S5-15: Bonny Doon & Hand Forming with JJ Otero

Join co-hosts Mark Nelson and Fiona Morrison as they dive into the art of moving metal—comparing the efficiency of a Bonny Doon hydraulic press with the finesse of hand hammering. 

Then JJ Otero joins the conversation to share his story on trading a 20-year healthcare IT career to pursue his passion for jewelry. The episode wraps up with Mark and Fiona answering two listener questions submitted on YouTube, offering their expert advice on popular jewelry-making topics.

Transcript

00;00;00;04 - 00;00;15;10
Mark
Hello and welcome to For the Love of Jewelry podcast. I'm your host, Mark Nelson, and this is my co-host, Fiona Morrison, who kindly agreed after much persuasion, to leave her desk and come and join us for this show today. Thank you Fiona.

00;00;15;13 - 00;00;25;09
Fiona
Happy to be here. You know, they're keeping things busy and things are starting to ramp up for getting the busy season opener. So everyone's been.

00;00;25;11 - 00;00;26;15
Mark
You're always busy though.

00;00;26;17 - 00;00;31;03
Fiona
I am always busy, though. A lot of that. Self-inflicted. I like to keep busy.

00;00;31;05 - 00;00;47;18
Mark
I am super excited because we did an interview with JJ Otero and he is such an amazing artist. Multi multi media artist. He does woodworking, painting, sculpture, jewelry and it's a really great interview.

00;00;47;21 - 00;01;11;11
Fiona
It is. He's such an amazing storyteller. In fact, there's one thing he said that was so wonderful where he mentioned that he first started out with stamping, and I was thinking, oh, that's so interesting, since he does have such a background and such a preference towards storytelling that it's something that's historically been used.

00;01;11;13 - 00;01;12;14
Mark
And he's a musician as well.

00;01;12;15 - 00;01;13;27
Fiona
Exactly. That's what I'm thinking.

00;01;13;28 - 00;01;15;13
Mark
I'm really excited for what's coming.

00;01;15;13 - 00;01;16;14
Fiona
So excited.

00;01;16;20 - 00;01;34;02
Mark
I remember the first time I met him. We are having a book signing. I, Matthew Shim, and he did a, the Art of stamping book, and he had a lot of the local artists, Jacob Morgan, JJ was there, and I got to meet him there, and I instantly got on his Instagram and started following him, and that's really hooked me.

00;01;34;04 - 00;01;43;23
Mark
I was seeing his work, and then, he's a really big fan of food and so am I. So I was like, where did you get that, JJ? So it'll be a good time.

00;01;43;25 - 00;01;54;17
Fiona
I hope you enjoyed this podcast today. If you find any of this information helpful, you can give us a follow on our YouTube or find our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're getting your podcast.

00;01;54;20 - 00;02;09;07
Mark
So I'm really excited. We got JJ going to be on the show, and, I love his work. And one of the things he uses, he uses a lot of technology in his job. Have you seen pictures on his Instagram and stuff? Yeah. And, he uses, Bonnie Dean press and to get a lot of those forms.

00;02;09;10 - 00;02;22;07
Mark
And, I think it would be great to kind of discuss the differences between using a press, hydraulic farming, and maybe doing the same job by hammer. Have you ever done that? Have you ever done hand raising or anything like that?

00;02;22;10 - 00;02;39;01
Fiona
Yeah. In fact, it's funny, I have a lot of background experience with representing chasing the less so with the Bonnie Doon and more of like personal work, which I know you obviously have a lot more experience with that, and you've taught people how to use them for a really long time. So I would love to.

00;02;39;03 - 00;02;41;29
Mark
Well, are we going to swap stories because I've never done chasing or represent.

00;02;42;01 - 00;02;42;19
Fiona
Really.

00;02;42;20 - 00;02;51;10
Mark
Never. I don't believe that. No. It's true. I mean, I used to set up the classes and had everything all the tools laid out for the instructors and the students, but I've never done it.

00;02;51;13 - 00;02;52;00
Fiona
Really?

00;02;52;01 - 00;02;52;19
Mark
Yeah.

00;02;52;21 - 00;03;15;15
Fiona
Oh, well, it's, interesting thing I got into it in a bit of an odd way. I'd say it was a little bit of initial training of, like, here are what the tools are. But a lot of it was just sort of messing around on my own from there. Yeah, I personally got into it with Nicole, which is a bit of an even funnier, odd material.

00;03;15;16 - 00;03;48;26
Fiona
Yeah, it's I feel like the benefits of that are just like speed running through every single problem you're going to run into. It's going to crack. If it's going to tarnish in weird ways, have to put more pressure on certain side, figuring out like how you really have to focus in order to shape that material, because the different from what I've seen for the most part, is that when you're hand farming those materials, it's very much you're working with the metal, not you're working the metal, so to.

00;03;48;26 - 00;04;08;19
Mark
Speak. Okay. Well, that's a good point, because it kind of be applies to using a hydraulic press versus forging or or raising by hand, you know, and so I spent a lot of time with the guys from Bonnie Doon and Lee Marshall, the, the inventor of it. I studied Susan Kingsley's book, which is like the Bible for hydraulic farming.

00;04;08;21 - 00;04;17;25
Mark
And, really learned a lot of cool stuff. One of the things I heard the more than often or not, is that the hydraulic press is really just a big, giant hammer.

00;04;18;02 - 00;04;18;16
Fiona
Yeah.

00;04;18;19 - 00;04;22;17
Mark
You know, and the whole purpose behind it is to save your body.

00;04;22;23 - 00;04;23;04
Fiona
Yeah.

00;04;23;04 - 00;04;45;03
Mark
You know, your arms, your joints. They only have so many throws in them. Yeah. You know, and when you're doing what I used to do is I would make these silhouette days and just push a bunch of urethane and metal through the hole. And I would do probably 60 to 70% of my forming with the press and then come in by hand.

00;04;45;06 - 00;05;01;07
Mark
Yeah. And do all the detail work. So I saved myself a ton of time doing that. And, that's one of the biggest reasons for having that kind of tool is save the body, you know? And there's a lot of other tools out there like that.

00;05;01;09 - 00;05;15;15
Fiona
Yeah. And it's so funny that you say that because that really is I feel like that cut off point when you're realizing, oh, I need to stop now. Yeah. Because I can feel it in a place I'm not supposed to be feeling it.

00;05;15;16 - 00;05;24;26
Mark
Oh, yeah, I threw I blew out my wrist. Yeah. First, like. And it was useless for six months because that was hand raising 18 gauge bronze.

00;05;24;28 - 00;05;27;15
Fiona
Ooh. You know, bronze is hard to made.

00;05;27;15 - 00;05;28;15
Mark
The most beautiful bell.

00;05;28;22 - 00;05;30;19
Fiona
I'm sure it was gorgeous.

00;05;30;21 - 00;05;56;21
Mark
Sounds beautiful too. Oh, yeah. But, So, yeah, it's all about saving the body, and, Oh, I had a point. I totally forgot what it was gonna be, but, there's a lot of technology out there like that. Saving the body. So we were just talking to JJ, and I remember part of the conversation where he's talking about he got feedback for you know, using the press wasn't a traditional method of stamping and getting those forms right.

00;05;56;23 - 00;06;11;24
Mark
And how it was just really the machine doing the work. And that is kind of true, you know. But the weird thing is when you're using that press with a manual pump. I don't know if I'm just tripping out, but I can feel that metal move.

