“It chose me,” Sarah Williamson declares about her career as a custom bridal jewelry designer. Drawn by the challenge of creating one-of-a-kind engagement rings that maintain a timeless look and feel, Sarah’s bridal line, Precious Ghost, represents countless bench hours spent on intricately crafting small rings symbolic of the love between two people. While a vintage, minimalist designer at heart, her jewelry is often detailed, futuristic and non-traditional. Sarah works with ethically sourced, artisan-cut stones that exhibit rare colors and unique features. While she admits her process can be frustrating, her genuine mistakes can positively render a customer speechless and her benevolence in promoting We Wield the Hammer is remarkable. Join Sarah Williamson as she shares stories from her well-travelled creative path.
“It chose me,” Sarah Williamson declares about her career as a custom bridal jewelry designer. Drawn by the challenge of creating one-of-a-kind engagement rings that maintain a timeless look and feel, Sarah’s bridal line, Precious Ghost, represents countless bench hours spent on intricately crafting small rings symbolic of the love between two people. While a vintage, minimalist designer at heart, her jewelry is often detailed, futuristic and non-traditional. Sarah works with ethically sourced, artisan-cut stones that exhibit rare colors and unique features. While she admits her process can be frustrating, her genuine mistakes can positively render a customer speechless and her benevolence in promoting We Wield the Hammer is remarkable. Join Sarah Williamson as she shares stories from her well-travelled creative path.
Courtney Gray :
Hey, guys. We're here with Sarah Williamson in Nevada City in California. So welcome.
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. Thank you. It's nice to talk to you again. It's been many years since I've been to your school.
Courtney Gray :
I know. What was that? Five years, four years?
Sarah Williamson:
Oh, man. I would've guessed too, but you're probably right.
Courtney Gray :
We start losing track of time I think the older that we get. But I used to be able to nail it. That was six months ago. No, not anymore.
Sarah Williamson:
I can keep track of time with the projects that I was working on at the time. If I could see those, then I have a better idea of how long ago it was.
Courtney Gray :
That was kind of a timeline for you. My work was clear at this stage. Now, that's smart. That's very cool. Yeah. You got to study with Thomas Dailing, who's a huge award-winning brother duo of Jim Dailing, and they're both fabulous guys. That was such a fun week to have you in Austin. Well, tell me a little bit... I want to share with our community a little bit about where you started jewelry, why you picked the craft, and what led you to really doing this really kind of futuristic. I love your work, the look of it, the quality, I can see your commitment to it and just kind of want to hear where you started with all of this. Was there a certain mentor or a timeframe for that?
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah, it's funny you say that. I would not say that I even specifically chose jewelry. I was kind of floating around. I think out of high school, I might've started going down a few different routes that I don't know that I would have been happy. Perhaps, I would have been. But there were all creative outlets. I looked into doing CGI animation or doing this and that. I can't even remember. Film was an interest at one point, and I just didn't feel like I was ready to commit.
Sarah Williamson:
So I took a year off, and I started traveling. Then I just didn't stop traveling. Somewhere along the line, I learned to make like wire wrap pendant and continued from there. I went really far with that, and that's led me to where I am today. So it was a very gradual process, and I would say I started with actually fabrication and working with torches and all those things later in the... It's probably been over 10 years by now, but I didn't start out that way. I started out very low key with flyers and such. So-
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. Things you could do on the road, I would guess, right? Wire-wrapping and-
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. I would say it shows me it's kind of the long and the short of it. I didn't really have much of a say. I'm not even much of a jewelry aware myself.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. I get that. I get that. It shows you, I think that we just kind of stay open-minded and just listen and follow the signs that are coming at us. We typically find out where we're supposed to be. It changes. Yeah. Very cool. So yeah. I kind of assumed your work started with wire-wrapping. It's a gateway tool, for sure, and the style that I'm seeing you create. But now you're doing really fine jewelry, like custom wedding rings and engagement jewelry. Are you loving that part of this and working in precious metal?
Sarah Williamson:
I like the creative challenge. I like to design in a lot of different styles. So some of the styles you see are where I have been led with the clients on the journey of what they're looking for. My personal tastes are really minimal, starting with the gemstones, but I tend to navigate towards really classic, simple things for anything that I'm going to wear. But I'll take the input from the clients, and I will try to interpret that in a way, and they'll combine classical elements with... Basically, I try to do a really crazy piece of jewelry. That's why they're coming to me. But then I really try to incorporate classic elements into it, to maintain a timeless look and feel.
Sarah Williamson:
I try to make sure the rings are wearable, they're not high prong settings, things like that. Because I want my jewelry to stand the test of time aesthetically, design-wise, and the best part about it for me, I think I got a little distracted with that answer is connecting with the people that I'm making the rings for. It's so much fun to be involved in their stories, and I can't even tell you how many times I've had clients make me cry because they're just so sweet and so considerate.
Courtney Gray :
That's awesome. So you're really liking that one-on-one, the custom-
Sarah Williamson:
It's a lot at the same time. I have to find the right balance of what I can offer people that I work with. Some people want a lot of your time and want to be talking on the phone and an unreasonable amount of time. So I have developed a guideline in a way that I like to work. If people want to work with me, they can. If they don't, that's fine. If they don't want to-
Courtney Gray :
[crosstalk 00:05:07].
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. Yeah. I define my boundaries just upfront, and I find out what they want and if I can meet their expectations. If I can't meet the expectations, I'll say that I'm not the jeweler for them.
