Money Minded

#116 Helen and Chace | How to navigate the 'messy middle' part of life

• Terry Condon

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In this episode, Terry welcomes back Helen and Chase, who share their evolution since their last appearance in 2022. They discuss their struggles with initial investment property failure and how they've grown, both career-wise and financially, over the past few years. Helen and Chase dive into their ventures in real estate, Bitcoin, career shifts, and their new venture. The conversation highlights the importance of continuous learning and striving to create meaningful impact while juggling family and financial responsibilities.

00:00 Introduction and preview 
07:10 Big Changes Since 2022
14:02 Exploring Cryptocurrency Investments
19:03 Career Transitions and Personal Growth
30:09 Navigating Career Decisions and Trade-offs
31:20 The Addictive Nature of Career Gains
32:19 Realizations About Work-Life Balance
33:52 Reflections on Career Choices and Regrets
34:54 Starting a New Chapter: Closer to Home
36:06 The Journey to Reignite Passion
36:42 Rediscovering Chace's first profession
38:16 Building a Business Together
40:44 The Importance of Culture and Team Dynamics
42:55 Creating a Rewarding Client Experience
50:50 Challenges and Strategies in Business
55:30 Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs
01:03:15 Future Goals and Community Engagement
01:05:14 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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Chace & Helen:

we dipped our toe in the investment property previously and we failed miserably. we literally didn't have any education Is this going to be different? How is it going to be different this time around? It was a big step to take on that much extra debt all in one hit we were toying with the idea around shifts in career for both of us at the same time When we moved down to Geelong jumped into a salaried position. I'd always been curious as a subcontractor what it was like to get a same pay packet every fortnight. jumped on the, you know, the government gravy train at the end of the day, it wasn't filling my cup despite all the flexible arrangements and, consistent salary, like, I wasn't really making a difference and I was just part of the churn and burn. I knew actually more accurately what it would take for me to be successful in a firm like that. I was seeing the senior managers literally working to 10 o'clock every night and saying they're improving the culture around balance and getting the culture right. And I need to, to seriously ask and ask with Chase and have conversations about what that would mean for our family I think we actually also recognize that there was an opportunity for us to come together as a team again. And this was a particularly unique opportunity where if we were able to combine our skills to have a bigger impact on the people in the communities we serve. Why wouldn't we do that? I could live with that if I just took the easy option for the rest of my career. We now think very differently about the value of our time and where we want to invest it just was a bit of a conversation starter and, and a chance for us to go, actually, are we at a very different point and do we hold some very different beliefs now around what it means to own a business? And what that looks like and what that could do for us.

Terry:

How do you keep moving towards your vision for the future when life's full? Kids are all encompassing, the bills keep coming, and there's no set path. The couple you're about to hear from are an epic example of how you can move through that messy middle part of change. Helen and Chase first came on the show a couple years back in 2022, and when they came on we talked about how they got serious about their money, and how they started to come together around getting beyond the foundation level of things, getting past just saving and having some savings, to starting to get invested, starting to make bigger decisions, starting to educate themselves. And this is an awesome example of what it looks like to actually see that played out over time and see where it can take you. Because the decisions they made them have really paved the way for the choices they have now and the choices they've been able to execute throughout this part of life. This is the peak spending period. they had their second kid, finished uni, took on different jobs, took on high levels of management responsibility, pursued different career paths. And it's just a really great example of what it looks like to stick to it. Even when you don't know what it, that you're sticking to, works for you. time. You just know you're searching for something. You've got a real sense of what it should feel like, what it should look like in the future, but the pathways aren't always obvious. This conversation you're about to hear is a really awesome one. Awesome open example of what it looks like to work through that uncertainty, to do it together as a team, to start to make bigger decisions with savings, investments, debt, and really what this can open up for you over time. Because these guys have given themselves permission to back themselves, back each other, to Different career risks, learn more about themselves, really understand where and how they fit, and ultimately what they want to do with the limited time they have here and the contribution they want to make. And where it ends up here is how to start to craft your own career around the world. Who you want to be, what you want to do and the choices you want to have with that time as well, to make it work for you. So if you're feeling really stuck in that messy middle part of change and you're going after something you really want, or you don't really know what it is that you want, you know it's just not what you're doing, and you want to start making moves in a new direction, you need to listen to this conversation, because it's a really inspiring example of what this can look like. Particularly in this part of life. I think a lot of people just resign themselves to the fact that it's like, Oh, this is the part we just kind of knuckle down and, you know, grind it out. You absolutely don't have to. You have choices. And if you start to get serious about how you're allocating time, talent, money, you can see what this can do for you over time. And this is a five year journey for these guys. And some of the things they've been able to do and things they're opening up for themselves now and things they're creating really is going to change things for their family and for their future as well. So if you're feeling like that right now, and you want to be inspired by a story, an example of people that are in it and will openly tell you the good, the bad, the ugly, and all of it. Then listen to this episode, I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed having this conversation.

Tex:

Welcome back to the Wealth Time Freedom Show. It's your host here, Terry. Lovely to see you again. Lovely to see you again, Helen and Chase. Welcome back.

Chace & Helen:

Hey Tariq. Thanks for having us again. It's awesome to be back. No, it's

Tex:

We've had a few goes at this and it's, uh, it's been my fault. We've, uh, had to move things around and shift things around but everybody's busy at the moment so I appreciate you taking the time out of your schedule.

Chace & Helen:

awesome. Yeah. We were just thinking about how long it actually has been and it has, it's been a couple of years, hasn't it? Sort of time flies.

Tex:

2022, I was thinking to myself the other day, I'm like, that honestly feels like, Not very long ago at

Chace & Helen:

Hmm. Yeah.

Tex:

And where, where did the time go? What's happened? Have I done anything in that period of time?

Chace & Helen:

It's been a while. Yeah,

Tex:

It's crazy, isn't it?

Chace & Helen:

and we would definitely, uh, we were in the depths of sleep deprivation now, and I think back, we were just trying to make them,

Tex:

Oh, Lonnie was young

Chace & Helen:

yeah, one day at a time, and every time we tried to catch up, I remember kids screaming and interrupting us non stop, and I just wondered, is that ever going to end? And I can,

Tex:

Yeah.

Chace & Helen:

give the listeners, you know, if you've got young kids out there, I think we're through it, and there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Tex:

Oh, don't speak too soon. We're Lonnie's got a mouth on him now too.

Chace & Helen:

Absolutely.

Tex:

the mic off to you guys last night and it's like, Hey Terry, give me a cuddle. It was so good.

Chace & Helen:

Way past his bedtime and just being a little devil.

Tex:

He was, he was. He's bloody good fun though. I swear he's got the comedic timing of Kevin Hart, your son. He does. He just, I don't know what it is about him, but he's got I just, I don't get it.

Chace & Helen:

I'll

Tex:

got a

Chace & Helen:

take that, hopefully he's a bit taller than Kevin Hart, but it's definitely, the humour comes from you Kevin.

