🎭Imposter syndrome, anti-perfectionism & being "unremarkable" with Lisa U Ferg

Ever feel like you need to have a wild “rags to riches” story to make your mark? 🤔 Lisa spills the tea on how imposter syndrome can creep in when we don’t have those over-the-top stories we often see online. Spoiler: It’s okay if your story doesn’t involve overcoming crazy odds.

Lisa breaks down how even without a dramatic transformation or an inspirational “backstory,” you can still show up as your authentic self and have a huge impact on the people you serve.

🎭 Stop waiting for a “perfect” moment.
🎭 Showing up as you are (flaws and all) is the best way to connect with your audience.
🎭Imposter syndrome is normal. Everyone goes through it.
🎭Be real. Show up. And let the magic happen.

Ever feel like you’re not “remarkable” enough? Drop a comment or hit us up on social—we’d love to hear how you’re dealing with imposter syndrome!

As always, please don't forget to hit Subscribe! xxx

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Music. Welcome to the mind school, the classroom for your mind and soul, where we design our lives from the inside out. Here you will find a human first approach to life, business and relationships, to create freedom, growth and constant evolution through mindset, emotional intelligence, leadership and connection to self. I'm your host, Breanna may educator, CEO mindset and business mentor, and my mission is to teach the things we were never taught at school so that no dream is left on the pillow and no purpose left unfulfilled. Here, you can expect a lot of laughs and thought provoking conversations as we squeeze every drop of juice from this beautiful, precious, crazy thing called life. Welcome back to another episode of the mind school podcast. I am so excited to introduce to you this guest who is a coach, who works in the fitness industry, who has worked in corporate leadership, and who, quite honestly, is one of my favorite people to listen to. This woman is a speaker, and I have been telling her since I met her, I want to see you on a TED Talk stage. And so she's just finished the mind school. I asked her at the end what is next, and it was very, very pleasing to my soul to hear that she's going to be doing more speaking, and she's really stepping into that power that she is. I'm really excited in this conversation, we talked about this is someone who's been in the coaching space since she was 11, so there is a lot of golden nuggets here, but really, this was a conversation about showing up as your authentic self and around the shadows that Lisa discovered, and something we spoke about at the mind school, which I resonated with a lot, and that is unremarkability, just being an average person, an everyday human who doesn't really have a crazy rags to Richard's story, who hasn't overcome insane amounts of adversity and trauma, and yet wants to do incredible good things in this world, and almost the shame and shadow that comes from that when you compare yourself to you know almost every coach out there and every successful big, big dog out there, who will you know? Tony Robbins comes to mind when he talks about he had an abusive or an alcoholic mother and he didn't know where his next meal was coming from, and Oprah, who was abused and came from all this adversity. And we just spoke about sometimes the weird stuff that goes on internally when you almost feel like not enoughness that comes from I don't have enough of this trauma and sadness and adversity to unpack. So am I worthy in this space? And it was a very interesting conversation. We spoke about that. We spoke about integrity and imposter syndrome, and how there's a fine line between being a really deeply embodied coach who is honest and is in complete integrity with what you say and preach online, but then the shadow that comes with that, where sometimes you put pressure on yourself to be perfect. And so there's a lot of golden nuggets here, not just for coaches, but for anyone who is just human in that's really, I mean, at the end of the day, that's what this podcast is. It's humaning, and it's messy and it's beautiful and it's perfect, and it's all the beautiful, crazy things. And so in this conversation, we unpack all of that. Lisa Ferguson is a absolute laugh to listen to, and filled with so many knowledge bombs and truth bombs along the way. So I hope you enjoy this. If you love it, tag us. We have tagged her in the show notes. And if you're interested in the mind school, make sure you go to the link in the show notes. We are sold out for 2024 and we'll be opening for 2025 very soon. Okay. Welcome back to the mind school podcast. I am very excited to have this conversation with an incredible and unremarkable human which we're going to get into. I don't mean that in the way that it sounds. We will get into this in a moment, but we've been talking off air, and I actually rudely interrupted this beautiful guest, who is Lisa you Ferg, I interrupted her and said, Stop talking. There's so much gold and fire and interesting stuff coming from your mouth. And I want to know, I want to know it live on air, so it's an authentic reaction. And so first of all, welcome to the mind school podcast. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Hashtag goals. So what we were talking about? So Lisa actually was a long story. With Lisa and I, Lisa became an accidental friend because I was on the side of the road with my bike, and she was like, well, that's cool. Like this is when we were prepping for Europe. So we had our bikes all packed up. We were doing a practice run, and we just ended up chatting on the site like we were there for two hours in the sun. I remember getting so burnt, so burnt under that sun. But I was like, this chick's fucking cool. And over the last three years, we've sort of, yeah, developed a friendship, and then you came to the mind school recently, and it's been really cool to witness everything that you're doing in this world, which has actually started a long, long time ago, which is why I interrupted you, because I said to you, like you've been coaching for a really long time. So when did your coaching start, and what was your context for coming into the mind School? Thank you for having me, and thank you for asking that question. And I actually think it was one of the questions that I asked, coming into mind school as well, and it got me thinking about it. I am 37 in a couple of weeks, and I've been coaching since I was 11, and I didn't even realize it until I got to reflect on that question. So thank you for asking it. Keep that in there. And it was when I'd been playing netball, and I was kind of nudging up towards cadets and rep and things like that. And