Steve and Santina | The 'Cheat Code' for Making Positive Change Stick

Steve and Santina spent 15 years grinding away in stable but unfulfilling careers, stuck in the messy middle of life—long commutes, stressing about debt, and little time for what really mattered. 

Fast forward just one year, and they’ve completely flipped the script:

✅ Both landed dream jobs that align with their values and lifestyle
✅ Eliminated the need for a second job while making faster financial progress
✅ Cut their work stress dramatically while accelerating their financial freedom by a decade

How did they do it? In this episode, they break down the exact steps they took to shift their mindset, manage change, and build a life they love—without waiting for a mythical "FIRE" number.

Inside this episode:
💥 The critical first move they made that set everything in motion
🔄 How Steve, a change management expert, applied his own strategies to their finances
⚡ The framework that helped them navigate fear and uncertainty with confidence
💰 Why their financial progress exploded after they stopped obsessing over money

If you feel stuck in the grind and want real financial transformation, this episode is your blueprint. Listen now! 🎧

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Transcript

0:29

Welcome back to The Money Miner Podcast. This is Terry. A few months back, I jumped into a call with a guy who was clearly really smart. He had read all the books and loved talking about money and he knew his stuff as well. But he admitted to me that he wasn't happy. He thought he needed a better strategy and he wanted to speed things up a lot more. He wanted to know how we could show him more advanced strategies to accelerate his progress. And he was obsessed with the idea of retiring early and constantly just compared himself to folks who had already achieved fire. And so we went through his situation and look, he was very organized with his money and very disciplined. The problem wasn't discipline or focus or organization, none of those things. The problem as I saw it was that every cent was optimized towards a very narrowly defined long term financial outcome that had very little to do with freedom and more about security. It also wasn't really about wealth, it was more about money. And so the problem that I can see is that he was feeling like a failure every day until he got there because of the way he had defined success. And so I asked him, what's the point of quitting work? And when I asked him this, he actually looks a bit angry. And so he goes, mate, isn't it obvious? Working for somebody else sucks. So I explained to him that his measure of success was far too narrow and I talked to him about Goodhart's Law, which is the idea that when a measure becomes the target, it ceases to be a good measure. The target for him wasn't quitting. The target was quitting. Getting out of work that he hated. That is the reason why he wanted to quit. And for me, I could see, well, if you could actually fix the work situation, then you kind of fix everything. You don't need to get to some sort of mythical, far off financial number, to be able to achieve that. You can achieve that much sooner. So I explained that to him in terms of the way he was measuring success and what it was about, and just sort of talk to him about why he felt miserable about this sort of situation. he challenged me, he said, well, If you're telling me that my measure is too narrow and too defined, like what do you think it is? What do you think my measure of success is? Because I actually didn't say what it was. And I said, you're right, you didn't say what it was. Here's what I think you think it is. I think you think that success is the day when your passive income exceeds your expenses. And he nodded, he said, yeah, that's right. And I said, what's wrong with that? And I said, well, there's nothing wrong with it. It's just a really hard way to live. And I went on and said, look, money gets to tell you when you can stop doing what you hate. So no matter how much progress you make and no matter how big the number looks in your bank account, you are still going to feel like you're working hard for money. And that's not really a healthy relationship to set up with money. Why don't you invest some time and money in finding work that you don't ever want to quit? Okay. Bye. You could actually achieve what your real objective is much sooner. You could be getting out of work that you hate much sooner. You don't have to narrowly define it as this far off mythical number. This financial independence target, right? Then every dollar that you earn, save, and invest, if you're working in that job, the job that you don't want to quit, that would be a bonus. And now you're going to feel freedom whilst you achieve financial security. And that's what you want from money. And he kind of nodded, and then I could tell it didn't quite land with him. And he just went straight back to ask me about advanced strategies. So in the end, I said, look, you're probably not going to enjoy our process. because it is a little bit broader than just this, this narrow number. The numbers are part of it, but it can't be all of it. So I think philosophically, I think you'll struggle with our approach. And it kind of made me think, right, as humans we have this really funny relationship to change. We might want things to change, but we will resist the process of change itself. And so the big question is, how can we move through the fear, the uncertainty, the doubt that might stop us from making big changes, and how do we make those changes happen? So in this episode, I'm gonna share a really good example of a young couple that did just that over the last 12 months. Steven Santina wanted things to change when they came to us 12 months ago that we were running really hard, stuck in that messy middle part of life, working harder and harder. Just trying to make some progress, but they've been in the same jobs for 15 years and Steve had even taken on a second job to try to pay down their mortgage faster. And fast forward 12 months, things for them look completely different. They both found jobs that they love. They're living a lifestyle that doesn't require extra work and extra time to getting to and from work and they've accelerated their financial progress by at least a decade based on the decisions and the moves that they've made. And so in this conversation, they take us through their process and they discuss how they let go of what they knew and work together towards what they actually wanted. And here's what's cool about this. Steve is actually a change manager and he's an expert in decoding the process of managing what is happening when we're moving through change. And so at different times in this conversation, I asked him to talk through what is happening and the different stages of change as they were moving through it. And so he references a really well known model that explains how people move through change. It is called the ADKAR model And it comes from a guy called Jeff Hyatt, who was the founder of a company called Prosky. And in that company, they studied how people deal with change. And they came up with these five steps to make it easier. So as you're listening through this conversation, you're going to hear Steve reference these steps at different stages of the discussion. So the first one is awareness. So we need to know what the change is and why it's happening. The second one is desire. We need to decide that we want to make change happen. The third step is knowledge. We learn what we need to do or know to be able to make the change work. The fourth step then is ability. So after learning what we need to know, we actually have to put these things into practice and do the new thing. And the fifth and final step is reinforcement. So we keep it going. So we don't slip back into doing things the old way. So basically ADKAR helps people understand and accept change step by step. And I think this is a really good example of A couple doing this really well, very consciously, very deliberately, and what it can mean for your life, and more specifically, your money life. these guys picked up the money mapping method like almost no one we've ever seen, and they've benefited from it so much. The process you've just listened to in the Escape Plan series, they went through every single step of this, and I think you'll agree that in a 12 month period, It's pretty amazing what you can accomplish. So with that said, let's jump into this episode and I hope you enjoy.

Terry: 6:15

Steven Santina, welcome to the show. Cannot wait to have this conversation with you guys.

Steve & Santina: 6:19

looking forward to it.

Terry: 6:21

Look, I pulled up a bunch of our stuff and it's really funny because It's almost a year to the day. It was October 10, 2023 that we did that first session together. And you guys have been on quite a ride in that last 12 months, haven't you?

Steve & Santina: 6:35

Yeah, Huge ride and that it's only been 12 months, it feels like five years, but we've achieved lots and it's been lots of fun along the journey. I can't wait to talk about it.

Terry: 6:44

that's what I'm really keen to jump into because if I could frame up this conversation and really thinking about, what you guys have been really good exemplars for, it's how you're moving through change. And ironically, Steve, this is your expertise. So I thought this would be a really good way to think through and talk about how do you deal with that status quo bias, right? Like I know what is, I would rather a different result, but I don't want to take any different actions to be able to get it. So what I really love to talk about is your experience between the two of you guys around three things. We had changes around career, we had changes around money and the way you were managing it together, and then some big changes around debt as well. So let's start with career. me back to October 10, that conversation, how you guys are feeling and what was happening for you.

