{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":21.94,"endTime":23.740000000000002,"body":"The boxes"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":21.94,"endTime":23.740000000000002,"body":"are what keep us from"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":23.740000000000002,"endTime":26.990000000000002,"body":"engaging and getting to know"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":23.740000000000002,"endTime":26.990000000000002,"body":"who we are, not just what."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":27.429000000000002,"endTime":30.839,"body":"And so if you take people out"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":27.429000000000002,"endTime":30.839,"body":"of their what box, that they're"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":30.839,"endTime":36.799,"body":"this multidimensional who that"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":30.839,"endTime":36.799,"body":"the difference that we see is"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":36.799,"endTime":40.849000000000004,"body":"just because we choose to see"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":36.799,"endTime":40.849000000000004,"body":"it versus seeing this person as"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":40.86,"endTime":43.760000000000005,"body":"who they are, that happens to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":40.86,"endTime":43.760000000000005,"body":"have particular characteristics."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":44.16,"endTime":47.480000000000004,"body":"And I think if we did that"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":44.16,"endTime":47.480000000000004,"body":"and, obviously, there's months"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":47.480000000000004,"endTime":50.68,"body":"like Pride, there's months"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":47.480000000000004,"endTime":50.68,"body":"like Black History, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":50.92,"endTime":53.16,"body":"If it just drops off at"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":50.92,"endTime":53.16,"body":"the end of that month, how"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":53.16,"endTime":54.34,"body":"much was it really worth?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":59.040000000000006,"endTime":61.21000000000001,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":59.040000000000006,"endTime":61.21000000000001,"body":"People Managing People podcast."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":61.480000000000004,"endTime":63.679,"body":"We're on a mission to build"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":61.480000000000004,"endTime":63.679,"body":"a better world of work and to"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":63.68000000000001,"endTime":66.669,"body":"help you create happy, healthy,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":63.68000000000001,"endTime":66.669,"body":"and productive workplaces."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":67.019,"endTime":68.53,"body":"I'm your host, David Rice."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":68.865,"endTime":72.465,"body":"My guest today is Amri Johnson,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":68.865,"endTime":72.465,"body":"founder of Inclusion Wins."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":72.745,"endTime":74.655,"body":"We're going to be talking"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":72.745,"endTime":74.655,"body":"about the current moment"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":74.665,"endTime":77.935,"body":"in DEI and why a focus"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":74.665,"endTime":77.935,"body":"on inclusion represents a"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":77.935,"endTime":79.475,"body":"way forward for everybody."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":79.475,"endTime":80.69500000000001,"body":"Amri, welcome."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":81.105,"endTime":81.975,"body":"Great"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":81.105,"endTime":81.975,"body":"to be here, David."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":82.035,"endTime":82.375,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":82.884,"endTime":86.225,"body":"So first, Given the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":82.884,"endTime":86.225,"body":"moment that we're in, it'd be"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":86.225,"endTime":89.225,"body":"a bit weird if we did a show"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":86.225,"endTime":89.225,"body":"where inevitably DEI is going"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":89.225,"endTime":92.195,"body":"to come up and we didn't talk"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":89.225,"endTime":92.195,"body":"about the elephant in the room."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":92.235,"endTime":93.105,"body":"No pun intended."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":93.585,"endTime":97.38499999999999,"body":"There's a lot of rhetoric though"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":93.585,"endTime":97.38499999999999,"body":"around the term DEI and what's"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":97.38499999999999,"endTime":98.624,"body":"been done in recent years."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":98.624,"endTime":101.434,"body":"And I find it interesting"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":98.624,"endTime":101.434,"body":"because when we spoke"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":101.445,"endTime":102.614,"body":"about this beforehand."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":102.994,"endTime":105.25399999999999,"body":"You said something I really"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":102.994,"endTime":105.25399999999999,"body":"like, and that's that the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":105.25399999999999,"endTime":108.994,"body":"loudest people have dominated"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":105.25399999999999,"endTime":108.994,"body":"the conversation around DEI"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":108.994,"endTime":111.67399999999999,"body":"practices, not the people"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":108.994,"endTime":111.67399999999999,"body":"who are actually doing or"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":111.67399999999999,"endTime":113.244,"body":"promoting DEI done right."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":113.695,"endTime":116.844,"body":"And I'm curious, because there's"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":113.695,"endTime":116.844,"body":"a lot of folks trying to run"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":116.844,"endTime":119.844,"body":"from it right now, what do you"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":116.844,"endTime":119.844,"body":"think can quiet things down a"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":119.844,"endTime":123.675,"body":"bit and help people who haven't"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":119.844,"endTime":123.675,"body":"given up on it recalibrate their"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":123.675,"endTime":125.844,"body":"efforts in this new environment?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":126.214,"endTime":129.49,"body":"David, I think"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":126.214,"endTime":129.49,"body":"most people haven't given up"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":129.49,"endTime":133.839,"body":"on the principles of inclusion,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":129.49,"endTime":133.839,"body":"of diversity, of equity."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":134.21,"endTime":137.46,"body":"I think very few people"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":134.21,"endTime":137.46,"body":"understand that those"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":137.49,"endTime":140.26,"body":"principles are underlying"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":137.49,"endTime":140.26,"body":"DEI, so they're just looking"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":140.26,"endTime":141.369,"body":"at these three letters."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":141.83,"endTime":143.909,"body":"And I think most of the"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":141.83,"endTime":143.909,"body":"things that they're looking"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":143.909,"endTime":147.68,"body":"at are around things that"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":143.909,"endTime":147.68,"body":"seem unfair to people who've"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":147.86,"endTime":150.965,"body":"probably historically been"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":147.86,"endTime":150.965,"body":"on the upper hand of power"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":150.965,"endTime":154.085,"body":"because of their group"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":150.965,"endTime":154.085,"body":"identity, but not entirely."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":154.355,"endTime":158.125,"body":"And so I think there's this"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":154.355,"endTime":158.125,"body":"kind of tension that's come up"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":158.145,"endTime":161.695,"body":"because the past few years, a"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":158.145,"endTime":161.695,"body":"lot of the efforts were focused"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":161.695,"endTime":167.434,"body":"on anti racism usually really"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":161.695,"endTime":167.434,"body":"anti Black racism since 2020."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":167.744,"endTime":170.32399999999998,"body":"And I think that's what"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":167.744,"endTime":170.32399999999998,"body":"people equate with DEI."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":170.334,"endTime":172.834,"body":"So the tension is not with DEI."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":172.844,"endTime":176.054,"body":"The tension is with"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":172.844,"endTime":176.054,"body":"understanding what it means to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":176.054,"endTime":181.389,"body":"your organization and what it"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":176.054,"endTime":181.389,"body":"is separate from the historical"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":181.409,"endTime":185.049,"body":"paradigms that have been mostly"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":181.409,"endTime":185.049,"body":"focused on social justice and"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":185.049,"endTime":189.839,"body":"affirmative action from the"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":185.049,"endTime":189.839,"body":"60s versus the more performance"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":189.889,"endTime":192.69899999999998,"body":"paradigms that I believe are"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":189.889,"endTime":192.69899999999998,"body":"more relevant today that are"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":192.69899999999998,"endTime":195.849,"body":"about what are the individual"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":192.69899999999998,"endTime":195.849,"body":"unique attributes that a person"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":195.849,"endTime":198.589,"body":"has that they bring to the"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":195.849,"endTime":198.589,"body":"table that can allow them to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":198.909,"endTime":201.279,"body":"matter and make their best"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":198.909,"endTime":201.279,"body":"contribution to organizational"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":201.279,"endTime":202.849,"body":"life and what is the mixture."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":203.439,"endTime":205.809,"body":"Similarities and differences"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":203.439,"endTime":205.809,"body":"and their attentions and"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":205.809,"endTime":208.209,"body":"complexity mean to your"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":205.809,"endTime":208.209,"body":"organization writ large."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":208.209,"endTime":212.19899999999998,"body":"So to me, and I can explain"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":208.209,"endTime":212.19899999999998,"body":"that, but I think to me is"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":212.559,"endTime":215.169,"body":"we're talking past each other"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":212.559,"endTime":215.169,"body":"instead of with each other."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":215.169,"endTime":218.499,"body":"We're talking about our"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":215.169,"endTime":218.499,"body":"what's versus who we are."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":218.499,"endTime":222.159,"body":"And I think if we get to the"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":218.499,"endTime":222.159,"body":"who and we get to the clarity"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":222.159,"endTime":225.249,"body":"that we're trying to build"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":222.159,"endTime":225.249,"body":"relationship, even if we"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":225.249,"endTime":228.399,"body":"disagree, we'll move a lot"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":225.249,"endTime":228.399,"body":"further than we're moving now."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":228.399,"endTime":232.529,"body":"Right now it's just a cacophony"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":228.399,"endTime":232.529,"body":"of foolishness and silliness."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":232.97899999999998,"endTime":235.329,"body":"On both sides of the so"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":232.97899999999998,"endTime":235.329,"body":"called aisle, it's not just"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":235.329,"endTime":236.769,"body":"one sided it's both sides."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":236.789,"endTime":239.179,"body":"So they're not, they don't"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":236.789,"endTime":239.179,"body":"even realize how closely"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":239.179,"endTime":240.119,"body":"they mirror one another."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":240.119,"endTime":242.529,"body":"They just have different"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":240.119,"endTime":242.529,"body":"ideological perspectives"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":242.529,"endTime":243.459,"body":"at this point in time."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":243.869,"endTime":245.249,"body":"Yeah, I couldn't"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":243.869,"endTime":245.249,"body":"agree with that more."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":245.779,"endTime":248.469,"body":"It has been oversimplified"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":245.779,"endTime":248.469,"body":"to say the least."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":248.869,"endTime":252.959,"body":"I want to start by, talking"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":248.869,"endTime":252.959,"body":"about your focus on inclusion."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":253.679,"endTime":256.41900000000004,"body":"So much attention has been"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":253.679,"endTime":256.41900000000004,"body":"paid to diversity and equity"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":256.41900000000004,"endTime":258.23900000000003,"body":"as part of that DEI, language."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":258.714,"endTime":261.48400000000004,"body":"But you were headed down"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":258.714,"endTime":261.48400000000004,"body":"as an inclusion focused"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":261.48400000000004,"endTime":264.374,"body":"direction before the phrase"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":261.48400000000004,"endTime":264.374,"body":"DEI became like this hot"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":264.374,"endTime":266.04400000000004,"body":"button political issue, right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":266.474,"endTime":269.144,"body":"And you developed what"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":266.474,"endTime":269.144,"body":"you call the emerging"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":269.154,"endTime":269.844,"body":"inclusion framework."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":270.98400000000004,"endTime":273.644,"body":"I'm curious though, back in 22"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":270.98400000000004,"endTime":273.644,"body":"when you wrote Reconstructing"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":273.644,"endTime":276.339,"body":"Inclusion, that's your book,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":273.644,"endTime":276.339,"body":"what were you seeing in your"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":276.339,"endTime":279.799,"body":"work that made you feel like"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":276.339,"endTime":279.799,"body":"we're at this point where this"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":279.809,"endTime":281.209,"body":"is what drives us forward?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":281.609,"endTime":284.399,"body":"I think when"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":281.609,"endTime":284.399,"body":"I wrote the book, inclusion was"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":284.399,"endTime":289.739,"body":"what I always knew, probably"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":284.399,"endTime":289.739,"body":"more than just representation."