After 2 Years of TTC, IVF & "Infertility," I Gave Up. Here's What Happened. PART 1

Hey there,

I’ve been sitting on this one for two years.

Two years of doctor’s appointments, test results, surgeries, injections, hope, heartbreak, more hope… and so much I’ve never said out loud.

On The Mind School Podcast this week, I’m sitting with my beautiful friend, Heidi Anderson, to unpack my two-year journey of trying to conceive and what it’s done to my mind, my marriage, my business, and my identity.

It’s emotional, it’s messy, and it’s so much bigger than “just” fertility.

I talk about:

• The moment a specialist looked me in the eye and used the word hysterectomy at 29.
• How IVF felt like both my biggest surrender… and my biggest fight.
• The quiet heartbreak of leading a room of clients while bleeding from another negative month.
• The wild thoughts your mind takes you to when you’re desperate for answers.
• How the past 2 years have impacted the thing most important to me...my marriage. 
• And why, even as a mindset coach, I let myself be both powerful and a complete train wreck in front of clients.

If you’ve ever been through something big that no one really sees… or loved someone who has… this episode will crack something open for you.

Because it’s not just about fertility.

It’s about grief, resilience, friendship, and letting yourself be seen when you’d rather hide.

🎧 Listen here →  

And if it lands, if it makes you feel less alone, if you see yourself in my words, please share it. Someone out there needs to know they’re not the only one.