Courtney Gray :
Maybe refer them to somebody else or just-
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. No is a perfectly fine answer. I think that's the beauty of running your own business. I think you might agree is that you really do get to say yes or no to the work that you want to do now. I don't know if it was always like that for beginners.
Sarah Williamson:
No. No. That's the thing is that's the goal is you want to be able to get to a point where you can choose your projects. Right now, I don't use a lot of clients stones, lots of reasons for that, but you end up in a pickle, and you're liable for the gemstones and different things, and I want to have as much creative control as possible. So now I'm finally at a point 16 years maybe into making jewelry where I can I can choose the projects a little bit more, where you know when you're younger, you're taking what you can to get by.
Courtney Gray :
For sure.
Sarah Williamson:
You should try new creative things. From that, I have learned that if I don't have a good rapport with a client or there certain warning signs, I will step away at the beginning now instead of continuing for... Because no matter how much they're paying me, it's not worth it. At the end of the day, the stress, and if my goal is to create something beautiful and exceed their expectations, if we have this communication issue, it's not going to work out in the end from my experience.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. It's not going to end-
Sarah Williamson:
It's [crosstalk 00:06:53]-
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. I think that's really logical. Yeah. We don't want to take on anything that doesn't feel right or isn't a good match. I think that shows a lot of integrity to share that with your clients upfront. I always try to do that too and just say, "What's the budget? Does it fit? Does this work for us? Are we going to work well together? Am I capable of doing what you need?" Yeah. It saves a lot of heartache.
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah, for sure.
Courtney Gray :
For sure, in the long run. Yeah. So before custom, you were making one-off pieces, or just kind of did you have a line of jewelry?
Sarah Williamson:
I still do a little bit of this. If I was to explain my business to someone that hasn't seen what I do, I have a more of... Instead of a jewelry brand, I'm an art jeweler, first and foremost. So I am approaching everything in that way. I do a lot of custom one-off pieces. So it was a lot more pendants and bracelets and different things like that, and it has evolved into bridal lately. But I am still doing those other things and often just for fun making things that are for sale.
Sarah Williamson:
So I've started a brand where I'm kind of separating the bridal stuff and the brand's called Precious Ghost Jewelry. So I can customize all those designs. I can replicate, and blah, blah, blah, and customize it with different stones. The paradigm jewelry and my more art jewelry stuff is I'm not going to copy someone's wedding ring if I really sit through paradigm jewelry. I'm going to do a custom order. It's going to cost you a little bit more. But you're going to kind of have that exclusivity. So I am balancing on this tight rope of I want to make art for a living, but I also have to make a living. To be honest, those big, crazy art pieces aren't really the best things to pay the pay the bills.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. You can compromise.
Sarah Williamson:
At the end of the day, maybe you made $10 an hour, and I have many pieces that have put hundreds of hours into. So they're passion projects.
Courtney Gray :
Well, and in Saul Bell Design Award winner piece was one of those, wouldn't you say? Or was that an art project?
Sarah Williamson:
That was an interesting one. I was like, "I'm going to enter Saul Bell," and I decided I was going to win also because that's what you should do. That's a mindset I think you should go into it with. I was like, "I'm not going to enter it." [inaudible 00:09:21]. That one was interesting because I designed in a different way instead of me doing a design and then staring at it and changing it 80 times and just letting that marinate for months. You'll be in the shower, and you'll be like, "Oh, I solved my problem."
Sarah Williamson:
So I got the main stone for that piece. I knew it had to be a stunner that arrived to me 10 days before the deadline. So I had to just go, go, go, go, go. The granulation work, if anyone's most familiar with the granulation is everything is handmade. So I had to make the alloy. I had to roll out the sheet. The granules are pre-made, but I had to just do all the forming on the spot, and I really didn't have any time. I didn't even have any time to do any drawing. I just started making shapes and working with that. That's an interesting design exercise that forces you to make decisions, and you just have to roll with it and be confident in the decision that you've made because you can't go back and second guess and change.
Courtney Gray :
Right. Right. So you decided you were going to win. I love that.
Sarah Williamson:
I have-
Courtney Gray :
I'm not even entering this if I don't win. I love that.
Sarah Williamson:
I have quite been involved travel as well. I was like, "This is what's going to happen. My mother and father are going to come, going to drive out there. I'm going to see New Mexico." I want to put my mind to things I can usually make them work out.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. I find that to be true. That's awesome. That's great. Paving the way. It's like really without envisioning, you think what you want and saying it out loud and just moving toward in that direction. It's hard to make anything happen for yourself. So are you-
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. So highly involved.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah, absolutely. A lot of times, you reached them. Absolutely. I love that. You did wire-wrapping, and then you moved into the finer metals and this 18-carat granulation. Are you doing engraving now to, Sarah and looking at the work?
Sarah Williamson:
I do hand-engraving. I do hand-engraving. I do lapidary work. I'm starting to do more carving and stonework. I've taught myself to facet during the pandemic. Yeah. Hand engraving, granulation. I've been doing faceting. Yeah. I mean-
Courtney Gray :
So are you the one touching the piece from start to finish, or yeah [crosstalk 00:11:48]-
Sarah Williamson:
Some of the pieces, yeah. Some of the pieces, I will... Even recently, I have just made these knobs for my van where I found the rocks in the river. I brought them home. I cut them, polished them and made cabinet knobs with them. What I'm trying to do is I'm trying to offer jewelry that people literally can't get anywhere else. The way to really open that door is having more access to the laboratory work and the stones and creating a gemstone that didn't exist before and that nobody can buy, and it was only one. So that's something that I can offer to my clients to make what they are wearing unique. Yeah.