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":289.739,"endTime":292.379,"body":"Because to me, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":289.739,"endTime":292.379,"body":"people have reduced diversity"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":292.389,"endTime":296.059,"body":"management to representation,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":292.389,"endTime":296.059,"body":"and they've made it just"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":296.059,"endTime":297.279,"body":"about group identity."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":297.349,"endTime":302.149,"body":"I never honestly, because I took"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":297.349,"endTime":302.149,"body":"my cues from some giants in this"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":302.149,"endTime":306.429,"body":"space, particularly Roosevelt"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":302.149,"endTime":306.429,"body":"Thomas, who wrote a book in 1991"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":306.469,"endTime":307.969,"body":"called Beyond Race and Gender."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":308.589,"endTime":309.86899999999997,"body":"Those were my cues."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":309.899,"endTime":314.859,"body":"And so while I understood"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":309.899,"endTime":314.859,"body":"the paradigms of old, I"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":314.859,"endTime":317.189,"body":"never thought that they"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":314.859,"endTime":317.189,"body":"actually got us very far."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":317.564,"endTime":320.914,"body":"You focus on recruiting people"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":317.564,"endTime":320.914,"body":"from an underrepresented"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":320.924,"endTime":324.044,"body":"group, whether it be women"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":320.924,"endTime":324.044,"body":"or people from racialized"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":324.074,"endTime":329.604,"body":"backgrounds or what have you,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":324.074,"endTime":329.604,"body":"LGBT, and the numbers go up"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":330.084,"endTime":332.544,"body":"and in some cases they might"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":330.084,"endTime":332.544,"body":"stay up for a while and there"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":332.544,"endTime":335.674,"body":"might be some folks that just"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":332.544,"endTime":335.674,"body":"build enough cachet that they"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":335.674,"endTime":337.214,"body":"hire people like themselves."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":337.544,"endTime":341.514,"body":"So it's the same old same"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":337.544,"endTime":341.514,"body":"that we always had, or it"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":341.514,"endTime":342.954,"body":"goes up and then it goes down."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":343.364,"endTime":347.334,"body":"And so I think if we were"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":343.364,"endTime":347.334,"body":"more natural about our overall"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":347.364,"endTime":351.284,"body":"kind of system around talent"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":347.364,"endTime":351.284,"body":"attraction, we could probably"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":351.284,"endTime":354.964,"body":"sustain the levels of diversity"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":351.284,"endTime":354.964,"body":"that we think allow us to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":354.964,"endTime":358.614,"body":"perform at our best levels, both"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":354.964,"endTime":358.614,"body":"cognitive as well as identity."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":358.974,"endTime":362.524,"body":"And so I focused on inclusion"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":358.974,"endTime":362.524,"body":"because I think if you focus on"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":362.524,"endTime":366.704,"body":"inclusion, you get what you want"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":362.524,"endTime":366.704,"body":"versus you get temporary results"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":366.704,"endTime":368.654,"body":"of what you thought you wanted."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":368.654,"endTime":371.504,"body":"But the trade off is it's"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":368.654,"endTime":371.504,"body":"not able to be sustained."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":371.944,"endTime":375.504,"body":"And so like for me, it was like"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":371.944,"endTime":375.504,"body":"inclusion creates the conditions"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":375.504,"endTime":376.894,"body":"for everybody to thrive."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":377.004,"endTime":382.004,"body":"It creates the conditions"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":377.004,"endTime":382.004,"body":"for systems to be robust and"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":382.014,"endTime":386.104,"body":"sustained in a way that gets"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":382.014,"endTime":386.104,"body":"you good business results."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":386.579,"endTime":389.539,"body":"But I don't think that's"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":386.579,"endTime":389.539,"body":"how most people framed it."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":389.559,"endTime":392.069,"body":"And so for me, that's"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":389.559,"endTime":392.069,"body":"how I always framed it."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":392.089,"endTime":393.329,"body":"That's how I knew how to do it."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":393.329,"endTime":395.159,"body":"That's what my theory"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":393.329,"endTime":395.159,"body":"of change was all about."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":395.459,"endTime":398.069,"body":"And so I moved in that direction"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":395.459,"endTime":398.069,"body":"and I got some friction, David."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":398.319,"endTime":401.639,"body":"It wasn't like it was all easy"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":398.319,"endTime":401.639,"body":"because some people didn't"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":401.639,"endTime":404.349,"body":"like the fact that I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":401.639,"endTime":404.349,"body":"focused on representation"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":404.349,"endTime":405.109,"body":"of certain groups."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":405.609,"endTime":406.649,"body":"They thought I was selling out."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":406.659,"endTime":407.359,"body":"You don't get it."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":407.419,"endTime":409.629,"body":"I didn't matter that I'd done"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":407.419,"endTime":409.629,"body":"this for as long as I've done."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":409.629,"endTime":410.359,"body":"It didn't matter."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":410.679,"endTime":413.209,"body":"You're wrong, especially in"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":410.679,"endTime":413.209,"body":"the past few years, I've been"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":413.259,"endTime":414.789,"body":"very wrong for a lot of people."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":415.199,"endTime":418.699,"body":"And that was okay because I knew"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":415.199,"endTime":418.699,"body":"I was in this for the long haul."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":419.199,"endTime":421.86899999999997,"body":"And a lot of people aren't"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":419.199,"endTime":421.86899999999997,"body":"here doing this work anymore"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":421.86899999999997,"endTime":424.989,"body":"because they went after a social"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":421.86899999999997,"endTime":424.989,"body":"justice lens instead of a."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":425.329,"endTime":428.299,"body":"A lens that was about"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":425.329,"endTime":428.299,"body":"creating the best conditions"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":428.299,"endTime":430.239,"body":"and fulfilling the"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":428.299,"endTime":430.239,"body":"organizational mission."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":430.889,"endTime":432.169,"body":"That's what we're all about."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":432.349,"endTime":436.039,"body":"And I think if you are about"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":432.349,"endTime":436.039,"body":"that, this kind of silliness"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":436.039,"endTime":438.069,"body":"about anti or pro DI is."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":439.079,"endTime":442.229,"body":"It's irrelevant to you doesn't"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":439.079,"endTime":442.229,"body":"mean people start worried and"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":442.229,"endTime":444.509,"body":"worried about what the Trump"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":442.229,"endTime":444.509,"body":"administration is doing But"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":444.879,"endTime":447.899,"body":"Trump administration is probably"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":444.879,"endTime":447.899,"body":"correcting something that in a"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":447.899,"endTime":451.259,"body":"way needed to be corrected the"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":447.899,"endTime":451.259,"body":"way that they're corrected is"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":451.259,"endTime":455.159,"body":"little throwing out the baby"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":451.259,"endTime":455.159,"body":"with the bathwater and We have"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":455.159,"endTime":458.229,"body":"to deal with it until it dies"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":455.159,"endTime":458.229,"body":"down because I don't think it's"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":458.229,"endTime":463.469,"body":"gonna be indefinite And I think"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":458.229,"endTime":463.469,"body":"if people are serious about"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":463.839,"endTime":468.459,"body":"doing this work well and doing"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":463.839,"endTime":468.459,"body":"it with their people and making"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":468.459,"endTime":472.249,"body":"sure it's accessible to everyone"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":468.459,"endTime":472.249,"body":"and prioritized properly so it"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":472.249,"endTime":476.339,"body":"can be sustained, it's a really"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":472.249,"endTime":476.339,"body":"a transformative space to be"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":476.339,"endTime":479.86899999999997,"body":"in inclusion if you're doing"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":476.339,"endTime":479.86899999999997,"body":"it with that lens and all the D"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":479.86899999999997,"endTime":483.789,"body":"and the E stuff happens when you"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":479.86899999999997,"endTime":483.789,"body":"are consistent with the I stuff."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":484.009,"endTime":489.159,"body":"I think we should call it"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":484.009,"endTime":489.159,"body":"I and D sometimes and E"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":489.169,"endTime":493.899,"body":"because we want to create"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":489.169,"endTime":493.899,"body":"upstream opportunity for"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":493.899,"endTime":495.439,"body":"everybody consistently."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":495.439,"endTime":497.319,"body":"So inclusion is my jam."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":497.509,"endTime":499.209,"body":"I guess I'll stop with that."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":499.21,"endTime":500.89,"body":"You said something"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":499.21,"endTime":500.89,"body":"that really resonated with"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":500.89,"endTime":503.28,"body":"me in our previous roles."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":503.6,"endTime":506.78,"body":"And when I was working around"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":503.6,"endTime":506.78,"body":"DEI, I remember thinking like"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":506.79,"endTime":509.13,"body":"other people's expectations"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":506.79,"endTime":509.13,"body":"create a lot of work for"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":509.16,"endTime":512.62,"body":"me in the sense that we"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":509.16,"endTime":512.62,"body":"you'd have pride month,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":512.62,"endTime":513.59,"body":"or something like that."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":513.59,"endTime":515.7900000000001,"body":"Oh, one of the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":513.59,"endTime":515.7900000000001,"body":"observance months come."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":516.36,"endTime":518.77,"body":"And it's Oh, we got to do"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":516.36,"endTime":518.77,"body":"this big thing for this."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":518.82,"endTime":521.86,"body":"And I'm like we don't"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":518.82,"endTime":521.86,"body":"have the assets or the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":521.86,"endTime":523.11,"body":"resources at the moment."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":523.765,"endTime":527.345,"body":"Couldn't we also talk"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":523.765,"endTime":527.345,"body":"about the LGBTQ community"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":527.355,"endTime":529.315,"body":"in August or September?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":529.775,"endTime":533.115,"body":"Can we only talk about them in"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":529.775,"endTime":533.115,"body":"June or, you know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":533.115,"endTime":535.5050000000001,"body":"Like, when we get our"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":533.115,"endTime":535.5050000000001,"body":"stuff together, why don't"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":535.5050000000001,"endTime":536.485,"body":"we talk about it then?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":536.8050000000001,"endTime":539.4050000000001,"body":"And we just let the rest of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":536.8050000000001,"endTime":539.4050000000001,"body":"the world observe Pride Month."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":539.4050000000001,"endTime":541.625,"body":"We don't have to"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":539.4050000000001,"endTime":541.625,"body":"Be the voice on it,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":541.625,"endTime":543.455,"body":"yeah,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":541.625,"endTime":543.455,"body":"that's a tough one."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":543.5250000000001,"endTime":544.287,"body":"That's a tough one."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":544.287,"endTime":546.725,"body":"And a lot of it was"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":544.287,"endTime":546.725,"body":"just like, it's okay."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":546.725,"endTime":548.845,"body":"Like we're checking"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":546.725,"endTime":548.845,"body":"a box essentially."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":548.845,"endTime":551.5450000000001,"body":"It's a whole bunch of boxes"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":548.845,"endTime":551.5450000000001,"body":"being created for you to check."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":552.065,"endTime":555.195,"body":"And so I felt like sometimes"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":552.065,"endTime":555.195,"body":"I'm like, I wish people would"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":555.195,"endTime":558.0250000000001,"body":"strip away their expectations"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":555.195,"endTime":558.0250000000001,"body":"a little bit and just,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":558.4350000000001,"endTime":559.825,"body":"david, there is no box."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":559.8850000000001,"endTime":560.965,"body":"We create the box."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":560.965,"endTime":562.715,"body":"The box is not, it's not real."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":562.965,"endTime":565.8850000000001,"body":"I had somebody, I had"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":562.965,"endTime":565.8850000000001,"body":"Fred Falker on my podcast."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":566.195,"endTime":567.705,"body":"Fred is based in St. Louis."