{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":7.26,"endTime":11.01,"body":"Hello, and welcome to"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":7.26,"endTime":11.01,"body":"this bonus episode of BatChat."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":11.31,"endTime":14.85,"body":"We're currently between series"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":11.31,"endTime":14.85,"body":"here on Bat Chat. But given"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":14.85,"endTime":18.36,"body":"recent events and the attention"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":14.85,"endTime":18.36,"body":"that bats are getting in the"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":18.36,"endTime":23.01,"body":"press, we decided a bonus"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":18.36,"endTime":23.01,"body":"episode was called for. Before"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":23.01,"endTime":26.52,"body":"we get started, we hope all of"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":23.01,"endTime":26.52,"body":"our listeners are staying safe"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":26.55,"endTime":29.58,"body":"and are enjoying seeing their"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":26.55,"endTime":29.58,"body":"local bats in the evening from"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":29.58,"endTime":35.19,"body":"the comfort of your own homes."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":29.58,"endTime":35.19,"body":"On the 23rd of March 2020, 10"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":35.19,"endTime":38.4,"body":"Downing Street broadcast a"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":35.19,"endTime":38.4,"body":"public announcement to the"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":38.4,"endTime":39.21,"body":"British public."},{"speaker":"Prime Minister Boris Johnson","startTime":39.81,"endTime":42.48,"body":"The"},{"speaker":"Prime Minister Boris Johnson","startTime":39.81,"endTime":42.48,"body":"time has now come for us all to"},{"speaker":"Prime Minister Boris Johnson","startTime":42.48,"endTime":46.47,"body":"do more. From this evening, I"},{"speaker":"Prime Minister Boris Johnson","startTime":42.48,"endTime":46.47,"body":"must give the British people a"},{"speaker":"Prime Minister Boris Johnson","startTime":46.47,"endTime":50.73,"body":"very simple instruction, you"},{"speaker":"Prime Minister Boris Johnson","startTime":46.47,"endTime":50.73,"body":"must stay at home."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":51.93,"endTime":54.63,"body":"That was the British"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":51.93,"endTime":54.63,"body":"Prime Minister Boris Johnson"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":54.66,"endTime":57.39,"body":"announcing the start of the"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":54.66,"endTime":57.39,"body":"government's stay at home"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":57.39,"endTime":61.77,"body":"policy, resulting in a change of"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":57.39,"endTime":61.77,"body":"daily life for us all that we"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":61.77,"endTime":65.76,"body":"could never have imagined just a"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":61.77,"endTime":65.76,"body":"few weeks ago. Now we are"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":65.76,"endTime":69.99,"body":"recording this on the 6th of"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":65.76,"endTime":69.99,"body":"May, 44 days into lockdown. And"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":69.99,"endTime":72.84,"body":"we're doing this over a"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":69.99,"endTime":72.84,"body":"conference call. So apologies"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":72.84,"endTime":75.48,"body":"that the sound quality isn't"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":72.84,"endTime":75.48,"body":"quite as you would expect from"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":75.48,"endTime":78.75,"body":"BatChat. But like everyone,"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":75.48,"endTime":78.75,"body":"we're doing the best we can with"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":78.75,"endTime":82.65,"body":"the situation. We'd like to"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":78.75,"endTime":82.65,"body":"point out that all facts are"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":82.65,"endTime":85.29,"body":"correct at the time of"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":82.65,"endTime":85.29,"body":"recording. But as you'll hear"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":85.29,"endTime":89.55,"body":"during this episode, this is a"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":85.29,"endTime":89.55,"body":"fast changing situation. We've"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":89.55,"endTime":92.67,"body":"got two guests joining us to"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":89.55,"endTime":92.67,"body":"tell us whether bats really have"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":92.67,"endTime":96.0,"body":"changed the world forever. And"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":92.67,"endTime":96.0,"body":"I'm going to let them introduce"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":96.0,"endTime":100.08,"body":"themselves and their background"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":96.0,"endTime":100.08,"body":"in bats and infectious diseases."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":101.94,"endTime":105.99,"body":"Tom August I did my"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":101.94,"endTime":105.99,"body":"PhD studying coronaviruses in"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":105.99,"endTime":112.26,"body":"bats in the UK from 2008 to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":105.99,"endTime":112.26,"body":"2012. And that was off the back"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":112.26,"endTime":117.06,"body":"of the first big outbreak of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":112.26,"endTime":117.06,"body":"Coronavirus, the SARS pandemic"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":117.06,"endTime":122.94,"body":"in 2002. I've for the past eight"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":117.06,"endTime":122.94,"body":"years been working at the UK"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":122.94,"endTime":126.18,"body":"Centre for Ecology and"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":122.94,"endTime":126.18,"body":"Hydrology, where I was a data"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":126.18,"endTime":128.61,"body":"scientist working with System"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":126.18,"endTime":128.61,"body":"Science Day to a new tech to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":128.61,"endTime":130.32,"body":"support conservation research in"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":128.61,"endTime":130.32,"body":"the UK."},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":131.02,"endTime":132.79,"body":"Hi, I'm Lisa"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":131.02,"endTime":132.79,"body":"Worledge, I'm head of"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":132.79,"endTime":136.15,"body":"conservation services at the Bat"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":132.79,"endTime":136.15,"body":"Conservation Trust, and part of"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":136.6,"endTime":142.21,"body":"my remit at BCT is lead on bats"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":136.6,"endTime":142.21,"body":"and diseases. So I spent a lot"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":142.21,"endTime":147.31,"body":"of time working on things like"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":142.21,"endTime":147.31,"body":"COVID-19 guidance and"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":147.31,"endTime":150.4,"body":"information for the general"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":147.31,"endTime":150.4,"body":"public about balancing diseases."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":151.24,"endTime":155.65,"body":"So two perfect guests"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":151.24,"endTime":155.65,"body":"to get listeners through the"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":155.68,"endTime":159.52,"body":"news and find out whether, you"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":155.68,"endTime":159.52,"body":"know, we've heard a lot in the"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":159.52,"endTime":164.35,"body":"press that bat's potentially are"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":159.52,"endTime":164.35,"body":"responsible for this. I mean, is"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":164.35,"endTime":166.84,"body":"there any truth in that it can"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":164.35,"endTime":166.84,"body":"one of you just introduce the"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":166.84,"endTime":170.2,"body":"situation as it stands at the"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":166.84,"endTime":170.2,"body":"moment and what we do and don't"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":170.2,"endTime":170.56,"body":"know."},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":171.52,"endTime":173.62,"body":"In terms of the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":171.52,"endTime":173.62,"body":"direct question, are bats"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":173.62,"endTime":178.12,"body":"responsible? That's a really"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":173.62,"endTime":178.12,"body":"simple answer. No. Humans are"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":178.12,"endTime":182.23,"body":"responsible for the COVID-19"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":178.12,"endTime":182.23,"body":"pandemic. Transmission is human"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":182.23,"endTime":186.07,"body":"to human and it's human"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":182.23,"endTime":186.07,"body":"activities that lead to the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":186.07,"endTime":191.56,"body":"spillover of a pathogen from"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":186.07,"endTime":191.56,"body":"wildlife into humans in the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":191.56,"endTime":194.14,"body":"first place. So no bats aren't"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":191.56,"endTime":194.14,"body":"responsible."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":195.58,"endTime":200.32,"body":"So Tom, where's this"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":195.58,"endTime":200.32,"body":"idea that bats were the original"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":200.32,"endTime":203.38,"body":"host for for the current strain"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":200.32,"endTime":203.38,"body":"of Coronavirus?"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":204.26,"endTime":208.34,"body":"So COVID-19 is a"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":204.26,"endTime":208.34,"body":"zoonotic disease. It's a disease"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":208.34,"endTime":213.17,"body":"that come as originated in wild"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":208.34,"endTime":213.17,"body":"animal hosts and has come into"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":213.17,"endTime":220.7,"body":"humans. It's a natural event"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":213.17,"endTime":220.7,"body":"that occurs. And typically, you"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":220.7,"endTime":224.09,"body":"know, that wouldn't spread very"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":220.7,"endTime":224.09,"body":"far. But given our new sort of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":224.12,"endTime":227.48,"body":"global society with air travel,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":224.12,"endTime":227.48,"body":"and such these sorts of things"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":227.48,"endTime":232.31,"body":"can become pandemics much more"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":227.48,"endTime":232.31,"body":"quickly, which is why we're"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":232.31,"endTime":236.6,"body":"hearing more about them. More"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":232.31,"endTime":236.6,"body":"recently. Now, the SARS"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":237.05,"endTime":242.48,"body":"pandemic, which was in started"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":237.05,"endTime":242.48,"body":"in 2002 went into 2003. Infected"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":242.48,"endTime":247.49,"body":"Around 8000 people killed about"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":242.48,"endTime":247.49,"body":"800 people that we worked out"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":247.52,"endTime":253.76,"body":"originated the original virus"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":247.52,"endTime":253.76,"body":"was from a wild bat host. The"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":254.15,"endTime":258.62,"body":"current virus or COVID-19 is"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":254.15,"endTime":258.62,"body":"caused by a different virus,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":258.71,"endTime":263.72,"body":"SARS Cov-2, which is related to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":258.71,"endTime":263.72,"body":"the virus, of course, the SARS"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":263.72,"endTime":270.86,"body":"pandemic. And it's reasonable to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":263.72,"endTime":270.86,"body":"assume that the original virus"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":271.85,"endTime":276.83,"body":"the original virus for this"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":271.85,"endTime":276.83,"body":"pandemic, also probably came"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":276.83,"endTime":278.69,"body":"from a wild bat populations."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":280.37,"endTime":283.49,"body":"So why are we so"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":280.37,"endTime":283.49,"body":"unsure? What's the missing link"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":283.49,"endTime":287.36,"body":"that we need in order to find"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":283.49,"endTime":287.36,"body":"out whether, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":287.36,"endTime":290.66,"body":"likely that that has come from"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":287.36,"endTime":290.66,"body":"from a from a bat species?"