Courtney Gray :
So Sarah, just talk to us a little bit about making a piece of jewelry. We talked earlier. You mentioned the love, hate relationship with some of the processes. I think it's so real and so true. One of the questionnaires that went out there was like, "What do you hate about jewelry making?" It was polishing. Everybody answered the same things. So talk to me about how it feels like from start to finish.
Sarah Williamson:
Well, I started saying to you, in a way I dislike almost every part of the process of making things, sometimes, and the engraving. It's a pain in the ass. It's high stress. You can make a mistake really easily. It's incredibly frustrating. Faceting, I've just begun to learn to facet recently during the pandemic. It's really boring. You're sitting there for a really long time, and you're just moving a thing back and forth.
Sarah Williamson:
So of course, one of my favorite parts is the part where I'm finished. But it's not even really that. I think if I was to sit there and try to break it down, all of it is so frustrating sometimes. But at the same time, I absolutely love it, and I get up every day, and I want to go to work right away, and that's what I'm thinking about. I love plotting out the pieces. I love all of the steps. Actually doing them can be very frustrating sometimes.
Sarah Williamson:
But in the end, you end up this thing that never existed before, and you just put all this energy into creating. So it's like a love, hate thing is kind of what I'm trying to get at. A more articulate person probably could have described that a little bit better, but I've had people ask me what my favorite part of the jewelry processes, and I'm like, "I'm done, God." It's a [inaudible 00:14:10].
Courtney Gray :
Delivering it-
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah, exactly.
Courtney Gray :
... to the person. Right? Yeah.
Sarah Williamson:
Sometimes I just see a piece of jewelry on Instagram, and I look at it, and it is absolutely wonderful. I go, "God, I'm tired looking at that." I know what that took.
Courtney Gray :
Right. Yeah. The blood, sweat, and tears, so to speak that goes into it. So it seems, like most jewelers, you're probably like the troubleshooting part a little bit though, too, because otherwise, you wouldn't get up and go into the studio every day.
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. I've always said that jewelry making is creative problem-solving, because you constantly are just addressing issues, and every part of your day, and yeah, just trouble solving because there can be five different ways to do the same thing, and which one is the best in which application.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. Well, and you have quite a few tools in your toolbox too, at this point with the... The granulation is looking amazing. You were working with Kent Raible to learn.
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. I met with Raible.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. Tell us a little bit about the biggest mentors in the industry or the biggest in life even. Doesn't even have to be industry specific.
Sarah Williamson:
The jewelry industry, there's been some really wonderful. Kent in particular is really wonderful, and he helped me a lot. All of the people that I have worked with and have spent their time teaching me have been really wonderful. Dylan Hargrave invited a group of us out to his property in Texas, and we all learned to facet. That was actually years ago that I went and did that with a group of six, seven, to nine of my friends, my peers. All of them were male. I was the only female there.
Sarah Williamson:
It was a working competition. We're competing against each other in a sense to learn, and we were all just barely even stopping to eat or having drinks or trying to learn as much as we can, and eventually, we had to be told to go to sleep. It would be 4:00 in the morning, and they're like, "Okay, guys. Got to go to bed."
Courtney Gray :
Wow. Yeah.
Sarah Williamson:
You were just so excited to be in there, and there was this... I mean, I don't know who we would have been competing against each other. There's no prize. We were just having a lot of fun-
Courtney Gray :
Maybe-
Sarah Williamson:
... being together, and it's just that creative energy of working with people.
Courtney Gray :
Sounds so fun. Yeah. Like a bootcamp on faceting and finally getting into somebody's studio that you admire. Every waking moment is devoted to just learning and absorbing the person's knowledge. It sounds like a blast.
Sarah Williamson:
Sure. If I want us to say I had a mentor outside of the jewelry industry, I don't think... She was just an inspiring person. It was a girl. When I was younger, I would go to the farmer's market, and I just liked being around handmade things. This girl, she had a hemp clothing company, some kind. Basically, she just ran a successful business, and she was just a really happy person. People love to be around her. She did really well with her business. For me, it was the first time I'd ever seen a woman be successful in business in that way. I didn't really have any other examples. In a way, that appealed to me. She was doing her own thing, and she kind of exuded this positivity and independence, and it all worked really well.
Sarah Williamson:
So she probably doesn't even know it. We still talk from time to time. But as a 15-year-old, seeing her success was really inspiring for me. I grew up in a very conservative area, and I didn't really have any positive role models like that.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. It's impressive to see. I think anybody standing out on their own independent like that, and it's such an influential age that I can see where that would make a big effect for you.
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. She was doing it in her way, which was what was appealing. It's not just seeing a woman run a business. It was seeing a woman run her business on her own terms and being successful. I think the success was how happy she was every time you saw her.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. Yeah. Well, how do you... So that says a lot to me about how you measure success for yourself too. It's about joy. It's not about money or-
Sarah Williamson:
Sure.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?