00;06;11;27 - 00;06;51;17
Fiona
Oh absolutely. And what's interesting about that too is that this isn't a new concept in the jewelry industry. Like as a whole. It's just a newer technology for the personal jeweler for many years in more of in industrial jewelry manufacturing, early 1900s, they were using larger scale dyes. Oh, yeah. And even something like that. So this isn't it's interesting to see this because a lot of things nowadays that we're seeing that are thought of as more like antique pieces from the turn of the century were made in a similar method.

00;06;51;22 - 00;06;52;08
Fiona


00;06;52;11 - 00;06;55;02
Mark
They were they were coined in two part dyes.

00;06;55;03 - 00;07;00;08
Fiona
Exactly. And coining is something that's been around since medieval times. Exactly.

00;07;00;14 - 00;07;01;13
Mark
Even longer than that.

00;07;01;20 - 00;07;28;20
Fiona
Yeah, exactly. So it's more of like a a lever essentially that you're using in order to assist with thicker gauges, things that are more unwieldy, stretching that metal farther, because there really is some limitation you're running into if you're doing that by hand. Oh, yeah. You can only you can only push metal so far with a hand tool before it starts cracking.

00;07;28;20 - 00;07;40;24
Fiona
It starts thinning. You're getting uneven. Yeah, the metal's moving in a very rhythmic way when you're hammering it, because it's one small hit at a time.

00;07;40;24 - 00;07;57;00
Mark
It's like. It's like the cues are different. Yeah. You know, so when you're hitting metal with a hammer on an anvil or whatever, you feel the metal, you hear the metal. Yeah. And, when you're using a press and you're pumping it up and it starts to slow down your senses are you're using different cues?

00;07;57;02 - 00;07;57;14
Fiona
Exactly.

00;07;57;14 - 00;08;04;12
Mark
You can't hear the metal. No, but you can definitely feel it. And if you can, if you're using a power press, you hear the motor change.

00;08;04;19 - 00;08;29;04
Fiona
Yeah. You're in a way. You're actually feeling a little bit more of that pressure build up with the Bonnie Doon than with a hammer, because it's all dispersing when you're using a hammer after each strike. But the Bonnie doing it builds up consecutively, so you actually have more of a warning sign of this is as far as you want to push it.

00;08;29;05 - 00;08;31;07
Fiona
It depends. Well, yeah.

00;08;31;10 - 00;08;44;10
Mark
At least it depends on what you're doing. Okay. Yeah. I mean I've had so many silhouette days blow out and, you know, I even had I have seen cleaning days break and. Oh, really? I mean that there is no warning in that.

00;08;44;10 - 00;08;45;01
Fiona
Okay.

00;08;45;03 - 00;09;02;29
Mark
It's pretty abrupt. So but now it's just a different tool, man. Yeah. And that's how I think about it. I love it. I love to, you know, push it out, out by with the machine and then go in by hand and do some air chasing or something like that. To take it, to make it different.

00;09;03;05 - 00;09;50;09
Fiona
One interesting thing also with it is that when you're hammering by hand, you're really running into gear, either right handed or your left handed, and there is going to be some you can counterbalance it to a degree, but there's going to be some amount of wiggle going on there with the final piece you're making that if you're making something that might be a part that is assembled to pieces, something that a bit more functional of a join, that's something that you're going to be able to get to a higher precision with something like a Bonnie tune, the necessarily doing it by hand without going in and making continuous adjustments because you're working with machined metal

00;09;50;09 - 00;10;26;17
Fiona
to form that or a machined set up that you're not necessarily doing when you're working it by hand, because you're working it by hand. So for those intricate moving parts, for pieces that have that assembly to it, you can obviously you're getting that doing it by hand, but sometimes there's an extra amount of time going into getting it to that point that I don't think you would run into quite as often with the Bonnie tune, because it has that machined accuracy as a starter that you're working around, that you're working with.

00;10;26;17 - 00;10;28;27
Mark
I think a big, big part of that is, repeatability.

00;10;28;27 - 00;10;30;06
Fiona
Yes, exactly.

00;10;30;07 - 00;10;52;17
Mark
You know, even the truest master is going to have some variance. Yeah. And with the press, you're going to get once you get everything dialed in, you're going to have 100% repeatability, you know, and for hundreds if not thousands of runs. You know and there again it depends on your technique and what you're trying to do. But that's where big big difference is is repeatability.

00;10;52;21 - 00;10;54;19
Fiona
Yeah. And accuracy.

00;10;54;27 - 00;10;55;23
Mark
Accuracy and time.

00;10;55;23 - 00;11;36;28
Fiona
Saving. Yeah. And it's funny you mentioned that because I know this is horrible, but I actually choke hammers when I do chasing because I feel like I have there's a little bit more fine tuned control with sort of stopping the strike where you want it to. Then when you're using a hammer, how you traditionally use it without choking it, where you sometimes you do have a little bit of kickback, you do have a little bit of, oh, if it's going a little bit farther than you want it to, pulling back or just keeping it to a certain degree, that's something that there's a little more tweaking you have to do when you're doing something by

00;11;36;28 - 00;11;47;26
Fiona
hand in order to get something to just that exact amount that it's in your mind. But translating that sometimes it's a very fine balance.

00;11;47;29 - 00;11;50;12
Mark
Right, right. What do you mean by choking when you put your.

00;11;50;12 - 00;11;53;01
Fiona
Like, right up by the the head? Yeah.

00;11;53;04 - 00;11;55;00
Mark
Oh okay. Yeah. There's like choke in the hammer.

00;11;55;01 - 00;12;06;28
Fiona
No. Yeah I tend to put it, grab it right near the hammer and actually rest the handle. Going against my arm so that it's just kind of a half hammering, I guess.

00;12;06;28 - 00;12;09;05
Mark
Anyway. I've done time. That's all you need sometimes.

00;12;09;05 - 00;12;14;07
Fiona
Yeah. You know, definitely not. Create it ergonomically, but it works.

00;12;14;10 - 00;12;26;05
Mark
So there's just so many techniques you can do with the process. Yeah. Adapt them to different situations. So. And everybody's coming up with some really insane tooling. Yeah I love the new shot plates.

00;12;26;08 - 00;12;28;29
Fiona
Yeah, I've seen some really cool things on with those.

00;12;29;02 - 00;12;31;22
Mark
Yeah. It's so quick too. Yeah.

00;12;31;25 - 00;12;53;24
Fiona
Definitely. And especially because historically things with thicker gauges as well, you might have three people helping work on one thing in order to form it. Because it's so thick, you need so much force behind it, or you're using some other kind of tool to assist with that. Now, with something like with JJ's work, working with those thicker gauges that can be done by an individual.

00;12;53;24 - 00;13;01;11
Fiona
Now with minimal effort, going or not effort, but like minimal strain going.

00;13;01;11 - 00;13;08;16
Mark
Into strain, that's a great way to strain on the body because I've tried to move to two millimeter, two millimeter metal. Yeah. It ain't easy.

00;13;08;19 - 00;13;12;06
Fiona
No, you're doing it, but it's not. Yeah.

00;13;12;09 - 00;13;14;19
Mark
So it's pretty brutal sometimes.

00;13;14;22 - 00;13;27;09
Fiona
That it is. Sometimes that's where the fun of it is. You just you really want to and you're doing it because it's satisfying to do so. But it's not necessarily something you want to do with every day production.

00;13;27;11 - 00;13;29;17
Mark
Yeah, it's a lot.

00;13;29;19 - 00;13;54;04
Fiona
Today's episode is brought to you by Bonny Doon Tools. Whether you're shaping, texturing, bending, cutting or embossing metal, do it quickly and precisely with our innovative tools designed by jewelers for jewelers in Calcium Mexico. Bonny Doon Tools provides the safest and most versatile metal forming solutions available for the entire month of November. Use code Bonny ten at checkout to get 10% off all Bonny Doon tools.