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":291.05,"endTime":293.69,"body":"I think the question"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":291.05,"endTime":293.69,"body":"we're trying to answer at the"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":293.69,"endTime":299.27,"body":"moment is which bat species and"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":293.69,"endTime":299.27,"body":"where did it originate? So I"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":299.27,"endTime":303.98,"body":"think the most closely related"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":299.27,"endTime":303.98,"body":"virus that we have identified as"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":304.55,"endTime":310.58,"body":"94%, from Latin China, to put"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":304.55,"endTime":310.58,"body":"that in context, different"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":310.58,"endTime":313.7,"body":"patients who have COVID The"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":310.58,"endTime":313.7,"body":"virus that they hosted like"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":313.7,"endTime":318.47,"body":"99.9%, the same SARS, this"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":313.7,"endTime":318.47,"body":"previous pandemic, that's about"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":318.5,"endTime":322.52,"body":"80% the same. MERS, which is"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":318.5,"endTime":322.52,"body":"another Coronavirus. It's about"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":322.55,"endTime":327.17,"body":"50%. The same, all of those"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":322.55,"endTime":327.17,"body":"viruses are in the same group"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":327.2,"endTime":331.85,"body":"subgroup of Coronavirus is"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":327.2,"endTime":331.85,"body":"called Beta coronaviruses. So"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":331.85,"endTime":334.61,"body":"that gives you some sort of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":331.85,"endTime":334.61,"body":"flavour of, of how they can say"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":334.61,"endTime":338.6,"body":"that 94% of that most closely"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":334.61,"endTime":338.6,"body":"related, but it's pretty close."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":339.56,"endTime":342.08,"body":"But it's not, it's not the one,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":339.56,"endTime":342.08,"body":"it's not the one we're looking"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":342.08,"endTime":345.89,"body":"for. And it's important to know"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":342.08,"endTime":345.89,"body":"where it came from, that we can"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":345.89,"endTime":348.23,"body":"help to prevent some spillover"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":345.89,"endTime":348.23,"body":"events in the future."},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":349.05,"endTime":350.55,"body":"I was just gonna"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":349.05,"endTime":350.55,"body":"say I think it is worth"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":350.55,"endTime":354.69,"body":"emphasising that it's not the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":350.55,"endTime":354.69,"body":"same. But to add to what Tom"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":354.69,"endTime":359.79,"body":"said, because we've had a lot of"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":354.69,"endTime":359.79,"body":"people saying and using the fact"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":359.79,"endTime":363.45,"body":"that this similar virus has been"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":359.79,"endTime":363.45,"body":"found in the species of bat as"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":363.45,"endTime":366.51,"body":"going Yeah, therefore, it's"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":363.45,"endTime":366.51,"body":"definitely bad. But actually,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":366.54,"endTime":371.73,"body":"even if a virus that ultimately"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":366.54,"endTime":371.73,"body":"led to SARS cov two originated"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":371.73,"endTime":377.4,"body":"in bats, SARS Cov-2 itself has"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":371.73,"endTime":377.4,"body":"not been isolated from any"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":377.4,"endTime":381.66,"body":"species, other than humans, or"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":377.4,"endTime":381.66,"body":"all cases related to humans or"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":381.66,"endTime":387.18,"body":"from domestic animals. And that"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":381.66,"endTime":387.18,"body":"genetic difference is"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":387.18,"endTime":391.35,"body":"significant. humans and other"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":387.18,"endTime":391.35,"body":"primates chimpanzees, for"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":391.35,"endTime":397.26,"body":"example, are 96%, common in 96%"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":391.35,"endTime":397.26,"body":"of the genome in common, but we"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":397.26,"endTime":400.38,"body":"are not the same species. So"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":397.26,"endTime":400.38,"body":"whilst there might have been an"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":400.41,"endTime":406.05,"body":"origin in bats, it's very likely"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":400.41,"endTime":406.05,"body":"that the virus that is now"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":406.05,"endTime":409.53,"body":"causing the pandemic in humans"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":406.05,"endTime":409.53,"body":"has come through another species"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":409.68,"endTime":412.92,"body":"or has mutated within humans."},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":409.68,"endTime":412.92,"body":"And I think it's just important"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":412.92,"endTime":416.46,"body":"to understand that in terms of"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":412.92,"endTime":416.46,"body":"the sort of culture around"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":416.46,"endTime":417.39,"body":"blaming bats."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":418.02,"endTime":420.36,"body":"so just to just to"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":418.02,"endTime":420.36,"body":"simplify that a little bit. So"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":420.36,"endTime":424.74,"body":"we're saying that humans and"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":420.36,"endTime":424.74,"body":"chimpanzees share 90% 96% of"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":424.74,"endTime":427.62,"body":"their genome, or there abouts."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":424.74,"endTime":427.62,"body":"So clearly, we're not the same"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":427.62,"endTime":432.0,"body":"species. So we're saying that"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":427.62,"endTime":432.0,"body":"the original, you know,"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":432.3,"endTime":435.48,"body":"Coronavirus, that was in bats is"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":432.3,"endTime":435.48,"body":"clearly not the same as the one"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":435.51,"endTime":438.54,"body":"of the human strains, but it's"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":435.51,"endTime":438.54,"body":"mutated at least once, if not"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":438.57,"endTime":440.7,"body":"many more times than that in"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":438.57,"endTime":440.7,"body":"that interim period."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":442.05,"endTime":444.54,"body":"Yes. That's fair to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":442.05,"endTime":444.54,"body":"say. Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":446.22,"endTime":450.36,"body":"So I mean, you know,"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":446.22,"endTime":450.36,"body":"the, that that particular bat"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":450.36,"endTime":454.92,"body":"species that that Tom talked"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":450.36,"endTime":454.92,"body":"about, that had that bat Cov"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":454.95,"endTime":459.69,"body":"RATG-13 is Rhinolophus affinis,"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":454.95,"endTime":459.69,"body":"which its common name is the"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":459.69,"endTime":461.88,"body":"intermediate horseshoe bat,"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":459.69,"endTime":461.88,"body":"which is really unhelpful"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":461.88,"endTime":464.4,"body":"because there's an Australian"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":461.88,"endTime":464.4,"body":"bat species also called the"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":464.4,"endTime":465.75,"body":"intermediate horseshoe bat. I"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":464.4,"endTime":465.75,"body":"mean, you know, that species was"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":465.75,"endTime":466.86,"body":"first described in 1823. There"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":465.75,"endTime":466.86,"body":"are six subspecies of that"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":467.04,"endTime":473.94,"body":"particular horseshoe bat, and"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":467.04,"endTime":473.94,"body":"it's widespread, widespread"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":474.63,"endTime":477.93,"body":"across southern and Southeast"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":474.63,"endTime":477.93,"body":"Asia. I mean, Tom, what what"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":477.99,"endTime":480.93,"body":"what do we know about"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":477.99,"endTime":480.93,"body":"Coronavirus in bats to date?"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":480.0,"endTime":484.41,"body":"We actually know a"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":480.0,"endTime":484.41,"body":"fair amount because of there was"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":484.41,"endTime":489.42,"body":"no SARS pandemic back in 2002."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":484.41,"endTime":489.42,"body":"That formed a whole bunch of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":489.42,"endTime":493.62,"body":"research to try and figure out"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":489.42,"endTime":493.62,"body":"okay, where are these"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":493.62,"endTime":496.59,"body":"coronaviruses? Are there lots of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":493.62,"endTime":496.59,"body":"them? Are they do we need to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":496.62,"endTime":499.62,"body":"worry about them? So quite a lot"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":496.62,"endTime":499.62,"body":"of research groups all over the"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":499.62,"endTime":504.6,"body":"world started looking for them."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":499.62,"endTime":504.6,"body":"And including myself as part of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":504.6,"endTime":509.04,"body":"my PhD. What we found was that"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":504.6,"endTime":509.04,"body":"actually quite similar to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":509.04,"endTime":512.49,"body":"humans, quite a lot of bats have"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":509.04,"endTime":512.49,"body":"coronaviruses humans have lots"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":512.49,"endTime":515.19,"body":"of credit rights as they cause"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":512.49,"endTime":515.19,"body":"the common cold. So it's perhaps"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":515.19,"endTime":518.64,"body":"not a surprise that yeah, bats"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":515.19,"endTime":518.64,"body":"around the world had grown"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":518.64,"endTime":522.57,"body":"viruses. They were quite"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":518.64,"endTime":522.57,"body":"diverse, and the bats didn't"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":522.57,"endTime":525.66,"body":"really seem to get that sick"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":522.57,"endTime":525.66,"body":"form. And so a conclusion from"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":525.66,"endTime":529.32,"body":"my research was that yeah, there"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":525.66,"endTime":529.32,"body":"was some coronaviruses and bats"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":529.32,"endTime":533.31,"body":"in UK, but no, they didn't pose"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":529.32,"endTime":533.31,"body":"any risk to humans. And that was"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":533.31,"endTime":535.77,"body":"sort of the sort of the general"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":533.31,"endTime":535.77,"body":"the general picture that that"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":535.77,"endTime":539.7,"body":"emerged from that sort of push"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":535.77,"endTime":539.7,"body":"for research after the original"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":539.7,"endTime":540.45,"body":"SARS pandemic."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":541.77,"endTime":544.17,"body":"So what's changed?"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":541.77,"endTime":544.17,"body":"Now you you said they didn't"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":544.2,"endTime":547.02,"body":"necessarily pose a threat what"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":544.2,"endTime":547.02,"body":"what is it that's changed to"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":547.02,"endTime":550.08,"body":"allow the spillover into humans."