Our Community, Our Mission
Our Community, Our Mission
Ep #275 – Purpose in the Pain: Meet Billy Brown
In this powerful episode, Billy Brown shares his raw journey through addiction, trauma, and redemption. From a broken home and early substance abuse to multiple suicide attempts, Billy offers a vulnerable glimpse into the mental, emotional, and spiritual toll of homelessness. His story challenges the idea that employment or housing alone can heal deep wounds—and shows how real transformation begins when someone is truly seen.
Now a staff member at TRM and pursuing his high school diploma, Billy uses his past to serve those still in crisis. Alongside Mick Ballinger, Director of Men's Services, they explore the power of relationship, purpose, and being acknowledged. If you’ve ever felt beyond repair, Billy’s story reminds us that healing is possible—and that pain, when met with compassion, can become a path to purpose.
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Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you, lord, for this day and your blessings. God, and just this time, for this podcast. Lord, we thank you for our wonderful guests today and the stories that they bring and share. Lord, I pray that our listeners would be blessed and encouraged today by them and, lord, that your spirit would just be with us right now. Lord, we love you and we praise your name. Amen.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone. This is LaManda Cunningham, the Topeka Rescue Mission CEO on this Tuesday, july 15th, where you are listening to Episode 275 of Our Community, our Mission man. I always feel like that is such a big intro.
Speaker 3:It is a big intro, and then I'm looking at my paper.
Speaker 2:Did I miss anything? Did I get it all you nailed?
Speaker 3:it.
Speaker 2:That's right. Thank you, josh, for the encouragement. I am joined today with two special guests to my right, a special guest in front of me and a special guest to the left. At first I realized I was going to act like they're special, and then you two are and we're not special.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we were feeling it. Did you like that? We're good. We were feeling it.
Speaker 2:So I have Josh across from me. Josh is the guru who is definitely making all of the technology work for these podcasts and has been doing that for five or six years while doing this, but he also is just the creative heart beside behind, always trying to communicate what we feel like God wants people to know, and so Josh appreciate all that you do. Also joined with Miriam. Hello, how are you Fine?
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure, anything excited going on, no, nothing Not at all. Nothing going on.
Speaker 1:It's really boring here.
Speaker 3:I sit in my office wondering is there anything to?
Speaker 2:do, that's right. You just work eight to four and barely an hour for lunch. Yes, that's right. In case you are a first time listener, there is usually a lot of opportunities, which AKA means challenges that we're facing at the rescue mission, but also a lot of just God's goodness and provision happening in our community, and that's really the heart of this podcast is to constantly be highlighting what multiple people are doing in our community and the good things about those roles, the challenging things about the roles just to really be transparent and represent how many people in this community are trying to do work on behalf of those who need it. And so today is going to be a great podcast. I'm excited about it. But before we get to those testimonies, you know, miriam, josh works really hard.
Speaker 3:Oh, I know he does. I think he works really hard to make sure that we're not going to be too serious. That's right.
Speaker 2:He makes us.
Speaker 1:Gotta bring some humor.
Speaker 2:Correct. Yes, we got to have some liveliness in this. So today there's three different things that we need to highlight. One is National Give Something Away Day.
Speaker 3:I could you know what? There are things in my office right now that I would be more than happy to give away.
Speaker 2:Oh you know, miriam, on a funny note, I actually thought about your desk for two reasons. For two reasons, I'm giving compliments, okay.
Speaker 3:Just stay with me.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm hanging with you. The first one is if you are ever in Miriam's office, she always has something to give away Chocolate, beef sticks, protein shakes, a random new tea she wants you to try because your throat's hurting, whatever the case may be. So she always has something to give away. And then two for some reason she always has work that's on her desk that she tries to give away and everybody, just like they laugh quickly, shakes their head like we're not doing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but on a serious note, today is National Give Something Away Day. One man's trash is another man's treasure, and so, looking at that, today, you know, try to give freely, without any expectation in return. But that this is also a good way to declutter, yes. I also liked how it said on here that that doesn't like one man. Trash another man's treasure doesn't literally mean junk or trash, but items that can serve someone else better. Yes, and.
Speaker 2:I think you know that is huge for all of us Right To really make sure Are we donating things? Are we realizing that just because we upgrade, someone else's upgrade depends on what we're donating and what we're giving? It also made me think of and we could do a whole podcast on this, so we won't. But it makes me think of our unsheltered neighbors.
