Middle and high school jewelry programs are booming across America as upcoming generations discover this captivating artform that combines creativity, critical thinking and endless potential! This episode of For the Love of Jewelers welcomes Bryan Petersen of Bozeman High and Stacie Smith of Gallatin High School—two enthusiastic Rio for Schools instructors from Bozeman, Montana, who empower aspiring teens to learn new skills as they help forge the next generation of jewelers. They join co-hosts, Paulene Everett of the Rio Grande Jewelry Tech Team and Mark Nelson, Rio for Schools Education Coordinator, to discuss the younger generations’ growing interest in jewelry fabrication and metalsmithing.
Middle and high school jewelry programs are booming across America as upcoming generations discover this captivating artform that combines creativity, critical thinking and endless potential! This episode of For the Love of Jewelers welcomes Bryan Petersen of Bozeman High and Stacie Smith of Gallatin High School—two enthusiastic Rio for Schools instructors from Bozeman, Montana, who empower aspiring teens to learn new skills as they help forge the next generation of jewelers. They join co-hosts, Paulene Everett of the Rio Grande Jewelry Tech Team and Mark Nelson, Rio for Schools Education Coordinator, to discuss the younger generations’ growing interest in jewelry fabrication and metalsmithing.
Mark Nelson:
You are listening to the fifth season of Rio Grande for the Love of Jewelers podcast, a celebration of jewelers, the jewelry community, and the art of jewelry making. In this new season, we are excited to announce that there will be a rotating cast of Rio Grande Jewelry tech team members for hosting the show. We will share our love and knowledge of jewelry making, along with interviews featuring industry leaders, educators, and fellow jewelers in the community.
Paulene Everett:
Hi, and welcome to episode two of the fifth season of For the Love of Jewelers Podcast. I'm your host, Pauline Everett, and joining me on the show today is my co-host Mark Nelson. Mark manages our Rio for Schools Initiative, and we're excited to have two Rio for Schools instructors as guests today. Bryan Petersen and Stacie Smith from Bozeman, Montana. Mark, tell the listeners a little bit about yourself and the Rio for Schools program.
Mark Nelson:
Okay, where should I start? I have a master's degree in jewelry metalsmithing from Texas Tech University. Graduated in 1999, and had to pay my student loans. So found a job working for a local jeweler and that taught me pretty much everything I needed to know right there. Moved to Albuquerque, got a job with Rio Grande, been there 18 years now. Started off on the tech team, same team that you're on. And really, really learned a ton of stuff there. And then I slowly moved into education. I started teaching for Rio, and then progressively taking on more and more planning and coordinating duties like that. And then when COVID hit, I ended up as the Rio for Schools guy. I oversee nearly all the school accounts, and those who are instructors who want to sign up and students and things like that.
Paulene Everett:
Yeah, my introduction to you was actually through CNM, and of course you go to CNM and you're new and green, everything. And you had talked about, I think during my last semester, that Rio had job openings, and so I was like, "Oh, I don't remember..." I didn't really know what that was at the time. And then I finally got into Rio and then I found out that you were really infamous or famous within the jewelry industry. And I was like, "Oh, Mark is a big deal, but I just know him as my instructor that used to pick on me."
Mark Nelson:
I prefer the term, notorious.
Paulene Everett:
Notorious. You are very notorious. Notorious Mark Nelson. Yeah. So you were my introduction into, not only... Well, because you and Harley were my instructors at one point, but you were my introduction into Rio, and then pushed me to the tech team. Because I remember when that position opened, you were like, "Are you going to go for it?" And I was like, "Yeah, absolutely." And so you've been fairy Godfathering me through Rio.
Mark Nelson:
I know talent and I want to see it progress.
Paulene Everett:
Notorious talent? Infamous talent?
Mark Nelson:
So I could talk a little bit more about the program, the Rio First Schools Program?
Paulene Everett:
Yeah. Absolutely. I haven't really... I know a little bit about it, but why don't you tell me about what your involvement is as an account manager. Because I know that you do a lot of building of programs and especially for tools and things, but that's the extent that I know of your role.
Mark Nelson:
Let me go back a little bit further than that. You have to know that education is a founding principle of Rio Grande. When Saul Bell opened the store and customers would come in, he would always share his knowledge. And so it's about sharing. And so, Rio Grande has always had little tech tidbits in the catalogs and their flyers and things like that, sharing their knowledge. And then we started offering classes. And so I started teaching there and we've offered classes. And for the last 10 years, there's always been some kind of schools program, the current iteration's the Rio for Schools program. And what it does is it provides discounts to instructors, schools and students, because we know that we have an expensive hobby.
Paulene Everett:
Yeah, jewelry is not a cheap hobby.
Mark Nelson:
Oh no, man. And so you need every little incentive or perk that you can get to get started. And then my involvement basically is I open up new accounts. So they contact me and I help them. There's a lot of different ways you can do it. And so I help walk them through the process, get them started, and there's that part of it. And then I maintain existing accounts. I place orders for them. Let them know when things are in stock, when they're not in stock, and that kind of stuff. And then I started to see these patterns. I just started doing work and I noticed these patterns of more and more high schools starting new programs.