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":550.65,"endTime":555.99,"body":"So spill overs"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":550.65,"endTime":555.99,"body":"occur, or can can be driven by"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":556.02,"endTime":561.21,"body":"human activity. So for a"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":556.02,"endTime":561.21,"body":"spillover to occur, you need the"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":561.21,"endTime":564.48,"body":"disease in the wild animal, and"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":561.21,"endTime":564.48,"body":"you need contact between that"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":564.48,"endTime":569.64,"body":"wild animal and usually an"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":564.48,"endTime":569.64,"body":"intermediate host. So because"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":569.67,"endTime":573.6,"body":"humans don't have a huge amount"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":569.67,"endTime":573.6,"body":"of contact with wild animals,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":574.59,"endTime":579.03,"body":"wild animals have actually more"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":574.59,"endTime":579.03,"body":"contact with Perry domestic"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":579.03,"endTime":582.69,"body":"animals, so animals that live"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":579.03,"endTime":582.69,"body":"around humans like cattle or"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":582.69,"endTime":587.64,"body":"pets, or animals in markets and"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":582.69,"endTime":587.64,"body":"these sorts of things. So"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":587.67,"endTime":590.79,"body":"zoonosis tend to come through"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":587.67,"endTime":590.79,"body":"those roots. So that happened"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":590.79,"endTime":594.81,"body":"with SARS that's happened with"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":590.79,"endTime":594.81,"body":"other previous zoonotic"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":595.02,"endTime":601.65,"body":"spillover events. So these sorts"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":595.02,"endTime":601.65,"body":"of in environments where we have"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":601.65,"endTime":606.09,"body":"close contact between wildlife"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":601.65,"endTime":606.09,"body":"and prey domestic animals. Like"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":606.12,"endTime":608.7,"body":"the sort of wet markets that"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":606.12,"endTime":608.7,"body":"we've seen in the news that"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":608.7,"endTime":613.56,"body":"exists in China, these sorts of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":608.7,"endTime":613.56,"body":"environments create that the"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":613.56,"endTime":617.82,"body":"conditions favourable for"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":613.56,"endTime":617.82,"body":"zoonotic transmission. The"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":617.82,"endTime":621.18,"body":"reason I said that that wasn't"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":617.82,"endTime":621.18,"body":"really a risk in in UK, we don't"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":621.18,"endTime":624.42,"body":"really have those sorts of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":621.18,"endTime":624.42,"body":"environments in the UK, that"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":624.42,"endTime":627.72,"body":"have big content between"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":624.42,"endTime":627.72,"body":"wildlife and these sorts of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":627.72,"endTime":631.17,"body":"animals. So there's very low"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":627.72,"endTime":631.17,"body":"risk of zoonotic transmission."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":632.16,"endTime":634.92,"body":"That also gives us some insight"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":632.16,"endTime":634.92,"body":"as to how we might be able to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":634.92,"endTime":638.16,"body":"reduce the risk of these sorts"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":634.92,"endTime":638.16,"body":"of zoonotic spillover events in"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":638.16,"endTime":644.04,"body":"the future by reducing these"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":638.16,"endTime":644.04,"body":"sorts of opportunities for"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":644.04,"endTime":647.88,"body":"transmission, but also trying to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":644.04,"endTime":647.88,"body":"reduce the prevalence of these"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":647.88,"endTime":651.39,"body":"diseases in the wild has"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":647.88,"endTime":651.39,"body":"populations. And I'm sure we'll"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":651.39,"endTime":655.23,"body":"come back to how thing human"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":651.39,"endTime":655.23,"body":"activity impacts on those sorts"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":655.23,"endTime":656.91,"body":"of levels in the wildlife"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":655.23,"endTime":656.91,"body":"populations."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":658.13,"endTime":660.92,"body":"So at least, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":658.13,"endTime":660.92,"body":"Tom said the UK doesn't have"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":660.92,"endTime":663.5,"body":"those sorts of environments, I"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":660.92,"endTime":663.5,"body":"guess, I guess now is the time"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":663.5,"endTime":666.86,"body":"to talk about wet markets. We've"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":663.5,"endTime":666.86,"body":"been hearing about wet markets,"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":666.86,"endTime":669.44,"body":"as it's thought that this was"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":666.86,"endTime":669.44,"body":"the possibility of the cause of"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":669.44,"endTime":672.53,"body":"the spillover. Lisa, can you"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":669.44,"endTime":672.53,"body":"just describe a wetter market"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":672.53,"endTime":675.14,"body":"and why there's such a high risk"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":672.53,"endTime":675.14,"body":"environment for for zoonotic"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":675.14,"endTime":675.38,"body":"spillover?"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":677.58,"endTime":681.33,"body":"Yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":677.58,"endTime":681.33,"body":"I've never visited one and I"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":681.33,"endTime":685.5,"body":"will probably move away from the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":681.33,"endTime":685.5,"body":"term wet market. That term"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":685.5,"endTime":689.4,"body":"actually, they're pretty much"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":685.5,"endTime":689.4,"body":"like local supermarkets. In a"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":689.4,"endTime":693.42,"body":"way. I think here, what we're"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":689.4,"endTime":693.42,"body":"talking about specifically, is"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":693.42,"endTime":697.74,"body":"the trade in live wildlife. And"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":693.42,"endTime":697.74,"body":"I think it's important to"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":697.92,"endTime":700.8,"body":"differentiate between the sort"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":697.92,"endTime":700.8,"body":"of other things that are being"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":700.8,"endTime":705.57,"body":"sold at certain markets and this"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":700.8,"endTime":705.57,"body":"live wildlife trade. So there is"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":705.6,"endTime":710.01,"body":"this, this situation exactly as"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":705.6,"endTime":710.01,"body":"Tom describes, and one of the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":710.01,"endTime":713.52,"body":"problems that we've seen, and"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":710.01,"endTime":713.52,"body":"one of the routes that spillover"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":713.52,"endTime":717.42,"body":"events, can take places where"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":713.52,"endTime":717.42,"body":"you're bringing wildlife, into"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":717.42,"endTime":721.53,"body":"contact with other wildlife or"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":717.42,"endTime":721.53,"body":"with other domestic animals,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":721.92,"endTime":724.56,"body":"where there wouldn't ordinarily"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":721.92,"endTime":724.56,"body":"be that contact. And this is"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":724.56,"endTime":727.77,"body":"what's exactly what's happening"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":724.56,"endTime":727.77,"body":"at ly wildlife markets. So"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":727.77,"endTime":731.88,"body":"you've got animals that are that"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":727.77,"endTime":731.88,"body":"are hunted, that are brought"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":731.88,"endTime":735.75,"body":"together in very cramped"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":731.88,"endTime":735.75,"body":"conditions, very unhygienic"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":735.75,"endTime":739.74,"body":"conditions, lots of species in"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":735.75,"endTime":739.74,"body":"small space that wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":739.77,"endTime":742.68,"body":"otherwise be interacting. And"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":739.77,"endTime":742.68,"body":"when I say it's also something"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":742.68,"endTime":746.61,"body":"small cages, where there can be"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":742.68,"endTime":746.61,"body":"urine and faeces, you know,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":746.61,"endTime":751.14,"body":"spreading between different"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":746.61,"endTime":751.14,"body":"species. And so you can see that"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":751.14,"endTime":755.37,"body":"this is, if you like, a sort of"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":751.14,"endTime":755.37,"body":"crucible of, of viral"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":756.03,"endTime":759.12,"body":"recombinational, the potential"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":756.03,"endTime":759.12,"body":"the potential for that, and"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":759.12,"endTime":762.6,"body":"that's the issue with these live"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":759.12,"endTime":762.6,"body":"wildlife markets."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":764.28,"endTime":766.11,"body":"So what are the"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":764.28,"endTime":766.11,"body":"theories have been suggested?"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":766.11,"endTime":767.19,"body":"And why?"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":768.89,"endTime":772.4,"body":"For the origin?"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":768.89,"endTime":772.4,"body":"Yeah, so So some of the some of"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":772.4,"endTime":777.35,"body":"the early cases in China weren't"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":772.4,"endTime":777.35,"body":"actually linked to the Wuhan"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":777.35,"endTime":782.54,"body":"market. So although that's a"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":777.35,"endTime":782.54,"body":"possible route, it absolutely"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":782.54,"endTime":785.63,"body":"hasn't been confirmed as the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":782.54,"endTime":785.63,"body":"route. And there are, there are"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":785.63,"endTime":791.66,"body":"other potential. So for example,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":785.63,"endTime":791.66,"body":"where agriculture has moved into"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":791.84,"endTime":797.63,"body":"environments that were so"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":791.84,"endTime":797.63,"body":"forested areas, so anyone who's"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":797.63,"endTime":801.32,"body":"seen and I think an awful lot of"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":797.63,"endTime":801.32,"body":"people during lockdown, have"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":801.32,"endTime":804.95,"body":"watched Contagion the film"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":801.32,"endTime":804.95,"body":"Contagion, if you don't want to"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":804.95,"endTime":808.34,"body":"watch the whole thing, bring it"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":804.95,"endTime":808.34,"body":"up on Netflix, or wherever, and"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":808.34,"endTime":813.08,"body":"just go to the end scenes. And"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":808.34,"endTime":813.08,"body":"those end scenes in that movie"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":813.08,"endTime":815.69,"body":"highlight one of the possible"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":813.08,"endTime":815.69,"body":"routes of spillover really"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":815.69,"endTime":820.16,"body":"beautifully. It shows some"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":815.69,"endTime":820.16,"body":"virgin forest that's basically"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":820.16,"endTime":825.05,"body":"getting chopped down, you have a"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":820.16,"endTime":825.05,"body":"huge sort of open barn structure"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":825.05,"endTime":830.0,"body":"going up on that Forest for pig"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":825.05,"endTime":830.0,"body":"farming. And you then see