Sarah Williamson:
I mean, if I wanted to be more "successful", I could go live in a city, and I could go have a brand in a store and more employees, and I could do that kind of thing, and I don't want to. For me being happy is I have never had to live in a city except for when I studied at Revere Academy years ago. That was the only time I stayed for a few months. But I have pretty much always lived in small towns, small little farming communities and stuff like that, and I'm like, "That's what I like." I like to wake up with trees. I like silence, and that is success to me, like having a kind of life that I want." So I could have more work, and I could have more money, but that's not going to make me happy.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. Yeah. You're getting by, and you're making it work with-
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. Making that work.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. Awesome. Well, I know you too, I mean, when I met you years ago that travel's a really important part of your life, and you get all those things, you kind of get glued to a place, and I can see where you would like to keep yourself a little bit more free to jump on the motorcycle, jump in your van and take off. How often do you get to travel? I know right now it's kind of weird, but-
Sarah Williamson:
It has become more difficult. Over the last few years, I'm not necessarily as wild as I once was. But that's untrue. [inaudible 00:20:05] but maybe just not saying yes to everything. A lot of the times, if there was a jewelry class or some kind of opportunity maybe to go mining gems or something like that, I would just be like, "Okay, yes. That was a yes person." Then when I'm on that trip, I'm like, "Oh, should we stop here? There's more yeses." As often as possible, which is really great, but it's also really exhausting.
Sarah Williamson:
Travel, it's been super important for me to just connect and meet lots of new, interesting, amazing people on the way, and that's kind of my thing that I like to do. I like to be in places where there is nobody, and I don't have phone service and go hike up a mountain. So it's a good way to disconnect and find balance for me.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. For sure. Get in some nature and tune out. Right? Unplug for a little bit. Talk to me about mining. So you've actually been out mining and digging for rocks and the earth and-
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. It's a little bit of a distinction. There's the full-scale mining and all that. Let's say rockhounding, I feel like I might be insulting somebody who's actually doing the work. Like I said, I want to find as many ways as I can to get more involved in a piece of jewelry that I'm making like through faceting and whatever. So the next step is to actually find the gemstone on its own. So over the years I've wrote kind of for diamonds and amethyst in Canada, and we did a little ladies trip, me and a couple other jewelers. We did a little turquoise mining trip in the Royston area of Nevada, and in a recent road trip, I was collecting agates and petrified wood and different things I found in the river while we were fishing and-
Courtney Gray :
And elk horns? Right? Was it elk that you were bringing back from Albuquerque?
Sarah Williamson:
Oh, no. That was my friend had given me some elk meat.
Courtney Gray :
Oh, elk meat. I was like, "What do you pack in your backpack, girl?" All right, cool.
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. I mean, and that's just another way to spend time outside for me.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah, absolutely.
Sarah Williamson:
To be clear to anyone who hasn't seen my work, it's not really what I use if I work the stones that I'm finding. But-
Courtney Gray :
There's something about that though. Yeah. If you guys haven't seen Sarah's work, it's time to definitely pull up her website and check it out. It extremely is inspiring. It's very unique. I love your aesthetic and just how you're approaching each piece. You can tell, like you described earlier that you're just making decisions as you go. But there is also kind of a plan in place as well. So I don't know. I love that. I love where your work is headed. Sarah Williamson, if we google you, we will find. We'll also put some links in the-
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah, @paradigmjewelry in Instagram is probably the best place to see my work, websites. I've never really been able to keep them updated, but we're working on overhauling everything in the new year.
Courtney Gray :
Nice. Welcome to the club. Yeah. So is Instagram going to be the main way that you find your your clients? I'm curious about, how are you maintaining client base? Where are they finding you? Yeah. Pricing. So I have a few questions for you about that.
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. So I'm in this unique position where... So I have lived in small towns my entire life, and I've had to find ways to make that work. So it began literally with my space and things like that. There's this little community of jewelers, and I was a part of this like special kind of melting pot thing that was happening. So I have a following of people, really wonderful supportive clientele, and a lot of them have just been following me, and I've never necessarily purchased anything, and then 15 years down the road, it's time for an engagement ring, and they're like, "I'm finally reaching out to you."
Sarah Williamson:
So I have this community of people that have been with me throughout the years, which is a really wonderful. So it's always been online, and I'm always posting lots of pictures of the process. I have a lot of jewelers that follow me. So it's really just constantly been on social media and through the people that have followed me for my artwork.
Courtney Gray :
For those years, yeah. Well, I call that planting seeds. Right? You never know when they're going to sprout, and it's so important to have that kind of following in community. So then you just ping them and stay in their face and show new work? Is that how you-
Sarah Williamson:
I'm just making things. I think especially with engagement rings, people want something that they can't find anywhere else. They want something special, and they want something very unique because they're like, "This person, I am absolutely in love with and want to spend the rest of my life with. There is no ring unique enough for them." I think it's one of the most challenging jobs. Maybe for some people, it's not that intense of a thing. But you are taking the love between two people and putting it in this tiny one-inch square, this tiny little object, and I'm like, "How do you go about doing that?" It's a lot of pressure, and it's a good challenge. I guess I like challenges.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. Rings are challenging because it's got a function. You're wearing it every day.
Sarah Williamson:
You wear it in space.
Courtney Gray :
Yup. Limited-
Sarah Williamson:
Aesthetically. Some of my rings are very wild, but I do like to try to keep it with that classic element, like I said, because I don't want you to be going into redesigning your ring in 20 years.
