EP 14: How to Stop Avoiding Conflict and Reconnect in Your Relationship with Colette Jane Fehr

Have you ever stayed quiet because bringing something up felt harder than just letting it go? Between busy schedules, phones, family responsibilities, and years of falling into familiar patterns, it can be surprisingly easy to become disconnected from the people closest to you without realizing it. I sat down with licensed marriage and family therapist Colette Jane Fehr to talk about why avoiding conflict can quietly create distance, and how approaching difficult conversations with honesty and vulnerability can actually bring you closer. We unpack the difference between sharing what you’re truly feeling and turning your interpretations into facts about the other person. You’ll walk away with practical ways to start hard conversations, recognize when you’re abandoning your own needs to keep the peace, and begin rebuilding connection even if your relationship has been on autopilot for years.

You'll Learn:

• How to start a difficult conversation without blame or defensiveness
• How to separate your feelings from the story you're telling yourself about your partner
• What to do when your partner says, “Nothing’s wrong” or “You’re overreacting”
• How to recognize the “siren song of avoidance”
• Ways to protect your relationship while still getting support from friends
• Why midlife can be an opportunity to reconnect
• How to stop keeping the peace at your own expense

Links:

Connect with Colette:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/colettejanefehr 

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@colettejanefehr

Substack: Secrets from a Therapist https://colettejanefehr.substack.com/

Watch Colette’s TEDx Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tSUOB2yEd0 

Order a copy of The Cost of Quiet: How to Have the Hard Conversations That Create Secure, Lasting Love: https://www.colettejanefehr.com/new-book 

Get a copy of Amy’s Best selling book: CANNONBALL! FEARLESSLY Facing Midlife and Beyond here

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And don’t forget to follow along on all the socials:

http://instagram.com/theamy.schmidt

https://www.facebook.com/fearlesslyfacingfifty/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-schmidt-a5684412/

Transcript

When Stories Become “Truth”

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The biggest mistake is that people throw their interpretations back and forth as truths. Right? You never prioritize me. All you care about is work. You don't listen. You don't care about my feelings. Those things may come to feel true. And usually those stories are built up because we haven't addressed small issues as they arise. But if we take our story and we don't give the other person any room to speak for themselves, you guarantee the other person gets defensive.

Welcome To The Right Size Life

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Hey fearless friends, it's Amy. Welcome to The Right Size Life. I'm so glad you're here. If we've never met before, I'm Amy Schmidt, founder of Fearlessly Facing 50, best-selling author, TEDx speaker, national media contributor, and this fall, the author of my newest book, The Right Size Life. For years I've had the privilege of encouraging women through television, speaking on stages across the country, writing books, and building a community that's all about embracing life with courage instead of fear. But somewhere along the way, I realized something. Second half of life isn't asking us to do more, it's inviting us to make space for what matters most. That's what the Right Size Life is all about. It's not having less, it's about having more room. For joy, for peace, for help, for meaningful relationships, for purpose, and for becoming the woman you're meant to be in this season of life. Each week I'll sit down with best-selling authors, experts, thought leaders, and inspiring guests for conversations that will encourage you to right size every area of your life, from your home and your health to your calendar, your relationships, your mindset, and your dreams. Because I believe sometimes the next chapter begins with letting go. So grab your coffee, lace up your walking shoes, or settle into your favorite chair. I'm so grateful you're here. Welcome to the right size life. Let's make space for what matters most.