then as a part of giving back to your association, they ask you to give back and help coach the younger ones. So throw and catch a ball on the net. Set go on the little net of kids. So I got my first coaching gig when I was 11, officially, but I'm also the oldest of four, so there was very much, a lot of mum going here, hold this, change this, feed this, and crowd control whether ask for or not. So it's kind of like being a little bit instilled right from the word go. So it's unsurprising that we're here, and I'm still unsurprising. It's so unsurprising. And anyone who meets you, and this was something that was reflected back to you quite often at school, was when you speak, people just want to listen. You've got this energy and this way of communication that draws people in. So that was really cool, just to see that reflected back to you so many times. But what I find really interesting. There is so often people say, Oh, I'm not a coach, but I'm not a coach. I'm not a coach. And I think that's even that netball, being an older sibling, being a human who works with human, gets the best out of humans, supports humans, creates space for humans, impacts and influences humans. That typically, is coaching, and you just are, whether you're because you've had such a, what would we say, such a diverse career, you've had so many things that you've experimented with, and you're so passionate about so many different things. But I would argue, and I've said to you before, you're always coaching, you're always teaching. That's who you are, and so from netball to where you are now, like, what else have you been doing in the coaching space? Holy moly, that's a large question. And I think, I think you're right, and it's, it's humbling and also a little bit or piece for me to reflect on myself and the fact that I've been doing good work in the world for a little while. Because if we look at the golden thread of all of the diverse and dynamic things that I've experienced and that I've thrown myself in in the last however many years, the golden thread that's running in all of those is just getting around good people doing good work in the world, and whether it's helping little kids learn how to throw and catch a ball, whether it's getting around like sporting the sporting arena has always been a big thing for me. Sport fitness, the physical expression, getting our body to do things in a way that makes us feel good has been a really big thing for me, and we'll talk about why that is in a minute. Just like you've turned your pain into purpose. So have I in a number of different ways, and so whether it's leadership and culture coaching, I had another chat with a lady yesterday. She was amazing, like, she's got a bunch of teenagers that work for her and for most of her her workforce. And she's like, I just want the kids to love where they work to the point that every other kid in the town is jealous of the fact that, oh, I want to work at the cinema. I want to work for these guys. I'm like, Yeah, and that starts with culture. So then, how do we coach these kids, and how do we coach our leaders to show up and work and be in this space of, oh, this is what I want, and this is how I want it to be. It's still good people doing good work in the world. That's a veteran in the coaching industry, really, because I read somewhere recently that most coaches last five years in the profession, and then they leave, particularly personal trainers. In the fitness industry, there's there's a really high churn rate. So you are a veteran and so diverse. Your coaching experience goes from fitness to leaderships to corporates. It's really incredible to witness. And like I said, I'm not surprised, because you are someone that people naturally gravitate toward, but you mentioned that you turned your pain into purpose, which is what I've you know most coaches are coaching on the thing that they needed so badly themselves at one point in time. So Where has your sort of that journey come? From what was your pain that you've transmuted? Yeah, that's awesome. And I love that you just said that, because that was one of my key takeaways from the mind school, was we teach which we ourselves most needed to receive. And so I was and we chatted. You touched on it earlier, about being unremarkable, like I had a really unremarkable childhood growing up. I lived rurally, you know, just outside of Brisbane, back in the day when it was the asshole of the world, and we just couldn't wait to get out of there when we were kids, because there was just nothing to do, and it was bum Bucha, nowhere and all the things. And I don't know whether this had anything to do with it or not, but like, I was I was a really overweight kid. I wasn't a sloth. I wasn't inactive. It was the 90s, so there was no socials, there was no iPads, there was no nothing. We still had to get up and turn the channel over on the TV ourselves, and it was back in the day where, like dad come home from work and plonked himself on the couch with his two beers, and we were the TV runners, and we didn't get a choice of what we watched on TV. It was just whatever was on, and that's what you got. And it was cricket all summer, and it was always the news at six o'clock. And I was at mum and dad's last week, and it is still the news at six o'clock. So that's great love mom and dad. I think our dads would be mates. Fauci props, cricket, footy, we're good, yeah, 100% 100% anyway, but me and my dad go for different footy teams, so there's a little bit of Yeah, no, yeah, but that's okay. So I used to just love food. I come from a family that used to get around food. We I'm one of 13 cousins on one side, and then aunties and uncles everywhere. And every single Sunday we'd go to my grandparents place, and it was like Christmas, every Sunday morning, like every Sunday, and there was just food. So food was things that we used to celebrate and things that we used to commiserate, and I'm bored and I have a feeling and all the things, it's but, but there's nothing special or remarkable about that Breanna, because I feel like that's everyone you know, when it's long and hot and summer and there's nothing to do when you're seven, I'm like, I'll have a nice block or four. You know, it's just the way that it is and the way that it goes. And let me tell you, nothing's really changed. Like, Oh, having a feeling I'm going to make this feel a little bit sweeter with something sugar laden, or I'm tired, or on this or on that, like the fact I have awareness around it doesn't change the fact that it's a simple human behavior that's been driven by these dopamine smashing foods. How good's dopamine? We're only human, but there's nothing special about that, because everyone