Paulene Everett:
Right. Because you're not just dealing with higher level education. You're dealing with middle school, high school, college and others.
Mark Nelson:
Private.
Paulene Everett:
Private school.
Mark Nelson:
Yeah. I mean across the board. If you teach jewelry, you're qualified to be in the program.
Paulene Everett:
To be an instructor. That's cool.
Mark Nelson:
And I just started to see these patterns where these high schools and middle schools of course starting new programs and I'm like, "What's going on?"
Paulene Everett:
Right. Introducing them to the expensive hobby early.
Mark Nelson:
Exactly. And middle schoolers love to do enameling.
Paulene Everett:
Right.
Mark Nelson:
I think it's like baking.
Paulene Everett:
I love to do enameling. It's fun. It is like baking, isn't it? You just sprinkle the sugar on the cookie.
Mark Nelson:
Yeah. And that's been the fun part of it and helping these new teachers start new programs.
Paulene Everett:
That's cool. Very cool. Yeah, it's interesting to see how much Rio plays a role in education because this is what we talked about, Shane and I, talked about on the last episode was that we are probably one of the only jewelry companies that has a tech team dedicated to that. And so we really do care a lot about educating others within the industry without hiding information. And so with the Rio for Schools program, with our tech team, with our video content production, it is a really huge incentive of ours, which I think is something that is admirable as a company.
Mark Nelson:
And don't forget about the Santa Fe Symposium.
Paulene Everett:
Oh, yeah.
Mark Nelson:
That ran for what, 36 years?
Paulene Everett:
Something like that?
Mark Nelson:
Something like that?
Paulene Everett:
If not longer. 36 years I think, because it was one year after the 35.
Mark Nelson:
And it was all about sharing information and nobody owned it. It is-
Paulene Everett:
It's just a free-floating thing.
Mark Nelson:
... Yeah. So education is a very big part of Rio Grande.
Paulene Everett:
So you had talked about enameling being really ideal for middle school students. It's a really good introduction into jewelry making. What is a good introduction or technique or process that you find is really good for high school students?
Mark Nelson:
One thing I'm really loving these days is fold forming. I've been able to go into the high schools and do some demos. And fold forming was invented by Charles Lewton-Brain back in the eighties. It's just so intuitive and you really can't do anything wrong.
Paulene Everett:
It's more abstract?
Mark Nelson:
It's more abstract, and you can do things better, but you can't go wrong. And in 15 minutes you can make some of the coolest forms just superfast, super easy. It's intuitive and it's relaxing and the kids seem to like it. The classes are really small and they have a short time, right?
Paulene Everett:
Right.
Mark Nelson:
And so they can knock out five, six different fold forms in that class period.
Paulene Everett:
And what are they doing with those pieces? Are they making them into jewelry? Are they doing more like abstract structure, or maybe a I don't know, anything? Just anything specific? They just-
Mark Nelson:
Nothing specific. They're just playing, which is the best part. And some will turn them into jewelry, other will incorporate them into other sculptures.
Paulene Everett:
... Sculpture was the word I was looking for.
Mark Nelson:
And no, it's just a lot of fun. It's low tech, it's low, very easy equipment. It's just hammers and steel plates just to get started. So yeah, fold forming. Love it.
Paulene Everett:
I remember we had a project about that of fold forming, but I think one of the best things to teach people is to teach them how to play with metal first and not feel scared by working with metal. And then you can get into, so this plays with that technique. And I think if you're introducing people into techniques, having just those basic play skills helps you do more technical stuff.
Mark Nelson:
Oh, for sure. I mean, when I was in grad school, I had a professor, sculptural professor, she said, "Mark, you need to play more." At the time a sheet-
Paulene Everett:
What does that mean?
Mark Nelson:
... I know, a sheet of silver was 50 bucks. I was like, "I'm not playing with 50 bucks."
Paulene Everett:
Right.
Mark Nelson:
But 26 gauge copper, you can play all day and have just a ton of fun.
Paulene Everett:
Right. And then you get used to working with copper, so you don't feel as scared going into silver or gold.
Mark Nelson:
Exactly.
Paulene Everett:
Yeah, it gives you that introduction into, "Oh, okay, I can do this without messing it up." Or maybe the intention is to mess it up and then do something cool with it.
Mark Nelson:
But no, you're right, playing is key to learning.
Paulene Everett:
Yeah, I agree.
Mark Nelson:
For sure.
Paulene Everett:
And then I think it doesn't feel as intimidating because the limits of what you can do. And so when you are playing, it doesn't feel as scary.
Mark Nelson:
Right.
