Messages from the Other Side… or Just Your Imagination? Divine Guidance...or Coincidence? With Shaman Natalie

Hey legend,

Ever felt like you’re doing all the right things ... journaling, therapy, self-help books,  and still feel… off?

Like you can’t quite explain what’s wrong, but something in your body knows it’s not right?

That’s usually when I call Nat.

She’s the person I recommend when life feels crunchy and nothing else cuts it. I just say, “Book a session with Nat.”

 I can’t explain what happens,  I just know it lands.

So in today’s episode of The Mind School Podcast, I finally asked her the question everyone asks me:

👉 What even is a shaman… and how does any of this actually help real humans with real lives?

If you’ve ever wondered things like:

• “Is energy work even real or just placebo?”
• “How do I know if it’s my intuition or anxiety talking?”
• “Why do I feel drained after certain people or places?”
• “How can I reconnect with something bigger… without joining a cult or buying 47 crystals?”
•  — then this episode will blow your mind and ground you at the same time.

Inside we talk about:

• What a modern shaman really does (without the fluff or fairy dust)
• How science and spirit actually work together — from nervous system to energy
• How to strengthen your intuition without abandoning logic
• How to protect your energy from all the noise without becoming paranoid
• Why spirituality isn’t about escaping reality — it’s about facing it with more power, peace, and presence

This convo is for the woman who’s secretly spiritual but allergic to the “woo-woo” label — and also for the ones who’ve been on the journey for years but crave something more grounded, real, and raw.

It’s honest. It’s nuanced. It’s everything we love around here: head and heart, logic and magic.

🎧 Listen now:  