Speaker 2:And do we have some of them that struggle with a lot of trash and litter, of course, because there's not trash that runs for them. They also can't burn trash in a burn barrel because then it's called in and that's not allowed, and so there are. But then there are also times where we view something as their trash and we don't realize they're collecting plastic, they're collecting aluminum cans to turn in for money, they are trying to collect bike parts, because they truly work on bikes and that is their vocation for right now. There's just a lot of things where the way we view things and we're very quick to deem it as trash is really sometimes a livelihood for someone, or also how that person is functioning, because there really are not options. Like you and I have Right and people can be incredibly creative.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, Very. With the things that they have to build, things that they need like shelter and that kind of thing. I'm always kind of startled by how creative people can be and what people can build out of what I would consider nothing. So it's yes, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2:One of the things that sticks out to me about that is when I first started this in 21, it was one of the very first times I went out to visit some of the encampments, and so when we arrive, you know we're always saying who we are, can we come in those kinds of things? And I noticed this pile of five gallon buckets. And when I say a pile, it was a pile, probably 10, 15. And two gentlemen come out and were kind of leery because they hadn't met me, and so the street reach person that I was with introduces who I am. She's coming around to meet people and they went over to that five-gallon bucket pile, took out two five-gallon buckets for me and the other person to sit on. That's their seats.
Speaker 2:And so the next thing I know all four of us are sitting on these five-gallon buckets and I mentioned something about it and one of the gentlemen said well, I wouldn't expect you to sit on the ground and I thought, like they're using, like they're doing that as a way to respect me, to be courteous, yes, and so there's complaints of people that are driving over the Kansas bridge because they see a whole stack of five gallon buckets. But I'm like that's their way, that also when they're meeting and stuff, and they're talking and eating and stuff, like they're sitting on these buckets. So, anyways, definitely something to think of in the area of homelessness. But also declutter, clutter is not good for any of us, I know.
Speaker 1:It's already past spring cleaning. Is it summer cleaning?
Speaker 3:I know I need to do one every season, I do too.
Speaker 2:The next one. I've never had what? What? It's not my go-to. Chinese it is, but not orange chicken. So today's orange chicken day Well, apparently we know what we're going to have lunch. I love sweet and sour chicken, I love the shrimps, all of that options, but I've never had orange chicken. It's not my go-to.
Speaker 3:Well, if you've never had it, how would you know?
Speaker 2:Well, okay, so I look at it and it looks really sticky, and it looks sticky and then they kind of stick together, and so then I'm like, did they really get cooked right? And so then I'm in my head and it's really sensory, by looks and what I feel, like it's going to taste like, so I don't do it, josh.
Speaker 1:We have a goal now, so it's a blind taste test.
Speaker 3:It's a blind taste test.
Speaker 1:We'll blindfold her and give her some orange chicken, exactly.
Speaker 2:But we want to give it its due right Because it is Orange Chicken Day and so a lot of people like that, and I don't want to discriminate. If you love the orange chicken, please know this is your day.
Speaker 1:There you go, go get some orange chicken.
Speaker 2:That's right, I just haven't yet. Next National, I Love Horses Day, I do, why, why?
Speaker 3:do you love horses? I grew up with horses. Yeah, I love horses. They're powerful and they can run really fast.
Speaker 1:They're cool animals.
Speaker 3:They're very cool animals. They're very cool, they're powerful and they're beautiful. Yeah, they're really beautiful. I've had every size horse as I was growing up, right, because you grow up on a farm and when you're little you want to do what dad and your brothers are doing, but your horse can't be quite as big, right? So I've had every size of horse. Oh, I love it.
Speaker 2:I know I do too. I enjoy even just watching horses. I feel like I don't know, especially if I'm in prayer or going through something.
Speaker 3:It's almost like God can always use whether it's a tamed horse, a wild horse, all of that to just teach us stuff, don't you remember I know that is like one of my favorite things we had this opportunity at a conference to see somebody train a horse, or a break Break isn't the right word, I'm just going to use train, because the horse was not broken, but it was brought into compliance and it was amazing. And the gentleman that was doing this was talking about how we are just like those unbroke cults, you know, and that God has to just continuously come after us to help us understand what our purpose is and how to really be in alignment so that we can do what he needs us to do.
Speaker 2:I just loved it and I love how he tied in that the behavior of the cult changes when the trust is earned, yes, and which we can look at. You know, part of the sanctification process is not just becoming more like the Lord, it's also learning truly who his character is to trust him who he is.
Speaker 2:Yes, but then I think Miriam and I both walked away from that experience going. You know what? What are we doing as leaders to also earn the trust, whether it's of our staff members, or how do we then model that so that people that are in direct service with those that we're serving, how are they relentlessly pursuing people that we serve to earn their trust too? So it was beautiful. It was beautiful. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw this.
Speaker 1:Yeah so we're all fans of horses, we love horses, so that's incredible there was an honorary mention that I didn't put on here but it didn't quite make the list, but it's also national, uh, gummy worm day national I love. I know that's why I was like I feel like I need to throw that in, because I was like I know miriam loves some love, some gummy bears you put orange chicken and you didn't put gum, because I like oh so it's just all about you, Josh.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean I make the list, so I have the power, but I just figured I'd throw that in there.