B x

As always, please don't forget to hit Subscribe! xxx

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Hi, how are you feeling? I'm nervous. Why I feel like sharing and unpacking the last two years. A, there's so much that I haven't shared, and B, it's so emotional. I think the last two years is probably the hardest time I've had in my adult life, and it's just a lot to unpack, which is why I've never done one on the podcast about this whole two year journey, about every single piece that I haven't shared, although I've been somewhat public about it, and yeah, there's just so much that goes on behind the scenes that no one would have a clue about. So what are we talking about today? We're talking about a two year journey into trying to conceive and what that's looked like, mentally, emotionally. We're talking about the impacts it's had on my business, on my life, on my relationship, on my identity, on everything. So it's going to be big till we have tissues, by the way, I've got some in my handbag, but I just realized I was like, Oh my God, I need probably whole box. Yeah, thank you. Tissues. We definitely need. We have tissues. Okay, so I guess my first question is, like, because we're going to get into this, why me? Why do you think you know you're ready to share this, and why do you want to sit here with me? Like, couldn't you do this on your own? I could have done this on my own, but I know that you're you, and you're going to pull the parts out that I'll want to skim over, and the parts that people probably a, people who are in the similar journey would be like, Thank God someone's sharing it. B, people who don't get it and are supporting other people in a similar journey would get an insight into what their friend might be going through. And you have a way of pulling the vulnerable pieces out, which is what I will skip over. Yeah, okay, so take me back to I think, because most people, if they do know you, they have seen you share parts of yourself, but you're normally the one leading the way right. Like, can you just take us back to the words of what the doctor had said to you? Yeah, there's been a few. And if I go back to the start, the one that took the sail, the wind out of my sails, I took a best friend with me because Paul couldn't come to this one appointment, and at the time, it was because I'd had abnormal cells return from just like a routine pap smear. It was stage three, so they'd already said this needs to be escalated, and I'd already had this procedure done before, 10 years prior, so I knew what I was in for, and I also knew that maybe I'll start wanting to have kids soon. So this is actually a big decision about what to do. I went to the specialist, the gynecologist. I took my best friend with me, and I said to her, is there any way I can avoid more surgery, because I actually already don't have much cervix. I've already had quite a lot removed. Is there any way I can reverse it? She said point blank, no. And given your background, if you were any older, I'd be advising you how to hysterectomy. And when she said the word hysterectomy, and at the time, I was, like, 29 maybe I felt sick. I was like, Is it that serious? Like, is it is this really what we're talking about, a hysterectomy? And I said, Is there any way I can reverse this naturally? Because I always go natural. First, she said, No. And after that, I did a lot of research and discover there's a lot of different views, but I found people who said it could be reversed naturally. So I respectfully declined more surgery, and she then said that I was no longer she discharged me from her care. Wow, oh my god, I just got goosebumps. Yeah. And then I was on a little bit of a journey that lasted, obviously the last. Since then, it's been years, but I've been told I have inhospitable ovaries. That was actually the day that I came to do one of your PR days. Yeah, I know. And I remember Taylor walking in with her little fresh baby, and I knew what you were going through, and you've just been said this news, and then you see someone walking in with their third fucking child. What did you think in that moment? I think I was that was one of the lows, actually, and it's, you're always happy for people. And I think Taylor had literally just had, like, it was a few weeks old. Yeah, she was Freshy. It was fresh and she's walked in and everyone's running up to the baby and congratulating her, and I've literally come into this room crying because the doctor has just said your ovaries are inhospitable right now, because there was so much inflammation, apparently. And you're always happy for people, but you also can't hide your own sadness, and I remember trying to hide. Had my tears, and you just looked at me, and I was like, fuck, I'm not going to be able to hide this. So I sort of just kind of made myself small, I suppose. And I you know, it's just one of those things you get really used to when you've been in that journey for a long time. Well, especially when you're at an age where a lot of your friends are starting to have kids, if they're choosing to and able to. So what are some of the thoughts and feelings that go through your head when you've been told hospitable ovaries, but then all these other people are having these magical pregnancies and falling pregnant, and you know, it's so easy, yeah. What do you like? What do you actually, really think it's a journey? I think there's definitely been moments for me of like, But why me? And also the frustrating thing for me is like, but this