With grit and high vibes,

 B

As always, please don't forget to hit Subscribe! xxx

Transcript

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I am joined by the most beautiful Nat, who, anytime I have a friend who is going through some things, feeling confused, a little bit out of sorts, out of alignment, anything at all, my friends have gotten used to hearing me say, book a session with Nat. Just book a session with Nat. I don't even know what's going to happen, and they'll always say, okay, like, who's Nat, what? And I'm like, I, I don't know. Just, just, please book a session, but if you go to nat's bio, it will say shaman and spiritual teacher. And so I wanted to start with, firstly, welcoming you and thanking you for being here, Nat. And secondly, I would love to know, in your terms, your definition, what is a shaman? Oh, do you know what? I knew you were going to ask me this. And I'm like, have have your elevator speech like, in tone, I don't have one. Basically, I feel like the term shaman is actually overused in our society. Now. I don't feel and it's, it's cross cultural. Cross Cultural. Usually people think about the shaman as being Native American, but it's actually a place and a way of being in many different cultures. For me, being a shaman means that I get to do weird shit, basically. So I get to see the extraordinary I get to see. I get to really like connect with people's soul with frequency with energy, the past, the present, the future. So I can time hop, and I can like dimension hop. I can speak to or have a sense of telepathy with plants, where they speak back to me, like we can converse and have conversations. So for me, being a shaman is really multi faceted, and I use those gifts to try to help people to heal and to live a life which fills them up that's in alignment with their soul. So, and it's not something I learned today. I didn't choose to like be a shaman. Actually, I had heaps of resistance to anything spiritual. It just I couldn't define myself, because I'm not. It's not a cookie cutter type position. And I was like, Well, it kind of fits the mold of the things that shamans can do stereotypically, so it kind of feels like the right fit. I need to call this something, and I don't want to be disrespectful to the title, either, and those that hold that because by that name, but it does feel true for me as well. Yeah, and I think anyone who's done a session with you would feel that too, like for me. And I've had so many sessions with you over the years where I'm like, it just feels truth and like truth. And I'm probably not the most spiritual person, either or I am, but I might not align myself with what people would deem as spiritual. And we've had this conversation before too, which is what I love about working with you. You're doing the most spiritual quote, woo, woo stuff, yeah, but you yourself have sort of said you don't. You haven't always felt like that community quite fits either. So I really want to talk about that, but I would love to know before we get there, before you became a shaman, before you started doing what you do, you had a completely different like pre, pre shaman life. So what was what was happening before all of this went down? Yeah, so basically, from about 1819, I didn't want anything at all to do with spirituality. So like, back in the day, then it was, like, when you read magazines and newspapers, you could still read about your star sign, and I'd be like, fuck that. Like, I don't give a shit about that. Like I wasn't interested in spirituality. Whatsoever. Looking back, I think it's because it scared the bejesus out of me, and I definitely shut things down. So I decided that I wanted to go more clinical, and go in a direction of where things can be proven and rationalized. So I suffered from eating disorders when I was younger, and I felt like I wanted to make a difference with people, for people with their relationship with food, so I went to uni, went into the career path of clinical nutritionist, helping predominantly women with their relationship with food, the textures of food, what that meant for their emotions. And then I also worked with one of the biggest charities and non for profits in Australia, and I was the state Nutrition Coordinator, and I worked with people coming out of incarceration and people coming at women in halfway houses and things like that. That was super humbling. But I wasn't spiritual like this whole time I wasn't spiritual at all. So this was from about 18 till about 35 Whoa, yeah. And I was just, I was very 3d I was very closed off, like, I didn't want to be around spiritual people. Like, I just was like, No, you're not my people. Like, I was very just like, stay in my lane. Like. This with it. So if someone had said to me, you know, you're going to be doing this really, woo, woo stuff, I would have been like, why? Yeah, yeah. And now I do what I do now, and it is what it is. But back then, I was like, No, that, that that's never going to be me, ever. There's no such thing as never, yeah. So what happened was there, like, one crazy thing that just blew your face off, blew your brain, or was it like, how did you bridge the gap? Well, I, I remember, I was on the Googles, and I kept seeing this ad come up for something I was trying to pronounce phonetically, but not know what it was. I was like, Ry Kai. I'm like, What is ry Kai? I kept seeing these ads for it, and I remember saying to my husband, I'm like, I want to find out what this ry Kai thing is. He's like, what's right? I'm like, Ry Kai. And I'm like, got no clue, but I felt like pull towards it, right? So I started to look it up. Then I worked out that ry Kai was actually Reiki. I just couldn't say it like I was like, Ah, it's Reiki. I still don't know what Reiki is, either, but um, so I enrolled in, like, a weekend workshop in Reiki. And I must have been such a bitch like I was thinking about this earlier, because I still held so much fear around anything spiritual, and I didn't actually know why I was there again. I just felt like such a pull to it. And I remember there were all these beautiful people in the room, and they were all lit and excited and chatty and friendly, and I must have walked in like thunder, like full protection mode, like don't talk to me, like not really knowing what I was there. And then I remember, like, in the morning break, people were also lit up. And I remember walking outside, pacing in front, in front of a tree, ringing my husband, going, everyone has so weird and, like, just because, again, my fears coming up about this. But then so I learnt, I did a weekend workshop, and I learned the basics of Reiki, right? I'm like, Yeah, cool. I can do this. And then I would invite, like, friends over, and I was again confused about it, and I'll be like, hey, Breanna, do you want to come to my house? And I learned how to do this weird thing, and it's, you know, like, it's energy. So I didn't really know how to explain it, because I had no clue. Basically, what happened, though, is that I would do Reiki on a friend, and I'd start to see stuff, and I started to reopen. So part the parts of myself that I had abandoned and pushed away because they created fear for me, because it was so weird that all started to open up. So the more I helped people, I was like, Holy shit, holy shit, holy shit. And at this point I was still working clinically. And what happened was some of the beautiful people who I was literally practicing on, they told someone who told someone they're like, oh, nap and do this thing. And then they'll be like, Hey, can you do it to me? I'm like, to me? I'm like, Yeah, cool. Let's just see how it goes, like, non attachment to it. And then I just it became a thing without it meaning to become a thing. And then every time I would do something to do with energy, I'd re remember, or I'd wake up again, or I'd be taught, or I'd be educated. So for me, I haven't had a spiritual mentor to help me navigate this path in the physical my mentors have absolutely been like spirit spirit guides, and I do have a privileged position with that, because I can like in my own way, speak and, you know, get their guidance and their help. So that's how I've grown in my craft, and my skill has literally been led by them, or led by God. Well, that's how I got into it. And then there was a point, and I'm going, okay, so this is becoming a thing, so this could be like a business, but I still had, like, clinical stuff, and I'm sitting in the Crossroads, and I'm like, do I stay with the mind and the rational like, or do I go full Woo? And I'm like, like this. And of course, I chose the Woo and and here we are. But I still love the mind, and I still love to quantify or see how spirituality and science, who are like secret besties, can, like, come together, not conflict with each other. So I still, I still love the rational mind and how, like, it's becoming more familiar for people now that they can science is catching up with spirituality, and spirituality can meet science as well. Yeah, so that's how I got into doing this now. And it keeps moving and it keeps changing, and more stuff is coming through, different stuff is coming through all the time. Wow, I just, I can't it's such a huge shift to go from clinical like a science, you know, you're a scientist in many respects, yeah, and non Woo, to completely like your business. Now you're a shaman. You do all these things, yeah? What sort. Of impacts did it have on your life, maybe personally, or even the relationship with yourself and others, to essentially have this huge people, maybe some people thought you were losing the plot, like, Did you receive any projections? Did you fear what other people were thinking? Did you have any fallouts from this? I feel like the person who rejected it the most is definitely me, and I still actually continue to do that like a lot, and so I have to catch myself when I