003,"body":"It's definitely interesting as"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":272.92,"endTime":275.78000000000003,"body":"somebody who was a journalist"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":275.78000000000003,"endTime":280.23,"body":"in the late 2000s like mid-teens"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":275.78000000000003,"endTime":280.23,"body":"it was changing so fast was like"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":280.24,"endTime":283.59,"body":"social media practices and then"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":280.24,"endTime":283.59,"body":"all the different tech that was"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":283.59,"endTime":286.239,"body":"entering the landscape so it's a"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":283.59,"endTime":286.239,"body":"really fascinating role because"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":286.86,"endTime":289.61,"body":"I'd almost say there are a few"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":286.86,"endTime":289.61,"body":"jobs that are as affected by it."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":290.82,"endTime":292.1,"body":"Really"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":290.82,"endTime":292.1,"body":"wasn't in it at all."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":292.37,"endTime":292.73,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":293.19,"endTime":295.979,"body":"I want to kind of talk a little"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":293.19,"endTime":295.979,"body":"bit about this book that you're"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":295.98,"endTime":298.88,"body":"working on and some of the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":295.98,"endTime":298.88,"body":"topics that you get into it."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":299.269,"endTime":301.129,"body":"We're in this time where"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":299.269,"endTime":301.129,"body":"there's a lot of new tech"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":301.16,"endTime":302.23,"body":"entering the workplace."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":302.29,"endTime":304.2,"body":"Everybody's having to"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":302.29,"endTime":304.2,"body":"use it in different ways."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":304.2,"endTime":305.85,"body":"I mean, just think"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":304.2,"endTime":305.85,"body":"about ChatGPT, right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":306.21,"endTime":308.53,"body":"It sometimes feels every time"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":306.21,"endTime":308.53,"body":"something new is released,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":308.53,"endTime":311.53,"body":"though, it becomes like the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":308.53,"endTime":311.53,"body":"hot new solution to everything."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":312.09,"endTime":314.415,"body":"I kind of want to ask about"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":312.09,"endTime":314.415,"body":"this sort of obsession"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":314.415,"endTime":315.685,"body":"with newness, right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":315.695,"endTime":317.995,"body":"Because it's sort of like"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":315.695,"endTime":317.995,"body":"a broader cultural thing."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":317.995,"endTime":319.895,"body":"I think, we're very used"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":317.995,"endTime":319.895,"body":"to obsessed culture where"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":319.945,"endTime":322.764,"body":"we do get very keyed"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":319.945,"endTime":322.764,"body":"in on whatever is new."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":323.235,"endTime":325.655,"body":"It doesn't matter if we're"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":323.235,"endTime":325.655,"body":"talking about tech or music"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":325.655,"endTime":327.905,"body":"or whatever, people are"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":325.655,"endTime":327.905,"body":"always chasing what's new,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":327.905,"endTime":330.065,"body":"it seems so particularly in"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":327.905,"endTime":330.065,"body":"American culture, I mean."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":330.515,"endTime":332.285,"body":"So in your opinion,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":330.515,"endTime":332.285,"body":"what is the sort of the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":332.295,"endTime":334.09499999999997,"body":"driving force behind that?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":334.09499999999997,"endTime":337.295,"body":"And what is the cost of that"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":334.09499999999997,"endTime":337.295,"body":"as well in terms of how we"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":337.305,"endTime":340.715,"body":"learn and how we make the most"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":337.305,"endTime":340.715,"body":"out of what we have right now?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":341.19,"endTime":342.51,"body":"Speaking"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":341.19,"endTime":342.51,"body":"of obsessions, I'm"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":342.51,"endTime":343.91,"body":"obsessed with this topic."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":343.95,"endTime":345.95,"body":"I find it fascinating,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":343.95,"endTime":345.95,"body":"as you mentioned, I'm"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":345.95,"endTime":346.85,"body":"writing a book about it."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":347.46999999999997,"endTime":349.709,"body":"There are a few different"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":347.46999999999997,"endTime":349.709,"body":"factors behind this."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":350.02,"endTime":353.8,"body":"One is that there's a"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":350.02,"endTime":353.8,"body":"psychological factor, which"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":353.8,"endTime":358.759,"body":"is that as humans, we fairly"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":353.8,"endTime":358.759,"body":"quickly get bored of old things."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":359.269,"endTime":362.01,"body":"David, if you look around,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":359.269,"endTime":362.01,"body":"the stuff around you, your"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":362.01,"endTime":364.945,"body":"mic and all the tools,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":362.01,"endTime":364.945,"body":"you've had it for a while."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":364.945,"endTime":366.355,"body":"You probably don't pay much"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":364.945,"endTime":366.355,"body":"attention to them, right?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":366.405,"endTime":367.005,"body":"They're just there."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":367.005,"endTime":367.495,"body":"They exist."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":367.495,"endTime":368.175,"body":"You're used to them."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":368.675,"endTime":371.195,"body":"Then when someone comes"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":368.675,"endTime":371.195,"body":"along with some shiny new mic"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":371.195,"endTime":374.385,"body":"that you might want to get"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":371.195,"endTime":374.385,"body":"or some new software that's"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":374.394,"endTime":377.675,"body":"kind of revolutionized the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":374.394,"endTime":377.675,"body":"way you podcast and do other"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":377.675,"endTime":380.135,"body":"work, we're programmed to get"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":377.675,"endTime":380.135,"body":"really excited about that."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":380.815,"endTime":387.695,"body":"At the same time, there is"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":380.815,"endTime":387.695,"body":"the influx of new things"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":387.805,"endTime":391.355,"body":"against the backdrop of that"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":387.805,"endTime":391.355,"body":"is that there is just this"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":391.655,"endTime":394.895,"body":"onslaught of new products"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":391.655,"endTime":394.895,"body":"and new trends, new tools."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":395.21999999999997,"endTime":399.05,"body":"I'm really interested in looking"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":395.21999999999997,"endTime":399.05,"body":"at patent data and by looking at"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":399.05,"endTime":401.91,"body":"patent data as a way to really"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":399.05,"endTime":401.91,"body":"figure out, okay, what is this"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":401.92,"endTime":402.96,"body":"increase really look like?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":403.18,"endTime":405.61899999999997,"body":"And when you look at the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":403.18,"endTime":405.61899999999997,"body":"eighties and the nineties, there"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":405.62,"endTime":410.77,"body":"are about tens of thousands"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":405.62,"endTime":410.77,"body":"of patents being issued"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":411.1,"endTime":412.11,"body":"every year, which is a lot."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":412.529,"endTime":414.059,"body":"Now we're up to"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":412.529,"endTime":414.059,"body":"hundreds of thousands."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":414.109,"endTime":417.449,"body":"And so you can see just the pace"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":414.109,"endTime":417.449,"body":"of the invention and innovation"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":417.459,"endTime":418.779,"body":"has grown so significantly."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":419.35,"endTime":421.89,"body":"And there is a"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":419.35,"endTime":421.89,"body":"real cost to that."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":421.92,"endTime":425.445,"body":"Obviously, many of those"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":421.92,"endTime":425.445,"body":"inventions have improved"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":425.495,"endTime":427.655,"body":"the way we live, have"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":425.495,"endTime":427.655,"body":"improved the way that we"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":427.655,"endTime":429.895,"body":"work, but there are so many."