Steve & Santina: 7:28

Yeah, I guess for me, we've been in careers in the 10 to 15 years really almost felt like we're in autopilot for a long period of time. So, had been able to progress into higher positions, but really wasn't challenging ourselves or aligning to our purpose as well. So we're both very values driven in our approach to life. And we've got a beautiful eldest daughter who has a cognitive disability. So, we were really working in this space out of the scene, but in our work and anything to that kind of space. So I think for both me and Santina we went, Hey, we're in this position. We've just come out of having very young children and. Our beautiful youngest was four. So we're starting to breathe again. We went, Hey, this is our time to jump in and get that purpose back into our career and see what we could do with our careers from there.

Terry: 8:16

It's like coming out of a whirlwind, isn't it? That, That period when you got the young kids, that's why I'm interested too, because I think a lot of people just get stuck in that kind of grind and they don't step out of it. We do work with folks further along and they go, look, that's how we felt it, like when the kids were four. And then we turn around, they're like 12. We've just been doing the same thing for 10 years. What was it that made you guys go, no, enough's enough. This is now time for us to get on top of it and start acting on life instead of having life sort of act on us.

Steve & Santina: 8:41

Yeah, definitely. I agree. You tend to go on autopilot. You just go and go until, but I think the thing about me and Steve is we've always got that open mind to continuous learning, and we're on a journey for a while. Even before meeting up with you guys as well to commit to finding a career that has that purpose aligned with our values as well. So it doesn't happen overnight, but it's something that I think happens, whether it's something in your life or something that you go through that makes you go, okay, what's that next step or what, what should we do next? And yeah, that's how it all began. And, I think we live in a great world now with, podcasts and stuff. That's so accessible. Yeah. To everyone. So you just, you pick up things, you listen to things and you learn anything. So, yeah,

Terry: 9:23

Well, it came up in the conversation and obviously money was the sort of the center point of the conversation at first. But then career really did come into focus So let's just see how these two were going together. So, When it came to money, what was it that was making you guys think about money first, as the first thing you wanted to get sorted?

Steve & Santina: 9:41

Yeah, I think for me, money and career are hand in hand, but also I binged the podcast before we hooked up and got in contact with you. And the mindset part was probably the bit that jumped out to me the most. It was like, this isn't just another spreadsheet or another barefoot investor or whatever you're looking at in that space. It It was another methodology that was built around your mindset towards life and how you were really trying to thrive and get ahead. And that really aligned to my personality type and Santana's personality type where we want the best for us. We want to be sitting on a beach in Greece and Mykonos and all those places in 20, 30 years time. Retired early, but we also want the legacy for our family into many decades and so we just aligned that mindset with money. And then career is obviously the driver that pays us the money and it all jumped in together in that space. And I think another thing, that your program did for me, because I probably didn't have a great psychology around money and things like that. So it really made me make a conscious effort to making those value decision, like financial decisions with money as well. So, you really brought out the value side of money to me and how to spend that for what's aligned to your values, if that makes sense. So, yeah, the program was excellent for that.

Terry: 10:52

Yeah, I and one thing I'd say about you guys is you're actually pretty self aware. you were really good at voicing, Those concerns and sort of like observing them and saying you know, I'm not sure my Approach with money is the most constructive approach. I get really constrained. I'm literally worried and that's why I think this has been such a an epic transformation over a 12 month period Centena for you, that was a real the mentality around money. And I think Steve, for you, that the mechanics. Like you would really quite in spreadsheet and you had everything kind of itemized and like, you'd built this up and there's like a whole Ikea effect that comes with like, I've got my thing and there's a letting go that to happen from both of you. So. Did you have discussions about that? And if so, how do you apply what you know from a change point of view and how how you move through that?

Steve & Santina: 11:34

So I guess for me, you're correct in that space. Santana had this mindset towards money. I felt like I had this spreadsheet, which provided that security, but I was sitting there. Surely there's something better than sitting in a spreadsheet for the rest of our days So, kind of moved through that and for me, going back to the kind of change space. we really had to go through the steps of individual change and have that firstly awareness that there was a problem here that, Hey, we're kind of sitting in this real. Easy space where we run a spreadsheet, but a bit yin and yang in our our spending ability sometimes if I'm out and we're, hey, let's get another round of drinks. I'm like, yeah, well, hey, there's money in the account. Let's just spend it on drinks. Whereas Santana's a little bit more like, hmm, okay, well, is our bigger purpose in this space? then going back to that individual change, the awareness and desire piece that we picked up where there was an awareness, The need to change. The desire was what's in it for us and the what's in it for us is. this horizon piece, which is. We can continue to have the extra beers or go spend whatever money we wanted to and really not manage our money in a meaningful way, but will that help us in our landscape and a horizon for the future? And I think once we both bought into that, it was just really then moving into that next steps of building our knowledge base. And then building our ability to be able to implement, which is what your program did. amazingly. So being able to understand why I need to change. but also how to change. And then the I've now got the skills and techniques to be able to implement that change. So. Yeah, there was a lot of work that we had to go through in that space, and yeah, the best part of it was it was in chunk sizes. You could break it up, we could then have our chats, we created a real kind of routine where we'd come down, we'd watch an individual, we'd sit, we'd chat, and we'd almost build that knowledge and ability together as we moved through the program, which was really cool. when Steve mentioned that, you just get caught up in the moment, with spending sometimes, and then because there was no plan, we had the spreadsheet, which we would record things and try and keep with him. But what I loved about your program was it just makes that conscious decision to, decide what you'd like to spend that money on, you know, and then when you're going out to do that, things were like, well, we've budgeted for this. You're not worried, going, what about these bills? yeah, no, it's really good. That

Terry: 13:51

it is very similar to your scenario where the person who made the spreadsheet owns the spreadsheet, the other person's like, what's the go with the spreadsheet?

Steve & Santina: 13:59

literally awesome.

Terry: 14:01

and then, you know, what we're discussing and the way we do it is very different. So how would you describe this For somebody who is listening and going like, I've got the spreadsheet, it's working fine. How would you describe why it's so different and what makes it different?

Steve & Santina: 14:12

If I could jump in, again, as you explained, it's one person generally managing it, and I come in And go, hang on, what, what about this? You know? And then because I'm not across it a hundred percent and then have to re explain. So it's just, it's probably the admin load to manage that, spreadsheet. And I think on top of that, we're a young family with. A lot of mental load outside of the financial space. So Santina would rock off and go, Hey, what's this line on your spreadsheet? I go, I've got this babe. Don't stress about it. It's good. I need to understand this. This is our money. And I'm going, Shit, I don't have enough time for this. Like,

Terry: 14:44

spent all this time putting the thing together and yeah.

Steve & Santina: 14:46

Oh yeah. this is perfect. It's like when the boss comes in and goes, what's this line, man? You go, just trust me. It's going to be good. It's all good. It's like going to the footy, but the goal umpire is the only one that knows the score, There's a reason why there's a scoreboard up on the side of the footy field, because we all want to know the score. And that for me is what your program does is by creating a very visible, open program that as a couple, we were able to go at any stage, both of us would open our accounts, we got the natural scorecard through the account structure and we went bang, we know where we're at, what we need to be doing and we're on the same path together but it really removed those conversations about what's happening here and here and it was more, well, how do we spend this money to then get to that vision up there?