is a human. I just come from a place where I ate more than I extended. I still was really active, played a lot of sport. I just love food, and nothing's changed, and I hated myself for that for a long time. I remember when I was in grade one, and you know when the teacher raids used to come in, and you'd do like little activities, and they'd ask you questions. We've just had the Father's Day one, so I've just seen the answers to my partner's kids on their Father's Day questionnaire. It's so funny. Yeah, and I remember. I don't even this memory is only just popping up for me. Now, I remember my friend Travis's mum was there. She was the teacher aide, and she was like, What's your favorite food? Keep in mind, I'm five. I'm five years old here, what's your favorite food? I don't like food. I hate food. And she's like, Oh, really, you hate all food? And I was like, yes. And she's like, why? I was like, because it makes me fat, and I don't like being fat, like I'm five. And so for a long time, I hated the fact that I loved food, even from a really young age. And so I fought that, but then entered 20 years later and a whole bunch of disordered eating and a whole heap of body image dysmorphia that didn't end up being the answer. Hating the food was not helpful. So I've had to really embrace the fact that I love food and what a gift it is. And this is where I think my pain and like, follow that all the way through till about like, when I was 13 or something, and I and unfortunately, we do have an epidemic of childhood obesity now, but I was the fat kid in the class when there was only one in each grade, and that was me and maybe one other chick in in this in the grade six classroom, one one over. And so, you know, you become the butt of all jokes. But I got really, really good at being my own worst bully, so that if I put myself down the worst, then nothing anyone else could say to me is any worse than what I would say about myself. And so I get a bit of feedback. Now I'm pretty self critical, and I'm like, Yeah, that's a learned behavior. That's a that's a safety survival mechanism. Then I got to 13, and started going through puberty, and then the boys were starting to look and I'm like, Oh, well, you know, I want to have a boyfriend. No one's going to want to date the fat girl. And so then I dropped 25 kilos in that year, got a boyfriend. That was great, and then put 40 kilos on in the next couple of years after that, we broke up. I was about 19 by then, and went, Oh, I. Don't want to be fat anymore. Lost 40 kilos again. Felt really good. Did it with a personal trainer. Was the best I'd ever felt like. I was like, Oh, this is actually what this feels like. This is an amazing feeling. And I want everybody to feel like this. That's where I kind of flipped that pain journey into my purpose, going, Oh, I've overcome this. Now I want to help other people, but then it's interesting. So then I went to school, I went to PT school, got the piece of paper, went into a gym, and was like, Holy crap. I have massive imposter syndrome, because I feel like I still have all of these underlying issues. I still have issues with food. I'm still over training. I might have a touch of disordered eating. I might look a certain way on the outside, but I'm having all of these certain thoughts on the inside. And I remember this one guy actually paid me upfront for 10 sessions, like $600 or something at the time, that was a lot of money as a new PT in the industry, and I gave it back to him. I said, Sorry, I'm not good enough to train you. I'm not going to take your money. I don't want to take I don't want to steal from you. I don't feel like I'm going to be able to help you to the degree which I feel like you deserve to be helped. And then I went back to a PT school, and I'm glad that I did, because I actually had a better education. And what you were talking about before with PTS having a big turnover, and I'm a PT teacher now in like in part, I still mentor for that same PT school, and it's how my partner and I met. Actually, finally, it was a stitch up. But anyway, we won't talk about that. I say to people, they're like, what's the number one piece of advice you'd give new trainers or new fitness professionals in the industry? I'm like, Go and do your business degree. Go and learn now to run your PT business, you might be the best PT in the world, but if you're the world's best kept secret because you don't know how to market, and not even I'm not talking Instagram influences, I'm talking about real deep seated marketing philosophies and principles, which you would know as a journal that unless you know how to communicate that and unless you know how to meet your market where they're at, do you even know what your market is? Do you even know what a target market is? Oh, my God, I will come and teach you how to be a PT once you go and learn how to actually business. Because being a PT versus running a PT business is very different. Same with being a barista versus owning a cafe, same with being a mechanic owning a shop, right? Yeah, a coach, even being a coach on in the online space, a mindset coach, you can be the best mindset coach, but if you don't understand marketing, if you don't understand sales, if you don't understand business, it's so unfortunate. I see it all the time, and it's really unsexy, and people get shitty at me because it's unremarkable. There's nothing special about that. There's nothing novel about that. Yeah, I'm just like, that's the truth. And not everybody is cut out to be a business owner in the craft in which they are an expert. Not everyone can do that, and that's okay. Like, I I've learned. I was actually chatting to Paul about this while I was at mine school. I've had a really big shift in the last couple of years going I can own my business, and I can run my own business, and I'm really, really good at it, but I actually really would much prefer to be in partnership and do it with someone, because that's my preference, and that's what I would prefer. But I know that about myself. I've always said, like, you're such an incredible teacher, a great speaker, and you're such a good entrepreneur, but I love that you bring this conversation, because it is so much more than just the craft, you can be the best coach, the best fitness, the best PT, the best, the best anything. But unfortunately, there's more that goes into it. So obviously, you've you've had your sort of aha moment where you're like, actually, I don't know if I want to be the business owner. I want to be in partnership. I want to be an entrepreneur. What was it about building CO for anyone who's thinking of having a coaching business, or has a coaching business, what are some of the