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":430.195,"endTime":433.485,"body":"And one of the big costs in"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":430.195,"endTime":433.485,"body":"the workplace that I've written"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":433.485,"endTime":436.945,"body":"about before is this idea of"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":433.485,"endTime":436.945,"body":"innovation burnout, which is"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":436.945,"endTime":441.945,"body":"just too many new things, too"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":436.945,"endTime":441.945,"body":"many new initiatives, too many"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":441.964,"endTime":446.365,"body":"tools to manage, and it takes"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":441.964,"endTime":446.365,"body":"a lot of the fun and the joy"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":446.555,"endTime":447.84499999999997,"body":"of learning something new."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":448.28,"endTime":452.32,"body":"The real risk there is you go"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":448.28,"endTime":452.32,"body":"from something that, innovation"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":452.32,"endTime":455.78,"body":"can be really energizing"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":452.32,"endTime":455.78,"body":"and exciting to just another"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":455.78,"endTime":458.42,"body":"tool app to learn and another"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":455.78,"endTime":458.42,"body":"thing I'm spread, so, yeah."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":458.93,"endTime":460.04,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":458.93,"endTime":460.04,"body":"you nailed it there."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":460.04,"endTime":462.09,"body":"I mean, I know I've worked"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":460.04,"endTime":462.09,"body":"at a few places where like we"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":462.09,"endTime":465.299,"body":"adopted new things so regularly"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":462.09,"endTime":465.299,"body":"that it was like, we barely"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":465.3,"endTime":466.639,"body":"got the last one implemented."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":467.04,"endTime":469.15,"body":"Yeah, especially if it was"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":467.04,"endTime":469.15,"body":"something big, like a project"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":469.15,"endTime":470.06,"body":"management tool or something."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":470.06,"endTime":471.79,"body":"It's we barely got that"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":470.06,"endTime":471.79,"body":"off the ground and we're"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":471.81,"endTime":473.03,"body":"taking on a different one."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":473.96999999999997,"endTime":475.709,"body":"I think a lot"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":473.96999999999997,"endTime":475.709,"body":"of people have been there."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":475.99,"endTime":476.28,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":476.28,"endTime":477.01,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":477.395,"endTime":478.975,"body":"Everybody's there with"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":477.395,"endTime":478.975,"body":"their phone, right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":479.005,"endTime":482.065,"body":"You know, it's like to"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":479.005,"endTime":482.065,"body":"drop a new phone every"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":482.395,"endTime":483.435,"body":"couple of months, it seems"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":483.485,"endTime":485.175,"body":"The big thing right now,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":483.485,"endTime":485.175,"body":"everybody's talking about"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":485.215,"endTime":486.475,"body":"automation, and it sounds great."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":486.875,"endTime":488.735,"body":"We're always told it's going"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":486.875,"endTime":488.735,"body":"to free everybody up to do"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":488.735,"endTime":490.315,"body":"these higher value tasks."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":490.475,"endTime":494.055,"body":"But the truth is, tasks aren't"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":490.475,"endTime":494.055,"body":"necessarily disappearing."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":494.055,"endTime":495.315,"body":"They're just changing, right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":495.325,"endTime":497.535,"body":"And in some cases, becoming"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":495.325,"endTime":497.535,"body":"much more technical."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":497.985,"endTime":500.735,"body":"So based on our conversations"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":497.985,"endTime":500.735,"body":"before this, I know you"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":500.735,"endTime":503.574,"body":"feel that this has an impact"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":500.735,"endTime":503.574,"body":"on people's capacity for"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":503.594,"endTime":504.914,"body":"creativity and innovation."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":505.36,"endTime":508.2,"body":"Particularly the higher"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":505.36,"endTime":508.2,"body":"cognitive load related to"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":508.2,"endTime":509.41,"body":"these operational tasks."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":509.41,"endTime":511.54,"body":"So what would you say"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":509.41,"endTime":511.54,"body":"the biggest challenges"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":511.54,"endTime":513.95,"body":"around understanding the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":511.54,"endTime":513.95,"body":"demands that are being"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":513.95,"endTime":515.23,"body":"placed on people right now?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":515.27,"endTime":518.75,"body":"And how can leaders actually"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":515.27,"endTime":518.75,"body":"free people up to do these"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":518.77,"endTime":521.099,"body":"other uniquely human things?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":521.47,"endTime":524.9590000000001,"body":"I gave a talk"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":521.47,"endTime":524.9590000000001,"body":"recently on this and I talked"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":524.9590000000001,"endTime":527.739,"body":"about how humans are incredible."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":527.749,"endTime":529.0590000000001,"body":"We're a remarkable species."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":529.099,"endTime":530.099,"body":"We can adapt."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":530.149,"endTime":533.249,"body":"We can take on a lot"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":530.149,"endTime":533.249,"body":"of different tasks"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":533.259,"endTime":534.769,"body":"and responsibilities."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":535.125,"endTime":538.7950000000001,"body":"But we also have our limits,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":535.125,"endTime":538.7950000000001,"body":"and we have limits in terms"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":538.7950000000001,"endTime":542.0450000000001,"body":"of our cognitive load and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":538.7950000000001,"endTime":542.0450000000001,"body":"our attentional resources."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":542.495,"endTime":545.234,"body":"And the fact of the matter"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":542.495,"endTime":545.234,"body":"is when we reach those"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":545.234,"endTime":548.9250000000001,"body":"limits, we don't perform"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":545.234,"endTime":548.9250000000001,"body":"at as high a level."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":549.4350000000001,"endTime":554.3140000000001,"body":"And so if we sort of push"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":549.4350000000001,"endTime":554.3140000000001,"body":"people too much in one direction"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":554.3140000000001,"endTime":557.745,"body":"and try to sort of ask too"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":554.3140000000001,"endTime":557.745,"body":"much of them, they're not"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":557.745,"endTime":560.0250000000001,"body":"going to perform in the ways"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":557.745,"endTime":560.0250000000001,"body":"that we want to, they're not"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":560.0250000000001,"endTime":563.0350000000001,"body":"going to be able to do the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":560.0250000000001,"endTime":563.0350000000001,"body":"work that they love to do."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":563.3950000000001,"endTime":566.19,"body":"The other thing I think about"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":563.3950000000001,"endTime":566.19,"body":"is, you know, with journalism"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":566.19,"endTime":569.7900000000001,"body":"and the work that I do, there"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":566.19,"endTime":569.7900000000001,"body":"is something about the job"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":569.82,"endTime":574.75,"body":"that is uniquely human, which"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":569.82,"endTime":574.75,"body":"is reporters out in the field"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":574.9300000000001,"endTime":578.44,"body":"bearing witness to something"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":574.9300000000001,"endTime":578.44,"body":"happening in the world."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":579.0300000000001,"endTime":581.6700000000001,"body":"And they come back and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":579.0300000000001,"endTime":581.6700000000001,"body":"there's a rigorous process"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":582.11,"endTime":587.12,"body":"that takes that reporting and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":582.11,"endTime":587.12,"body":"puts it into a story that's"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":587.25,"endTime":590.9300000000001,"body":"credible, that's accurate,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":587.25,"endTime":590.9300000000001,"body":"that reflects the realities"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":590.9300000000001,"endTime":591.9000000000001,"body":"of what really happened."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":592.3900000000001,"endTime":595.9350000000001,"body":"And those are the real"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":592.3900000000001,"endTime":595.9350000000001,"body":"intangibles that go behind"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":595.945,"endTime":597.595,"body":"stories that we publish."