012 : Sober Life with Ashley Rhyner

Life is a difficult journey. We of course all strive to live our best life, however, it isn't always perfect.

When we grow up, we sometimes fall into difficult choices/circumstances. In high school, I had the privilege to go to school with a beautiful human being that has been through some turbulent times.

Ashley Rhyner experienced her parents splitting, her father coming out as a gay man, and her step dad passing of cancer. As a young girl, the process was extremely difficult, and in trying to find strength in such a difficult set of circumstances, she fell into 10 years of hard drugs and alcohol.

Ashley is a prime example of why we must not look at circumstances and judge the people experiencing them, but instead, take a deeper look into their crisis, and help them heal. 

Today Ashley is three years sober, and now is a mentor for many others going through the same struggles.

It's all perspective.

Ashley’s heart and attitude for life made her the perfect guest, and she constantly inspires me to this day. 

Here's our chat. 

Ashley Rhyner : @Rottenharls23

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Let's step back a little. Take a look inside our true self. Get comfortable in the uncomfortable. And let's embrace our reality. Life is tough, but so are you. Welcome to the Choose Your Attitude Podcast with Nicholas Strand. Join Nick, author of Loving Someone Who's Dying, as he shares his experiences of life loss to life on the road as a traveling roadie. And his guests will get into real topics while encouraging you to let go of the past, lift up the present, and fiercely build your better tomorrow. Let's get through this together. Now, here's your host, Nick Strand.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Hey, welcome to the Choose Your Attitude Podcast, where we discuss real life stuff, learn to master the only aspects we can control in life, and use it as a tool to make today the best day of your life. Every morning we wake up with a choice to make. What attitude are you going to create your life with today? We chat with people of all walks of life, people sharing their own stories and tips of some of life's most difficult journey. There is no proper way to do this correctly, besides talking about it and walking through the process, no matter how difficult it may be. So let's train the elephant in the room together, but first a word from our sponsors. Are you looking for some much-needed motivation? Maybe a new way to feel inspired. We know that life is tough, but so are you. Finding that perfect shirt you've been dreaming of is a tough journey. But we have you covered. That's why we are here with Choose Your Attitude Apparel. Wear with confidence and remind yourself you're choosing a way to success. It is a constant reminder that you can share with others. Join the Choose Your Attitude community and share an attitude of style that others will want to be a part of. So get yours now at chooseyourattitude.com. Would you like to be a sponsor on the Choose Your Attitude Podcast? Reach out to us at podcast at chooseyattitude.com. Life is a difficult journey. We all strive to live our best life. However, life isn't always perfect. When we grow up, we sometimes fall into difficult choices. In high school, I had the privilege to go to school with a beautiful human being that has been through a lot. Ashley Reiner experienced her parents splitting, her father coming out as a gay man, her stepdad passing of cancer. For a young girl, the process was extremely difficult. And in trying to find strength in such a difficult set of circumstances, she fell into a hard set of drugs and alcohol. But Ashley is the exact example of why we must not look at these things and judge the people on them, but look deeper to help them from their pain and judge them on the deeper heart that they share with others. Ashley today is three years sober for such a difficult, complicated world. And she now is a mentor to many others going through the same struggles. It's all perspective as we try and live and that we have different vices to help us try and cope. But Ashley's heart, attitude, is beyond one of my biggest inspirations in life and is a prime example of our past should not weigh us down. They should not be hidden, but held up and embraced as a way to build and grow to that journey we all call life. Here's our chat and her beautiful story.com. This episode also has a video version that you can find and subscribe to others at youtube.com. Welcome everybody. I'm excited to introduce somebody that uh I went to school with uh ever since elementary school. And um I've watched her through many things in life through social media as we've um both kind of remain friends distantly through that. Uh Ashley Reiner, welcome. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Hi, well thanks.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Um so I brought her on because uh like most people, we all have uh our goal is to live through life and we all have a different type of struggle that we deal with. And um through kind of growing up, you kinda had a hard time. Um and it uh uh kind of made us uh made life a little bit more difficult than uh what's normal, I guess. I don't even want to say normal, I think normal is negative, but um a a challenge came forth um and and uh you had to overcome.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Can you explain that?