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":568.1300000000001,"endTime":571.75,"body":"He has a brilliant TED talk if"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":568.1300000000001,"endTime":571.75,"body":"you look up Frederick Falker and"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":571.8000000000001,"endTime":574.45,"body":"of course, look at my podcast"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":571.8000000000001,"endTime":574.45,"body":"because that episode really goes"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":574.45,"endTime":578.6700000000001,"body":"into depth and he talks about"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":574.45,"endTime":578.6700000000001,"body":"these boxes we put or we ascribe"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":578.6700000000001,"endTime":580.57,"body":"to people, but they're not real."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":580.96,"endTime":584.2900000000001,"body":"And the boxes are what keep us"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":580.96,"endTime":584.2900000000001,"body":"from engaging and getting to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":584.2900000000001,"endTime":586.23,"body":"know who we are, not just what."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":586.6500000000001,"endTime":589.2800000000001,"body":"And so if you take people"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":586.6500000000001,"endTime":589.2800000000001,"body":"out of their what box."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":589.57,"endTime":594.5200000000001,"body":"That there are this"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":589.57,"endTime":594.5200000000001,"body":"multidimensional who that the"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":594.5200000000001,"endTime":597.7700000000001,"body":"difference that we see is just"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":594.5200000000001,"endTime":597.7700000000001,"body":"because we choose to see it"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":597.7800000000001,"endTime":601.61,"body":"versus seeing this person as"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":597.7800000000001,"endTime":601.61,"body":"who they are that happens to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":601.61,"endTime":603.08,"body":"have particular characteristics."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":603.61,"endTime":607.1500000000001,"body":"If we did that, and, obviously"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":603.61,"endTime":607.1500000000001,"body":"there's months like Pride,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":607.1600000000001,"endTime":610.8100000000001,"body":"there's months like Black"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":607.1600000000001,"endTime":610.8100000000001,"body":"History, Asian Pacific Islander"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":610.8100000000001,"endTime":613.7,"body":"history, et cetera, et cetera,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":610.8100000000001,"endTime":613.7,"body":"all good, something to raise"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":613.72,"endTime":616.61,"body":"the level of understanding, but"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":613.72,"endTime":616.61,"body":"if we just, if it just drops"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":616.61,"endTime":619.09,"body":"off at the end of that month,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":616.61,"endTime":619.09,"body":"how much was it really worth?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":619.745,"endTime":622.705,"body":"It helped some speakers, it"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":619.745,"endTime":622.705,"body":"helped some people make a"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":622.705,"endTime":627.2850000000001,"body":"little cheddar, but did it"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":622.705,"endTime":627.2850000000001,"body":"actually create a different"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":627.2850000000001,"endTime":630.575,"body":"level of understanding with"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":627.2850000000001,"endTime":630.575,"body":"each other than we had the same"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":630.575,"endTime":633.2950000000001,"body":"separation that we had before"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":630.575,"endTime":633.2950000000001,"body":"we came together around this?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":633.3050000000001,"endTime":635.815,"body":"So if you are doing that"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":633.3050000000001,"endTime":635.815,"body":"and you're engaging with"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":635.815,"endTime":638.6650000000001,"body":"more people because of your"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":635.815,"endTime":638.6650000000001,"body":"distinctions, that's one thing."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":638.94,"endTime":641.37,"body":"But if you're just doing it"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":638.94,"endTime":641.37,"body":"to just celebrate that, but"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":641.37,"endTime":644.1500000000001,"body":"not bring more people in and"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":641.37,"endTime":644.1500000000001,"body":"have discussions about what"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":644.1500000000001,"endTime":647.45,"body":"that means, what it means to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":644.1500000000001,"endTime":647.45,"body":"how I work, how I show up, the"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":647.45,"endTime":650.73,"body":"way that I see the world as"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":647.45,"endTime":650.73,"body":"a result of this particular"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":650.73,"endTime":654.1400000000001,"body":"part of my identity, in"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":650.73,"endTime":654.1400000000001,"body":"addition to the other parts,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":654.44,"endTime":657.46,"body":"we start seeing commonalities"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":654.44,"endTime":657.46,"body":"and people get to see who"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":657.5100000000001,"endTime":658.7800000000001,"body":"people are, not just what."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":659.11,"endTime":659.7700000000001,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":660.1,"endTime":662.5300000000001,"body":"You mentioned in your previous"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":660.1,"endTime":662.5300000000001,"body":"answer, you were talking about"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":662.5400000000001,"endTime":665.59,"body":"systems a little bit in the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":662.5400000000001,"endTime":665.59,"body":"book, you've talked about that"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":665.59,"endTime":667.0200000000001,"body":"many DEI initiatives were."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":667.3850000000001,"endTime":670.375,"body":"Reactionary, they're cosmetic"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":667.3850000000001,"endTime":670.375,"body":"rather than systematic."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":670.7850000000001,"endTime":674.195,"body":"What steps can organizations"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":670.7850000000001,"endTime":674.195,"body":"take to embed inclusion"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":674.315,"endTime":676.1350000000001,"body":"into their core practices?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":676.365,"endTime":677.5150000000001,"body":"Every"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":676.365,"endTime":677.5150000000001,"body":"organization runs"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":677.5150000000001,"endTime":678.6350000000001,"body":"on systems David?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":678.9150000000001,"endTime":683.0550000000001,"body":"And so what systems are"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":678.9150000000001,"endTime":683.0550000000001,"body":"running right now where"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":683.1850000000001,"endTime":686.325,"body":"you might not have a lens"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":683.1850000000001,"endTime":686.325,"body":"of inclusion, meaning."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":686.6300000000001,"endTime":689.58,"body":"Who's impacted by these systems"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":686.6300000000001,"endTime":689.58,"body":"and how much have they had"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":689.6,"endTime":691.11,"body":"input into designing them?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":691.1400000000001,"endTime":694.24,"body":"How much have they had"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":691.1400000000001,"endTime":694.24,"body":"input into how they"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":694.24,"endTime":696.87,"body":"function, what they do, how"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":694.24,"endTime":696.87,"body":"they could do it better?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":697.21,"endTime":700.2,"body":"What shifts they would make from"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":697.21,"endTime":700.2,"body":"their particular perspective"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":700.2,"endTime":701.59,"body":"on how this impacts them?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":701.82,"endTime":703.6500000000001,"body":"Let's use strategy for example."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":703.6800000000001,"endTime":707.475,"body":"One of the biggest things that"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":703.6800000000001,"endTime":707.475,"body":"I've seen in organizations"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":707.495,"endTime":710.605,"body":"is people don't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":707.495,"endTime":710.605,"body":"know where they fit"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":710.605,"endTime":711.875,"body":"into the bigger picture."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":712.205,"endTime":715.065,"body":"So if you're doing a, you"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":712.205,"endTime":715.065,"body":"have an appreciative or"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":715.065,"endTime":719.445,"body":"an inclusive approach to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":715.065,"endTime":719.445,"body":"strategy, people know why,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":719.465,"endTime":721.315,"body":"what they do every day matters."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":721.5550000000001,"endTime":723.345,"body":"Because they were"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":721.5550000000001,"endTime":723.345,"body":"included in the process"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":723.3950000000001,"endTime":726.205,"body":"of strategy development,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":723.3950000000001,"endTime":726.205,"body":"which is always emergent."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":726.205,"endTime":728.845,"body":"It's not something that's"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":726.205,"endTime":728.845,"body":"static, but you're keeping them"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":728.845,"endTime":733.945,"body":"engaged around where we're going"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":728.845,"endTime":733.945,"body":"and why, and what do you see"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":733.955,"endTime":735.9250000000001,"body":"from the place that you sit in."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":736.245,"endTime":738.2850000000001,"body":"Doesn't mean they're going to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":736.245,"endTime":738.2850000000001,"body":"be in the boardroom, but it"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":738.2850000000001,"endTime":742.625,"body":"does mean that they feel a sense"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":738.2850000000001,"endTime":742.625,"body":"of ownership of that strategy."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":743.0150000000001,"endTime":745.1350000000001,"body":"That can be for any"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":743.0150000000001,"endTime":745.1350000000001,"body":"system you have."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":745.1450000000001,"endTime":747.205,"body":"It could be for your"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":745.1450000000001,"endTime":747.205,"body":"systems around teams."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":747.205,"endTime":749.0150000000001,"body":"It could be for"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":747.205,"endTime":749.0150000000001,"body":"your reward systems."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":749.3050000000001,"endTime":752.2950000000001,"body":"What goes in there that"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":749.3050000000001,"endTime":752.2950000000001,"body":"reinforces the things that"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":752.2950000000001,"endTime":755.9350000000001,"body":"you want to happen for your"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":752.2950000000001,"endTime":755.9350000000001,"body":"culture to produce the outcomes."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":756.3850000000001,"endTime":758.115,"body":"That you want to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":756.3850000000001,"endTime":758.115,"body":"with your people."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":758.115,"endTime":760.4350000000001,"body":"If you define culture as a"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":758.115,"endTime":760.4350000000001,"body":"way things are done around"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":760.4350000000001,"endTime":764.315,"body":"here, how do you create that"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":760.4350000000001,"endTime":764.315,"body":"in your organizational system?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":764.315,"endTime":766.9250000000001,"body":"So the way things are done"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":764.315,"endTime":766.9250000000001,"body":"around here is in alignment"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":766.9350000000001,"endTime":769.375,"body":"with what the organization"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":766.9350000000001,"endTime":769.375,"body":"needs at any point in time,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":769.4050000000001,"endTime":771.065,"body":"and it constantly evolves and."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":771.475,"endTime":774.365,"body":"People create that from their"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":771.475,"endTime":774.365,"body":"own hearts and minds, not"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":774.365,"endTime":777.315,"body":"just from somebody telling"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":774.365,"endTime":777.315,"body":"them what it is or something"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":777.4250000000001,"endTime":779.485,"body":"put on the wall that says,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":777.4250000000001,"endTime":779.485,"body":"these are the things that"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":779.485,"endTime":782.6450000000001,"body":"are our culture, because"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":779.485,"endTime":782.6450000000001,"body":"we know that doesn't work."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":782.985,"endTime":785.489,"body":"So I think there's huge"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":782.985,"endTime":785.489,"body":"opportunity to just lead"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":785.489,"endTime":788.615,"body":"with inclusion and all"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":785.489,"endTime":788.615,"body":"your systems and for"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":788.615,"endTime":790.5690000000001,"body":"those that do org design."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":790.8100000000001,"endTime":794.1,"body":"It's one way to do it is you're"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":790.8100000000001,"endTime":794.1,"body":"in the process of designing"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":794.1,"endTime":797.08,"body":"your organization who's involved"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":794.1,"endTime":797.08,"body":"in making contributions to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":797.08,"endTime":800.1,"body":"that doesn't mean they tell"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":797.08,"endTime":800.1,"body":"you exactly how your execs are"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":800.1,"endTime":804.0,"body":"going to be organized throughout"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":800.1,"endTime":804.0,"body":"your organization when it"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":804.0,"endTime":807.23,"body":"comes to decision making and"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":804.0,"endTime":807.23,"body":"sense making, they need to be"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":807.23,"endTime":810.24,"body":"a part of it as much as they"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":807.23,"endTime":810.24,"body":"are part of the action taking."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":810.24,"endTime":812.95,"body":"So those things are"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":810.24,"endTime":812.95,"body":"coupled versus distinct."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":813.1700000000001,"endTime":814.48,"body":"It's funny"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":813.1700000000001,"endTime":814.48,"body":"because there's been some"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":814.48,"endTime":817.2,"body":"cases in recent years where"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":814.48,"endTime":817.2,"body":"it really felt like there was"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":817.5,"endTime":818.86,"body":"buy in at the highest level."