Why Silence Slowly Breaks Trust

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Today's conversation is one I think will resonate with so many women. How many of us have stayed quiet to keep the peace? How many times have we swallowed our feelings? Because it's easier than having the hard conversation. My guest today is Colette Jane Fair, licensed marriage and family therapist, TEDx speaker, relationship expert, and the author of The Cost of Quiet: How to Have the Hard Conversations That Create Secure Lasting Love. She believes it's not often the big betrayals that slowly erode relationships, but the thousands of moments we choose silence over honesty. I can't wait for you to hear this conversation. Before we get started with our guest today, I just want to remind everybody that there's a couple great things going on right now over at fearlesslyfacing50.com. Remember, 50 is spelled out, F-I-F-T-Y. And you can go ahead and follow on socials, Fearlessly Facing50, over on Facebook and the Amy.schmidt on Instagram. And a couple great things. So don't forget, you can go to the website and order my first book called Cannonball Fearlessly Facing Midlife and Beyond. And yes, that is me jumping off a cliff right there in Jamaica on my 50th birthday. Boy, over six years ago now, kind of crazy. So we're excited to be in the editing phase. Actually, I'm in the first round of edits on my second book called Creating the Right Size Life. I'm super excited about this. It'll be coming out this fall, and we are working diligently on edits and getting it ready to get into your hands. So make sure that you follow along and you can find all the good things. I also have a newsletter. It's coming out weekly. You know, for a while I'd stepped back from doing that, and now it's consistently coming out on Thursdays, and it's packed with all sorts of tangible takeaways for you actually to implement in your life to start that right sizing concept. What exactly does that mean? That doesn't necessarily mean going smaller, but it just means aligning your space with the season that you're in. So go along and go ahead and sign up for the newsletter as well. You can do that on Instagram. There's a spot there to sign up for the website. You can also email me. And, you know, if you followed me over on Fearlessly Facing50 for the last, gosh, six years, you will find that, you know, one of the big important things is we tend to overcommit. We kind of do the overs, right? We overcommit and overload ourselves with so many things. So when you email me, I will get back to you, but it takes me at least 48 hours to respond. You can go ahead and email and let me know that you want to sign up to get on the book list to pre-order. You can go ahead and sign up for my email list at Amy at fearlessly facing50 F I F T Y dot com. And before today's episode with Colette, which you are really going to enjoy, I just want to let you know that we are doing a book giveaway, The Cost of Quiet. This is a great, great, great read. There were so many great takeaways in here. Things that you can implement in your relationships right now, not only in your marriage, but also in your friendships. There's some great tools in here. So this giveaway will be on Instagram, and you can follow along as soon as this episode goes live. So let's get started with Colette Chain Fair.

Busyness Addiction And Relationship Drift

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Well, hey everybody. So excited for this show today. You know, I always say excited. This topic is going to be an interesting one. Now, I have been married almost 34 years, and still, you know, this book right here, and we're giving this away, The Cost of Quiet by Colette Fair, my guest today. There's some really good stuff in here. So let's get started. Colette, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. And, you know, we were talking before, you know, I used to do this in a studio. And when I'm away in the summer, I do it from my home. And, you know, like anything, we are a work in progress, right? We're like constantly learning things.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Constantly learning, constantly growing. And the best teacher, love it or hate it, is failure, is struggle, is what doesn't go well.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Exactly. Exactly. So let's dig in to a topic that is going to resonate with so many listeners today. First of all, the topic and the cover of this book I love, but the whole title stopped me in my tracks. The cost of quiet, how to have the card conversations that create secure lasting love. You know, I always say we wear this badge of busyness as a badge of honor. We are that society that has to do more. You know, the calendar has to be filled every hour. If it's not, we're not successful, right? And I think this can really kind of trickle down into our relationships, especially our marriages. We get too busy and then we can't get off that hamster wheel to really connect.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Oh my gosh, you're so right. You're so right. I mean, I would say that is one of the most common contributing factors I see for almost all my couples.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Yeah. Why is it that we can stand in line at Starbucks and talk to somebody and have a friend come up? And the first thing they say is, Amy, how are you doing? And you say, Oh, great, but I'm so busy.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Yep. Yeah. Why do we do that? Well, I think we're addicted to it, especially in America. It's part of the rugged American individualism and our capitalistic background. And I'm not getting political here, but it's the ethos in which our country was founded. And now that we're able to work around the clock, that just feeds into, you know, because of these nasty little devices that I'm addicted to. Amen. I had to turn it on. Yeah, I'm guilty. I'm guilty as church. You get anxiety, and it's been shown when your phone is too far away from you, the average person checks their phone so many times a day, it's actually mind-blowing. So because we can work all the time, that also feeds into the fact that we're already oriented that way. We're a very success-driven society. But the problem is that we get all this dopamine from achievement, from checking off our to-do list, from doing well at work, and we get a lot of positive, even some slow dopamine about achievement and accomplishment. So it's not all bad, but then it fuels wanting to do that more. And often it does come at the expense of our closest relationships. That's the problem.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Exactly.