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":598.1450000000001,"endTime":600.4250000000001,"body":"I bring that up because as my"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":598.1450000000001,"endTime":600.4250000000001,"body":"team, as we do our work and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":600.4250000000001,"endTime":603.595,"body":"we think about automation,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":600.4250000000001,"endTime":603.595,"body":"we try to focus on how can"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":603.595,"endTime":606.565,"body":"we protect that kind of work"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":603.595,"endTime":606.565,"body":"because that is uniquely human."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":606.815,"endTime":608.594,"body":"And then what are the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":606.815,"endTime":608.594,"body":"aspects of the job that"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":609.0150000000001,"endTime":613.225,"body":"really are not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":609.0150000000001,"endTime":613.225,"body":"worth the time that live"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":613.225,"endTime":614.6850000000001,"body":"outside of that kind of work?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":614.855,"endTime":617.7750000000001,"body":"Manual data entry, steps you"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":614.855,"endTime":617.7750000000001,"body":"have to take to complete a"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":617.7750000000001,"endTime":621.0150000000001,"body":"task, all this stuff that, we"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":617.7750000000001,"endTime":621.0150000000001,"body":"all have to do, and how can we"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":621.0150000000001,"endTime":624.565,"body":"automate those while retaining"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":621.0150000000001,"endTime":624.565,"body":"the real magic and the real joy?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":624.975,"endTime":627.5550000000001,"body":"What motivates people to"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":624.975,"endTime":627.5550000000001,"body":"come to work every day?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":627.565,"endTime":629.7040000000001,"body":"What got them into"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":627.565,"endTime":629.7040000000001,"body":"the profession that"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":629.7040000000001,"endTime":631.2040000000001,"body":"they're in any industry?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":631.484,"endTime":632.8050000000001,"body":"What gets them out"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":631.484,"endTime":632.8050000000001,"body":"of bed every day?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":633.2850000000001,"endTime":637.745,"body":"And how can we really try to"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":633.2850000000001,"endTime":637.745,"body":"protect those parts of the job"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":637.9150000000001,"endTime":641.605,"body":"while making sure we're taking"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":637.9150000000001,"endTime":641.605,"body":"advantage of the incredible"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":641.625,"endTime":644.065,"body":"technology that can automate"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":641.625,"endTime":644.065,"body":"and make our lives easier?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":644.5050000000001,"endTime":647.2750000000001,"body":"And so my team, we're very"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":644.5050000000001,"endTime":647.2750000000001,"body":"much human-centered in that we"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":647.565,"endTime":650.1450000000001,"body":"ask those kinds of questions"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":647.565,"endTime":650.1450000000001,"body":"as we're rolling out a new"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":650.1450000000001,"endTime":653.105,"body":"technology or initiative,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":650.1450000000001,"endTime":653.105,"body":"which is really making sure"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":653.105,"endTime":656.7850000000001,"body":"that we're protecting the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":653.105,"endTime":656.7850000000001,"body":"parts of the job that are core"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":656.8050000000001,"endTime":659.6450000000001,"body":"to the profession and also"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":656.8050000000001,"endTime":659.6450000000001,"body":"what really motivates people."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":659.9540000000001,"endTime":661.8950000000001,"body":"So there's"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":659.9540000000001,"endTime":661.8950000000001,"body":"operational demands with"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":661.8950000000001,"endTime":664.585,"body":"every role, just part of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":661.8950000000001,"endTime":664.585,"body":"what you have to plug into."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":664.585,"endTime":666.065,"body":"And it's just part"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":664.585,"endTime":666.065,"body":"of our work, right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":666.085,"endTime":667.835,"body":"So part of me thinks"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":666.085,"endTime":667.835,"body":"I don't think that'll"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":667.835,"endTime":669.1650000000001,"body":"ever go away entirely."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":669.5550000000001,"endTime":671.3240000000001,"body":"But one of the things I know"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":669.5550000000001,"endTime":671.3240000000001,"body":"that you've mentioned is"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":671.345,"endTime":674.625,"body":"that, if you're successful at"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":671.345,"endTime":674.625,"body":"innovating, this will lead to"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":674.6350000000001,"endTime":676.4050000000001,"body":"more work to manage, right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":676.8850000000001,"endTime":678.4050000000001,"body":"There's no innovation finality."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":678.4250000000001,"endTime":679.625,"body":"That's sort of the nature of it."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":680.1350000000001,"endTime":683.364,"body":"Talk to us about cause I think"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":680.1350000000001,"endTime":683.364,"body":"maybe creating a balance and a"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":683.364,"endTime":685.884,"body":"pace for people's operational"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":683.364,"endTime":685.884,"body":"work so that they can have"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":685.894,"endTime":690.004,"body":"time to innovate, is that kind"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":685.894,"endTime":690.004,"body":"of the art of management now?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":690.724,"endTime":693.504,"body":"I think it's a"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":690.724,"endTime":693.504,"body":"big part of management because"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":693.8140000000001,"endTime":697.494,"body":"while we encourage people to"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":693.8140000000001,"endTime":697.494,"body":"experiment, to innovate, which"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":697.494,"endTime":700.0840000000001,"body":"we need to, right, we need to"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":697.494,"endTime":700.0840000000001,"body":"create a culture where people"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":700.0840000000001,"endTime":703.8340000000001,"body":"are thinking about new ways to"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":700.0840000000001,"endTime":703.8340000000001,"body":"approach their work, looking"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":703.8340000000001,"endTime":706.5640000000001,"body":"at new tools and new technology"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":703.8340000000001,"endTime":706.5640000000001,"body":"that can really improve it."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":706.984,"endTime":710.0540000000001,"body":"And I came across this in my"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":706.984,"endTime":710.0540000000001,"body":"work, this paradox where, as"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":710.0540000000001,"endTime":713.014,"body":"you mentioned, as you encourage"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":710.0540000000001,"endTime":713.014,"body":"more of that, people start"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":713.014,"endTime":715.6640000000001,"body":"inventing new things, they"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":713.014,"endTime":715.6640000000001,"body":"start experimenting more,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":715.6740000000001,"endTime":719.4340000000001,"body":"those experiments turn into"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":715.6740000000001,"endTime":719.4340000000001,"body":"great ideas that get launched"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":719.4340000000001,"endTime":722.474,"body":"and get implemented and have"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":719.4340000000001,"endTime":722.474,"body":"a little bit less time and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":722.474,"endTime":726.354,"body":"attention to focus on future"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":722.474,"endTime":726.354,"body":"experimentation and innovation."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":726.989,"endTime":730.989,"body":"You go through that cycle again,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":726.989,"endTime":730.989,"body":"after a little while, now you've"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":730.999,"endTime":733.839,"body":"got all of these new things"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":730.999,"endTime":733.839,"body":"that you've implemented and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":733.839,"endTime":738.4390000000001,"body":"launched, and no one has time"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":733.839,"endTime":738.4390000000001,"body":"to experiment and innovate."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":738.469,"endTime":741.9290000000001,"body":"And so in a way that the culture"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":738.469,"endTime":741.9290000000001,"body":"that you're really trying to"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":741.9490000000001,"endTime":746.589,"body":"create could, in some instances,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":741.9490000000001,"endTime":746.589,"body":"make it harder to retain"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":746.589,"endTime":747.6990000000001,"body":"that culture and sustain it."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":748.0390000000001,"endTime":752.239,"body":"This has happened to me, I've"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":748.0390000000001,"endTime":752.239,"body":"found this in places where I've"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":752.239,"endTime":754.8190000000001,"body":"got this really exciting new"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":752.239,"endTime":754.8190000000001,"body":"tool, and I go out and I talk"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":754.8190000000001,"endTime":758.499,"body":"to people and our journalists"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":754.8190000000001,"endTime":758.499,"body":"at The New York Times are very"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":758.519,"endTime":759.6990000000001,"body":"eager to learn new things."