Courtney Gray :
Right. Yeah. They need to have longevity and speak for the person and represent them well. It is a lot of pressure, isn't it? Yeah. It's important. I would say it's important. So it takes a bit of time and commitment and communication with your client. Talk to me about pricing. I know it's a big struggle for a lot of us as makers is, how the heck do we price our work?
Sarah Williamson:
It is very difficult, especially right now where things are being made so cheaply, and there's a lot of disinformation. I guess a lot of folks don't really know a ton about jewelry. So there's a lot of people who are kind of taking advantage of that and selling kind of these cheap things, and then people ask, "Why is this this much over here, and you're asking this much." I'm always just very clear upfront I'm not the cheapest. I'm not going to try to be. What you're going to come to me for is my work and pricing.
Courtney Gray :
Quality.
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. I kind of lost my train of thought there. We start this over again.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah, sure. Just kind of start from there. We'll do a little sound for my editor. Yeah. Take a deep breath, and have a drink of water, and yeah, I think just share what you can about that, and we can move on to not a big topic that we have to focus on.
Sarah Williamson:
Was the question how we go about pricing?
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. Or just like, what is that?
Sarah Williamson:
Okay. I can go. Yeah. So how we go about pricing.
Courtney Gray :
It depends on the piece, I would think and who you're working with, who you're working for. A lot of it to me is like, what will the market bear? Because that changes. But we also want to be very fair and charge what our... We have to value ourselves at some point. We have to value our work. I think there's stages of that. For me, I started at $250 base price, and then I moved to a thousand, and now I just can't really do anything under a certain amount because of the materials, the price of materials, all of that, the time, like you said, that it takes to get into a custom process with somebody. We have to account for all of those hours and efforts and expertise that you've gained over the years too.
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. The framework that I've come to now for rings is that I have a $5,000 minimum for a custom ring and that allows me to number one, spend extra time on it. It allows me to use a fairly nice stone. I use a lot of colored sapphires, diamonds as well, froze-cut diamonds and all these different things. But it allows me at that minimum to use a nice stone. It allows me to have room for accent stones, possibly engraving, or possibly use platinum. If you start wanting all of those things, the price is obviously going to go up. But it allows me to use quality stones, and it allows me to have some fun creatively, and those are the kinds of projects that I want to take on.
Sarah Williamson:
Then I'm also offering designs through Precious Ghost, where you can choose a design that I've already done. I can alter it a little bit, and I can add different stones, and I have a lot of sapphires-
Courtney Gray :
Nice.
Sarah Williamson:
and stuff right now. So those can be anywhere between 1,000 to 3,500. So that just makes it more accessible, where you can get a really cool, unique ring that I've designed, but it doesn't have this really high starting point, because it's not really feasible for a lot of people.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. The one of a kind stamp.
Sarah Williamson:
I don't want to ever feel too exclusive. I want to be able to be as accessible as possible.
Courtney Gray :
Makes sense. I love that. I know that sustainable materials and jewelry is an important part of your work. From what I know of you, Sarah, I'm probably even more now. Do you want to talk a little bit about... I mean, obviously you're a woman digging some of those rocks out of the earth yourself and touching every piece, and I really love that. Talk to me about importance in your eyes and in understanding materials and resources and how they're moving and the potential lack thereof eventually.
Sarah Williamson:
I find the jewelry industry can be pretty difficult, and it's changed a lot in the last bunch of years. I've been going to the gym shows every year for 15, 16 years. This will be the first year I don't go. Asking for a fairly source gemstone was not a thing that you could do. Nobody seemed to care, and I was watching all these people. I'm like, "They're just living in this fallacy, this world's that's like, 'Do they not care where these things come from?'" Everybody's wearing their fancy suits from doing the whole thing.
Sarah Williamson:
For me, it's just not my personality. I didn't understand how people could be so disconnected because in my personal life, I'm trying to be conscious of the things I consume. Do I need this, or do I want it? I'm trying to have as minimal of an impact, which I say that, but I look at the tools and the things in my studio, and it's difficult. But with sourcing jewelry materials and stones, there's become so much more awareness in the last bunch of years to these topics.
Sarah Williamson:
You actually are beginning to have a lot more direct contact with where your stones are coming from. It's like the veil, it's lifting a little bit, and there's a little bit more transparency here and a little bit more transparency there. So it depends on the gemstone. It depends on so many different things using recycled metals and such. They're all great, but really just trying to encourage more transparency in the process, the mining of the gemstones, the cutting of the gemstones.
Sarah Williamson:
So there's really wonderful programs like the gym legacy and the things that they're doing. I'm not super familiar with their program. But if a gemstone is, say mined in Tanzania, I think it makes sense that the opportunities are given to people in Tanzania to cut their own stones and provide more jobs and more money into the local economy versus sending things overseas. So having that more transparency will increase the way in which it's going to be done is like-
Courtney Gray :
It's kind of paving the future. Like you said before, we need to all be conscious of this, I think and-
Sarah Williamson:
It's striving towards fair and equitable pay and all these different things is kind of what I was trying to get at with the lifting of that veil. So I tell people when it comes to gemstones and things because they're a cheap for a reason. So consider that when you're looking into making your purchases, so for me, if I can... I want to spend more money on a quality product where I know people have been treated fairly the entire way through the supply chain.