Conflict Can Create Real Closeness

SPEAKER_01 8:28

You know, you say the biggest threat to relationships often isn't infidelity or finances, it's emotional disconnection that grows from avoiding conflict. All right, so let's dig into this. It's funny because my husband and I are like, he avoids conflict more than I do. I think I think it comes down to communication. I feel like I am this, I shouldn't say better at communicating because I don't think that's right, but I do think people that are able to be a little more transparent with their communication are better at conflict. And isn't conflict really lack of communicating?

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Yeah, well, okay, so chicken and egg a little bit, but I love what you're saying. So conflict gets a bad rap. People think of conflict. Most people, if I say conflict and you guys listening, right? What's the first thing you think of? Whenever I do a talk or like a keynote and I ask people what comes to mind when you think of conflict, it's usually very negative words, right? Arguing, disconnection, distress. It spirals out of control. Now we don't even know what we're fighting about. But the word conflict really just means something's happening where we might disagree, right? Or we have to resolve an issue. And conflict can actually be the greatest opportunity for growth and connection. In fact, the way people feel the closest really does come down to almost more than anything. Not that you enjoy the same sports and activities or have a date night. It really comes down to that you're a couple who, when there's something that could turn into an argument, you don't lean out, you lean in, but you handle it constructively because there's a big difference between the kind of injurious arguing that we conflate conflict with that we typically think of, and really healthy conflict, which is let me be clear, let me be transparent. And there are some things that we can focus on there that I'm happy to get into that really help us make conflict a good experience.

How To Start The Hard Talk

SPEAKER_01 10:25

So walk me through some of those conversation starters. Say we're sitting in our living room at night. It's been a long day, something is brewing, you can feel the tension, but you're both on your devices because, you know, that's what we're doing. I mean, I do that, my husband does that. You know, walk me through those conversation starters where we can really get in and start dealing with conflict.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Okay, so let me just say first, this is a great example. That's the most common scenario. But I want to say first that if you're not accustomed to doing this, what I'm gonna tell you is so simple. It's not rocket science. You don't have to be a genius, you don't have to be a psychologist, but we don't do it for some very powerful reasons that I think are important to acknowledge. So, first of all, we have this neurobiological paradox that we're wired for connection. We want to be close, we want to share, we want to be understood. That's wired in because we know to survive and thrive from all the studies that close relationships that are safe, reliable, and predictable are actually how we do best in life. So that's in us. At the same time, we're wired to protect ourselves and we're wired to protect these relationships. So conflict feels like a threat often, especially if you don't know how to navigate it. And let's be honest, most of us did not witness healthy handling of conflict in childhood. It doesn't even mean you had bad parents or a terrible situation. You know, I share a lot that I had great parents, but they got divorced and they fought a lot before they got divorced. So I grew up thinking conflict is scary and to be avoided. So all of that is in our body that when that tension you describe is brewing, and we're sitting there on our phones, like, God, do I say something? I don't, I've had a long day at work. I don't want to get in a fright. Yeah, me too. And even though I do this for a living and my entire mission in life is devoted to this message, I feel that same tension within because it is part of our nervous system to go, uh-oh, this is the person I love, our romantic partner in particular, but it could apply to a parent, a really close friend. Those close relationships are so important to us that anything that feels like it could take it in a bad direction is gonna feel scary in the body. So we've got to acknowledge that that's a given. The mistake that people make is that, and I call it, I don't even really call it this in the book because it came to me after I wrote the book and have talked about this od nauseum, but I like to call it the siren song of avoidance. How quickly our mind automatically throws us thoughts. And I'm gonna say a couple of them, and everyone listening will probably relate. We'll tell ourselves, oh, you know what? It's not that big of a deal. I'll get over it by tomorrow. It's not worth getting it to. Yes. Yep. That thought, the other thought is, oh, this could just lead to a fight for no reason. It's not worth it, right? It's not gonna go well. And the third, and one of the most insidious common thoughts, is it's probably not gonna make a difference anyway. So why bother?