Tex:

run the roast one day and he's gonna, he's gonna host it and you guys are

Chace & Helen:

Yeah. That's good. That's really good. He's like

Tex:

No, but

Chace & Helen:

So

Tex:

to this, so why I wanted to get you guys back on the show. So, like, We've had some discussions with listeners and, and we have had that come to us a few times where it's like, we want to know where folks are at, what's happening. And for the actual, for the folks in our community as well that are involved in the mentorship I think you guys are a really good example of the evolution of things over time as well. There's a really popular misconception, which is like, you know, you put down, you set down the vision and it's a set in stone thing. And like, that's what you do. it's such an evolving process and I think where you guys have got to and what's happening for you now is a really good example of that as you just move in the direction of what you really, really care about. So what I'm really keen to jump into with you guys today is number one. What are the big shifts and changes between 2022 and now, the big stuff you guys have done? You've both gone on different journeys career wise, and then it's like you've come back together. You've got this new venture that's kind of getting off the ground this year, and I'm really keen to dig into that and how that's going and how you've used the skills, the tools that you've learned throughout the process to be able to help this out. So talk us through What's happened between now and 2022? What are the big things that stands out for you guys?

Chace & Helen:

much has happened. I guess one of the big things that's happened, our kids have probably got a bit older and started to sleep a bit better, so, uh, probably our brain fog is not as thick. No, but we, we jumped in and we purchased a property, I think, a couple of months after. After we did the last podcast and if I remember rightly, I don't think we necessarily had intentions even then a few months out to just buy the property. Yeah,

Tex:

Yeah, I remember you guys sort of coming and saying, Hey, we're thinking about doing this. And I was like, where'd this come from? And it was obviously because of Blair and James and other members. And you guys knew them, but it kind of came up and it was an opportunity, wasn't it?

Chace & Helen:

it was, and it was, it was too good to pass up like the, I'm not going to say the stars aligned. It was a bit more of a well thought through decision but it was a, it was a really fast turnaround. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we were pretty lucky, like we had laid the groundwork to be in a position where we could make that type of move and, and it happened in a very short space of time. And you know, just a coincidence that it was probably a couple of what, couple of months before rates. Yeah,

Tex:

But yeah, let's not skip over that fact as well. You know, you put yourself in the position. So there's a few moving parts there. That's the, it's probably the growth of your own first property. And it's also the financial sort of spot you've got yourself too. Is that right?

Chace & Helen:

definitely. Definitely. Yeah. So we looked, we looked at the equity. We had a fair chunk of equity still available to us in the property and we'd learned a lot about investing and we really wanted to take that next step. Like we were thinking, how do, how do we potentially diversify? Is this on our horizon? Is it on our plan? Is it going to get us like one step closer to where we want to go? Hmm. Hmm.

Tex:

And you were already doing, were already investing in the shares and you had the share portfolio growing and you had some debt recycling happening as well. Is that right? Yeah.

Chace & Helen:

Yep, we did.

Tex:

So that discussion, cause that you could just rinse and repeat that and keep doing it. Keep it kind of simple. did that sort of come up and how did you guys talk through that? And why ultimately did you decide, no, we're going to do this? That's

Chace & Helen:

I think it was more the approach to debt and what we thought about debt and how debt can actually be a good thing as historically, you know, maybe from our parents generation, debt was bad, you know, get rid of it whereas, you know, we sort of, you know, got educated through the program and, you know, other resources that made us feel confident that, yeah, it's a move in the right direction, particularly, you know, in property, that, you know, there's some pretty good historical results on making the call and jumping in. Yeah, I think, I think we looked at particularly a little bit about just, just timing wise. Again, we dipped our toe in the investment property previously and we failed miserably. So we had these certain mistakes that we wanted to make sure we learned from if we were to invest again in property and did this lineup. So that was one of the markers that we're like, Is this going to be different? How is it going to be different this time around? So we're not, not falling into the same trap. So making sure that we're feeling comfortable from that perspective and that it actually ticks some of the boxes around being a true investment and an asset. For us. So that was a really important thing. Hmm.

Tex:

What were the big, this is interesting too, I think, because a lot of folks would have that first event, and then they would tell themselves a story from there, which is like, probably doesn't work. It's, it's, uh, you know, it's all a lie. It doesn't double every 10 years, not quite right, but, and like, you sort of create that kind of narrative. It's easy to have that scar tissue. What were the big lessons you guys took out of it? And then how did you use that plus education to be able to have some conviction in this next decision?

Chace & Helen:

I think from our first purchase, we literally didn't have any education. We kind of jumped in, so it was a big change between then and then when we went to purchase another investment property. But, you know, I guess it was the characteristics of what, you know, An investment property might have, you know, having, you know, X amount of bedrooms, a bathroom, a backyard, you know, the condition of the house, whereas our first investment was an apartment that was Off the plan. Off the plan.

Tex:

Classic,

Chace & Helen:

Yeah. It's just like, Even just seeking professional advice. So Kate Bacos, who is a good friend of the podcast she came into the picture and we learned a lot off her. That we then utilized, you know, in years, obviously, and with this property. And we thought, did it tick some of the things that we talked to years ago with her around investing? What's the yield going to be? What's it going to do for us long term though? So the long term potential and how it might actually help us achieve our goals. Is it actually going to get us or speed us up to where we want to go on a, on a global level? That was probably a big thing for us.

Tex:

That actually, that one decision, this is what's interesting too, right? You didn't, you didn't let that kind of stop you. You then bought the next place, but you got help. You got educated, you got advice, you got expertise. That made you a lot of money, right? Next to the loss.

Chace & Helen:

Yes.

Tex:

just, what, what, what's interesting for me is like, your loss probably sets the stage for the gain.

Chace & Helen:

Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Tex:

kind of have to go, what did we get wrong there? What would we do differently if we did it again? You And it's ultimately the growth of this, this next property that's given you guys so many of these options moving forward. So I think that's a really good example of just continuing to learn

Chace & Helen:

Yeah.

Tex:

and not letting, not letting the concept or the idea of failure, to me, the only way to fail is to quit.

Chace & Helen:

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And we were just continuing to remain open to different ideas around what a whole portfolio could look like for us. So, not ruling anything off the table and we weren't, we weren't. Super keen on property. So we will just say that we weren't a hundred percent sold on. We knew it fitted somewhere. It was, so it was a bit of, you know, part art, part science sort of came into it. And we thought, look, now might be a good time now that we've got the equity. We're thinking longer term again, we just had to keep reminding ourselves. It was a big step to take on that much extra debt all in one hit.

Tex:

And then that was the point where you guys started with us just off the back of that decision. and that was the like, we need to really, I think when you take on that, that first kind of big mortgage, that's the period, that next year, two years where you go, where you really feel it. So that's, that's kind

Chace & Helen:

yeah.

Tex:

as well. But I kind of, you can see how much that's made a difference for you now, hasn't

Chace & Helen:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and we're sticking with it. We're sticking with it. But yeah, you talk about a few other moving pieces, like we were toying with the idea around shifts in career for both of us at the same time, and also investing more heavily in crypto and Bitcoin in particular. So that was also sort of coming up and sort of ended up happening for us as well over that last couple of years is more exploring. So when we last caught up, we didn't have any cryptocurrency at all in our position, but now we do.

Tex:

You're a Are you a whole coiner?

Chace & Helen:

I think we're,

Tex:

I heard that's a term. I'm not sure about it. Someone said it to me. I was like, what is that? Whole coiners.

Chace & Helen:

know. Yeah. We, we are a whole coiner of some, yeah. Yeah.