Terry: 15:26

Yeah. Have you guys heard of that concept communication overhead?

Steve & Santina: 15:28

Not in a lot of detail.

Terry: 15:30

It's just the idea that, Like, you have to over communicate things And I think that's what you're getting at, right? you're actually having all these, getting on the same page conversations versus, if you're on the same page, the quality of the conversation, the quality of the interaction, the quality of the decision is much higher because you're not spending all your tickets trying to figure what the fuck you're each talking about.

Steve & Santina: 15:48

Yes. Yeah. Definitely. I think that really has come out as we've started to progress with our financial plans as well. There's this, full understanding of where we're in, in a shared position. And then when one of us is making a move we're we're talking to a mortgage broker or we're talking to a planner or something like that, we're able to pull the trigger knowing where we've had these conversations that are really strategic and seamless.'cause we're not down in the weeds anymore. Talking about, Hey, why did we spend 1199 at Optus when the Eagles won? Or sorry, I grabbed back from the toilet, like. Spreadsheets out. It's over.

Terry: 16:20

like majoring in the minors, isn't it? It's just like, that's not going to move the needle right there. And it's interesting too, like I was having a conversation just yesterday couple that's going to be starting next week. And this guy, he couldn't really get his head around it. I said, look. The conversation where you're the money police, where your partner comes to you and says, Hey, can we spend money on this? you don't want to have that conversation anymore, He's like, no, no, I'm like, because of the way it's all set up here, you've actually created this scenario you've taken responsibility but you've created an information silo. There's now a power differential that happens between the two of you. And so she's treating you like the, like, a parent, can I have some money to be able to do this? And that's, that doesn't really fly anymore all those norms all those norms around you, know, the idea I make the money and manage And make the decisions And you just do all the spending. That to me is, it's such a problem now in relationships that I see.

Steve & Santina: 17:06

old school, uh, Yeah.

Terry: 17:08

Yeah. and we don't even realize that we're swimming in these assumptions and that we kind of picked them up that's what I love to see is when those silos break down and you can have a much higher quality interaction around your money, Look, this can actually be a lot of fun, believe it or not. I know that hasn't been your experience, but it absolutely can be. And he's like, oh wow.

Steve & Santina: 17:25

And it is a huge amount of fun. So like, we're off to the Gold Coast in a few weeks, just the two of us kids are with grandparents and we've just had this great time knowing that we're both in this shared space in terms of our spending and our saving that this will be a guilt free holiday, which we'll remember forever.

Terry: 17:40

I'm looking at your life by design canvas now, and one of the post it notes was couples holidays. And then I got your survey through a week or so ago, and you're like, we've taken four. couple's holidays between now and then. I know that that was one of the most important things just because you are giving so much at this period. And I think you guys have done such a great job of just making sure you keep investing in the relationship. Is there any, has there been any sort of tips or tricks or things that you picked up

Steve & Santina: 18:03

Tips and tricks, not really, it's just engrossing yourself in the methodology is probably the key for me. We're not one toe in, one toe out, it's taking those weed conversations out we're just like, we value this in our money spending, so we won't spend money on other things that we probably don't value. Like, what are we going to remember? 10 years time. We're sitting at Anzac Day at having cans in the standing area. They're watching Jamie Elliott take an absolute hanger in front of them. Or are we down to the shops buying the extra expensive piece of meat or something for the kids like When the big W toy sale comes out, Steve wants to buy everything in there for the kids. And I'm like, no, they do not need any of

Terry: 18:40

a big one. I reckon, hey, And all that stuff, that stuff you end up giving away on Facebook or something, it's like, get this junk out of my house.

Steve & Santina: 18:47

Actually, you bring up a good point because we've actually moved the, the value decision for the girls as well. when it comes to their birthdays, we've given them that choice to do you want that experience or the toys? And they've actually moved to more experience based gifts now, because it is, it's What they value as well. So, yeah. Our 10 year old's giving up her birthday party this year with her friends so that she could go to the Wildcats, go to Hairspray the musical and then go to the cricket in summer. And like,, it's pretty cool that since we've implemented this program. That horizon thing, what are you going to remember, in 10 years time? You're going to remember, yeah, the birthday party would have been cool with your friends, but all the crappy Lego or whatever you get out of those kind of things,. Or the memory of sitting in the front row at the Wildcats during Hoopsfest and like, the smile on their face was just like, The thing that she'll remember forever, which is pretty cool. And just to add to that, one more thing is because the program that you guys did with us really made us draw out what that looks like and what we want out of it. So it was great.

Terry: 19:42

I was going to ask you about that. Have you guys ever had a conversation like that where we, we start at the start, we go with the life I design, what does it look like, have you ever documented something like that and really set it out in that way?

Steve & Santina: 19:51

wouldn't say in that way. No, I I think as most couples shoot the breeze that, Oh, you know, we want to be here at this stage and we want to see couples holidays as much possible. But I think with our previous money management, we were. Also exposed to potentially going too far the other way, which is we're booking too many couples holidays. We were doing too many things that are just overspending because we were just so wanting to spend that time together and But I think we found this real nice sweet spot where we've gone, Hey. The canvas is saying these are the things that we value the most and we continually look at that canvas and it really is aligned to our future wants And needs. And then we're directing our additional surplus the day to day bills

Terry: 20:30

Steve, you told me you were working a second job to try to pay down the mortgage as well, right?

Steve & Santina: 20:34

Yeah, I was working casually at our arena and just kind of picking some casual shifts because we had this mindset that we're going to pay our mortgage off in 10 years and then see what the money does and invest in that kind of world. And I, I quit that job basically two weeks after we started this course because I was like, we don't need that money. we've got money. We just need to make sure we're spending it in a better way. And what has that done? I'm not working till midnight shifts when Snoop Dogg's on and all that kind of stuff. So bloody, you open the door and the weed smell just the face on a Tuesday night. I'm thinking I haven't put Charlotte to bed tonight because I'm standing here opening the door for this and I'm going, Hmm, is this aligned to my values? No.

Terry: 21:13

I actually remember that moment the light switched on for you guys then too. Because I do feel like what you said there, Steve, was part of it was like, well, the spreadsheet's telling us what happened with our money but we're not really aware of what's happening in the moment. So we're actually just Trying to recoup and that's just making you work harder. So you go, we'll get a second job and it's actually the pattern that's keeping you That's to me the big unlock, isn't it? You're like, I'll get all that time back. We can actually focus on the things that matter. And let's talk about where that's taken you guys. I see probably around that sort of three to six month mark. As you go into the routine, you start learning how to do income mapping. You do forecasting. You start making bigger decisions with your life because you you're not sort of wondering when, when is the right time? You, you now know that you can figure out how to make it work. So who changed the career first? Was it you, Steve? Was it you, Centennial?

Steve & Santina: 21:56

Yeah, Santina's a and he was supposed to be first then I did it, so. I'm just not as employable as Santina, she's the super employable one.

Terry: 22:03

from what I remember, you were very well entrenched, very well respected in that environment, just really not enjoying that environment and commuting was the big problem too, right?