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":759.739,"endTime":764.099,"body":"But if they are spread way"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":759.739,"endTime":764.099,"body":"too thin across lots of tools,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":764.149,"endTime":767.9290000000001,"body":"processes, tasks, even if they"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":764.149,"endTime":767.9290000000001,"body":"want to learn something, it's"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":767.9290000000001,"endTime":770.0790000000001,"body":"going to be really difficult"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":767.9290000000001,"endTime":770.0790000000001,"body":"for them to do that, to even"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":770.089,"endTime":771.969,"body":"have the attention and the time."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":772.499,"endTime":776.149,"body":"And so I really do think, as you"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":772.499,"endTime":776.149,"body":"said, David, that this is a big"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":776.1590000000001,"endTime":780.4490000000001,"body":"part of management in the modern"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":776.1590000000001,"endTime":780.4490000000001,"body":"workplace, which is tending to"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":780.4490000000001,"endTime":784.499,"body":"this balance of figuring out"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":780.4490000000001,"endTime":784.499,"body":"innovation just isn't about"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":784.509,"endTime":787.1690000000001,"body":"launching the new things and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":784.509,"endTime":787.1690000000001,"body":"finding the new things, but"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":787.1690000000001,"endTime":789.129,"body":"it's about the back end of that."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":789.1590000000001,"endTime":794.359,"body":"And what are the ways in which"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":789.1590000000001,"endTime":794.359,"body":"we can cut back on existing"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":794.379,"endTime":797.0790000000001,"body":"processes and tools that are no"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":794.379,"endTime":797.0790000000001,"body":"longer working and what are the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":797.0790000000001,"endTime":800.009,"body":"ways we can continue to make"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":797.0790000000001,"endTime":800.009,"body":"space so that you sustain this"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":800.0290000000001,"endTime":801.4390000000001,"body":"culture over the long term."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":802.099,"endTime":803.6790000000001,"body":"This next"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":802.099,"endTime":803.6790000000001,"body":"question, maybe a bit of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":803.869,"endTime":804.989,"body":"existential in nature."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":804.989,"endTime":808.619,"body":"I don't want to turn managers"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":804.989,"endTime":808.619,"body":"into sort of psychologists or"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":808.619,"endTime":810.989,"body":"detectives, but I'm curious"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":808.619,"endTime":810.989,"body":"about something related to"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":810.989,"endTime":814.009,"body":"the tools themselves and"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":810.989,"endTime":814.009,"body":"how they impact innovation."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":814.4590000000001,"endTime":815.7790000000001,"body":"Last year, I wrote an article."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":815.7890000000001,"endTime":818.8190000000001,"body":"It was about the impact"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":815.7890000000001,"endTime":818.8190000000001,"body":"of technology like AI on"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":818.8190000000001,"endTime":822.6690000000001,"body":"our brains and sort of the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":818.8190000000001,"endTime":822.6690000000001,"body":"long term impact of that."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":822.6690000000001,"endTime":825.0390000000001,"body":"And given that it can think"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":822.6690000000001,"endTime":825.0390000000001,"body":"faster than we can really,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":825.0390000000001,"endTime":828.9590000000001,"body":"and in many ways is likely"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":825.0390000000001,"endTime":828.9590000000001,"body":"to impact or have some real"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":828.979,"endTime":831.1890000000001,"body":"cost to certain abilities"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":828.979,"endTime":831.1890000000001,"body":"that we have right now,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":831.219,"endTime":833.6790000000001,"body":"particularly around creative"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":831.219,"endTime":833.6790000000001,"body":"and analytical thinking."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":833.6890000000001,"endTime":833.999,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":834.5390000000001,"endTime":837.104,"body":"So when it comes to"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":834.5390000000001,"endTime":837.104,"body":"innovation, I'm curious, is"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":837.104,"endTime":839.884,"body":"the use of these tools not"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":837.104,"endTime":839.884,"body":"somewhat counterproductive"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":839.884,"endTime":840.7940000000001,"body":"to our end goal?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":840.854,"endTime":844.024,"body":"Isn't innovation kind of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":840.854,"endTime":844.024,"body":"supposed to be a little bit"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":844.024,"endTime":846.5740000000001,"body":"of a struggle and out of those"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":844.024,"endTime":846.5740000000001,"body":"struggles is where we tend to"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":846.5740000000001,"endTime":848.0440000000001,"body":"come up with our best ideas?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":848.374,"endTime":850.9140000000001,"body":"And do we lose something"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":848.374,"endTime":850.9140000000001,"body":"the more we automate and"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":850.9340000000001,"endTime":852.4040000000001,"body":"tie tools into everything?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":853.1740000000001,"endTime":855.394,"body":"I think about"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":853.1740000000001,"endTime":855.394,"body":"this whenever that little"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":855.494,"endTime":857.9340000000001,"body":"prompt pops up in my email"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":855.494,"endTime":857.9340000000001,"body":"that says, would you like me"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":857.9340000000001,"endTime":859.124,"body":"to write this email for you?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":859.354,"endTime":863.474,"body":"And it's interesting because"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":859.354,"endTime":863.474,"body":"there are certain things"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":863.474,"endTime":866.989,"body":"that just speaking about me"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":863.474,"endTime":866.989,"body":"personally, that I do enjoy"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":867.0290000000001,"endTime":870.649,"body":"doing and I do enjoy something"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":867.0290000000001,"endTime":870.649,"body":"like writing, not something I"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":870.649,"endTime":871.8090000000001,"body":"want to necessarily give up."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":872.259,"endTime":875.9090000000001,"body":"I also think that there is"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":872.259,"endTime":875.9090000000001,"body":"some truth to what you're"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":875.9090000000001,"endTime":881.099,"body":"saying about aspects of"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":875.9090000000001,"endTime":881.099,"body":"work that require a little"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":881.099,"endTime":883.629,"body":"bit of struggle and require"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":881.099,"endTime":883.629,"body":"a little bit of thinking."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":884.139,"endTime":887.089,"body":"And going back to what I"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":884.139,"endTime":887.089,"body":"was saying before, really"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":887.089,"endTime":890.4390000000001,"body":"get to the motivations of"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":887.089,"endTime":890.4390000000001,"body":"what people like to do."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":891.639,"endTime":896.839,"body":"Writer who working on a story"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":891.639,"endTime":896.839,"body":"is going to really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":896.869,"endTime":899.989,"body":"the struggle of getting from"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":896.869,"endTime":899.989,"body":"the bad version of that story"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":899.989,"endTime":901.009,"body":"to the really great one."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":901.009,"endTime":903.349,"body":"And that process is what,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":901.009,"endTime":903.349,"body":"not just what makes the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":903.349,"endTime":905.8090000000001,"body":"story better, but what"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":903.349,"endTime":905.8090000000001,"body":"makes them enjoy the work."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":906.219,"endTime":910.2890000000001,"body":"So, I do think that there is"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":906.219,"endTime":910.2890000000001,"body":"something that leaders need"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":910.2890000000001,"endTime":914.349,"body":"to do to figure out what are"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":910.2890000000001,"endTime":914.349,"body":"the parts of the job that,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":914.759,"endTime":918.889,"body":"where that struggle, that"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":914.759,"endTime":918.889,"body":"creative thinking you want to"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":918.899,"endTime":922.0390000000001,"body":"retain and actually you don't"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":918.899,"endTime":922.0390000000001,"body":"want to try that shortcut."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":922.879,"endTime":927.359,"body":"There is this very well known"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":922.879,"endTime":927.359,"body":"study called the IKEA effect,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":927.479,"endTime":928.979,"body":"which, it's very well known."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":928.979,"endTime":929.839,"body":"It's all about how."