realities that you probably weren't prepared for? This is such a good segue back in, because I got to a point and then went on and seen a crowd told you this would happen. Let's let's come back in. We're good. And so when I got all of my PT stuff, went back to school, got a great education, where I did my Advanced Diploma of of business, and they actually understood the importance of that. And that's where I've kind of come into this. Yeah. So did all of that. It was amazing. Was lit up, was on fire. My partner at the time were both in the industry and were like, oh, let's buy a gym. Amazing. Let's go and do that. Bought a gym, had a bunch of team members working for us. Went really well, like, increased revenue by 900% the first year, won a bunch of wank awards, like, whatever. Nothing special, nothing remarkable. I just was there doing the unsexy things. And everyone's like, This is amazing. I'm like, No, it's not. And then some processes and say, seriously, it's really not. And then someone's like, wow, you're going so amazing. You have x percent of personal training penetration in your business, which is four times the national average, come and speak at our conference. And I was like, oh my god, I cannot come and speak at your conference, keeping in mind that. That my lifelong dream is to stand on the stages of the world and speak to people. I had that dream when I was 19, but then said, No, I've gotta go and live some life so people actually have a reason to listen to me. And I was, this is my first big opportunity. I was about 24 I'm like, oh my god, I can't. I can't, I can't. And the reason why I couldn't Breanna is because I was a gym owner who had, again, put on 40 kilos and didn't have any pants that fit me and had to go to Target and buy a pair of size 20 pants in order to go and present at the National fitness conference about how good my gym was going in personal training penetration in in that market above the national average. But here's me going, Oh, I'm now a fat gym owner, and this is really embarrassing, and I've got all of these bums and guns and boobs and fake tans looking at me, and they're going really like, I'm not going to take her seriously. Look at that. That's crazy. That's wild. And so then this massive imposter syndrome came in, because suddenly, like, my personal trainers were on the cover of oxygen magazine with all of their abs out, but I was sitting in the back smashing pizza and rum cans on a Saturday night because I didn't know how I fit into my business. I didn't know how, like, I was a great personal trainer. But then I took myself out of personal trainer into business owner, and that was a whole different learning curve that was really massive. And I promise I'm getting somewhere with this, and I will come back around to your question. And I was, like, 110 kilos, and was walking up the street one day. It was a Sunday afternoon. I will never forget it. I was walking up past the show grounds. It was Magpie season, so I was looking out for those bastards. And I was walking up going, Lisa, you have got one of the most successful personal training gyms in the country. You've done your cert three and four in fitness twice. You teach and mentor cert three and fitness to other people. You help other people open gyms all around the country, like I was doing that as well, flying around helping other people that wanted to open a gym do that. I'm doing all of this shit. Why can't you help yourself? What is wrong with you? You know all the things. What is this about? And then it just dropped into me and like, knowledge is power. I know this thing, so why am I not powerful in this? And I was like, You know what? Knowledge isn't power. Applied knowledge is power, and it seems really primary now, but remember, I was 2425 had a lot going on, and that's still pretty young to have a bunch of things happening. And then I suddenly realized that knowledge is the key, but you've still gotta put that key into the door, unlock the thing, open the door, and walk through it. And so here's me going, I have all of this knowledge. I have all of this knowledge, but didn't realize I personally wasn't doing anything with it. And you talk a lot about, like the embodiment of the thing that you're teaching. So then bunch of things were coming up around this for me, like, holy moly, that's amazing. And in that I started changing my life. I started actually using the gym that I owned. I started actually utilizing the personal trainers that I employed. I actually started doing the eight week challenge meal plan that I wrote for other people, like, hands up. Like, I don't know if the people that supported me were incredibly amazing humans or really fucking dumb, because if I was them and I was looking at me, I'd be like, be fucked if I'm joining her gym. What's wrong with her? And this has got nothing to do with fat shaming or saying that you have to be a certain size or that you have to be ripped, cut and shredded in order to be in the fitness in the in fitness industry, absolutely not at all. I'm in a different season of my life, and I still struggle with that imposter syndrome thing, because it's ingrained in my brain that, oh, I don't have ABS there for, I've got nothing to add. I don't have ABS there for, I've got nothing to add. However, what I'm not is a body building coach. I am not a bodybuilding coach because I am not embodied in that. I am not ripped, cut and shredded, and to be quite honest, I don't want to be because I really enjoy cake, and my birthday is coming up, so fuck you like seriously. But what I do love and what I can do is help people move safely. People that want to start moving, or they maybe once did, and they haven't for a while, and they're scared about the safety of exercise. That was a question that I used to have to ask as a young PT, going, Oh, are you concerned about the safety of exercise? At 24 I'm like, Who the fuck would be worried about the safety of exercise? Seriously, exercise is fine. Well, then I've blown my back out have 700 injuries, and now I'm like, Oh, I can't do anything. I am concerned about the safety of injury, and so what I can and what I am embodied in is safe movement. I'm not embodied in ripped, cut and shredded. So I'm not going to try and coach rip, cut and shredded. But what I can do in my very, very unremarkable, very average size, 12 to 14. Body still fit, healthy and strong, even though I'm not ripped, cut and shredded, still kind of injured, things hurt, I can help other people who are in the smack, bang middle of that unremarkable life. We don't have a huge stage we're walking on. We don't have a big story of overcoming like. Everyone's like, oh my god, Lisa, you've lost 40 kilos