doesn't make sense. This doesn't make sense. And I want to find answers for everything. I want to find root cause. I want to find I want it to make sense. And when you get chucked in this category of unexplained infertility, that's the part that I just could not accept. I can't explain. I can't accept unexplained. Yeah, and that was causing a lot of frustration. And I think because from a very young age, I always believed I was super fertile. My mum always told me, like, you know, Moon, dad, first time you and your brother and dad loves that story. Like first round. The only time first round, like dad loves sharing that, you know, his swimmers were so strong and and whatever. So I always thought, Oh, I bet I'll be like Mum, you know, yes, so young when I got my period, I was there's just no signs of anything being a problem. And then when I was 24 I haven't ever shared this. When I was 24 I actually did fall pregnant with my ex partner, and it was an accident, like it was an accident. He worked away quite long swings. It was, in the doctor's words, a miracle baby. At the time, I didn't even get regular periods. There was so much going on that it was like, oh, whoa. I'm really fertile. And to know that I've been I've fallen pregnant before, easily accidentally, without trying. Yeah, and then, you know, my partner at the time, lovely guy, the best I've got so much respect for the way he held me through that. But we just knew it wasn't the time for us. I was still at uni. I still didn't know I was in my 20s. I was still in that, like, do I really want to be a mum? I don't think I'm very maternal. I spent most of my 20s saying I'm not maternal. I don't really know if I really want kids. I want to travel later. It was I want to build my business like I've got all this ambition, and I couldn't see how it could coexist. So at the time, we decided to terminate, and I have no regrets over that, but when you're then struggling, yeah, and you're told you're potentially infertile. Your ovaries are inhospitable. We suggest a hysterectomy. And you start thinking, fuck, am I never gonna have children? And was that my one opportunity? And was that it like it did bring a lot of that back up? What kind of stuff? Because I know, like, obviously, your whole podcast, your whole mantra, everything is about the mind, like, what were you thinking and reflecting with that? Like, what was coming up for you? It was that this doesn't make sense. It was more just the frustration of there's got to be. I know I can get pregnant. I know I just can't accept that this isn't a possibility. I can't accept unexplained. And it was frustrating. So I was going back looking at what I was doing differently, then it did bring up it, what I will say is how it fucked with my brain. And people say things, people I remember. I can't remember where I was, but I remember the conversation clearly, I was talking about my journey and how I'd been struggling. And these women at the event said, Oh, you just never know, like I know. And they started all sharing about how many friends, women they all knew of who had been trying with their partner husband, for years and years and years, and the moral of that story that they were sharing with me was, and then, you know, they divorced, and they later went on to fall pregnant instantly with someone else. So maybe, and I thought, what? Like, I just remember thinking, this is what I'm getting with this is this what you're telling me? Like, Paul's the problem, where the problem there's something should I go married to number two? Yeah, like, that was what was going on. It's like, you just never know. Sometimes it's just a compatibility thing and, and this is the conversations. And I've never questioned a compatibility thing with my husband ever. But I started going crazy. I started being like, how come with him? Like, with your. It was so easy that it was actually accidental, and how come like is? And I started going crazy, and that's when I could see Paul was going, oh gosh. He was getting pretty scared, and he was starting to notice that I was going, Is that us? Like, is there something? And we've never had a problem ever. So the stuff that goes through your mind for me was frustration, because there was no answers, sadness because I'd fallen pregnant in the past with the person who wasn't Paul, yeah, and I didn't want anything else. If I always say, if not Paul, no one like, I didn't Yeah. Really want kids to be honest. Like, both of us kind of bonded over not not really caring either way. We were so obsessed with the life we'd created, which was so there was so much freedom in the first four or five years we were together, we didn't even really care. And then we slowly started thinking, maybe because you're cool, like, I'd love to have one at you. Yeah. And it for me, it was Paul or no one, but my brain started going a bit crazy. What do you do with your relationship when that starts to happen? Because obviously, you're probably in the relationship, I'm assuming, the one that kind of leads you're doing, you know, you're the one that's done a lot of the work. That's like your whole mission. So when you're crumbling and you're going through what you're both hearing the news that you might not be able to conceive, like what happens to your relationship, this is also I feel a bit of a head fuck, because for us a I found it really hard to accept that. But the second piece was I almost had to accept that that could be a reality. So we actually started making plans like, Okay, if