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":930.269,"endTime":934.4290000000001,"body":"When we build things on our own,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":930.269,"endTime":934.4290000000001,"body":"we tend to value them much more."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":934.649,"endTime":938.3190000000001,"body":"And so I think looking at the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":934.649,"endTime":938.3190000000001,"body":"IKEA effect is a way to look"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":938.3190000000001,"endTime":941.399,"body":"at your workplace and say,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":938.3190000000001,"endTime":941.399,"body":"what are the things that people"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":941.4090000000001,"endTime":945.4590000000001,"body":"build here that they're going"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":941.4090000000001,"endTime":945.4590000000001,"body":"to really value that we don't"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":945.469,"endTime":946.989,"body":"necessarily want shortcut."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":947.3290000000001,"endTime":950.7090000000001,"body":"Whether it's the designer who"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":947.3290000000001,"endTime":950.7090000000001,"body":"really loves the space with"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":950.729,"endTime":954.2890000000001,"body":"the whiteboard and they're"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":950.729,"endTime":954.2890000000001,"body":"thinking through how to improve"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":954.2890000000001,"endTime":957.9590000000001,"body":"the experience for users"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":954.2890000000001,"endTime":957.9590000000001,"body":"or the sales person who's"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":958.5790000000001,"endTime":961.4390000000001,"body":"likes to go out and talk to"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":958.5790000000001,"endTime":961.4390000000001,"body":"people and have one-on-one"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":961.4590000000001,"endTime":963.139,"body":"conversations with folks."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":963.739,"endTime":966.62,"body":"It's a fascinating question"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":963.739,"endTime":966.62,"body":"that I think is worth posing."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":966.62,"endTime":969.5400000000001,"body":"And I think one way to go about"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":966.62,"endTime":969.5400000000001,"body":"it is just to ask that question."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":969.5400000000001,"endTime":972.44,"body":"And you ask that as you"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":969.5400000000001,"endTime":972.44,"body":"encounter these automation"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":972.44,"endTime":974.6800000000001,"body":"and these new tools that"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":972.44,"endTime":974.6800000000001,"body":"can potentially shortcut"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":974.739,"endTime":975.7700000000001,"body":"to create process."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":976.24,"endTime":978.6690000000001,"body":"As you go through,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":976.24,"endTime":978.6690000000001,"body":"this process of innovating and"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":978.6700000000001,"endTime":981.0600000000001,"body":"collaborating in any creative"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":978.6700000000001,"endTime":981.0600000000001,"body":"process that you're tracking,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":981.0600000000001,"endTime":984.0300000000001,"body":"you end up creating what you"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":981.0600000000001,"endTime":984.0300000000001,"body":"refer to as process debt."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":984.2700000000001,"endTime":984.99,"body":"I like this term."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":985.3900000000001,"endTime":987.57,"body":"Which is essentially time"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":985.3900000000001,"endTime":987.57,"body":"committed to performing"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":987.57,"endTime":990.22,"body":"process-oriented tasks that"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":987.57,"endTime":990.22,"body":"could have otherwise been"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":990.25,"endTime":991.4200000000001,"body":"used for innovation, right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":991.8000000000001,"endTime":996.1800000000001,"body":"So take us through how we"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":991.8000000000001,"endTime":996.1800000000001,"body":"better manage this debt and"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":996.1800000000001,"endTime":998.5100000000001,"body":"not let it build up to the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":996.1800000000001,"endTime":998.5100000000001,"body":"point that it essentially kind"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":998.5100000000001,"endTime":999.739,"body":"of cripples our creativity."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1000.019,"endTime":1001.6400000000001,"body":"Process"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1000.019,"endTime":1001.6400000000001,"body":"debt is inevitable."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1002.0400000000001,"endTime":1004.58,"body":"And I think that's the first"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1002.0400000000001,"endTime":1004.58,"body":"thing for people to realize"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1004.61,"endTime":1006.7900000000001,"body":"is that there's no way that"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1004.61,"endTime":1006.7900000000001,"body":"you're going to avoid it."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1006.83,"endTime":1010.82,"body":"The strategy is not to try"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1006.83,"endTime":1010.82,"body":"to avoid process debt, but"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1010.82,"endTime":1014.0600000000001,"body":"rather to come to terms"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1010.82,"endTime":1014.0600000000001,"body":"with it and to manage it."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1014.61,"endTime":1018.7600000000001,"body":"Because I don't think anyone"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1014.61,"endTime":1018.7600000000001,"body":"would argue that every process"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1018.7600000000001,"endTime":1020.6500000000001,"body":"they implement is correct."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1021.1400000000001,"endTime":1024.24,"body":"There's going to be flaws in"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1021.1400000000001,"endTime":1024.24,"body":"workflows that we implement"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1024.24,"endTime":1027.19,"body":"and steps that we put into"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1024.24,"endTime":1027.19,"body":"place and policies that"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1027.19,"endTime":1028.17,"body":"we make people follow."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1028.65,"endTime":1030.439,"body":"And so that's the first"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1028.65,"endTime":1030.439,"body":"thing is coming to terms"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1030.44,"endTime":1033.85,"body":"with, we're going to put"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1030.44,"endTime":1033.85,"body":"in processes that are not"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1033.85,"endTime":1036.55,"body":"going to be ideal, that are"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1033.85,"endTime":1036.55,"body":"going to waste people's time."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1036.93,"endTime":1039.019,"body":"And you're sometimes not"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1036.93,"endTime":1039.019,"body":"going to realize that"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1039.019,"endTime":1039.599,"body":"until you've done it."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1039.609,"endTime":1042.37,"body":"And you can look at it"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1039.609,"endTime":1042.37,"body":"and say, this is not maybe"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1042.37,"endTime":1043.1,"body":"the best way to do it."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1043.49,"endTime":1047.48,"body":"The second thing is that you"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1043.49,"endTime":1047.48,"body":"can put it in a process that"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1047.48,"endTime":1049.66,"body":"just outlives its purpose."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1050.1000000000001,"endTime":1053.26,"body":"The New York Times has been"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1050.1000000000001,"endTime":1053.26,"body":"around for over 170 years."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1053.66,"endTime":1056.75,"body":"There are many traditions and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1053.66,"endTime":1056.75,"body":"policies and processes that"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1057.25,"endTime":1060.4,"body":"went away at some point because"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1057.25,"endTime":1060.4,"body":"they outlived their purpose."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1060.8200000000002,"endTime":1064.91,"body":"And so there has to be a"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1060.8200000000002,"endTime":1064.91,"body":"realization that something"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1064.91,"endTime":1068.28,"body":"that someone put in a few"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1064.91,"endTime":1068.28,"body":"years ago may or may not be"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1068.579,"endTime":1071.819,"body":"useful now and may actually be"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1068.579,"endTime":1071.819,"body":"taking away valuable time and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1071.819,"endTime":1074.699,"body":"attention that people could"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1071.819,"endTime":1074.699,"body":"be using for innovation and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1074.699,"endTime":1075.919,"body":"creative time and invention."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1076.339,"endTime":1079.6090000000002,"body":"I really like the way in which"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1076.339,"endTime":1079.6090000000002,"body":"a couple of organizations"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1079.6090000000002,"endTime":1081.159,"body":"have gone about this."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1081.429,"endTime":1085.72,"body":"Roblox has something called"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1081.429,"endTime":1085.72,"body":"\"bureaucracy busters\", which"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1085.75,"endTime":1089.17,"body":"is this internal tool that"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1085.75,"endTime":1089.17,"body":"they use where anyone in"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1089.17,"endTime":1094.1100000000001,"body":"the organization can submit"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1089.17,"endTime":1094.1100000000001,"body":"a process that is broken,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1094.16,"endTime":1095.1000000000001,"body":"that they feel is broken."