Steve & Santina: 22:11

It was, yeah, from our house, it was a bit further, and I really wanted to find a job that was aligned with purpose, which I did, I applied for this job and I've got it and I'm really happy now, but I did have quite a hard time initially letting go of the slight pay cut that came with it. But, you know, we worked through that as a couple, Steve was really supportive of that space. It's been the best decision. What made us comfortable with that was again, the program, one, We'd planned our money, but two, all of the kind of education that came through there, I'm sitting on summer holidays reading a book at the beach that's talking about how your salary shouldn't be the one thing that you focus on in life. It's the ongoing cost of life. So and then it took a bit of a pay cut. But she's now 10 minutes from home so there's the cost per hour of your time that you get back in your day, but also less fuel, less tire wear, all those kinds of things. So she's really probably ahead thousands of dollars, but it's only your tax slip that shows that you're behind. And that's where, It's just been such a huge mindset shifts. The more available for the kids, able to work three days a week at home with no kind of, issues in that space where state government was going the other way, it's just such a huge change in mindset for you.

Terry: 23:15

That's huge, I reckon. And it's just so indicative of if you're, if you lack the awareness of anything else, you just. focus on the most concrete thing that you can measure, and that usually is my salary. My salary is this, and if I make the salary go up, then my life is better. But not necessarily. You can, make the salary go down and improve your life, measurably. Was it your money or your life, that book? Yeah, it does a great job of actually making you think just a little bit broader and you kind of go hang on, there's all this stuff, there's all this periphery stuff that's happening around my work and it's either adding or subtracting, and what does that balance need to look like and the return that I'm looking for isn't always just the financial one, it's the life return return on life is more important than return on money you know what I mean?

Steve & Santina: 23:51

Yeah, it is a difficult decision. Like Even when I got the job, even in my resignation, it still took me a couple months in my new job to really feel comfortable with it. Cause I don't know, it was just such a huge thing for me to get my head around. It's something that we're ingrained in from a young age we get categorized even when you do a survey. What's your salary range? What's this range? it's literally all about how much you bring into the bank, and it's probably the least important thing in terms of lifestyle overall. Yes, you need. And income to be able to come in and be comfortable. But you also need to be holistically present The kids have had a better and more present family since We've both moved. we've been more available. We spent more time together as a family and, we're happier in our careers because we've got that purpose as well. We wake up each day and it's not like, shit, I really don't want to go to work today. It's, I cannot wait to get to this building right now because I'm about to do what I love and make a difference.

Terry: 24:44

This is the irony of the situation. and you were working government job for how long?

Steve & Santina: 24:47

15 years. Both 15. That's where we met. we met at transport.

Terry: 24:51

Do remember this kind of like this moment in that first conversation where you're like, no, this has got to be the thing. Talk me through that journey. And then where you've ended up with a new job.

Steve & Santina: 24:59

so, yeah, we had that conversation and I went I'm literally just going from project to project where does the purpose of those projects really align with what I want to achieve in terms of the impact I make on our community. So state government, you work for state because you're generally thinking that you're making the state that you live in a better place. And yes, there was some projects that I was working on which achieved that, but I think there was more that I could do in that space. So that was a good realization. So that was the awareness the safety piece was big as well I'd worked in government for a long period of time. I knew all the government ins outs. I'd worked in the AR teams. I knew our agreement backwards. How to make the system work best for our family. And I went, you go private and you're pretty much on clock 24 7 and I didn't know if I was ready for that with the family pace, but driving towards that purpose was key and and I ended up leaving July, Very happy ever since. So yeah, once I found that place, it was really going through that knowledgeability piece on how do I go through this change and make sure that I value this 15 year career with some really special people that I really enjoyed, but then also moving forward to the future on how can I then really jump out and make that purpose in the community, but also. continue to enhance my skill set which was probably a big focus for me as well. And giving up on the extra job that time has been able to be used one for our family, one for our relationship, but for me as well to continue my self development It's no coincidence that since doing that, there's been so many significant changes in our personal space, as well.

Terry: 26:21

And there was an offsetting there too, wasn't it Cause you ended up getting paid a bit more. Centina was less than your more. So it just sort of netted out pretty normal.

Steve & Santina: 26:27

Yeah. It did. Almost to the dollar, I think it would have gone to almost. But then since being in there, I've now been able to almost put the foot on the accelerator and really progress in that space where there's some doors opening that are exciting for the future in that career space as well. And I'm now in Non for profit in Asian disability care. So my projects make significant change to WA's community And I can really see that rolled out. So provider I'm with is about to open the first younger onset dementia supported living house in WA all these kind of things that really mean things in the community for WI, which is really cool. Santana's one is, she's out helping the kids the NDIS system and, obviously having Alesha has been so big as well. So, yeah, I'm a planner for the NDIS. So, People either love us or hate us, but my particular role I find very purposeful childhood space and I think with having our daughter with a disability as well, I just, the families that I talk to, I can very much connect with a lot of them. And that's the most purposeful that I feel about the job because I get to give back or share, you know, I can really understand what they're going through and things like that so she's the pure definition of a change champion So she's someone who's been through it and a huge role model for that kind of group there. So it's great.

Terry: 27:42

It is hard. we're going through it at the moment with our son, Smith, There's months where we've spent, you know, thousands of dollars and I don't even see an outcome. I'm like, what did we do that for? I know you had some curveballs as well in terms of diagnosis around adhd.

Steve & Santina: 27:54

Yeah, Alicia's, you're the star on that one. Yeah, she's got developmental language disorder, so it's a lifelong, disorder So, even though when you speak to Alicia, her speech sounds clear, comprehending spoken English is something that she really struggles with. So, she's well below peers of her age So, it's quite hidden And it was something when we got the diagnosis, we were like, we just never had heard of it,. It's not a physical disability that you can notice it straight away. So it's until you really understand it and know her as a person, because she's also got a lot of masking traits as well. So she's. It's like, it's a bit of the autism side where it's repetitive or she'll pick up cues and know exactly when to say it, but if you had to ask her what it actually meant, she wouldn't generally understand it. The NDIS program was hard work. It was three reviews to get her in and, three appeals and lots of, Ended up being almost a legislative review. So, Santana being in there, being able to make difference and impact on families lives, just even being a support through the process is just such a huge purpose back into our community as well.

Terry: 28:57

one of the big achievements that you listed was, we didn't drop our lifestyle even though rates were increasing and we're dealing with this kind of thing, how did you respond to that? Because I know for me, I would just stress a whole lot more about it and I'd be anchoring on just like, look how much we're spending in this sort of space, versus being able to zoom out and sort of go, look, in the grand scheme of things, it's going to be a good thing. we just have to kind of push through this part of it.