three times. That's amazing. I'm like, No, it's not. It's fucking stupid three times. Mate. Like, seriously, there's nothing special about that, but I think we forget, and especially in this I'm getting on the high horse and get a little bit sweaty now. I'm like, she is on she's on, boys. Yeah, good luck getting a word in on your own podcast. Bree but what is really remarkably unremarkable about life is that it's not lived on the edges of those things. It's lived in the middle. It's lived in and nature seeks balance, whether we like it or not, we're designed and whether, whether we are driving it or not. Nature will always seek some kind of balance. You know, if you put some kind of acidic food in your body, your body's going to try and make it alkaline. We need to beat a certain pH, yes, beat ourselves that, right? PH or not. We're always seeking balance. Yeah, in the middle of all of this 2024, life of you know, you can make $200,000 a minute in five seconds and live the life of your dreams and be you know, come on my eight week challenge and lose 25 kilos in five minutes. Like people used to say to me, they come to me and say, Lisa, I've got 20 kilos to lose in four weeks for my sister's wedding. I said, got a knife. We're going to cut your leg off. Yeah. We are going to get that result, yeah, quickly interrupting this episode to let you know that the mind school method is sold out for 2024 and we are very close to opening enrollment for 2025 this is the one stop shop certification for coaches who want to upskill so that you can create more impact, more money and more freedom. If you or your clients are getting stuck, looping on old patterns, holding yourself back, or just simply want to catapult to your next level, the mind school method is the place to learn how to powerfully lead yourself so that you can get the best out of your clients and all the people you love. It is six days. It is immersive, it is transformative, and it is where you will learn the best of the best coaching tools from NLP, mindset, Shadow Work and emotional embodiment so that you can be the best coach you can be, and have an overflowing heart and bank account to match your overflowing toolkit. The link for the wait list is in the show notes. Now back to the episode. So I think it's really important and and this imposter syndrome that we hear thrown about, and is it because you're not embodied, or is it because I think that there's just so much around dopamine and the big hit and the big novelty and the big this and that, and the second that that really, really big hide wears off. We're looking for the next thing, because all of that is so accessible now. And as humans, we're, we're wired for novelty. I am. I love novelty. We made breeze coming to Brisbane, I want to go see her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's that's kind of how I've then turned my my pain, into that purpose. And what I learned through that sense is that you can know all of the things, but unless you're doing the things, you're not actually empowered. You're just my mate, my mate's mate. It's weird. Used to say to know and not to do is not to know. And that's that's not a new concept. We've We've all heard that before, and full of one liners. So if you need a bunch of one liners, you know where to come. So true. I love that you've brought that up, because I would even argue that to know without implementing is actually probably more disempowering, because then you get this mental noise of, I should know I know better. What am I doing? I know better than this. And the more you know, but don't implement typically, the more you just beat yourself up 100% and I heard it at the my school. Someone said, no better. Do better. And I was like, because I'm like, Yeah, I know better, but I'm not doing better now I hate myself. Oh, that's better. Whereas previously, if you don't know what you don't know, you can live in ignorant bliss. You can also get yourself blown up if you don't know that, you know Gaza is a war zone, and you just go on for a little walk down the street. Yeah, be educated. But I would 100% agree with that. If you know better, but you don't do better, that's a whole different that's a whole different realm of of shatter. We'll call it, yeah, bucker, whatever. There's so many things that I want to pull out from there, but I think what's really for people that are listening and are like, Whoa. Okay, so there's the embodiment piece one, it sounds like it was really important for you to dissolve that imposter syndrome that your actions, behaviors and everything aligned with the identity and the offers that you had within your business. So I always, and I say this a lot, if you want to get rid of imposter syndrome. Tidy. Up out where you're out of integrity, essentially. However, what I will also say is the caveat to that then becomes a shadow side. And I've seen this a lot, especially I've had this conversation with some graduates of the mind school, because I'm so big on coach with integrity, the thing that you're preaching and teaching, make sure you live it and breathe it, because otherwise you're going to feel like an imposter all the time. However, the shadow side to that is sometimes when you put integrity so high up on your values list, which is a great thing, it can actually stop it makes you feel like you need to be perfect. And so integrity and embodiment does not mean perfection. And I've seen people like I had a coach say to me, Oh, I don't know if I can coach on that thing, because I'm not fully 100% same. I don't have ABS, I don't have this, I don't have that. I'm not fully 100% embodied. And it's like, whoa. We're not saying imperfect in your embodiment, but have a level of standard where it's your norm. And I think that there's an important conversation there around embodiment doesn't have to mean perfection, and it's a very fine line. I think that if there, if there's anything that anyone's taking away from today, it's that 100% because you're either living in your own delusion, like I was when I had the gym and 40 kilos overweight, going, this is fine. It's not fine. It's not fine for a gym owner, and it's not really super fine for anyone, because I knew better and I wanted to do better, and I wasn't like for my own personal expression and experience of my life. But then fast forward 15 years, and this only happened less than 12 months ago, I was approached to do some coaching, some some fitness coaching in a gym here in town. And I was like, there is no way that I am in good enough shape to be a coach standing at the front of the room telling people what to do right now. And he looked up and down. He's like, why I was like, I am I'm out of shape at the