Paulene Everett:
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Joining the show today are Stacie Smith and Bryan Petersen, Rio for Schools instructors from Bozeman, Montana. Thanks to you for taking the time and to visit with us today and being part of Rio for Schools. We really wanted to talk to you because we wanted to really highlight that department of Rio, because within Rio we have such an expansive department and we really try to support and bring schools to the forefront of what we care about. And that's where Mark plays into. Before I was in Rio, I was learning from a jewelry program locally and Mark was an instructor at the same time. So it's very close to our hearts. We really care about our school programs, we have them locally, and we just really wanted to highlight you guys, highlight what you guys are doing and talk to you a little bit about what your programs look like and see where you're at in your instructor journeys.
Stacie Smith:
Well, thank you so much. I feel really honored to be recognized and invited by you guys.
Mark Nelson:
I'm excited too. I mean, I've been working with both of you for a while now, especially you, Stacie, and we got a lot of history. I think you were from Albuquerque, and so you have that connection. And then I remember one of your students being recognized by the Saul Bell Design Awards.
Paulene Everett:
Oh, that's cool.
Mark Nelson:
More than a few times. So we just would like to know about you guys. I think you guys are married, right?
Stacie Smith:
We are.
Mark Nelson:
Right. You teach at different high schools in Bozeman, right? It's Bozeman High School. And how do you say your high school's name, Stacie?
Stacie Smith:
Gallatin High.
Mark Nelson:
Gallatin. Okay. So yeah, talk to us about that. How does that relationship work? How big are your programs? What do you guys do? Anything like that? We would love to know it.
Bryan Petersen:
I mean, the two high schools is a new thing. Our town, Bozeman's growing so much that we finally got a second high school. And for a while Stacie was splitting her time, her days between Bozeman High and Gallatin High, teaching a half day at both schools. And then she finally made the move to Gallatin, and the position opened up at Bozeman. And so I jumped on that. So I've only been in the high school situation for about three years now. And prior to that I was in higher ed teaching metals locally.
And I guess that's how we met was she was always bringing in people from the university or visiting artists that would be in. And so I would come and demonstrate to her students and we'd see each other at openings and such. So it started out as a networking thing and certainly a recruitment thing because I always was wanting to recruit her high school students that had possibly three years of jewelry background under her tutelage.
Paulene Everett:
That's funny. I was going to ask that question. You guys are both instructors, you're both teaching jewelry metals programs and I was going to ask how you guys met. So you already answered that for me. You're going to know all of the questions before I even ask them.
Bryan Petersen:
Yeah, we could detour a lot I think on these conversations.
Mark Nelson:
Talk to us a little bit about the programs. I mean, they start as freshmen I guess, and what kind of techniques projects do you guys go through? What's the curriculum like?
Stacie Smith:
Each school, they have this saying, it's called One Bozeman. So we try to stay on the same track in our departments. And for the art department students have to take a [inaudible 00:13:18] of art foundations before moving on to advanced classes. And jewelry is considered an advanced class. Right now I can speak for GHS and Bryan can talk about BHS, but GHS I approximately have about 88 jewelry students a day.
Paulene Everett:
Wow, a day. Wow.
Stacie Smith:
Yeah, it's a lot. And a few of those students, a good handful are advanced placement students who are doing AP portfolio work. And then I have a group of 22 Jewelry-2 students and about 66 Jewelry-1 students currently.
Paulene Everett:
Wow. So you've had a pretty expansive group of people. And then for you, Bryan, are you've seen the same volume of people taking these courses? Is this a new course that's going on within Bozeman or is it something that's always been in production but it's now expanding?
Bryan Petersen:
Jewelry-1 and Jewelry-2. You've got 20 plus years of running the program and it's been steady, hasn't it?
Stacie Smith:
Yeah, in 2000 I was hired at Bozeman High and relocated from New Mexico and at that point I had nine jewelry students and my department leader basically gave me the challenge and said I was hired to help the program grow. So since 2000 now we're serving upward of over 150 kiddos a day.
Paulene Everett:
When I got into, so when I started college, they didn't have a jewelry program. I think I was, or it had just started at CNM, the local community college. So I think I was the second run of that program. And I think that class was really small. I think Jewelry-1, it was maybe like 12 to 20-something people? And it has severely expanded now. But I think coming from a background of not really knowing what I wanted to do with my life and finding the jewelry program, it's fascinating how quickly some people really take to that and how much interest it is.
And I think if I had the option of doing that in high school, I probably would've started a lot sooner because I didn't even know it was a possibility. So I think it's great that people are getting an alternative to the usual. You take business classes, you take science classes, but having an art class that is beyond painting, I think that's really impressive and I think that's a really great way to get kids more excited about things in the real world.
Bryan Petersen:
Yeah, I think the career-ready ideas, something that the art departments at the high school are constantly touting. And we run art clubs and the students are making things for sale and doing fundraiser sales to maybe fund a field trip. And Stacie's been doing jewelry sales forever and they're just a big hit. Parents and staff, they look forward to it every year. And I think that connection for students at a high school level to see that it could be a successful thing or to get the ability to go, "Wow, somebody liked this and bought it for a gift for somebody else, or it's going out into the world and they're wearing it."