Tex:

Yeah.

Chace & Helen:

We've got a whole coin.

Tex:

Uh, you got digital real estate too as well as real real

Chace & Helen:

yeah.

Tex:

then.

Chace & Helen:

Yeah. And that feels pretty good because again, that was a big education process for us about getting comfortable,

Tex:

Yeah. How did you think about that? Because I know it's a, it is a, it's a long journey. I just say to most people just, if you're not willing to get super curious about it, just don't even worry about it. Just it alone.

Chace & Helen:

Yeah.

Tex:

How did you think about that when you, when you did decide to do

Chace & Helen:

Yeah, look, I mean, the podcast really helped that was really cool. Like, ML, you know, some of them are really long and I'll get lost in them sometimes, but then I come back to it and I said, Oh, this has got a bit of legs, you know, it makes sense. Talking about how money is and how the government can influence money now, and then they can't touch Bitcoin. I guess the way we were thinking about Bitcoin cryptocurrency as well, we, we started to think more about our children and what this can mean for our children. Is this kind of the investment that we make on their behalf now? Is this just going to be theirs in the future? I think what we ask ourselves is what proportion, you know, of our overall portfolio do we want this to make up? And just, you know, not have it too overexposed to cryptocurrency. But enough that it could be something significant in the future. And we thought a lot about it from the perspective of values. So, about what it's doing, you know, is it aligned to our values? A lot of people like, you know, we've had a lot of, not debates, Terry, but discussions around you know, how it can traverse corrupt governments in, you know, and what it means in the monetary system. And that we fundamentally believe that there, there needs to be a better way for our society to function. Other than the current monetary, what, what's the, what's the what's the system called again? Sorry.

Tex:

It's a credit based

Chace & Helen:

Yeah.

Tex:

Just

Chace & Helen:

Like the net yen in history. What are we calling it again? Fiat. Fiat.

Tex:

fear.

Chace & Helen:

Yeah. You know, we were, we were listening to a few podcasts and we were going, this just makes sense on every level. Like the, the security of it. How it can't be meddled with, we, we agree with that, that it can't, you know, that we love the centralised nature of it decentralised, well, yeah, so there's, yeah, definitely,

Tex:

But then there's, you've also got to take the responsibility on too. And I think that's a huge, first time I sent it to myself, was like, whoa, that's it. That feels, that hits different. You know what I

Chace & Helen:

yeah,

Tex:

it's on you now. Did you guys have a good think through that as well? Because I think that's a real big part of the decision too.

Chace & Helen:

it is, I don't, I think we're underestimated that. I think we, we probably a little bit naively didn't that was probably one of the components that are a bit undercooked for us. The security and the responsibility of what that actually means. So, yeah.

Tex:

You send it the first time, you sort of shit yourself because it doesn't go straight away. You're like, what? Where is it? Because if I did something wrong, I don't get it back.

Chace & Helen:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right, if you lose your code, you're done.

Tex:

yeah, yeah. I've got a, uh, I shouldn't actually say this. I'm not going to say that in the podcast. I've got a, uh, I've got a story I tell my kids.

Chace & Helen:

Yeah,

Tex:

And,

Chace & Helen:

it's got a special significance, I'm guessing.

Tex:

uh, yeah, the, uh, the seed phrase is embedded in the story, basically. They're like, why are you telling us this weird story all the time, dad? And I'm like, it'll make sense for you one day. I might edit that out of the podcast.

Chace & Helen:

No, no, I'm being there's some interesting Company is now setting up around the phrases though, isn't it? Like around it getting transcribed on platinum and things like that.

Tex:

Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My brother's got one of these. Yeah. It's just a fireproof sort of way to keep your, keep your

Chace & Helen:

Yeah. Yep.

Tex:

Keep it safe,

Chace & Helen:

Yep.

Tex:

But yeah, there's a bit involved, there's a bit involved. But that wasn't the only thing as well. So property, we've got a little bit in Bitcoin here that's going on as well. You guys continue to invest in shares, build out that debt recycling strategy as well. The careers started, really started to make some moves career wise as well. And I remember the first time we met, there was conversations around this for you guys, like feeling a bit stuck both, uh, both at TAC at the

Chace & Helen:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tex:

And then, so where do we go from there? What happened there?

Chace & Helen:

Do you want to go? So yeah, I've since moved from TAC and, uh, moved over to Gen U, which, uh, disability company. So I've been there like I moved maybe, I mean, we're close to two years ago now. Yeah. So yeah, in management and then you know, I've had some acting stints you know, above my level a few times. But I guess probably the big thing for me, and it's probably more in the last six months, is I really would like to go back to my original profession, which is osteo. I'm a qualified osteopath, so, making some moves around that really specifically. But I guess the choices or the reasons why we got to that is I just wasn't happy with the level of control I had in my career, you know, I was sort of had too much debate with someone else above me that I didn't always agree to and probably more important that my values weren't aligning to which I think you know, through discussion with yourselves and you know, it's sort of just, you know, seeing what you guys have done with cashflow and actually building something really valuable in the community,

Tex:

Hmm.

Chace & Helen:

something that we want to do as well, uh, but also make it work for. Our family, you know, we've got kids at school now, and we want to, you know, be able to say when we start work and when we finish work, and have a bit more control over that, so.

Tex:

I want to, I want to come back to, I want to come back to that because there's a point where this converges as well between you guys together. but before I do, I'm going to ask Helen a couple of questions too because you've, you've done a couple of little moves here

Chace & Helen:

Hmm,

Tex:

Chase, the first part of that was, was you exploring kind of the management path and going, what do I think of that as a sort of skill set? Do you feel like you were able to pick up that as a toolkit through those decisions as well?

Chace & Helen:

yeah, I think so. I guess, yeah. Yeah, I was always just, what I probably struggle with, it's probably better to talk about what I struggle with, so just struggling to have a leader or someone that I really aspire to at work, so I had to really go external for that. So I probably learnt more by observing poor leadership than I did good leadership. And then, And then this was an easy question for me. I said, you know, am I going to be here in five years time? And the answer was a really loud no. So what am I doing about that? Do I just become one of those rusted on employees that is just always unhappy? And just say, oh, this has been shit forever. It's never going to change. That's no good for anyone. And you know, no good for me in terms of just blowing away years for no reason. So there's a fair bit of learning in that. In terms of the, the, the tools I learned with management, like, I guess I learned to lead through, uh, really tough times and see what happens when businesses sort of go a little bit sour, a little bit bad, and team morale goes down, culture goes down. So, a lot of big takeaways for me for, you know, to take into, you know, what's coming next. Yeah. It's been quite testing for you as a leader, but I think you've got a lot out of it. I would say you're, uh, you're, uh, a competent experience leader now compared to probably when we first met and you've explored what it's like to move into a, into a private, I guess, not, not for profit, which has been good. That was always an avenue you wanted to explore a little bit more, so it was really,

Tex:

That's definitely the theme that I'm getting from you guys is like, more exploration in this space after kind of setting yourselves up and getting, making sure that you had some of these choices. Helen, I want to come to you as well. So, you've, you've done a couple of big things. You've moved in a couple of different directions as well and really learned a lot as well. So, where did you take it from TAC?