moment. No, I just wasn't ripped, cut and shredded, perfect. You're perfectly healthy. I'm still, like, at that time, I was still the biggest and the baddest in the gym. But for my but for my brain, my immediate response was, No, I can't. I'm not good enough. I'm not perfect, so now I'm not going to show up at all. And that goes back to that shame about, yeah, but Lisa, you're making this about you, not about the people that you're serving. And so suddenly now you need to consider, are you willing to take on the shame of ripping these people off from a great coaching experience and mate like and there's people in that gym now that have got amazing results in their body, and they're feeling fitter, healthier and stronger than they ever had in their life at 50 and 60 years old. And I contributed to that. Imagine if it was something that I said that I didn't even know, and I'm not being an egotistical Yeah, it was me, and how great am I? I'm like, so anti that it's ridiculous. But imagine if one of the click things that helped that person feel really good in their body, maybe for the first time ever, was something that I said, mm, if I didn't show up that day because I was too busy about the fact that my arse is in size 12 instead of size eight, then what a shame that is like when we place of service, like, yes, like you said, it's a fine line. It's the fine line between delusion and and showing up, not even despite your imperfections, but by virtue of them. Yeah, if you're showing up by virtue of your imperfections, you're going first so that your people have permission to go further. I remember when I first joined the gym, I would not let myself join the gym until I had lost 20 kilos first. Isn't it crazy? Yeah, I spent 12 months losing 20 kilos first, and then I joined the gym because now I'm good enough to join the gym. Oh, crazy. It's so crazy. You know, that's a huge thing with coaches, like we talked about this in the Shadow Work module during the mind school. Coaches typically have a very strong identity, or they build or construct an identity online, and that can become like, I always say identity is your superpower, until it is a weapon that is for your own destruction. And so let's say that you call yourself a mindset coach, you would want to hope that your mindset is pretty solid, that you're a pretty resilient human, that people can look to you in all sorts of situations and know that you've got a really resilient, emotional you know you've got that covered. You're You're a strong ass person in the mind. However, if that then becomes, and I, I've had my own experience with this three, four years of being missed mindset, missed mindset, missed mindset. And it's like, holy shit, you've got to be really conscious not to then make sure that you don't hold shame when you have a bad day, when you are like, Fuck my mindset today is fucking terrible. And I've had moments where I'm like, You know what? Fuck positive mindset. I want to sit in a little bit. Whole I want to feel sorry for myself. I want to have a bad day, but if I've got this online persona about being this mindset, I would feel too much shame to then show up like that, and then imposter syndrome comes in. So it's like, yes, embodiment to a level. We don't want delusion. I love what you said there about delusion, but also be conscious of where you've created an identity that then creates shame or makes you blind to where you're not. In fact, that thing, because we become blind to ourselves through our identity, we have an identity week we're not open to where we're not. That thing, it feels like an attack on who we are. So I think that there is just a huge piece there for coaches or anyone in the online space to really look at who is your identity online, and has that created shame around when you're not that thing? And or have you become blind to where there might be some incongruency there? Amazing, so huge. And so with that you've spoken about like that was one of the ways that you were able to tidy up some imposter syndrome, and you started actually applying the knowledge. You started using the gym What are, and I want to, I really want to touch on this at the end of the mind school, you said something that fucking resonated with me. And I thought, Lisa, you need to create, like, a keynote about this. It's incredible. And you said you had some imposter syndrome in the coaching space, you have some imposter syndrome around not having a big rag rags to riches story, not having a remarkable adversity story that you overcame. You felt like you're just like the country kid came up, you know, came up from in the country with good parents and a good childhood, and there's none of this Tony Robbins style, Oprah style, abuse and famine and this huge story that makes you quote, newsworthy, because, you know, we love the newsworthy brand story. And I was like, oh my god, Lisa, same and you were saying that you feel some imposter syndrome around I don't have that, and almost a sense of shame. So would you mind speaking into that for anyone else? I think there'd be so many people listening who are like, Oh my God, I've been feeling like I need to pull out this huge, big, sad story. And maybe there isn't one, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's so interesting, I don't even I think it was in the mind school. Seriously, shameless plug. Go to the mind school at the end, like there's no other conversation to be had about it. And because my channel was open, it just dropped in, like, this whole concept about unremarkability. And I remember having a conversation with a colleague of mine a couple of years ago, and we were in a sales and marketing space, and they're like, Oh, you just need to tell your story. Tell your story, connect with your people. And we were seeing like, these massive stories around, oh, I had no money, and now I'm rich, and I had this awful thing happen to me, and I overcame it, and I was like, I don't have that. Like, yeah, my dad yelled at me. It was 1995 every dad yelled and got spanked, and you got spanked. That's just the way that it happened. And it doesn't mean you were traumatized either. Like, that's the other thing. It doesn't mean I feel like this society at the moment, sorry to interrupt you, but I'm, I'm so passionate about this. It's like we, especially in the personal development space, people are going on this trauma treasure hunt and looking back over things and being like, trying to find their trauma, and sometimes it actually just wasn't there. I'm the same as you. I was probably smacked, and I had a dad who might have yelled at me, you know what? I fucking loved my I never felt traumatized. It just was what it was. And so I'm not going to build