Mark Nelson:
So that brings up a question I had is that when I first took on my current position, this was right when COVID hit, my job shifted dramatically and I just started taking orders for schools. And during COVID, schools across the nation were ordering 50 bench pins, 50 saw frames, all these saw blades and sending these home to kids and they were doing work from home. And then afterwards they just kept buying stuff. I'm like, "What is going on with the high school jewelry programs in America?" And the more teachers I talk to, they're doubling in size. We've got two schools here in Albuquerque that have one's tripled, the other's doubled in size. Kids are really taking to jewelry making. Do you guys have any thoughts on that as to why that might be going on? Do you see that happening there in Bozeman as well?
Stacie Smith:
Absolutely. I mean, I think metalsmithing for kids is challenging and exciting and engaging. They're doing a lot of self-reflection, I think more so than prior to COVID reflecting our histories, traditions, cultures, and of course themselves. I think it's a reason for a lot of kids to come to school or a balance in their day or something they look forward to. For me, for a kid, the most proud thing is when they say, "I made this," and the pride they take in that and learning a new skillset and being able to use their hands and their hearts and their heads. I think it's really powerful and they know it.
Mark Nelson:
That's awesome. I mean, I know when I was in high school, Art kept me in high school. That was my thing. That's how I identified. I was the artist. And I didn't know jewelry existed at that time. It wasn't until I got in college that I got into it, so.
Paulene Everett:
It's funny, I grew up, my dad was a tradee, he was a journeyman pipe fitter, and so I grew up with pipe fitting and steel and knew how to do some of that. But then coming into, especially with when I was in college and when I was in high school, which was about 10 years ago now, we didn't really have as many options for trade programs. And I think that giving kids the option of having a trade program instead of having to do traditional college routes later on in life, I think it's really important. I think that we lost our way with trade programs and I think that if people knew it existed, they wouldn't feel so intimidated by the world. And that leads into what kind of projects are you having your kids work on? Are they doing stuff like stamp and form? Are you having them fabricate? How complicated or maybe how simple are you having their projects?
Bryan Petersen:
I guess I can start out on this one. And I've cherry-picked a lot of her high school projects and then evolved in the three years, just jewelry-specific stuff. I used to teach a lot of metalsmithing, so it was a lot narrower category. And this longstanding project that she had developed that I'm still teaching and she's moved away from it a little bit, is we got it from Andrew Berry's channel, his YouTube channel.
They choose one of three traditional, I believe it's a traditional Chinese puzzle that's just based out of a two by two square of 22 gauge brass. And I just always have that on stock because I'm like, "I'm going to start Jewelry-1 out with this tangram project." And the first part's just building the puzzle. I start out with sanding, I'm like, "You're going to sand all the scratches out of this 300, 400, 600 wet sand and then you're going to sell these pieces apart and then you're going to learn how to push a file. You're going to learn how to chamfer, you're going to learn how to sand those edges." They get a grade for that finished puzzle, and then they have to turn all those pieces into jewelry items.
"Do I have to use all the pieces?" And there's seven to 10 pieces based on what they choose. But yeah, that's part of the challenge. And I end up teaching them how to do jump rings, and ear wires, and clasps where I think Stacie, she would have that ready and just give them manufactured findings and chain. So I stretch it out a little longer, but I was always taught, I was like, "Oh, we're jewelers. We make that stuff." And the downside is it's hard to make jump rings and handmade ear wires and clasps right out of the gate. And they don't always turn out beautifully. But yeah, that's this project that I hesitate to move on from just yet. I'm not tired of it and it gives them a really good foundation.
Paulene Everett:
Well now I want you to send me that project so I can do that. That sounds like a lot of fun. I feel like I'd have a good time doing that. It's a lot of problem solving.
Bryan Petersen:
There's a variation on it where the kids create their own puzzle, so there's a little more creativity involved in the beginning portion versus one of three puzzles. So yeah, it can evolve I think.
Stacie Smith:
Well, to back up on your initial statement, Pauline, just seeing how trends have changed like it's okay to not go to college right away. It's okay to go to a trade school. That our communities really need that outlet. So I feel like that's great that the light has been shined on that. I didn't dare think about not going to college right out of high [inaudible 00:22:33]. And they're very different now. So I embrace that.
And then as far as projects go, it's fun and challenging in the sense of things are always changing as we know, popularity of trends and all of that and trying to stay with that and being honest as a teacher and reflecting on like, "Well, that one didn't work, or didn't keep them engaged, or that was a really great one for learning some skillset and building foundations." So I think we're always... And then you get bored and all of those things.
Paulene Everett:
Adapting.
Stacie Smith:
I have them make their own puzzle to learn how to saw first, and then they're making little wearable sketchbooks right now, for Jewelry-1.
Paulene Everett:
That's cool.