Chace & Helen:

yeah. I went headfirst into consulting. Like, what you'd say is my ultimate career, or what I thought was going to be my absolute ultimate career pinnacle, is like,

Tex:

Yeah.

Chace & Helen:

all I'd actually ever dreamt that if I got to this point. You know, all my wildest dreams would have come true. That was kind of the way I'd fantasized about it previously. And I actually didn't have the self belief previously to take those steps. I didn't think I could do it. I didn't think I was one of those people. I didn't think.

Tex:

Well, I remember you were going to quit the NBI. early days, you were like, oh, I don't, and I, you know, completely get at that stage of Lonnie. But I was like, just finish it because you kind of, I think you were maybe a third or maybe a halfway through at that point. and that probably did, it probably did come into play when, when these opportunities come up, right?

Chace & Helen:

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Tex:

This is

Chace & Helen:

And for me, like,

Tex:

of,

Chace & Helen:

was me stepping outside of a government, uh, really stable career that I could have stayed at for basically the rest of my working life. and completely stepping into a new career. Again, like I probably had rose colored glasses on for a little bit. It was a really tough move and I moved into consulting at a really tough time when a huge thing happened in Australia with governments and the way they were supporting consulting and the reputation of consultants. The little thing. Yeah. Uh, yeah, it was the PWC set.

Tex:

Oh, PwC scandal, right. So all the government contracts are being scrutinized

Chace & Helen:

Yeah,

Tex:

and you're in a consulting company that's a bunch of these contracts. Is that

Chace & Helen:

yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically the rug was pulled out from everyone and there was heaps of people on the bench. There was a lot of pressure. There was a lot of competition for jobs. So really, it would truly, really challenging environment. But gosh, did it just set me on this trajectory of learning and meeting people that I loved. I met some of the Best people in consulting. So I, although I was feeling so far out of my comfort zone in terms of my skills and where I was at and some of the projects I was working on when I was doing gigs in, in topics and areas that I didn't feel confident in. However, I did, I did technically have enough applicable skills and learnings and leadership from previous roles to bring it. But,

Tex:

can you give us an example of one of those times where you're like, what is going on here? What am I doing?

Chace & Helen:

Well, I had to, I had to turn around with a small, very, very lean team, a cyber security evaluation in something like six weeks, and it was like a 90 page report that went to, I'm not going to say who it's for or whatever it's because it's highly confidential, but it supported a decision worth something like 128 million. So I was like,

Tex:

This is just a bit of time and money and pressure. Just a little

Chace & Helen:

The

Tex:

Yeah.

Chace & Helen:

were super high and not in an area that I was or a technical skill area that I'm particularly a specialist in.

Tex:

But your job was to manage the team, not necessarily be the expert,

Chace & Helen:

Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Tex:

Yeah. So what did you learn? So in those scenarios, I find I learned things that I need to improve on and I also learned things that I didn't know I was good at.

Chace & Helen:

yeah.

Tex:

What's true for you there?

Chace & Helen:

Just literally how you can work together with a team that you don't know. to generate a great client outcome and literally

Tex:

Yep.

Chace & Helen:

together to the line. So drawing on specialist skills and expertise and actually working as a team in a remote environment, it is actually possible to get a great outcome. What I learned, you need to have the tough conversations with people. You don't have any time to waste. So time to decision and time to just moving forward. Just sped that up about times a hundred and if you can do that, the progress at which you make and towards your outcome is going to be exponential.

Tex:

That's good. And what about the self awareness piece around room for improvements where you're like, Oh, here's some gaps, here's some gaps I got to fix.

Chace & Helen:

I, I, yeah, like probably one and then it had come up in previous work is when to reach out for support and guidance. So there was a point in which in this project particularly, I tried to take on sort of a mentoring role for someone who wasn't performing and hadn't escalated it soon enough. And that's probably typical for me. I'll just try to battle battle through without asking for support. So again, just getting, getting the right people in at the right time and not, maybe it's an ego thing. I don't know. Cause you don't want to feel like you're failing. So you're like, I'll find another way to make it work myself. Or I'll coach this person out of their performance. I've got to give them another shot. Give it another shot. But when you don't have time.

Tex:

Oh, you're in a time based business.

Chace & Helen:

Yeah. Yeah.

Tex:

Bill. I said, I was like billable hours. You feel it?

Chace & Helen:

Literally, you learn the value of your time. That is

Tex:

Absolutely.

Chace & Helen:

absolutely.

Tex:

So, but then ultimately we got, you got to a place. Was it, was it six to nine months in where you were like, okay, I know what this is now. I'm not sure it is what I want. Talk us through that part and, and how you came to that decision and how you felt about it.

Chace & Helen:

I looked at my potential future career trajectory and the self development that I would need to do. So, although I guess in somewhat you could say I'd made a successful transition in, and I was going to be ongoing in the business. I do have a lot of gaps still around consulting that I would need to implement and, and not that I'm trying to shy away from improving myself, but I knew actually more accurately what it would take for me to be successful in a firm like that. And I need to, to seriously ask and ask with Chase and have conversations about what that would mean for our family, you know, whether it be related to travel, whether it be related to just the the way we live our lives and, and could we integrate it successfully longer term? You know, is the trade off there? Can we say it? And do we want to take this? And then the end of the day, it probably, it was, it wasn't what I was looking for in, I guess, a career, like I thought, which to me, it was a probably bittersweet moment when I stepped away. You know, like, I don't know whether it's bittersweet or. There was mixed sadness around stepping away after, you know, just under a year. However, it definitely was the right thing and I did it on my own terms. I wasn't pushed out either. So I think that shocked a lot of people internally. They're like, they'll kind of be shocked and surprised,

Tex:

Mmm.

Chace & Helen:

move, but I, I, it often made sense when I explained it. How are you doing? I'm alright.

Tex:

I had the same thing leaving sport. People were like, what are you, you don't leave a job like this. Like, I'm doing it. Did you get anyone question you in a way? Like, cause I, I found this. A lot of people question me expressing their own doubt about themselves to me. like, what are you going to do? Like. Really sort of, I don't know, very unhelpful. I've had a very unhelpful people like, What are you gonna do after this? Have you got a plan? Duh duh duh duh duh, that sort of stuff.

Chace & Helen:

Yeah, people, people were overly concerned about what, what you're going to do. What, like, and what possible job that could look like. And my decision wouldn't have made sense to them. But neither did it need to make sense to them, I don't think. A lot of the time what I saw in their lives is wonderful people, who, again, incredibly intelligent people who I dearly love and I think they're like incredible go getters, but I don't think they saw the trade off in what it meant for their life either and what they were giving up as a result of their career. So they, they could only see one part of the world as well and I did long for some people to have a bit more of a balance so that they could see and help them weigh up, up what was truly important in their lives and what they were meaning to give up.