Courtney Gray :
I like that. Yeah. That's awesome. I think it's super important. We were talking too just about kind of advocating for other programs in the industry, and there's a lot of new things popping up right now with the changes in the world and everything that's going on, which a lot of it to me is actually really exciting. I know we're going through a period of change. There's a lot of loss happening. There's a lot of shifting. But what I'm seeing is actually people are beefing up their online sales. They're finding ways to communicate and to reach out to each other and to collaborate differently.
Courtney Gray :
So Sarah, tell me a little bit, I know that you have a relationship. You're not involved in the program itself, but have been making sure that people are aware about what Karen Smith is doing with We Wield The Hammer. Can you just tell me quickly about that program and what your thoughts are around that and maybe how we can help?
Sarah Williamson:
I think Karen has developed... This program isn't something that she's been working on, and I feel like it's a seed that has been planted for a while. Karen is trying to increase access and opportunity for women of African descent to enter the jewelry industry in any way, whether it be through on a recreational level or possibly on an employment level. She's trying to just open the door to be the access, to increase representation in the jewelry industry. There's a lot of challenges that these women face. So just removing the barriers of the cost, for example of the classes, jewelry is an expensive profession. We all know this. like we've all just dumped money into the tools. So there's the tools, and then there's the time and the opportunity and access to the education, obviously.
Sarah Williamson:
So she's started this program in Oakland, California. It's on hiatus right now. But it has a lot of potential to be a really amazing thing to mentor the next generation of young black jewelers. So we want to see change locally. Local is the jewelry industry for me and also technically opens kind of local. It's not that far away. I'm a few hours from Oakland. But Karen, what we're doing now, she needs a space for the program to operate.
Sarah Williamson:
So we're just trying to raise money for her. So I've connected her with the people that I knew at Rio Grande because I knew Rio Grande's a really wonderful company, and they are advocates, and they're trying to do their best to be their best. So Rio has now been working with We Wield The Hammer, and like I said, I'm not involved in the program. I'm just trying to help raise money for the program.
Sarah Williamson:
I have asked some of my stone-cutter friends to cut a stone, and then I have paired those stonecutters with jewelers. So we have stonecutters like Dalan Hargrave, Derek Katzenbach. We have Anna Gilbert as well. There's six stonecutters and six jewelers. So the stonecutters have all now at this point cut their stone, and the jewelers are going to make a piece of jewelry with that, and we're going to auction them off.
Courtney Gray :
Very well.
Sarah Williamson:
So yeah. We're going to do more of like a raffle style fundraising situation. So I think there's a lot of potential to raise a considerable amount of money I'm hoping for the program. Yeah. That's going to actually be launching soon. I have three of the finished pieces of jewelry right now in-house, very excited. I'm going to photograph them all, and we're waiting on myself to finish and my friend, Everett Whitethorn and Karen herself who runs the program is also making a piece of jewelry with a turquoise that I cut for her. So it's a great way to get us all being creative and using our creativity to raise some money for the program.
Courtney Gray :
Very cool. Yeah. I hope that she finds a lot of success with that, and it sounds like she's got a great support system already in the works. Yeah. I'm excited that you guys are advocating for that and making sure that again, then there's awareness about it, and we'll be sure and put some links so that folks know how to find how they can support that too. As Tim McCreight said, and Matthieu Cheminée, it's like, "Let us give for you by..." They would go over and hand out tools. So it's kind of a way that you can give back through others who are so deeply involved or working towards something. So I think it's definitely a time to be collaborating as much as we can and supporting each other, especially with schools and education. I mean, we're talking about the next generation of makers here.
Sarah Williamson:
For sure.
Courtney Gray :
A lot of the schools are suffering. A lot of the programming needs support right now. So I find that very important. So let's get back to Sarah. Thanks for sharing about that. I have a quick question for you about apprenticeships and mentoring. Have you ever taken on a mentor or been approached to teach?
Sarah Williamson:
To mentor someone else?
Courtney Gray :
Well, I asked you to teach a few years.
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. Teach you.
Courtney Gray :
I probably asked you three or four times, and you were like, "No, not yet." But-
Sarah Williamson:
To be honest, I feel like I'm a student still, and I would not even know what I would teach. I was like, "Would it be this? Would it be that? I'm not sure. Would it be a free-form style class?" I'm open to it in the future. I'd love the opportunity. I just recently met a woman here in Nevada city who runs a jewelry program at one of the cooperative kind of art collective places. She's really wonderful. She's asked me to teach in the past as well. I'm hoping to do something locally. But I just don't know what it would be.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. Not yet. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Williamson:
I've got that student mindset. Teaching feels like I'd be exposing to people to all my bad habits.
Courtney Gray :
Well, which is part of it too is like seeing the errors that... leveling the playing field and seeing that, "Oh, even the master jewelers are the ones who've been at it for over a decade or more." They still make mistakes, and it's about kind of like being okay with that process and the skinny spots, as I call them.
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. It's all about problem-solving.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. But you do have employees, right? How many employees are you?
Sarah Williamson:
I have an employee right now, and she's really wonderful. I think that's the biggest challenge for me has been to find someone and to know how to use them in the most effective way. I probably could admit to having a control problem with like... I need to really have the... I need to know that the outcome is going to be top-notch, is going to meet my quality standards. You spend a lot of time training people sometimes, and then it doesn't seem to stick, or it just depends. You have to find the right fit.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. It's got to be the right fit.