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1095.53,"endTime":1099.16,"body":"And then other workers can come"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1095.53,"endTime":1099.16,"body":"in and upload that just like"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1099.16,"endTime":1100.3300000000002,"body":"they're on Reddit or something."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1100.8200000000002,"endTime":1104.78,"body":"And the submissions that"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1100.8200000000002,"endTime":1104.78,"body":"get the highest upvotes will"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1104.78,"endTime":1107.159,"body":"surface up to leadership and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1104.78,"endTime":1107.159,"body":"then leadership will take a"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1107.159,"endTime":1110.0,"body":"hard look at those and say,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1107.159,"endTime":1110.0,"body":"Oh, Maybe we shouldn't be"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1110.0,"endTime":1113.24,"body":"doing it this way, maybe these"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1110.0,"endTime":1113.24,"body":"approval process that requires"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1113.25,"endTime":1116.24,"body":"someone to go to five different"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1113.25,"endTime":1116.24,"body":"people to get something"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1116.63,"endTime":1118.71,"body":"approved is wasting their time."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1119.1000000000001,"endTime":1123.3690000000001,"body":"And Capital One has a similar"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1119.1000000000001,"endTime":1123.3690000000001,"body":"tool called 'Clearing the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1123.3690000000001,"endTime":1127.169,"body":"Way' and similarly people"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1123.3690000000001,"endTime":1127.169,"body":"can go in and vote, not vote."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1127.645,"endTime":1129.825,"body":"I love this approach because"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1127.645,"endTime":1129.825,"body":"it really opens it up and it"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1129.825,"endTime":1133.7350000000001,"body":"also signals to the workplace"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1129.825,"endTime":1133.7350000000001,"body":"that we actually don't want"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1133.7350000000001,"endTime":1136.624,"body":"you wasting your time, but we"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1133.7350000000001,"endTime":1136.624,"body":"can't see everything that you're"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1136.625,"endTime":1139.175,"body":"doing, and we can't see all the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1136.625,"endTime":1139.175,"body":"parts of it that are broken."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1139.175,"endTime":1140.545,"body":"So we want to hear from you."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1141.125,"endTime":1143.4840000000002,"body":"These tools sound really"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1141.125,"endTime":1143.4840000000002,"body":"interesting that Roblox and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1143.4840000000002,"endTime":1146.064,"body":"Capital One have created, but"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1143.4840000000002,"endTime":1146.064,"body":"you could do this with a very"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1146.065,"endTime":1150.54,"body":"simple survey that you send out"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1146.065,"endTime":1150.54,"body":"every month, every quarter, or"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1150.54,"endTime":1153.55,"body":"just an email that says, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1150.54,"endTime":1153.55,"body":"is there a process out there"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1153.55,"endTime":1154.72,"body":"that you want to take away?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1154.72,"endTime":1155.469,"body":"I just sent it here."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1155.47,"endTime":1158.21,"body":"So there's lots of sort"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1155.47,"endTime":1158.21,"body":"of low production ways"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1158.229,"endTime":1160.409,"body":"in which you could spin"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1158.229,"endTime":1160.409,"body":"this up, very quickly."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1160.75,"endTime":1161.93,"body":"Bureaucracy busters."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1161.93,"endTime":1162.499,"body":"I like that."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1162.5,"endTime":1163.679,"body":"I used to work in higher ed."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1163.689,"endTime":1164.659,"body":"I would have killed for that."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1164.95,"endTime":1166.54,"body":"You wrote a piece for"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1164.95,"endTime":1166.54,"body":"the Harvard Business"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1166.54,"endTime":1167.44,"body":"Review that I enjoyed."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1167.44,"endTime":1169.31,"body":"And in it, one of the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1167.44,"endTime":1169.31,"body":"things that you talk"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1169.3200000000002,"endTime":1172.17,"body":"about is separating"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1169.3200000000002,"endTime":1172.17,"body":"invention and optimization."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1172.56,"endTime":1175.68,"body":"Understanding that that"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1172.56,"endTime":1175.68,"body":"zero to one invention work"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1175.69,"endTime":1178.3,"body":"outside of growth and revenue"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1175.69,"endTime":1178.3,"body":"ambitions that you might have"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1178.31,"endTime":1181.31,"body":"for a business and leaving"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1178.31,"endTime":1181.31,"body":"as much space as you can for"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1181.31,"endTime":1184.969,"body":"that work that is sort of the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1181.31,"endTime":1184.969,"body":"one to ten optimization work."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1184.99,"endTime":1186.5900000000001,"body":"That can be a little bit"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1184.99,"endTime":1186.5900000000001,"body":"of a challenge, right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1186.91,"endTime":1188.929,"body":"So what do you say"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1186.91,"endTime":1188.929,"body":"to leaders that their"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1188.93,"endTime":1190.4,"body":"focus is out of balance?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1191.04,"endTime":1191.3700000000001,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1191.3700000000001,"endTime":1196.71,"body":"This was an idea that I love"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1191.3700000000001,"endTime":1196.71,"body":"that I heard from someone"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1196.71,"endTime":1201.19,"body":"named Marco Zappacosta, who's"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1196.71,"endTime":1201.19,"body":"the CEO and co-founder of a"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1201.19,"endTime":1205.3200000000002,"body":"company called Thumbtack, which"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1201.19,"endTime":1205.3200000000002,"body":"is a home repair marketplace."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1205.75,"endTime":1210.0800000000002,"body":"And what Marco talked"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1205.75,"endTime":1210.0800000000002,"body":"about was these two types"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1210.0800000000002,"endTime":1212.99,"body":"of work that need to"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1210.0800000000002,"endTime":1212.99,"body":"sort of live in different"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1212.99,"endTime":1214.3400000000001,"body":"ways in your workplace."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1214.3600000000001,"endTime":1217.3500000000001,"body":"And he gave this great"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1214.3600000000001,"endTime":1217.3500000000001,"body":"example where nowadays"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1217.3500000000001,"endTime":1219.8,"body":"we have this really great"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1217.3500000000001,"endTime":1219.8,"body":"thing in that we have data"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1219.8690000000001,"endTime":1221.3200000000002,"body":"on virtually everything."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1221.449,"endTime":1222.51,"body":"And it's a real blessing."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1222.51,"endTime":1226.3400000000001,"body":"We can build our organization"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1222.51,"endTime":1226.3400000000001,"body":"and our business around data."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1226.38,"endTime":1230.31,"body":"We can set goals, we can track"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1226.38,"endTime":1230.31,"body":"our progress towards those"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1230.31,"endTime":1232.49,"body":"goals, and it's very useful."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1233.02,"endTime":1236.1100000000001,"body":"But in some instances, it"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1233.02,"endTime":1236.1100000000001,"body":"can actually also be a curse."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1236.8300000000002,"endTime":1239.3500000000001,"body":"And the places where it"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1236.8300000000002,"endTime":1239.3500000000001,"body":"could be a curse is when you"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1239.3500000000001,"endTime":1243.14,"body":"actually don't want people"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1239.3500000000001,"endTime":1243.14,"body":"fixated on the measurements."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1243.14,"endTime":1248.179,"body":"You want them to be untethered"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1243.14,"endTime":1248.179,"body":"from the data and untethered"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1248.2,"endTime":1252.94,"body":"from the goals so that they can"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1248.2,"endTime":1252.94,"body":"be creative and create something"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1252.949,"endTime":1253.959,"body":"and invent something new."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1254.41,"endTime":1259.64,"body":"So Marco told this story about"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1254.41,"endTime":1259.64,"body":"his company in which they were"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1260.01,"endTime":1263.79,"body":"trying to sort of reinvent the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1260.01,"endTime":1263.79,"body":"way that their business is run."