Tex:

There's a book that I recommend to folks regularly. And it's written by a Harvard business professor. He's dead now. His name's Clayton Christensen. Called How Will You Measure Your Life? And there's a line that I read in that book and it just like, Absolutely burned into my brain, and I was like, oh, that's you, you're at risk of that. And, he was like, be really careful getting caught up in gains of your career, because the loop can be relatively short, and it can get addictive. Like, you can go and be like, I did this, and now I'm getting this, and then here's this, and these organizations are really good at creating clear pathways and very, like, obvious criteria for advancement, and, and it creates this ladder. Corrects this real ladder for you, and you can just get so addicted to climbing the fucking ladder. and, you know, there's that, that famous saying of Stephen Covey, it's like, you just be careful, get caught in, getting, busy, caught up in that activity trap, climbing a ladder that's leaning against the wrong wall. and the thing that Christensen said in the book too, is like, you're getting these, this kind of short term hit from these gains here, but what you don't realize is the long term stuff you're giving up. the investments that you're not making in the people around you that you really do care about, and you only realize that at the

Chace & Helen:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's gone. It's too late.

Tex:

it's gone. And then you go, actually I was just having a conversation with my dad today, he's, it's really hitting him, I think, his kind of mortality is starting to

Chace & Helen:

Yeah. Yeah.

Tex:

he's like, mate, at the end of the day, like all this other shit doesn't fucking matter.

Chace & Helen:

Yeah. Yeah.

Tex:

It doesn't matter, it really

Chace & Helen:

Yeah. And like I was seeing the senior managers literally working to 10 o'clock every night and saying they're improving the culture around balance and getting the culture right. Uh, I just wasn't, I wasn't seeing it necessarily. And, and them all trying to juggle the act.

Tex:

Well, the incentives are wrong. If you're gonna keep a billable hours model, you're gonna have people working

Chace & Helen:

Yeah.

Tex:

Because you're gonna be, you're gonna need to push for efficiencies as much as possible. People are gonna try to hit those targets because they've got these visible trinkets in front of them that they can get to. So you could say it as much as you like, but if your incentives are set up the other way, who cares?

Chace & Helen:

You know, the other thing that I realized is I'm actually a really poor, not poor, terrible organizer. I need somebody to help me get a plan in place. And so what I thought I'd gone in there to do was, I can manage a project and that sort of stuff, but actually I needed quite a lot of help and structure to get me started and get me across the line. And if you don't have that the people to supplement you to keep you on track. You're in trouble because

Tex:

yeah,

Chace & Helen:

can't, again, you don't have time to sit there. You need a, you need a plan, you need it yesterday and you need to implement it. But no.

Tex:

So right, so six to nine months of that and you're sort of going, okay, cool. I know what this is now What was it like for you? So this is as you said like an ambition for a long really a really long period of time Even in the space that you wanted to get to how do you feel about it now? So it's probably what is it now about is it 12 months removed? I don't know

Chace & Helen:

Oh, it's probably only six since I've actually,

Tex:

oh, is

Chace & Helen:

exited. Like November last year maybe. Yeah, no, not even. What is it like for me now?

Tex:

do you, so here's the, here's a better question. Do you regret it?

Chace & Helen:

No, not at all. There is not one part of me that regrets it at all. I learned so much about what I need to be successful in the next role that I move to and more around where and what I wanted to spend my time doing. So it all came back to time as well. Where am I spending my time? Where am I spending my investment in these short days that we've got with our kids? Do I want to see my kids or am I going to be traveling for it? So do I regret it? No, it made me realize that I need and I want a job closer to home. I need to see people. I need to be around them physically in an office. And that as silly as it sounds, that was one of the big learnings for me out of all this, because there's some really great things about these big companies. They're super flexible, but at the end of the day, don't fill my cup. No, it really didn't do it. I didn't feel like I'd made the human connection with people and then about how important that was for me to be in a career that actually had that working with a team, working with a team to make people's lives better. So I actually.

Tex:

You're just describing your

Chace & Helen:

I am. I'm just back on the road again, which is amazing because again, I've added that next career change. So from there, I just stepped into something that was with a wonderful company, closer to home. Into a division and a space that I'd never worked in before, but it was really like my passion. So I get, you know, my eyes light up. I'm excited by it. I love my team that I'm working with and my colleagues, they inspire me and I think that we're doing really awesome work. So yeah, I'm gonna go.

Tex:

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. this is where things start to sort of come together a little bit. And I was just saying you guys, before it looked to me like there was a sort of a line in the sand moment for you guys around Christmas. We actually went on holidays together and. You guys had spoken about, okay, we're going to do, we're going to do something for ourselves here. So this is where I want to come back to your conversation, Chase. So coming back to Center for You Osteo, this is where it all kind of came back into focus. What, what was it about? What, what was that conversation? Like take us into that. And then where has it taken you

Chace & Helen:

Yeah, I kind of, I wish we kind of recorded it or something. I remember we were outside our, uh, well we were up in Warrnambool, outside on the table and then we just, you know, it was like, it was almost like a question, it's like, why, why aren't I doing it? You know, it makes so much more sense, feels so much more natural and I couldn't really give an answer and just like, it was just obviously like, yeah, look, of course I want to get back into it, you know, like it just, I think.

Tex:

Cause you've been at Osteo for

Chace & Helen:

Yeah, yeah, I feel it.

Tex:

you had been

Chace & Helen:

Absolutely, yeah. So I've been in OCO for about 15 years and I sort of had a bit of a break just before COVID. When we moved down to Geelong jumped into a salaried position. I'd always been curious as a subcontractor what it was like to get a same pay packet every fortnight. You get paid to go, you walk down the street, get a coffee, all that sort of stuff, you definitely don't get paid leave on as a subcontractor. So, jumping for that, jumped on the, you know, the government gravy train and probably what Helen said too, like, you know, at the end of the day, it wasn't filling my cup despite all the flexible arrangements and, you know, obviously consistent salary, like, I wasn't really making a difference and I was just part of the churn and burn. We probably, we talked a bit about mastery, I think, over the New Year's period and what that looks like and about the things that we're actually quite good at and it was something that keep, keep raising its head again for us as a couple. that we hadn't revisited in a little while. So it was a nice reminder, about what we were probably naturally good at and an unanswered question around, you know, should we, could we, what would that actually look like? So it just was a bit of a conversation starter and, and a chance for us to go, actually, are we at a very different point and do we hold some very different beliefs now around what it means to own a business? And what that looks like and what that could do for us. So I think old us would have gone. Oh, no, we don't want that sort of responsibility. It's a lot, you know, most businesses fail. That's the sort of mentality and when we were forced to relook at it, we were like You're actually good at this. You're now 15 years experienced. We now both bring a new range and set of skills that we can think that we can apply to a clinic. Uh, we're in a much different financial position. We now think very differently about the value of our time and where we want to invest it. So it was all these sort of things. And so, and, you know, talking about legacy and where we want to have that impact. How can we bring all that together? And it was just literally a no brainer. So, you know, light switch on aha moment going, yeah, I think that's it.

Tex:

Yeah. And so, because you said 15 years Chase, so just tell us a little bit more about the background and where you sort of come from beforehand because I feel like now this sort of sets you up differently because you sort of had that period of time to build a real good base then you built some, some different more people based skills then now you're going to build, you are sort of building the new business now. So what, what's kind of underpinning from the background with Osteo? Yeah. Yeah.

