Back from the Brink & The Big Bat Year

S1E2 We have two guests appearing on this episode:

Back from the Brink is one of the most ambitious conservation projects ever undertaken. Its aim – to save 20 species from extinction and benefit over 200 more through 19 projects that span England; from the tip of Cornwall to Northumberland.

In our second episode, we talk about one of the UK’s rarest bats, the grey long-eared with Craig Dunton – BCT’s project officer for the Back from the Brink project – and how the project has been working to conserve the species and reverse their decline over the last four years. Find out more here: https://naturebftb.co.uk/

We also talk to the 22 year old behind The Big Bat Year https://www.bigbatyear.com/ Nils Bouillard spoke to Steve whilst he was visiting the UK earlier in the year about the challenges of travelling the world to see as many bats as possible and how his adventure is helping spread the word about bats.

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Producer: Steve Roe @SteveRoeBatMan
Cover Art: Rachel Hudson http://rachelhudsonillustration.com/info

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Transcript

Nils Bouillard: 1:01

Those techniques don't work. They're the same no matter which bats you have. So there's a lot that can be exchanged between all those people.

Steve Roe: 1:08

That's Nils Bouillard talking about his big bat year. And we'll be talking to Nils later on in the show. But first, we're speaking with Craig Dunton from the Bat Conservation Trust, who's leading the bat element of the back from the brink project. I'm Steve Roe, and this is BatChat. So it's the Sunday morning of the National Bat Conference, and it's the first coffee break of the day. And it's a lovely sunny day, and Craig and myself are set outside by the fountain which is the noise in the background. Craig is the BCT project manager for the back for the brink project. Craig, the BCT website says that the back for the brink project is one of the most ambitious conservation projects ever undertaken, which is quite a claim. What why is that? Why is it such a ambitious project?

Craig Dunton: 1:53

I think it's probably a combination of, you know, its ambition to save 100 priority threatened species that are on the brink of extinction. And to get those in a recovering position by 2020. That's quite an ambitious target. But also the the nature of the partnership. It's a partnership between Natural England and rethink nature. So there's seven sort of leading conservation organisations involved. So working in a collaborative way is kind of the target. And that is quite an ambitious thing to try and undertake.

Steve Roe: 2:30

And then the project is got to be finished by 2020. So how long is that project been running for?

Craig Dunton: 2:35

So different projects within the programme have got different sort of lifespans, essentially. My project started in 2017. And in the summer, and I've got until early 2021.

Steve Roe: 2:49

And we should say what the species is, what is the species assuming is about which one is it?

Craig Dunton: 2:53

It's the grey long-eared. Yeah, so one of England's most rare mammals, very much restricted to the south coast, as I'm sure a lot of listeners will be aware of, or I shouldn't say the south coast, I should say, the south of the country, but most of the population is along the south coast.

Steve Roe: 3:10

And who developed the project starts off with who were the stakeholders involved.

Craig Dunton: 3:15

BCT were obviously a key stakeholder. Probably Carol Williams was a sort of driving force behind it all.

Steve Roe: 3:23

The project's been ongoing for that time. And there's been all sorts of survey work done. What so far has the project told us about grey long-eared's?

Craig Dunton: 3:31

I think probably the probably one of the main things that it's highlighted is that it is very rare. It's you know, we've been raising awareness about the species, amongst consultants, bat groups, and we have picked up new records, and we have picked up a new roost. But it's kind of they are very sporadic, and they're usually very low numbers or single bats.

Steve Roe: 3:52

And what's the estimated population size of grey long-eared's at the moment?

Craig Dunton: 3:55

So the current estimates are around 1000. According to the last year's 2018, mammall review,

Steve Roe: 4:02

and how many roosts do we know of at the moment?

Craig Dunton: 4:05

So maternity colonies, it's around nine. It's it's one of those species that's it's tricky to quite often tricky to say whether it is actually a maternity roost, because a lot of the maternity roosts are such such low numbers of bats.

Steve Roe: 4:20

What makes grey longer bats so special? Why are people so interested in them?

Craig Dunton: 4:25

I guess, partly it's the rarity. It's, you know, they they are really charismatic species, one of our two longest species. They're just, I mean, they're just amazing are there they're just super cute. They have very distinctive sort of dog like muzzle or horse-like muzzle, some, some consultants would like to say. So, yeah, it's just an amazing bat.