00;13;54;05 - 00;13;57;01
Fiona
With that said, let's get back to the episode.

00;13;57;04 - 00;14;00;12
Mark
Hi JJ. Welcome to the show. It's great to have you here, Matt.

00;14;00;17 - 00;14;05;06
JJ
I'm so excited, for the opportunity to, hang out with you guys today.

00;14;05;13 - 00;14;22;16
Mark
We really appreciate it. Did you start off with, I want you to tell us a little bit about yourself. How you got started being a metal smith? What kind of other? Are there other art forms that you're interested in doing? Yeah. Just get to know you a little bit better.

00;14;22;18 - 00;14;57;14
JJ
It's, Certainly. So for 20 some odd years, I was working in the health care i.t. Industry, lots of different, different companies that I've worked for over the years in it in general. And so throughout all of that, I've always been, interested in art and, having an interest and then also doing art.

00;14;57;17 - 00;15;24;25
JJ
These were two different things. And I felt like, we were always told in high school that we need to be contributing members of society. So what does that generally mean? It means getting a four year degree and then going into some kind of job and paying your taxes and all that. So 20 plus years of doing it.

00;15;24;28 - 00;15;54;09
JJ
And, but the undercurrent has always been, being drawn back to the interest I had in art. And for that reason, I collected a lot of art when I started, a lot of, Native American art, when I started making more money as an IT professional. But I always wanted to, sling some paint right away on a canvas.

00;15;54;09 - 00;16;16;04
JJ
And so that that was what I thought art was. So I define art as being a painter, right? When in fact, I was already an artist. As a musician, it's funny. Just recently, well, about two years ago, I needed to put together, a CV for, an exhibition that was going to be a part of.

00;16;16;05 - 00;16;26;05
JJ
Right. And so I just put down all the metal Smith stuff, and it's a very short list, because I've only been doing this six years, just this past October.

00;16;26;05 - 00;16;33;04
Mark
Six years? Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, I thought you've been doing this, like, your whole life. Yeah. Your work is amazing.

00;16;33;06 - 00;16;52;00
JJ
Well. Thank you. So recognizing, So I shared it with a friend, and then they told me, well, what about your your music and your painting and those. And so once I added those, what was, like, half a page turned into, you know, three, three pages or so.

00;16;52;05 - 00;16;53;20
Mark
What kind of music do you play?

00;16;53;23 - 00;17;33;29
JJ
I play guitar and sing for, a band and we originally started out with one band called Saving Damsels. That was really born out of, a lot of counseling and therapy for for addictions that I had. Right. In terms of, Well, I was addicted to alcohol. Alcohol at the time. So, having gotten past, a lot of that introspection, I got to the point where I was able to, look at the greater causes for these kinds of social, social issues for indigenous folks.

00;17;34;00 - 00;18;09;04
JJ
Yeah. And so my, my music really became a lot more political. So I changed the name to, Senator Welty. So the music style is basically blues rock. Cool. Sometimes leaning into a little bit of soul, possibly. And, it's kind of just a mix of music styles, but, being, a music lover from childhood, I, I even had, was given, nickname by my mom and my uncles.

00;18;09;06 - 00;18;19;17
JJ
I guess I listen to radio a lot. And out there back then, it was on the Am radio out there, just these old, old radios that had diesel batteries that. Oh my.

00;18;19;17 - 00;18;20;01
Mark
Gosh.

00;18;20;02 - 00;18;28;01
JJ
Yeah. Yeah. And so that was the only way we could get, any kind of entertainment or any kind of radio.

00;18;28;04 - 00;18;29;22
Mark
So what was your nickname?

00;18;29;25 - 00;18;44;00
JJ
So the nickname they gave me was, JJ radio station. Okay. Because I was, I guess apparently I listen to radio a lot, and then I also sang a lot as a child, just kind of mimicking what I was hearing on, on the radio.

00;18;44;03 - 00;18;46;15
Mark
So what got you into metal smithing?

00;18;46;17 - 00;18;56;05
JJ
Yeah. That's, So post, it. Career. Yeah. Found myself back living back home on the reservation. With my parents.

00;18;56;08 - 00;18;57;26
Mark
And was that, like the Navajo reservation?

00;18;57;27 - 00;19;30;09
JJ
Yeah. Never reservation. And, I lived that live out there. And, currently. And upon coming back, I just kind of realize that my parents are aging. They're getting older, and and there's some things that they needed help with that, that, that I could potentially, help, help them out with. And so I stuck around thinking, well, I'm going to stay here for, you know, a little bit of time and, fix some things around the house.

00;19;30;09 - 00;19;52;19
JJ
And until I can, I can land and makes it job right. And the next, it, never came about for a bunch of different reasons, but I think it's mostly because I was in a in a place where there are no art it jobs, right, to say. Yeah. And so I ended up having to figure out a way to make a living.

00;19;52;19 - 00;20;29;16
JJ
So I made things with my hands. In high school I did woodworking, so I did I made, but two by fours from, you know, one of the big box stores and cobbled them together to make, furniture, benches and tables and, and being in the band and being able to, you know, put the, put the word out there of what we do as a band really helped with launching my, my cobbled together furniture.

00;20;29;19 - 00;20;55;10
JJ
So I would push it out on, you know, Facebook, Instagram and any, any place where I could talk about it and started getting orders. So that really slowed down. And, I ended up, just kind of musing. I do a lot of musing on, on social media. I, I call it my online diary, okay. My online public diary.

00;20;55;13 - 00;21;26;24
JJ
And so there I was just kind of musing or actually, I was just kind of in a weird spot with what I was doing currently, which is woodworking, and then had just recently getting started getting into the, native, art markets. Okay. And so right into that weird spot, I was just talking about how things were slow, how not sure what to do.

00;21;26;26 - 00;21;50;26
JJ
At that moment, one of my mentors who actually initially got me into into the art markets assisted me with that's a whole different story. But, he, he just commented and said, well, why don't you try silversmithing? And I just said to myself, well, why don't I? So I bugged him and said, what do I need to get started?

00;21;50;26 - 00;22;08;06
JJ
Right. And so he kind of led me on the trajectory of doing stamp work right. And so I began, he told me to go and get 12 pieces of copper to start out with.

00;22;08;07 - 00;22;09;08
Mark
Right.

00;22;09;10 - 00;22;31;01
JJ
And he told me to get 18 gauge copper and go buy 12 pieces and then stamp these Harrigan and bring them to me, and I'll look at them. So that was really just kind of a little bit of a kick. Yeah. And then, so I began about 24 pieces because I. Honestly, for me, it needed to work because I needed an income of something.

00;22;31;01 - 00;22;32;02
Mark
Yeah.

00;22;32;05 - 00;22;41;14
JJ
So I did the 24 to 30 first piece. I again social media push it on there just this is my process of my first really terrible stamping.

00;22;41;14 - 00;22;56;12
Mark
That's the part I love about social media. It's seeing the progression. Yeah. You know, but a lot of metal smiths on Instagram, that's my go to. And just to watch the progression of work is just. Yeah okay. Now they're getting it you know. And it's so fun to watch.

00;22;56;15 - 00;22;57;06
JJ
Yeah.

00;22;57;08 - 00;22;58;05
Mark
Excellent.

00;22;58;08 - 00;23;11;25
JJ
That was that was the beginning of metal smithing in what really just kind of, occurred to me there's two moments. One is that that very first piece, there's a lady here in Albuquerque. She said, I want that your very first piece.

00;23;11;27 - 00;23;12;26
Mark
Okay.