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":818.86,"endTime":822.2600000000001,"body":"And it was interesting because"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":818.86,"endTime":822.2600000000001,"body":"we're finding out now that"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":822.2600000000001,"endTime":825.1600000000001,"body":"they must not have been,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":822.2600000000001,"endTime":825.1600000000001,"body":"because like I can think of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":825.1600000000001,"endTime":826.45,"body":"it was one major retailer."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":826.45,"endTime":827.4300000000001,"body":"I won't use their name."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":827.4300000000001,"endTime":831.34,"body":"I don't want to put a"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":827.4300000000001,"endTime":831.34,"body":"bullseye on them, but right"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":831.5,"endTime":833.48,"body":"now I don't want to get a"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":831.5,"endTime":833.48,"body":"cease and desist letter."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":835.815,"endTime":838.205,"body":"But I can remember being at"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":835.815,"endTime":838.205,"body":"like essence festival a couple"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":838.205,"endTime":839.945,"body":"of years ago and you should"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":838.205,"endTime":839.945,"body":"have seen the money they"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":839.945,"endTime":842.7550000000001,"body":"spent on like this activation"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":839.945,"endTime":842.7550000000001,"body":"that they had in there."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":842.7750000000001,"endTime":844.6350000000001,"body":"Now you look at it and"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":842.7750000000001,"endTime":844.6350000000001,"body":"you can't just, you just"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":844.6350000000001,"endTime":847.315,"body":"feel like, okay, so that"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":844.6350000000001,"endTime":847.315,"body":"was all a vanity project."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":849.065,"endTime":850.345,"body":"Maybe"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":849.065,"endTime":850.345,"body":"it was just marketing."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":850.69,"endTime":853.1800000000001,"body":"If that's your target and"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":850.69,"endTime":853.1800000000001,"body":"you have products that kind"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":853.1800000000001,"endTime":855.5500000000001,"body":"of cater to a particular"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":853.1800000000001,"endTime":855.5500000000001,"body":"demographic, go for it."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":855.82,"endTime":858.86,"body":"I'm still going to go to stores"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":855.82,"endTime":858.86,"body":"that have bullseyes on them or"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":858.86,"endTime":862.7800000000001,"body":"that have, big letters on the"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":858.86,"endTime":862.7800000000001,"body":"front of the store or whatever."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":862.7800000000001,"endTime":864.12,"body":"I'm still going to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":862.7800000000001,"endTime":864.12,"body":"go to those stores."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":864.12,"endTime":865.1600000000001,"body":"I'm not going to boycott."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":865.1600000000001,"endTime":866.1700000000001,"body":"I think some of that's silly."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":866.1700000000001,"endTime":868.94,"body":"I don't think it actually"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":866.1700000000001,"endTime":868.94,"body":"helps the so called cause."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":868.94,"endTime":870.9200000000001,"body":"And I've seen some people"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":868.94,"endTime":870.9200000000001,"body":"jump on that because"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":870.9200000000001,"endTime":872.22,"body":"it's beneficial to them."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":872.73,"endTime":874.5300000000001,"body":"And some of these"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":872.73,"endTime":874.5300000000001,"body":"people, I know them well."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":874.5300000000001,"endTime":875.6300000000001,"body":"I went to school with them."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":875.955,"endTime":877.6750000000001,"body":"They're well known people."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":877.6850000000001,"endTime":879.995,"body":"They're creating these"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":877.6850000000001,"endTime":879.995,"body":"boycotts and stuff like that."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":880.0450000000001,"endTime":881.125,"body":"But I don't think it's helpful."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":881.485,"endTime":884.1550000000001,"body":"And so where are the companies"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":881.485,"endTime":884.1550000000001,"body":"performing at the time?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":884.2950000000001,"endTime":884.975,"body":"Maybe not."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":884.985,"endTime":887.335,"body":"Maybe they were really"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":884.985,"endTime":887.335,"body":"sincere about it."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":887.345,"endTime":889.455,"body":"Maybe they're responding"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":887.345,"endTime":889.455,"body":"to the markets like their"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":889.455,"endTime":890.865,"body":"shareholders expect them to."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":891.35,"endTime":894.6300000000001,"body":"Maybe they're just taking things"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":891.35,"endTime":894.6300000000001,"body":"a little bit behind the scenes"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":894.6400000000001,"endTime":897.4200000000001,"body":"so they don't get attacked over"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":894.6400000000001,"endTime":897.4200000000001,"body":"the next four to five years by"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":897.4300000000001,"endTime":901.1600000000001,"body":"silly people who are sitting"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":897.4300000000001,"endTime":901.1600000000001,"body":"in their recording studios, in"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":901.1600000000001,"endTime":903.9300000000001,"body":"their room, in their houses,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":901.1600000000001,"endTime":903.9300000000001,"body":"recording videos about them"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":903.9300000000001,"endTime":907.5500000000001,"body":"so that they can make money"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":903.9300000000001,"endTime":907.5500000000001,"body":"as an anti DEI person, right?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":907.71,"endTime":909.69,"body":"This is all about politics."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":909.69,"endTime":912.1700000000001,"body":"This is not about"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":909.69,"endTime":912.1700000000001,"body":"creating the conditions."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":912.1700000000001,"endTime":914.0200000000001,"body":"This is not about"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":912.1700000000001,"endTime":914.0200000000001,"body":"organizational culture."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":914.0200000000001,"endTime":915.44,"body":"Most of this is about politics."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":915.83,"endTime":920.25,"body":"And unfortunately, some of"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":915.83,"endTime":920.25,"body":"the pro DEI, anti racism"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":920.25,"endTime":921.7,"body":"stuff was about politics, too."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":921.75,"endTime":924.72,"body":"It wasn't about really"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":921.75,"endTime":924.72,"body":"creating the right conditions,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":924.75,"endTime":926.5300000000001,"body":"because if you were doing"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":924.75,"endTime":926.5300000000001,"body":"that, you would know you"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":926.5300000000001,"endTime":928.0500000000001,"body":"can't do that in a vacuum."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":928.0500000000001,"endTime":930.94,"body":"We're too interdependent in"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":928.0500000000001,"endTime":930.94,"body":"the world, in the universe,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":931.1600000000001,"endTime":935.0400000000001,"body":"in our organizations to think"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":931.1600000000001,"endTime":935.0400000000001,"body":"that, oh, let's just do it"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":935.0400000000001,"endTime":937.4300000000001,"body":"for this group and it's going"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":935.0400000000001,"endTime":937.4300000000001,"body":"to be okay and everything"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":937.4300000000001,"endTime":939.9000000000001,"body":"will be fine because they've"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":937.4300000000001,"endTime":939.9000000000001,"body":"been the most marginalized."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":940.23,"endTime":942.0500000000001,"body":"Even though some of those"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":940.23,"endTime":942.0500000000001,"body":"people saying it were,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":942.09,"endTime":943.45,"body":"making half a million a year."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":943.9250000000001,"endTime":946.125,"body":"That's not the most"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":943.9250000000001,"endTime":946.125,"body":"marginalized, that's a very"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":946.1550000000001,"endTime":949.2550000000001,"body":"much bigger group, and it has"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":946.1550000000001,"endTime":949.2550000000001,"body":"nothing to do with their skin"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":949.2550000000001,"endTime":950.825,"body":"color all, all together, right?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":950.9150000000001,"endTime":952.745,"body":"There's some correlation,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":950.9150000000001,"endTime":952.745,"body":"but not as much as"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":952.815,"endTime":953.595,"body":"people made of it."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":953.6550000000001,"endTime":957.125,"body":"I'll pause there, but I think"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":953.6550000000001,"endTime":957.125,"body":"there's huge opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":957.5250000000001,"endTime":961.365,"body":"move beyond kind of blame"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":957.5250000000001,"endTime":961.365,"body":"placing these companies,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":961.365,"endTime":962.9150000000001,"body":"or what they're doing, what"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":961.365,"endTime":962.9150000000001,"body":"they're not, what they're"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":962.9150000000001,"endTime":966.69,"body":"saying on TV or in the news,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":962.9150000000001,"endTime":966.69,"body":"versus What's really going on?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":966.71,"endTime":969.4100000000001,"body":"We don't know it's all made up."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":969.45,"endTime":972.73,"body":"It's all kind of rage politics"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":969.45,"endTime":972.73,"body":"and yeah, I'm going to go here."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":972.74,"endTime":975.49,"body":"Now, if I have a brand and I'm"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":972.74,"endTime":975.49,"body":"going to start losing money"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":975.49,"endTime":978.2600000000001,"body":"because of this three letters,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":975.49,"endTime":978.2600000000001,"body":"you know what I'm going to do?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":978.6800000000001,"endTime":980.6600000000001,"body":"I'm going to stop"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":978.6800000000001,"endTime":980.6600000000001,"body":"talking about it."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":981.07,"endTime":981.74,"body":"I'm sorry."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":981.74,"endTime":985.35,"body":"I'm not just, Oh, I need to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":981.74,"endTime":985.35,"body":"stand up and be in solidarity."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":985.35,"endTime":987.5400000000001,"body":"I don't have to be in"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":985.35,"endTime":987.5400000000001,"body":"solidarity on television."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":987.6300000000001,"endTime":989.5300000000001,"body":"I don't have to be in"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":987.6300000000001,"endTime":989.5300000000001,"body":"solidarity on the news."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":990.095,"endTime":992.6750000000001,"body":"I need to be in solidarity"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":990.095,"endTime":992.6750000000001,"body":"when it really counts"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":992.7950000000001,"endTime":994.0450000000001,"body":"for people's lives."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":994.0450000000001,"endTime":996.715,"body":"And I think we'd be surprised"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":994.0450000000001,"endTime":996.715,"body":"that companies are doing"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":996.715,"endTime":999.075,"body":"that without actually"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":996.715,"endTime":999.075,"body":"having to call it DEI."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":999.3850000000001,"endTime":1000.235,"body":"Yeah, that's fair."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1000.6750000000001,"endTime":1003.2650000000001,"body":"Now, in the book, you address"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1000.6750000000001,"endTime":1003.2650000000001,"body":"the historical context of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1003.2650000000001,"endTime":1006.365,"body":"DEI, and I'm curious, how"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1003.2650000000001,"endTime":1006.365,"body":"does this understanding inform"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1006.375,"endTime":1009.2900000000001,"body":"more effective inclusion"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1006.375,"endTime":1009.2900000000001,"body":"strategies today, because I"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1009.2900000000001,"endTime":1012.4000000000001,"body":"think there's even a desire"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1009.2900000000001,"endTime":1012.4000000000001,"body":"to rewrite history around that"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1012.4000000000001,"endTime":1014.57,"body":"stuff a little bit, or the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1012.4000000000001,"endTime":1014.57,"body":"other thing I've seen is a lot"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1014.57,"endTime":1018.7900000000001,"body":"of scorekeeping and ranting"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1014.57,"endTime":1018.7900000000001,"body":"about everything from cancel"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1018.8000000000001,"endTime":1022.1500000000001,"body":"culture to woke ism, cultural"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1018.8000000000001,"endTime":1022.1500000000001,"body":"Marxism, virtue, signing,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1022.5200000000001,"endTime":1026.22,"body":"there's an entire subset of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1022.5200000000001,"endTime":1026.22,"body":"language that exists within"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1026.22,"endTime":1028.55,"body":"the rhetoric around this topic."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1028.58,"endTime":1030.9,"body":"And it almost seems to me"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1028.58,"endTime":1030.9,"body":"like there's more effort"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1031.28,"endTime":1034.8,"body":"to understand that language"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1031.28,"endTime":1034.8,"body":"than what these efforts were."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1035.13,"endTime":1038.31,"body":"actually about or how they're"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1035.13,"endTime":1038.31,"body":"evolving or what value they have"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1038.34,"endTime":1040.02,"body":"to both business and society."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1040.35,"endTime":1041.05,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1041.19,"endTime":1044.78,"body":"The answer to that is"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1041.19,"endTime":1044.78,"body":"there's a lot of noise."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1045.21,"endTime":1046.77,"body":"There's not very much signal."