Chace & Helen:

I guess, you know, when I first started practicing I guess when you study Osteo, you never get taught how to run a business, how to run a team, you know, how to performance manage team members. So yeah, working under an associate, under a principal, as an associate, It was always a bit of a grind. If you weren't busy, you weren't really sure, you know, if your principles in doing things in your best interest, is he marketing for you to make sure you get some more people through the door always came to a head with me. And so I've worked through a few different principles and they're very much the same, very busy, didn't set aside the time to work on the business which probably ultimately helped my decision to move over into a salary position But, you know, since moving into like a people leading role yeah, gained those skills about the importance of, you know, communication building and maintaining a culture, you know, having difficult conversations around performance keeping people engaged and looking at them when they're going through a rough time as well and finding out what's important to them. So, And I think Helen shares that too, that like, you know, starting a business and potentially, you know, our aim is to have a few people working with us really confident that we can provide, you know, a really great environment for people to come and work and feel like they're, you know, they're heard and they're well looked after and they can, you know, you know, it can flourish. So, whereas previously, if I hadn't stepped away from Osteo, I don't think I would have got those skills. Maybe got them with maybe a small team, but you know, I've led teams of 20 plus now. So, it's really important to maintain that culture, because if you don't have the culture, you got nothing. It flows on into your service delivery, you get bad feedback, that spreads and then you get, you know, less referrals. So, um I think we I think we actually also recognize that there was an opportunity for us to come together as a team again. And this was a particularly unique opportunity where if we were able to combine our skills to have a bigger impact on the people in the communities we serve. Why wouldn't we do that? Because ultimately that's kind of where we're driven from a values basis. And We wouldn't be serving our communities if we didn't see if we could try to make this work together. So, and we've, we've drawn some pretty clear lines in the sand around what our roles in this new business look like. We're trying to maintain them. Um, there's some interesting dynamics obviously with us being husband and wife. But I mean, yeah, like with Chase being, you know, he's awesome. He's got these wonderful, incredible hands on skills that, that are now quite rare. And so in terms of what he can then provide to other Osteos in terms of learning and opportunities, I'm excited for him to start mentoring and coaching others around these skills, because you don't get that anymore in universities.

Tex:

You don't. No. And something you said earlier I want to come back to, which was, I might've been moved before we started recording. We talked about like, who you were, you guys wanted to work with, who you were working with. And I think it probably speaks to how inclusive you are as an individual and how you have been. You're like, it's not necessarily a particular type person. It's an experience I want to create for

Chace & Helen:

Yeah.

Tex:

Tell me more

Chace & Helen:

Yeah, look, I think and look, I've got a bit of inspiration from a few clinics not necessarily in Victoria, but look, I think it's the experience of going to see someone and, and probably add to that the investment. Yeah. in people making a decision to spend money on their health. I think that's really overstated. I think that's probably the first thing to go when times are tough, and people stop spending on themselves and, you know, but they'll quite happily go and get a haircut or go and get their nails done or something like that. I would love to flip that in terms of, you know, really rewarding people for investing in themselves. Like, and when they come in to see, you know, come into our clinic, you know, they, they feel like, oh, Good on me, pat on the back, you know, I'm taking time away from my screaming kids or kids that don't sleep and I'm gonna, you know, go and get some really good advice, get a good treatment and I'm investing for myself and you know, hence, you know, the name of our studio, Good Days Studio, we want to get you more good days. But there's a bit of a mutual relationship. You don't just automatically get more good days. You need to take some steps and invest in yourself. So we really want to promote that in our community because everyone deserves more good days, you know, and we'll, maybe we'll record that and put it on the ad or something, but you know, we're not, we're not about, you know, selling people treatment plans that they have to come back week in and week out. It's more get in, get treated, get sorted, work out what you want to do, and we help you there. But in the meantime, you have a great experience, you know, and it's like going into a day spa or, you know, just somewhere where you can relax, feel safe get a good outcome, and then go home to your family and do whatever makes you happy. So, we're really I have to make a fuss of myself. Ha, ha, ha, that was

Tex:

I got a couple of, I got a couple of early treatments, early days with you. And I think I sent you a couple of, uh, a couple of photos. I was like, look how deep I'm squatting. I was, I was pretty happy with

Chace & Helen:

good, that was, yeah, we'll have to remind that back in the garage, you know, when it was hot and 40 degrees in the garage and blowflies everywhere, but yeah, no, you're a, you're a gem to treat.

Tex:

You know, but it's funny, like. So I've, I've worked with a lot of experts in this space. But not a lot of people have the intuition, I don't think, tell you what you need to hear at that moment. And I didn't actually even know I needed to hear this. But you said something to me at the end of that treatment. I was like, oh, oh, that felt so good. And you were like, oh mate, you're far from broken. Like, actually, things are going pretty well here. I was like, am I? That's good. Because I feel fucked.

Chace & Helen:

And that's the thing, and that is so true with so many of my patients that come in, you know, they've got a message from somewhere, you know, whether it's a doctor or someone in their family saying, I'm buggered. I'll never run again. And I'll be like, hang on, mate, what, why, like, what, like, give it a go. We're, we're designed to move, you know, and it's, I think a lot of people carry that to say, I'm buggered. I'm always going to be buggered. I'm keen to flip that and let's test it and push the boundaries, you know, helping people now like run 5k or run a half marathon or run a marathon, you know, really testing the limits because that's what they want to do and, you know, almost proving themselves wrong. So yeah, that's what I love about my job where I can say, you know, I've got all my medical outcome measures I can talk about and bore you to death, but what's your, what's your outcome measure? What do you want to do? What do you want to get out of this? Once we nail that. It comes part of the treatment plan we get after it, and then you can achieve it. So,

Tex:

I love

Chace & Helen:

it's. Hmm. Yeah.

Tex:

But you start to make assumptions that, oh, okay, I guess I can't do that anymore. now that this has happened, I can't do that anymore. So the pushback on that I think is huge, like, and it has to happen. Like, to me, I'm, I'm just constantly fighting that all the time within myself. Like, why? Just keep going. Just keep, keep, I'm, like, I'm getting stronger. I want to get

Chace & Helen:

Yeah. And we should be, I mean, there's a number of things working in our favor, isn't there, in terms of science, technology, that sort of stuff. So we'd love to look into that and how we integrate that.

Tex:

look, if in our lifetime, you could extend

Chace & Helen:

Yeah. Yeah.

Tex:

might live another 40 because of where tech can get to.

Chace & Helen:

It's insane, isn't it? So yeah, we're particularly excited about the new models that exist around care, and just moving away from the boring, giving people great experiences, making them feel good about where they're wanting to go, and sort of helping them do that, and yeah.

Tex:

Yeah. Chase's role is obviously subject matter expert here. Helen, you talked about some clear lines here. What are you, what role are you playing in this business?

Chace & Helen:

Oh, I'm, I'm doing a bit of the the backend sis, uh, I reckon being in the, having a look at the systems, marketing, branding, social media, that side of things, and just making sure that we're set up to, to provide a, like an exceptional experience. So some of those one percenters that I think make the difference and look. To be honest, we haven't got a lot of them in place now, but I can see it. And so their, their works in progress for us. Yeah. They,

Tex:

building for

Chace & Helen:

they'll be,

Tex:

I think about like what you're aspiring to. So, so for me, I always think like the best service is invisible in all the right ways where you kind of go, Oh, I can't remember it. remember the outcome. I don't

Chace & Helen:

yeah.

Tex:

too much of the process. What's the part of the process that you guys want to go, we nailed that part?