00;23;12;29 - 00;23;50;20
JJ
And I didn't know how to price it. I didn't know I didn't know anything about the the business side of of being a jeweler. Right. So I asked my, my, my buddy who and his name is Kenneth Johnson. He's he's, well known, metal Smith that lives up in Santa Fe. So he, was the one that was instrumental in kind of, setting a wide berth of possibilities and then occasionally throwing in advice, for both business and then technique.

00;23;50;22 - 00;24;16;16
JJ
And so, I just asked him, well, how do I price this? And so we got and then he threw it back to me in the form of a question allowance. Well, how much did your, your copper cost. Right. And so that, that became the, the, the beginning, the education, the business education that I needed in order to make it as a metal smith.

00;24;16;16 - 00;24;18;12
JJ
And so that's,

00;24;18;14 - 00;24;21;22
Mark
And your work is predominantly stamping, right?

00;24;21;24 - 00;24;30;13
JJ
A good bit of it. Yeah, I do, I do delve into other, other techniques, but yes, primarily, stamping.

00;24;30;13 - 00;24;35;20
Mark
Yeah. Are you mostly self-taught or.

00;24;35;22 - 00;24;55;27
JJ
That's a real, that's real the razor's edge. I mean, yeah, I feel like I've put in 12 to 16 hours a day when I first started out. And so, while I was told, get some stamps, get this, and we'll get a hammer.

00;24;55;27 - 00;24;56;19
Mark
Yeah.

00;24;56;21 - 00;25;03;16
JJ
That was the only advice I really got. I didn't get to sit down with somebody and say, now do this, try this and this and this.

00;25;03;16 - 00;25;04;22
Mark
So you got guidance.

00;25;04;27 - 00;25;08;23
JJ
I got guidance I didn't get I didn't get teaching and techniques.

00;25;08;23 - 00;25;09;15
Mark
Right, right.

00;25;09;17 - 00;25;17;14
JJ
So, and so my, my, my, stamping teacher was my, my and with my hammer.

00;25;17;17 - 00;25;18;16
Mark
Right in time.

00;25;18;19 - 00;25;19;04
JJ
Yeah, that's.

00;25;19;07 - 00;25;23;01
Mark
Exactly. Yeah. That's what they say. Was it 10,000 hours? Yeah. You know.

00;25;23;08 - 00;25;23;24
JJ
Yeah.

00;25;23;24 - 00;25;26;27
Mark
So it's one of the best expressions ever. Oh.

00;25;26;28 - 00;25;54;24
Fiona
So sorry. Yeah. No, I wonder with that. Your work has a beautiful weight to it, a beautiful heft to it. Visual weight too. Exactly. You use a lot of larger angles. And does your history with woodworking play into that at all as well? With some of those techniques that you're bringing and that work of the material, working with your hands, bringing that in, does that have any play with that as well?

00;25;54;27 - 00;25;57;22
JJ
She's uncovered my secret.

00;25;57;24 - 00;25;59;29
Mark
She's like that.

00;26;00;03 - 00;26;44;00
JJ
Yeah. So, woodworking does have a lot to bear on. My work. Understanding that, how woodworking works, I take some of those same concepts in terms of design and and move them into silver. Yeah. So, it is, the the other thing is also just it's kind of an homage to back when, folks had, you know, melt, coins silver down, you know, do ingot, jewelry, but with less stress on my shoulders and my, you know, wrists and elbows.

00;26;44;00 - 00;27;16;03
JJ
Yeah. Well, I, I really I, I shout out to the, to the, to the folks, men and women who, do ingot jewelry. I, I have I had a late start to making jewelry. Right. And I was conscious of, how that might affect my body. And so, that's why I always work towards leveraging, science is not the right word, but using.

00;27;16;04 - 00;27;16;23
Mark
Technology.

00;27;16;24 - 00;27;22;15
JJ
You know, technology and techniques that technology and techniques that would get me there quicker and easier, and.

00;27;22;15 - 00;27;23;00
Mark
Tooling.

00;27;23;00 - 00;27;25;02
JJ
And tooling right. And so, yeah, exactly.

00;27;25;02 - 00;27;45;02
Mark
It's a nice segue right here. Absolutely. Because we're doing a really special thing this month is for Bonnie Doon. Yeah. Where, you know, you mentioned there's a, code you put in Bonnie ten B. Oh, and NY ten, and you'll get 10% off the Bonnie Doon items in November. So, let's let's talk about Bonnie Doon presses.

00;27;45;04 - 00;27;45;15
JJ
Yeah.

00;27;45;16 - 00;28;08;09
Mark
We got stories. So. Yeah. And it's really great that you mentioned that, your, your willingness to, to try new tooling to reduce the effects on your body. Right. And that's one of the number one things that the press is all about. What was your first press? How'd you get into it? And how does it changed your work?

00;28;08;11 - 00;28;35;11
JJ
You know, like I said, the first 8 to 10 months, I specifically focused on, doing, stamping. Yeah, but I also knew that at some point I really wanted to work in heavier gauges. Yeah. So, again, in homage to, how jewelry was done way back when without the heavy handwork or does forging code forging work?

00;28;35;14 - 00;28;56;16
JJ
So I first saw my first Bonnie Doon at in Kenneth Johnson's studio. And so there I was really kind of, I saw the machine, and I'm just like, that is such a cool machine. Was that for. And, it looks very industrial. It's not. It's not something out you would think you would see in a jewelry studio, right?

00;28;56;16 - 00;29;17;28
JJ
Yeah. So I looked at and then he showed me how to using. And it is terrifying to me because I had an, the electric pump. Oh, that's everything is a little automatic. And he, he kept, you know, warning me. Watch your hands, watch your hands. And so that's where I first saw the the, the Bonnie Dean.

00;29;18;00 - 00;29;25;25
JJ
But this was years ago, back in probably at least 15, ten, 15 years ago.

00;29;25;25 - 00;29;27;18
Mark
When they were gold.

00;29;27;21 - 00;29;30;18
JJ
The gold. He actually had a silver one. So I don't know when those came out.

00;29;30;18 - 00;29;33;23
Mark
So but when I started here about 2008.

00;29;33;26 - 00;30;03;14
JJ
So yeah, he had one of those. And so I'm that's, that was my first time seeing one. And so fast forward to when I got started. Six years ago, it was is constantly on my mind that I need to get one of these. Yeah, I knew that you guys had them here, but as starting out, I don't have the money to invest in the machine, let alone all the tooling.

00;30;03;14 - 00;30;30;16
JJ
That's that's, kind of necessary. Yeah, to work with it. And so I set about trying to find a used one. Could never find anything in the local area. Right. So a friend of mine and I were when we were going out to, Florida for an art show that he was doing, and I was I was his, I was his, muscle as he's a sculptor.

00;30;30;18 - 00;30;53;25
JJ
So on the way back, all the way long, I'm searching, because I did have some jewelry with me, that I was selling all the way along. I'm spending as I'm buying and selling things. Right. Like I bought my first, shear. And it wasn't really. It was a chopper, basically. Yeah. It only had, like, a 4 or 5 inch path.

00;30;53;27 - 00;30;54;06
Mark
Right.

00;30;54;07 - 00;31;14;19
JJ
Or or throat, rather. And so and then I got an old buffer, out there in sort of all places. So anyway, we were in Dallas and we were getting ready to go to dinner with friends, and, so I'm sitting there in the passenger side just going through on social media seeing, and then a of doom popped up the gold one.

00;31;14;19 - 00;31;37;00
JJ
Yeah, yeah. The OG. Yeah. And I got so excited and I told my friend, we were following a car and we were in his van, and I just told him, dude, can you can you call your friends, and tell them that you want to jump in with them and you guys go have dinner? I need to go get this right?

00;31;37;02 - 00;31;46;13
JJ
And I really upset him. I was like, we're right in the middle of of of of, afternoon or. Yeah, the 5:00 traffic.