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

So the reason I call it the siren song, like Odysseus to the rocks, is that this automated response in the mind is trying to protect us from taking the risk to be vulnerable and maybe not feeling like our needs or our feelings are met. It's very natural to be scared of that. But if we're not super aware, our mind is gonna throw us those thoughts. We're gonna shut it down before it's even had a chance to breathe. Okay. Once we've acknowledged, oh, this is just what my mind does to try to keep me safe, it's gonna tell me it's not worth it. I'll get over it. Instead of that, we start by acknowledging what's happening. It's that simple. Really getting honest, clear, and vulnerable. Let's say you're feeling the tension and you don't know where to start. I mean, the research shows that how you start these conversations, I call it taking a delicate dive. Really, how you ramp up, if you fire off with, why aren't you talking to me? I'm so sick of this. You know, right? Everybody listening can relate to that. That's how we start. Yeah. Right. And then we're off on a bad trip. Or yeah, what's wrong? Or you know what? You're being so cold. Blame, accusation, assumption, you know, I know what I've thought or said at times is like, don't take your work stress out on me. You know, like it's this like protest statement. We're more likely then to get a bad response back. But if instead we're transparent and clear and vulnerable and we say, you know, I'm sitting here on my phone and feeling so tense. And part of me doesn't even want to bring this up because I don't want to argue with you, but I feel like something's not okay between us. Could we talk about it? It's gentle, it's real. What it really is, is that we just have to name what we're experiencing inside and take ownership that our experiences are experience instead of focusing on the other person. Tell them what's happening inside of you and start gently.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Yeah, and you're not passing blame. You're not really also operating from a position of power. You're really kind of just laying the groundwork, kind of like Geneva. You're pretty neutral there.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Yes, yes. The neutral is so important.

Feelings Versus The Partner Story

SPEAKER_00 15:52

So I always boil it down to being really, really clear, assertive, which assertive gets misunderstood, and vulnerable. And vulnerability gets misunderstood since the time of Brene Brown, who fortunately brought that to the forefront. But vulnerability is said so often, people don't know what it means. It doesn't mean you have to like blubber for an hour about emotions. I mean, you can if you want to. Being vulnerable is just saying the truth about what you feel. And we tend to skip over what we're feeling, meaning your emotions. And we name the interpretation, what I call the negative partner story, as our feelings. So for example, and this is how you experience it, that same scenario. What if I said, what if I had a story in my mind because my marriage had been getting disconnected? And this actually is kind of close to home in many of my relationships. I'm the emotional one. I always date and I'm now married to these like strong, silent financial type of guys who are numbers people and you know, the oppositeness. So I'll always interpret things as like you don't care, right? So you're not talking to me. Well, maybe I'm not talking to you either, but I want you to talk to me because I feel like you never want to talk to me. And I start all the conversations. So I'm sitting here getting into a very young part of self that's feeling hurt that you're not initiating a conversation with me. So if I say, you know, you never even want to talk to me, you just come home and sit there and sprawl on your phone. Automatically, like I feel like you don't care. I feel like you don't want to talk about me. I'm blaming, I'm accusing, I'm assuming, and I'm saying I'm sharing my feelings, but I'm not. I'm sharing my interpretation. Sharing my feelings would be to say, you know, I feel hurt right now. And the story in my mind is that you don't really want to talk to me at the end of the day. And it's very vulnerable for me to feel like I'm the one who always initiates the conversation. Can you reassure me that you do want to talk to me? You know, I think I really need for you to sometimes initiate our conversations. See the difference and how it doesn't guarantee a good response, but you have the best chance possible to be heard and responded to when you come forward the ladder.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

I love that. That's a great conversation starter right there. Now let's take it a little further. What if they say nothing's wrong? Everything's fine. Yeah, then where do you go? Because then you're kind of back to that feeling of discontentment and disconnection. Because a lot of times, you know, they might just say, Oh, you're just overreacting. I'm fine, I'm tired, it's been a long day.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