Speaker 2:I love that. Well, we do these because it is important to not only just live in only the area of homelessness right, and everything that we do day in and day out. That we do day in and day out Because, even though this is ministry and even though we get to see God transform lives and we get to see why our own lives have been transformed or in the process of transforming because he's using us, that's all beautiful, but it's also hard and it's challenging. And so it is neat to one just be able to laugh about silly things and there's nothing wrong with that but to also just realize there's just other things happening outside of this too and how God works all of that out. So our guest today we've had Mick Ballinger on here before. Mick is our director of men's services over at our main shelter. Mick, welcome back.
Speaker 4:Thank you.
Speaker 2:It obviously isn't too bad because you keep coming back, right so god calls us a few different things mick falls under the voluntold, that's exactly right
Speaker 2:so if you know mick um, I just like to think of mick as um a quiet soldier, um. And so when I think of Mick, mick is poised, mick is disciplined. But Mick is also a form of strength that is dependable and that is not easily rocked of any kind of group. He does not like to be in front of a microphone Um, he just wants to show up every day and quietly but strongly serve and lead Um. But I keep putting him on this microphone because I love hearing his heart Um and I also love how he is so transparent at his own perception that had to change um, how he realizes he is a work in progress with the Lord, and that's why I think so many men are wild coats but then are tamed and are structured because of Mick's leadership and his guys. So welcome back Mick. And we have someone, not necessarily new to TRM but new to the microphone, and that is Mr Billy Brown. Welcome, billy.
Speaker 6:Thank you, glad to be here.
Speaker 2:Yes, we're excited to have Billy. Billy wears many hats here at the Rescue Mission, as does a lot of men at the front desk. I say this all the time that our Hope Center front desk workers and our men's shelter front desk workers they have to be mom and dad and counselor and police and the doctor and the nurse and the bodyguards and the therapist they wear a lot of hats and they do that because we have a lot of people hundreds each day that walk through our doors and we have to find the balance of compassion and empathy and seeing people the way the Lord does and balance that with safety and logistics and structure and accountability. And that is not an easy job but it is a job that is done well by Billy. So, Billy, we are so glad to have you on here, Excited to have you. Billy, will you just talk to us a little bit, just kind of, about your life, your upbringing, privileges, you had struggles, you had anything like that, just so that the listeners kind of get a feel of who we're talking to.
Speaker 6:Well, I was born in 1976. I was born in Kansas City. Kansas Moved to a small farm community, hoskalissa, in 1980. And everything I grew up there went to school in Jefferson County. Come from a broken home, you know my mom, and dad divorced when I was pretty young and everything like that.
Speaker 6:So it kind of started at that age with some mental health issues, dealing with abandonment issues and stuff like that and being in a small community like that, it was kind of tough trying to find a place to fit in and by the time I hit high school I finally found a place I fit in. It was with the wrong crowd and everything, and throughout years it progressed. I let all this stuff just build up and build up and everything. But my dad was in the law enforcement so I knew both sides of the law. I knew the bad and I knew the good. I knew right from wrong and everything like that.
Speaker 6:As far as my religious upbringing, I was raised in a Catholic family. I was baptized Catholic when I was younger and I just didn't believe in it because I felt like I was forced into it. I felt like religion was something that I should be able to experience on my own and it had come from the old German class where everything I did I mean no matter what I did I was going to hell is what I was told and everything. So it was just that constant battle in my head, you know always. And when I found out that, you know, I found ways to numb that pain block that image with alcohol and drugs and everything I started using when I was about 16.
Speaker 2:And what were you using?
Speaker 6:I started out drinking just like in high school with the people on the weekends and everything and eventually I got introduced to marijuana and it led to harder drugs like cocaine and methamphetamines and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:And who were you living with at that time?
Speaker 6:I was staying with my dad and my grandparents at the moment because my dad had diabetes and he came down sick. And I think one day back in 1993, I got called to the hospital after coming home from school. My dad was in the hospital because he had a diabetic episode. He was in a coma. I walked into the hospital and I swear to that day that that was the day that my life changed, Because I constantly—my dad came home. He came out of it. I watched him die on a slowly basis, knowing I couldn't do anything about it. So I'd already lost my mom, didn't know where she was and I'm losing my dad, you know. So I had to grow up real fast. I had to be. You know, I didn't get to be the normal child that I was, you know, get to have friends and stuff, so I had to.
Speaker 2:So were you like a junior in high school uh, I was.
Speaker 6:But yeah, I just started my junior year and everything and, uh, things are going rough at home. So I dropped out um high school, my uh senior year and everything, and started taking job at a local grocery store in Perry Kansas, you know, just trying to help that family out, like every normal son would want to do, and stuff like that. But so much anger, so much hate towards God because I lost my mom, you know, she left my dad's dying. I started turning my back on the Lord, you know. I felt like he just he hated me, you know, to the point that I was abandoning, you know, and started finding, started turning to other things for solutions, answers and stuff like that, you know, dabbled with darker you know dark things you know, Wouldn't believe in God at all.
Speaker 6:Been an addict for about 30 some years, you know well. Actually, yeah, 35 years to be honest with you. It's been a rough life. I mean you know ups and downs and things that I mean the morals that I went against and stuff like that against. You know ups and downs and things that I mean the morals that I went against and stuff like that against. You know lived on the streets. You know I've done everything from be the bottom I mean dealing dope to being the junkie and everything.