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1264.449,"endTime":1267.91,"body":"And their initial take at"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1264.449,"endTime":1267.91,"body":"this was very data-driven"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1268.035,"endTime":1271.2450000000001,"body":"and operational in which"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1268.035,"endTime":1271.2450000000001,"body":"the team was trying to"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1271.2450000000001,"endTime":1272.375,"body":"hit certain targets."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1273.085,"endTime":1276.334,"body":"And what Marco said was,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1273.085,"endTime":1276.334,"body":"it's not that the work was"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1276.375,"endTime":1280.375,"body":"unsuccessful, but it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1276.375,"endTime":1280.375,"body":"as imaginative and outside"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1280.375,"endTime":1281.545,"body":"of the box as he hoped."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1281.915,"endTime":1285.375,"body":"So then he told the team, he"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1281.915,"endTime":1285.375,"body":"said, okay, actually forget"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1285.814,"endTime":1288.424,"body":"for a minute the data and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1285.814,"endTime":1288.424,"body":"the operation, the goals."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1288.9850000000001,"endTime":1291.565,"body":"And we're just going to give"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1288.9850000000001,"endTime":1291.565,"body":"you a hypothesis and we're"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1291.565,"endTime":1292.645,"body":"going to give you a milestone."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1293.185,"endTime":1296.605,"body":"Go off to the side with"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1293.185,"endTime":1296.605,"body":"that hypothesis and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1296.625,"endTime":1297.905,"body":"build towards that."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1297.914,"endTime":1299.9750000000001,"body":"Think about that as you're"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1297.914,"endTime":1299.9750000000001,"body":"building this new product."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1300.414,"endTime":1304.525,"body":"And what Marco said is that this"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1300.414,"endTime":1304.525,"body":"really liberated the team to"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1304.605,"endTime":1308.295,"body":"think creatively and they were"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1304.605,"endTime":1308.295,"body":"able to build something that was"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1308.315,"endTime":1313.395,"body":"truly different and very much"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1308.315,"endTime":1313.395,"body":"in service of the customers."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1313.845,"endTime":1317.7450000000001,"body":"And it's a bit counterintuitive"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1313.845,"endTime":1317.7450000000001,"body":"because we have this"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1317.765,"endTime":1321.405,"body":"access to all this data and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1317.765,"endTime":1321.405,"body":"because we are so oftentimes"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1321.7050000000002,"endTime":1326.125,"body":"operationally driven, that"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1321.7050000000002,"endTime":1326.125,"body":"it can be easy to fall into"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1326.125,"endTime":1328.005,"body":"that and to fixate on that."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1328.555,"endTime":1330.814,"body":"The idea behind these two"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1328.555,"endTime":1330.814,"body":"types of work is when you're"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1330.814,"endTime":1333.2150000000001,"body":"inventing something new, you're"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1330.814,"endTime":1333.2150000000001,"body":"trying to create something new."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1333.4550000000002,"endTime":1336.4950000000001,"body":"That's maybe a moment to break"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1333.4550000000002,"endTime":1336.4950000000001,"body":"away from the operational work."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1336.935,"endTime":1339.015,"body":"Whereas the day to day tasks,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1336.935,"endTime":1339.015,"body":"that's where you really"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1339.015,"endTime":1341.035,"body":"want people thinking about"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1339.015,"endTime":1341.035,"body":"the goals and the data."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1341.505,"endTime":1345.48,"body":"My team thinks about this a lot"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1341.505,"endTime":1345.48,"body":"with our journalists and timing."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1346.1100000000001,"endTime":1348.3300000000002,"body":"There are certain moments"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1346.1100000000001,"endTime":1348.3300000000002,"body":"in a newsroom where people"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1348.3300000000002,"endTime":1349.8400000000001,"body":"just aren't going to be"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1348.3300000000002,"endTime":1349.8400000000001,"body":"able to learn something new."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1350.3300000000002,"endTime":1352.99,"body":"Their brains are going to"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1350.3300000000002,"endTime":1352.99,"body":"be focused on covering the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1352.99,"endTime":1357.15,"body":"election or the big breaking"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1352.99,"endTime":1357.15,"body":"news that's happening."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1357.71,"endTime":1359.339,"body":"Those are not the moments"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1357.71,"endTime":1359.339,"body":"where they're going to be"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1359.3400000000001,"endTime":1362.44,"body":"able to step back and think"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1359.3400000000001,"endTime":1362.44,"body":"differently about their work."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1362.93,"endTime":1365.8300000000002,"body":"And so we really try to navigate"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1362.93,"endTime":1365.8300000000002,"body":"that and find the places where"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1366.3600000000001,"endTime":1370.13,"body":"Hey, this is maybe a relatively"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1366.3600000000001,"endTime":1370.13,"body":"calm period where we can come"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1370.13,"endTime":1373.39,"body":"in and we can talk about some"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1370.13,"endTime":1373.39,"body":"new tool or way of working."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1373.8500000000001,"endTime":1375.469,"body":"Well, we're"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1373.8500000000001,"endTime":1375.469,"body":"getting close to time."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1375.469,"endTime":1377.8690000000001,"body":"So I want to give you a chance"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1375.469,"endTime":1377.8690000000001,"body":"to, give you a chance to tell"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1377.8700000000001,"endTime":1379.92,"body":"people about where they can"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1377.8700000000001,"endTime":1379.92,"body":"connect with you and find"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1379.92,"endTime":1381.81,"body":"out about more about what"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1379.92,"endTime":1381.81,"body":"you have going on when the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1381.81,"endTime":1383.21,"body":"book comes out, all that."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1383.669,"endTime":1386.909,"body":"I have a Substack"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1383.669,"endTime":1386.909,"body":"and if you sign up for it,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1386.909,"endTime":1391.249,"body":"you'll get weekly tips and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1386.909,"endTime":1391.249,"body":"essays on the onslaught of"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1391.249,"endTime":1394.959,"body":"new things, how to manage new"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1391.249,"endTime":1394.959,"body":"things in your life and at work."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1395.3300000000002,"endTime":1398.56,"body":"What are the psychological"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1395.3300000000002,"endTime":1398.56,"body":"forces that are at play when"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1398.56,"endTime":1400.8,"body":"we're encountering new things?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1401.18,"endTime":1404.309,"body":"And how can you take a break and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1401.18,"endTime":1404.309,"body":"disconnect from time to time?"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1404.5990000000002,"endTime":1408.01,"body":"And much of what you'll"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1404.5990000000002,"endTime":1408.01,"body":"find there is drawn from the"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1408.1200000000001,"endTime":1411.27,"body":"reporting and research that"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1408.1200000000001,"endTime":1411.27,"body":"I'm doing for the book, as"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1411.27,"endTime":1414.1290000000001,"body":"well as updates on the book"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1411.27,"endTime":1414.1290000000001,"body":"and future news about that."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1414.14,"endTime":1417.8600000000001,"body":"So it is just my name,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1414.14,"endTime":1417.8600000000001,"body":"EricAthas.substack.com."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1419.21,"endTime":1421.95,"body":"And we'd love anyone"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1419.21,"endTime":1421.95,"body":"who's interested to join"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1421.95,"endTime":1422.56,"body":"in the conversation."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1423.03,"endTime":1423.38,"body":"Excellent."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1423.39,"endTime":1424.16,"body":"I love this topic."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1424.16,"endTime":1426.72,"body":"I think this couldn't be"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1424.16,"endTime":1426.72,"body":"more important right now."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1427.04,"endTime":1428.489,"body":"There's just so much"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1427.04,"endTime":1428.489,"body":"fatigue going on."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1428.49,"endTime":1430.949,"body":"And people are, I've talked"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1428.49,"endTime":1430.949,"body":"to a lot of people who are"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1430.95,"endTime":1434.89,"body":"trying to cut back on how much"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1430.95,"endTime":1434.89,"body":"of this sort of like new stuff"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1434.94,"endTime":1437.8690000000001,"body":"they're bringing in, because"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1434.94,"endTime":1437.8690000000001,"body":"it leads to sort of fatigue."