Mark Nelson:
That's cool.
Stacie Smith:
Yeah, they've been having a blast. I was a little nervous and then they were like, "Oh, that's sweet." So they're all enjoying it. So I was like, "Oh, phew."
Paulene Everett:
That was a good one. Write that down.
Bryan Petersen:
But how many pages do you put in there and it's bound and...?
Stacie Smith:
Yeah, it only takes an eight and a half by 11 sheet of paper that they fold and tear, and fold and tear. And it's like a one-and-a-half by two inch pieces of paper that they fold and then bind to leather or something, and then they're incorporating a meaningful found object.
Mark Nelson:
There you go. Cool.
Stacie Smith:
[inaudible 00:24:04]. And then also fabricating a charm that's personal or says something about themselves. So they've been having a good time with that one.
Bryan Petersen:
It's like a teenage amulet or talisman project.
Paulene Everett:
I love that.
Mark Nelson:
Okay. So one of the questions I had is what kind of equipment do you guys have? Do you have a hydraulic press? Do you guys do casting? What kind of resources do you guys have?
Stacie Smith:
Well, thanks to you guys we have quite a bit. When COVID hit, well, I've been trying for a long time. We used to just makeshift tables and the like. And finally with the support of our administration and our community, we're able to get real workbenches. So both schools have 22, 23 workbenches in each space, so that's fantastic. And I wrote a grant for a hydraulic press, which Mark helped me get all those pieces together. So we've been having fun with that. And an enameling setup.
Mark Nelson:
[inaudible 00:25:12].
Stacie Smith:
Yeah, Bryan's same.
Bryan Petersen:
Yeah, I'm yet to break mine in. I think last year I got enameling kiln replacing what she had and took to Gallatin. And so I'm wanting to get the enameling program rolling with Jewelry-2 this semester. And then I also purchased a rectifier to do some electro etching.
Mark Nelson:
Nice.
Paulene Everett:
Cool.
Bryan Petersen:
So I'm hoping to bring both of those into the Bozeman program. That hydraulic press you've got is, you revisit that on an annual basis.
Stacie Smith:
Yeah.
Bryan Petersen:
I'm trying to think what other tools that have recently come into the...
Stacie Smith:
More flex shafts has been great.
Paulene Everett:
But you don't really realize how important a flex shaft is until you actually have one.
Stacie Smith:
Yeah. And again, not to bring up COVID again, but it always seems to come up is when we were back in the classroom, we were still nervous about moving around a lot. And I think our programs are full of that, so it's like, "What do we need to get at each bench so students don't have to get up as much and everything's right there?" And the flex shaft was huge as far as that goes.
Bryan Petersen:
The finishing of work versus hand sanding. When you get into rings and rotary, using the rotary finishing split mandrels and silicone wheels and such, it blows their mind that that's there.
Mark Nelson:
Right.
Bryan Petersen:
That's easier.
Mark Nelson:
One of the things I found while teaching is that the younger the student is, the more attentive they are to the flex shaft, they're more aware of it. And my older students who are retired and things like that, they're like, "I don't know, I'm just playing around with flex shaft." And then they're the ones that get hurt. The high school students, man, they're keyed in. They're really focused on it, at least the ones I've had anyway.
Stacie Smith:
Yeah, and curious. Just really cool. Yeah.
Mark Nelson:
One of the other cool things is that I found recently is that enameling is the number one middle school technique.
Paulene Everett:
Oh, really?
Mark Nelson:
I got middle schools opening up programs across the nation and the first thing they're doing is enameling.
Paulene Everett:
That's awesome.
Mark Nelson:
I think it's like baking cookies.
Paulene Everett:
[inaudible 00:27:39].
Mark Nelson:
You've got a piece of metal, you sprinkle the sugar on it and then you put it in the oven, it comes out-
Paulene Everett:
A different color.
Mark Nelson:
... pretty and you can wear it. It's great for moms and dads and everybody.
Stacie Smith:
And the colors too.
Mark Nelson:
Oh, yeah.
Stacie Smith:
Yeah. Ability to put color on metal like that.
Bryan Petersen:
I'm always impressed by what the middle school art teachers are pulling into their curriculums. We get them in high school and they're like, "Oh, I already did that in so-and-so's class." I'm like, "What?" So we had that conversation. Mark, you mentioning these programs that you're exposed to and the numbers and the growth, because we don't really have an idea of that in terms of an organization of high school art jewelry teachers. We do follow the Facebook group, High School Jewelry Art Teachers, and then Rio Grande's content that you're creating. But it's this niche and what are those numbers across the country and where are those programs and how do us teachers connect and get inspired. So yeah, I think it's a really cool area to focus on.
Paulene Everett:
That actually leads me to something. You had mentioned COVID of course, that was a really big challenge for a lot of us, and especially being instructors, I could feel like that's even more pressure because what we do, we don't really have to see people that often versus what you guys are doing, you're very hands-on in what you're doing. What kind of challenges are you facing maybe then or maybe now with not having a directory of instructors or maybe coming into a new wave of kids who just went through COVID. How does that affect you? What are you thinking about and dealing with with that?