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1047.56,"endTime":1049.9,"body":"So signal takes nuance."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1050.3400000000001,"endTime":1051.97,"body":"You can't listen all the time."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1052.3600000000001,"endTime":1056.26,"body":"You have to listen as much as"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1052.3600000000001,"endTime":1056.26,"body":"you can pick stuff up, but not"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1056.47,"endTime":1059.06,"body":"dial in too much, just almost"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1056.47,"endTime":1059.06,"body":"you ever see one of those."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1059.47,"endTime":1062.5700000000002,"body":"Designs that they look one"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1059.47,"endTime":1062.5700000000002,"body":"way, like they look like"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1062.5800000000002,"endTime":1065.97,"body":"squares, but if you look deeper"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1062.5800000000002,"endTime":1065.97,"body":"in your peripheral vision,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1065.97,"endTime":1069.28,"body":"you'll see the circles like"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1065.97,"endTime":1069.28,"body":"underneath, you almost have"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1069.28,"endTime":1072.65,"body":"to look like that, like seeing"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1069.28,"endTime":1072.65,"body":"stuff that you can't see by"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1072.69,"endTime":1076.6000000000001,"body":"being completely focused on it"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1072.69,"endTime":1076.6000000000001,"body":"because it comes in very subtly."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1076.9,"endTime":1079.13,"body":"And so there are people"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1076.9,"endTime":1079.13,"body":"out here that are sending"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1079.13,"endTime":1080.6000000000001,"body":"more nuanced signals."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1081.0,"endTime":1082.94,"body":"And that's what I think"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1081.0,"endTime":1082.94,"body":"it's hard for people to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1082.94,"endTime":1085.3600000000001,"body":"pick up on because the"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1082.94,"endTime":1085.3600000000001,"body":"noise is so heavy right now."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1085.93,"endTime":1091.6000000000001,"body":"So I encourage people to move"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1085.93,"endTime":1091.6000000000001,"body":"towards understanding signal."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1091.98,"endTime":1095.3500000000001,"body":"That means dialing to a few"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1091.98,"endTime":1095.3500000000001,"body":"people that are just able to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1095.3500000000001,"endTime":1099.18,"body":"give you nuance and they don't"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1095.3500000000001,"endTime":1099.18,"body":"seem to have How do you say it?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1099.24,"endTime":1103.91,"body":"They're not benefiting from"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1099.24,"endTime":1103.91,"body":"making something wrong or Right."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1104.5700000000002,"endTime":1107.3300000000002,"body":"I could probably benefit"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1104.5700000000002,"endTime":1107.3300000000002,"body":"from making DEI right."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1107.3300000000002,"endTime":1112.15,"body":"Or defending DEI In a way, I"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1107.3300000000002,"endTime":1112.15,"body":"don't do it because principally"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1112.54,"endTime":1115.72,"body":"is principally whatever you"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1112.54,"endTime":1115.72,"body":"call my principles and the way I"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1115.72,"endTime":1117.22,"body":"practice is the way I practice."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1117.8300000000002,"endTime":1121.3700000000001,"body":"If you're just focused on the"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1117.8300000000002,"endTime":1121.3700000000001,"body":"noise, you'll have the pro"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1121.3700000000001,"endTime":1124.3700000000001,"body":"DEI and the anti DEI, and it"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1121.3700000000001,"endTime":1124.3700000000001,"body":"will seem like these polls"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1124.73,"endTime":1126.19,"body":"are completely separate."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1126.54,"endTime":1128.99,"body":"They're completely apart,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1126.54,"endTime":1128.99,"body":"but if you really look"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1129.0,"endTime":1132.17,"body":"closely, it's the rhetoric"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1129.0,"endTime":1132.17,"body":"that's completely apart."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1132.18,"endTime":1136.5800000000002,"body":"It's one kind of arm of rhetoric"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1132.18,"endTime":1136.5800000000002,"body":"that makes everybody racist and"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1136.5800000000002,"endTime":1140.77,"body":"one arm that makes everybody"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1136.5800000000002,"endTime":1140.77,"body":"stupid because they believe in"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1140.77,"endTime":1144.5800000000002,"body":"DEI or discriminatory or illegal"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1140.77,"endTime":1144.5800000000002,"body":"or however you want to frame it."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1145.06,"endTime":1147.74,"body":"But there's no real"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1145.06,"endTime":1147.74,"body":"understanding of what"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1147.74,"endTime":1148.76,"body":"each other means."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1149.31,"endTime":1153.1100000000001,"body":"So I think historically"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1149.31,"endTime":1153.1100000000001,"body":"that's been the case because"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1153.1100000000001,"endTime":1155.8600000000001,"body":"of the paradigms of civil"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1153.1100000000001,"endTime":1155.8600000000001,"body":"rights and social justice."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1156.43,"endTime":1158.55,"body":"I don't think it actually works."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1158.5900000000001,"endTime":1161.0700000000002,"body":"And I think if people"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1158.5900000000001,"endTime":1161.0700000000002,"body":"understood the principles"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1161.1100000000001,"endTime":1165.8700000000001,"body":"underneath inclusion, underneath"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1161.1100000000001,"endTime":1165.8700000000001,"body":"diversity management, as Dr."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1165.8700000000001,"endTime":1168.76,"body":"Thomas called it, they'd be"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1165.8700000000001,"endTime":1168.76,"body":"like, oh, that's reasonable."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1168.8200000000002,"endTime":1171.525,"body":"And every client that I've"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1168.8200000000002,"endTime":1171.525,"body":"had when I've Gone through"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1171.525,"endTime":1174.545,"body":"that process like that within"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1171.525,"endTime":1174.545,"body":"the emergent inclusion system"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1174.595,"endTime":1177.655,"body":"framework, or within the"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1174.595,"endTime":1177.655,"body":"inclusion system work that"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1177.655,"endTime":1181.095,"body":"I wrote about in the book,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1177.655,"endTime":1181.095,"body":"people are like, Oh, so it's"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1181.095,"endTime":1183.575,"body":"just a set of skills and"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1181.095,"endTime":1183.575,"body":"tools that allow me to create"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1183.575,"endTime":1185.635,"body":"the right conditions for"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1183.575,"endTime":1185.635,"body":"people to do their best work."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1186.145,"endTime":1187.105,"body":"That's reasonable."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1187.5,"endTime":1191.0700000000002,"body":"There's layers and dimensions"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1187.5,"endTime":1191.0700000000002,"body":"to that, but the polls,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1191.13,"endTime":1192.29,"body":"they're not the signal."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1192.81,"endTime":1195.4,"body":"The polls are just the"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1192.81,"endTime":1195.4,"body":"polls and their noise."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1195.46,"endTime":1198.95,"body":"And if you keep listening to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1195.46,"endTime":1198.95,"body":"them, you'll think DI is going"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1198.95,"endTime":1200.38,"body":"to never come back again."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1200.38,"endTime":1201.25,"body":"It's going to die."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1201.5700000000002,"endTime":1203.47,"body":"Literally, as some"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1201.5700000000002,"endTime":1203.47,"body":"people have said."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1203.79,"endTime":1205.7,"body":"And on the other hand,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1203.79,"endTime":1205.7,"body":"you're like, yeah it's going"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1205.7,"endTime":1209.06,"body":"to die because of anti,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1205.7,"endTime":1209.06,"body":"for these anti DEI people."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1209.25,"endTime":1210.5800000000002,"body":"None of that is true."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1211.02,"endTime":1213.01,"body":"It's all an incomplete framing."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1213.1000000000001,"endTime":1216.41,"body":"And if we start to reframe"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1213.1000000000001,"endTime":1216.41,"body":"about what we want to create,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1216.66,"endTime":1218.03,"body":"those conversations are moot."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1218.0800000000002,"endTime":1221.6100000000001,"body":"And I think companies"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1218.0800000000002,"endTime":1221.6100000000001,"body":"that are dedicated to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1221.6100000000001,"endTime":1222.5,"body":"this, they get that."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1222.5,"endTime":1224.49,"body":"And that's the direction"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1222.5,"endTime":1224.49,"body":"that they're moving in."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1224.98,"endTime":1226.5900000000001,"body":"When we were"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1224.98,"endTime":1226.5900000000001,"body":"talking about this beforehand,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1226.6000000000001,"endTime":1229.38,"body":"we were in agreement that the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1226.6000000000001,"endTime":1229.38,"body":"vast majority of folks who"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1229.38,"endTime":1232.25,"body":"are the loudest critics of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1229.38,"endTime":1232.25,"body":"the work have never actually"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1232.25,"endTime":1234.29,"body":"done DEI practice, right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1234.29,"endTime":1236.4,"body":"They typically aren't"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1234.29,"endTime":1236.4,"body":"involved in leadership or"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1236.4,"endTime":1240.17,"body":"org development, but being"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1236.4,"endTime":1240.17,"body":"contrarian on this, like"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1240.17,"endTime":1242.81,"body":"you mentioned, has paid some"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1240.17,"endTime":1242.81,"body":"folks really well, right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1243.17,"endTime":1243.8400000000001,"body":"Still is."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1244.1200000000001,"endTime":1247.3600000000001,"body":"But even in recognizing that"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1244.1200000000001,"endTime":1247.3600000000001,"body":"we can also recognize that"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1247.3600000000001,"endTime":1251.18,"body":"there is room for criticism"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1247.3600000000001,"endTime":1251.18,"body":"and you think DEI folks"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1251.18,"endTime":1252.1000000000001,"body":"need to be open to that."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1252.1100000000001,"endTime":1256.76,"body":"Talk to us about why that is and"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1252.1100000000001,"endTime":1256.76,"body":"how HR and DEI folks can better"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1256.76,"endTime":1260.43,"body":"apply feedback to respond to"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1256.76,"endTime":1260.43,"body":"criticism around these efforts."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1260.4950000000001,"endTime":1264.9950000000001,"body":"I think DEI"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1260.4950000000001,"endTime":1264.9950000000001,"body":"people that practice this work,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1265.435,"endTime":1266.915,"body":"should be beacons for dissent."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1267.4450000000002,"endTime":1268.4450000000002,"body":"What do I mean by that?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1269.185,"endTime":1271.9850000000001,"body":"You're not in a feedback loop"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1269.185,"endTime":1271.9850000000001,"body":"that allows you to understand"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1272.295,"endTime":1275.855,"body":"whether what you're doing is"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1272.295,"endTime":1275.855,"body":"resonating with the majority."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1276.5,"endTime":1280.93,"body":"And even the silent majority"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1276.5,"endTime":1280.93,"body":"that might be like I'm not"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1280.93,"endTime":1282.56,"body":"quite sure if this works for me."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1283.03,"endTime":1284.38,"body":"We didn't want to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1283.03,"endTime":1284.38,"body":"listen to that."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1284.39,"endTime":1287.95,"body":"And if you said anything,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1284.39,"endTime":1287.95,"body":"you were a target."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1288.5900000000001,"endTime":1291.05,"body":"And look, David, I'm"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1288.5900000000001,"endTime":1291.05,"body":"what they call Black."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1291.23,"endTime":1295.92,"body":"And I would criticize it, and"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1291.23,"endTime":1295.92,"body":"I would get attacked by people"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1295.92,"endTime":1298.1000000000001,"body":"that are supposed to be my"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1295.92,"endTime":1298.1000000000001,"body":"colleagues to the point where I"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1298.1100000000001,"endTime":1299.5900000000001,"body":"think some of them ostracize me."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1299.5900000000001,"endTime":1301.29,"body":"I don't know for sure,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1299.5900000000001,"endTime":1301.29,"body":"but they definitely don't"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1301.29,"endTime":1302.44,"body":"interact with me that much."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1303.19,"endTime":1306.47,"body":"Now, that was fine, the"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1303.19,"endTime":1306.47,"body":"ones that are Signal,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1306.54,"endTime":1307.6000000000001,"body":"I've seeked them out."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1308.72,"endTime":1310.8700000000001,"body":"I don't think we've done"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1308.72,"endTime":1310.8700000000001,"body":"a good job at taking that"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1310.8700000000001,"endTime":1313.96,"body":"dissent in and saying, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1310.8700000000001,"endTime":1313.96,"body":"what can we do to get better?