we can't what life are we going to build? And there were conversations that Paul and I had where I would actually start to get really excited about this vision that we created, where it was just the two of us, and, you know, we'd spend half our year living on a bike, or whatever it might be. We started to build really cool visions. And sometimes I'd get excited, and then I'd feel guilty that I was excited, and then I'd get in my head again, like, do I really want to be a mum? Then if I'm also excited about this, and so we would do that. But then if I was really honest with myself and honest with Paul, I was like, this is a very amazing and exciting second best, but it is a second best. And there would, towards the last six months, I started to really feel like it's exciting, but really I'm in these cool places I'm in this year I, like, I went snowboarding with Paul, and we went and did, like, Japan, and we went and did the Swiss Alps the year before, and it was amazing. But it started to feel like we've done this, like something's missing. Is that what it feels like, I think, where you're at is it feel it? Does it feel like your family is not complete. Because, even though you haven't had children now, you know, like, you'd know that, like, is that the feeling, like the sense of incompletion? Yeah, and I've never felt that. I've never, ever, ever felt like something's missing. I'd say, the last six months I have been, you know, I remember, I returned from Japan, and one of my girlfriends said, how was it? And I'm like, it was amazing, but I just want to be pregnant. Like Japan, we booked and we said to all of our mates at the time, we'll come, but we probably won't, you know, we'll book it, but we probably won't be there because Breanna will be pregnant, yeah, and so then when I was there, I was like, This is great. This is amazing. But everything that we were doing to embrace the life and the circumstances we had, we were making the best out of. We were making lemonade, but the lemonade still kind of went down a little bit sour. Yeah, it was flat. It was flat lemonade. And you're like, this isn't the greatest lemonade. It's not the greatest lemonade. And like, the thing is, it's like, you want something, but you don't know what it is. Like, you don't know what it is yet. That must be such a strange experience. The weirdest thing, yeah, it's like, and you don't know what you're missing, but you see it, yeah, don't you get like, sometimes when people like, it's so hard, and this that, but you, I know. I remember saying to you, dear, but you kind of go, I want that. I want that hard. I want that hard. I remember thinking that like, I can't wait for sleepless nights. I can't wait to be frustrated that I'm not getting enough work done, or whatever it might be. Yeah, because I think I got to this point in the last six months where I was like, I've done a lot of the business things that I've wanted, like, there's a lot to go, but my business feels solid. Yeah, I've done so much travel that it's almost like, oh, let's go to Europe again. And I know that sounds like a privilege program, but it's I was like, truth. Yeah, I actually am in a season where I. All I actually want is a wholesome, simple little life and to be home with my my family, and that was just feeling like so far away. And, you know, 18 months in, when you still haven't even fallen pregnant once, and then not, you're not getting any closer, you do start to wonder if it's ever going to happen? Yeah, well, tell us a little bit about your journey. So what have you been through for the last 18 months? Because, like I said, we see tiny little snippets through what you share, even as a friend. You know, I've been on the journey with you, but I think for a lot of people, you never truly know what's going on behind someone's closed doors, and I think you've kept it quite, you know, personal for whatever reasons, but like, what has actually? What have you been through? What have you experienced? What have you been doing? Like, the good, the bad, the ugly, everything. I think the biggest challenge behind closed doors that I didn't expect, or maybe on some level, I did was the making the decision to go forward with IVF. On some level, if I'm really honest, I feel like I had to deal with a lot of I've failed, like your body or yourself, your value, like, what? What was it? Everything above, all the above, I think the greatest strength of my personality is that I don't give up, and I find answers, and if someone tells me there's not a way, I'll find a way around it. And I just felt like I was getting backed into a corner, and I remember I went on this retreat, and it was a beautiful retreat. I had the worst weekend ever, because we were sitting in this circle, and some lady in the circle just stopped, and at the time, I thought I was pregnant. It was at this retreat I went in going, I'm pretty sure I'm pregnant. My period's late. It's a potential. I've been working on all these things with my naturopath. It's I reckon I'm pregnant, and we're at this retreat, and the late some lady interrupts this sharing circle and goes, I'm so sorry. Someone in this circle is pregnant. I and I was like, Oh my God. I was so excited. And I just, I was on cloud nine. I was like, I knew it. I knew it, I'm fucking pregnant. And then the next session, after lunch, we were back in the sharing circle, and this girl goes, I can't believe this, I'm pregnant. I took a pregnancy test at lunchtime. Oh, my God, it's me. I'm pregnant. And for the