Bryan Petersen:
An obvious one that coming from the university system was you had students that chose art is a major and they were invested in that way. And then at the high school level, we're an elective. And so we're very similar to maybe culinary arts or what have you. So you have a broader group of students taking your courses and I think there are those that are super plugged in and it comes naturally and they're gifted. And then I think there are others that I had a student the other day say, "I'm not sure if jewelry's my thing." And I'm like, "Well, hang on a second, it's week three."
Paulene Everett:
You still got time.
Bryan Petersen:
" [inaudible 00:30:01]. Give it some time. You're going to need more practice." But I think that's the biggest thing is you roll out these projects and you have students that are fast runners and then you've got to pace these things and you've got other students that need redirection or help throughout your period or they're not going to move forward. So I think that's challenges for teachers. The cellphones, laying down some ground rules about that, what's appropriate, what's not. We let them listen to music during work time, I think to trust that they're going to use it responsibly. So I think those are all the challenges that are immediate. And I think some of those fast runners, you've got to throw some stuff in front of them or allow them to take on side projects, try to inspire them like, "Oh, you just did this. Have you seen this chain mail pattern?" That'll keep them busy.
Paulene Everett:
And challenging them.
Bryan Petersen:
Keeping those people challenged and then providing the support for those that are struggling and behind. Because you've got to get them all to the finish line at the same time. What would you say?
Stacie Smith:
There's so many different levels or layers to that. I think for me, well, and you guys know this too, there are so many tools and materials that you have to manage.
Paulene Everett:
Right.
Stacie Smith:
So that's always a struggle and making sure you're on top of that and organized. My number one challenge if I would raise my hand up quickly is my space. Unfortunately it's small and Bryan cleverly called it The Shoebox. So now me and my [inaudible 00:31:39] call it The Shoebox Studio. And just trying to function safely and creatively in that space.
Paulene Everett:
Small space.
Stacie Smith:
And try to grow at the same time and create a community that is safe and welcoming and all of those things. For sure. I've learned a tremendous amount about what the necessities are and different ways of being creative. So that was nice. And also, I always wanted to incorporate website and that sort of platform, so that really opened that up and incorporate or having the platform for students to go if they miss a day or if they want to revisit something, to have that space for them whether they're at school or at home. I thought that was really a unique and helped me grow as an instructor.
Bryan Petersen:
Yeah, the digitized curriculum that's came out of that, I'm not as up to speed with that as she is, but she used to create this spiral bound book for all her jewelry students and there's still a bunch floating around, but now she's got that all interwoven into the Canvas platform and students can go and find all these references, and handouts, and videos for inspiration. And so as far as the digitized curriculum, I think that's the big thing that's maybe come out of it and made teachers' lives maybe easier. Cut down on a lot of hard copy printouts, which I'm a big fan of, but that's the big evolution, I think, is jewelry teachers showing videos, doing projections of things throughout the day versus hands-on printouts.
Paulene Everett:
I think there's a benefit of both. Your shoebox comment reminded me of something I heard the other day that was, I guess it's in this case a shoebox, but creativity thrives in a box. So you have your parameters, how can you be creative in them? And I'm going to use that-
Mark Nelson:
For sure.
Paulene Everett:
... for something later of course. But you saying that reminded me. So creativity thrives in a shoebox.
Mark Nelson:
So one of the questions we definitely want to ask is what do your students do after they graduate? Are they going into the industry? Are they starting their own businesses? Are they just loving the time they had in high school and moving on? Do you have any success stories you'd like to share?
Bryan Petersen:
Yeah, we made a list because when I was at the university, what students did I have that came out of her program and what have they done? And certainly there's a good handful of them that have kept their hands in it and are professionally making work and are successful and popular with their work and their sales. So that's interesting. Do you want to talk about anybody in specific?
Stacie Smith:
Well, yeah. It's just '24, I've been teaching since 2000. So that's a good run, right?
Mark Nelson:
Yeah.
Stacie Smith:
And it's really fun to run into students in our community later and for them to reflect and say how appreciative they are. And that was their favorite class in school. And I just think, wow, it's anything from being creating advocates for the arts, appreciating our craft, to hobbyist, other educators. We hired one of our students, Hailey Vidmar, she was my student in high school. She went on to study with Bryan at the university, and now she's teaching with Bryan.
Paulene Everett:
That's cool.
Stacie Smith:
The business owners that are great members of our community. Like Jason Beatty, who was his father started The Gem Gallery here in town. And so he had a little spark from his dad, but then when he got in high school, other things were more important to him. And he came into my classroom, and sparked some more joy there, and then went on to study with Bryan and now he bought the Gem Gallery from his dad-
Paulene Everett:
Wow.