that's"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":830.0,"endTime":833.18,"body":"coming in roosting bats that,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":830.0,"endTime":833.18,"body":"you know, would otherwise be"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":833.18,"endTime":837.41,"body":"resting in the forest roosting"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":833.18,"endTime":837.41,"body":"above those pigs, and they're"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":837.41,"endTime":841.28,"body":"feeding and the feeding remains"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":837.41,"endTime":841.28,"body":"drop, and their urine drops and"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":841.28,"endTime":846.17,"body":"their faeces drop. And this"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":841.28,"endTime":846.17,"body":"gives you a sort of route for"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":846.2,"endTime":849.41,"body":"for spillover, because, you"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":846.2,"endTime":849.41,"body":"know, just just being in the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":849.41,"endTime":852.74,"body":"presence of a bat isn't going to"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":849.41,"endTime":852.74,"body":"lead to a spillover event. As"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":852.74,"endTime":855.23,"body":"Tom has already suggested, you"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":852.74,"endTime":855.23,"body":"need all of these steps or"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":855.23,"endTime":859.64,"body":"barriers to these events. And"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":855.23,"endTime":859.64,"body":"what's happening in the last, I"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":859.64,"endTime":863.93,"body":"don't know, 60/70 years, we've"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":859.64,"endTime":863.93,"body":"seen the number of emerging"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":863.93,"endTime":868.25,"body":"infectious diseases with"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":863.93,"endTime":868.25,"body":"zoonotic so wild animal origins"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":868.4,"endTime":873.35,"body":"increasing. And we've seen that"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":868.4,"endTime":873.35,"body":"increasing because of human"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":873.38,"endTime":877.43,"body":"actions on our environment. And"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":873.38,"endTime":877.43,"body":"what we're doing is we're"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":877.43,"endTime":880.67,"body":"basically reducing these"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":877.43,"endTime":880.67,"body":"barriers. So we're changing the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":880.67,"endTime":886.1,"body":"distributions of potential"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":880.67,"endTime":886.1,"body":"hosts. We're changing the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":886.1,"endTime":893.63,"body":"exposure of US and other animals"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":886.1,"endTime":893.63,"body":"to this sort of these reservoirs"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":893.63,"endTime":897.41,"body":"if you like. And all of that"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":893.63,"endTime":897.41,"body":"means those barriers are coming"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":897.41,"endTime":900.98,"body":"down and that's leading to more"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":897.41,"endTime":900.98,"body":"info To the infectious diseases,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":900.98,"endTime":904.76,"body":"so, you know, human activities"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":900.98,"endTime":904.76,"body":"absolutely at the heart of this"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":905.21,"endTime":906.95,"body":"Very nicely answering"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":905.21,"endTime":906.95,"body":"that question there. Thank you."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":907.7,"endTime":914.66,"body":"So literally my next question. I"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":907.7,"endTime":914.66,"body":"mean, why have so many different"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":914.69,"endTime":917.12,"body":"intermediate hosts have been"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":914.69,"endTime":917.12,"body":"suggested? And we talked about"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":917.12,"endTime":921.11,"body":"that idea that the virus has"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":917.12,"endTime":921.11,"body":"mutated at least once and"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":921.35,"endTime":923.84,"body":"there's been all sorts of other"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":921.35,"endTime":923.84,"body":"animals suggested has been an"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":923.84,"endTime":925.97,"body":"intermediate hosts, which we"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":923.84,"endTime":925.97,"body":"don't yet know anything from"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":925.97,"endTime":930.17,"body":"pangolins to servers, to monkeys"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":925.97,"endTime":930.17,"body":"to farm animals. Why have so"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":930.17,"endTime":932.99,"body":"many different intermediate"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":930.17,"endTime":932.99,"body":"animals been suggested?"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":933.65,"endTime":935.57,"body":"Because because we"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":933.65,"endTime":935.57,"body":"don't know what the intermediate"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":936.02,"endTime":941.63,"body":"animal is reportedly. I think"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":936.02,"endTime":941.63,"body":"we're still hunting for it. In"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":941.63,"endTime":945.65,"body":"the in the SARS outbreak, it was"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":941.63,"endTime":945.65,"body":"civets thought to be civets."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":946.73,"endTime":948.56,"body":"This outbreak, I don't think we"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":946.73,"endTime":948.56,"body":"know."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":949.35,"endTime":951.63,"body":"So, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":949.35,"endTime":951.63,"body":"presumably there are scientists"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":951.63,"endTime":954.12,"body":"around the world trying to pin"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":951.63,"endTime":954.12,"body":"that down to help us understand"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":954.12,"endTime":956.7,"body":"how they might be. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":954.12,"endTime":956.7,"body":"presumably unknown, what that"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":956.7,"endTime":959.91,"body":"intermediate host is gives us an"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":956.7,"endTime":959.91,"body":"idea of more clues to a"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":959.97,"endTime":963.75,"body":"potential vaccine, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":959.97,"endTime":963.75,"body":"mean, what are scientists doing"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":963.75,"endTime":967.2,"body":"to try and find that"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":963.75,"endTime":967.2,"body":"intermediate host."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":968.55,"endTime":971.91,"body":"So the intermediate"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":968.55,"endTime":971.91,"body":"host will help us to understand"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":972.12,"endTime":977.1,"body":"how this spillover event"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":972.12,"endTime":977.1,"body":"occurred, and how it got spread"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":977.1,"endTime":979.98,"body":"to humans. And that's going to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":977.1,"endTime":979.98,"body":"help us to figure out how we"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":979.98,"endTime":983.55,"body":"prevent this sort of thing"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":979.98,"endTime":983.55,"body":"happening again. It's not going"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":983.55,"endTime":986.07,"body":"to help with it's not gonna help"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":983.55,"endTime":986.07,"body":"with a vaccine. But it will help"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":986.07,"endTime":990.33,"body":"us to identify that that route,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":986.07,"endTime":990.33,"body":"I think it's important to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":990.36,"endTime":996.72,"body":"differentiate, as Lisa has"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":990.36,"endTime":996.72,"body":"already said, the pandemic is is"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":996.75,"endTime":1002.42,"body":"huge human and, and the way we"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":996.75,"endTime":1002.42,"body":"live our lives, in modern"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1002.42,"endTime":1006.59,"body":"society, travelling all over the"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1002.42,"endTime":1006.59,"body":"world, living in dense urban"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1006.62,"endTime":1009.23,"body":"settings, all these sorts of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1006.62,"endTime":1009.23,"body":"things have contributed to that."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1011.24,"endTime":1015.65,"body":"Hunting down the original host,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1011.24,"endTime":1015.65,"body":"an intermediate host, they don't"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1015.65,"endTime":1018.92,"body":"really help us in the moment in"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1015.65,"endTime":1018.92,"body":"tackling this pandemic, but they"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1018.92,"endTime":1022.97,"body":"help us understand what how it"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1018.92,"endTime":1022.97,"body":"started, and therefore allows us"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1022.97,"endTime":1027.11,"body":"to prepare and prevent these"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1022.97,"endTime":1027.11,"body":"sorts of things happening again"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1027.11,"endTime":1027.68,"body":"in the future."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1029.51,"endTime":1032.66,"body":"And I mean, basically"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1029.51,"endTime":1032.66,"body":"have come out and said that, you"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1032.66,"endTime":1035.45,"body":"know, they would like to see wet"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1032.66,"endTime":1035.45,"body":"markets banned, or at least to"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1035.45,"endTime":1039.35,"body":"trade in live animals banned."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1035.45,"endTime":1039.35,"body":"There's been speculation that"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1039.35,"endTime":1042.23,"body":"potentially that might not work,"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1039.35,"endTime":1042.23,"body":"it might result in them being"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1042.77,"endTime":1045.47,"body":"driven underground, which is"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1042.77,"endTime":1045.47,"body":"more hard to regulate. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1045.47,"endTime":1047.96,"body":"Lisa, would it not be better to"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1045.47,"endTime":1047.96,"body":"introduce regulations for such"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1047.96,"endTime":1050.6,"body":"things? What's What's the"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1047.96,"endTime":1050.6,"body":"reasoning behind sending out an"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1050.6,"endTime":1053.24,"body":"outright ban in the trade of of"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1050.6,"endTime":1053.24,"body":"live animals?"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1053.0,"endTime":1057.5,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1053.0,"endTime":1057.5,"body":"regulation can be can be really"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1057.5,"endTime":1065.3,"body":"difficult. I think the the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1057.5,"endTime":1065.3,"body":"issues, the although it's not"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1065.33,"endTime":1069.74,"body":"what's being asked for is a"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1065.33,"endTime":1069.74,"body":"little bit more complex than a"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1069.74,"endTime":1073.55,"body":"straight, straightforward ban."