rest of that retreat, I just cried. I couldn't even show up. My clients were all at this retreat. I just went to my room, got in the bubble bath, and just sobbed. I was like, I can't, I can't keep going. And on the drive home, I rang my mom, and I said, I think I've got to do IVF. Like, I think that's the next step. She's like, so what like? So what? Of course, it's the next step. It's nothing. There's nothing wrong with that. Blah, blah, blah, but, and this is something I've spoken to you about, like it almost goes against so many of my beliefs around Big Pharma. And there's it gets political, I suppose, but I and don't get me wrong, I love the medical system. I love pharmaceuticals for the right things. You know what I mean? ADHD meds over here. Yeah, and that conversation I remember having with you where even I was like, Man, I got diagnosed with ADHD, but I don't even feel comfortable taking medication for that, like I'm I don't take Panadol. So, you know, it was just this huge ego death. And, like, really looking back at my belief system, and I remember someone saying to me, but what's the outcome you want? Like, you want a baby? Does it matter how you get there? Yeah. And I remember thinking, Oh, that's pretty true, but yeah, IVF. And then starting the IVF journey, I had no idea, no clue, how consuming it is, how much it overtakes your relationship, your finances, your daily commutes, every second day, up to the clinic, the The surgeries, the everything. And in the meantime, I'd had this surgery to remove more cervix, so I already knew that even if IVF works, I'm going to be a high risk pregnancy, because I went along with their advice, which is probably my biggest regret in this whole journey. And now I have what's called like a short or incompetent cervix, so carrying to full term. Now I know even if I get so lucky to fall pregnant, I have to be high risk for the whole thing. And after they did the biopsy, after I had said, I'll do this naturally. I'll do this myself. And they said, No, you can't and it might. Be the reason you aren't falling pregnant. They took it out. So now I have an incompetent cervix. They took it out, and they rang me and they said, We're so sorry. It has reversed to stage one, I mean, but they still took out. It's gone, like, we've taken it out. But so behind the scenes, there was so many things and trust, right? Like, that's maybe why. Like, yeah, the IVF that you've had this you trusted the medical system you you know you sign like, yes, do what you need to do, but they have actually broken that trust. And so I can understand why, yeah, trying to accept IVF. Oh, yeah. There was a lot of not trusting my body, not sure if I wanted to trust the intentions, even things like I remember doing research and when we kept handing over, handing over the bank card, handing over the bank card. Now I know every month that it doesn't work, every transfer that you go in, and that's a whole nother conversation the transfer I've had horrific, traumatizing times because of all my cervical scar tissue, it's a whole nother thing. But every time you your your transfer fails, you hand over another four or five grand. I'm a business woman. I was like, why would they want it to work like? I started like, it's a sale, you feel like you get the dodgy salesman. I'm like, do they want it to work as a business? Wouldn't you prefer that every woman has to try four or five times? Like, I just started being like, there was so much distrust, but I had, I had to work on that. How did you do that? I had to just surrender. I had to go, Okay, how do we surrender? And especially for you, like, who wanted to fix and like, you want to you basically want to control. Like, don't you want control? Like, how do you how do you surrender? I honestly didn't for the first, definitely not for the first transfer. I was tightly controlling. I was on chat, GPT every two minutes. That's our new coach. Oh yeah, literally, I'm like, this symptom is this normal? Like, every like me, every few minutes I was, I was crazy. Paul actually, was like, you've lost it. You've lost your marbles. Throw the apps out. You're going crazy. Yeah. And I was like, just everything. And so I had Tight, tight, tight control. Oh, the needles, the injections, the first night that I had to do the injections, not yet, actually, it was for the transfer. No, not the transfer. What's the other one? Egg retrieval. Yeah, take your eggs out. This is a whole like, because there's a whole process, yeah, and you're trying to plan your life, you're trying to plan your business, you're trying to show up for your clients, but you're also getting phone calls every two days with like this result and then change. It's a whole degree that you need to learn just to do IVF. So they the first night that I had to do injections, first low point, first low I'm not good with needles. I like I said to you, I don't like taking things. I'm looking at these needles and boxes and like my kitchen turned into a pharmaceutical. It was it just felt so wrong to me when I've always been I prefer natural. So I'm looking at these injections. Paul's at work. I'm home alone. I typically faint every time I see a needle, and I'm sitting there thinking, I've got to put this in, like, I can't do it. I actually can't do this. And it was the first time I had to practice asking Paul for what I needed. And I didn't do very well. Like, I did not do very well. I was sending almost passive aggressive, yeah, you're like, pissed off that you're pissed off, that