or cling on to this story that life was so hard, because the truth was I didn't perceive it that way. I actually think I had a great childhood, but now I feel like, oh, where's my brand stories, exactly what you said, Yeah, and I'm not going to turn something into something that it's not like, and it's not even about what other people think is huge and great and amazing and remarkable. Oh, Lisa, you own this gym. Oh, Lisa, you have this bloody fitness Australia. Telstra, Business Woman of the Year nomination. Blah, blah, while you're 25 that's great. I'm like, I don't think that it is like, I'm not, I'm not pushing myself down and not being able to receive I'm like, I don't think that there's anything wonderful and remarkable about that. It just is maybe because the process that I took to get there was very unremarkable, very unsexy, very all of the things anyway. So I was having a chat about about this whole concept, to this colleague of mine, going, we don't actually feel like we have a story or a hook line or or a saleable thing, because, you know, look at the news, everyone loves a sad story. I don't have a sad story to hook people in. If I can do it, you can do it too. Like there's not really a thing there. But I was like, the people that I talk to and the people that I'm here to help, they don't necessarily want to be a hero. They don't want to be someone who loses 700 kilos and then gets on a stage. They just want to feel better in their body. They just want to be a little bit further ahead. They just want to shift their mindset a bit so they don't even give a whether they want to in they are so far away from enjoying life now, they just want to stop enduring it. Yeah, even just for five minutes, like just, it's not even, oh my God. I want to live my best life. I just don't want to wake up every day hating the way that I feel just one time. But just, it's that real, nothing hugely special, but that middle ground that I think gets forgotten about because we're wide for novelty. We live on the edges of the extreme, but most of us are here, and who's talking to us like I remember as as a fitness professional ages ago, and I probably should have done more work in this space. And Hindsight is 2020, unlike my vision, but it's all good and well, while someone's losing the weight, and they're on the journey, and they're pushing and they're cutting and they're shredding and they're great, but what about in 12 months time, when they've lost 20, 3040, kilos, and they're still flogging themselves on the treadmill, no one's noticing them? Then what about those people that are still pushing themselves four, five hours a day in the gym every single day, because they're petrified of going back to the way that they used to be, and now they're depressed, but they have ABS, but that's worse than when they were fat, because at least when they had the fat they were fat, they could have the cake and feel happier for a minute. Like, what about that? Like that type of unremarkability in the middle, like this whole thing around I don't know if I have anything that's worth sharing, because why would anyone listen to me? Because we see the big dogs that are doing the huge work in the world, they have this huge story of overcoming. But then I think what's important to speak to and remember is that the only way that you can help someone is if you're in arms reach like I used to compare myself again. Remember, I'm a 90s kid and I'm a 2000s trainer, so I would compare myself to Michelle Bridges. You know what Michelle Bridges is so far away from most people's reality. They're not going to go to her for help anyway. They're they're going to go to the people that they can see, that they can relate themselves to, and that in some way, shape or form, they can put themselves in their shoes. If people can't see the future, they can't see themselves in the future. People look at Michelle Bridges and they're like, I'm never going to be her. She can't help me, because that's so far removed from my reality that that is ridiculous. And so then suddenly I'm like, You know what? The fact that I'm not super remarkable, and I don't have a great web page, and I don't have a this, and I don't have a that, and I'm not a celebrity trainer, and I'm not James Smith, and I'm not any of these other people that I think are amazing. That's actually possibly an incredible blessing, a little bit of a paradise, that I can be relevant and relatable to people because I'm just there. And the other thing, everyone's like, Oh, unremarkability is a negative thing. But let me tell you, as a 37 year old woman who is reeled from injuries from here to down there. If I go to a scan, whether it's an MRI, an x ray, an ultrasound, and they're looking for things wrong with me, and the report says blah, blah structure unremarkable, I'm like, fuck yes, that's not broken. If something is unremarkable, depending on the context that you're happy, and it's so I know that there'll be people listening who are going, oh my gosh, Lisa, it's talking herself down or whatever. You're not saying unremarkable from this victim me low frequency, like I'm unremarkable. I'm not. It's more like I don't have this crazy, big sob story to tell, and that's my superpower, yeah. And maybe as a result, I'm not going to fall into the wounded healer thing either, and which we won't even get into, because that's a whole thing. But, and this is what you do so well, is that now suddenly I can speak to that, I can show up as that. I'm not going to get burnt out as a coach. People aren't going to miss out on maybe potentially bettering their life as a result of me being in it, because I can speak to the fact nothing special, nothing awesome to see here. We're just here doing the thing, and I can just speak to that. I don't have to pretend to be amazing, and so that way, I can be embodied in it, and I'm not going to get burnt out, because this is actually one of the questions I asked at my school the other week, is, how can you protect yourself from lowering your energy, or from you from getting zapped of energy? Because I'm finding that more recently, and I was only chatting to the beautiful lady who's allowed me to be in her space this morning, like I'll go into coaching, and I go in and out of the intensity of my coaching a fair bit, because I get really burnt out. Get really depleted of energy because I'm so excitable. I'm like, I want to give you everything. But instead of actually lighting other people's candle with my candle, I like, here, have my candle. Oh shit. Now I got my candle. Like, so I'm getting better at that, and that's fine. That's the work that I get to do. But now I don't have to sit here with the permission of the