Steve Roe: 4:50

And for listeners at home, who don't know that much about the ecology of the species, can you just give us some idea of that? Where do they roost? What sort of things are their roosts in, what habitats do they need? Things like that?

Craig Dunton: 5:02

Okay, yeah. So, like for all of our UK bat species, there's kind of like sort of three core things that bats need. They're roosting sites, they're foraging sites and good connectivity in the landscape, to allow them to get from one to the other. So in terms of summer, maternity roosts these are traditionally in sort of big stone buildings with slate roofs. They like big open spaces, generally pretty warm. For foraging through radio tracking studies and general set of observations, their favourite foraging habitat, species, rich grasslands, so wildflower meadows, also riparian habitats. And then obviously, good connectivity in the landscape usually comes in the form of hedgerows and other linear features, essentially.

Steve Roe: 5:50

And then you mentioned connectivity there and that's something that we're told again and again is really important for bat populations across the UK, is the project looking to work with stakeholders and landowners to improve that connectivity?

Craig Dunton: 6:01

Yeah, absolutely. So one of my key roles is landowner engagement. So talking to farmers and other landowners about the way they manage their land. And good hedgerow management and trying to create and maintain good, good quality connectivity is a big part of that.

Steve Roe: 6:18

And how realistic is it to expect grey long-eared's to expand from their current population size and to recover to something that we think is the more stable population size is that something that is actually going to be realistic,

Craig Dunton: 6:30

I like to hope so. So obviously, impacts of climate change you're going to be the models are that this species will be shifting northwards. So a key part of the project is to make sure that when that range is under pressure to move northwards, that there's good quality habitat there for it to move into.

Steve Roe: 6:53

And if people want to know more about the project, where's the best place for them to go and find out more information from?

Craig Dunton: 6:58

Yeah, so the back from the brink website is probably the best place. There's a grey long-eared page. And there's links to it from the BCT website as well.

Steve Roe: 7:08

And what was it that wants to make you get involved in this project? What's your background and what's made you so interested in it?

Craig Dunton: 7:14

So I guess I've always been interested in Bats and wildlife in general. My background is land management. I've been working on a landscape scale conservation project, sort of alongside this project. So that's kind of where my background comes in. My passion is to create more diverse habitats within the landscape to create that connectivity for biodiversity to be able to move through.

Steve Roe: 7:37

And finally, which three words would you use to describe the bat conservation movement,

Craig Dunton: 7:41

I guess, dynamic. Fast-moving, and passionate.

Steve Roe: 7:49

Great, thank you very much.

Craig Dunton: 7:49

No worries, good to talk to you.

Steve Roe: 7:52

And you can read more about the project and learn what are the species the project is bringing back from the brink by going to their website, which is included in the show notes. And next is something to remind us that bat conservation isn't just for the UK. Today, I've come to the Bat Conservation Trust offices in London, where Nils Bouillard is also visiting. And he's about to give a talk about his big bat year to the BCT staff today have come to be cities offices in London to meet a 22 year old who describes himself as a bat fanatic, a recent ecology, master student, Nils Bouillard, is from Belgium and is visiting as many countries as he can in something he's calling the big bat year. Nils it's a pleasure to meet you. What on earth is the big bat year?

Nils Bouillard: 8:30

So big bat year is. So I've taken a concept that many bird watchers know of, it's trying to see as many species as possible during calendar year. Now many people do it in their country, because it's easier and cheaper. But some people have taken the concept a lot further and travelled the entire world to do that. And I quite like the fact that they sort of attracted a lot of attention. And they use that intention to raise awareness on conservation. So I thought it would be a nice way to raise awareness on conservation of bats using a completely different approach. Because no one's ever done that before. Let's do crazy.

Steve Roe: 9:10

Okay, so objectives, visit as many countries as many species and then using that

Nils Bouillard: 9:15

it's actually only visited are only seeing as many species. So I have to like really pick and choose my countries. Yeah. But yeah, that many countries are escape, because it's just an important. And also there's the environment. Yeah. already bad enough.