},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1069.74,"endTime":1073.55,"body":"But the conditions and a lot of"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1073.55,"endTime":1080.3,"body":"live animal markets are really"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1073.55,"endTime":1080.3,"body":"cruel. They do facilitate the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1080.3,"endTime":1083.69,"body":"spread of viruses, the bringing"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1080.3,"endTime":1083.69,"body":"together of these of these"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1083.69,"endTime":1090.05,"body":"stressed animals. And also, they"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1083.69,"endTime":1090.05,"body":"threaten a whole host of"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1090.05,"endTime":1093.59,"body":"wildlife species. So it's"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1090.05,"endTime":1093.59,"body":"important to understand this in"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1093.68,"endTime":1098.81,"body":"in that context as well. So yes,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1093.68,"endTime":1098.81,"body":"it is a very complex, it is a"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1098.81,"endTime":1103.07,"body":"very complex issue. Sometimes"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1098.81,"endTime":1103.07,"body":"you need to be calling for for"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1103.07,"endTime":1109.25,"body":"more to achieve something. And"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1103.07,"endTime":1109.25,"body":"what's really clear is we cannot"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1109.28,"endTime":1117.77,"body":"carry on as a Is it the original"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1109.28,"endTime":1117.77,"body":"sort of SARS outbreak that Tom"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1117.77,"endTime":1122.78,"body":"was talking about back in 2002,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1117.77,"endTime":1122.78,"body":"was associated with with a"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1122.78,"endTime":1128.15,"body":"market that's we think how the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1122.78,"endTime":1128.15,"body":"virus got into palm civets. Not"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1128.15,"endTime":1134.21,"body":"all outbreaks associated with"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1128.15,"endTime":1134.21,"body":"this situation, and indeed, the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1134.21,"endTime":1137.81,"body":"MERS Coronavirus. The Middle"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1134.21,"endTime":1137.81,"body":"Eastern Respiratory Syndrome"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1138.02,"endTime":1142.07,"body":"actually isn't connected with"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1138.02,"endTime":1142.07,"body":"bats, it's camels. It's not it's"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1142.07,"endTime":1147.77,"body":"not a animal market in the sense"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1142.07,"endTime":1147.77,"body":"of food that's for for different"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1147.77,"endTime":1150.29,"body":"purposes. So, you know, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1147.77,"endTime":1150.29,"body":"saying this is the be all and"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1150.29,"endTime":1153.71,"body":"end all. But it's really"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1150.29,"endTime":1153.71,"body":"important that, you know, these"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1153.71,"endTime":1158.3,"body":"markets do offer this potential"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1153.71,"endTime":1158.3,"body":"and that needs to be addressed."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1159.41,"endTime":1161.87,"body":"And, and Tom come"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1159.41,"endTime":1161.87,"body":"back to teach us anything about"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1161.87,"endTime":1164.75,"body":"understanding these types of"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1161.87,"endTime":1164.75,"body":"diseases in more detail."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1165.92,"endTime":1169.13,"body":"Yeah, interestingly,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1165.92,"endTime":1169.13,"body":"I was revisiting my PhD thesis,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1169.52,"endTime":1172.55,"body":"which seems really relevant now."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1169.52,"endTime":1172.55,"body":"And her perhaps was less"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1172.55,"endTime":1175.7,"body":"relevant at the time that I"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1172.55,"endTime":1175.7,"body":"published it. And there's a bit"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1175.7,"endTime":1180.44,"body":"in there where we looked at how"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1175.7,"endTime":1180.44,"body":"the population structure of bats"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1180.5,"endTime":1183.41,"body":"affected their disease"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1180.5,"endTime":1183.41,"body":"prevalence, and I was"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1183.41,"endTime":1185.45,"body":"particularly interested in"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1183.41,"endTime":1185.45,"body":"Coronavirus because it was"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1185.45,"endTime":1187.97,"body":"relevant to the start of the"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1185.45,"endTime":1187.97,"body":"pandemic which recently"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1187.97,"endTime":1191.66,"body":"occurred, but I was also looking"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1187.97,"endTime":1191.66,"body":"at Ecto parasites like mites and"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1191.66,"endTime":1194.48,"body":"ticks because they also do"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1191.66,"endTime":1194.48,"body":"actually transmitted disease. I"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1194.48,"endTime":1198.41,"body":"thought they could be a model"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1194.48,"endTime":1198.41,"body":"for viruses. What I found in"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1198.44,"endTime":1201.89,"body":"Daubenton's bats, they went has"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1198.44,"endTime":1201.89,"body":"been quite well known for in"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1201.92,"endTime":1205.4,"body":"during the maternity period,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1201.92,"endTime":1205.4,"body":"when the female is giving birth."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1205.82,"endTime":1209.3,"body":"The male dominance pants, the"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1205.82,"endTime":1209.3,"body":"adult male dominance pants form"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1209.3,"endTime":1212.27,"body":"bachelor wrists, which are"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1209.3,"endTime":1212.27,"body":"separate, which are physically"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1212.27,"endTime":1215.0,"body":"separated from the maternity"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1212.27,"endTime":1215.0,"body":"groups. And one of the"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1215.0,"endTime":1218.33,"body":"hypotheses for why this was"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1215.0,"endTime":1218.33,"body":"happening was for disease"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1218.33,"endTime":1222.05,"body":"avoidance, the theory being that"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1218.33,"endTime":1222.05,"body":"juvenile bats that the newborn"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1222.05,"endTime":1226.1,"body":"bats are quite susceptible to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1222.05,"endTime":1226.1,"body":"disease. And so the disease"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1226.1,"endTime":1228.41,"body":"prevalence in that maternity"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1226.1,"endTime":1228.41,"body":"colonies is quite high, the"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1228.41,"endTime":1231.8,"body":"blokes stay away than they have"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1228.41,"endTime":1231.8,"body":"reduced to these bones. And"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1231.8,"endTime":1234.05,"body":"that's what we found. And we"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1231.8,"endTime":1234.05,"body":"also found that for"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1234.05,"endTime":1237.53,"body":"coronaviruses, so what we're"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1234.05,"endTime":1237.53,"body":"looking at there is social"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1237.53,"endTime":1241.43,"body":"distancing. Okay, so the males"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1237.53,"endTime":1241.43,"body":"are socially distancing"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1241.43,"endTime":1247.13,"body":"themselves from the potentially"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1241.43,"endTime":1247.13,"body":"effective population, which in"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1247.13,"endTime":1249.38,"body":"hindsight, that's kind of cool,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1247.13,"endTime":1249.38,"body":"because that's what we're being"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1249.38,"endTime":1253.7,"body":"told to do so. So, there may be"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1249.38,"endTime":1253.7,"body":"other reasons to why bachelor"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1253.7,"endTime":1256.61,"body":"con is one but this is what"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1253.7,"endTime":1256.61,"body":"certainly one hypothesis, and"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1256.61,"endTime":1259.28,"body":"it's quite easy to think that"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1256.61,"endTime":1259.28,"body":"nature has evolved social"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1259.28,"endTime":1261.59,"body":"distancing to avoid Coronavirus"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1259.28,"endTime":1261.59,"body":"infection."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1261.95,"endTime":1264.17,"body":"You heard it here."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1261.95,"endTime":1264.17,"body":"First folks that's been doing"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1264.17,"endTime":1267.65,"body":"social distancing for a lot"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1264.17,"endTime":1267.65,"body":"longer than we have. Lisa, the"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1267.86,"endTime":1273.17,"body":"IUCN have recently issued some"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1267.86,"endTime":1273.17,"body":"guidance. What is the risk of"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1273.44,"endTime":1277.46,"body":"the human strain of the current"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1273.44,"endTime":1277.46,"body":"Coronavirus, mutating and"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1277.49,"endTime":1282.29,"body":"jumping back back from human to"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1277.49,"endTime":1282.29,"body":"bats. If that happens, if it's"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1282.29,"endTime":1285.62,"body":"possible, is there a possibility"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1282.29,"endTime":1285.62,"body":"that we could see another white"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1285.62,"endTime":1289.43,"body":"nose syndrome type of event with"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1285.62,"endTime":1289.43,"body":"mass bat deaths because of a new"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1289.43,"endTime":1291.56,"body":"strain of Coronavirus that"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1289.43,"endTime":1291.56,"body":"they're not used to?"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1292.67,"endTime":1295.73,"body":"Well, firstly, we"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1292.67,"endTime":1295.73,"body":"don't know. But there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1295.73,"endTime":1298.82,"body":"work going on at the moment to"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1295.73,"endTime":1298.82,"body":"understand the risk of human"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1298.82,"endTime":1302.36,"body":"transmission, not just the bats"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1298.82,"endTime":1302.36,"body":"but all sorts of other animals,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1302.36,"endTime":1306.83,"body":"including domestic pets and"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1302.36,"endTime":1306.83,"body":"wildlife as well. So that's"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1306.83,"endTime":1310.58,"body":"that's a piece of work. That's"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1306.83,"endTime":1310.58,"body":"very much an action. What we"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1310.61,"endTime":1315.26,"body":"what we don't know is at the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1310.61,"endTime":1315.26,"body":"moment, our understanding from"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1315.26,"endTime":1319.43,"body":"other Coronavirus is within that"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1315.26,"endTime":1319.43,"body":"is they don't seem to make that"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1319.43,"endTime":1327.65,"body":"sick. So we don't know what"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1319.43,"endTime":1327.65,"body":"would happen. Should the SARS"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1327.65,"endTime":1332.27,"body":"cov two virus be able to infect"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1327.65,"endTime":1332.27,"body":"bats. And it's really important"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1332.27,"endTime":1335.84,"body":"to remember that, although we"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1332.27,"endTime":1335.84,"body":"tend to talk about bats in the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1335.84,"endTime":1342.41,"body":"round, there are 1400 species of"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1335.84,"endTime":1342.41,"body":"bats. And they are incredibly"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1342.41,"endTime":1344.99,"body":"diverse. And we were talking"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1342.41,"endTime":1344.99,"body":"about genetic differences"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1344.99,"endTime":1347.21,"body":"earlier, I think it's worth"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1344.99,"endTime":1347.21,"body":"pointing out are common and"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1347.21,"endTime":1350.66,"body":"subprime and pipistrelles that"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1347.21,"endTime":1350.66,"body":"we only separated as two species"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1350.66,"endTime":1356.0,"body":"in the 1980s are more"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1350.66,"endTime":1356.0,"body":"genetically different than"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1356.0,"endTime":1359.57,"body":"humans and chimpanzees. So you"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1356.0,"endTime":1359.57,"body":"know, that even with species"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1359.57,"endTime":1362.69,"body":"that seem very similar, there"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1359.57,"endTime":1362.69,"body":"are huge differences. So it's"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1362.69,"endTime":1366.05,"body":"really dangerous to talk about"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1362.69,"endTime":1366.05,"body":"bats in the round in this sort"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1366.05,"endTime":1370.16,"body":"of