Chace & Helen:

It's probably a nice way to put it, Terry. And people just, yeah, I think those invisible one percenters. I really like that. Yeah. I just, I really want people to come in and they, they really feel rewarded for spending money on themselves, I think as opposed to just a, a thing you need to do. You get a bad back, you go and pay a couple of o osteo treatments or physio or whatever. It's a real investment. And it's a time just for them. I think, I just, I can't go over enough, you know. People that just don't take time for themselves. You know, and they get down on the treatment bed. You can't go anywhere. Your head's down in the hole. You know, you have to chill out. Let yourself do that. Have your own time. So you can go home and be You know, better partner, better father, mother you know, and again, get after what you want to get after. But I think if we can make that journey and make that reward really obvious to our customers, I think that's, we've done our job. Yeah. And they can go away and say, look, we've You know, had a really great experience. I highly recommend it. That would be the ultimate reward. Yeah. I think we're, we're looking to remove any type of experience that reminds people of a sterile clinical environment. So no boring. We want a fun, vibrant place where people want to come to. And I know that sometimes people get a bit nervous, rightly so, about going in for treatment. But, we want to kind of Get people and utilize different senses to help them effectively heal themselves, I guess. Yeah, exactly. And that, probably more than that. And we're not, we're not about building dependency. Like, I'm not a guru or anything like that. I'm not going to heal everyone. But it's a good start, you know, and then, you know, the patient is a big part of it. So we're sort of walk alongside people as opposed to walking in front of them. So that's what

Tex:

Mm.

Chace & Helen:

Hmm.

Tex:

I like that too, because the industry is, it sort of does lend itself a bit to that. The sort of, the guru mentality.

Chace & Helen:

I was talking to Chase last night about there's, there seems to be traditionally like two different camps. There's like your standard allied health models, medical models that still exist and they still have a place and they're there. And then on the other spectrum, there's kind of your more alternative. I still think that there's two camps. So there's the alternative, the more extreme therapies, the less, medicalized. I think we're somewhere in between. So we're neither of those two things. We're not like a hippy dippy Byron Bay retreat or anything like that. We've been bringing the best of like science and what medicine and evidence tells us. We like a great experience too, and that we're doing that for people so that it's accessible. We don't want to be exclusive. We want to actually help as many people as possible.

Tex:

And if this was all easy, he's starting up and making this happen at this stage, everyone would be doing it. So there's challenges that come alongside this. How have you guys met? You've obviously, you're obviously both juggling more part time work now, and you've got the business that's actually up and going. You've got a customer base that's growing. have you kind of managed working with each other, but also working with your money to be able to move through this kind of transit, this awkward transition phase?

Chace & Helen:

well, it's probably a fair argument saying that we're not managing that well.

Tex:

I don't

Chace & Helen:

yeah.

Tex:

thinks they ever are.

Chace & Helen:

So, but I think, I feel like we're inching towards, you know, feeling better about having a bit more of a plan and just taking Probably a bit of extra time, much to Helen's disgust, but it has been tricky sort of juggling you know, a couple of jobs and a couple of kids as well, but I think, you know, by having conversations probably out loud like this is just really reaffirming where we're trying to go but also, you know, giving ourselves a bit of a break that it's going to take a little bit of time to get a really good finished product, but I think we've got the elements, the ideas of sound but how we're going about it now, I guess, you know, like the, our cashflow habits, our money mapping has been really helpful, like I guess we're building a bit of a, I guess a transition plan in terms of, you know, for lack of windfall when we, when we do make decisions and pull the trigger. So having those principles in place has really given us confidence that, you know, really making sure we're understanding the costs, what, what things cost and then what could be the. the loss if we do jump over and how do we handle that? What's plan B? What's plan C? So that's sort of helping us manage the risk. I think we've gone pretty far on the sort of financial aspect. It's probably just,

Tex:

Oh, you guys are super clear on like, okay, when this, then this, and this,

Chace & Helen:

yeah, and it's just probably just a few of the practical things like around service delivery and our systems and stuff like that. That just needs some work. But yeah, but it's a very early stage, but like, I'm sure I think we're just trying to remain focused on what's going to make the, what's going to make the difference. There's always questions in my head around sequencing. You've got so many different parts of the business.

Tex:

Oh, I, it's actually overwhelming at the start because you don't know how to prioritize yet, because you don't know what you

Chace & Helen:

No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Tex:

for about a week when we got going, I'm like, I have, like I'm drowning in what's in front of me because I can see what I need to do now. I also know that I can't see all these other things that I need to do, I'm

Chace & Helen:

yeah, yeah,

Tex:

It's interesting for me, like that feeling you just talked about where you go, there's all these things we kind of want to do. actually doesn't go away. And that's, I guess once I sort of made peace with that, it did help I was like, we're always, we're always going to figure out to do things better. Like we're going to roll out a completely new delivery model for our thing tonight. that's probably been. months in the making and you got to kind of really think your way through it. And I've had that intuition for like six months, you know. There's something missing here. We've got, I don't know, and then you sort of figure out what it is. And then you realize the enormity of what it is. then you got to kind of chunk it down make

Chace & Helen:

yeah.

Tex:

basically.

Chace & Helen:

So shiny object syndrome comes into this. You know, a good example of that, I went and met with a big architecture firm, probably a couple of months in. Like, insane. And I'm talking about, like, wanting to fit out a residence that was going to cost minimum 50, 000.

Tex:

yeah, yeah,

Chace & Helen:

which we had it in a business that was not making any profit at all at that stage, you know, the ground that was just a very clear, like me getting very excited about the future, but I'm glad I did it because it has added to our vision, but also assisted with our prioritization. Obviously, if we have 50 grand, it's probably not best placed to be put into something like that right at this minute. Where we need to invest our time is making a high quality service that we have raving fans over. So like, let's try to make the, the service and what we're providing to our current client base as exceptional as possible before we try to scale and do anything else that's too crazy. I just,

Tex:

You probably don't feel positioned to give it. But for folks that are. Thinking about back, because I, the way I would summarize this is you guys have backed yourselves and backed each other just move, like keep moving in that direction. So you're, I'm going to try this next year, you're going to try this next year career and you're, you've course corrected beautifully over that period of time. Because you're sort of like, yeah, nah, not quite that. Yeah, nah, not quite that. And then you've sort of moved in this direction. You've come to this, this point now where you've like, all right, cool. We're moving this direction. And now we're starting to sort of build something that's going to compound. What advice would you give to a individual or a couple have a lot of those conversations that just don't know where to get started and feel like they're stuck on something? How, how would you advise that couple?

Chace & Helen:

I guess it, yeah, it does help obviously to talk about it. That's probably the step one.

Tex:

Yeah. Uh,

Chace & Helen:

what, what you're looking for, I guess. You know, what you're, what you're after. Like what, or maybe what even, what isn't working now. And then that might be the starting point for, well, if you could have a magic wand and got rid of this thing, what would it mean for you? Yeah, I need, I think you do need to be quite honest with yourself around your motivations. Why, why are you wanting this? Are you trying to escape? From a situation that you're not like and, and that for me was a big thing around am I just trying to get out of a hard situation because it's hard or have I got a reason that's actually bigger than this that is valid and it truly is the right decision to make. So I think you need to spend a bit of time in that space weighing, weighing out those things and seeking advice from trusted people in your life. And I guess it's not a smooth process, like, we'd probably have these conversations multiple times a day with ourselves and with each other. Just because we've moved a few times doesn't mean we're experts at it. It's not an easy thing. You're always self doubt, you know, kind of a bit of imposter syndrome here and there, but. Yeah, it was, the whole setting up a business and excitement and being sexy wore off pretty quickly. Yeah. Despite my enthusiasm and everything.