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Um well I probably starting from a very young age. I I would say I always felt different. Um, I never really felt a part of it. Felt like something I didn't fit in, is how I could explain that. Um and my we grew up in Bonnie Lake. Uh this when I tell my story, I always say that. Not a lot of people know about Bonnie Lake. Um in my definition of it, it was a small town, um uh pretty religious, or a few of the people that I knew were religious, and um and white was the majority. Um, and so well, my mom and my dad were never married, um, and that was different from most people in Bonnie Lake. Um, and they split up, I think, when I was about four, and then um my mom met my stepdad. We moved in with him, but they did not get married either, and uh that's just um remains pertinent to me because I remember a lot of my friends and my friends' parents always asking why they weren't married, and so once again, it was like, oh, something's wrong with me. Why aren't my parents married? I don't know, you know, and I was a little girl, not that I should know, but it it just gave that validity that maybe something was didn't fit with my with me and my family. Um, also my mom and my dad were both adopted, so I wasn't blood related to anybody in my family. Um, I looked, I felt like I looked different than everybody, and I did. I, you know, we didn't have the same genetics, but so again, gave that uh validity. And I think I was in the fourth grade or third grade, my dad came out as gay, um, and that was the first big secret that I had. Uh, we didn't talk about it, and of course, like I said, um, it wasn't something that I told anybody living in Bonnie Lake because I felt like you know, they're gonna judge me for it. And so I learned to keep a secret there. And my mom and my stepdad, we just we never talked about it. We it it was never brought up. I don't remember them ever asking me how I felt about it, how it affected me, nothing. And I learned later in life that my stepdad was um a functioning alcoholic, and so um I don't for me and the people that I've met in my life that grew up in alcoholic comp families, um, that you don't talk about your feelings, um just the things that go on in the household are not discussed, and so you know, I needed that as a little girl. I needed to be able to to talk about my feelings, and that just wasn't something that we did. And I think um uh what what how old was I? 14 or 15? I'm pretty sure you remember this. Um being in an alcoholic home, there was alcohol available, and at some point I thought maybe I should try that. And um I I don't remember what happened first. I want to say I drank first at a party and um I immediately loved it. It made me feel uh like I could fit in. It took away all of my insecurities. I felt like I was on top of the world when I I first drank alcohol. And um once I had it at the party, I knew where I could find it in my home. And so I drank it at home. And I think I was 14 or 15, I went to school drunk. I'm pretty sure you might have uh might have told the bus driver I was drunk. I can't remember. Really? Yeah, yeah. But and so what that did for me, uh it got me suspended. Um but like the counselor at the time, I remember her telling my parents, like she might be an alcoholic. And you know, it was like, no, she's just a kid. But I mean, looking back, uh how many kids went to school drunk? Not very many, right? So that could have been something a saving grace if if people had like really uh believed her when she said that. And um, it just kind of got shoved under the carpet, you know, it was kind of like don't do that again. And um like once I had I had found alcohol and realized that that was something that I enjoyed, I wanted to do it again. Um, and so as life progressed, I think I got a I got an MIP when we were 18. Um, and I I proceeded to look for other things, um stronger substances. You know, I tried marijuana when we were kids, and then um once I graduated and moved out of the house, it was like I felt like I could do whatever I wanted. Um, I had that uh with my stepdad being a functioning alcoholic, I believed that as long as I had a job and I paid my bills, that I could do whatever I wanted, right? And I wasn't affecting anybody. And so um probably right after high school, it's when my addiction really took off. Um, I started experimenting with other drugs, and basically uh I know now that was just my addict, my disease. It was just searching for what I liked best. Um, and I tried all kinds of substances. I mean crack, coke, meth, um, molly, pretty much any any drug out there, like I've I've tried it. And I think I first started, so when we were 21, it was kind of the big oxycotton wave. Um, and so I had had painkillers just prescribed from a doctor, opiates, and um I seemed to really enjoy those, and then oxycotton became a big thing, and I used that for a few years, and I went to treatment for the first time when I was 24. Um yeah, at 24, I really didn't want to believe that I was an addict. You know, I went to treatment mostly because I had owed my dad some money and I had no explanation for where the money was, other than I spent it on drugs. And uh I remember he took me to treatment and called my mom and told her that he had dropped me off. And my mom was like, What do you mean? Why would you do that? Like nobody knew I was a closet addict. It was this again another secret that I learned to keep. And um, I was good at it, and I felt like I was good at it until I wasn't, right? And so I got out of treatment, went back to work and did outpatient, and I I went to a 12-step program, and that seemed to work for