he wasn't just coming home from work, yeah, or that he knew what you're going he knew how hard I was because he didn't understand how hard it was for me to inject myself. So I'm sort of messaging him, saying, I can't do it. This is really hard. He hasn't yet gotten the like, I'm asking you to come home, because I never asked him to come home. I was like, This is really hard. I can't do it. I've rung mum. I've had and Paul's at work, like, and she's like, Well, he'll come home. Just ask him. And I said to Paul, I need you to come home. I actually need you to come home. I can't do this. And I was just sobbing on the couch, like, I can't do this whole injection. I just can't do it. And he had to. He did. He came home. He did my injections. He laid on the couch with me for half an hour. He stayed home. He told work he's not going back. And he told work he won't go back indefinitely while I need him. And that was just getting ready for the first egg retrieval. That was eight months ago. Wow. And there's been injections twice a day, every day ever since. And so did he stay off work the whole like months? Did he end up going back? Did he leave the couch to learn how to inject myself like that was actually probably one of the hugest moments of growth. Like I was the kid that fainted for needles. Yeah, I was petrified, petrified of needles. And yeah, you're spending we were spending 500 bucks a week on. Injections a week. This has been going on for months, and it's just it's consuming and that the IVF process. And I've had a good experience. I had great eggs, lots retrieved, lots of embryos created, like I've had very good unicorn results, really, yeah, by their goosebumps standards, my doctor rang and said, I wish all my clients got your results. These are unicorn results, and I still say IVF was hard, yes, hard, yeah. And I just feel so much for the women who go through it for 10 years or don't get any eggs after all of that, like it's I just feel so deeply for these women who have been not getting great results. I still found it hard, yeah, well, how did you support yourself? Because, I mean, that's what you do, right? You support other women through business, through the mind, school, through your podcast. Like, how did you support yourself through this? I lent on people, my friends. This is the part that will get me emotional, like I have friends who like my, one of my best friends, she doesn't want kids. Never has, never will, just not her thing, and in the last six months, she's never, ever been more in my grill. How are you? She's She's like researching smoothies and sending me recipes that will help with progesterone levels. And she's messaging every month and doing all this research and getting around me and coming over. She came. She's the one that came to that first appointment with me when Paul couldn't be there. She lives three hours away, she has shown up my other best friend like that. I've just had friends that have come stay at my house after the first transfer, so that I wouldn't go crazy testing at home by myself. Like, I don't know if my experience would be the same if I didn't have the people around me that I do, and my husband as well. Like, sometimes I haven't been looking after myself the way I want to, but my friends pick me up, and that's something I'll just never forget. Yeah, yeah. And you, you know, I know for when you shared an experience, like you were at one of your events where you were leading the day and all of the women that were in the room that day when you came back from the toilet. Do you want to share that story? Because that's another moment of like, just support of people showing up for you. Yeah, and you allowing them to hold you as well. There's been so many opportunities, actually, it's been pivotal in my coaching business. This whole experience has shown me that you can fall apart and you can show your clients your human side, whatever that might be. It doesn't detract from your ability to hold space. It didn't detract from my ability to be there for them, or them to even see me a different way. The first round that I'd ever led the mind school, it was a big deal for me, like it was one of the highlights of I'd been building for that, yeah, towards that for four years. And the day before, no, the Friday before I started running the mind school, I got a call from the IVF clinic after we'd started all these like, preliminary tests to potentially get ready for IVF. I was still in my phase of like, No, I'm going to fall pregnant naturally, but I did the rudimentary tests, and she rang me the Friday before the mind school and said, I'm so sorry. Your genetic testings actually come back. Not great. You and your husband are both carriers for a very rare, very serious genetic disease. So if you do fall pregnant naturally, your child has a one in four chance of having it, just another thing. And I was like, okay, cool. Like, all right. I just literally compartmentalized it. I forgot to tell Paul, that's how much I went. I've got the mind school to run, yeah? Plus, in my stubborn brain, I was like, doesn't matter I'm pregnant. It doesn't like every in my every month I'm pregnant, I'm pregnant. So again, I thought I was pregnant. There was every potential that I was that month. I forgot to tell Paul about the genetic results. I started running the mind School, where, at halfway through the mind school, every morning, the women were coming home from like they were going home from the mind school, coming back in the next day, and they