thing. So we don't, we don't"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1366.05,"endTime":1370.16,"body":"we don't know whether it can"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1370.19,"endTime":1374.03,"body":"move back the this virus isn't,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1370.19,"endTime":1374.03,"body":"it isn't recognisable from the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1374.03,"endTime":1379.94,"body":"most similar virus we found in"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1374.03,"endTime":1379.94,"body":"bats isn't the same. But it is"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1379.94,"endTime":1383.93,"body":"of a group. It's gone through a"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1379.94,"endTime":1383.93,"body":"lot of changes in order to be"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1383.93,"endTime":1388.91,"body":"able to infect humans. So there"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1383.93,"endTime":1388.91,"body":"isn't a strong indication that"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1388.91,"endTime":1392.54,"body":"it's readily going to infect"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1388.91,"endTime":1392.54,"body":"that. But there is of course, a"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1392.54,"endTime":1396.23,"body":"potential. And that's why the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1392.54,"endTime":1396.23,"body":"IUCN statements been issued. And"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1396.23,"endTime":1400.67,"body":"that's why with BCTs guidance,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1396.23,"endTime":1400.67,"body":"for example, we recently issued"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1400.67,"endTime":1404.93,"body":"for about carers, we want people"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1400.67,"endTime":1404.93,"body":"to take sensible precautions to"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1404.93,"endTime":1410.84,"body":"minimise any risk there might be"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1404.93,"endTime":1410.84,"body":"until we understand things a bit"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1410.84,"endTime":1414.38,"body":"more until scientists have had"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1410.84,"endTime":1414.38,"body":"more time to investigate. And"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1414.47,"endTime":1417.65,"body":"from our perspective, that's"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1414.47,"endTime":1417.65,"body":"things like people taking what"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1417.65,"endTime":1420.29,"body":"are becoming everyday"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1417.65,"endTime":1420.29,"body":"precautions, let's face it in"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1420.29,"endTime":1424.1,"body":"wearing face coverings, in"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1420.29,"endTime":1424.1,"body":"taking sensible disease risk"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1424.1,"endTime":1426.98,"body":"management precautions and most"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1424.1,"endTime":1426.98,"body":"people who are regularly"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1426.98,"endTime":1430.19,"body":"handling bats should be doing"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1426.98,"endTime":1430.19,"body":"this sort of thing anyway,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1430.34,"endTime":1434.12,"body":"because of other disease risks."},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1430.34,"endTime":1434.12,"body":"So you know, sensible hygiene,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1434.12,"endTime":1439.31,"body":"wearing gloves, all of this sort"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1434.12,"endTime":1439.31,"body":"of thing. So, basically, those"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1439.31,"endTime":1442.52,"body":"are the main things that we're"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1439.31,"endTime":1442.52,"body":"asking at the moment. But as you"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1442.52,"endTime":1446.09,"body":"said right at the beginning,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1442.52,"endTime":1446.09,"body":"this is a rapidly changing"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1446.09,"endTime":1450.02,"body":"situation. And all of our"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1446.09,"endTime":1450.02,"body":"guidance. In fact, even our"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1450.02,"endTime":1452.69,"body":"general Frequently Asked"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1450.02,"endTime":1452.69,"body":"Questions type information about"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1452.69,"endTime":1457.19,"body":"COVID-19 carries the the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1452.69,"endTime":1457.19,"body":"disclaimer, if you like that"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1457.19,"endTime":1460.49,"body":"this information could change"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1457.19,"endTime":1460.49,"body":"and it could change in the next"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1460.49,"endTime":1463.67,"body":"few days. It could change in the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1460.49,"endTime":1463.67,"body":"next few weeks. It could change"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1463.67,"endTime":1467.45,"body":"in the next few months. You know"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1463.67,"endTime":1467.45,"body":"what this is going to be with us"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1467.45,"endTime":1470.69,"body":"for quite a while and it's going"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1467.45,"endTime":1470.69,"body":"to take us quite a while to"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1470.75,"endTime":1476.75,"body":"understand the human to animal"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1470.75,"endTime":1476.75,"body":"route both the routes into"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1476.75,"endTime":1480.05,"body":"humans and then any potential"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1476.75,"endTime":1480.05,"body":"route out from humans. Because"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1480.05,"endTime":1484.4,"body":"right now, as Tom said, the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1480.05,"endTime":1484.4,"body":"focus has got to be on human"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1484.4,"endTime":1487.01,"body":"health and that's absolutely"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1484.4,"endTime":1487.01,"body":"where the priorities are. So"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1487.01,"endTime":1489.62,"body":"again, in our guidance about"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1487.01,"endTime":1489.62,"body":"people wearing face coverings,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1489.62,"endTime":1492.17,"body":"we've we've given instructions"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1489.62,"endTime":1492.17,"body":"on how to make your own if"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1492.17,"endTime":1494.78,"body":"you're if you if you say minded"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1492.17,"endTime":1494.78,"body":"and it's really important people"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1494.78,"endTime":1498.86,"body":"aren't taking supplies away from"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1494.78,"endTime":1498.86,"body":"NHS and health care providers"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1498.89,"endTime":1499.49,"body":"etc."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1500.02,"endTime":1502.36,"body":"And we should say"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1500.02,"endTime":1502.36,"body":"we'll put a link to those those"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1502.36,"endTime":1506.74,"body":"guided notes from BCT in the"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1502.36,"endTime":1506.74,"body":"show notes below this podcast"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1506.74,"endTime":1507.19,"body":"episode."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1507.52,"endTime":1511.3,"body":"So I totally agree"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1507.52,"endTime":1511.3,"body":"with what Lisa said that about,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1511.33,"endTime":1514.36,"body":"we don't really know what the"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1511.33,"endTime":1514.36,"body":"probability those things are and"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1514.36,"endTime":1517.51,"body":"what effect they would have, as"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1514.36,"endTime":1517.51,"body":"a couple of insights from my PhD"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1517.51,"endTime":1522.16,"body":"research. One was, we looked at"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1517.51,"endTime":1522.16,"body":"all the bats that had"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1522.34,"endTime":1527.62,"body":"Coronaviruses. So the bats that"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1522.34,"endTime":1527.62,"body":"we sampled, about 40% of them"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1527.62,"endTime":1533.56,"body":"had Coronavirus, and they didn't"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1527.62,"endTime":1533.56,"body":"show any effect of this on their"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1533.56,"endTime":1536.5,"body":"health. So that was quite"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1533.56,"endTime":1536.5,"body":"interesting. That was one"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1536.5,"endTime":1542.47,"body":"insight. And the other was that"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1536.5,"endTime":1542.47,"body":"each bat species that we sampled"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1542.5,"endTime":1545.68,"body":"that had Coronavirus, they had"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1542.5,"endTime":1545.68,"body":"their own sort of lineage of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1545.68,"endTime":1550.54,"body":"Coronavirus. So there was"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1545.68,"endTime":1550.54,"body":"specific to that species. So, in"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1550.54,"endTime":1553.45,"body":"a way you could think of it as"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1550.54,"endTime":1553.45,"body":"like the viruses evolving. The"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1553.45,"endTime":1558.37,"body":"bat species by species has its"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1553.45,"endTime":1558.37,"body":"own Coronavirus. We even sampled"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1558.4,"endTime":1561.25,"body":"one species in two different"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1558.4,"endTime":1561.25,"body":"locations about 50 kilometres"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1561.25,"endTime":1565.81,"body":"apart, and those viruses"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1561.25,"endTime":1565.81,"body":"grouped. So the viruses one site"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1565.81,"endTime":1568.39,"body":"were grouped together, in being"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1565.81,"endTime":1568.39,"body":"case related, they were more"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1568.39,"endTime":1570.94,"body":"distantly related to another"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1568.39,"endTime":1570.94,"body":"group of viruses from another"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1570.94,"endTime":1575.32,"body":"location. So sort of also"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1570.94,"endTime":1575.32,"body":"spatially, which was, which is"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1575.32,"endTime":1579.04,"body":"kind of cool. And that kind of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1575.32,"endTime":1579.04,"body":"speaks to the story that you"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1579.04,"endTime":1583.63,"body":"know, we have different viruses"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1579.04,"endTime":1583.63,"body":"coronaviruses evolved, developed"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1583.63,"endTime":1587.44,"body":"for different bat species. But"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1583.63,"endTime":1587.44,"body":"whilst those both might give"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1587.44,"endTime":1590.59,"body":"some indication as to the"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1587.44,"endTime":1590.59,"body":"likelihood of transmission to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1590.59,"endTime":1593.77,"body":"bats, and what impact might"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1590.59,"endTime":1593.77,"body":"have, we will really don't know"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1593.77,"endTime":1595.69,"body":"because this is a this is a new"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1593.77,"endTime":1595.69,"body":"virus."},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1596.14,"endTime":1598.09,"body":"I guess the only"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1596.14,"endTime":1598.09,"body":"other thing that we've not"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1598.09,"endTime":1602.32,"body":"mentioned that I think it's"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1598.09,"endTime":1602.32,"body":"worth highlighting is people who"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1602.32,"endTime":1608.5,"body":"have roosts in their homes, if"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1602.32,"endTime":1608.5,"body":"you're not disturbing your bats"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1608.5,"endTime":1611.2,"body":"if you're not coming in direct"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1608.5,"endTime":1611.2,"body":"contact with your bats, you"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1611.2,"endTime":1616.63,"body":"know, first of all, so as cough"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1611.2,"endTime":1616.63,"body":"to Coronavirus disease. This has"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1616.63,"endTime":1621.91,"body":"not been found in a bat species."