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1314.5,"endTime":1316.46,"body":"And I think that level"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1314.5,"endTime":1316.46,"body":"of humility, that"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1316.46,"endTime":1317.79,"body":"level of ability to."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1318.395,"endTime":1321.545,"body":"master listening in such"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1318.395,"endTime":1321.545,"body":"a way that you can be"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1321.545,"endTime":1322.7050000000002,"body":"like, wow, I get that."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1323.185,"endTime":1323.855,"body":"I get that."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1323.855,"endTime":1326.915,"body":"That could put you in that"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1323.855,"endTime":1326.915,"body":"space versus you don't"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1326.915,"endTime":1328.065,"body":"understand what this is."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1328.065,"endTime":1329.7250000000001,"body":"You don't know about"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1328.065,"endTime":1329.7250000000001,"body":"the history of slavery."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1329.7250000000001,"endTime":1332.2450000000001,"body":"I was like, people"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1329.7250000000001,"endTime":1332.2450000000001,"body":"know stuff, right?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1332.565,"endTime":1334.515,"body":"If they don't know the history"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1332.565,"endTime":1334.515,"body":"of slavery, it's not up to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1334.515,"endTime":1337.2150000000001,"body":"you to teach them that unless"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1334.515,"endTime":1337.2150000000001,"body":"they want to hear about it"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1337.2150000000001,"endTime":1339.605,"body":"or they want to learn about"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1337.2150000000001,"endTime":1339.605,"body":"it, or you can give them a"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1339.605,"endTime":1341.015,"body":"resource that might be helpful."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1341.4750000000001,"endTime":1344.7450000000001,"body":"But you can't make them"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1341.4750000000001,"endTime":1344.7450000000001,"body":"wrong for disagreeing"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1344.7450000000001,"endTime":1345.765,"body":"with your approach."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1345.885,"endTime":1349.045,"body":"And I think that's where we"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1345.885,"endTime":1349.045,"body":"have an opportunity to say,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1349.045,"endTime":1351.1950000000002,"body":"yeah, that approach might"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1349.045,"endTime":1351.1950000000002,"body":"not work with this group."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1351.1950000000002,"endTime":1353.635,"body":"It might work with another,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1351.1950000000002,"endTime":1353.635,"body":"it might make one feel good."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1354.025,"endTime":1355.4850000000001,"body":"Some of it's going"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1354.025,"endTime":1355.4850000000001,"body":"to be effective."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1355.4850000000001,"endTime":1358.035,"body":"Some of it isn't if stuff's"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1355.4850000000001,"endTime":1358.035,"body":"not effective, stop it."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1358.605,"endTime":1361.645,"body":"But what people did is when they"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1358.605,"endTime":1361.645,"body":"start seeing it ineffective in"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1361.645,"endTime":1364.845,"body":"the DEI space, they made people"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1361.645,"endTime":1364.845,"body":"wrong for it being ineffective."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1365.325,"endTime":1368.935,"body":"So it's wrong because you"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1365.325,"endTime":1368.935,"body":"don't get it or you're racist"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1368.935,"endTime":1372.4550000000002,"body":"or you're homophobic or"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1368.935,"endTime":1372.4550000000002,"body":"you're sexist or whatever"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1372.515,"endTime":1376.675,"body":"people hurled at people versus"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1372.515,"endTime":1376.675,"body":"saying, wow, tell me more."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1377.135,"endTime":1381.4450000000002,"body":"There's a woman that talks about"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1377.135,"endTime":1381.4450000000002,"body":"calling in and I don't think"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1381.4450000000002,"endTime":1385.125,"body":"we, we called in because calling"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1381.4450000000002,"endTime":1385.125,"body":"in is all about relationships."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1385.675,"endTime":1389.03,"body":"Are we creating and building"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1385.675,"endTime":1389.03,"body":"the relationships that allow"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1389.03,"endTime":1390.6000000000001,"body":"organizations to flourish."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1391.28,"endTime":1395.3,"body":"Contrariness and conflict"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1391.28,"endTime":1395.3,"body":"doesn't allow organizations"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1395.3,"endTime":1396.89,"body":"to flourish, relationships do."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1396.89,"endTime":1399.99,"body":"And if you want to build"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1396.89,"endTime":1399.99,"body":"relationships and you want"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1399.99,"endTime":1403.99,"body":"to move closer and have more"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1399.99,"endTime":1403.99,"body":"contact and connection, you"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1403.99,"endTime":1406.47,"body":"can't spend a bunch of time"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1403.99,"endTime":1406.47,"body":"making people wrong and you"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1406.47,"endTime":1410.19,"body":"have to be willing to put"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1406.47,"endTime":1410.19,"body":"your own ego down or put your"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1410.19,"endTime":1413.0900000000001,"body":"own opinions or perspective"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1410.19,"endTime":1413.0900000000001,"body":"down and take the perspective"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1413.0900000000001,"endTime":1415.8700000000001,"body":"of another so that you can"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1413.0900000000001,"endTime":1415.8700000000001,"body":"see ways in ways that you"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1415.8700000000001,"endTime":1417.21,"body":"otherwise wouldn't be able to."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1417.64,"endTime":1419.65,"body":"In your writings,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1417.64,"endTime":1419.65,"body":"you emphasize the importance"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1419.65,"endTime":1423.3,"body":"of moving beyond either"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1419.65,"endTime":1423.3,"body":"or thinking and DI work."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1423.8600000000001,"endTime":1426.26,"body":"Elaborate on this for us a"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1423.8600000000001,"endTime":1426.26,"body":"little bit, this concept and"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1426.26,"endTime":1429.28,"body":"it's significant in creating"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1426.26,"endTime":1429.28,"body":"inclusive environments."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1429.69,"endTime":1431.65,"body":"I talked"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1429.69,"endTime":1431.65,"body":"about a little bit dichotomies"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1431.74,"endTime":1435.3,"body":"are not how organizations"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1431.74,"endTime":1435.3,"body":"work because organizations"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1435.3,"endTime":1436.65,"body":"are complex systems."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1436.74,"endTime":1439.67,"body":"And so complexity doesn't"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1436.74,"endTime":1439.67,"body":"work on either or things"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1439.67,"endTime":1440.8200000000002,"body":"are always emerging."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1440.8400000000001,"endTime":1441.72,"body":"Things are always."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1442.035,"endTime":1443.295,"body":"Coming into play."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1443.345,"endTime":1446.005,"body":"Sometimes they come into"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1443.345,"endTime":1446.005,"body":"play in our conversations."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1446.015,"endTime":1448.9950000000001,"body":"So there is no either, or"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1446.015,"endTime":1448.9950000000001,"body":"there is no us in them."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1449.015,"endTime":1451.405,"body":"All of that is an illusion"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1449.015,"endTime":1451.405,"body":"in your mind, similar to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1451.405,"endTime":1452.9450000000002,"body":"the boxes that I talk about."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1453.315,"endTime":1457.025,"body":"I talked about with Fred"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1453.315,"endTime":1457.025,"body":"Falker, these either or"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1457.135,"endTime":1461.7350000000001,"body":"dichotomies are at best"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1457.135,"endTime":1461.7350000000001,"body":"incomplete and at worst harmful."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1462.1950000000002,"endTime":1467.185,"body":"So if we are thoughtful to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1462.1950000000002,"endTime":1467.185,"body":"say, hey, either or, and"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1467.2150000000001,"endTime":1472.4850000000001,"body":"if maybe, possibly, perhaps"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1467.2150000000001,"endTime":1472.4850000000001,"body":"what's What am I missing?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1472.765,"endTime":1475.585,"body":"You actually come out with"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1472.765,"endTime":1475.585,"body":"something that people can get"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1475.585,"endTime":1478.805,"body":"their arms around that they co"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1475.585,"endTime":1478.805,"body":"create it with you and you don't"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1478.815,"endTime":1483.9450000000002,"body":"have the kind of what my mentor"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1478.815,"endTime":1483.9450000000002,"body":"Howard Ross calls conversational"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1483.9450000000002,"endTime":1485.175,"body":"networks of contention."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1485.185,"endTime":1488.605,"body":"You have camaraderie and"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1485.185,"endTime":1488.605,"body":"relationship, even in."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1488.96,"endTime":1491.02,"body":"Difference, and then"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1488.96,"endTime":1491.02,"body":"disagreement, you"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1491.04,"endTime":1491.99,"body":"still can have that."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1491.99,"endTime":1494.74,"body":"And that's why I think"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1491.99,"endTime":1494.74,"body":"either or thinking isn't"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1495.23,"endTime":1497.65,"body":"helpful or it doesn't work."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1498.0800000000002,"endTime":1498.98,"body":"Couldn't agree more."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1499.1200000000001,"endTime":1502.3300000000002,"body":"Reminds me of something I read"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1499.1200000000001,"endTime":1502.3300000000002,"body":"recently, this young guy was,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1502.3600000000001,"endTime":1505.24,"body":"he's freaking out about what's"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1502.3600000000001,"endTime":1505.24,"body":"going on in the U.S. right now."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1505.24,"endTime":1508.876,"body":"And he's talking about how"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1505.24,"endTime":1508.876,"body":"his family has basically told"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1508.876,"endTime":1511.7,"body":"him that he's ruining social"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1508.876,"endTime":1511.7,"body":"events and that cause he's"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1511.7,"endTime":1513.1200000000001,"body":"always bringing up politics."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1513.1200000000001,"endTime":1514.99,"body":"And he was like,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1513.1200000000001,"endTime":1514.99,"body":"is anybody else."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1515.29,"endTime":1517.29,"body":"What are you doing and"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1515.29,"endTime":1517.29,"body":"how are you handling this?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1517.29,"endTime":1519.81,"body":"I'm like, you should probably"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1517.29,"endTime":1519.81,"body":"just write to your congressman"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1519.81,"endTime":1522.2,"body":"or go to a protest or like"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1519.81,"endTime":1522.2,"body":"something that will make"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1522.2,"endTime":1524.19,"body":"you feel like you're doing"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1522.2,"endTime":1524.19,"body":"something about this."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1524.22,"endTime":1527.1000000000001,"body":"But you don't always have"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1524.22,"endTime":1527.1000000000001,"body":"to be the one in the room"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1527.4,"endTime":1529.39,"body":"when you're at a social"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1527.4,"endTime":1529.39,"body":"event to bring it up."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1529.39,"endTime":1531.3500000000001,"body":"You can leave space"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1529.39,"endTime":1531.3500000000001,"body":"for other people."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1531.3500000000001,"endTime":1535.16,"body":"And, it's either we're talking"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1531.3500000000001,"endTime":1535.16,"body":"about it or we're doing nothing."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1535.16,"endTime":1537.0,"body":"It's no, that's not"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1535.16,"endTime":1537.0,"body":"necessarily the case."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1537.03,"endTime":1537.8300000000002,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1537.8300000000002,"endTime":1539.8700000000001,"body":"There's a lot of different"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1537.8300000000002,"endTime":1539.8700000000001,"body":"ways to take action."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1540.18,"endTime":1541.64,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1540.18,"endTime":1541.64,"body":"think I remember this"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1541.64,"endTime":1542.6000000000001,"body":"line from Bob Marley."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1542.68,"endTime":1545.81,"body":"He said, one man is walking"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1542.68,"endTime":1545.81,"body":"in a billion man is barking."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1546.77,"endTime":1550.8200000000002,"body":"And there's a lot of barking"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1546.77,"endTime":1550.8200000000002,"body":"going on a lot, not a lot of"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1550.8200000000002,"endTime":1555.78,"body":"walking and being who you are in"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1550.8200000000002,"endTime":1555.78,"body":"the space of creating some type"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1555.78,"endTime":1557.3600000000001,"body":"of transformation, rightness."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1557.73,"endTime":1558.81,"body":"Which a lot of people want."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1558.81,"endTime":1559.95,"body":"And I like to be right."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1559.97,"endTime":1562.6100000000001,"body":"It's one of my favorite"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1559.97,"endTime":1562.6100000000001,"body":"things, but I know it never"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1562.6200000000001,"endTime":1564.0900000000001,"body":"has transformed anything."