So I would, if I got you're overreacting, first of all, it's a very inflammatory statement. Very inflammatory, also a common statement. Yep. And I would hear that a lot in my first marriage. In my second marriage, I've been with my husband for almost 14 years. I believe he thinks that sometimes, but I've trained him never to say that. Right. Yeah. No, right. But if you get that response, okay, so I think a couple things. There's two scenarios here. Choose your own adventure. First, we've got nothing's wrong, everything's fine. Okay, we just continue to be honest. Yeah. Okay, like I want to take you at your word. I still feel like there's tension between us. I can't help it. And part of the process I teach in my book where I make this all very easy. So you're gonna know exactly what you feel, exactly what you need, and exactly what to say. Like I give you scripts.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Tangible takeaways. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Yes, yes. The reason I wrote the book is not everyone can go to a therapist, and it's a lot of time and a lot of money, and I want to make this more accessible. We should all be doing this, and we don't know how. So I would say you still stick with the same thing. And in my process, you're checking with yourself inside, your sage self, that wise loving part of you. Okay, my partner's telling me everything's fine, everything doesn't feel fine. And you know what? It might be your own interpretation, it might be the history of the relationship, but then it's just to be honest. What do I need right now? Okay, I want to believe you. Can you just reassure me? Can you give me a hug? Because I'm still feeling like there's tension. I'm not saying you're not being honest with me, but I just don't feel quite okay. I need a hug, or could we spend some time together? What do you need? If your partner says you're overreacting, I would suggest you check in with yourself on how that lands for you. For me, that really pisses me off. It's like a grenade. And that's also my own trigger points and wounds being a more emotional person. They may not mean to throw a grenade at me, but I would say, you know, when you tell me I'm overreacting when I'm trying to share my feelings, you know, it's hurtful to me. The message I get is that the way I feel isn't valid. And that may not be what you're intending, but it doesn't feel good to hear that. You know, if there isn't anything wrong, could you just reassure me? So we're always naming our emotions and our interpretation and holding the interpretation lightly. The big mistake people make, Amy, is they throw their interpretations back and forth like truths.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Oh, wow. Say that again. The biggest mistake is that people throw their interpretations back and forth as truths, right? You never prioritize me. All you care about is work. You don't listen, you don't care about my feelings. Those things may come to feel true. And usually those stories are built up because we haven't addressed small issues as they arise. But if we take our story and we don't give the other person any room to speak for themselves, you guarantee the other person gets defensive.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Yep. Yep. Wow. Okay. We've been in this conversation for 15 minutes and it is like blowing me away. But you're so good at this. And you're such a good communicator. So so many viewers and listeners today are saying, okay, now I know where to start this.

Midlife Marriage Autopilot And Gray Divorce

SPEAKER_01 22:06

We're talking to Colette Jane Fair, the cost of quiet. We're about halfway through our conversation, and now we're going to transition over to midlife. Because I think that, you know, at this point in relationships, and let's talk about first marriages. You know, for example, we've been married almost 34 years. I have a daughter that's here with her fiance right now. They're getting married. You know, they're kind of watching, and I'm sure my future son-in-law is watching his parents' relationship too. It changes over time, let's be honest, right? I mean, it really does. What is it? Isn't there something about sleep divorce? People are sleeping in separate bedrooms, they're more disconnected. And gray divorce, gray divorce is on the rye is big time. Do you feel like midlife relationships get better? Kind of like wine, it gets better with age, or is it a time when we really are the most disconnected because we've had our kids, maybe, you know, we like two ships passing in the night all those years, and we kind of got used to that cadence. And now it's like full on, you're with that person all the time.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Oh, I love this question. So I think it depends. It depends on, in large part, if you're doing the stuff I'm talking about in the book, right? Are you talking about things? Is there emotional intimacy? Is there a connection? I'm not saying that affairs don't happen or that there aren't issues that can contribute, but couples who are emotionally connected and know how to navigate conflict don't tend to break up even when they hit the hardest waters. What happens in midlife is that the marriages that have been on autopilot, I tend to refer to it as surface marriage, but I've seen a lot in the news lately calling it silent divorce, empty shell marriage. These are, you know, there was just an article in the New York Times recently about empty shell marriage. So what so many people, and in fact, the session I had before I got on with you today, the marriage seemed great. It's not that these people don't love each other. They're coasting along, they've got great kids, they've got full lives, they're busy. And now the kids are going to college, they're becoming empty nesters. And actually, in this case, an affair did happen because they weren't connected, they weren't discussing stuff, they were sweeping it under the rug. And now they're looking at each other. Do we repair this? And going, you know, we have been so distant and we didn't even realize it. So I think that's why we're seeing the rise of gray divorce. On the flip side, you've been married 34 years. Many couples who have stayed connected and maybe they've weathered some really difficult seasons. I don't think you can be married a long time and not have some hard times or some seasons maybe where you're not as connected or you're wondering, do I still want this person? All that's normal. But those couples who navigate, they're in it, they talk about it, they're at least addressing it, they tend to get to midlife, even though we're in the sandwich generation where we may be still parenting and taking care of aging parents of our own. A lot of people, it's a renaissance, it's a honeymoon. Oh my God, the kids are gone. We get to travel. Now we can finally work on us. And I think there are some people in between. And I want to encourage them where, okay, maybe we floated on autopilot and we're not as connected, but we don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Let's dig in and like reignite our connection a little here. And maybe this is the first time you learn to address conflict in a healthy way and you develop real emotional intimacy, which comes from sharing painful feelings, talking about fears, doubts, insecurities, goals, longing, future. All that can happen, even for some people who are disconnected. I think it's the ones where the connection's been gone for so long and it's just so dead. They're so detached. That's where it's hard to resuscitate. I know my answers are so long-winded. I should do a better job of curbing it, but I'm so passionate on this topic because I don't want everyone to just feel like either we have to stay silently married, like the silent divorce, or, you know, we should just get divorced. Like there is an in between.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that. And I I love that your long-winded answers because they have so much wisdom and nuggets in them. And everything in the book is so well outlined. It's similar to kind of the first book that I wrote, had the same type of thing where you go to the end of the chapter and you're like, okay, I can actually apply this to my life today. And I think personally, I think this is a good book to read with your spouse or partner.