Speaker 6:And you know I've been in and out of treatments, been to 30-some treatments in my life, been in and out of the mental health institutions and everything. And you know in and out of incarceration, jails, prisons, nothing seemed to work, can I?
Speaker 2:stop you right there. I want to ask you something and I'm going to be a little sarcastic because I hear this all the time, but a lot of this time that you were kind of in and out of the struggles, in and out of the addiction, those kinds of things, would that have just been fixed with the job?
Speaker 6:No.
Speaker 2:Because some of it you worked. Right, you were working. Did that take away? So just being focused and going to work, get a job, that helped you feel less abandoned, that helped you feel all of those things right.
Speaker 6:Kind of I mean I was part of something, but still there was that void inside that I was missing. I was trying to feel I mean I just couldn't find acceptance. Sure, no matter what I tried, I couldn't find the acceptance that I seek.
Speaker 2:So employment is definitely something that will help people along the way of the journey, but struggles and deep rooted hurt and isolation and struggles I mean just getting a job doesn't fix it.
Speaker 6:No, I think I believe it's. You know, a job's a job, A career is a career. You gotta have something that you enjoy. Doing.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 6:You know, and like I said, I was a job jumper, I mean bouncing job to job. I mean it was just put money in my pocket to support my habits, stuff like that.
Speaker 2:But you know um would would your all of these habits have been fixed if you just had a house?
Speaker 2:No because I hear that too. Right, and respectfully, I say this to the listeners because I do understand if people are not kind of educated in this area. I do see where the common questions. The two things I get is one well, if they just get a job, then they wouldn't be a bum. Or they wouldn't be this, I hear that. Or two well, if they would just get housed like they just need to be in housing.
Speaker 2:And the message I'm trying to say is housing is good, yes. Employment is good, yes. But if we don't truly help people, heal is good, yes, but if we don't truly help people heal whether that is in the mind, in the heart sometimes it's physical ailments that have caused this kind of the spiral, and sometimes it's a combination If we don't truly help, then what we're doing is we're putting a bandaid on a broken arm or we're telling somebody to do chemo for a headache. It doesn't make sense, and so that's why I really want listeners to hear that you've been in the midst of this addiction, you've been in the midst of kind of issues that come from broken families, all of these things. But yet those things need one, the Lord, and two need a village and need other things. It can't just be fixed with housing and it can't just be fixed with employment.
Speaker 6:No, you know, for me, I mean trauma is trauma and, um, you know you have to face that trauma and you have to find somebody that can understand and relate to that trauma with you. You know, uh, the biggest part of working here, like at TRM, you know, for me it's the people that I see out on the street, just going up to them and saying, hey, how's your day going? Acknowledging them, you know. You know how much that would have made me. You know, if somebody would acknowledge me more in life, earlier in my addiction, I probably would have maybe looked at things different.
Speaker 6:Probably would have maybe looked at things different. But when everybody turns their back on you, you know, because they don't understand, you know it's like they just look at it as you're a loss. You know You're not a loss, you know. I mean, I don't know. I've been filled with so much in my head because I've been told throughout life that I was no good. I was no good, I wouldn't amount to nothing and stuff like that, and to hear that over and over and have it embedded in my thoughts and stuff like that, it's just, you know. But when somebody actually comes up and tells me that they love me or that they listen, and stuff like, that it's hard for me to trust anybody.
Speaker 6:It's just is this an act or what. There's a saying. I'm so used to everything going bad that sometimes, when something goes good, it feels like a setup.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're waiting for the next shoe to drop or something, yeah, yeah. So, billy, you have over three decades of addiction, even more decades than that of loss, like really not this two-parent home and things like that. Talk to me about how that led to the incident, that you now believe in miracles.
Speaker 6:Well, I was. It was July of well matter of fact, first miracle was April 6, 2018. I thought I was at rock bottom. I had walked in. I was in Lawrence, I walked, picked a busy intersection, walked out in front of traffic and I broke my neck and I was lifelighted to KU Med.
Speaker 2:Were you hit by a vehicle?
Speaker 6:Yeah, I broke my neck.
Speaker 2:Ran over Yep. Okay, and this was literally just seven years ago.
Speaker 6:Yep, okay, and you know I woke up. I've told NICU that I was revived twice. I woke up there in KU Med and you know I thought at that point that was a change in my life. It was.
Speaker 2:How long did you stay in KU Med?
Speaker 6:I was in there for about four and a half months. I had to go through rehabilitation and everything.
Speaker 2:But that sorry to interrupt you one more time and that, in your mind, was a suicide attempt, right Like you. Yeah, you couldn't do it anymore and you were done with life, believing all of this, that you didn't have value, those kinds of things, right. And so you were like this is how I'm going to end this, and then what?