do it, because I know that there's more that I can do that I kind of keep in the closet. I remember back in the day when things were sort of opening up, sitting on the bedroom floor, and like shaking because I was, like, doing sessions about kind of keeping it like, very like, safe and secure for me. And it feels like people explain when they come out of the closet for different reasons. And I remember facing posting something on Facebook, which was like, I can see energy or spirit being terrified, and just putting pushing, like post or something, and then looking at the time, going, fuck, I'm late to pick up the kids. I must have slammed down my phone, ran out the door, and then stressing the whole way, I need to delete that post. I need to delete that post. Holy shit. People are going to think that I'm not because of what I just wrote about, this weird stuff that comes through. And I got back to my phone, and I just had so much love and support, and I'm like, Oh no, this is safe, like it's safe for me to come out of the closet now. So that was like that. I remember that because I remember myself shaking on the floor, being afraid to, like, be seen in that way, or afraid of the judgment that could possibly come forward, but I haven't really received a lot of judgment. I'm still cautious. When people ask me what I do, I'm not always transparent, and the reason for that is sometimes to protect them, because I don't want to take people out of their comfort. You know, if NAT does this weird stuff, you know, is she reading my mind? Not that I ever would, but like, what is she picking up all this stuff? So most everyone who I can come, who comes to mind and heart, were, like, lovingly supportive, I think, yeah, again, the biggest person that held me back was me, yeah, wow, especially because in my family line, the maternal line, so many of the women have been hospitalized for mental health, and even to the point where I remember, I was about nine, and my uncle came up to me and he said, I need to have a serious conversation with you. So he sat down with me, and he was like, you have to promise me that you won't go crazy, because all the women in your line that. And he was like, then he started laughing, like they were all fucking crazy, like, and I'm like, going, I promise. Oh, wow, yeah. So on this, so on this journey with spiritual awakening, I've kind of always tried to work walk that discerning line of, is this a mental health psychosis thing, or is this actually something which is happening that is multi dimensional? And, you know, I've sat there many times and just being like, I think I'm losing my shit, like, I think I'm going crazy. And that's when it's always just before something massive happens. And but usually with that, I'll sit with a friend or a partner and they'll be like, just, you're it's fine. Like, they'll just calm me down and let me know you haven't lost the plot. NAT, it's okay. You're just you. You just experience the world. And there's different ways. But I don't so much get that anymore, but I did for many years, like, leading up to this point, just really try to check my mental health. Like, I actually still do that today, like, I'm, like, always checking in, like, okay, just making sure that this is very real, also, because I never want to pull the wool over my clients eyes, like, and I see that a lot in the spiritual industry, right? I see so much, but what I consider bullshit, absolute bullshit, yeah, and pulling the wool over people's eyes, and I I hate the word hate, but I hate that. I think people deserve better than that, yeah, so like, I'm always trying to ask from point of integrity within my relationship to self, so I can meet them with integrity as well. And the same thing, if I don't understand what's coming through to someone, I'm not going to make it up. I'm going to go, didn't I just I don't know. I'm so sorry. Like, I'm not going to say shit if it's not actually, if it's not clear, wow, so in the beginning you're doing raikai, yeah, getting rackeye with people doing Reiki, and you start seeing things, yeah, what sort of things were you seeing and like, Do you remember any early stories of something that was really crazy, that maybe felt crazy to you, but was instantly validated by a client to make you feel less crazy. Oh, my God. Like there's so many like, there are so many like crazy stories, seriously, but I feel I one of the ones that stands out is I. Like, I never used to listen to mantra at all, like Sanskrit mantra. And I was kind of like, I don't know what the mantras mean, so I'm not going to listen or play them. Then I remember I was doing Reiki with a client one day, and I had a carefully curated spotter fly like playlist, you know? And the playlist changed, and spirit can change, like, they can flip technology. They can change playlists. Like they think it's funny a lot of the time. Like, I remember being in healings with people and like, Lincoln Park starts playing. Metallica starts playing. I'm like, What the fuck it's because that song resonates with that person's soul. Wow. But in this particular time, I remember Sanskrit mantra started playing, and I was standing back from my beautiful client, who's like on a massage table, all blessed and chilled out, and I started to watch the energy of the mantras come into the room. Because mantras are prayers like and because they have their own consciousness, which is 1000s of years old, I'm going, Holy shit. So when this mantra is being played by Spotify randomly, I don't even know what this says, but again, this is why that spirit would teach me. They'd have stuff come in, like songs or frequencies, and then I'd go, Okay, I'm starting to put it together. So I saw this incredible light coming through with the music, and I saw the lights completely take over the whole person. It was like they were sitting in just this incredible like gold energy. So I couldn't see their form, and I remember just watching it play out, going, shit. I'm like, it's because the mantras are pulling down and through that energy for this person. And I'm like, You guys are showing me, right? You're teaching me with this. And that's when I started to be really interested in the frequencies of music, because I can see the frequencies and how they affect people in different way and come down through the body. So I remember learning that like early on in my journey, and then playing with, yeah, different mantras and seeing how they literally landed for people and like, so it like that particular mantra, I could see was incredible for opening up the crown. So even today, like, if I'm with someone in their crowns, like chakras, I'll start saying the mantra, because it's going to bring that energy that's going to help to open up that person's crown that's wild and it it makes so much sense, I think, to me logically, but not having experienced it the way you do is a whole level. So sometimes it's like frequencies, and you'll see visuals, and that could be through music or mantra. What are the things like? What's the experience like for you? I've often wondered, you know, I know been sessions. When we've had sessions, and it's like, you'll say, All right, just pour yourself a drink or whatever, or get comfy, and you do your thing. You go and do your thing. And sometimes I go, Oh, fuck, isn't that? All right? Like, it looks like you're going through something intense in the moment, and you're talking, and sometimes you're breathing and moving, energy, shaking a little bit. I'm always wondering, what's her experience? Is she okay? Like, Oh, bless you, yeah, yeah, no, I'm curious. Like, what other things happen for you? What's the experience when you're in a session? Yeah, for sure, it depends on the why, like, why someone has come for a session, because different things will show up depending on the intention for the session. But the type of stuff that comes up is like, I can see their field of energy around them. I can and the field of energy tells me heaps about their internal state as well. I can definitely cannot see all the layers of energy. I can see the chakras. I can see their connection to Source. I can see the nervous system. I can see that can I can see, does this person more so come from their mind, and does the mind dictate their life? Or does this person come more from their soul or spirit? Or are they in alignment where they come from, both their beauty of their mind and their beauty of their soul and spirit? Because that's alignment to me. When we're like, hey mind, what do you think? And we're like, hey soul, what do you feel? And we act from like those, like navigation points, but it's like, when I close my eyes, it's like, I get screens in front of me, and I get to, like, it's detective work. I get to look at the screen and ask questions, like, let's say someone's projecting some shit out at their kids, and they want to know. I want to be a more present parent who doesn't project my shit out. But I don't know why I do this. So what I can do is I can ask spirit to show me, show me what is the wound here which has created that? And then how do we lovingly, like, see the wound and then help her to realize this, oh, that she can heal it, so she doesn't project at their kids. So I get like, oh, and that that may be, you know, and then I'll see dad's energy came in. And maybe dad said something to a little five year old herb, which created the wound, which means she now shouts at her five year old daughter type thing. So I get to say, Okay, where's mom? And. Picture, where's Auntie in the picture, where's grandmother in the picture, and then we can call in different energies and see the response of the soul as well. I don't enjoy or like doing, but I honor that people sometimes need it, like future predictions, and I that's not really my vibe at all, because I think the future is ours to create. Like we have the doors open, and we need