were sharing with me, Breanna, this is changing the way I parent. This is changing the way my kids relate to me. I'm having fun. I'm dancing with my kids, like, and so many of them were saying, like, this is just the most amazing things as a mum. And all these women were telling me, and I was like, oh God. Like, I can't wait till I can share it with my kid. And then I went to the toilet. Mm. I saw my period had come, and we walked back out, and I just started crying, like in front of all of them, I was like, we were in the sharing circle, and I was like, I love hearing this from you, and it makes me so happy to know that this is impacting kids the way I'd always wanted and families, but at the same time, it's hard to hear, and I don't want that to be a reason you don't share. I'm just sharing how it is for me. I just got my period, and I just broke down, and there was a pregnant client in the room, and she just walked up to me, and she grabbed my hand and she put it on her belly, and she said, just want you to feel this energy, because, like, one day it's gonna be you. And they all hugged me, and they all were just like, they they were just so amazing. And still, like, still, they'll message me thinking of you. You're always on my mind. They'll send me gifts randomly and go, we're still thinking of you. The aunties are here waiting. Like, it's just crazy. And having evidence that I can show up in those moments as a mess if I need to be and then still deliver a powerful session for the rest of that afternoon, it actually helped me. What I learned was that the more I actually just show up exactly as I am and not try to push it down or hide that part, the lighter it felt to show up in my business. So I was actually created more connection with my clients, because there wasn't this coach client distance. You're a human. It's like, I'm just here with you, and I've had a shit day, or this is happening now. Let's get into the session like and we can hold it all. That's what I like. Women are fucking incredible. Yeah, to hold this and then go about your day and run a business or whatever. It's just been so cool. Well, I was gonna say there's probably a lot of women who are listening that might not be able to show up like that. Is it the work that you've done to get to that point, like the mind school, you know, your own coaching is that, because a lot of people, that's one of our biggest issues in society, is like that. It's a vulnerability piece. Yeah, I think when I started studying shadow work, and again, it is a huge part of the mind school. But like when I started to learn that people can be both, because I've always, I think in some on some level, I've always been more like, This is who I am, and this is the box that I fit into, and I'm strong and I'm determined and I'm ambitious, and therefore to show anything that isn't that would be like, out of integrity, almost like, oh, but aren't you the mindset coach? So can, like, you know, it's this, does me have to be perfect? Yeah, I think giving myself permission to be both allowed me to be powerful and a bit of a train wreck the last two years. Yeah, yeah. So why haven't you shared this part now? Then. A, it was still in the process of me figuring out where I am with it all. B, I think there was a huge part of my business brain that was like, this isn't relevant. Where's the relevancy? Where does this like? Where does this tie in with your target audience and the outcomes and the pain points, the business brain, I think took over, yeah, and I just thought it's not relevant. People don't need to hear your sob story. And also, is it a sob story? Though, I don't even know if it's a sob story. And Paul has said to me a few times, you know what? Like, you've handled this, like, such a boss. It's been hard, but you like, I still even to this day, and, like, I'm really proud of how I actually have handled a really hard time, and now I'm ready to talk about it, because, yeah, obviously there's, like, a bit of an update. I'm so emotional. Just like, when you say Paul's name as well, how he says that you're a boss gets me in the fields. I think we need to get him on here to interview him too. I've tried. If you can get him on here, I will sit down. And if you can do it, I will, yeah, maybe he will in, say, a year's time. He said, it'll be a cold day in hell when he gets on the podcast. But we can try. We can try. So there is a bit of an update. There is, we're going to do that in the next episode. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing. Thank you so much for, yeah, for being here and doing this with me. It's, I hope that it helps other people understand or feel less alone. And I think that's the thing, right? Like, why we share stories, why that's one of my missions, is so that just one person will feel less alone. But what about you? You're gonna feel less alone now too. Yeah, yeah, thanks guys do it. Thank you for tuning in to the mind school podcast. It is a massive intention of mine to continue to grow this show, because the more the show grows, the better the guests get. And I know that is going to be so powerful for you. Listening. So if I could ask this massive favor, it would mean the world if you could please leave a review, hit the Follow button, or leave a rating on Spotify, so that we can continue to grow this show and bring you the juiciest, most thought provoking and expansive conversations through incredible guests. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'll see you next week. You.