Speaker 6:It didn't. You know, it didn't work because I woke up in ICU with a couple of people that I went to church with up in Kansas City, in the ICU room looking over me and I was like, well, maybe, maybe there is something going on here. Maybe, God does have a plan for me.
Speaker 2:So do you remember what you thought when you started coming to and waking up? Like what did you? Do you remember that you tried to kill yourself?
Speaker 6:I remember seeing the truck coming, remember that you tried to kill yourself. I remember seeing the truck coming, okay, but from 11 PM to 3 PM, I don't remember nothing. I just remember being at peace, feeling no pain, nothing at all. Okay, and that's and then 3. Pm from on. That's when the pain started again and all the misery and everything started coming back and stuff and uh, but I had people coming from church to visit me and stuff like that and what'd you think about that? It was. It showed me that people cared.
Speaker 6:And like I said, I started taking recovery again seriously and uh, you know, I was like okay, well, billy, you can do this, and my wife was up there and with me in the hospital and stuff like that.
Speaker 6:And we, you know, after the four months of rehabilitation, got out and everything, and I had been on pain medication for about seven years, just the same as doing all this, but at the same time I was going to church, I started getting things to come back in life, starting to feel good about myself, and then some events took place in my life. I lost some people and started thinking God's turning his back on me again and Billy forgot. You know, I was finding a way to go back to my addiction, because my addiction was calling me, because I felt that the pain medication was a big part of it.
Speaker 2:Talk to me about the pain medication.
Speaker 6:I was on hydrocodones and oxycodones for about seven years because of the nerve damage and the pain with the broken neck and everything. Um, the doctors pulled me off of a cold turkey, so I started going out seeking other things and stuff like that. But back to your question, where I thought the biggest miracle was would have been july of 2023, when, um, I'd got arrested febru February 3rd of 2023 for possession or distribution of methamphetamines. Things started going downhill from there and I found myself on some railroad tracks in North Lawrence, completely hopeless, ready to commit suicide. I was on Facebook. I posted it live on Facebook. They came and I was just crying my eyes out, praying to God please help me, please help me.
Speaker 6:Well, my message got delivered, it got publicly delivered and it got shot out more than I thought. And the next thing, you know, they shut the train tracks down. Police show up. They took me to a mental health institution. Billy, we're not taking you to jail. Actually, I've been battling this case for two years. It's finally coming to terms, but that's where this journey started. You know, um, back up a little bit. I always knew god was there, because every now and then I'd get this little presence saying like you know, I'm here, but I'm just waiting for you to cry out, and that's you know, you know, he says he let me play around, he let me dabble you know.
Speaker 2:But why do you think he does that?
Speaker 6:because he's a mean god no, I think he wanted me to learn, you know. I mean, I had to learn, you know, but but I knew he was always there and he was there. And then this last time, you know he, he answered, he sent the police. They come and got me. They took me to, uh, burton ash and lawrence burton ash took me from burton ash to stormont west. Um, I got into treatment. Um, it was tough. The withdrawals really was. I mean, I was hurting so bad. I just wanted to, um, and and and I was like no, I can't. And anyways, I got, I got out of treatment.
Speaker 6:I came here for a while. I started. I was working at Arby's. Nick was my first uh case manager and, um, I'd been here for maybe two weeks and I come in and told him I said, well, I got accepted into an Oxford house. You know I'm moving out. So I went to Oxford. I was there for almost six months and I lost my job. I got another job, but they wouldn't wait the two weeks for me to get my rent up and everything. So I got voted out and I came back. Well, I came back here to TRM and I didn't really want to because I looked at it as the pit is what I called it and everything and it was like I came in, had a few jobs?
Speaker 2:Why does it feel when you're walking? Because I've not walked those shoes, billy, I've never had to come to our doors and say I need to be a guest. I try to immerse myself as the CEO as much as possible, to to have empathy and to understand, um, but I've never done it. So talk to me about what does it feel like to be that and to feel like you're in the pit.
Speaker 6:It hurts when you have to admit defeat and you have to come in and ask for help, especially when you've been here before and you know, and you you've burned some bridges and stuff like that, and you're coming back asking for help.
Speaker 2:You know I mean because we hold people accountable. Right, there's rules. In case you haven't heard, you might be the one and only person that's never heard about TRM's rules, because it's normally the other. Y'all have so many rules. That's why people don't come, but we do right. We have stuff and not everybody is ready for healing yet.
Speaker 6:No.
Speaker 2:And sometimes people end up back with us because it's not just like everybody can one day magically heal everything that's ever happened and they can just spin it Right.
Speaker 6:Because I've heard so many stories. You know, people come in and they say well, I think I'm at my bottom, I'm ready for this and I'm sorry. I'll look at him. I say, well, the hand's always here, you know, I mean we're right. We're willing to help you. But sometimes you got to be blunt with them and say, hey, I don't think you're ready, I can still see a little game left in you. You know, for me it was being completely spiritually broken inside.