to be creators in our own life. So, yeah, so I see the screens, I can see, I can see mental health. The way mental health shows up is really interesting. And I can sometimes discern that's bipolar, that's, you know, borderline. That's schizophrenia, by the way that it shows up. I can hear the person's inner critic a lot of the time as well. And that honestly, like, I'm, like, some people are so mean to themselves. And then again, we're going to go, Okay, what's the why, spirit, take me back, where did this originate from? And where did that originate from? And where did that originate from? Because, you know, people can be so hard on themselves, especially they've got an internal critic, but when we can give them a sense of compassion, like, hey, babes, this is the reason that you're that way, and we're not laying blame on anybody, but this is where we can lovingly start to shift things, because we know that you're a product of but therefore you can also heal it as well, and like, Come home to yourself in a different way. So yeah, it's, like I said, it's always so different. But I am in a very privileged position for what I can see. And I also get to see stuff, like spirit guides, beings who I don't understand at all, like, as in, like, sometimes I see stuff and I'm like, I don't even know what that is like if it's human for if it's human form or whatever, doesn't scare me, but I'm just like, okay, that's different. But one of the reasons that I shut off from spirituality and wanted nothing to do with it is because I could always see dark energy as well and nasty energy, and that scared the bejesus out of me. And so it wasn't just all love and light. I could see the the thickness of, like, almost what we were talking about before we jumped on today, of like, heavy energy. And that's when I really questioned my mental health as well. So, and that's why I shut down, because I just couldn't, I couldn't tolerate the heaviness of it, yeah, but even, but now today, if there is like, I'm fine with heavy energy, but when heavy energy has a personality, let's say I now know how to work with God, with spirit, with source for that. But back in the day, that used to scare me, and I still see darkness, but I have a different relationship with it now than I had when I was first beginning my spiritual journey. Wow. And were you religious before? Like because you mentioned God source, I think you use that interchangeably. Were you, did you come from a religious background before any of this? Not at all, not at all. Like that, my parents were Catholic, but, you know, they were Catholic by title, not by any action. But I feel like, I feel like what I do is always with God, and I won't always use like that title, because it can make some people feel uncomfortable if say they've got religious trauma. But I stand really closely with God, and I stand really closely with God as a relationship that I've defined myself, not by a doctrine has defined that for me. So I'm I'm constantly in prayer, like all the time, or constantly speaking a spirit, not necessarily out loud, but through my heart. And I trust God like I have full faith. God is a representation of love for me, which is why I say God, but I respect anybody else's like, deities or whatever faith they come from. So but with me, like, I'm always like, I've got a real like, God's my ride or die. Like I love God. Like, I'm like, down with God. Like, all the time. I like, I know we had a conversation very quickly. You probably don't remember. We're like, damn, God's trending. Like, and I'm like, it is this is a cool thing. But people are redefining their relationship with God on their own terms, which is awesome, yeah, yeah, there's definitely been, I've noticed, and it could just be a bit of an echo chamber, because you stay on one reel for a bit too long, and then you just get more of it. Yeah, yeah. I remember thinking God has made a comeback, and Australia has never really been God ish, but I noticed lots of people turning to God. And for me, who did go to the Catholic school and the Catholic churches, and personally, went through my own rejection of it. I didn't like the word God. I didn't like spirituality. I thought people that were woo, woo would just, you know, be airy fairy, totally getting judgment, similar to what I I resonate with you, and I had to go through my own iteration of because I'm like, there's gotta be something like, there's something that no one can explain. There is something higher that no one quite understands. And so it's really interesting to have chats with you. And. And I suppose, like validation, or not even validation, but resonance to something that I've always felt, which is, there's something higher, there's something magical that we don't understand, yeah, but it's there. And and for people listening, who are like, I kind of am into it. I've kind of opened to it. And I think lots of people who listen are, were there any signs for you that maybe you ignored before you opened up? And you know, practice? Because I think I've heard you say everyone can to certain extents, but maybe not if we reject it or we're closed off to it. How do people start to honor or tune into intuition. How do you know the difference between communicating with God or your anxiety? Like, what is intuition? How do we open up this channel or connection to spirit more? Yeah, such a like, interesting question and but so multi layered, so I'll probably massively oversimplify it, but your relationship with spirit and your spiritual development is a reflection of your relationship with yourself. So if you're asking for intuitive guidance, so you know, connect to higher self, or connect to self like your your God within, if you do not have a relationship of trusting yourself, you're not going to trust what comes in, because you're going to go, Yeah, nah. Like that. So like there is absolutely reflections of your relationship with self, which comes really strongly with your relationship to spirit, because sometimes you have to have faith in what you're downloading or receiving as inspiration, even if you don't know why you're having faith in it, like just choose to have faith in it anyway. And what I found with like, when Spirit speaks to us in the various through the various clears of the way that we can pick up on spirit, it's loving and it's kind. It's not like it comes in differently, the way that fear comes in and anxiety comes in, and because we're also different, we pick up on the different downloads from spirit or gentle guidance in different ways. But there's bread crumbs which come out, which are dropped for us, like, all the time, like, look at the number plate of the car in front of you. Look at the street signs. Like, listen to the lyrics of the song that's just randomly come on as you cruise in your car like it's coming all the time. Sometimes I joke I'm like, spirit guides must be sitting there. Sometimes, is she going to fucking see this sign? Like we've really tried, like I wrote, yep, she missed that one again. All right. Boys, on to the next one. Sometimes we're picking up all of them, but I think there's like, console in our corner going, Yep, see this one they and what I do know is I do see, like, I'll call them angels, but they don't look like angels. Like, in the biblical form, sometimes they see angels like, whispering in people's ears, like, because they're trying to get through something to someone, and it's usually something kind like, hey, Breanna, can you just ask that homeless person of their call? Like, if they're all right, the angel might be saying something like that to you. We can still ignore it. And then you actually see the angel go now that this person's not hearing that whisper. But I do see angels like, trying to get people to listen to the whispers, like, all the time. And is it a case of like, you can ignore it all you like, but eventually they'll scream like it'll hit you in the face. Eventually, I think it definitely can, yeah, absolutely. I think it can. And then it's like, right? She's not listening, so now she's listening, yeah, yeah. I've found that experience like when you ignore your own intuition, your own gut, your own guidance, too many times, eventually the universe will force you to listen Absolutely. That happens a lot when it comes to sickness as well. There's a lot of correlations between that, but yeah, they're constantly trying to get through to us. But at the same time, I found that with spirit, they absolutely honor our free will, so that's why I'm always encouraging people to, like, just ask, because it's like, there's a line there, and they can't cross the line. And unless you go, Hey, can I get some extra help over here? Then they're like, Yep, sure. How do we help you? But if, like, the person doesn't want the help, they'll still be helping, but it will be more of like a background thing, whereas when we really open up to their help. They're like, yep, we understand. We're here. What do you need? And what I've also found is that, like we're spirit, spirit guides, they very, very rarely tell someone exactly what to do again, because they respect people's free will. So usually they'll go, you've got this door and you've got this door and you've got this door, and if you choose to walk through this door, this is this door today. Which door would you like to choose? It's a constant. So literally, we just see this constant, like moving and shuffling of doors. They do sometimes tell people exactly what to do, but I've more so witnessed that in like a. Um, really dangerous situations, but they never, ever, like, take away our freedom of choice, and, like I was saying before, our creativity and even by what I do, I have to make sure that I don't take away people's ability to be creative as well, because sometimes the nature of what I do is used in a way which I don't think is healthy, like our lives are so predictable