a little bit, but um I had I had neck and shoulder problems. I could I continue to have those, but what that did was it gave me an excuse to go to the doctor and get more prescriptions, and they had no problem giving me those prescriptions because they could give me an x-ray and they could see I really had um not injuries, it was just things that I was born with, um, with my neck and shoulder. And so so I had kind of this excuse to to get drugs really legally. Yeah, they were they were legal. So um I struggled. I just struggled with it for a long time, and it was like I would be in and out of uh the program, and I I just couldn't figure it out. And um what happened is my stepdad uh he got really sick. I was about, I think I was 26 when he was diagnosed with uh leukemia, and we he ended up having to get a bone marrow transplant the following year. So it was 27. And uh what that looked like for us was multiple hospital visits in and out of the hospital, um, not really knowing what was happening. He had the bone marrow transplant, so he had he was diagnosed Christmas, um, and then the next year uh he did chemo throughout the year, and by September he had the bone marrow transplant, and then he was supposed to come home the following Christmas, and he just never recovered, like the and the the doctors never really said what was wrong, and so it was this big like we didn't really know what was happening, and he um he came home for just a little bit, maybe a month or so, and then ended up going back in, and it was like all these surgeries they were trying to do to help um his counts recover. And I just remember spending months and months at the hospital. So that was that Christmas he came home, he was probably back in the hospital by February, um, and then maybe March or April, I can't remember exactly. It's kind of a blur, and then by August, um, he ended up passing away, the beginning of August that year. And during that time, I was still trying to get clean, and again, nobody really knew that I was still popping pills on the side, and I was going to meetings and I ended up meeting somebody at the meetings. Um he was my soulmate. He wasn't, he really wasn't my soulmate, but at the time I thought he was, and he was a heroin addict, and I had never done heroin, and um he became the perfect distraction for everybody uh because we met, we got engaged after two weeks, and so then it, you know, it was like we went through from my stepdad dying to oh, let's have a wedding, right? And um and it was I just honestly looking back, it just seems like it was pure chaos and insanity, and I couldn't even see it at the time. Like at the time, it was just like trying to hold it together. Like I said, I'd never um we didn't really talk about our feelings, and that carried through to me being an adult, and so I'm trying to process the grief and loss of my my stepdad. And here it seems like we're just kind of moving on to the next thing, and so we ended up getting married the following year, and um I think before we even got married, we had we had done heroin together, and again, nobody knew that we had done heroin, and so um we and I I knew the moment that I tried heroin that it was going to be devastating for me because I if that was my soulmate. That's what I had felt at the time. When I first tried heroin, it was like this is all I ever want for the rest of my life because what heroin did for me is it took away any feeling, any thought, um, you know, everything. It it just made me feel nothing, and that's what I wanted. I didn't want to feel anything at that time. And so um we got married a few months later, we got full custody of his daughter, and I was like, this isn't gonna end well, and really that was the true beginning of um the beginning of the end for me, and it lasted a couple more years um of where eventually, so we we got custody of her daughter, we had her for a month or two, and she went back because I knew I told him he's gotta send her back. This isn't good for her. Um by the following year, our work had found out we worked together for that same company I'd worked for since I was 21. Um they figured out what was going on. We went to treatments, two separate treatments, and then it was um this kind of like I call it the treatment shuffle, where I would go to treatment and I would leave. I would go to detox. I didn't want to stay, so I'd call him and he'd come get me. And um he became like my enabler and the person that I would use with, and the person that I knew would always come and get me if I needed him to. And so um it it was like the perfect storm, and it it just got worse and worse and worse. And people along the way were warning me or were trying to help me and tell me like this isn't gonna end well, and I could I couldn't see it. And um, you know, eventually we lost our house. Um at one point he was living uh on the street, he had gone to treatment and left and was on the streets, and my mom put him up in a hotel, and I had gone um down to Arizona. My grandfather had gotten really sick. I had put together like 30 days clean, and my grandpa got really sick, and my dad was gonna go down there, and my first thought was like, I can't have my dad go down there and have his dad die and him be by himself, because I knew what that felt like. And so I went down with him, and my grandpa actually ended up getting better, and my dad had to come back and go back to work, and I was down there, and I was just gonna get my grandpa on a plane, fly him back, and I was gonna drive his truck back with everything he owned. And I I did all that, but the whole time I was down there, all I was thinking about was I wanted to get high, and