Speaker 6:You know God, I was broken to the point that there was nothing left. And you see it when people come in the doors. You see, each time they come in you look in their eyes and you see more pain, more misery and you know. And you just keep planting that seed and pray that. You know, eventually it takes one day and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Billy, how do you that? That's not easy.
Speaker 6:No.
Speaker 2:I have seen the look of desperation, yet still met with deceitfulness that people carry in and your heart breaks for both right.
Speaker 2:Both right because you see, you see the the choices being made right that are, that are deceitful and that aren't okay, that require the accountability and sometimes require us saying you can not be a guest. But then you also see, like the desperation in their eyes I mean, sometimes the eyes are even physically darker, like it's. It's different, and so you understand the kind of the captivity that they're in and and all of that. How well, I'm just gonna say it like how do you do this job? Not the why, because we're already hearing some of that, but how, how, how do you find that balance of telling people we're not going to do that nonsense? How do you also have tough conversations where it's tough love? How do you know when they are ready? And and we've got to wrap that in compassion how in the world do you do your job?
Speaker 6:Well, for me I think I told you guys this before For me it's like sometimes I feel like I'm trapped in a war zone. It's like I'm in recovery and I got my recovery over here, but at the same time I'm in the middle of this, and the reason I say this is because there's a saying God pulls us out to put us back in.
Speaker 6:And that's to pull people out that are still, you know, to help them recover. But the thing is for me is I see a lot of people in the community and the people that come into the mission that I used to run with, just as much as I see people at meetings and stuff like that that are in recovery, you know, and, like I said, being in that war zone it gives me that opportunity to show these people that there is a better way of life, there is a chance. But back to your question is how do I handle the, the this? You know the that? Sometimes it hurts to sit there and know that these people aren't serious and they want to be, you know, manipulate, play a game and stuff like that yeah.
Speaker 6:But at the same time, does that mean that? You know, the biggest thing for me was asking God to allow me to see them as he sees them?
Speaker 6:Yes, you know because I can't be judgmental. You know Because the biggest thing for me, I had to learn humility. I mean I was always humble in my addiction and stuff like that, but I didn't know anything about humility. I knew a lot about humiliation but being here at TRM and working with TRM I have learned humility quite a bit, because I see on a daily basis what I used to be like and I know that I don't want to return to that and I want to try to help these people by showing them that you know there is a better way of life and that there is hope. You know God is he, you know, just like a father. You know, I mean we got to be punished. You know we have to have some sort of accountability, you know.
Speaker 6:But he's not going to give up on us. You know it's hard to believe. I will admit that. It's hard to accept. It's hard to believe, I will admit that it's hard to accept, but once you do accept it and once you do realize that he won't give up on you, then that journey can begin, but, like a lot of the people, for me and a lot of them out here too, is dealing with mental illnesses. If you can't get the mental illness under control, how can? You get the addiction under control?
Speaker 6:I wish there was. Each situation is different because it's how you word things to people. You got to be very careful in how you talk to people because one word can trigger something and set a whole. It can pop off in a minute and everything. So you got to be very careful.
Speaker 6:So I think the biggest part of it is is listening to the people, understanding the people and understanding the situation and trying to look back at your life and see how you can relate with that person you know, and once you can find common ground with that person, then you can have a conversation with that person and you know it's throwing suggestions out there to them and everything like that, and you know, trying to convince them to be open minded, not trying to force it down them, and stuff like that. You know, because the biggest thing is, nobody likes to be forced into the situation you know.
Speaker 2:And especially if it's not love and truthfulness to on the other side of the enforcing right, it doesn't feel good. No, um, how long have you been at TRM as a guest?
Speaker 6:I came back in February of 2024. Um, and I started working for TRM and 11, 11 and one of 2024.
Speaker 2:Okay, so talk to me about why does being employed here at TRM, why does that matter to you?
Speaker 6:Because it gives me the opportunity to help people, be of service, and that's one thing about my recovery is being of service to others you know, and being a helping to others. You know, since I started working at TRM, I've accomplished things that I never thought I'd accomplish. Right now I'm going back to school to get my high school diploma. You know, I'm finishing that up, you know talk to him about your GPA. I'm actually maintaining a BI.
Speaker 2:I told him. I said uh, we won't talk about mine. And then I was honest with him and told him. I said one of the most embarrassing things I've had to overcome in my education was I failed Arkansas history had to take it twice in college. Had to pay for it twice.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 2:So I told him. I said I'm so proud of you for being out of school this long, and then you're doing a better average than what I had.
Speaker 6:Yeah, you know, trm has been a great stepping stone for me.
Speaker 6:I mean it's, it's, it's how I I mean a lot of people look at this. I mean, be honest with you. They look at the mission as the bottom. You know I mean, but at the same time, you know, it's all about how you work it, how you work the program. If you're willing to put in the footwork, then things can grateful, things can happen and, like I said, I've accomplished things that I never thought I'd accomplish. You know, going back to school, you know, matter of fact, this is actually one of the longest jobs I've held in a long time. You know it's allowed me to help people. I mean I've got. You know, I mean, within the first six months that I've been here, I experienced some pretty intense episodes. I got to help talk a guy off the bridge off the Kansas.