at the moment, you know, like Google's telling us what to Google Spotify is telling us what to listen to, like all the things, it's so curated. But we also need to have a lost path as well, so that we can be the paintbrush. You know, we, you know, we can. We can be that creator. And if I tell people absolutes, which I never would, but absolute it takes a power away from them when we're already having that power taken away from us, and we don't even realize a lot of the time. So I'm really mindful of being honest with people, being sensitive, but also not taking away their power to be that creator, that they, that they are. I have actually observed you doing that where, like, when. That's why I love working with you. It's like you've got such a respect for autonomy, and you've got such, like, a high understanding of ethics and projections that you never just project what you're thinking or seeing. It's so I try not to. It would be hard, because you would see so much and go, Oh, how do I deliver this without lacing and it would, yeah, like having your own projections. And I'm sure you're a human we're all human at the end of the day, and you'd have your own biases, and, yeah, preconceived ideas about things and your own projections. So how do you make sure that you, I suppose, filter that out, so that you're just delivering something without someone taking it in such a powerful way and therefore taking away their own autonomy? Yeah, it's so important. Like, it's so important to try and, like, really create those foundations early on, what I have found before is people like give me their power. They're like Nat knows she's telling her spirit and I'm always like, do not give me your power, because I respect the spirit that you are. So the way I try and do that is let everybody who comes to see me know that they can challenge me on anything that I say like they because I do. I respect their their inner compass, you know, and I want them to know that their voice matters to me and that I can make mistakes. If I'm reading something and it is going through my own filters, then I can make mistakes. And if someone doesn't feel like they can push back their session isn't going to be as meaningful to them, because I may have got it wrong without, you know, ever, ever wanting to get it wrong for someone, yeah, but I remember a few years ago, I had a woman here with me, and she'd been in really narcissistic relationships previously, and she does come into a new relationship, and she wanted me to Check the energetics of the present relationship to make sure she wasn't having the wool pulled over her eyes and entering back into old cycles of narcissistic relationships. So I tuned in, did my thing, and I'm looking at the relationship patterns, and I start to describe her new partner, and I start thinking like, this is, this is, this is definitely, like, so many narcissistic traits I start to, like, reel them off. Anyway, she stopped me, and she was like, Nah, I feel like you've got the wrong partner, because everything you're describing is from the previous partner. And I so love and respect that she did that. And so it was a quick course change. I was like, Oh my God, thank you so much. I retrained. And I'm like, right? Got the present partner completely different from the one I had been picking up. But if she had not told me, Yeah, about that, I had got the wrong energy there. Her session could have really derailed her, yeah, and like, so that's why, from that moment, I was like, I need everyone to feel a level of safety with me that they can push back, because there is that place for human error, and some and people do know, you know. So it does, it does happen. But of course, we try and navigate, tried for that not to happen as much as possible. And it's hard to like, say I'll be channeling for a woman who's having a hard time in their relationship. And then I'll ask me, I can you look at this and I'll see, because I see a lot of women, I'll see the man, and I'll be going, this is my human filter that to myself, I'm like, he looks like a real asshole. This is what I'm thinking internally. He's a dickhead. Yeah, I mean, I called someone a fuck boy yesterday, like I wouldn't usually do that, but I know this quite well. We're having a laugh, but I wouldn't deliver it like that, but that's hard, because at this point I might not. Know how this woman actually feels about her husband, and so I'm giving a judgment with that, because I can see like I can see his projections. I can see where he's projecting it from. I can see that there's a within him, but she may think that he's the best person in the whole world, and that is great, and it's not my right to take that away from her in a nasty way. I have to be transparent with her, but I need to deliver, deliver it in a way that feels safe and comfortable for her to be able to digest as well. And that happens with parent relationships as well, like, or if I see, like, the dad might have cheated, and I'm like, do I bring this up? No, I'm not like, I'm just going to leave that one. We'll leave that for another session. Yeah, that's so much like responsibility, I suppose. And I think even in the last, I think last year, I was getting to my Desperado stage, and I was like, Nat, just tell me when, like, I kept saying I just wanted to know when. I just wanted to know time and I can see how if people aren't super self aware or checking their own shit and seeing where they're giving too much power away or looking for control or whatever it might be, I was definitely, I think it was at the retreat. I was like, can you just tell me when blessed? Can you just tell me when this fucking stubborn baby is coming through. And I was getting so frustrated. And I thought after it would be really hard in your shoes, if somebody has pedestalized what you've said and made it fact, made it Nope. Nat said that this is going to happen. NAT said that it's going and you've always been so resistant to give timelines, because I know you've explained to me, like time such a weird construct and it moves, yeah? But if you were to give a time or a quote prediction or a reading, and then somebody holds you to that and looks for a someone to get angry at or be frustrated at, it would be you totally. Have you had that experience too? Oh, my God. I've had that experience. Like, not so many times, but I've definitely, or like, Nat, why didn't you fix me? Yeah, I came to you to fix me. I got a message like that a couple of days ago. I'm like, Honey Boo. Like, no. Like, yeah. So that does happen, but and I have to be careful of my relationship with that, because it can go into wounds. For me, you didn't do a good enough job. You're not enough. You need to stop what you're doing like you're not you're not on the mark anymore. So I need to watch my internal dialog with it, rather than getting into that grace and go, do you know what fucking did the best that you could. You were super honest with your person. That's what you were saying. You relayed what you see, you know, timeline shift and change all the time. So because otherwise, I can take it really personally. And I've done that before, and I've carried it like as luggage on my back, like I should have done better, and then it affects all the it has a domino and other sessions with, like, this sense of, I trust myself, you know, yes, you can trust yourself. You work with God. You don't trust God. So just let things come. But it definitely, in the past, has rocked me, and it still does. Sometimes I just have to catch it, you know, and give compassion for sometimes I won't get it straight up or, bang, yeah, and that people do put that on me, but that's not about me, that's on them. So I usually reflect it back to the to them and go, Hey, you know, let's just look at what this, what this communication is, and what this means for you. Yeah, but it's a, it's a tricky situation, like it really is, yeah, so gnarly. So if people are coming to a session like this, where it's this context, how is the best way? Because I've I remember having a friend who, she booked a session with you a few years ago. I think she also came to the retreat, one of my besties, and her natural state is to come in. She's a scientist come in, cynical with poker face. And I'm like, it doesn't work like that. Like people are almost trying to, like, catch your bluff, or like, yeah, you know, so A is that something that you expect you, by the way, that was the best ever, because she is, you know, the she's just very cynical and, yeah, even though she's very Woo and very spiritual herself, she'll always come in, I guess, poker face first. But then you just called Oh, this and this and this, and it was so specific, wildly specific. And she was like, Holy shit, like you said things that I think it was about her partner that was so specific about his hobbies and all sorts. But what is the best way for someone to come into a session, whether it's with you or a medium, a psychic, a shaman, like, do you come in heart open? I find I just tell you everything that's on my mind and heart. I'm not trying to trick anyone. But like, how do you get the best sort of Breanna? Results, I suppose, or the most support from the spiritual realms. Some people don't like to be told anything as a reader, but but with me, I like to honor they're human, like before I jump into a channel. So I'm like, tell me what's up. Tell me what you need. Tell me what you're going through. The best way I feel to go into a session is open heart, open mind, knowing you can take on whatever lands and just leave what doesn't. But also, I feel like it's, it's also healthy and okay to have a healthy dose of skepticism as well, or cynicism, especially if you've never met that person before, because that can keep you safe within spiritual hygiene as well. But for me, it's actually, it's, for me as a reader, it's heaps easier. If the person's