00;31;46;13 - 00;31;47;12
Mark
Oh my gosh.

00;31;47;15 - 00;32;22;14
JJ
And he was not happy. Right. And so but he, he said, okay. So anyway, I got, I went and found the body. Dude. And it was an old, goldsmith. Okay. He said, him and his partner bought it years ago and really never used it. In their work. And that, they just had it sitting around for years.

00;32;22;16 - 00;32;46;22
JJ
And he says, my partner is retiring. And for that reason, I'm kind of selling off the things that I'm not going to need in my reduced small studio and home studio. And, and so I'm I'll take it off your hands. I, I barely have enough to cover the cost. Yeah. So the cost, he he wanted 764.

00;32;46;23 - 00;32;48;10
Mark
Yeah. Was it the old manual one?

00;32;48;12 - 00;32;50;12
JJ
No, a there's an electric one.

00;32;50;12 - 00;32;52;03
Mark
Oh my gosh.

00;32;52;05 - 00;33;13;26
JJ
So knowing how much they were new and then what do you wanted with an electric motor. I gave him every, all my cash that I possibly could. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, so we started talking. I just told him my journey. So I'm, I'm just starting out and,

00;33;13;28 - 00;33;34;29
JJ
So, we, we were loading up the, the, the gold, the gold beast and the motor, and then then he goes to me. Oh, wait. There's more. And I was just like, what he says. Yeah. So he went in and got this old milk crate and had all the, the dyes in it.

00;33;34;29 - 00;33;36;04
Mark
Oh, my gosh.

00;33;36;06 - 00;33;39;01
JJ
The dyes, the forming, bins.

00;33;39;06 - 00;33;42;19
Mark
Yeah. The boxes, the boxes. Yeah, yeah. Urethane.

00;33;42;21 - 00;34;11;21
JJ
Urethane. I mean, there's like square boxes and around boxes and then some bracelet formers, I believe. And mushroom for mushroom. Yeah. Tool holders. Yeah. And I just like, I couldn't believe it. And then he says, well, I hope this helps you. So and I just, I was saying something about. Yeah. So I'm glad I have enough money for it because I was out on this trip.

00;34;11;21 - 00;34;22;17
JJ
And so thank you so much. And then he just says, well, let's just make it 700. Even gives you a little bit of money to get back home. Oh, geez. Okay. Yeah, this.

00;34;22;19 - 00;34;24;17
Mark
Is a wonderful story.

00;34;24;19 - 00;34;30;06
JJ
But yeah, he just kind of, kind of patted me on the back and say, good luck.

00;34;30;08 - 00;34;31;15
Mark
That's all.

00;34;31;17 - 00;34;40;03
JJ
So a lot of little things like that have just kind of, I don't the product of intentionality.

00;34;40;09 - 00;34;42;25
Mark
Yeah.

00;34;42;27 - 00;35;07;08
JJ
I have a quote in my, you know, in my shots. Is that the harder you work, the luckier. Yeah, yeah. And I, I really abide by that. And, and when I'm feeling like things aren't going as well as they might be. Yeah. So, and I, and I capture those stories and, and share them because hopefully it's meaningful to somebody.

00;35;07;11 - 00;35;10;13
JJ
Yeah. Somebody else that's, that's starting out.

00;35;10;19 - 00;35;24;21
Mark
Yeah. And I love those things that you're posting on your, on your social and because I, it takes, I take the moment and I read it, you know I'm like okay I knew that. But now to see it posted again reminds me of it. Yeah. You know it's it's huge.

00;35;24;23 - 00;35;42;12
JJ
So yeah, I think it, writing about stuff like that. Also, there's a strange thing that happens in our heads, it says that these things that I'm talking about when we're vocalizing it, actually, when we're thinking it, it has a certain importance.

00;35;42;12 - 00;35;43;22
Mark
Yep.

00;35;43;24 - 00;35;49;19
JJ
But if we if we write it down or we talk about it, then it increases in importance to us.

00;35;49;20 - 00;35;50;00
Mark
Right?

00;35;50;07 - 00;36;15;10
JJ
So sentimentality is very much correlated to, actionable things like talking and, and writing it down, manifesting it. Yeah, exactly. And so, so yeah, that's, that's kind of what I try to, to have in my life and have it guide my life. And as a result, my, my jewelry making.

00;36;15;10 - 00;36;20;16
Mark
Yeah. So, so just oh go ahead. All right. It's your turn.

00;36;20;18 - 00;36;55;01
Fiona
There's so much of that as well, especially in the jewelry industry, is you're communicating so much of that without words with your hands creating a piece. So being able to also communicate that in words and in your case, communicate that in music as well, is such an astounding balance that I feel like a lot of times gets missed with focusing so much on one thing or another nowadays that it's truly wonderful seeing what you're doing and what kind of impact that has on the community.

00;36;55;01 - 00;37;06;06
Fiona
I feel like as a whole is something that is a direction more people are wanting to focus in nowadays. So it's been wonderful seeing you getting out there really doing that.

00;37;06;09 - 00;37;40;01
JJ
Yeah. And in Buddhist, thinking, they talk about, presence and being in the moment and, and while certain activities, like artistic activities, are a better conduit or more conducive rather to, to being in the present moment. I also believe that you bring presence to you bring to presence. Yeah. It's not the activity that that brings the presence.

00;37;40;01 - 00;37;57;13
JJ
While artistic activity do activities do tend to allow you to. To nurture and watered that, a little bit better. Yeah, yeah. So that's why stamp stamp work is or just in general jewelry work is for me.

00;37;57;17 - 00;38;19;16
Mark
It is for me to, sign piercing. Yeah. You can't you have to be present. But no, I mean, yeah, a little bit. You should be aware, you know, but, yeah, I love the process of jewelry making. Filing is one. Yeah. One of the times I'm the most in the zone. Yeah. You know, aware of what's going on and just enjoying it.

00;38;19;18 - 00;38;24;17
Mark
Yeah, exactly. It's a stupid little process, you know, but it's so critical.

00;38;24;22 - 00;38;26;02
JJ
Yeah.

00;38;26;04 - 00;38;27;29
Mark
So you still using the body doing,

00;38;28;02 - 00;38;28;27
JJ
Absolutely.

00;38;28;27 - 00;38;38;29
Mark
Have you gotten, upgraded or change your process? Hydraulic forming processes or.

00;38;39;01 - 00;39;09;24
JJ
Nothing's really changed. I think I've, I've gotten a lot more tools, tooling for it. So currently I have a mach three. Yeah. So I've graduated from, from the, the, the gold press. And it's a little bit out of necessity. Necessity because it's some of the tools. Yeah. The dyes that I use, which are modified dyes, for the press, traditionally they be done with, with a hammer.

00;39;09;25 - 00;39;13;20
Mark
Right.

00;39;13;22 - 00;39;21;08
JJ
Where it got to the point where I needed a, a longer a longer throat. Yeah. On on the.

00;39;21;11 - 00;39;22;09
Mark
You need a taller press.

00;39;22;09 - 00;39;23;18
JJ
A taller press. Yeah, yeah.

00;39;23;21 - 00;39;25;15
Mark
More space in between the plat.

00;39;25;17 - 00;39;53;19
JJ
Exactly. And, that that got me to. Yeah. To the to the next iteration, to the Mach three. And so, in the meantime, what's happening is I'm taking my old press and kind of looking at, you know, a potential program, you know, like a native arts program that has a jewelry component where they might benefit from a, having that tool.

00;39;53;19 - 00;40;12;09
JJ
And I can come and demonstrate. And I believe Bonnie Dean is also committed to to helping me out by, refurbishing the machine. Yeah, with the new with the new, Ram and then, changing out the, the springs.