Speaker 6:Avenue bridge back here you know I understand where he was coming from. I mean, I've been exactly where he was. No hope, nobody cares, or nothing like that. And just to get him to come down and talk to me and get him no hope, nobody cares, or nothing like that, and just to get him to come down and talk to me and get him. You know, to this day I still pray. Maybe I'll run into him at a meeting or something like that you know, but you know things like that.
Speaker 6:You know, for me a lot of people think blessings is money, getting their wife, you know, getting their family back. Whatever Blessing is just that warm feeling in your heart.
Speaker 3:You, you know anytime you can make somebody smile or you're uplifting and stuff like that you know, that's a blessing to me and you know, you know that the lord is helping right, he's shining through you right I think that's what's so beautiful on those things. Just like that. You know it isn't tangible, it's just something where you know the lord has used you to help someone else.
Speaker 6:And how incredible that's like everybody used to tell me. You know, god won't put too much on your plate that you can't have, or God gives his toughest battles to his toughest soldiers. You know, and I look at things back in life and I was like, well, I must be one tough soldier because of what I've been through. But, you know, I've walked through, I've walked through, walked through the darkness to come back to the light. And I, you know, and and but if walk through the darkness to come back to the light. But if somebody would ask me about my addiction and about where I'm at today, my addiction, that monster inside me, is like cancer. It's in remission. It can be awoken at any time. Any bad trigger or something like that. But as long as I keep my faith in God, I can keep, you know, and and put my trust in him and everything like that. I know I have a chance. Yes, you know.
Speaker 2:For sure, and you've proven it. The Lord is standing by you, mick, as you and you know so much more about Billy than what I even do, and I know a lot. I respect Billy, I love Billy, I'm thankful for Billy, but I know there's just a different level of that from you, with him directly reporting to you and being a part of your team. What does one Billy mean to you? And two, what does having someone like Billy mean to this team?
Speaker 4:Knowing Billy, like I do, Like you said, when he first came in I was his case manager. He was here for a couple of weeks and gone when he came back. I was actually the assistant director at that time and, you know, kind of reestablished, tried to reestablish that rapport and that trust with him again. Didn't know who Billy knew from his background, but we know a lot of the people Just getting to know Billy again.
Speaker 2:But why did that matter to you? To get rapport with him and to build trust back. Why does that matter to you?
Speaker 4:Because in order to help someone, you've got to have the rapport with them. I can go down the street and say, hey, you need something to eat, right, I don't care what you drive, I don't care what you wear, it's just helping somebody. Yeah, you know, as they come through the door, you can see their struggles, as you mentioned, billy mentioned. You can see it in their face, you can see it in their characteristic when they come through the door. Yeah, and you can see it in their face. You can see it in their characteristic when they come through the door.
Speaker 4:When I first started here, I used to look at everybody and go man, it's just like zombies walking around, you know. But so when I was in corrections, we always said we want to rehabilitate everybody, rehabilitate them. Well, if they've never been habilitated before, how can you rehabilitate them? Yes, you know so as they come through the door and you never know the backgrounds or the mental health or the addiction, the depths they've been in, where they've come from or brought themselves out of. So you can always see hurt in their eyes. So to me it's important to just invest in someone. You're going to get out of them what you invest in them. Right, we're going to get out of Jesus what we invest in Jesus, right? So when I've seen Billy come back, it's like, okay, this is a familiar face, I know he's worked hard.
Speaker 4:I don't know all his struggles, but it doesn't matter his struggles, those aren't my understanding. Those are God's understanding. Yes, I'm just here as a missionary for Jesus to do what I can to help his people. So when I see a familiar face come back in, let's try to build that rapport again. Let's acknowledge them. I try to tell the team all the time in our meetings. Everybody wants to be acknowledged, even if it's to say hey, how you doing, billy, how's it going, how's your day going? They can be receptive or not be receptive, but at least I've acknowledged them. Yes, at least somebody has seen them. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And they know they're seen. Yeah, you know. So seeing the film of your faces come back in Billy, I say all these guys hold a huge part of my heart. Uh-huh, they do.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh yep why cry all the time?
Speaker 4:yeah, because it's you know. We all look at ourselves as burdens on somebody else. But we're not, we're not. If we're all the same, then what would life be like?