},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1616.63,"endTime":1621.91,"body":"And certainly we don't have"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1622.63,"endTime":1625.0,"body":"correct me if I'm wrong, Tom,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1622.63,"endTime":1625.0,"body":"but we don't do Coronavirus as"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1625.0,"endTime":1628.9,"body":"we found in UK bats on that"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1625.0,"endTime":1628.9,"body":"closely related to those that"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1628.9,"endTime":1631.84,"body":"have been isolated from the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1628.9,"endTime":1631.84,"body":"horseshoe bats and Chandra, is"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1631.84,"endTime":1632.35,"body":"that right?"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1632.39,"endTime":1634.37,"body":"No, they're not and"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1632.39,"endTime":1634.37,"body":"they're not closely related to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1634.37,"endTime":1636.14,"body":"other human growth right"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1634.37,"endTime":1636.14,"body":"Coronavirus is either."},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1637.16,"endTime":1641.45,"body":"So the bats in"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1637.16,"endTime":1641.45,"body":"your house present no risk in"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1641.45,"endTime":1647.42,"body":"terms of COVID-19 to you. And"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1641.45,"endTime":1647.42,"body":"you're perfectly safe having a"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1647.45,"endTime":1649.49,"body":"having a wrist in your in your"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1647.45,"endTime":1649.49,"body":"house?"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1650.39,"endTime":1652.22,"body":"Should we expect more"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1650.39,"endTime":1652.22,"body":"of these pandemics in the"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1652.22,"endTime":1654.56,"body":"future? And if so, how do we"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1652.22,"endTime":1654.56,"body":"prevent this from happening"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1654.56,"endTime":1657.14,"body":"again? I don't mind who answers"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1654.56,"endTime":1657.14,"body":"this?"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1657.919,"endTime":1661.609,"body":"I think yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1657.919,"endTime":1661.609,"body":"think pandemics will become more"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1661.609,"endTime":1665.599,"body":"common. And that, as I said"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1661.609,"endTime":1665.599,"body":"earlier is primarily down to how"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1665.599,"endTime":1669.769,"body":"we now live our lives, our"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1665.599,"endTime":1669.769,"body":"international lives. Because"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1669.829,"endTime":1673.009,"body":"zoonosis have always been a"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1669.829,"endTime":1673.009,"body":"feature of of human history of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1673.009,"endTime":1677.239,"body":"nature's history. But"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1673.009,"endTime":1677.239,"body":"traditionally they would be"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1677.239,"endTime":1679.999,"body":"localised. Now, now when they"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1677.239,"endTime":1679.999,"body":"come to humans, they go global."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1680.329,"endTime":1683.779,"body":"So yeah, I think pandemics is"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1680.329,"endTime":1683.779,"body":"going to become more common. And"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1683.779,"endTime":1687.949,"body":"indeed, many people have been"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1683.779,"endTime":1687.949,"body":"predicting exactly this event."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1688.159,"endTime":1691.579,"body":"Lisa mentioned contagion, for"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1688.159,"endTime":1691.579,"body":"example, which is written by a"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1691.579,"endTime":1696.469,"body":"CDC epidemiologist based on the"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1691.579,"endTime":1696.469,"body":"Nieper virus. So you know, yes,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1696.949,"endTime":1699.739,"body":"we know these things are going"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1696.949,"endTime":1699.739,"body":"to happen more frequently. In"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1699.739,"endTime":1702.079,"body":"terms of how we prevent those. I"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1699.739,"endTime":1702.079,"body":"think we've we've sort of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1702.079,"endTime":1705.049,"body":"touched dance around some of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1702.079,"endTime":1705.049,"body":"these issues already. For me,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1705.049,"endTime":1707.779,"body":"there's there's two key elements"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1705.049,"endTime":1707.779,"body":"is that the original spillover"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1707.779,"endTime":1711.259,"body":"event, and then there's the move"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1707.779,"endTime":1711.259,"body":"to pandemic moved pandemic,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1711.259,"endTime":1714.259,"body":"that's also human health. That's"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1711.259,"endTime":1714.259,"body":"all the stuff that you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1714.289,"endTime":1715.909,"body":"everyone's talking about"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1714.289,"endTime":1715.909,"body":"government's talking about right"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1715.909,"endTime":1719.119,"body":"now. I guess what we want to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1715.909,"endTime":1719.119,"body":"focus on is that original"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1719.119,"endTime":1721.969,"body":"spillover event. And Lisa has"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1719.119,"endTime":1721.969,"body":"already talked about"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1721.999,"endTime":1727.099,"body":"deforestation, and the sorts of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1721.999,"endTime":1727.099,"body":"things which can impact on bat"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1727.099,"endTime":1730.309,"body":"populations. And in my mind,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1727.099,"endTime":1730.309,"body":"they do two things, they"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1730.309,"endTime":1733.279,"body":"increase the prevalence in the"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1730.309,"endTime":1733.279,"body":"bat population, and they"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1733.279,"endTime":1736.939,"body":"increase the contact between"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1733.279,"endTime":1736.939,"body":"well, not just about any any"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1736.939,"endTime":1741.379,"body":"hosts, and their contact with"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1736.939,"endTime":1741.379,"body":"with humans. So you can imagine"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1741.379,"endTime":1745.939,"body":"you're cutting down some habitat"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1741.379,"endTime":1745.939,"body":"that's used, for example, by"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1745.939,"endTime":1749.419,"body":"bats. That population is then"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1745.939,"endTime":1749.419,"body":"under increased stress, as in"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1749.419,"endTime":1753.169,"body":"the main net to travel further"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1749.419,"endTime":1753.169,"body":"for food. Stress, just as in"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1753.169,"endTime":1757.039,"body":"humans, can make you more"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1753.169,"endTime":1757.039,"body":"susceptible to infection. And so"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1757.039,"endTime":1761.209,"body":"that sort of activity can"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1757.039,"endTime":1761.209,"body":"increase prevalence. Because"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1761.209,"endTime":1765.349,"body":"bats may be moving further to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1761.209,"endTime":1765.349,"body":"forage for food. They're coming"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1765.349,"endTime":1768.529,"body":"in close contact with other"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1765.349,"endTime":1768.529,"body":"individuals, that's going to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1768.529,"endTime":1772.609,"body":"increase transmission, which may"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1768.529,"endTime":1772.609,"body":"also increased prevalence. If"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1772.609,"endTime":1776.839,"body":"they're travelling further, they"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1772.609,"endTime":1776.839,"body":"may also be travelling to more"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1776.839,"endTime":1781.039,"body":"urban areas. Or you can think of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1776.839,"endTime":1781.039,"body":"like rodents, for example, might"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1781.039,"endTime":1784.279,"body":"be travelling into human"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1781.039,"endTime":1784.279,"body":"dwellings to find foods and"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1784.279,"endTime":1788.329,"body":"rodents can be a source of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1784.279,"endTime":1788.329,"body":"diseases as well. So there is"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1788.329,"endTime":1792.139,"body":"the increased contact with"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1788.329,"endTime":1792.139,"body":"humans. So there's lots of"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1792.139,"endTime":1797.149,"body":"activities, including habitat"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1792.139,"endTime":1797.149,"body":"destruction, including the ways"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1797.149,"endTime":1802.009,"body":"that we have live markets. and"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1797.149,"endTime":1802.009,"body":"lots of things that we can"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1802.039,"endTime":1806.179,"body":"change in the way that we live"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1802.039,"endTime":1806.179,"body":"our lives that will help to"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1806.179,"endTime":1808.489,"body":"reduce these sorts of spillover"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1806.179,"endTime":1808.489,"body":"events in the future."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1810.04,"endTime":1812.95,"body":"So to summarise, if"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1810.04,"endTime":1812.95,"body":"listeners are delivering bat"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1812.95,"endTime":1815.74,"body":"talks, either later in the year,"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1812.95,"endTime":1815.74,"body":"or probably more likely next"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1815.74,"endTime":1818.47,"body":"year now and a member of the"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1815.74,"endTime":1818.47,"body":"public asks where the bats were"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1818.47,"endTime":1821.14,"body":"responsible for the outbreak,"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1818.47,"endTime":1821.14,"body":"what's the perfect concise"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1821.14,"endTime":1823.3,"body":"answer to give given our current"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1821.14,"endTime":1823.3,"body":"knowledge?"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1824.56,"endTime":1833.26,"body":"No. How concise"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1824.56,"endTime":1833.26,"body":"would you like? It comes back to"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1833.26,"endTime":1838.63,"body":"what I said earlier, really. No."},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1833.26,"endTime":1838.63,"body":"Saying this this you can argue"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1838.63,"endTime":1841.96,"body":"that there's obviously a role"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1838.63,"endTime":1841.96,"body":"and when you when you when you"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1841.96,"endTime":1847.72,"body":"trace what the origins of the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1841.96,"endTime":1847.72,"body":"virus were, but it is not. But"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1847.75,"endTime":1853.51,"body":"it is human activity. That is"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1847.75,"endTime":1853.51,"body":"causing increase in emerging"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1853.51,"endTime":1857.95,"body":"infectious diseases, that is"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1853.51,"endTime":1857.95,"body":"causing an increasing number of"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1857.95,"endTime":1862.0,"body":"pandemics. It is the way we live"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1857.95,"endTime":1862.0,"body":"our lives it is the fact that"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1862.0,"endTime":1866.23,"body":"we're not very good. And I mean"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1862.0,"endTime":1866.23,"body":"this globally as thinking of"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1866.23,"endTime":1870.01,"body":"things in the round. This is"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1866.23,"endTime":1870.01,"body":"what the world health approach"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1870.01,"endTime":1875.23,"body":"has tried to try to do in recent"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1870.01,"endTime":1875.23,"body":"years, is consider the link"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1875.23,"endTime":1879.79,"body":"between ecology, biodiversity,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1875.23,"endTime":1879.79,"body":"human health. And I think we"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1879.79,"endTime":1883.0,"body":"need to be taking that much