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1564.46,"endTime":1567.3500000000001,"body":"And so if you want to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1564.46,"endTime":1567.3500000000001,"body":"transform something, being"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1567.3500000000001,"endTime":1568.844,"body":"right, won't get you there."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1569.105,"endTime":1571.425,"body":"Being principled will,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1569.105,"endTime":1571.425,"body":"but being right will not."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1571.685,"endTime":1573.425,"body":"There's a growing"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1571.685,"endTime":1573.425,"body":"emphasis I would say on"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1573.435,"endTime":1577.775,"body":"belonging as being distinct"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1573.435,"endTime":1577.775,"body":"from diversity or inclusion."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1578.045,"endTime":1581.535,"body":"How do you see the relationship"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1578.045,"endTime":1581.535,"body":"between belonging and"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1581.605,"endTime":1583.255,"body":"measurable business outcomes?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1583.275,"endTime":1586.305,"body":"Like how can HR and DI"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1583.275,"endTime":1586.305,"body":"folks communicate that?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1586.7250000000001,"endTime":1589.035,"body":"This isn't just new"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1586.7250000000001,"endTime":1589.035,"body":"terminology but more of a"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1589.035,"endTime":1590.9950000000001,"body":"fundamental shift in approach."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1591.165,"endTime":1593.595,"body":"Yeah, I think a"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1591.165,"endTime":1593.595,"body":"lot of people took on belonging"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1593.615,"endTime":1598.515,"body":"on the Maslowian kind of space"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1593.615,"endTime":1598.515,"body":"over the past several years."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1598.515,"endTime":1600.165,"body":"There's been quite a few"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1598.515,"endTime":1600.165,"body":"books written about it."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1600.165,"endTime":1600.825,"body":"I think it's great."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1600.825,"endTime":1602.605,"body":"I think people need to feel"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1600.825,"endTime":1602.605,"body":"like they're a part of a"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1602.605,"endTime":1604.759,"body":"community, part of something"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1602.605,"endTime":1604.759,"body":"bigger than themselves."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1605.17,"endTime":1607.96,"body":"And I think when you look at"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1605.17,"endTime":1607.96,"body":"it like that, like I'm a part"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1607.96,"endTime":1610.9,"body":"of this thing and that's what"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1607.96,"endTime":1610.9,"body":"I was talking about earlier,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1610.9,"endTime":1614.3,"body":"when you build systems with"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1610.9,"endTime":1614.3,"body":"inclusion in mind, belonging"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1614.3,"endTime":1618.01,"body":"becomes normative because"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1614.3,"endTime":1618.01,"body":"it means that you feel like"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1618.01,"endTime":1620.88,"body":"you're a part of this thing and"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1618.01,"endTime":1620.88,"body":"you're creating the relational"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1621.25,"endTime":1624.0,"body":"kind of skills of what I call"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1621.25,"endTime":1624.0,"body":"relational fitness in our"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1624.0,"endTime":1625.47,"body":"emergent inclusion framework."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1625.865,"endTime":1629.685,"body":"To be able to sustain that,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1625.865,"endTime":1629.685,"body":"to build rapid rapport, to be"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1629.685,"endTime":1633.165,"body":"able to build connection, to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1629.685,"endTime":1633.165,"body":"be able to put teams together"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1633.165,"endTime":1636.505,"body":"and make things happen and know"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1633.165,"endTime":1636.505,"body":"how to deal with any tension"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1636.505,"endTime":1639.665,"body":"and complexity that comes with"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1636.505,"endTime":1639.665,"body":"people being from different"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1639.665,"endTime":1643.02,"body":"perspectives, backgrounds,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1639.665,"endTime":1643.02,"body":"etc. I think belonging is"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1643.17,"endTime":1644.4,"body":"important in that matter."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1644.4,"endTime":1647.55,"body":"It's not as easy to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1644.4,"endTime":1647.55,"body":"measure except for through"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1647.55,"endTime":1648.69,"body":"engagement surveys."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1649.02,"endTime":1652.5900000000001,"body":"I think it has to be coupled"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1649.02,"endTime":1652.5900000000001,"body":"with mattering because mattering"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1652.68,"endTime":1656.28,"body":"is a little more agentic to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1652.68,"endTime":1656.28,"body":"me because you feel like you"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1656.28,"endTime":1659.31,"body":"matter because your contribution"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1656.28,"endTime":1659.31,"body":"matters what you're doing,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1659.31,"endTime":1660.615,"body":"not just who you're being."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1660.615,"endTime":1663.39,"body":"I think being is great"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1660.615,"endTime":1663.39,"body":"belonging and being go hand"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1663.39,"endTime":1666.78,"body":"in hand, but mattering and"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1663.39,"endTime":1666.78,"body":"agency go hand in hand."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1667.17,"endTime":1670.81,"body":"So when people can"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1667.17,"endTime":1670.81,"body":"belong and matter."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1671.25,"endTime":1671.66,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1671.76,"endTime":1675.31,"body":"If people just have to choose"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1671.76,"endTime":1675.31,"body":"one, I think most people would"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1675.31,"endTime":1678.54,"body":"choose to matter because that"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1675.31,"endTime":1678.54,"body":"means their contribution is"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1678.54,"endTime":1681.8600000000001,"body":"respected, their contribution is"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1678.54,"endTime":1681.8600000000001,"body":"acknowledged, their contribution"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1682.19,"endTime":1685.74,"body":"is making an impact in the"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1682.19,"endTime":1685.74,"body":"places that they want to"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1685.75,"endTime":1688.0800000000002,"body":"make an impact, particularly"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1685.75,"endTime":1688.0800000000002,"body":"in organizational life."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1688.315,"endTime":1689.065,"body":"This"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1688.315,"endTime":1689.065,"body":"has been excellent."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1689.095,"endTime":1692.005,"body":"I could talk to you about"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1689.095,"endTime":1692.005,"body":"this stuff all day, but"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1692.005,"endTime":1694.615,"body":"unfortunately we do, we're"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1692.005,"endTime":1694.615,"body":"out of time for the episode."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1694.645,"endTime":1698.395,"body":"But before we go, I want to"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1694.645,"endTime":1698.395,"body":"give you a chance, to plug"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1698.405,"endTime":1701.295,"body":"what you're doing, what you"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1698.405,"endTime":1701.295,"body":"have going on, where people"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1701.295,"endTime":1702.625,"body":"can find you, all that."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1702.875,"endTime":1705.175,"body":"I'm on"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1702.875,"endTime":1705.175,"body":"LinkedIn, Amri B. Johnson."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1705.565,"endTime":1709.565,"body":"Inclusion Wins is my"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1705.565,"endTime":1709.565,"body":"company, inclusionwins.com."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1709.815,"endTime":1712.525,"body":"We have a Substack under"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1709.815,"endTime":1712.525,"body":"the name of my book,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1712.585,"endTime":1714.135,"body":"Reconstructing Inclusion."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1714.5900000000001,"endTime":1717.8600000000001,"body":"And you can find that on"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1714.5900000000001,"endTime":1717.8600000000001,"body":"Substack and other podcast"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1717.88,"endTime":1719.3,"body":"channels that you frequent."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1719.74,"endTime":1724.26,"body":"We'll soon have a free webinar"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1719.74,"endTime":1724.26,"body":"series that will happen pretty"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1724.26,"endTime":1728.18,"body":"regularly called The Emergent on"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1724.26,"endTime":1728.18,"body":"My Emergent Inclusion Framework."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1728.18,"endTime":1729.5800000000002,"body":"So that will be coming up soon."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1729.5800000000002,"endTime":1732.93,"body":"You'll see that come up so"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1729.5800000000002,"endTime":1732.93,"body":"you can sign up with that."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1733.13,"endTime":1736.19,"body":"If you read any of my blogs,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1733.13,"endTime":1736.19,"body":"we'll come back to you."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1736.26,"endTime":1740.02,"body":"If you sign up and you'll get"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1736.26,"endTime":1740.02,"body":"a chance to be a part of that."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1740.39,"endTime":1741.6000000000001,"body":"Those are the main things."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1742.1200000000001,"endTime":1745.2,"body":"And I hope that you connect."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1745.2,"endTime":1746.98,"body":"I'm totally looking"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1745.2,"endTime":1746.98,"body":"forward to it."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1747.28,"endTime":1747.72,"body":"Excellent."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1747.99,"endTime":1749.8400000000001,"body":"And the second thing is, we"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1747.99,"endTime":1749.8400000000001,"body":"have a little tradition here"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1749.8400000000001,"endTime":1752.2,"body":"on the podcast where you"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1749.8400000000001,"endTime":1752.2,"body":"get to ask me a question."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1752.55,"endTime":1754.67,"body":"So I want to turn it over"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1752.55,"endTime":1754.67,"body":"to you and you can ask me"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1754.67,"endTime":1755.5800000000002,"body":"something, anything you want."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1755.79,"endTime":1759.44,"body":"So David,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1755.79,"endTime":1759.44,"body":"you were in the diversity"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1759.45,"endTime":1763.95,"body":"space in a place that had"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1759.45,"endTime":1763.95,"body":"a huge impact on a lot of"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1763.95,"endTime":1765.8500000000001,"body":"companies for a long time."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1766.2,"endTime":1770.93,"body":"What's shifted and did you see"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1766.2,"endTime":1770.93,"body":"this shift coming when you were"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1770.93,"endTime":1775.51,"body":"there and what do you think"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1770.93,"endTime":1775.51,"body":"we could do different now in"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1775.51,"endTime":1778.5900000000001,"body":"this space as a result of what"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1775.51,"endTime":1778.5900000000001,"body":"what you saw and what we're"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1778.5900000000001,"endTime":1781.775,"body":"experiencing now in the At"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1778.5900000000001,"endTime":1781.775,"body":"least in the U.S. discourse."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1782.165,"endTime":1783.365,"body":"Oh, yeah, it did."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1783.365,"endTime":1785.135,"body":"We definitely did"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1783.365,"endTime":1785.135,"body":"see it shift, right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1785.145,"endTime":1789.575,"body":"Like when I first"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1785.145,"endTime":1789.575,"body":"started, it was 2021."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1789.645,"endTime":1792.9450000000002,"body":"And I think that collectively"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1789.645,"endTime":1792.9450000000002,"body":"across the board, most people"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1792.9450000000002,"endTime":1796.805,"body":"were very much On board,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1792.9450000000002,"endTime":1796.805,"body":"they believed that this"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1796.805,"endTime":1798.835,"body":"was at least something that"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1796.805,"endTime":1798.835,"body":"they should be doing if they"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1798.835,"endTime":1799.795,"body":"weren't already doing it."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1799.795,"endTime":1802.595,"body":"And you got the sense of a"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1799.795,"endTime":1802.595,"body":"lot of enthusiasm around it."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1802.835,"endTime":1806.415,"body":"And then within the space of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1802.835,"endTime":1806.415,"body":"just a couple of years, you get"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1806.415,"endTime":1809.775,"body":"enough Ron DeSantis talking,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1806.415,"endTime":1809.775,"body":"you get enough, you get Trump"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1809.775,"endTime":1813.255,"body":"out there saying enough wild"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1809.775,"endTime":1813.255,"body":"things and it starts to shift"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1813.255,"endTime":1814.65,"body":"and it did start to get shift."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1814.88,"endTime":1817.8400000000001,"body":"Internally more difficult"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1814.88,"endTime":1817.8400000000001,"body":"for the people that we"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1817.8400000000001,"endTime":1818.8300000000002,"body":"were working with, right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1818.8500000000001,"endTime":1820.55,"body":"Like they were"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1818.8500000000001,"endTime":1820.55,"body":"getting more pushback."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1820.56,"endTime":1822.64,"body":"They were getting"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1820.56,"endTime":1822.64,"body":"more resistance."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1822.67,"endTime":1825.8300000000002,"body":"And it was coupled at the same"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1822.67,"endTime":1825.8300000000002,"body":"time by a lot of critiques"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1825.8400000000001,"endTime":1828.44,"body":"from people that DEI was"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1825.8400000000001,"endTime":1828.44,"body":"supposed to benefit, right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1828.55,"endTime":1829.8400000000001,"body":"Because they weren't seeing it."