unremarkability. I don't have to sit and be pretend like I'm this big shot, like amazing person, because we don't have to be a big shot amazing person in order to add value into the world. Oh, like we don't have we got it into our head that we need. Be we need to have made it like I don't profess. I'm about to do a podcast interview with an incredible, emotional eating coach. I don't profess to be a nutritionist, a dietitian. I don't write eating plans, and I don't encourage and I don't talk to people about their food. Why? Because old mate is not sorted in her food. She's not embodied in her food. That is still an area of development for me, and it might be an area of development for me for my entire life. It could be my dharma. Who knows the fact that my surname is Ferguson, and that's just what Fergusons do, and that's fine. So I'm not going to pretend to be embodied in that I am embodied in is safe movement, helping people move safely and effectively in a way that's accessible for them and helps them feel better in their body than when they got here. Because that's what I do every day. And some days that's a walk, some days that's an F 45 someday that's lying in bed, yeah. And it's so ironic, the way I see it is, if you give yourself permission to just own the unremarkability that exactly where I am, if you can show up exactly as you are, without the need to put on the mask, the facade, the remarkable, the the persona, inadvertently that leads to remarkability. And you might find that over years and years and years of just showing up in your authenticity, you start to attract a lot more opportunities, you start to attract a lot more clients, you start to attract a lot more money, because you're just being in your authentic power. And then over years, that compounds. And you might look ahead in five years and go, I don't know, all I ever did was show up as me, and it compounded into some remarkable results, but it was actually unremarkable doing it because all you did was show up as you I think it's a conversation around authenticity. And when you're trying to be remarkable, you're trying that's the whole problem. That's where the inauthentic, the mask comes. So there's something really powerful in just being authentic. And what you sort of touch on is, ironically, it's very shadow. It's very shadow esque. Like being unremarkable, is your remarkability. So I just love that you've brought this in. And I know Shadow Work was quite a big moment for you when we got to the end, and there was a lot of permissioning. What was your experience by the end of the mind school, after having, like you said, you had all these drop ins, what else came up for you towards the end, especially as we were talking about shadow work, I love the shadow work piece. And when we sat around in the first day, and you know, who are you and what brought you to my school, I'm like, I'm here for the shadow work. I'm here for the shadow work, and that is why I'm here, yeah. Like, you know. PD, personal development. Be good. Be better. No better. Do better. All the things, rah, rah, yay. But it doesn't make shit a difference if you're pouring, it's like you've got a bucket of a million dollars if you're pouring a million dollars in the top, let's call that all light and love and, you know, sparkly bits. PD, but then if your shadow challenges at the bottom, you're leaking all of that out. You make a million dollars, you spend a million dollars in shadow. You're still broke at the end of the day. Yeah. And so here's going, I've done all of this top end work, but I'm still feeling a little bit depleted. There's still a lot leaking out of the bottom of my bucket. Dear Eliza, I'm like, okay, cool. Well, I'm here for the shadow stuff, right? And it was the whole thing around we live in a paradoxical world where we have dual universe of here, there, on, off, yes, no shadow, light, and so yes, we get to be both, and I think it's important. And I love how you do this, Breanna, like you own your stuff publicly. You're not ashamed of your shadow, like, here's me in my shadow. And I think that is so powerful, because the people that are seeking our support and seeking our help are in their shadow, and we need to meet them where they're at. If we think about the people that we want to help, the people that we feel put on the earth to serve in this season, where are they at, and what might they be able to soften into if they can go, Ah, me too. Now I know the whole hashtag, me too. Movement is quite, quite controversial, so we can step back from that for a second, just consider the concept for what it is, not what we've made it mean as a society. Like if someone can go, Oh, me too. I can see myself in your shoes, because you know what? I'm a movement coach, and sometimes I don't want to that wraps up your whole message so nicely. I think that the message of this is, lead with where you are. Lead with where you are. Don't try, don't construct, just be exactly as you are, and that dissolves all of the imposter syndrome that might be niggling in the background. And Lisa, you just the way you talk, like far out. I can't wait to see you on TED stage, whatever. Where is this is my final question. I know we're gonna we're gonna do rapid fire. I'm really gonna rein you in here, because Lisa. Does not do rapid fire. I have a meeting in four minutes. Okay, great. So with all that in mind, you finished the mind school that's been two or three weeks. Where to from here, podcast, podcast called fat chats, making my fat story cool, and fat is spelt P, H, A, T, I'm so I'm going to put your everything in the show notes. And guys, I recommend that you just go and listen to Lisa's rants. They're great. They're hilarious. They're the best. They're like a mix of comedy with personal development. It's so good, and I want to see more of them Lisa. So first of all, thank you for stopping us to chat three years ago on the side of the road with our bikes and for the sunburn that I endured. Thank you for coming to the mind School. Thank you for coming on the podcast. You're an absolute light. Thank you for having me. Thank you for tuning in to the mind school podcast. It is a massive intention of mine to continue to grow this show, because the more the show goes, the better the guests get, and I know that is going to be so powerful for you listening. So if I could ask this massive favor, it would mean the world if you could please leave a review, hit the Follow button, or leave a rating on Spotify, so that we can continue to grow this show and bring you the juiciest, most thought provoking and expansive conversations through incredible guests. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'll see you next week. You.