so I ended up driving back, and like the good addict that I was, I was like, I'm gonna drive as far as I can or as long as I can, and maybe I'll make it home. And I made it from Arizona to Reading, California, and I think I made it there in about 14 hours or something, 16 hours, and I stayed the night there, and at that point, it was like all I could think about was getting high. And I woke up the next morning and um I got gas in the truck, and I kind of waited around because I was thinking maybe I'll see somebody, maybe I'll there'll be somebody here that I can get drugs from, really. And I waited, and sure enough, a girl comes walking up, and I just remember being like, there she is. That's uh yeah, I need that girl. I'm like, hey, she's like, hi, and I'm like, what's going on? She's like, my friends just left me at this store. We were in a stolen car or something crazy, you know, and of course immediately I'm like, yeah, she was ready to go. So I'm like, oh, you need a ride, and I remember this so vividly because it really uh was the catalyst to to the self-destruction. Not that I hadn't already pretty much self-destructed, but I mean, I'm talking complete ultimate utter self-destruction. And so I gave her a ride, and as soon as she was in the car, I was asking, um, you know, where we could get the dope. And she's like, Yeah, just come back to my house. And so we went to her apartment, and I think I was there for 10 minutes, and all of a sudden, just boom, boom, boom, boom, pounding on the door, and I'm like, oh my God, right? Like, what's happening? I'm just trying to get high. And it's uh the sheriff's calling or pounding on the door because she's getting evicted that day. And so uh what I've learned from this is that this was my higher power trying to step in and get my attention, like get the fuck out of there, Ashley. And I and looking back, like I can see multiple times where that was happening, like the people that were warning me, trying to help me. I've that was my higher power trying to get to me through other people to to get my attention. And um, and of course, I I you know they pound on the door, tell her she has till the end of the day to get out. And so I'm like, So, you know, all I'm thinking is so when can we get Some dope, right? Total disregard to that. And we end up going and get heroin, and I end up overdosing in the apartment. And that wasn't the first time. I um, the type of addict that I am, it's like if I am not unconscious, I'm not high enough. And so I overdosed in her apartment, and luckily they had found me, or they they had heard the water running because I was using heroin for so long that um I the only way I could find a vein was that I had to run my arms or my legs under hot water for the veins to show. And so the water had been running, and that's why they knew something was going on. And they called the um firefighters and they came, got me, took me to the hospital, they gave me Narcan and resuscitated me. But in the hospital, I remember coming to and being like, um, shit, you know, what am I gonna do? Where's my phone? I probably need to tell my mom because my mom and my dad had been calling that morning as well, knowing that I'm driving my grandfather's track home. So my first thought was I need to call my mom. And then my second thought, because they gave me my purse, was where are my keys? And they're like, and I remember saying to the paramedics, where are my keys? And they're like, What? And I'm like, the keys, I have my keys are not in my purse. And they said, Oh, we left them with your friend. So this is my grandfather's truck with everything that he owned, um, that I did not have keys to. And they brought me back to the apartment and they had stolen the truck. And so um, at that point, I I had to call my parents and tell them what had happened. Um, and that's still something that to this day, like I could not, I can't replace the things that were in that truck, right? And so um I ended up flying home, and my dad came and I think my mom came and got me, and I called my dad, and my dad at that point didn't want anything to do with me because I had been, you know, at this point I've been to nine or ten different treatment centers, outpatient, inpatient, in and out. And it's like, you know what? My parents are just like you're not gonna figure it out, you know, they're losing hope that that this this is not gonna end well. Um, and so I came home. Like I said, my mom was uh housing my husband in a hotel in Seattle. We went and got him, and the next day I made a decision that we needed to leave because I couldn't face um my friends and my family for what I had just done. And so we went straight to the T-Mobile store, changed our numbers because I didn't want them being able to contact me. I disconnected all of my social media um because prior to that, when I was in and out of treatment, there was some time where they didn't know where I was, and they were they had contacted a um a police officer to to file a bench warrant. And so I knew like they were gonna be looking for me. And at that, I I truly believed at that time it was best that uh they didn't know where I was or that uh I just went away and that maybe that would be better. And I know now that that wasn't better because we ended up taking off, and I think I was gone for a year, maybe a year and a half, where they were just waiting for a phone call from the police that they had found my body because I didn't talk to anybody for over a year, and we left and we um went to we just kind of I call it, I say we traveled, but uh we went to I mean we basically drove all across the country and went all over and ended up in New