Speaker 3:it'd be pretty boring it would be.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So the humor of God, the different challenges, whatever it may be. Some challenges are heartbeats, yeah, you know, but the heartbeats that were created by the same God that created me and we're all equal. It's the choices that some have made, right, but I want to be on the other side of that fence so when they do come through that gate, they do come through that door, they can see the light of Jesus.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, let me get myself together now. You know I I know that sometimes it sounds mushy and there are tears that are shed, and I think it is because it is such a rawness of what we do and we try to communicate that as much as possible. But it's also something that's so different when you're experiencing it. Staff here at TRM, we are not perfect. We are walking our own journeys. Some can relate with Billy's, some can relate to mine, some can relate to Mick's or Miriam's or Josh. It's not really about the story. It's about the importance of us, as staff members, being vulnerable with our own story, to help other people latch on to that and be able to help them heal on their own story, learn things about their own story so that, like Billy mentioned, we go back into the war zone to pull people out. I think that is a beautiful yet heart wrenching example of what we do here, and so when we go to talk about each other, that's why we get the lump in our throats, because I wish I could say that people just show up at our doors they say Hi, I'm LaManda, I'm ready for healing, I'll do anything that you asked me to do. Here is all of the concerns I have and I will have them fixed in 60 days.
Speaker 2:That is not the case, and so what we get to do at TRM is some of the 68 that God entrusts to constantly speak of his redemption. That's incredible. The other side of it is sometimes we're like God, you ready to put somebody else as one of the 68? Because I'm tired and because this is hard, and am I doing it wrong? Or you hear of somebody who passes away or gets injured or overdoses, like all of these different things. You see people who the system is failing because it is so hard to reacclimate to all of the systems in our society and so it is hard. So if you look at our team and Mick did a great job talking about this we are so close one because we have to be, two because we get to be, and so that's how I view TRM as well. That's why I'm protective of TRM, that's why I advocate for TRM and we'll continue to do so. It's just incredible.
Speaker 3:And you know, Amanda, I think the.
Speaker 3:Thing that is always in the forefront, or needs to always be in the forefront of my mind, if it sometimes slips away is, you know, as people come back to us like I may not have the same struggles that Billy has or that Billy has had, and yet I have things that the Lord, I need to go to the Lord with as well, right, I need to go to the Lord with as well, right.
Speaker 3:So every time I welcome Billy back, I have to be remembering that the Lord is welcoming me back with whatever I might have done, and my things may not be as obvious or as visible or as public as what some of the folks do that come back to us over and over, but to God it's all the same. And so who would I be, or who would any of us at TRM be, not to welcome people back for another opportunity to be with the Lord? Right, to potentially see themselves in their lives in a different way, because I know I am granted that every single day from the Lord. So I have a responsibility to talk that person off the bridge, right, because that's what the Lord has done, right. So I think it is this when I think about my time here at TRM. I am also always thinking that I have received so much more by being an employee here than I have been able to give.
Speaker 2:Well said, well said. You know. I don't know if right now, you are listening to this and you are resonating with the early Billy, the Billy that felt abandoned. The Billy that. The Billy that felt abandoned. The Billy that didn't have two parents to raise him. The Billy who was rebellious because religion hurt it didn't, it wasn't helping, it didn't feel good, it felt lost. I don't know if you are right now resonating with the Billy who said I'm done twice and wanted to take his life. I don't know if you are listening to this and you're contemplating it.
Speaker 2:And suicide does not discriminate. Suicidal thoughts can happen to somebody in a boardroom. Suicide thoughts can happen to someone who's attending every church service, and suicide can be thoughts of somebody who is experiencing homelessness, attempting to jump off the Kansas Bridge. If you are listening right now and you you resonate with part of Billy's story, please know that you too, with the power of the Lord, have the ability to resonate with Billy's story now, and that it is not always beautiful, it is not always easy. There is still a monster inside of him that is being spiritually battled with the Lord, and you too can have that battle because you are worth it. And our creator sent his son to die on the cross for you so that you can have an eternity with him and be transformed. So please know that, whatever struggle you are having, regardless of your socioeconomic status, know that whatever struggle you are having, regardless of your socioeconomic status, regardless of your experiencing homelessness or not, you might feel lost, but you are not a loss, and those are two very different things.
Speaker 2:And so, billy, thank you for being here, mick, thank you for being here, thank you for the work that you do. I am deeply sorry for the challenges that you face in your roles. It is definitely a beautiful mess and I know the load is heavy and has been pretty much all year. We jokingly say and seriously say we fit about five years worth of challenges in the first seven months of 2025. But please know that the work that you do, one doesn't go unnoticed by me. It doesn't go unnoticed by your teams but, most importantly, the Lord sees the war zone that you're in every day and it's kind of like Daniel. You know there were more man in the fire than the one, and that's how it is every day.
Speaker 2:So if you are a listener, please know that, if you are in a season where you are feeling success and you are feeling healing and redeeming and all of that that, billy is. Please make sure you're working for the Lord and that you're going back in the pits and you're pulling people out. If you're feeling like you're in the pit right now, please know you're not alone. You're not the only one. That's in a pit Position doesn't discriminate. All of those things we have all's in a pit Position doesn't discriminate. All of those things we have all been in a pit, are in a pit, are going to go in a pit. But what is incredible is there's places like the Topeka Rescue Mission and many other places around here that are showing you your life can be transformed with Christ and you are made by the creator for an extremely important purpose and you are an important person. Have a blessed day. Thank you for listening to our community, our mission.