S1E8 James has been involved in bat conservation since 2010 and has been involved in a variety of projects in that time including setting up Gib-Bats (the Gibraltar Bats Project) in 2013. In 2016 he was awarded the Bat Conservation Trust's Pete Guest Award for making an outstanding practical contribution to bat conservation. In this episode Steve joins James at a bat box check event just outside of Greenham Common in Newbury Berkshire before driving over to Bath to undertake some evening bat work!
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Steve Roe:
The unmistakable sound of a horseshoe bat and that particular bat was recorded at a research project just outside of bath in the southwest. Whilst visiting James Shipman. James has been involved in Bat Conservation since 2010. Chairing the Berkshire and South Buckinghamshire bat group, he established and continues to coordinate a project in Gibraltar called Gib bats, which aims to educate the public and local government about the country's about populations. And we'll be visiting that project in Bath later on. But I first caught up with James at a backbox tech event in early August. I'm Steve Roe. And this is BatChat.
James Shipman:
So we are currently in Newbury, and Berkshire, just outside Greenham Common for anyone who knows it. We are looking at bat boxes around here to establish where the pipistrelles are moving, and how long they're gonna be here for. And there's a few questions that I would like to ask over the next five to 10 years. And how many bat boxes if you got heavier the screen so between the two areas of the woodland, we have 40 boxes in total, give or take a few. And we've had quite a lot of recaptures over the years. But there's a few in particular that are quite nice to see, including bats that we're bringing to the juvenile. And we're now seeing thriving with many females over the year. So it's been quite exciting seeing things develop.
Steve Roe:
And you mentioned ringing there, just for people at home who don't know how that's wrong can just talk to us more about that.
James Shipman:
So in the UK, bets are rings slightly different to how birds will be. Whereas birds are ringed on their foot where it's a bit harder, they can use pliers. The bats are actually ringed on their forearm, which is part of their wing. And it's used with a kind of an aluminium style ring, which you close with your fingers rather than pliers itself. And then you just gently close it into it's just runs up and down the forearm itself.
Steve Roe:
And what style of boxes have we got here with a typical wooden ones? Are they the more concrete style boxes?
James Shipman:
Well, it's to be perfectly honest, when we started the project, we basically needed suspend some of the back group money, we just got a whole load of Srila boxes that was very in between the flat 1F boxes and small normal circle ones. And then we put some Kent boxes up as well just to see what we could get. And we had no no kind of thoughts on where we were placing them. We just put them in a variety of different spaces heights orientations, just to see what they were using. So in over the years, we'll hopefully see what they prefer, and if not, where they're going.
Steve Roe:
And why is it you're ringing the bats here?
James Shipman:
So the main reason we're bringing the picture out here is just to get an idea of how far the pictures were moving in a fairly large woodland. And what we found so far is that they seem to keep within a small area of bat boxes. And without spoiling too much in the future, we've got two areas of the woodland and we're hoping to bridge the two populations over the years and see if they can actually merge to a third population or keep them as two separate populations, but they may pop in and out. And what are the species of actually getting in the boxes here. So most people who are quite savvy with the bat world will probably be quite disappointed in knowing that it's just me surprised pipistrelles. But I'd like to go for the one that everyone thinks is boring and see if we can find something from there. But you often get some rarities that like a long haired bat. And I say rarity because they very seldom use the boxes here. And we've had one occasion where a group of natters turned up and ruined my data of a non continuous use of a box by a single male. And I haven't seen him since. So we do get few just pop up here and there. And what is it about that that you love so much. So I think the reason I like that so much is probably because we will never know everything about bats. So you can study them for all of your life and not know everything. I think certain animals, you know, you can study and find everything you may need to find out about them. But bats, there are certain things I don't think we will ever know. And that's what I quite like.
Steve Roe:
So tonight, we're headed over to bath to catch perhaps as part of a research projects, what's that projects all about?
James Shipman:
So the project that we're involved with tonight, mainly involves the studies and movements of the greater horseshoe bats in Bath and surrounding areas, both in hibernation and during swarming season. It's run under the licence of Fiona Matthews. And it's been done for many years. And it's starting to actually find some really useful data there, which is nice, because I think there's been some questions on why we've been doing this over the years. But now we're starting to see this kind of spiderweb pattern of where they're moving. It's becoming quite exciting, but as a lot of bad workers who knows me that they will know fully well that I think the most important aspect of some of this swarming some of these swarming surveys is the training element of it and the amount that you can get from just despite species diversity, as well as the handling and identification side of it. That's it's 1000 words really?
Steve Roe:
And just for people at home who might not know what autumn swarming, is he able to briefly sum that up,
Unknown:
Well as some of you who know, know bits about bats, you will know there was a swarming conference a couple of years ago. But those of you who don't know what swarming is, it depends on how you look at it, I think it was concluded that it's more likely to be that swarming is based on bats getting together in the autumn period to get together and mate. But other bat enthusiasts and bat specialists will probably tell you that, it could be that it's a bit of both this both for the mating, but also, the young that follow their mothers to the sites will then possibly know where to hibernate in the winter as well. I'm kind of realised we're just going along to the boxes aren't actually.