Steve & Santina: 29:16

Just more I really needed to say that the holistic view to make that part feel better for me. Cause again, if will monies going out and then coming in, it's like, well, hang on. How's that going to balance it? But now I'm going to have a look at that holistically. play. So it did help for me. Yeah, and then I think with my personality type, I'm, okay, it's happened now, let's move forward and let's just keep moving. It's like, okay, we've spent the money. Let's make sure strategically we best value out of that money and push as hard as we can to get the outcome we want. So now that we're in this game,, that money was very well used. And we've got scheme money to assist us in helping Alicia, which would save us across her lifetime. Significant, Money that it's the down payment on getting in early and it's like anything that you're investing in it's like By putting the investment in or the deposit in early so that you get the wins back later. So compounding

Terry: 30:02

It's interesting for me because I always think about like just always being able to zoom out, you get pulled right into that cost and you kind of go, well, that just threw our whole month off, but then you just keep, I just keep zooming out, like the way we frame it as the same, this is an investment, we're really just doing that sort of fuck around, find out phase to sort of figure out how do we best get help, get support if we need it,

Steve & Santina: 30:21

and I think the other thing is you just don't ever expect that to happen to you. You have kids because you just, everything's going to be fine. Then you just sail along and then it's just a bit of a challenging world to have to adapt to and then get used to that And we went through a bit of a process, we went through one section that wasn't actually accurate. So we went through some different testing. So it took us a few times to sort of Get the right diagnosis, it cost us quite a lot of money in that, turn. And I think for, I think for us, that's the importance of making sure that our money is managed well is that we are in a financial position at any stage that if something happened to someone that we love and care for, we make that move instantly without the thought of how we're going to afford this. I remember listening to a podcast and you had one of your listeners who had a son who was in hospital and it wasn't a worry about how we're going to get paid for work and stuff. It's I need to be there for that person. And I was like, that is what I want for my financial situation that at no point do we sacrifice. Our kids, our family, each other's well being because we have to worry about going to work that day or where's the next meal coming from kind of thing. So that's why we get super motivated in terms of what we're doing in that space and

Terry: 31:24

Yeah.

Steve & Santina: 31:25

foot on the accelerator probably bit quicker than what Santana's ready. So, uh. We've, we've actually got it. Our personalities do end up quite well though, cause, you Right. Stable, you I'd run away with it way too quickly if there wasn't Santina counteracting the asking the questions. That's probably the better way to explain it. On steroids, you'll just go like a hundred miles and I'm like, hang on, just backing up a little bit.

Terry: 31:46

That's so good.

Steve & Santina: 31:46

I was going to say, I don't, I don't feel like risk adverse because I feel Good If I do come across in that way, it's just because I don't have the knowledge or Whereas once I have that, I take probably a bit longer to sort of get my head around things, but then cause Steve's on steroids, trying to do everything. So it just brings us back into medium where

Terry: 32:03

here.

Steve & Santina: 32:04

we're both able to move with it.

Terry: 32:13

will listen to conversations like this and they just we all make the assumption It's all a straight line. It's all smooth sailing You never deal with any challenges, but you guys have done this amongst all those challenges taking those holidays made these big changes career wise I want to talk about Some of the more of the financial achievements as well. So talk to us about the ETF and talk to us about investment property number one.

Steve & Santina: 32:32

Wow. Big 12 months. So October last year, we're trying to pay the mortgage off and then November, we're getting re evaluated and, seeing if we can get some spare capital out of the line to invest in some shares. So we've invested in shares. We've got a healthy kind of, I think I'll never forget. And I was saying to you yesterday, Terry, that I was looking at my photos from 12 months ago and I'd say 80 percent of October's photos were screenshots of your course while I'm at the gym sending it to Santino and I'm like, look at this graph, and look at this graph, look at what you do here, and it's like, yeah, babe, I'll watch it later, like stop being on your steroids over there and just calm down a bit, but it's like the horse that bolts a bit too quick, but that's okay, yeah, so over the last, 12 months we got that kind of capital out of our loan and was able to, get some shares. So we've got a healthy dose of shares that will allow us to really tick over. So we've used that capital well, but the debt series that you guys did over Christmas was the real game changer for us and, listening to all the different kind of perspectives on that and how obviously leveraging your debt position to be able to then really purposeful with that moving forward So yeah. We moved forward with that one nice and quickly, and we're in the process of buying investment property number one at the moment, so we're looking at buying over your way mate and Vic, and we'll see if we can buy it early next year.

Terry: 33:48

Oh, everybody rushes out of it. You guys rush in.

Steve & Santina: 33:51

yeah, so no, that whole process, I think it was the real mindset towards money for both of us for a long period of time that. we've been in a fortunate position that WA Property has had its upswing at the time it has, so we've got strong capital position in our loan based on the evaluations that are being done at the moment, but it's using that to our advantage as well, and

Terry: 34:11

Yeah.

Steve & Santina: 34:12

90 percent of the mindset shift, especially

Terry: 34:14

going to say. Yeah. Let's not gloss over this because this like, this is not even the same couple. This is not the same conversation we're having 12 months ago. Yeah. 12 months ago, your main query was how do we just get a little bit more on the loan, so that we can just pay down faster and just not have a mortgage

Steve & Santina: 34:29

We had a little countdown. We had a countdown for. That was the that was the question.

Terry: 34:35

how do we pay it off quicker? And I was like, yeah.

Steve & Santina: 34:38

Hey, like, well, if you go into this

Terry: 34:41

I'm not going to address that over that question. But it is, it's quite a shift, isn't it? And debt series was huge.

Steve & Santina: 34:48

huge shift

Terry: 34:49

Yeah, tell us about it from your point of view, Santino. So you just mentioned before, it's not a risk tolerance thing, it's an education understanding thing. what did you need to understand and what, what was it that clicked for you where you were like, Oh, hang on, this is actually not the way to think about it. Maybe there's another way to think about

Steve & Santina: 35:04

Yeah, I think having an open mind, you certainly need, if you don't have that, if you're not comfortable with change, you definitely have to get around all that first debt was just something that you just didn't want or you wanted to get rid of. you had to certainly unlearn a lot. we were just saying, we had this little countdown of trying to pay off our, primary residence paying that loan off the double job and things like that. But yeah, now it's gone the complete opposite just being comfortable with it and learning, all different bits and pieces.

Terry: 35:30

Can you put your finger on one information point?

Steve & Santina: 35:33

It was probably, you know, looking at what we wanted in our life and then what we needed to do to get there and what the decisions that we had to make, that's probably when it was, because it was like, well, still go on this path and still be okay. But then if you want this sort of at the end, this is what you're going to need to do. So it's, it really is the education point it's almost like the secret formula that you figure out that works in pretty much every aspect of your life. Like you can just put that formula in everything financial friendships, Jim, you know, keeping fit and healthy and things like that. So, yeah,

Terry: 36:05

what is the formula? Someone's hearing that, they're like, what do you mean by the formula?

Steve & Santina: 36:09

it's getting comfortable with like making those small decisions that, you know, Don't always seem exciting, but in the long term it's going to pay off immensely, you know? Like it's a bit like with kids as well. We have so amazing moments, but sometimes it's, it's absolutely exhausting and tiring. we both work full time and there's moments throughout that week where you just go, Oh my God. But then we have amazing moments when we'll go on amazing holidays and that was so freaking worth it. So it's, it's that those everyday decisions that you make. To end up, yeah, great spot down the truck. I think Santana's being very gracious. And when she talks about her mindset shift, like, debt pre this course was like trying to sell off one of the children, almost trying to sign a loan document would be like saying, Hey, Alicia, Chiara or Charlotte, we are now going to sell you and you live with another. So, and to unlearn that was such a huge process for Santina. So she's been very gracious in the change that she's made the awareness and desire was the two major kind of pieces for her. The moment for me that ticked it in was the part of the program where it says, saving money in an account, bank account will never get you ahead of inflation. And I sat there looking at that graph, and I remember I was at the gym on the bike, and I'm looking at it going, That is so logical. How have I not picked this up before? So like, I'm like, how am I 35 years old just realizing this after doing an economics degree 15 years ago?