like, open. Like, hate is easier, because even when I go to read them, if they're showed up to a session, so they're open, but they're not open. It's like, sometimes I need, like, an energetic jar camera to, like, get through. I'm like, wait until, like, to come through the layers to be able to see and open up to things. So it's easy as a reader, if the person is just, like, transparent with stuff, for sure, well, for me anyway, yeah, okay, amazing. I wanted to quickly touch gears, because this is a change gears. Sorry. This is a conversation that I just fucking loved having with you. I can't remember when, where I was sort of saying, like, I personally am, you know, I will pray and I communicate with whoever's listening, and I come to you, and I believe in it strongly, but I've never fully felt like home in spiritual communities, like I'll go into Moon circles, or I've tried lots of different things. I've gone to events, I've dabbled in the communities, and I always just feel like this isn't me. Like, I don't talk airy fairy, and I don't like, you know, I just don't feel like I fully fit in that spiritual, spiritual community. And I remember you saying, like, fuck yeah, I want to go to a spiritual community, but like, listen to Snoop Dogg and, like, fucking r&b and slut drop, and we were just laughing about the duality of, you know, bothness, yeah. How have you found that? Like you're so in the spiritual community and the work that you do, and you're also so you're all of the things like we all are, but like, how have you found the marriage of these two seemingly different, I suppose, identities or communities, and how do you exist in that space? Yeah, I'm very much like you in that sense. I feel like I don't vibe with and I know people who do, and that's all good. Yeah, I don't. I've stuck at meditating like, I'm not good at that, like, and I don't vibe with real airy fairy type stuff when they're saying a whole lot, but they're not really saying anything at all. It just grates on me. I have a real intolerance for that, which I have to be mindful of. But I feel like there's a stereotypical way of that spiritual spiritual teachers was showing up, and I feel like there's a break in the mold now, like, you check out. Like Chris Corsini as an astrologer, he's fucking wicked. The way he talks as a spiritual teacher is not just like, he's like, real raw and out there. I think people now are more so appreciating the rawness and the realness and that it can have different flavors. Like at the last retreat that I ran, I was doing exactly that. I was smudging people, and we were listening to hip hop, and I saw this lady like bounce, and she goes, you know, you're at nats retreat when you're being smudged to hip hop. And I'm like, Yeah, girl, we might play some mantra, whatever, but like, we're getting, like, the different flavors, and for sure, because I think old school way too is that spirituality is stuff like yoga or like meditation, and it is, it is. But I personally feel like anything that lights up your spirit, genuinely, from the heart, is spiritual. So like, let's say you and I go to a kick ass concert, and our spirits glowing. Our spirit glows. It's like a church for us. And we could be, I don't know, whatever concert, but like we're closer to God in that moment, because our spirit's glowing like we're walking down the beach and you're just like in the sunshine listening to tunes. Spirit's going like spiritual moment if you're making your spirit glow like, I don't have a lot of time for self care at the moment. So I'll, like, go for a drive, blast tunes, and I'll be like, singing like a bad bitch, like, literally, like a bad bitch in my car. And it's like, spiritual for me, because I feel myself glow again, and then I'm out of the car and my my fields change, and I feel closer to God. So I think we're breaking away from stereotypes. I don't tend to hang around in spiritual communities a lot of the time, yeah, which is because I feel I can be a judgy bitch to be honest, but I also feel like I have a right to do that, because I can see so much I call bullshit in my own mind, then I feel like a bitch for doing it. So I'm like, just let people have what they have. Nat but yeah, you know, then I do really honest the way. Some people hold space like one of my favorite people in the world is Courtney Wilder. And Courtney has that way of delivering stuff. She has that soft, sultry voice. But with Courtney, it's so real and authentic that it's it's her. She's not putting it on, yeah, to be that. She just is that. So when Courtney does it, I'm like, This feels so good. But if someone are putting it on, because that's what you do, I'm like, No, it's not, yeah, you can sense the the lack of authenticity, I think, like, the person's putting on the costume, yeah, yeah. And then I see, like, I remember around the covid vaccine, right? Like, and don't worry, I'm not getting into those topics. But I just high level. There were heaps of people on Instagram like healers. And they were like, Oh, if you've had the vaccine, then I can channel the vaccine out of your energy field. And they were charging, like, between two and three grand sometimes for these channels and healings. And I'm like, bullshit, like, Why are you pulling the wool over people's eyes? Like, stuff with stuff like that that I see. So I'm being unfair. I can hear it to spiritual communities. There are some awesome people out there. There were some wicked people who are really good at the craft. But like any industry, you get the light and you get the dark. I kind of just stand in my own light with it and just kind of rock my own vibe. Because I'm like, you. I don't really feel 100% like I'm really Woo, although I am woe, like I kind of light up my spirit in my own way, and my connection to God. So what kind of hoaxy? There's been a few things lately where I'm like, What the actual fuck these spiritual it's like spiritual gaslighting or bypassing or, like, who was it? I think there was a recent saga where Aubrey Marcus was saying he's channeled God, and it was essentially something about how everyone needs to be in non monogamous relationships and threesome. Like, I can't remember what it was, and it was, it was just this crazy, like, he'd been blessed by this holy voice that had said, basically, sexual non monogamy is the most holy way. And he was inviting people into his like, I don't know sexual world. Oh, something very it was just a bit and I didn't look too much into it, but I've seen a few things where I've gone, and that is why, for me, I sort of can just see how in that world, it has been used, sometimes by some people similar to, like you said, there's light and there's there's some. Have you seen other things like, you know, there's the people who are going to clear you of the covid vaccine, yeah. Is there anything else that you just call complete bogus on? Yeah? So past lives are relevant for sure, and past lives can definitely affect us today. But the amount of shit that I have clients come to me, and they'll be would have told someone, would have told them something about a past life, and therefore it validates them in this lifetime, I always have to be poor because Lifetime I'm like, No, that's not how this works. Like and whoever said that to you, that's not truth, you know. But they've, they've defined their life by what this person has said about their past life, which has been complete bullshit. So I think that's why we need to have, like, a whole, a healthy dose of skepticism as well. Like, yeah, there's so many eye roll moments, honestly, that I have all the time that I just think, like, Okay, I need to, like, disconnect because I'm pissing myself off by, like, some of the stuff that's coming through. I think that there's, like, I see this a lot at the moment, and I feel like it's really dangerous. So people talk about spiritual attachments and entities, right? And like, let's say Bree, you and I are in a session, and I'm like, Bree, you have a really dark demonic energy around you, and you know all this stuff. Let's say Bree goes, oh my god, that's so true. But you don't have anything like that going on. I've now ladled that on you. You're taking an honest truth, and now you're going to act in your life as if that's true, because you're believing it. But I think it's I see people do that more and more now, like, Oh, you've got an entity. I'm like, no, they fucking don't. Just because they're fearful about something does not mean it's that. But I'm like, be very careful of the words, because people will attach. You have to be which is why, when I mentor people, I'm like, I've got a really high bar. Because I'm like, if you're going to go into this field and support people on this way, you have to be super knowledgeable on trauma, like you need to be clinically Well, not that you need to be clinically trauma informed. But know about trauma, know about the nervous system. You have to be across some science, some body stuff, but you also need to be so impeccable at your craft, because we literally can hold people's lives in our hands. And if you say shit, that's just to like, I'm going to say this because I'm going to end on my knees like I see actually see it a lot in the breath work community. And. Fucking love breath work. So I will premise that. But I love breath work, but the amount of ego and the breath work facility, like, and the spiritual communities with breath work, I go, Oh my gosh. Like, yeah, that's such a that that's like, that's just wrong. Like, that's so unethical. And then I have arguments with God about that. I'm like, How are you allowing this? Like, what's going on? God? You know, my little mini tantrums to God, so I'm very curious, and like, trying to work stuff out all the time. But, you know, then again, like, Colette Baron Reed as a spiritual teacher, she's awesome. Old school, Carolyn mace, like, she's awesome. Like, there's