Self Abandonment Resentment And Boundaries

SPEAKER_01 26:40

I think it's a good book to do in your book club with your friendships. This isn't just about marriage. This is about rebuilding any type of relationships because communication is key.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Absolutely. And you know, that's what I ended up doing actually, is the keynote I developed, it's not even just about romantic partnerships. It's the same principles for all relationships. And in fact, also, Amy, I had a challenge not long ago. I've gotten very good at doing this process in my marriage because as I explain in the book, whether you're using this in a romantic partnership or another relationship, this is a muscle. And the more you lean into conflict and experience that it goes well, I've been getting emails from people saying, oh my God, I have the hardest relationship, my spouse is impossible, and I tried your methods and I did not think it would work. And I got a totally different reaction than I thought. So you might be surprised. But what I just experienced in my own life is that even though my muscle is really built up to confront things with my husband, and we usually work through it even if it's messy, I had a situation with a friend and I felt myself wanting to avoid. I felt myself wanting to default to all of this. And possibly had I not written this book and taken such a stand, I would have succumbed to that siren song. But I pushed myself. I used my own method, I used my own blueprint because I felt so nervous about telling this friend that she had really hurt me and potentially friendship-ending situation. Yep. And I did it. And I'm I'm not speaking to her right now, not like icing her out. I just don't know if I want the friendship to move forward. But I said it clearly and kindly, and I felt so much better inside.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Such a relief. And I think that that's just something we, you know, as we get older, we find these relationships with people that, you know, really add value to our life. I mean, you know, tomorrow's not guaranteed. We all know that. We've all had health scares, relationship changes, whatever. So we have to really invest in those relationships that really are bringing us joy and value. And I call it a life edit. I have to do that every so often. And I think it's important.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

In this case, you know, there are a few things in life that are really important. She really was so hurtful and non-supportive around something that was one of the most important things in my life that it really made me question I don't have ill will toward her. I'm not angry anymore. And I was able to say the truth without blaming or accusing or speaking to her motives just to say when this happened, it really hurt me deeply. And the message I got is that friendship with me is not a priority, that I'm not important to you. And she apologized. I accepted her apology. I said, I don't need you to do anything. I just, I can't unknow what I now know. And so it leaves me questioning the future. Let's see what happens. Yes. But I appreciate your apology. And thank you for hearing me out. And speaking the truth, we are also designed to stand up for ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