Terry: 37:40

mate, I think that's a, that is, An indictment on economics. Right? What are you actually learning?

Steve & Santina: 37:47

piece, that piece right there, it was the perfect lead into, so if you do want to get ahead of inflation, you need to Take very educated and well informed, there's data for hundreds of years back on how the share market and the property market in Australia have worked. There's all this information you can then go build around that so that then you can feel comfortable and that's that awareness desire. The desire was what's in it for me? So what's in it for me is, I cannot achieve what I wanted to achieve by having all our money paid off on the home loan and then putting it into a high interest savings account or something like that, the shares felt very risky to me. But once I went through the education process, I remember reading it Yeah. It's on here. The thornhill book we're always trying to grow as business because we want to get more innovative and we want to be better. Investing in that is just makes complete logical sense. And then if you go to housing, what is the one thing that every person in Australia needs to be able to feel safe? It's a house over their head. So I think for me, that was mine, the knowledge. And then the ability was like, okay, let's jump into this debt conversation. And what do I need to actually do to really get into that space? And then. Going over to Santana was a great second test for me to go, am I able to explain what's up here to the person who I love? we built Santana's awareness of what she needed, we were going to end up and where we could end up with this kind of space. The desire was there in a heartbeat and we just went straight into knowledge. When Santana's talking about the secret formula, for me it's not just the ability to do X, Y, Z and that equals the outcome that you want, it's the the mindset and the tools that you're continually addling I know that if I want to achieve anything in life, I need to go through a change. I need to have an accountability partner, someone that helps me through that. And then I need to obviously build some knowledge at some space across that. I like to think that I'm capable of anything in life I want to find out about. I could go research it. We're in the most technological space in the world right now where we could go research into things and then the secret formula is pulling that all together into something that we can add some meat on the bone and chuck into space,

Terry: 39:45

I think you guys are good at doing that as well, like doing the learning, but also getting support through the, knowledge, and ability stage. You can get stuck in the learning part of it, and just keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going. But you guys don't do that. So, at what point do you sort of go, okay, cool, so we know enough not to be ignorant now. Now it's time to actually go and work with somebody who knows and can take us from knowledge to ability.

Steve & Santina: 40:07

It is a really good question. And I think for me, if I'm working with someone who is an expert in the field, I don't need to feel anxious or embarrassed if I don't know what information they do. So It's the vulnerability is also part of the secret recipe as well. You need to be vulnerable. and also try and take that holistic view, someone pays my salary because I'm an expert in change management. So why would I then go? To an account and try and figure out how to do their role or lawyer. I could, I'm sure I could read up all the legal books one day. But I get paid a decent cost per hour to be a change manager, and I'll go pay someone else to be an accountant or a lawyer. Normally from an individual point of view, we don't have the tools and the systems built around us as well, which an expert would have. So,,

Terry: 40:52

that's I think, the big thing, right? Tools. An expert has tools because the tools are the outgrowth of doing and doing and doing and doing and doing and figuring out better ways to do. You'll actually have to end up with a tool and if you don't have a tool, then you're probably not there yet.

Steve & Santina: 41:05

and us doing the course saved us time to get that tool sooner. So I wouldn't know where to find the info.

Terry: 41:12

I mean, I say to people now, look, reality is we've actually spent five years learning why what's out there doesn't work. That's the five years you don't have to spend. We've also spent over 150 grand to build the tool that you get on day one. You don't even have to figure out how to build the tool. You don't have to figure out what works. You just get to be able to use it.

Steve & Santina: 41:28

Money, money pays for knowledge. And I think that's how we looked at your, your program as well. It's like, we're paying for this knowledge to, to learn in a shorter period of time so that we can jump on this, this ride

Terry: 41:39

It just speeds everything up. Like, I'm watching you guys now move to this next part, and and you're not going slow, you're actually going pretty, pretty fast.

Steve & Santina: 41:46

Again, that consolidated service model means that I don't have to re explain things. So, if you then go back to how Santana, though she dropped her salary, but has so much more time, I have more time because I don't need to re explain things three times to three different people. And that was the same thing with you guys as well. It's like, let's go into this system because we one add into a community of best practice, but you guys have got the tools and the connections that hook us up with people as we go through.

Terry: 42:12

Yeah, yeah, it's massive. There's one more thing I want to discuss here, and it's an email that you sent us. A month or so ago, and you talked about this other big transformation that you've had, and it's, it's a pattern that I keep seeing, and I'm just interested to hear from your point of view how and where these things are linked

Steve & Santina: 42:26

Yeah.

Terry: 42:27

to us through the physical transformation.

Steve & Santina: 42:28

Yeah. So I've lost 26 kilos since this time last year. I'm kind of just pulling up stumps a little bit to go, Hey, financially, we're kind of just head down, just continuing with the same thing. Fitness wise, I was having some back pain and stuff like that. I saw a surgeon, I thought I'd done a back injury. And he's like, dude, you're just carrying more weight on a car than the car's able to carry. And it was like, Ooh, there's some big changes needed in this space for both, live and finance so we jumped into the finance line first because we'd obviously had the recommendation of the podcast, been listening to that for a period of time. A big one for me that you could hear that you guys weren't just, here's the tools and you guys got to use the tools and you'll be fine. It was, we need to change your mindset towards money before you could even use our tools because without the mindset, you're just going to not use the tools in an ongoing way. Right. That really resonated to me because yeah over many years done different weight loss programs and been to gyms and stuff like that. I went into your program and really like the model of learning accountability through catching up with you, Orion, then go do more learning, catch up and implement in that space. I then went and implemented that same model in my personal space when I found a mate of ours who does some accountability coaching. So paying him a cost per hour to go, Hey, I'm setting these goals of calories in how many workouts per week with how many calories I need to burn in a workout. Yeah. And I need you to keep me accountable in that space and we work through that and we reset goals and we relearn different strategies so, yeah, 26 kilos gone in a year, but I'm running a half marathon tomorrow as well. So, yeah, yeah,

Terry: 44:05

Oh mate, how good's that? the reason I bring it up is because you're probably the third person who's made a significant change physically. if you follow us on Instagram, go to our Instagram page and you're going to see Mitch's photo. Mitch has lost 25 kilos, I don't know, somewhere between that, but he looks like fucking He Man now. in really good nick. He's probably reversed his chronological age by at least 10 years, I reckon. the reason I'm interested in is because we've seen this happen on a few different occasions. We've also seen people quit smoking and I'm just interested from a change point of view, I think a big part of this is because when you do that life by design you're effectively future pacing yourself. And you're developing a relationship with future you. And so you get to kind of sit in that future and look back and go, what do I feel about that? And so there is all this research that shows that the higher the degree of empathy you have for the future version of yourself, the more your decisions in the present reflect their wealth, their wellbeing. Um, do you feel like

Steve & Santina: 44:57

hugely. hugely. And yeah, upon reflection. Yeah, we're creating these huge lifelong dreams, and your body is your one tool to get to that, and what if I'm polluting that body to a point where I don't make it to that period of time? So financially we hit the goal, we've done everything we wanted to do to be able to sit on the beach in Mykonos, or I think the one that's on the board is have the really lovely glass of red wine overlooking the Colosseum in Rome and stuff like But I, I've died of a heart attack at 45 because I haven't looked after the machine or something like that it's definitely the future self component and that kind of mortality realisation to go, these two things aren't separate, they're aligned and I think I said to you on the phone yesterday, I was drinking two half liter cans a day of energy drink and 242 days that I have energy drink.