00;40;12;11 - 00;40;14;02
Mark
So they kind of brought it up to code.

00;40;14;04 - 00;40;21;20
JJ
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So and then they, they offered, the, a package of, of, tooling for.

00;40;21;20 - 00;40;22;08
Mark
Nice.

00;40;22;08 - 00;40;30;17
JJ
So I'm trying, you know, just kind of searching, to see where we can, set that up for a program.

00;40;30;23 - 00;40;35;17
Mark
That's been amazing. Are you looking more for, like, a youth program or just.

00;40;35;20 - 00;40;46;25
JJ
Generally speaking, yes. High school would be would be, ideal, because I feel like, you can throw the seeds on, on their field and it's.

00;40;46;25 - 00;40;47;06
Mark
Oh, my.

00;40;47;06 - 00;40;48;03
JJ
Gosh, Germany.

00;40;48;05 - 00;40;49;06
Mark
Yeah.

00;40;49;09 - 00;41;08;12
JJ
Even even if they don't do it right away, at some point I just like they'll, they'll recall that and say, oh, that's what happened to me. And with woodworking, I did it in high school, but I never did it again until 30 or 40 years later. Yeah. And I remember how good I was at it or how good it made me feel.

00;41;08;12 - 00;41;10;20
JJ
I guess that's a better way to say it.

00;41;10;23 - 00;41;34;19
Mark
So my experience with hydraulic farming is it was kind of odd. At Texas Tech University in Lubbock, they had this great big giant inner pack press, is industrial. I mean, literally is bigger than the couch. Yeah. You know, and, my professor knew dye farming, you know, yeah. Silhouette dye for me. And I made some really great pieces that way I would use the press, actually do 80% of the work.

00;41;34;25 - 00;41;58;28
Mark
Yeah, and do the rest by hand, you know? Yeah. When I got here at Rio, at about the time Phil Poirier took over Bonnie Doon. And so, I was on the tech team, so I worked very closely with him. Drove up to Taos many, many times for for lessons. Yeah. And, really, was the MSM subject matter expert here at Rio and the press.

00;41;58;28 - 00;42;18;14
Mark
I was his right hand here at Rio. And, so he taught me how to make this. I just my funny story. And, he taught me how to make these coining days. Right. And so I made one is about the size of a nickel in diameter. Right. And we have a lab tech here at Rio. And I was trying it out.

00;42;18;14 - 00;42;41;26
Mark
Right. And I took that thing up to up to full gauge on the pressure. Man. And it it it shot through the acrylic spacer, and it went off like a 22. And it was right when the safety guy walked by, and he ducked and he goes, what is going on? Like nothing, man. We're okay. That's where we got, you know.

00;42;41;26 - 00;42;51;01
Mark
So. But that would only have happened if, when he was walking by. Yeah, you know what I mean. So, yeah. Don't shoot your dice through the acrylic spacers.

00;42;51;03 - 00;42;52;25
JJ
Not good. Yeah.

00;42;52;28 - 00;43;04;03
Mark
Scared? Just a little bit. But, just the things that you can do and how your work can grow from it of a new technology, a new technique. Yeah. It's truly amazing.

00;43;04;05 - 00;43;31;04
JJ
So. So Phil has been, Phil for years, has been really instrumental in, in guiding me with, with jewelry, esthetic and design and, and some of the business. Oh, yeah. So, I remember I was up at his shop and we were making some custom dyes that I was, I was, I was making the dye itself. Yeah.

00;43;31;06 - 00;43;33;03
JJ
And then we were pushing it is same story.

00;43;33;03 - 00;43;33;17
Mark
Yeah.

00;43;33;20 - 00;43;55;12
JJ
But we were doing it in a 50 ton press. Yeah. That had, the little glass windows on there and we were pressing it and same thing happened. It's just like it just exploded. Yeah. And he was I mean, we were just, I couldn't I couldn't believe the, the amount of pressure that, that, that, generates.

00;43;55;16 - 00;43;58;13
JJ
Yeah. Maybe it was 100 ton, actually.

00;43;58;15 - 00;44;02;21
Mark
Yeah. If you're working really big and big diameter is you're going to take it up to 100. Yeah.

00;44;02;23 - 00;44;25;17
JJ
So I think it was 100 ton me because I remember it's real stat little guy. And at the there's windows that come down. Yeah. Yeah. So but yeah. Phil Phil and I have been he's become a mentor of sorts. And, I really appreciate, what he's done for me. And I know you guys have had prior relationship with him when he owned, Bonnie Dean.

00;44;25;17 - 00;44;54;23
JJ
Yeah. And then obviously, of course, Peter's a great guy, and I continue to work with him on on custom things. So I tell you, Phil story. So back when I was starting, soon after I got my, my, girl Bonnie Doon, there's a company in Gallup that that, they resell, dies.

00;44;54;25 - 00;44;55;08
Mark
Okay.

00;44;55;08 - 00;45;01;27
JJ
So cancer dies, right? Two part dies. I always forget the the technical name for them.

00;45;01;29 - 00;45;02;18
Mark
I'm saying.

00;45;02;20 - 00;45;05;23
JJ
When it's a two part die. Yeah. It's a conform.

00;45;05;25 - 00;45;06;16
Mark
Conforming.

00;45;06;16 - 00;45;27;24
JJ
Conforming die. Yeah. So, anyway, these are big. The it's it's probably about six and a half, seven inches round thing. So I bought the, the dies. But there's, there's only like, I don't know, there's maybe 4 or 5 sets floating around the United States. And I have one of them.

00;45;27;29 - 00;45;29;12
Mark
Wow.

00;45;29;14 - 00;45;46;12
JJ
And I knew that eventually that, I needed to get it modified for the bunny. Right. So that's where I message Phil and say, hey, I've got these dyes. I'd love to get them fitted for my body, too.

00;45;46;16 - 00;45;47;08
Mark
Yeah.

00;45;47;10 - 00;46;13;24
JJ
He says I can't bring them up, so I, I was went to visit him in Taos and then we got it all figured out and, where I was able to set everything in my old gold press, it does a very first, huge contra dies. Yeah. So ever since then, I anything any tools that I don't make myself, I, I try to get them retrofitted.

00;46;13;26 - 00;46;26;11
JJ
Okay. Yeah. So that they work in the dye and, Yeah. So while I was, I was sharing that on social media. Somebody came in as well. That's not traditional.

00;46;26;14 - 00;46;28;18
Mark
Right.

00;46;28;20 - 00;46;53;00
JJ
And, I just I just fell back on. What, what, Phil told me about appropriate technology. Right? Appropriate technology. Meaning that, you know, however many years ago when Navajo and Hopi or Pueblo people started making jewelry, that some of those technologies did not exist, but they also had certain access to certain technologies.

00;46;53;00 - 00;46;54;01
Mark
Yeah.

00;46;54;04 - 00;47;17;06
JJ
That, that they used, which might have been frowned upon maybe, I don't know. But I was always talk about, leveraging technology in my work because it'll make it easier, more efficient and, a lot of times more consistent.

00;47;17;08 - 00;47;27;23
Mark
Yeah. Well, the first thing I was ever told about the binding press was it's just a big, giant hammer. Yeah. You know, instead of you throwing it at the machine, throws a hammer.

00;47;27;23 - 00;47;28;17
JJ
You know, a hammer.

00;47;28;18 - 00;47;32;17
Mark
Is still a hammer. It's all it does. It squishes stuff.

00;47;32;19 - 00;47;36;06
JJ
And at the end, you still have it in the hand. Finish everything. Yeah, yeah.