Stacie Smith:
... and is helping our community thrive. And he's actually coming to my class on Monday to Jewelry-2, to talk about the industry a little bit.
Mark Nelson:
Fantastic.
Paulene Everett:
That's cool.
Stacie Smith:
So it's a great little community to be a part of. And I think Bryan mentioned earlier, I think sometimes we feel like we're on a little island by ourselves, and it's so fantastic to hear Mark say, "Oh, these middle school programs." And wow, we are a bigger community than we think, and there are a lot of us. How could we reach out more to each other and support each other?
Mark Nelson:
And I'm really glad you brought that up. I want to touch on that real quick, is that there are a lot of little islands out there, especially in the high school jewelry communities, and it'd be great to find a way that we could all come together and help each other out. Is there something that the industry, Rio Grande Jewelry Supply or all the other companies in the industry, what can we do to help high school programs in your opinion?
Bryan Petersen:
I think this is a step in the right direction. We were brainstorming about that and we're like, "What is the stuff that we're looking at in social media and Facebook and where are we getting this sense of further instruction as teachers in our field and jewelry specifically?" It's like I think the spotlight on what all these teachers are doing, these questions you're asking, what are the challenges? Why is it growing? How do you grow it? So teacher spotlights I think is a pretty cool thing that you don't see a lot of except on that Facebook group where teachers are saying, "Hey, I'm just starting a jewelry program. I'm a week out, what's a great first project?" So I get a kick out of those, and just hearing people chime in with lots, veteran teachers, of this and that. So sometimes we get ideas from that zone.
Stacie Smith:
Well, a hundred percent. And I think of that island and I just appreciate my relationship with Bryan because we definitely use, I mean, I use him for ideas every day and I know that there's other teachers who don't maybe have that and just to have names of people you can reach out to. I don't know. So many things come to mind. How great would it be to have some sort of community event where we could all get together to... I'm a big fan. Every Friday I show a artsy inspiration and I use Rio, a lot of your videos and I appreciate them. And keep them coming.
Bryan Petersen:
Oh, yeah. Mark's video, We've Been Making Rings The Wrong Way.
Stacie Smith:
The Wrong Way.
Mark Nelson:
Oh, with Andrew Berry. Yeah.
Bryan Petersen:
If you make a ton of rings and yeah, there's more than one way to do it.
Stacie Smith:
Yeah, rings are really popular. And For the Love of Jewelers, just those. And then like I said earlier, the platforms, I use your videos all the time and post them on there for kids to revisit. It's one thing to watch a demo with us and practice, but then it's like, "Hey, go watch the demystified soldering video or something." But one thing I think was I loved this question. It made me think a lot, and I'm like, "What would help is..." There's so many things. I would love to come tour Rio. I think that would be fantastic. And I know that door is probably open. I don't know how to make that happen, but hopefully will. But I'm like, "What about you guys coming into our facilities?" And every time I walk into another jeweler's studio, I get another idea. Or you need all of our creative skills.
Mark Nelson:
It's a community and it's one of the things I loved about my new position is I'm going into the local high school and I do fold forming demos, and there's another charter school that just started a club and I'm like, "Let me come in." So I've lined up two high schools in town, a third's on the way, and just slowly putting myself out there and going into classrooms. It's one of the brightest parts of my day for sure.
Stacie Smith:
Well, we'd love to have you up here.
Mark Nelson:
Okay, Montana? Yeah. Book a flight.
Paulene Everett:
Thank you again to Bryan and Stacie for joining the show today. We really appreciate you talking with us and sharing your experience as instructors. I feel like this is something we really would benefit highlighting a lot more from what you guys had said. And I don't know, maybe Mark and I can put our heads together and think about getting with you and the community about getting a directory started. That's something else I'm doing for another type of jewelry making. And we really appreciate you for being a part of Rio for Schools.
Stacie Smith:
Thank you guys so much. Been fun.
Mark Nelson:
Thank you guys.
Paulene Everett:
We really appreciate this. For more information regarding Rio for Schools, visit riogrande.com and you can search Rio for Schools. There's a landing page for that, or you can actually email Mark directly at rioforschools@riogrande.com.
Mark Nelson:
Yes, and I'll help in any way I can. Any subject. It's been a pleasure working with Stacie and Bryan as part of the Rio for Schools program. I love teaching jewelry making and also love working with other jewelry instructors from around the world. Pauline, do you have a favorite instructor you'd like to spotlight?
Paulene Everett:
Yeah, I actually think you might know her, Kristin Diener. She was teaching classes at UNM for a little while and it was through, it wasn't through UNM, but it was the outside program that UNM has. And I was taking some of her classes before COVID. And they were beginner classes and I had already been making jewelry for a while, but I like to keep up and take more classes and just even beginner classes, you can still learn new stuff from people, even if you think you know everything. That's how it is in the jewelry world. You ask a hundred questions to one jeweler and they're going to give you a hundred different answers. But I think that it's one of those things where just to keep going, you have to keep learning. And I did learn a lot from her, even as just a beginner class.