some really, really cool people out there teaching good shit. But there's people who are dabbling in spirituality that should only be doing stuff as a hobby, not as a profession, because it's just dangerous for people. Yeah, and they're just making money from it, but it's like, it's not ethical at all. Yeah, I often have those conversations with God where I'm like, What the actual fuck like, I believe in you. I believe in you. So why does that two year old have cancer or I believe in you? So why is life just so fucking unfair for some people? Like, if God is good and God is all loving, expansive life force, energy. Have you had that internal conflict where you're just like, I believe, but I believe in love, but What the actual fuck all the time, all the time like? And so I read the book a few years ago, conversation with God, I think it's a volume of three. It may be a volume of four, I'm not sure, but I only think I read like, the first book, anyway, it it like meant something to me. And it was like, you know, when people say, you know, why is why? Why is there like, poverty in the world? Like God, if you're so great, go heal that. And like, the response from God is, because, actually, if we really wanted to start world hunger, we could, right now, like, if we actually stopped, like, you know, buying coffees every morning for the privileged. Who can do that? And actually, we went, here you go, but we don't. We choose not to. But then we put it on God, like, God, why are you not saving humanity? And God's going well, you have the God within, and I've given you the school, the tools to do this, but are you actually willing to see it and be one with humankind and and actually offer that love, or are you just like you're to stay in your zone? And we, you know, we do. We stay in our zone. But I guess the point of this is that God has given us tools to heal some stuff as well, but we don't always want to, or we don't like we always. We all want world peace, right? But we don't act in ways that could actually help it as well. You know, true so, but I tangent tantrum about that a lot I have because I see some really awesome people as clients, and often I sit there afterwards and go, shit, you know, this person's so cool and they're so hot, and they've just had thing after thing after thing happen to them. And then I start questioning stuff like, manifestation, right? I'm going, okay, so I never want to take away anybody's everybody can manifest. Manifest, everybody can create. But I'm like, is it also true that other people's manifestations can sometimes supersede our own, and then we don't get to create, you know, like third world country and stuff like that. Like, there's a privilege to manifestation as well. You know, like, if you're a black kid, he's been born into poverty, you have a different level of manifestation privilege to someone who's born in this society over here. But we tend not, we tend not to see that as well. Like, we only want to see what we want to see. But So sometimes, like, I question stuff, like the manifestation stuff, and then I know that there's that spiritual belief that, well, this person took this soul journey, they knew they were going into it for their soul growth. And I'm like, That could also be true. I think there's multiple truths going on at one time, but I think it's interesting, because truth changes all the time, like, the more you learn, the less that you know. And then your truth is, like, flipping because you're like, fuck it. That's true. That means that's not true shit. And I was sure that was truth, and now I'm over here. So, like, what does this all mean? Like, it's a constant Alice going down the rabbit hole. Yeah, I don't have, I know you're not asking me for answers. I don't have answers to that. But I often think about it, and I often think about, I have this gentleman who comes to see me, and he has arenas full of people, and he, like he channels God, and he wears a massive crucifix around his chest and stuff. And when people go into his temple, and it's like auditoriums of 1000s of people, they all want to hear right? And God, does energy Spirit works through him. Like, definitely people in that room are touched by that. Because, again, I can see energies. I'm like, Whoa. That's cool, really cool. But on the daily that gentleman I know is like, controlling, demanding, super narcissistic, super greedy. I'm like, God, why do you work with people who are so who can be so that way? Like you look at some beautiful spiritual healers and people who are so gifted spiritually, but they're actually real assholes in their daily life. I question that with God. I'm like, God, like, what's going on? It's the light and dark within all of us. Yeah. So when that gentleman was in that moment of holding holy ceremony for these 1000s of people, he's with God, but when he's doing his daily life, you know, He's greedy and he's mean and he's nasty. So again, it's the it's but I wouldn't like, but why would you work with him? Then God? And God's like, because he's still open to being with me, and he's still helping people, but that sort of stuff blows my mind as well, because I'm like, How is that a thing? I get it's a thing, but there's something about that doesn't sit well within my little human so I do, I listen. I have little tensions with God all the time. Yeah, I can see I resonate with so much of what you just said. And then I also think if all of us are all things, it's my ego calling that a bad person. Yes, my he's bad, he's narcissistic, he's selfish, he's controlling. And not looking at my own shit and going well, I'm I can be controlling. I can probably have narcissistic tendencies. I can be a bit country. Sometimes I can be judgy, and so, yeah, I always pull myself back to like, hold on, if all of us are good and bad, yeah, then do we just return to love and love them for their bad just as much as they're good. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like, totally, yeah. I go around in circles. I know I yeah, I remember years ago, I had this gentleman come see me, and when I'm in sessions, I I have to love people like not I have to, but I choose to love people, right, because I can be of more service to them and more connection to God, if my heart is open and I'm not judging. So I do judge in my daily because I'm right, but in in like conflict with what I'm just saying. Oh, this gentleman come see me few years ago, and he was an ex gang, like top and gangs, and he was trying to pull himself out of it, right? And when I tuned in, I could see the screens of some really, like, horrific things that he had done. And I remember sitting there before I said anything to him, and I'm like, talking to spirit, and I'm like, you like, just tell him off. Like, can you give me, like, a channel? Because I was, this is my human judgment, right? And I was like, like, Give me something to tell him from you that, like, almost like, puts him in his place. And I'm kind of embarrassed to say this, because as I say this to you, I also honor that it wasn't the right path, but I learned something from it, and what it was is as I was like, having this like dialog, like within myself, like God's Spirit, source, whoever it was that was communicating with me at that time, was like, That's not your place, like you're here to just continue to love and bring through the messages he's here for help and for love. It's not your place to judge. We will not do that. We will connect with his why. We will connect with why he's chosen the path and the pain there and the trauma there, and we're going to meet him with compassion and grace, and that's your job as well. I went, Yeah, and I remember, I remember this because, like, it made me more aware of, like, how my how I needed to when I, when I, when there is a judgment coming through, come back to that love, and it's not a bypass, because I know that they are only going to meet us with love like and that dude who's done some terrible things, they were meeting him with kindness. They were meeting him with like, I know the truth of your soul. I know I know the power of who you really are, because the pain that he inflicted on people was from this. It wasn't from his truth here. And so I always remember that thinking sessions are all about love. You have to love the person. But that one floored me, because it's the one session I remember that I really went into it like and it's not right. It wasn't it wasn't right, but it was part of the learning. Wow, that's Yeah, it's true. And it's that reminder, I suppose, like you said in the beginning, to circle back, our relationship with the higher power or source or God, is a reflection of our internal relationship. We can't love others. We can't love others, and try to be non judgmental if we can't even do that with ourselves. So I suppose the most spiritual thing you can do in the beginning is to work on your relationship with yourself, love yourself, watch your own judgments, and then you can start to heal others, I suppose. Yeah, absolutely no, I would concur with that. And it's not BEX, it's like a constant. We're constantly showing up to that, like all the time, yeah, I think that relationship with self comes is. Important for every single context of our lives, not just our relationship with spirituality, not just our relationship with God, but yeah, everything that we choose to do create comes from that relationship, from with self. I could talk to you for 10,000 hours, but I also realize that you've probably got clients and plants and all your hip hop Yeah, so I want to, I wanted to wrap it up with a couple rapid fire questions, and it's just the first thing that comes to mind. So are you happy to do some rapid fire? Okay, this kind of scares me, but yeah, what would you say to someone who feels they might have some spiritual gifts, but doesn't trust themselves. Oh, I would definitely say