Steve Roe: 9:30

So how does this relate to the conservation of bats?

Nils Bouillard: 9:33

So most people who are into bats in Europe, that they know what's going on with bat conservation in Europe, but elsewhere? Well, I've met many people who think there's nothing going on, and how you tell what while it mostly is, there is actually a lot going on. And I think local bat groups there also deserve their spotlight. And there are things that I've sort of experienced and learned about that I had no idea for example, the impact or religion on both bat hunting and bat conservation, because some religions hunt bats, other ones protect them. And when they coexist, it, you've got that weird mix. And I saw that firsthand in Sulawesi, Indonesia, and it something I probably wouldn't never have learned about.

Steve Roe: 10:27

Okay, so when did your passion for bass begin?

Nils Bouillard: 10:32

I've always loved wildlife. Even when I was three or four in kindergarten, I was given the nickname friend of the animals it wasn't Dutch because I wasn't in Dutch kindergarten. But yeah, and then I got seriously into bird watching and one day, we were invited by a bat group in Belgium to participate in a bat survey. And I just fell in love with the bats then.

Steve Roe: 11:01

And you say on your website that you've always greatly valued the importance of interaction with the public. How do you intend to show everyone how important that's are through through the big bat year?

Nils Bouillard: 11:10

So first thing I do is use social media. With things like Facebook and Instagram, you can really reach a lot of people through easily. People who may not really be into bats, but when you show them a cute picture of bats, it actually can change their mind on bat. Because mostly what they see about bats is what? Supermarkets so Halloween, and it's quite different from what parts really are. And they also have a website where share, obviously, sort of a more in depth content. And then well, I plan to do a few more talks. I had one that last night for London back group also intend to give some to non bat groups. So yeah,

Steve Roe: 11:53

so you're here for a couple of days in the UK, you plan on seeing any species here? Is it just a PR exercise being over?

Nils Bouillard: 11:59

It was mostly like a short trip with my parents. But then I thought I might give some talks. And I was planning on getting the soprano pipistrelle, which is fairly common in the UK, which is not the case in Belgium. I did not get it because I'm just wasn't the right area.

Steve Roe: 12:17

And what's the current that species tally that you're on at the moment is 229 229. Not at all jealous. And what's been the best species have seen so far and why

Nils Bouillard: 12:28

the best species oh wow...Well, that's a tricky, because I've seen a lot of really good ones. But I'd say the ones that make the most people jealous, because I mean, that's an objective way of saying it's a good one, the painted bat, a big day in Thailand, the bumblebee bat, which is the smallest bat and the smallest mammal on Earth. The heavy legged vampire bat Diphylla ecaudata de , which also happens to be one of my favourite bats I used for my logo, actually, the faces is difficult. And then there are also some species that I really like there's one that I photographed, I'm pretty sure they're amongst the first photographs published online. It's a flying fox saram flying fox, I think, the monkey or turnings flying fox probably I don't know, I don't know, common names. And then there's also that species I've discovered in the West. Barbara doesn't have a name,

Steve Roe: 13:26

but it's just casually dropped, then discovered a new species.

Nils Bouillard: 13:30

Well in Indonesia for bats is actually not that hard the hard bit is getting a permit after to describe it is tricky.

Steve Roe: 13:37

So tell us a bit more about that species you discovered then? Yeah, so

Nils Bouillard: 13:40

I was in West lab, what is very little research, I learned a few weeks ago that there's actually a lot more than I thought, but it's only published in Indonesia in the local church. So not really accessible. But I was in an area that's well known to birdwatchers. That's why I went there. And I was with a bird watching guide. But he helped me sort of what we were looking for bats together. None of us knew exactly what to do. Yeah. And I recorded it. And so a large renewal of it. And this is there is no large renewal of it in that area. So yes, very likely to be new.

Steve Roe: 14:20

And you're keen to get other young people involved in conservation. How do we go about doing that? And what do we do to keep their interest in nature sparked?