more"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1879.79,"endTime":1883.0,"body":"seriously. And we need to be"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1883.12,"endTime":1888.46,"body":"considering it much more"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1883.12,"endTime":1888.46,"body":"broadly, in all aspects of life"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1888.46,"endTime":1893.17,"body":"in all aspects of development,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1888.46,"endTime":1893.17,"body":"and thinking much more at a"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1893.17,"endTime":1897.4,"body":"landscape scale. That's a common"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1893.17,"endTime":1897.4,"body":"phrase, isn't it these days in"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1897.4,"endTime":1901.81,"body":"conservation. But you know, we"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1897.4,"endTime":1901.81,"body":"need to be thinking much more at"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1901.81,"endTime":1905.95,"body":"this at this larger scale, about"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1901.81,"endTime":1905.95,"body":"the potential impacts of a whole"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1905.95,"endTime":1909.31,"body":"variety of human activities, and"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1905.95,"endTime":1909.31,"body":"ultimately leaks into climate"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1909.31,"endTime":1912.16,"body":"change as well. But are to"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1909.31,"endTime":1912.16,"body":"blame? No, they're not.,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1913.03,"endTime":1915.58,"body":"I think if someone"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1913.03,"endTime":1915.58,"body":"Yeah, so essentially, yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1915.58,"endTime":1918.82,"body":"someone asks, you know, that's"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1915.58,"endTime":1918.82,"body":"to blame. This is clearly said,"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1918.82,"endTime":1923.59,"body":"yeah, bats are not to blame. The"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1918.82,"endTime":1923.59,"body":"question is, how do we prevent"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1923.59,"endTime":1925.27,"body":"this sort of thing happening"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1923.59,"endTime":1925.27,"body":"again in the future. And this is"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1925.27,"endTime":1929.74,"body":"one these rare occurrences were"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1925.27,"endTime":1929.74,"body":"actually the interests of bats"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1929.77,"endTime":1934.57,"body":"and the interests of humans"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1929.77,"endTime":1934.57,"body":"actually align. So conservation"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1934.6,"endTime":1939.22,"body":"of bats, preserving that"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1934.6,"endTime":1939.22,"body":"habitat, keeping healthy wild"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1939.22,"endTime":1944.32,"body":"bat populations, great for bats."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1939.22,"endTime":1944.32,"body":"Also great for preventing"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1944.59,"endTime":1950.11,"body":"spillover events. So it's kind"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1944.59,"endTime":1950.11,"body":"of win-win conservation advances"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1950.11,"endTime":1953.98,"body":"directly aligned with ambition"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1950.11,"endTime":1953.98,"body":"to reduce spillover events."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1955.6,"endTime":1956.11,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1956.71,"endTime":1957.43,"body":"Well said Tom."},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1959.14,"endTime":1961.24,"body":"That was the closing"},{"speaker":"Tom August","startTime":1959.14,"endTime":1961.24,"body":"paragraph of my PhD thesis."},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1962.65,"endTime":1964.81,"body":"Brilliant, your"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1962.65,"endTime":1964.81,"body":"time your time has come!"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1968.41,"endTime":1971.08,"body":"And do you guys have"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1968.41,"endTime":1971.08,"body":"any suggested back projects that"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1971.08,"endTime":1974.38,"body":"people could be doing at home"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":1971.08,"endTime":1974.38,"body":"during lockdown? Oh,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1974.41,"endTime":1976.33,"body":"Well, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1974.41,"endTime":1976.33,"body":"there's, there's, there's quite"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1976.33,"endTime":1978.82,"body":"a few things you can do,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1976.33,"endTime":1978.82,"body":"actually, depending on how batty"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1978.82,"endTime":1982.45,"body":"you already are. I mean, one of"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1978.82,"endTime":1982.45,"body":"the things we're encouraging the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1982.45,"endTime":1985.51,"body":"Bat Conservation Trust is people"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1982.45,"endTime":1985.51,"body":"to take part in our sunset"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1985.51,"endTime":1989.53,"body":"sunrise survey. And that"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1985.51,"endTime":1989.53,"body":"although in the past, we said"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1989.53,"endTime":1993.13,"body":"people you need to be wandering"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1989.53,"endTime":1993.13,"body":"around your neighbourhood, we're"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1993.13,"endTime":1996.07,"body":"actually updating that to say"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1993.13,"endTime":1996.07,"body":"you can participate from your"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1996.07,"endTime":1999.85,"body":"own garden. If you don't have a"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1996.07,"endTime":1999.85,"body":"garden, it can be your balcony,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1999.85,"endTime":2003.87,"body":"it can be leaning out of your"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":1999.85,"endTime":2003.87,"body":"window, but not too far. Just"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2003.87,"endTime":2007.62,"body":"looking even if you've got a bat"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2003.87,"endTime":2007.62,"body":"detector, just looking out at"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2007.62,"endTime":2011.43,"body":"dusk, and just after and seeing"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2007.62,"endTime":2011.43,"body":"if you can observe any bats"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2011.43,"endTime":2014.82,"body":"flying around and share that"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2011.43,"endTime":2014.82,"body":"information with obesity. So you"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2014.82,"endTime":2017.82,"body":"can see all of that on on our"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2014.82,"endTime":2017.82,"body":"website. And I'm sure Steve, you"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2017.82,"endTime":2021.87,"body":"can add the link. There's other"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2017.82,"endTime":2021.87,"body":"practical things. So if you're"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2021.87,"endTime":2027.12,"body":"looking for a crafty activity"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2021.87,"endTime":2027.12,"body":"during lockdown, why not make"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2027.12,"endTime":2032.07,"body":"about box, pop up a box at home"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2027.12,"endTime":2032.07,"body":"those instructions again, on our"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2032.07,"endTime":2035.79,"body":"website. But combat box design"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2032.07,"endTime":2035.79,"body":"is a really great one, nice and"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2035.79,"endTime":2039.63,"body":"straightforward and has a good"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2035.79,"endTime":2039.63,"body":"chance of being used if it's if"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2039.63,"endTime":2045.27,"body":"it's put up in the right place."},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2039.63,"endTime":2045.27,"body":"If you want to start planning"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2045.27,"endTime":2047.43,"body":"for when we're out the other"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2045.27,"endTime":2047.43,"body":"side, and we're allowed out to"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2047.43,"endTime":2050.76,"body":"play again, why not go in, find"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2047.43,"endTime":2050.76,"body":"the details of your local back"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2050.76,"endTime":2054.3,"body":"group, get involved, make"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2050.76,"endTime":2054.3,"body":"contact with them. So once they"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2054.3,"endTime":2058.26,"body":"are up and running activities,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2054.3,"endTime":2058.26,"body":"you can go in and get engaged,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2058.26,"endTime":2061.47,"body":"hopefully get out about what"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2058.26,"endTime":2061.47,"body":"with other folks, and then more"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2061.5,"endTime":2065.22,"body":"more that way. And I would say"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2061.5,"endTime":2065.22,"body":"finally, for those of you who"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2065.22,"endTime":2068.61,"body":"are listening who are seasoned"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2065.22,"endTime":2068.61,"body":"back workers, and I've been"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2068.61,"endTime":2075.57,"body":"putting off analysing those"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2068.61,"endTime":2075.57,"body":"20,000 recordings. Now's a"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2075.57,"endTime":2078.78,"body":"really good time to start"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2075.57,"endTime":2078.78,"body":"working on that there won't be a"},{"speaker":"Lisa Worledge","startTime":2078.78,"endTime":2079.71,"body":"better opportunity."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2081.36,"endTime":2086.7,"body":"Great advice. And my"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2081.36,"endTime":2086.7,"body":"thanks to Tom August from the UK"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2086.7,"endTime":2090.63,"body":"Centre for Ecology and"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2086.7,"endTime":2090.63,"body":"Hydrology, and Lisa Worledge,"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2090.66,"endTime":2093.93,"body":"head of conservation services at"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2090.66,"endTime":2093.93,"body":"the Bat Conservation Trust for"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2093.93,"endTime":2098.1,"body":"taking time out of their day to"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2093.93,"endTime":2098.1,"body":"speak with me. So as promised"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2098.13,"endTime":2100.47,"body":"the links to the various"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2098.13,"endTime":2100.47,"body":"resources mentioned In that"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2100.47,"endTime":2103.71,"body":"interview can be found in the"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2100.47,"endTime":2103.71,"body":"shownotes below, including how"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2103.71,"endTime":2106.92,"body":"to find your local bat group, so"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2103.71,"endTime":2106.92,"body":"that you can tell them about the"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2106.92,"endTime":2110.22,"body":"bats you may well be seeing in"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2106.92,"endTime":2110.22,"body":"your gardens during the evening,"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2110.37,"endTime":2114.33,"body":"and we know that they would love"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2110.37,"endTime":2114.33,"body":"to hear about those records. If"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2114.33,"endTime":2117.54,"body":"you're not already subscribed to"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2114.33,"endTime":2117.54,"body":"BatChat, consider subscribing."},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2117.81,"endTime":2121.26,"body":"That way, you'll automatically"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2117.81,"endTime":2121.26,"body":"get any further bonus episodes"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2121.29,"endTime":2125.67,"body":"between now and the release of"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2121.29,"endTime":2125.67,"body":"Sirius to later in the year. We"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2125.67,"endTime":2128.49,"body":"hope you've enjoyed this"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2125.67,"endTime":2128.49,"body":"episode. And if you have, please"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2128.49,"endTime":2131.73,"body":"let your friends and family know"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2128.49,"endTime":2131.73,"body":"about our podcast, you can join"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2131.73,"endTime":2135.03,"body":"the online conversation on"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2131.73,"endTime":2135.03,"body":"social media using the hashtag"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2135.03,"endTime":2139.62,"body":"BatChat. Until next time, please"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2135.03,"endTime":2139.62,"body":"continue to stay safe and"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2139.62,"endTime":2143.67,"body":"remember, one day life will"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2139.62,"endTime":2143.67,"body":"return to some sort of"},{"speaker":"Steve Roe","startTime":2143.67,"endTime":2144.33,"body":"normality."}]}