00;47;36;08 - 00;47;56;15
Mark
Yeah. So, I mean, I was wondering, you were telling me earlier that, like, Picasso, was one of your, influences and some an artist that you really enjoy. Imagine what he would do with CAD. Oh, no. You know, it's like, okay, it just wasn't available then. Yeah. If he wasn't here now, you know, what would these old time artists do?

00;47;56;16 - 00;48;04;08
Mark
Yeah. Michelangelo. He'd be printing stuff out of the forum labs every day. You know what I mean? Yeah.

00;48;04;11 - 00;48;30;29
Fiona
Yeah. Technologies have always sort of progressed. And things that we now think of as traditional are things that at the time, in a lot of cases, were very revolutionary or were things that were frowned upon when they were being done, that now we all reference as that's the golden way of doing it. So technology continues to progress as the need for it grows, and sometimes the need outpaces the progression of it.

00;48;30;29 - 00;48;36;07
Fiona
So it's always good to have that catch up with us. Yeah.

00;48;36;09 - 00;48;42;28
Mark
You were we were talking earlier and you said you had a really great story about kindergarten.

00;48;43;00 - 00;49;08;21
JJ
Yeah. So, from, from time to time, I get invited to speak to art students or jewelry students. And so I was invited up to the, University of Wisconsin, Whitewater by, Metal Smith. Professor, Theresa Farris.

00;49;08;28 - 00;49;09;21
Mark
Okay.

00;49;09;24 - 00;49;36;18
JJ
So she's up there and, teaches the, the young people there, jewelry arts. So I was traveling to Indianapolis for, a show. And as I was driving, I was traveling to Chicago to see collectors and and she just messaged me and says, hey, since you're in the area. Yeah, you know, come up and talk to my students.

00;49;36;20 - 00;50;09;18
JJ
Yeah, absolutely. So I went up there and that became that began the relationship. And so a year later, they asked me to come back. And so I was teaching how to make, make, stamps, the process of making, you know, sort of filing them in song and then, heat treating, ray tempering all that. And so, they asked me to speak to, or she asked me to speak to, I think, 2 or 3 different classes.

00;50;09;18 - 00;50;15;23
JJ
Yeah. So one of the classes was about, art theory.

00;50;15;25 - 00;50;16;05
Mark
Okay.

00;50;16;10 - 00;50;39;08
JJ
Yeah. So never having never having finished college, I had no idea what art theory meant. Right. So I started studying it and so I, wrote this, had this, like, bullet point thing. To present to the students when I, when I went to this art theory class.

00;50;39;08 - 00;50;41;06
Mark
Yeah.

00;50;41;09 - 00;51;00;20
JJ
So I, I started out and start to lose the students right away. Yeah. And, but I knew in the back of my head that these, these students in here were, they were art school art teachers that are that are in their senior year.

00;51;00;22 - 00;51;01;12
Mark
Okay.

00;51;01;15 - 00;51;26;03
JJ
Yeah. And while I'm losing the audience, I started thinking in my head, I need to change this. What what should I talk about that I remember when I was a child as a as a kindergartner or preschooler. In those times, they always had like art time or drawing time, right? Right. Right after before sleep time. Yeah. Nap time.

00;51;26;06 - 00;51;49;27
JJ
So I was just relating to them and telling them about their their place in the world as school teachers, as art teachers and says, let me tell you my story. My story is that I when I was a child, there are three things I love to draw. One was, Godzilla. Yeah. One was the, the, mittens, from, out in Arizona.

00;51;49;29 - 00;51;55;22
JJ
Yeah. The, the plateaus and then third was, the juniper Tree.

00;51;55;25 - 00;51;56;18
Mark
Oh, yeah.

00;51;56;21 - 00;52;25;06
JJ
So and those are the things I drew over and over again. And I would I would lose myself in the drawing, and then all of a sudden, the teacher would come up and say, hey, Gigi, what are you working on? And I describe the same three things I've done over and over again. But then she said, show me.

00;52;25;09 - 00;52;53;01
JJ
And that always sent a tingle. Or just kind of like a, a smile or or feeling of like, somebody, somebody is interested in what I've done here. Right? So I'd show them and the feeling that I, that I, that I got when I heard the words show me was so, powerful. Right? I didn't realize that at the time because I was in more in tune with things like that.

00;52;53;03 - 00;53;26;10
JJ
The important things in life. So fast forward to talking to the to the art students. I just said, remember that you play that pivotal role of maybe creating the next artist that loves to do whatever you guys are working on, right? That that's that's your role. And while societal things are happening and things are going around in the world, just just remember how important your relationship is to this child.

00;53;26;10 - 00;53;40;16
JJ
That's former the that's just now learning and headed into the same world that we're having to deal with. And we and art is going to help them.

00;53;40;18 - 00;54;08;03
Mark
I got goosebumps, dude, because I can relate. Yeah, I'm really here because in the position I am, because of my high school art teacher. Yeah, his name was, ironically enough, Art Smith. The right guy was insane. He did. We had this show, this window showcase thing, you know, outside the room. So he put together the adventures of bubble, the Bubble Boy, and it was all these little action figures, and they would kill each other, and they would.

00;54;08;06 - 00;54;22;19
Mark
He would splatter red, paint blood all over. It's pretty act, not allowable today. Yeah, but teachers are such, influential role. Did you have family? Do you have a.

00;54;22;21 - 00;54;23;21
Fiona
Yeah.

00;54;23;23 - 00;54;25;02
Mark
Teacher story?

00;54;25;05 - 00;54;47;23
Fiona
Somewhat, I guess more so from my mother, who I was very close with as growing up around her as an artist, sort of picking up like, I'll hear stories sometimes of being a kid, and she's like, oh, yeah, you're sitting right next to me, like copying the hand motions, copying the like from a very young age, just seeing and watching someone performing that art.

00;54;47;24 - 00;54;48;02
JJ
Yeah.

00;54;48;04 - 00;55;12;15
Fiona
As that ultimate teacher seeing and realizing and getting that feel for how things are supposed to be done and then feeling like, oh, you're able to now take that and use it and that empowerment to do that, which is that stellar thing that that encouragement I feel like is ultimately what you're getting at, right?

00;55;12;15 - 00;55;38;05
Mark
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think we're getting kind of tight on that a time. Okay. But there is one more question I want to ask you. For me, it's a little bit of importance. On your Instagram, you're always posting, photos of food. Which really sucks. Yeah. It's like, where is he eating now? So here in Albuquerque or between here and home, where is the best place to eat?

00;55;38;08 - 00;55;39;23
Mark
And what's your favorite kind of food?

00;55;39;26 - 00;55;58;03
JJ
You know, the the way I eat food nowadays is, has changed so much because of the pandemic. Yeah. So I, I don't enjoy going sitting down, eating very much anymore. Do you cook more? I do, I do like cooking. But I did do drive thrus a lot.

00;55;58;06 - 00;55;59;05
Mark
Well, you're always on the road.

00;55;59;06 - 00;56;06;08
JJ
I'm always on the road. Yeah. So one of my favorite spots and one of my favorite foods in Mexican foods is maneuver.

00;56;06;13 - 00;56;08;02
Mark
Maneuver. Okay. Yeah.

00;56;08;04 - 00;56;37;03
JJ
Or breakfast burritos. So there's a little spot, in that convenience store in Bernalillo. Yeah. And they always have really good green chili stew and then burritos. Carnitas out of burritos, is there? That's what I get there in terms of burritos. But, in Manila, they have it there. And, it's just just so good. You wouldn't think in a, in a convenience store, but shoot, New Mexico.

00;56;37;06 - 00;56;40;01
Mark
Of some of the best burritos are all subs.