Steve Roe:
And you mentioned that you think it's important to do training for the next generation of battle workers. Why do you think the next generation about workers is so important? And why do we need that continuation into the future?
James Shipman:
I think it's really hard because to answer this question, it can sound quite rude towards older generations. But I think, like everything in the world, everything is changing quite drastically. But I think that it's always important in any area of science or sports, that you instal that passion in kids at a younger age. And if you can instal it at a younger age, they're the ones that will carry it forward. And I think with the way the world is going, plastic stuff like that, it's important that we kind of instil this interest in in the Environment and Conservation now really, how are we catching the bus tonight, so we're using a couple of methods to catch the bats tonight. So we're at a cave entrance, we're using a heart chap at one of the entrances, which allows the bats to to fly in with no distress, they drop into a small bag. And if they're that tired, and that bothered by being in there, they actually will sometimes go into a mild torpor hibernation state. And then we're using a net on another one. So we don't completely cover the entrance completely, we allow a bit of space above and below so the bats can move through. And we only catch it capture a small percentage of the bats in there. And by doing so, we can then identify what species we have. If we've got a keen eye, we can then split a couple of the species which are a bit harder to identify. And then with the netting itself is slightly more within the heart trap, you have to spend a bit more time entangling the back from the net, the bats can get a slightly more distressed from this method. But it's completely harmless if you know exactly what you're doing.
Steve Roe:
So a number of projects here in the UK, spanning a number of counties, but you've also been doing work over in Gibraltar, setting up a project that can you give us a brief history on on what that was, what that was and what it's all about now.
James Shipman:
So the the project in Gibraltar was originally I used to go there was a kid on holiday because you brought up quite a lot. And we used to go there because you could speak English, it was quite easy to have conversations and go out most of the area. And then as I got older I if I'm perfectly honest, I got a bit sick of politics within back groups, and decided to go and learn something a bit different and try and inspire some people in an area that may not have as much knowledge on bets in Europe. So in 2013, in collaboration with the museum, and the local ornithological Historical Society, we set up to give back and we found a new species on Halloween 2013 Which then kick started the project.
Steve Roe:
And what sort of species do you get over there that you don't get here?
Unknown:
So other than all of the species we have in the UK, you also get the Tadarida which is the European Freetail. But you get the greater noctule which some people may be aware actually eat night-flying passerines. We also get the Iberian Natterer's is basically the escalerai, Myotis escalerai and it's the shape of the foot which differs slightly to the Natterer's we have in the UK. We also get the Khul's pipistrelle over there, which is quite nice baton it's like very similar size to the diffusers, pipistrelle, but slightly meatier and a bit more aggressive, I would say. But I would say the most exciting that that that I've seen over there, which kickstarted does your best projects was the isabelline serotine. So the Eptesicus isabellinus and that's basically like our serotine in the UK. But it's this beautiful golden colour more golden than a noctule is. And where do you see that conservation going in the UK moving forwards?
James Shipman:
I think after doing various trips around Europe and seeing different countries, I think that bat conservation in the UK is always going to thrive. There seems to be more interest in bats in the UK than a lot of other industries. And I think, particularly with consultancy, what I've noticed is there's always a need for for back workers in consultancy. So I've always been interested in bats.
Steve Roe:
And finally, which three words would you use to describe the bat conservation movement?
James Shipman:
inspire the youth? I think if we can't get kids obsessed with bats, or get people obsessed with bats at a younger age, then what we find a lot harder when they get older.
Unknown:
Great stuff we'll catchup with you later tonight James
James Shipman:
Yeah, look forward to it Steve.
Steve Roe:
So it's now the early hours of the morning, and before sunset, we drove over to Bath and we've been located within this evening. And the guys beside me are just processing the last few bits of the evening, which we've caught in mist nets. You can probably hear a disgruntled lesser horseshoe in the background. The mist nets have been positioned over the entrances to some rift caves to catch the bats come into swarm. And so it's quite uneven underfoot moving between the processing station and the mist nets. And I'm just going to interrupt James here if he's got a second. So what have we caught tonight,
Unknown:
We've caught many bats. This evening, we had two teams set up on three caves. So on one of the sites we had lesser horseshoe bats, whiskered, Brandt's Daubenton's and a single male serotine at the other side of the two, two traps, we had whiskered, Brandt's, Natterer', greater horseshoe, lesser horseshoe, brown long-eared and potentially Alcathoe but we're yet to see. when cavers had just been in the system an hour before the survey. If you're interested in getting involved with your local bat group, now's the perfect time as they all start planning their events for the coming summer period. To find your local bat group head to the link in the show notes below. Local bat groups undertake all sorts of activities from winter hibernation surveys to public back talks and walks in the summer, caring for grounded or injured bats serving local nature reserves, keeping records of bats across their counties and managing various bat box schemes. Most bat groups have details of how to join on our website, which you can find from the link in the show notes. Next time. We're with Staffordshire Bat Group in the Churnet Valley on the hunt for small Myotis bats.