Tex:

I saw this funny meme on LinkedIn a couple of days ago and I was like, yeah, that's gold. And it was this surfer who's getting, he's getting filmed after he just gets out of the, out of the out of the water. And he's like, oh dude, you get out of this thing and it's like, oh, it just pictures you. And it's like, he's just fully stoked on this thing and he's just going on and on and on. And it's like, yeah, startup founders. And then I put at the end of it, I was like, yeah, for the first six months.

Chace & Helen:

Definitely. I think one thing we learned to do as well as you want to celebrate early successes when you do have them. So we're putting in a bit more structure around checking in around that progress and the port. So that we're not focused on the gap again, because we'll always then be beating ourselves up around that gap. But about then, the progress and the changes that we've made, even if it's not felt great. You know, even though there's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think

Tex:

like a failure or you're not quite there, like it just gets you and just gets you down. Like if I thought like that now, I'd be like, I quit yesterday. In terms of where we are, where we know we want to be and what that never changes. And that's not the point. The point is for you to make progress and the pleasure being the progress and the pursuit.

Chace & Helen:

there's a bit in that, and I think we both, I don't know, kind of like a challenge as well. So like, I think. Particularly in my current role, I kind of see that as the easy option. And I don't think I could live with that if I just took the easy option for the rest of my career. Like, it just, I think I'd, you know, it's like that kind of die with zero, you know. It's time to, to act now because, you know, there's no time like the present, I guess. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Yeah,

Tex:

me is dying with zero regrets. Cause if you think about the, what's the number one regret of the dying, well, I didn't pursue a life true to me. And what do I always, what's underneath that? It's the act of the act of omission, the things we didn't do, even if those things weren't correct. And

Chace & Helen:

definitely. Yeah.

Tex:

what we've been discussing is exactly that where you're like, well, that wasn't necessarily correct, but we did something. And that wasn't necessarily it, but we did

Chace & Helen:

Yeah,

Tex:

around when you're 50 and go, Oh, we sort of just fucking, we just clocked in, didn't we? And clocked out. You're not going to do that.

Chace & Helen:

not made it meaningful for anything. You know, the other day I got incredibly frustrated because I dropped something like 10 to 20 hours on the weekend developing a survey for our clients. And Chase pretty much told me it was a load of crap at the end. At the end of it. And I almost lost my mind because I thought I've just wasted all that time but it's about reframing moments, as stupid as it sounds, reframing moments like that and going, well actually I did learn a lot before this, I started this on this weekend, I didn't know how to do this, now I know how to build

Tex:

you

Chace & Helen:

a survey.

Tex:

I've just spent three months on that. Yeah,

Chace & Helen:

I've got to iterate, I just have to go again. Pick yourself up and just go. I'll go with that. Yeah.

Tex:

to this will be like, oh, it just sounds like it's not that much fun. me, I think if you're, if you're, if your measure is external and your measure is fun, you're probably not going to want to do it. If your measure is internal and you want to improve, You'll love it because there's no better vehicle for actualizing yourself. You're going to have to come up against your own bullshit all the time. You can't tell yourself stupid stories about how you're talented or gifted at this. It doesn't

Chace & Helen:

No, it doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. That's exactly right.

Tex:

you are from the outcomes and the inputs and just be like, it is what it is. And the focus isn't on me. The focus is on the person I'm trying to serve. So it's not about me. And that's what I've noticed. So you get the selfishness beaten out of you over time, because if you stay selfish and you want it all to be about you, you're probably an influencer that makes no money, but has a lot of fans.

Chace & Helen:

Yeah. And they're going, okay, why are we doing this again? It didn't work. You just have to find a way. Like if you really want to serve the people that you're looking to serve, you need to take those cues, take the feedback and go again and go.

Tex:

And your reward is the rights that you earn for taking that responsibility. And the rights that you earn is the choice and control over how you spend your time, what you do with that time, the contribution that you have, and the regrets that you don't

Chace & Helen:

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Tex:

it, it, yeah, I, I just feel like the whole narrative around business is so warped. based around a survivorship bias of a few weird eccentric geniuses in winner take all markets like Facebook, social media, you know what I mean? Like it's not that at all. There's actually a lot of people, normal people, who just want to do a really good job helping other people, and build a career, a meaningful career, and potentially a vehicle for wealth out of that. That's the majority of what business actually is. All the rest of it's just shiny. a story. It's a Hollywood

Chace & Helen:

it's a Hollywood story, so it forces you to redefine what success actually is, what that looks like. And you can take some really, you can see some really simple businesses that are critical for our community. You think, Oh, why would you want to do something like that? Could be the most simple idea though. It's serving, serving people, serving community, serving a gap and a purpose. You go and look at Nessence, so yeah.

Tex:

Now, something I want to do a better job of specifically for our community and for anyone that's listening to this podcast as well, to get it, to make sure that we're really growing and using the social capital that's involved in our network and community. So I would love to ask you guys, what is the, What are you guys looking for next? What could help you keep growing your business, your enterprise, so that you can make this contribution in the community?

Chace & Helen:

I guess we're looking, uh, probably initially exposure. We'd love to get some, a few more people through the doors. So I've got a clinic set up on Packingham Street down in Geelong West. Good day, good day studio. But also, you know, you're probably looking for other people, maybe in the community or outside the community that maybe share our thought processes and maybe would came to, to reach out and get in contact with us, whether they think that can maybe be of help or maybe like to work alongside us, like we're really Yeah, I think we're looking for, for team members. Again, we're, we're, we're open to people who would think different, differently, who want to just have a chat to us about, you know, setting up something new and different, I think, you know.

Tex:

And you mean like, uh, a new space, where you sort of go, let's get the right kind of people in under the hood, not necessarily another Osseo, but adjacent, adjacent sort of partners,

Chace & Helen:

Yeah, and it could, and it could be an osteo, it could be a myo, it could be a doctor, a nurse. I think they're all different different clinicians that we're looking for. Cause if the one thing we know about our life, and I think this applies more than ever to health is that often it's a team approach and we want to have the best, the best team serving different elements of, of your life in terms of a wellness, well, a whole wellness experience. So yeah, we're looking for people who share that.

Tex:

Love it. there's a bunch of people in the community that fit that mold, some of them are local, some of them aren't local, but they'll be really good advice and there's going to be more opportunities to in the upcoming days with the new delivery model to be able to connect with these folks, so I'll make sure that that

Chace & Helen:

We're super excited. The community is such like a great, a great resource. And I think, yeah, we're, we're super keen to be involved, you know, where there's just so much potential there.

Tex:

Yeah, there is. Guys, thank you so much for coming on and sharing a bit about, uh, where you're up to and where you're headed, and can't wait to do this again in another year or two and see where things have

Chace & Helen:

Thank you. Thanks for having us. It's been fun as usual. See ya.

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