Nils Bouillard: 14:29

So that's a very tricky one. And during my time involvement in certain niche conservation NGOs, I always try to maybe not represent youth, but at least give a different point of view and things. And it's a question I still don't really have a proper answer to. But definitely you don't go about getting you young people into conservation like you do. Older people. We're not interested in things or we don't see things the same, same way. And I also think that usually the approach that's used to get people into conservation, showing how bad things are, but at least I feel like that's all we're getting. We're getting a lot of negative views. I have a lot of all the friends who keep telling me how things got worse and worse. But I find that a bit depressing. Sometimes they can give you the thing that you know, it's pointless. There's no point in getting into cancer. It's too late, but actually it's not. So what I want to do is also show like how you can have some fun with bats, basically, which is what I'm doing. Yeah. And I think that appears a lot more to young conservationists. Now, I'm not saying everyone should just travel the world to sea bass. Just makes no sense. But at least also, I want to show that Like, it's possible to see bats, even when you're not an academic. It's a lot of the bat conservation. But research is limited to academics. Barren, many people found bat watchers like there are bird watchers. And I think that's what we need to get people into bat conservation is just show that it's open to everyone.

Steve Roe: 16:16

And what are the challenges in getting the younger generation interested?

Nils Bouillard: 16:20

I'd say specifically for bat conservation and bat research, it's usually a financial issue. Yeah, because it requires a fair bit of equipment. And sometimes it wasn't. So countries licences and stuff. So training is also fairly expensive. And even just travelling, even in your local area can be expensive, because it's at night, so you can't rely on public transport. So it requires a larger budget than let's say birdwatching, where main expenses, binoculars, but you keep them for a long time. tronics may break. Not bad records have become cheaper and cheaper. And I think it's that trend is going to carry on. But there's still going to be sort of like an entry fee into conservation, but research.

Steve Roe: 17:14

So what's next for you after the big bat year what you plan on doing after you've finished?

Nils Bouillard: 17:19

That's a very good question, I keep asking myself. So well, I have a few ideas. So obviously, I want to write a book about my journey, not just about the bats I saw, but also what it's like to travel for bats, cultural experiences, that kind of things. And then there are also two projects I want to work on. One is to create a Open Access database of backhauls around the world, which doesn't exist currently, it's all sort of non behind paywalls like scientific papers, but still, it's not easy, easily accessible. And I also want to sort of create a community of young people who antibac conservation, because I've met a few of them. And every time I realised that we are facing pretty much the same problems of beginning beginning of academia, stress, or just how do I get the equipment relatively cheap, or even a technics back recording how to get reference calls, how to miss that those techniques don't bother the same no matter which box you have. Yeah, so there's a lot that can be exchanged between all those people. And yeah, I think that would be valuable to bat conservation.

Steve Roe: 18:39

How much longer is left to the big bat year. So for So

Nils Bouillard: 18:42

about halfway, because it's an entire calendar year. So I've done Oceania, Asia, and North America. And whereas next after UK for you. So Madagascar, that would be the first leg of my African journey. And then I will be doing a few places in Europe and the Middle East, and then South America.

Steve Roe: 19:01

And there's gonna be a lot of listeners at home who are very jealous of what you're doing. If people want to follow your journey. Where can they find out more information about you online, the easiest

Nils Bouillard: 19:09

if you want regular updates is Instagram and Facebook. It's Nils Boulliard for both. But I also have a website, which is bigbatyear.com. And on there I publish reports of my trips, and then sometimes blog posts and other things. So I made one recently on the diversity of echolocation, that many people in Europe may not be aware of the invader, the classic calls of European bats, but there's a lot of crazy stuff going on elsewhere. And I thought we'd just show it and try to explain why this crazy stuff.

Steve Roe: 19:44

And finally, something we're asking our guests on BatChat is which three words would you use to describe the bat conservation movement? So Nils Bouillard, what are your three words?

Nils Bouillard: 19:54

I'd say it's challenging. It's definitely. It's also a bit unusual. It's a bit off the beaten track. But it's also definitely rewarding, because it challenging probably.

Steve Roe: 20:09

Great stuff. Nils, thank you very much. And since that interview, Nils has been continuing his big bat year adventure and is currently up to 319 species with four countries left to go. You can track Nils' progress on his website, bigbatyear.com or click the link in the show notes. And that's it for this edition. Next time we're taking a visit to Woodchester mansion, which is home to the world's longest running study of a mammal species by single person. I'm Steve Roe, and this has been BatChat.