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1437.93,"endTime":1441.3600000000001,"body":"We've heard of app fatigue,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1437.93,"endTime":1441.3600000000001,"body":"but I think there's an overall"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1441.3600000000001,"endTime":1444.645,"body":"fatigue of just different"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1441.3600000000001,"endTime":1444.645,"body":"tools and things that we're"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1444.665,"endTime":1445.7150000000001,"body":"having to use all the time."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1445.7150000000001,"endTime":1446.765,"body":"So I think this is awesome."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1447.045,"endTime":1447.9650000000001,"body":"Really great topic."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1448.4950000000001,"endTime":1450.825,"body":"So the last thing is, we"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1448.4950000000001,"endTime":1450.825,"body":"have a little tradition here"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1450.825,"endTime":1452.835,"body":"on the podcast where you"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1450.825,"endTime":1452.835,"body":"get to ask me a question."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1453.015,"endTime":1454.145,"body":"So I want to turn"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1453.015,"endTime":1454.145,"body":"it over to you."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1454.2050000000002,"endTime":1455.165,"body":"Ask me anything you want."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1455.165,"endTime":1456.2250000000001,"body":"Could be related to this."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1456.2250000000001,"endTime":1456.9450000000002,"body":"Doesn't have to be."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1457.315,"endTime":1460.7350000000001,"body":"We've been talking"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1457.315,"endTime":1460.7350000000001,"body":"today about new things that"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1460.765,"endTime":1463.755,"body":"can be disruptive, that can"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1460.765,"endTime":1463.755,"body":"be challenging to manage."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1464.155,"endTime":1466.9450000000002,"body":"I'd be curious to sort of flip"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1464.155,"endTime":1466.9450000000002,"body":"that around and to ask you"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1466.9550000000002,"endTime":1472.1950000000002,"body":"what has been a new technology,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1466.9550000000002,"endTime":1472.1950000000002,"body":"a new workflow, a new way"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1472.1950000000002,"endTime":1475.7250000000001,"body":"of operating that has been"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1472.1950000000002,"endTime":1475.7250000000001,"body":"really useful and valuable"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1475.7250000000001,"endTime":1476.505,"body":"to the work that you do?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1476.9850000000001,"endTime":1478.505,"body":"There's a lot of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1476.9850000000001,"endTime":1478.505,"body":"just like simple automations"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1479.4950000000001,"endTime":1482.2150000000001,"body":"that come in some of the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1479.4950000000001,"endTime":1482.2150000000001,"body":"stuff, like just letting"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1482.2150000000001,"endTime":1485.505,"body":"somebody know that there's"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1482.2150000000001,"endTime":1485.505,"body":"a next step in the process."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1485.925,"endTime":1488.365,"body":"That used to be, I feel like,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1485.925,"endTime":1488.365,"body":"okay, I'm done with this, and"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1488.365,"endTime":1490.9950000000001,"body":"then you have to sort of tag"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1488.365,"endTime":1490.9950000000001,"body":"them or flag it or whatever."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1491.405,"endTime":1494.7450000000001,"body":"And now you just like basically"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1491.405,"endTime":1494.7450000000001,"body":"press one button and it tells"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1494.7450000000001,"endTime":1497.185,"body":"everybody else that what"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1494.7450000000001,"endTime":1497.185,"body":"they need to be doing for"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1497.185,"endTime":1498.565,"body":"the next step in the process."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1498.97,"endTime":1499.88,"body":"That is nice."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1499.91,"endTime":1503.6200000000001,"body":"I do, I do that because I have"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1499.91,"endTime":1503.6200000000001,"body":"a terrible memory and I would"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1503.6200000000001,"endTime":1507.41,"body":"always forget to tag somebody"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1503.6200000000001,"endTime":1507.41,"body":"or forget, like that I had to"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1507.41,"endTime":1509.16,"body":"take this step in the process."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1509.43,"endTime":1512.53,"body":"Now, so much of that has just"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1509.43,"endTime":1512.53,"body":"been automated for you that"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1512.93,"endTime":1517.0800000000002,"body":"like we use Airtable as one of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1512.93,"endTime":1517.0800000000002,"body":"our content management tools,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1517.0800000000002,"endTime":1518.0900000000001,"body":"to get it through the process."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1518.4550000000002,"endTime":1519.895,"body":"And I never have"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1518.4550000000002,"endTime":1519.895,"body":"to tag a designer."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1519.9950000000001,"endTime":1521.175,"body":"It just goes straight to them."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1521.175,"endTime":1522.655,"body":"It's now in their workflow."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1523.065,"endTime":1523.835,"body":"They do their thing."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1523.835,"endTime":1526.005,"body":"And when they're done with it,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1523.835,"endTime":1526.005,"body":"it goes off to the next person."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1526.005,"endTime":1528.295,"body":"The next person tags me for"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1526.005,"endTime":1528.295,"body":"the final, or doesn't even have"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1528.295,"endTime":1529.515,"body":"to tag me for the final stage."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1529.515,"endTime":1533.075,"body":"It just pops up in my view as"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1529.515,"endTime":1533.075,"body":"Oh, you have to do this now."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1533.185,"endTime":1534.255,"body":"So that's kind of nice."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1534.255,"endTime":1535.105,"body":"I like that."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1535.585,"endTime":1537.9450000000002,"body":"I've always found like"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1535.585,"endTime":1537.9450000000002,"body":"tools like that very useful"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1537.9450000000002,"endTime":1540.905,"body":"just because like I said,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1537.9450000000002,"endTime":1540.905,"body":"I either write things"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1540.905,"endTime":1542.105,"body":"down or I forget them."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1544.165,"endTime":1546.375,"body":"Well, and that's"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1544.165,"endTime":1546.375,"body":"such a great example because"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1546.895,"endTime":1550.14,"body":"all of that time and energy"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1546.895,"endTime":1550.14,"body":"you're spending following up"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1550.14,"endTime":1552.81,"body":"with people, trying to remember,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1550.14,"endTime":1552.81,"body":"trying to find your notes,"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1553.28,"endTime":1556.0800000000002,"body":"sending them messages, you get"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1553.28,"endTime":1556.0800000000002,"body":"all that back and now you can"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1556.0900000000001,"endTime":1560.085,"body":"think about the podcast and"},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1556.0900000000001,"endTime":1560.085,"body":"the stories you're writing."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1560.885,"endTime":1561.9550000000002,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1561.9550000000002,"endTime":1565.675,"body":"So in that sense, that's been a"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1561.9550000000002,"endTime":1565.675,"body":"very useful and valuable tool."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1566.1950000000002,"endTime":1567.9550000000002,"body":"Well, Eric, I want to thank you"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1566.1950000000002,"endTime":1567.9550000000002,"body":"for coming on the show today."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1567.9550000000002,"endTime":1568.515,"body":"This was great."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1568.515,"endTime":1569.405,"body":"I really appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1569.7250000000001,"endTime":1570.325,"body":"Yeah, David."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1570.325,"endTime":1570.7450000000001,"body":"Great to be here."},{"speaker":"Eric Athas","startTime":1570.7450000000001,"endTime":1571.775,"body":"Thanks so much for having me."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1573.915,"endTime":1575.795,"body":"All right"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1573.915,"endTime":1575.795,"body":"listeners, until next time."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1575.795,"endTime":1577.4750000000001,"body":"If you haven't done so"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1575.795,"endTime":1577.4750000000001,"body":"already, head on over to"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1577.4750000000001,"endTime":1581.2150000000001,"body":"peoplemanagingpeople.com/subscribe,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1577.4750000000001,"endTime":1581.2150000000001,"body":"get signed up for"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1581.2150000000001,"endTime":1581.9850000000001,"body":"the newsletter."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1582.355,"endTime":1584.915,"body":"And until next time,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1582.355,"endTime":1584.915,"body":"keep enjoying those"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1584.935,"endTime":1586.214,"body":"pumpkin spice lattes."}]}