00;56;40;03 - 00;56;43;02
JJ
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00;56;43;02 - 00;56;44;22
Mark
I lived on those things in grad school.

00;56;44;22 - 00;57;07;24
JJ
Yeah. So, yeah, that's one of my favorite places. But I like, a good steak occasionally. And I usually go to, Juniper Steakhouse. It's inside, Santa Ana. Oh. Okay. Tell and casino. Yeah. So they, in fact, I posted, a ribbon in, Tomahawk, a tomahawk, I saw that, yeah. As, so good.

00;57;07;27 - 00;57;18;29
Mark
Keep posted. Yeah. Thank you so much. JJ, really loved having you here. And, I look forward to to follow you on Instagram and, seeing what else you come up with. Yeah, absolutely.

00;57;18;29 - 00;57;24;13
JJ
Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity.

00;57;24;15 - 00;57;36;08
Unknown


00;57;36;10 - 00;57;38;15
Unknown


00;57;38;17 - 00;58;02;29
Mark
And that was a sample of JJ's song Reservation Boys from his band Saving Damsels. Okay, for our next segment, we got a couple of questions from our YouTube channel. And, listeners, followers. We got two. I'm going to lead with this. First one is from YouTube, Sue, and she says, I'm having a hard time finding out how to set my very small one by two millimeter oval stones.

00;58;03;01 - 00;58;18;11
Mark
It's either too thick and won't curve on the end to make it flush, or it's too thin, and the second heat it heats up. The silver melts before I can get the solder to melt. Argh! Help! So what are your thoughts on this one?

00;58;18;13 - 00;58;45;29
Fiona
Well, there's a lot of variation with that, depending on what type of stone it is and what type of setting she's trying to do. If you're working with something like a faceted stone, which it doesn't necessarily sound like that unless she's doing more of a tube setting, right? With a cab, some of what you could be running into has to do with where if she's making her own bezel cups, where that solder joint is, it might be a little thick.

00;58;46;06 - 00;59;07;14
Fiona
Maybe that's where she's saying, oh, it's getting a little thick there, filing that down a little bit, removing some of that metal first. Yeah. At the joint point before trying to roll it over or and this gets hard with smaller stones like that in terms of making your own bezel cups because they're it's harder to get the consistency.

00;59;07;16 - 00;59;07;25
Fiona
Yeah.

00;59;07;27 - 00;59;13;07
Mark
Unless my fingers are too damn big. Yeah.

00;59;13;10 - 00;59;35;02
Fiona
What's really great we do. I don't believe we have them in this size. We do have some deformed bezel cups that we do sell that I really like with really small stones like that, because they're consistent. You're not really having to heat them up except to attach them to something. There's not multiple pieces and you're basically just going in there and having to set it again.

00;59;35;02 - 01;00;06;01
Fiona
I don't know if we have them in this kind of a size. What I've also seen done is actually taking a piece of tubing and stretching, squishing it exactly, and forming that into at least part of the copper, then just attaching that to the back plate. That's something that I've had some luck with in the past with really small stones, because forming that bezel around, that's not always fun to do, because there's really not much room for error, which you have with larger stones.

01;00;06;02 - 01;00;09;23
Mark
And I'd have to use like tweezers or some kind of non-marking pliers.

01;00;09;23 - 01;00;10;02
Fiona
Yeah.

01;00;10;04 - 01;00;12;20
Mark
To get into this tiny little space.

01;00;12;23 - 01;00;18;15
Fiona
Yeah. So but and I mean, if it's a faceted stone.

01;00;18;17 - 01;00;19;19
Mark
Prong set, that baby.

01;00;19;25 - 01;00;29;12
Fiona
Yeah. Honestly, I mean, if you want to do a tube setting and you're having some trouble, well.

01;00;29;14 - 01;00;52;04
Fiona
I mean, the hammer been on our flex shafts for actually doing the setting around the stone when it gets really thick is wonderful because you're able to go in there and just kind of push that metal down without pushing in a way that at that size you push too much, that stones getting crushed sideways and you're spending twice the amount of time trying to pull it back and fix it as you are set it right.

01;00;52;09 - 01;00;54;26
Fiona
But.

01;00;54;29 - 01;00;55;20
Mark
It's a tough one.

01;00;55;26 - 01;01;07;18
Fiona
Do. Yeah. There's so many different approaches to it in that size. You're working with a little bit. You have to get creative with it because there's you're working around it rather than.

01;01;07;21 - 01;01;14;11
Mark
I've actually in some cases like this, I've actually traced the sit down, traced the stone and cut it out of sheet metal.

01;01;14;13 - 01;01;15;04
Fiona
Oh, so.

01;01;15;04 - 01;01;16;17
Mark
I think like a sheet metal bezel.

01;01;16;17 - 01;01;17;00
Fiona
Yeah.

01;01;17;03 - 01;01;21;05
Mark
So it's not always the right solution, but it has worked in the past.

01;01;21;05 - 01;01;31;06
Fiona
Yeah. Or honestly, you could probably even do some kind of a flush setting with it too, depending on what you're working on. Yeah, that might also be an easier method to get it in there.

01;01;31;08 - 01;01;52;11
Mark
Cool. Got another one, from Lori, which is I think her team. The name is. My question is, can I change the hand pieces from the regular hand piece to the hammer hand piece on my LCS for the motor with the desktop dial control, or does it only work with the foot pedal? Do you know this one?

01;01;52;11 - 01;01;54;13
Mark
Because I do.

01;01;54;15 - 01;01;55;11
Fiona
How about you answer it then?

01;01;55;18 - 01;02;18;19
Mark
I know, yes, you can, just make sure you you turn the motor off and the hammer hand pieces that they change just like a regular flex shaft. No. And with the foot pedal, you kind of slightly depress it and can get it slowly turning so it slips in, with the dial when you might need to do that with the dial just very slightly or just eyeball it.

01;02;18;21 - 01;02;28;07
Mark
You're looking down the shaft, looking for that keyhole and lining up that the key with the hole. So. But that work. Works good, actually.

01;02;28;10 - 01;02;57;14
Fiona
Yeah, because I'm just, Oh, yeah. Because I've primarily worked with the foot pedal less. So the dial. Yeah. So I'm not super familiar with them as how they're functioning in comparison. I know we've run into I've talked to a lot of customers in the past who are wanting to switch from one to the other, and that becomes more difficult because there's you're having to rewire it, get it set up, get that switched over.

01;02;57;17 - 01;03;15;00
Fiona
That's not a super clean change from one to the other. Trying to reconfigure what you currently have. But it's interesting to see that when you do, you're just changing on one type or the other, the different hand pieces. That's something that's still very doable. Yeah.

01;03;15;03 - 01;03;40;18
Mark
Yeah. So that's cool, I hope. I hope we get more questions like this. This this is really fun. Well, that's all for today's show. Thank you to JJ Otero for joining us today is fascinating. To learn more about his creative process and his journey from woodworking to creating some of the most amazing jewelry in the marketplace. The story he shared about teaching other jewelry instructors about the importance they play in the lives of their students really, really gave me goosebumps, but also like to thank today's sponsor, Bonnie Do.

01;03;40;18 - 01;03;58;24
Mark
Made exclusively for Rio Grande and designed by jewelers for jewelers in Taos, New Mexico, Bonnie Dean tools provide the safest to most versatile metal forming solutions. Available now through the end of November. Use code Bonnie ten at checkout to get 10% off our Bonnie Do tools. Do you have a question you'd like answered on the show, or do you want to submit ideas for future episodes?

01;03;58;24 - 01;04;04;07
Mark
Email us at podcast@riogrande.com. Until next time, thank you for listening and have a great day.