We are. We're also designed, I think, as peacekeepers, don't you think? Don't you think women are always wanting to keep the peace? Yes. I mean, we are. We're nurturers, we're all that, and we just want to be.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

We're relational. Yes. Yes. Yes. So part of this, and another part of the mission of my book, and you're right, it's for everyone. But I I wrote in the intro that I wrote it for women, not because it only applies to women. In fact, all my male clients I've been having read the book, but just because I'm a woman and I'm a former people pleaser, I'm a people pleaser in recovery, we are relational, we are nurturers. And it is great to want to work through things. The only thing is we also have to be aware that sometimes that causes us to self-abandon. We're too quick to opt. That was my question for you. Self-abandonment. Yes. Yes. And that's the danger. And I think midlife is a place where many women we finally get to and say, okay, I see that I've been doing this. I've been putting myself last. You know, my needs are on the shelf for everyone else. A lot of people have a lot of resentment. Resentment's that drinking poison, hoping someone else will die. And I always say, I call it the cave of resentment in the book, but I always say that resentment is really misdirected anger. You think you're angry at other people, but really deep down, you're angry at yourself for not advocating for yourself, saying no, having boundaries. Boundaries don't have to be big, like declarative things. It's just your needs matter. And if you have foreclosed on that too often, being angry at other people who made you feel guilty, I would challenge you to get curious about that. Because those were really your decisions and you got to own them. That's where the change begins.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Yeah. Yeah. I

The Couple Bubble And Friend Venting

SPEAKER_01 31:46

love that. I want to talk about accountability for a minute because I'm a believer in not only mentors, I have mentors, but I want to talk about accountability in relationships. I think this is sticky for some people because we might have those friends that could be an accountability partner around this whole communication disconnect in our marriage. And women tend to, we go out, okay, we're out with our girlfriends at the book club, and we never talk about the book. We talk about something else. Or, you know, we're out for a walk. And all of a sudden it starts kind of going down that. We start talking about our husbands or spouses or our relationship and how it's not working. And then all of a sudden it festers a little bit. And now you feel like, wow, she knows a lot about my relationship. You go home, and then your husband is thinking, or spouse is thinking, well, why are you sharing this with somebody? Like, why are you sharing these intimate details of our struggles or our relationships or even our great things that are going on? Do we need an accountability partner? How much should we really be sharing with them about this?

SPEAKER_00 32:47

This is such a tricky one because I am such an external processor. And I really mean I really feel better and arrive at conclusions and understand myself by talking things out with another person. And some people process more internally. So it is hard to never talk about some of this stuff with a friend. And some people all they have is their friends. But I do have to say there is a thing called the couple bubble, a concept that comes from Stan Tacken, who's a big, famous, wonderful couples therapist out in California, the creator of the psychobiological approach to couples therapy. And he's also an amazing guy. But the couple bubble is this idea that you and your partner come first. And your job is to preserve that bubble, right? Everything else is secondary, even the kids to a degree. Not that you don't love your kids more than anything, but you and your partner and your respect and your protection of that bubble, which is fragile, is paramount. So every time you're going and talking to somebody else about what's going on, you're triangulating a bit, you're sharing your private information. Here's my personal opinion on it. Have maybe one friend you talk about some stuff with, but not if it's at the expense of talking to your partner. The mistake people make is that I feel stressed and tense. Like let's go back to that moment where we're on our phones and it feels tense. I say nothing because I don't want to get in a fight. It won't make a difference. It's not worth it. Tomorrow I'm over it, but I'm kind of not. And instead of going to my husband and saying, you know, honey, it feels like lately there's kind of unspoken tension. I'm kind of scared to have this conversation. I don't know where to start. I'm afraid of what I might hear. Like there's all this stuff, but I want to bring it to you because you're so important to me. This relationship matters so much. You know, are you feeling it too? Can we talk about it? If you don't do that and you instead go to your friend and say, Oh my God, he's such a dick. He just sits there on his phone all night. I don't know what his problem is. I'm so over it. And your friend's like, oh my God. Yeah, my husband does the same thing. And you don't ever say it there. You're popping your couple bubble and you're also ensuring that you never get anywhere. And the problem is you're going to feel some relief because it gets rid of some of that gook and tension inside of you venting to your friend. But you are avoiding with a capital A and you're really sabotaging your relationship.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Yeah. Thank you for sharing. I think that's so true. And I think that actually will resonate with a lot of people. Because we have a tendency to do that. You know, you're at a party and you're like, I've done it too. I mean, it happens. You come home after a party and you're like, oh, Bobby and Sally feel they just are so into each other and they they just seem so happy. And you know, you know, it's kind of that comparison, that thief of joy thing.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