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1830.15,"endTime":1832.41,"body":"It wasn't actually"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1830.15,"endTime":1832.41,"body":"translating to anything"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1832.41,"endTime":1833.95,"body":"meaningful in a lot of cases."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1834.3500000000001,"endTime":1834.93,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1835.25,"endTime":1838.0900000000001,"body":"Once that started to happen,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1835.25,"endTime":1838.0900000000001,"body":"then it started to become"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1838.3200000000002,"endTime":1841.19,"body":"like, when we got into 2023,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1838.3200000000002,"endTime":1841.19,"body":"the rhetoric had become much,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1841.22,"endTime":1844.56,"body":"much stronger now, Fox news is"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1841.22,"endTime":1844.56,"body":"talking about it constantly now,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1844.56,"endTime":1848.67,"body":"every network is got to have"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1844.56,"endTime":1848.67,"body":"some kind of debate about it and"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1848.96,"endTime":1852.4850000000001,"body":"you could see there was a wave"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1848.96,"endTime":1852.4850000000001,"body":"coming of running away from it."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1852.9650000000001,"endTime":1858.185,"body":"And my thing with it was,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1852.9650000000001,"endTime":1858.185,"body":"is you cannot let those loud"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1858.185,"endTime":1861.555,"body":"voices, like we talked about,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1858.185,"endTime":1861.555,"body":"and the people, these dissenting"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1861.555,"endTime":1864.515,"body":"opinions quite literally"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1861.555,"endTime":1864.515,"body":"change the language of what"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1864.515,"endTime":1865.845,"body":"you've been trying to do."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1865.925,"endTime":1869.2350000000001,"body":"Don't let them define it,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1865.925,"endTime":1869.2350000000001,"body":"and then in the culture,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1869.2350000000001,"endTime":1870.415,"body":"it's on their terms."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1870.76,"endTime":1873.3,"body":"We're keeping too much of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1870.76,"endTime":1873.3,"body":"this internal, then we've got"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1873.31,"endTime":1876.99,"body":"to control the narrative a"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1873.31,"endTime":1876.99,"body":"little bit better because like"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1876.99,"endTime":1881.1000000000001,"body":"we said, it got reduced down"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1876.99,"endTime":1881.1000000000001,"body":"to being solely about race."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1881.1000000000001,"endTime":1883.1000000000001,"body":"It's affirmative action 2."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1883.1000000000001,"endTime":1883.3600000000001,"body":"0, right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1883.3600000000001,"endTime":1884.89,"body":"They love to say"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1883.3600000000001,"endTime":1884.89,"body":"things like that."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1885.26,"endTime":1887.43,"body":"But we know if you were"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1885.26,"endTime":1887.43,"body":"on the ground, you know"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1887.43,"endTime":1888.5800000000002,"body":"that's not the case, right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1888.5800000000002,"endTime":1890.79,"body":"This work, it"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1888.5800000000002,"endTime":1890.79,"body":"benefited veterans."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1891.17,"endTime":1894.45,"body":"Parents, aging people,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1891.17,"endTime":1894.45,"body":"because you were talking about"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1894.51,"endTime":1898.3600000000001,"body":"ageism, it benefited people of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1894.51,"endTime":1898.3600000000001,"body":"different religious backgrounds."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1898.43,"endTime":1900.25,"body":"Everybody"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1898.43,"endTime":1900.25,"body":"is part of the mix."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1900.28,"endTime":1900.52,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1900.52,"endTime":1902.51,"body":"You could"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1900.52,"endTime":1902.51,"body":"find yourself in one of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1902.51,"endTime":1903.8400000000001,"body":"these groups real easy."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1904.17,"endTime":1905.3600000000001,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1905.79,"endTime":1909.1100000000001,"body":"But the thing is none of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1905.79,"endTime":1909.1100000000001,"body":"that was really at the core"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1909.1100000000001,"endTime":1912.69,"body":"focus of the narrative and"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1909.1100000000001,"endTime":1912.69,"body":"we let them redefine it is"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1912.69,"endTime":1913.73,"body":"essentially what happened."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1914.2250000000001,"endTime":1916.505,"body":"I think that was a big"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1914.2250000000001,"endTime":1916.505,"body":"mistake that everybody has"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1916.505,"endTime":1919.7350000000001,"body":"to learn from moving forward"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1916.505,"endTime":1919.7350000000001,"body":"is, you cannot let what is"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1919.7350000000001,"endTime":1923.535,"body":"essentially an effort to move"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1919.7350000000001,"endTime":1923.535,"body":"towards ensuring fairness."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1923.585,"endTime":1925.905,"body":"At its base level, what"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1923.585,"endTime":1925.905,"body":"are we working towards?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1926.105,"endTime":1929.825,"body":"We're trying to create a fair"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1926.105,"endTime":1929.825,"body":"and just workplace society."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1929.855,"endTime":1932.4950000000001,"body":"Not even, I use just but"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1929.855,"endTime":1932.4950000000001,"body":"and we're trying to move"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1932.4950000000001,"endTime":1935.535,"body":"in a direction where these"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1932.4950000000001,"endTime":1935.535,"body":"things aren't defining"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1935.535,"endTime":1939.055,"body":"people so much as their"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1935.535,"endTime":1939.055,"body":"potential, as their skills."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1939.335,"endTime":1943.585,"body":"And so we just lost the"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1939.335,"endTime":1943.585,"body":"battleground in that sense of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1943.615,"endTime":1946.935,"body":"like letting people control"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1943.615,"endTime":1946.935,"body":"the language and make it about"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1946.935,"endTime":1949.335,"body":"what they wanted it to be"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1946.935,"endTime":1949.335,"body":"about and not what the work was"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1949.335,"endTime":1950.7350000000001,"body":"actually supposed to be about."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1952.115,"endTime":1953.925,"body":"And it was something that"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1952.115,"endTime":1953.925,"body":"was incendiary and that"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1953.925,"endTime":1956.915,"body":"they could run an entire"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1953.925,"endTime":1956.915,"body":"campaign essentially behind."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1957.275,"endTime":1958.635,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1957.275,"endTime":1958.635,"body":"appreciate that response."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1958.655,"endTime":1959.625,"body":"You saw it coming."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1959.625,"endTime":1960.655,"body":"I think we both did."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1960.9850000000001,"endTime":1964.1950000000002,"body":"Now it's time to, to pivot"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1960.9850000000001,"endTime":1964.1950000000002,"body":"and not even pivot, but just"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1964.1950000000002,"endTime":1965.345,"body":"like to actually deepen."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1965.815,"endTime":1968.9950000000001,"body":"I think what I heard from you"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1965.815,"endTime":1968.9950000000001,"body":"just there is, all right, some"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1968.9950000000001,"endTime":1972.015,"body":"people captured a particular"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1968.9950000000001,"endTime":1972.015,"body":"narrative, it's incomplete,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1972.2450000000001,"endTime":1975.055,"body":"I can take their argument as"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1972.2450000000001,"endTime":1975.055,"body":"deep as they can, I can say"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1975.065,"endTime":1977.375,"body":"all the negative things that"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1975.065,"endTime":1977.375,"body":"they're saying, and then I"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1977.375,"endTime":1979.535,"body":"could basically, I can undo it."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1979.655,"endTime":1982.095,"body":"I can say, okay here's this,"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1979.655,"endTime":1982.095,"body":"here's what I heard from you."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1982.4850000000001,"endTime":1983.425,"body":"I don't think we're doing that."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1983.425,"endTime":1986.825,"body":"We're just flailing another"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1983.425,"endTime":1986.825,"body":"kind of insult back at people"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1986.825,"endTime":1990.385,"body":"instead of dissecting that"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1986.825,"endTime":1990.385,"body":"narrative and acknowledging"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1990.385,"endTime":1992.2050000000002,"body":"the parts that are true to me."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1992.2050000000002,"endTime":1993.1950000000002,"body":"That's the opportunity."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":1993.2050000000002,"endTime":1993.4950000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1993.7050000000002,"endTime":1994.365,"body":"Yeah, I agree."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1994.405,"endTime":1998.4750000000001,"body":"I think now I keep telling"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1994.405,"endTime":1998.4750000000001,"body":"everybody, I'm like, we"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1998.9450000000002,"endTime":2003.825,"body":"as a society are bad at"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":1998.9450000000002,"endTime":2003.825,"body":"community building, we just"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2003.825,"endTime":2005.015,"body":"don't do it well, right?"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2005.015,"endTime":2008.075,"body":"Like we're just so"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2005.015,"endTime":2008.075,"body":"individualistic and we just,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2008.355,"endTime":2011.025,"body":"we, this is something that we"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2008.355,"endTime":2011.025,"body":"have to learn and get better at."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2011.045,"endTime":2014.2050000000002,"body":"And if we get better at it,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2011.045,"endTime":2014.2050000000002,"body":"you can understand, you will"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2014.2050000000002,"endTime":2016.4550000000002,"body":"never agree with a lot of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2014.2050000000002,"endTime":2016.4550000000002,"body":"these opinions, but you can"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2016.4550000000002,"endTime":2020.045,"body":"start to understand what"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2016.4550000000002,"endTime":2020.045,"body":"shaped those opinions and"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2020.045,"endTime":2022.4750000000001,"body":"why those people have been"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2020.045,"endTime":2022.4750000000001,"body":"influenced to think that way."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2022.765,"endTime":2025.265,"body":"None of us, I wasn't"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2022.765,"endTime":2025.265,"body":"born with my perceptions"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2025.265,"endTime":2026.365,"body":"and my opinions either."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2026.415,"endTime":2029.435,"body":"I found that out because I had"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2026.415,"endTime":2029.435,"body":"lived experiences and the people"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2029.435,"endTime":2033.265,"body":"I was surrounded with were of"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2029.435,"endTime":2033.265,"body":"a certain way of thinking and"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2033.375,"endTime":2034.645,"body":"the same is true for them."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2035.045,"endTime":2037.925,"body":"And then how can we like"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2035.045,"endTime":2037.925,"body":"unpack that and help"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2037.925,"endTime":2040.125,"body":"them see a different way?"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":2040.2050000000002,"endTime":2040.545,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":2040.855,"endTime":2041.145,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2041.2350000000001,"endTime":2042.525,"body":"That's what"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2041.2350000000001,"endTime":2042.525,"body":"we've got to figure out."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":2042.535,"endTime":2042.9750000000001,"body":"That's it."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2043.145,"endTime":2044.665,"body":"I know I'm"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2043.145,"endTime":2044.665,"body":"preaching to the choir here."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":2044.7350000000001,"endTime":2046.665,"body":"No, but"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":2044.7350000000001,"endTime":2046.665,"body":"I, we're on the same page"},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":2046.675,"endTime":2047.845,"body":"and I'm, I appreciate it."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2047.915,"endTime":2048.815,"body":"Oh, that's awesome."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2048.895,"endTime":2050.085,"body":"Amri, thank you for coming on."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2050.085,"endTime":2050.645,"body":"It's been great."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2050.6749999999997,"endTime":2051.815,"body":"I really enjoyed having you."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":2052.015,"endTime":2052.515,"body":"My pleasure."},{"speaker":"Amri B. Johnson","startTime":2052.515,"endTime":2053.3849999999998,"body":"Thank you so much, David."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2054.535,"endTime":2055.955,"body":"All right listeners,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2054.535,"endTime":2055.955,"body":"if you haven't done so"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2055.955,"endTime":2058.235,"body":"already, if you're listening"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2055.955,"endTime":2058.235,"body":"to this podcast for the first"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2058.235,"endTime":2062.565,"body":"time, be sure to go on over"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2058.235,"endTime":2062.565,"body":"peoplemanagingpeople.com/subscribe,"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2062.585,"endTime":2064.005,"body":"get signed up for"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2062.585,"endTime":2064.005,"body":"our newsletter."},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2064.395,"endTime":2067.445,"body":"Until next time, build"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2064.395,"endTime":2067.445,"body":"some community, make those"},{"speaker":"David Rice","startTime":2067.445,"endTime":2068.895,"body":"connections, empathize."}]}