Sarah Williamson:
The person I have right now is really wonderful. She's been a great friend for years and couldn't even imagine having an argument with her. We just get along super well because I spend most of my waking hours "working". So the person that I'm going to be around with, I want to enjoy that time with them.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. We-
Sarah Williamson:
So we get along super great, and her studio, I can open my door right now. I'm 10 feet from my door, and then I'm four feet from her door. I know she's there right now. So-
Courtney Gray :
She's listening. She's listening you say nice things.
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. Yeah. So it's been really great to have her around. Finding the right person is a big challenge. So probably, like anything in life, things that worked easily can often be the best.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. Yeah. It should flow. It should make sense.
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. It should flow. But it's taken me a lot of years to get to this point to have enough work. I had an employee move across the country to work for me, and that didn't... It was okay, but I found I was just trying to make work, and I was spending all my time on the computer and hustling and doing these things, and the skill level wasn't really there for me, so-
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. Managing people takes a lot of time as well and training [crosstalk 00:42:07]-
Sarah Williamson:
I'm trying to [crosstalk 00:42:08] that's not a manager. It's not [inaudible 00:42:10].
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. What would you say to somebody out there who is like, "Man, I would really like to work with her or learn from her or be interviewed to work for her"?
Sarah Williamson:
I have a lot to say on the topic actually, because I get asked very, very frequently. I get asked in a way where... First of all, people don't send me a resume. The first person I ever hired, the girl was just talking about, she sent me a resume. So approach me in a professional manner shows me that you respect me. Instead of approaching me... Oftentimes what people do is, how can I be? How can I learn that? All these things revolving around themselves. What can I take from you is kind of how I feel. I'm constantly being approached. Tell me what you can do for me when you approach me to ask for work or ask for an apprenticeship, because I feel like a lot of people want to just come here, learn what they can and then go and do their own thing, and that's not what I need. That's not a good...
Sarah Williamson:
I think that probably applies just in general in life. You need to take a step back and be of service to others in order to learn. If you want the benefits, you can't just say, "Can I have what you have?"
Courtney Gray :
Right. I think it's-
Sarah Williamson:
[crosstalk 00:43:36] learn and have patience things. In this social media age, things are just constantly handed to us. You put your card in and... You don't put your card in anything, but-
Courtney Gray :
Be careful what you put your card in.
Sarah Williamson:
You don't get instantaneous results. Jewelry is an old-school craft and there is no substitute for time invested. So-
Courtney Gray :
I love that.
Sarah Williamson:
... invest your time, invest in yourself. You don't need to invest in tools as much as you need to just invest time or gains, designing, drawing, and making the stakes and not getting upset about your mistakes. Because the only thing that is guaranteed is you're going to make... can I swear?
Courtney Gray :
Yeah.
Sarah Williamson:
Oh, yeah. You're going to make some fucking mistakes, and you're going to keep making them, and then you're going to learn to use those mistakes to come up with those creative solutions to those mistakes.
Courtney Gray :
Right. Yeah. Without the mistakes, there's no learning. So if it [crosstalk 00:44:376]-
Sarah Williamson:
It'd be boring, really.
Courtney Gray :
It'd be boring. Yeah. So what-
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah. You can leave a $10,000 diamond on the side of the street in town and be pretty boring.
Courtney Gray :
Oh, really? Now, that's a big mistake. You want to-
Sarah Williamson:
[crosstalk 00:44:48].
Courtney Gray :
All right. We're going to talk a little bit about some of your biggest hurdles here then, and it's a great place to shift into that, Sarah. Like you said, we all mess up. We all make mistakes. Tell me about something that stood out for you or that really created the big learning you and your path.
Sarah Williamson:
Well, one of the more prominent mistakes, I'm probably a little bit distant from it now that I don't get the physical reaction that I used to get was I was making an engagement ring for a client, and the client gave me a really high budget, and a lot of that budget was for time. So the center stone was Moon Steiner, if you guys are familiar with Moon Steiner, aquamarine cut. So really wonderful fantasy cut aquamarine, and it was in platinum, and it was in this style. I don't do a lot of it because I can't really draw it. I have to just make it. I call it future deco.
Sarah Williamson:
So it's just kind of futuristic and kind of have to see it to understand. But making this engagement ring, I'm spending so much time on every little detail of this ring, and I go to set the stone. It's all wax carved, and these stones, these fantasy cuts, it's an abstract shape, and there is... I think it's called concave cutting underneath. I go to set the stone, and I think the last little hammer tap shattered the stone underneath.
Courtney Gray :
Oh, no.
Sarah Williamson:
Just about had a heart attack.
Courtney Gray :
Oh, man.
Sarah Williamson:
There's a thing that happens to me. If I make a mistake and it's likely fixable, I get instance where maybe I have some pliers or something like that. I'll have a reaction like that. But when I make a big mistake, I go silent. I go silent, and I went and laid on the couch and went through all of the emotions and absolute panic attack, but just silent. Because at that point, all of your little hissy fit you're throwing with your pliers isn't going to do you any good. I'm instantly going into... Maybe I'm in a shock state, and then I go into like, "Okay, let's solve this problem right now." So I go into a problem-solving mode, and I mean, that life just happens this way sometimes, but I happen to be going to that. It was a weekend where we studied with Dylan Hargrave learning to facet.