Terry: 45:44

Do you know what, confession for you, when you said that to me, I was like, fuck, I reckon I'm drinking too many energy drinks. So I stopped, I haven't drank one since you said it to me, I'm like, I'm done. Because it does, like, it gets you into a, what is it? You learn psychologically that you need the thing to get a certain result. it's not a, you know, It's not necessarily a physical addiction, I don't think, as much as a psychological sort of association that you make to the thing. that's what happens, and it just keeps it, you know, the last part of that ADKAR model, which I'm keen for you to jump into before we close this out, is reinforcement. It's either working for you or it's working against you. can you just talk through that part too, because we've talked about awareness, desire, we've talked about knowledge,

Steve & Santina: 46:21

Yeah, yeah, I think before I do jump into that, I don't want to sound a little bit like a condescending kind of person as well that, you know, this has been easy and it's gone, like, you just say to the side of the camera, I've still got the Coke Zero that I want to give up is the next thing, but it's about how much can you fit into your mental load at one period of time to make that change. So it's prioritizing the changes that you need to make. And then as you've got more space, you add that money in. So we're, as I said, buying the investment property to pay for work involved in all that kind of space. It's overloading. So I don't have that at the moment, but once that's done, I want to give that up and then adding it in. So it's not

Terry: 46:54

One thing at a time.

Steve & Santina: 46:55

we've become these superhuman people it's just, we've prioritized that over other things. And there's a whole range of changes that we want to be able to do. So We still have too many beers some nights, and uh, still go to the calories every now and again, but I guess it's the intent of having that accountability to pull you back. And then the reinforcement actually cues perfectly into that. So really, once you've made the change, how do you make sure you don't regress back to the stage you were in previously? So, making sure that we've embedded a system and a process that is ongoing and we're continually checking in with it. It's not just sitting in the background and just falling away from our atmosphere kind of thing. I'll use the weight loss one for a perfect example of that. There's probably a week where I did regress and I stopped tracking calories and then I kind of jumped on the scales and went, okay, that does have that impact very quickly that you can unwind the benefit of this change very quickly. So I've learned that there's a toolkit of reinforcement. I really need to continue on with. So in the financial space for that, we still have our weekly checking to just go. It's literally 15 minutes on the couch before we. Get on to the next thing or watch Netflix or whatever it is. how are we going? Let's look at the scorecard, let's see where we're at and stuff like that. but it's also the continued reassessment of whether those systems are working for us so it's not a set and forget, it's making sure that we're embedding these changes as much as we can and continuing in all our life's ambitions.

Terry: 48:20

What's been the most positive reinforcement for you, Santina? Yeah.

Steve & Santina: 48:23

I was just gonna say about the tools, using the tools that are in place to just keep reinforcing that behavior and, continuing with that change. We're going to have days that it doesn't go well. We had a couple of months where we didn't go to plan with how we monthly mapped and so yeah, definitely not perfect in that space, going back to that too. Okay. Hang on.. Let's go back to this or what could we do better this time? Having that continuous, regular checking, I suppose,, you know, and I think Moola was that perfect tool that kind of allowed that reinforcement as well. So it's the spreadsheet on overdose, It's like getting the real live data rather than going into a spreadsheet, but putting it into a reporting format. Which is your scorecard on a live basis as well. So that's how you reinforce the changes, I think it's that atomic habits, James clear kind of point. I knew habit is formed once you do it two days in a row. That's a new habit. So, if you don't track your expenses via Moolah or you don't go in and check your scorecard and then it gets out of control once, that's fine. Two, you're starting to create a new habit, and then it just, it snowballs from that kind of period as well. I think it's also important to note that Everyone's pathway is going to look a little different too. And if we just go back to the fitness side of it, just as an easy example, like Steve's found running as his passion and like what he really enjoys to do. And he's, and it's a system in place where, again, there's a tool, there's the goals he can try and achieve. And that's what's, what really works for Steve. But then for me, I've moved to group fitness and I found that like that. That's just worked for me. Going to the gym and some days it's the motivation levels were high. So I had good workouts. Sometimes I didn't. Whereas group fitness stuff, there's a social side, which I love chatting to everyone as well. And I can think of nothing worse than chatting to someone at the gym. I have to get my socialness out of the system while I'm there too. So it's like, yeah, it's my thing. And now it's like, it's. It's been consolidated, you know, and it's just easy now, so reinforcement for me is really just the ability to make sure that you're checking in on the person you want to be and that the process and the systems and tools you're using are still achieving that. And if not having that Opportunity to not having to think that you do it yourself. You check in with the people that have helped you get to the reinforcement stage, right? And then seeing if there's new ways to do things or getting their perspective on how to make sure that that change sticks moving forward.

Terry: 50:37

Yeah, that's, and it's awesome to hear what you guys are saying too about the school boards and Muller and things, because we've spent so much time making sure that there's always a line of sight at every moment. you can't, You can't think this action happens in isolation. You can see what it means for each goal. And Something I'm really loving seeing as well is, I don't know if this happened for you guys, but burndown. Like making a game of your burndown through the month. So if you're not, if you're listening to this, you're probably not aware of what I'm talking about. But essentially, what we're doing is we're mapping our money forward to the month and we're putting our money in, you know, essentials accounts versus lifestyle accounts. And we're saying we plan to spend this much through the month. And then as the month goes through, we're watching these accounts burn down. But there's this graphic the way I explain this is like, Did you guys ever watch The Office? There's, there's an episode in the American one where he's at the front and he thinks he's killing it. He's, he's running the morning meeting everyone's like really engaged and he's like, I'm just killing it this morning. And really what's happening is every Monday morning when he runs this meeting, there's a TV in the background and the TV's got a bouncing ball that's going around the screen. Everybody forever is just waiting for the bouncing ball to hit perfectly in the corner. And so, this, on this particular morning, it's, it's getting close, it's getting close, and people are leaning in, they're going, Whoa, whoa, what are you slugging? He's like, I must be killing it. And then the ball hits the corner, and then they just go, Yes! And just walk out of the room. And he's like, Yeah, I was on fire this morning. it's that same kind of, I guess that game mechanic, that I'm noticing, I'm noticing with myself and my wife, Elise, and I'm noticing it with others that we're talking about as well, because you can just see, all right, this is how it's burning down. That's where the month ends. And we want it to hit perfectly at the end, because if we've spent that intentionally, that means that we've hit all our savings and investing targets, which means we're winning. So that's that, for me, that's the positive reinforcement going to win. I'm, I'm I'm only categorizing so I can get the highest quality information so that I can see exactly how I'm going at every single moment. and that can become addictive, which is

Steve & Santina: 52:18

yeah, and the other feature that I love about Moola as well as you've done your 12 month forecast to get the data down into there. So you've got your kind of needs for spending and the like in there. And then for me, it's like, I really would love to go to the pub like four times this month. But if I do that. That means I can't invest and if I spend this money here, it doesn't go there and it's really making that deliberate decision making on money as you go through your monthly map, it's just, you really see it. In all the graphical kind of information and it's great. I reckon it's fantastic. This It's not that you can't still do it. It's not like we're, yeah, skint down to not doing anything, you know, it's just makes you plan for it a bit better. And you can still do what you enjoy doing.