And I had been making jewelry for about five years now. So Kristin taught me a lot of really cool things. And then I took a Keum-Boo class through her, but the instructor was Renata Sur, I think is her name? But it was just Keum-Boo and it was just a really basic intro into Keum-Boo. But I use that information all the time now. So those are two people that are local to me, at least are local here. And those are two people that I learned a lot from. I haven't taken any new classes lately, but I did learn a lot from them. It was a good experience.
Mark Nelson:
And you're on the tech team too, so you're learning on the job every day.
Paulene Everett:
Right.
Mark Nelson:
So that's cool, man.
Paulene Everett:
What about you? You have specific, I know you talked to so many people and so many different kinds of instructors and all over the world. Do you have anybody that pops out to you, maybe your favorite right now?
Mark Nelson:
I was really hoping you wouldn't ask me that.
Paulene Everett:
Pick three.
Mark Nelson:
You got to know, man, I'm one of the most spoiled people in the world. I've worked with the best. I've studied with them too, I trying to list off names and I had to give up after 30 minutes. People that I learned the most from are students. My students because they're like, "I want to do this." And I'm like, "Well, you're crazy. You can't do that."
Paulene Everett:
You can't do that.
Mark Nelson:
And they end up doing it. I'm like, "Okay, note to self, put that in my book."
Paulene Everett:
You can do that.
Mark Nelson:
But right now, I'm really loving William Vanaria, I hope I'm saying his last name right. He's an instructor over at Metalwerx and he has a very active Instagram page. And I love his work to begin with. I'm very impressed with it. But his style of teaching is very easy to understand, but so it's from an artist's point of view and a technical point of view. And he's gone through a couple posts on his Instagram where he's had to tackle a technical issue and he breaks out the books, man. He contacts James Binnion and all the big tech guys and comes up with a scientific explanation of why it happened.
Paulene Everett:
And see you and I probably like that stuff because that's how we think, because we've been doing technical stuff for so long that we think that way. And I think when you break it down for the people who are in our industry, I think it helps us learn better because now we have the why, because I'm sure a lot of us are like, "Well, why? Why does it work?"
Mark Nelson:
And William does that.
Paulene Everett:
Yeah, that's great.
Mark Nelson:
So he breaks down the science and gives it back out there in a way you understand it. So yeah, I'm loving him.
Paulene Everett:
And so he's just doing that for free on Instagram?
Mark Nelson:
Yeah, just join his page, follow him on Instagram.
Paulene Everett:
That's awesome.
Mark Nelson:
And he teaches classes at Metalwerx and they're really good classes too.
Paulene Everett:
I'll have to look into that because I've made friends with some of the Metalwerx people like Kristian Chica, who is going through a hard time right now. But all my hope and love out to her. But I've learned a lot from those people as well. And it's interesting to see the different perspectives of different instructors. And it's cool when you're learning how to teach better. And I feel like I learn the best from other teachers to teach information better. Even though I'm not really an educator, but I am educating people. I feel like it is really important to see how other people explain and steal their tips and tricks too.
Mark Nelson:
Sure. Sure. Especially on delivery, how do you communicate and that kind of stuff because every student's going to be different.
Paulene Everett:
Right. So I think on the note of us being technical and us learning how to give instruction, we also love to learn how to communicate with customers or even just intermingle with people in the industry. Because even if we're not trying to learn something, I feel like we do learn from our customers and our community. And I feel like trade shows and expos are a really great way for that because we spend a lot of time talking to people through email or phone calls, and then we actually get to meet those people in person and you're like, "Oh, I have a name to the face." And tech, we get to go to a lot of these trade shows and we get to meet a lot of different people. And I find that I really do build a better connection within the community doing that.
And then this year, I'm actually looking forward to a lot of the trade shows. I'm going to be at a few. To start off, we're going to MJSA expo in New York City, March 10th through 12th. And then we've got JCK in Las Vegas, May 31st to June 3rd. PGX in Las Vegas, June 4th to sixth, which is my baby. I am a love of permanent jewelry and on the advisory board, I would love to see a lot of people there. APP in Las Vegas, June 23rd to 26th. And then in-store, Chicago, August 11th and 12th. Be sure to stop by and say hello. Let us know what you think about the podcast, and then if you've talked to me on the phone and you recognize my voice, please come say hi to me. I love meeting our customers and communicating with all of you.
Mark Nelson:
That's all for today's show. A huge thank you to Stacie Smith and Bryan Petersen for joining the show today and to talk about their teaching programs up in Bozeman, Montana. It's such a pleasure to work with amazing instructors like them and to get to know more about the important work they're doing by educating the next generation of jewelers. And a big thank you to today's sponsor, Swanstrom Tools, when you're looking for quality, trust Swanstrom for the results you need. If you have a question you would like answered on the show or want to submit ideas for future episodes, email us at podcast@riogrande.com. Until next time, thank you for listening and have a great day.