Sarah Williamson:
So I happened to be going to Texas to do this, and I brought this stone with me. The stone, the way it broke, it was underneath, and it was... Let's say I lost about a 10th or 12th of the stone just underneath it. It didn't touch the face of the stone, blah, blah, blah. At the end of the course, Dylan was able to sit down with me, and my client was one of those high-anxiety clients. So there was a lot of... He proposed with the stone. So it was all about the stone. So then I'm breaking the stone that he proposes with.
Courtney Gray :
Oh my God.
Sarah Williamson:
Dylan and I sit down and we look at the stone, and he's like, "Here's my idea." He ends up re-cutting the stone. Now, there is actually a small piece missing in the ring that I made. So now I have taken that stone. It's re-cutting and actually looks a little cooler, but it's a little bit smaller. Then I add another addition to the ring. I basically used my problem-solving skills and ended up like adding a couple little pieces in a stone, and the client was like... When I finished, she was like, "I like it more." So this mistake that was potentially really big financial mistake, really big in a lot of ways for myself and my client and feeling like I broke the trust with the client. I mean, it's not [inaudible 00:49:01]. It happens.
Sarah Williamson:
But the goal is that they're happy, and he ended up being like, "I like this more. I can't believe what you did." I got to actually handle over that ring. I don't get to do that often, but I happened to be in Colorado. So I hand-delivered the ring, and he just sat there looking at it 10, 15 minutes straight, and I'm not even exaggerating. He was absolutely thrilled with the outcome, but that was probably one of the best examples I have of on the steak that we took, and we came up with solutions and solved the problem and made something better.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I call those happy accidents. It's like, "Well, what do we do now? How do we adjust our goal here?" When it works out, that's lovely. But there's that moment where it's like, "Oh my gosh you could swallow your heart." It's like, "Oh, what's happened? I feel like the end of the world, like we say, the skinny spots, right? We push past those and-
Sarah Williamson:
Well, there isn't any sense in sitting there and dwelling on it and being angry. You just got to start working towards solving the problem.
Courtney Gray :
Towards a solution. Yeah, absolutely. It's a great approach in life and in making anything, I think, any craft. So your partner, your boyfriend is a ceramicist, is that right?
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. Very cool. So y'all are both creating during the day? Tell us about a typical day for you guys? Are you in the studio most of the time or-
Sarah Williamson:
Right now, he's just moved to the area. So he has a studio, but it's not set up very comfortably. So we're going to get into that routine a little bit more. But yeah. For him, typically, he is working usually kind of 9:00 to 5:00-ish in his studio and being creative, and he does a really cool style, like Japanese ceramics as like wood fired style ceramics, and it's really wonderful work and just wonderful to be with someone who understands the creative process, isn't himself kind of doing something similar. I also just absolutely love ceramics and its work is really wonderful as well.
Courtney Gray :
It's nice to have a partner that understands your process, and therefore probably supports the time that it takes to create something and the devotion to your own company and all of those things.
Sarah Williamson:
Yeah, for sure. I mean, for me, any amount of time that I give my work, it's a requisite and so on.
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. Absolutely.
Sarah Williamson:
[crosstalk 00:51:38] because especially as a woman, it's intimidating for a lot of men when a woman who was very successful at their craft.
Courtney Gray :
Can you face a lot of challenges being a female jeweler in the industry? I feel like you and I... Well, I'm 40, I don't know how old you are, Sarah, but when I came in, it felt like it had already started to kind of shift. We don't have to get too deep into that. But I've never honestly seen resistance to me being in the industry as a female, and it's kind of a hard question to answer when I get asked that question. What's it like to be a female [crosstalk 00:52:13]-
Sarah Williamson:
It's typical. You don't know anything else, right? [crosstalk 00:52:17].
Courtney Gray :
Yeah. Exactly.
Sarah Williamson:
I think in a lot of ways, you're with doctors. A lot of people feel more comfortable with a male doctor, even though female doctors are on average spending more time with their patients. This is another thing. There's definitely a lot of different ways in which I've felt held back dealing with clients. Sometimes I feel like, especially in person, there have been situations where I know I have to avoid being one-on-one with a man in private. There's different situations where I know that's going to go. Not saying anything inappropriate would happen. Just saying, being in a private one-on-one situation, that would make me feel uncomfortable. Then there's been other opportunities and situations I know that if I was a man I may have gotten or different things like that.
Sarah Williamson:
But it really isn't going to serve me in any way to kind of dwell on it. I'm just kind of keep doing my thing. With the art jewelry, I felt like men want to buy from men. A lot of my clients are male. I find that the men want to buy from men because it's like they want to buy the brand if they're buying like a flashy piece of jewelry. But they trust me to make engagement rings because it's a female thing. It's kind of my thought. But [crosstalk 00:53:39]-
Courtney Gray :
Oh, yeah. That's interesting. I mean-
Sarah Williamson:
... it definitely has affected me, and I'm sure it has helped me back to some extent. But it really is hard to say without having the experience of.
Courtney Gray :
Well, you just keep moving forward, no matter what. I think that's the best that we can all do. This has been awesome to sit with you, Sarah and get to know you better. I know we got to spend a little time back in Austin when you were here years ago.
Sarah Williamson:
A lot of fun.
Courtney Gray :
Oh, man. It was so fun. Graham came down with you, right? Graham Bandt-Law. Who's another amazing, fascinating jeweler. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with the community before we sign off today. Again, thank you so much for taking time away from your bench and the cutting rocks and sharing with us today. It's been really insightful to hear where you're coming from.