Terry: 52:58

Well, you guys have taken four family holidays, four couples holidays. And, you can tell me if I'm wrong, the reason you can feel good about doing that is because you know across the year, That it's not coming at the cost or it's not coming to at a too high cost to the goals that you're actually trying to hit because you know, the answer to that. It's not a should we or shouldn't we. If you ever are asking, should we or shouldn't we, you don't understand the trade off it's like we can go to the pub four nights if we want to, but it would mean that we're spending less or investing less over here. So that's not a should be or shouldn't be, good or bad, right or wrong type decision. It's a decision about values. What do we value more? We value the four nights or do we value the progress that we're making in this space? And that can shift and change. There can be a where you go, we're going to be a bit more social through spring through to December because that's important to us. You know, so it's I think the nuance that you're trying to get to there, Santino. It's not rules. There's no prescriptions. You're not good or bad. You get to actually choose what you want to do with your money.

Steve & Santina: 53:50

What helped me a lot was, I didn't have that future state of what that looked like So anything that I would spend money on myself, I would have that guilty conscious, like steve spent money on himself, wouldn't care. I'd spend it all on the kids but then on me, I'd be, I'd really take that risk adverse approach, I don't need, you know, just leave it, you know, whereas now it's like, if we've planned for it, it's like this guilt free spending. And that's really helped my. Money psychology of being okay to spend money on myself. So that's on our board that Santana goes gets body J massages. And you were there last week. So she's finally spending

Terry: 54:24

I reckon you guys have nailed this board, eh? So in a 12 month timeline, I'm trying to remember of a couple that I think have done a better job of making it actually happen.

Steve & Santina: 54:31

Thanks for that. It's good. Thanks to you guys. We've already talked about what Future Stephen and Santuna want from life, now we've just got to go and make it happen. All that decision making and part of that is also the trade off again with we send the girls to a private school so that at least she can get the best support for her disability because this school's got 10 percent of kids with that same disability. Does that financially hurt us compared to if we didn't send them? Definitely, but that's our investment that we make now so that Future Stephen and Santuna have. The best the worlds for those kids so they have the best chance to be independent as they can be. And then that'll mean that I'm sitting in Rome drinking red wine with Santina rather than santina and three kids.

Terry: 55:09

love Guys, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and really delving into the details with us. I've just got one more question for you. So, change has been the focus of this conversation. It's been the theme and working your way through change and doing that gracefully. If you're advising somebody who does want a different future, they want a different experience, they're not happy with the way things are, but they're also just a little bit, I'm a little bit scared of the change. What would your advice be to that person?

Steve & Santina: 55:32

It really is just have an open mind. Be open to learning something that's a lot different to what you probably learnt, you know, growing up, I think you definitely model a lot of what your parents do, and then that is naturally just what you keep going on doing. I don't necessarily feel like you won't get there. It's just, you get there. At a much higher rate, a different rate, and accelerate what you really want and get to live a values driven life. yeah.

Terry: 55:58

So are you saying, look for ways that it could work, instead of trying to cling to what is?

Steve & Santina: 56:02

Yeah, and it's not to say that the way that you're doing it's bad. There's probably just a, better way of looking and just open to learning what that looks like. and I think for me it's find a trusted partner that can support you through this. You're never alone in change. And then the other one is make the change visible. One of the best activities we did throughout the whole program was writing the letter to our future self. And not that we've done the activity extensively, but I've written a letter to my future self multiple times through this process to kind of really have that self reflection, but motivation to move forward. Almost as importantly of making it visible is what's staying the same, because I think when we go through change, everyone is so focused on the change and change is hard. It makes that natural reaction in our body where our body goes fight or flight, do I want to be part of this? But I think focusing on what isn't changing and then what are realistic changes in a timeframe that can still make you feel comfortable is so important. So everyone has a different threshold to change. Identify your threshold and then find a partner that can help guide you through it. And that's really where we've kind of succeeded is my threshold to change in this space is high. Centine will laugh later and say my threshold to change in other kid related activities is very low. But in this space it was high. But through her kind of different rate of change, we were able to really use that trusted partner and you guys to coach us through on that space as well. So that being on the spectrum, isn't it? You're somewhere along there on the line somewhere. identify, make it visible. What's not going to change and then just break it up into chunks. And it doesn't all have to be done in a day. We've moved a long way in a year, but we're 30 years away from our final destination. even then for the kids and what we hope for our grandkids and all that in the future, that's hundreds of years away almost. So it's. What is it? You eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Oh,

Terry: 57:48

Love it. Last thing for me, just finish this sentence. I know you're looking at your canvas, I'm looking at it as well. Finish this sentence for me.

Steve & Santina: 57:55

freedom. It's wealth is the ability to make the decisions I want when I want to do it. Mine is wealth is to live a life that is like basically values driven to you. So that's what wealthy like to me. It's not the money, but I feel like I'm wealthy. Because I get to live the experiences that I truly value.

Terry: 58:14

And if I was to look at the changes you guys have made, I can tell you what wealth is for you. Wealth is a connected family,

Steve & Santina: 58:19

Yeah.

Terry: 58:20

wealth is meaningful work, and it's adventures together.

Steve & Santina: 58:22

Yeah, yeah, I think that's exactly what we've done over the last 12 months. And that makes me feel wealthy. Like I get to do that, you know, and it's amazing, that we get to live that life and make those decisions. And It's pretty cool. well, life is so effing busy, but if you don't make time for you, what your future looks like, you're never going to get there.

Terry: 58:39

Love it, guys. Thank you so much for coming on.

Steve & Santina: 58:41

we want to finish off with thanking both you and Ryan and the gang, because we couldn't have done it without this kind of program. And you guys, uh, obviously it's your business, but you can see the heart and drive that you guys put into this on an everyday basis. And we wouldn't have been able to make that change without you guys. So it's been huge. Very grateful. Roll it out into the schools now. So we get to learn these concepts

Terry: 59:04

Thank you so much. I appreciate that. it's funny because, we keep getting asked about that. Um,

Steve & Santina: 59:08

Really like, you know, cause we were in our mid thirties we got to, understand it. So imagine if we actually you know, put money mapping and moolah into schools and then we'll be good to go. Lots of people can live wealthy lives.

Terry: 59:21

you know, that's the reason why we have the podcast because I want my kids to stumble across it.

Steve & Santina: 59:25

Yeah, it's the educational tool of the future. So that's exactly right.

Terry: 59:29

so much guys. You have a great weekend. Really appreciate you coming in and doing this on a saturday This is so good.

Steve & Santina: 59:35

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Have a great one. Thank you.