like, well, it's kind of obvious. I'd say you need to work on that trust within themselves. But I would be curious to see where the blocks are that prevent them from trusting the self, because we can't just go to trust. I mean, we can, but if there's a block there, we need to unhook the block with love, with kindness. So be like, well, we need to be curious to why that's there in the first place. And then when we can remove that, then we bring you closer to yourself, and then you can start to trust beautiful. What is something that concerns you about humanity right now? Oh, I think that we are becoming more and more vulnerable to conflict within the self. So you know how, like, here in Australia, we don't have war here, right? And so we're like, we don't have war here, like there's peace here, but I feel like whatever happens in the world, we get like, thought viruses. And so the thought viruses is what we can absorb and take in, which puts us at war within the self, and that can put us way more in ego and take us away from the heart and spirituality. And I see that coming through in really covert ways. Like, have you seen that? Like the Barefoot Investor did an email about it, but heaps of people are talking about when you ask chat, if you were the darkness, how would you infiltrate society these days? And it's like, I would give them everything they want. I would be the dopamine feed. And you're like, that's confronting, because that's kind of true, like, it's very seductive. You know, we are we are zombie, fine. We're getting anesthetized. We're losing that creativity. And that's because the structures, like, I was thinking about the shadow of ease, because I've been like, I want so much ease in my life. I want ease. And I'm like, fuck, I do want ease. Don't get me wrong, but some of the things that give me ease actually take so much shit away from me at the same time, if they're taking away my creative power. So like, I look at society, go, we didn't even know that we're being sucked in. Sometimes what we're being sucked in. And I'm like, don't get stuck in the fear, but also witness it, but don't get stuck in the fear. I feel this so deeply. It's I feel the same with like, creativity and chat makes things easier. And I've Yeah, same with you. I've always been like, I just want easy, and the more I've received easy, the more I've realized that it was never ease that I wanted, because it actually didn't feel fulfilling. There was no pride at the end of it, yeah, yeah. You lose that character building that only comes through the struggle, yeah, things like chat, GPT, one, I love writing. Writing is my outlet. Writing is my creativity. Chat makes it so similar to what you just said chat is making it so tempting and alluring to just outsource the thing that I love the most to this that is so perfectly programmed to do it quicker and better and all the things, but then take away your joy at the same time. And it's I really am deeply concerned for society and how much we're outsourcing our humanness and our discipline and our resilience and exactly like you said, our sensitivity to dopamine. It bothers me. What's going going on? I feel exactly the same way, and it's such an interesting like, yeah, with the writing that's come up because, yeah, I was like, I've got to write newsletters, right? Not that I've written one in a while, but I should be writing newsletters. And I'm like, yeah, just get on chat GTP that can nail it out. And I'm like, No, it's not the same. It's not the same for my soul. It's not the same for my spirit. It doesn't have the energetics that really touch someone as well, because it's not coming from a human to human connection, but yet, oh, my God, it's sake, because it's so easy and it's just like, done, yeah, but honey, boo, you don't know what your sacrifice on that journey of ease. I hear everything that you're saying. I would concur. What are you most excited for about humanity right now? Oh, well, the opposite would be true with that missed excited about, I feel like, even though I've just pissed all over like, you know, thought viruses and stuff like that, I am excited that. Okay, I'll give you an example. The spiritual journey can be such an individual. Journey, right? But it needs to be a collective journey, like we only get to move forward if we're all moving forward, right? And so what lights me up about humanity is that even from an individual perspective, when I see people get through their ego, when I see because I don't believe, I believe that people can change, for sure, I do and what, when I see people come home to their own spirit. It has a domino effect with other people's spirit, with other people's spirit, with legacies, with children, with it. So the more people who come home to the grace of themselves and their heart and have the awakening. I just think awakening is just like love cracking open the heart, right? That lights me up, and that lights me up when I see clients go through that, because it has a ripple effect to human humanity. So again, we're at this conflict, this war. But I see, I I see the war happening like we would discuss, discussing, but I also see, I do still see people coming to heart who I would have never thought would come to heart. And I'm like, hallelujah, they're at heart, and then it affects their family, their friends, their everything. And you're just, like, doing this happy dance for people, you know, whether so that sort of stuff lights me up. When I see that happen. I'm like, it's awesome. Yeah, yeah. Final question, which is a very, I'm branding this a NAT question, okay, what is the number one song that you would go to if you needed, like, the NAT song that just lights up your soul, and the song that like makes you happy, oh, my god, like you've done this to me before. It's so much pressure. I love your music, actually, Nat. So when you do a session with Nat, she shares her screen because she often plays music. And I remember looking at it once and going, Oh, your music playlist, like, is just as bipolar as mine, from like, sexy R B to like Debbie and mantra to fucking you had such a huge variety of music that I was like, Oh, someone just as a collector myself, yeah, yeah. And I always think of Stan Walker when I think of you, oh, yeah, of course, that's cool. That was cool when we did that. That was really cool. It changes, like, what lights me up, honestly, like, at the moment, it's reincarnated by Kendrick Lamar. I thought we'd get a good response. That was the shining Lincoln Park like, it could be like Dolly Parton with shit, like, again, whatever lights up my spirit. But I do love that song, high love as well, as corny as it is, and that's why my retreats are called high love, like I do love. Tell me I love because, yeah, who doesn't deserve it? No, yeah, that's I didn't actually answer your question, like for today, for right now, my truth with that is Kendrick Lamar, but that could change tomorrow. I love it, Nat. Thank you so so so much for having this conversation with me. I could talk to you about life and humanity and spirituality and philosophy for all of the all of my days. And I know listeners will have loved this. So where can people connect with you? Where can people book a reading with you? Where can people find you? Bless you, honey. It's a privilege to be on here. It really is, especially because you're fucking cool. And I remember little Bree I remember when I met you. I'm going on a tangent. I do remember, like you just committed teaching, and you're like, Oh, I've got these dreams and these goals. And I'm like, awesome. You actually said to me in our first session, or maybe it was our second session, which was going back, fuck, maybe four or five years ago, I remember you had all this energy in your hands, and Fucking hell. Like you didn't say it like that. You Probably Didn't Know me enough. Now you probably would, but in the beginning you might not have said, fucking hell, you're intense, but like you said that, there was a lot of energy. And the first thing you said to me was, you know, you're here to write books, don't you? And I was just like, thank you. Like, I needed to hear that. Still haven't done it, by the way, but yeah, I remember saying that. And yeah, again, it was like this thing that, like, I never give my power, but it was this resonance that I already knew my soul. My soul just went, thank you. Yes to people, yeah to people listening. Just book a session, and it's, it's um, take what you want leave what you don't, and everything that resonates is for you, absolutely. Yeah. And people can find me on the gram at guided by Natalie, although you can find me look under Natalie saying as well, because I'm just about to go back to my original name. I'm claiming and reclaiming. I'm going through a reclamation. And also Natalie saying you can just Google that, and then you'll see my website come up as well, and I will hold you with love. I promise that I won't be a judgy bitch like I was to that guy. I promise. I promise. We will put all of those links in the show notes. Thank you so. So much for being here now. You're a fucking legend, and I just love your gifts. I love your human I love your soul. I love all parts of you. Thank you so much. Oh, bless you, honey bunny, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to the mind school podcast. It is a massive intention of mine to continue to grow this show, because the more the show grows, the better the guests get, and I know that is going to be so powerful for you listening. So if I could ask this massive favor, it would mean the world if you could please leave a review, hit the Follow button, or leave a rating on Spotify, so that we can continue to grow this show and bring you the juiciest, most thought provoking and expansive conversations through incredible guests. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'll see you next week. You.