But that's a great example too. Or people will say, so and so also thinks this is an example of you, or so-and-so are affectionate on so-and-so has sex four times a week. Yes, you know. So I want to encourage you, we're comparative creatures, but take a pause and get curious. If so-and-so are doing this and you want to point it out, okay, what does that say about how you're feeling and what you might be needing? And try to express that instead. I'm afraid maybe our intimacy is lacking, and it's really hard to bring this up. This is a scary conversation to have. How do you feel about it? Instead of so-and-so.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

So perfect.

Closing Advice Resources And Next Steps

SPEAKER_01 36:30

The costume quiet, we are giving this book away on Instagram. So as soon as this episode drops, you will find out how to get a copy of this amazing book. Uh share a little bit where we can find you and kind of what's next for you. And then I have one final question.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

Sure. So I am everywhere. I feel like you are everywhere. No, it feels like it. It feels like it for better or worse. I'm very active on Instagram. I'm on TikTok too at Colette Jane Fair and it's C-O-L-E-T-T-E, just one L Jane, and fair is spelled F-E-H-R. I also have a very active substack called Secrets from a Therapist. I send out a great newsletter every week that is free. I mean, there's a paid subscription too, but for free, I give tons of relationship advice and information that is immediately useful and for all your relationships. So I encourage you to follow me there. I have a TEDx talk that's great called Secrets from a Couples Therapist. You can tell I have a theme here. And I have a regular segment on Fox 35. So I'm I'm kind of all over the place. You can't miss me. But please reach out. I would love to hear what you think of the book.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

I will have everything in the episode notes, links to follow Colette, everything. I hope I can have you back on because your passion and your purpose just intersect. And you can tell it's it's contagious. You have so much wisdom. And we didn't even get into things I wanted to talk about. I wanted to talk about second marriage. So I'm gonna have to have you back. I will come back anytime. And last question for you is the one I asked everybody. So buckle up for this one. If you're sitting on the couch, Colette, and you look over and there is 30-year-old Colette, what advice would you give her?

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Oh, okay, that's like when I got my divorce. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Didn't know that. So I just got goosebumps everywhere. I mean, I wrote this book, The Cost of Quiet, to give my 30-year-old self the advice I wish I had. I would tell her that her voice matters, that her emotions are not too much, that she should speak what's true, that she deserves to be loved and heard and honored and respected, and that everything she's feeling, she's feeling for a reason, and there's nothing wrong with her. And to say it out loud. Mic drop.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Thank you. I didn't know that would hit so close. Sometimes I say 25, sometimes I say 30, but boom, there you go. See? Yep.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Yeah. Thank you so much for this time. Thank you so much for having me. And I'd love to come back and talk to your listeners and you anytime. Awesome. All right. Have a great day, everybody.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

We will be in touch. Thanks so much for joining me today on The Right Size Life. If this episode resonated with you, I hope you'll share it with someone who may need a little encouragement, clarity, or inspiration in this season of life. And don't forget to subscribe. You know the right size life. Originally Fearlessly Facing50. And now we've rebranded to the Right Size Life. So make sure you're following it on anywhere you listen to podcasts. It's on all the platforms. And you can find me at Fearlessly Facing50.com, F-I-F-T-Y, remember 50 is always spelled out. On Instagram, I'm the Amy.schmidt, and on Facebook at Fearlessly Facing50. And I would love for you to get on the waiting list for my book, which will be launching soon. So if you'd like to be on the list and the first to know when it launches, you can go ahead and simply email me, Amy at Fearlessly Facing50.com, F-I-F-T-Y.com, and put the word list L I S T in the subject line, and I will add you to the waiting list. And remember, sometimes the next chapter begins with letting go. I'll see you next time on the right size life. Have a great and blessed week.