Orleans, and um the hotels got shittier and shittier. Um I was able to maintain a job for a little while working in a club, um, and then that ended. And uh it just like my life just became how do I make enough money just to get high today? Just to get by, basically. And um I was so disconnected, you know, not having talked to my friends or family for over a year. I I could see no way out. Like I was utterly hopeless. And um, we were just surviving. And there was times where we didn't have enough money for a hotel. And so you either slept in the car, or um, when the car was impounded, you slept on the streets or in abandoned buildings. Um, I remember not even having like a dollar to my name. I remember days where I was starving, um, digging for food out of the garbage can, um, pan handling on the streets. I mean, it got ugly. It got it, there's times where I have these flashbacks and it's almost like PTSD. Um, because I couldn't I had no idea that that's what would happen. And like I said, I couldn't see a way out. And so the times even when I would overdose before, it was like when I would be resuscitated, I remember thinking, fuck you, like why didn't you just let me die? Like I was at the point where I did not want to live, um, but I didn't have the balls to kill myself. And so it was just this um, I don't even know how to describe it, just this darkness that that I couldn't I couldn't get out of. And so in the end, what happened is we had both lost our jobs. Um, we had found, we had met these people that were stealing copper wire out of a Navy base. And in New Orleans, uh in Louisiana, the laws are a little shady there. And so we were you could take you could strip this copper wire and take it right to the recycler and you can make some decent money. And it's crazy because looking back, I mean, I remember at the time thinking, like, oh, this is it. We found a good uh source of money, like we can afford a hotel sometimes, like this is great, right? And like it's crazy to think like that's where my standards had got dropped down to. Like, like I thought like that was it, like we didn't need anything else. And so um he ended up getting my husband at the time, um, ended up getting arrested. And so uh there was a guy down there and he kind of scooped me up, and he kind of held me captive a little bit because I had no way to leave. He had uh towed my car and I they're taking the battery out, and so he pretty much held me captive in a hotel for a couple of weeks, and um at some point I finally realized like this was not good. My my husband had been arrested and I didn't know when he was gonna get out. I had no ID. My phone was just like Wi-Fi only, so I could only text on a text app. Um, no money. I was this guy, I was kind of depending on him, and I he was honestly scared the shit out of me. Um, and so I finally got to the point where I was like, I need to text my mom. Like, I don't know what to do here. Like, I gotta get the fuck out of here. Like, this is not, it was like I woke up suddenly and was like, this is not what I had envisioned would happen. Because honestly, I had thought when we had when we took off, I thought I had this fairy tale thinking, like, oh, we'll just leave and then we'll get clean. We won't be able to find dope anywhere, right? And we'll get clean. But everywhere we went, you know, my ex was looking for dope. And it it didn't matter where we were, he was gonna find it. And so um, you know, it was coming to that realization that like this isn't what I had thought would happen. And so I contacted my mom and was like, you know, can you come get me? And sh or you know, I said I have a hundred dollars uh because at the time the guy gave me a hundred bucks knowing I couldn't do anything with it. And um she was like, Yeah, you know, after your last trip across the country with your grandpa's truck, I'd prefer to fly down there and come get you. And so she came and uh flew down there. And I I think I had told the guy like she was just coming to help me set up a place to live or something because I it was kind of like I was worried he was gonna stop it. Like he wasn't he wasn't gonna let me go get my mom. And so he let me get my mom, and then right when she got there, we packed up all our stuff, you know, and he's like it was like sneaking out of this place to try and get home. And so she came and got me. We made it to San Antonio, Texas. Um, and there we got a hotel, and my car was impounded uh because you know, when you're using, you're not paying your bills. And uh so they impounded my car, and we ended up having to fly home. And I came home and I made it a few months um just with people helping get me to meetings, and I was back in Bonnie Lake, and those same feelings of you know, being inadequate were there, like uh there's no bus lines really in Bonnie Lake. I it was like this again, you know, I had I was grateful to be home, but I I still was missing like the hope. Like I was still thinking, like, how am I gonna get out of this? This like what and then it's like you have this realization of I'm 31 and what look at what my life has come to. And so um inevitably I got high again. I got high. Um, I ended up lying to my mom and saying I was going somewhere, and uh had somebody come get me, and I was gone for a few days, and I um came back to her house, and she was at work, and I remember this vividly too because it was the last time I got high. Um and so I had come home and I had had dope, and I knew she was coming home, but I was I was at that point again where I didn't care, and so I just kept getting high that day, and I ended up overdosing. And when I had come back from New Orleans, I gave my mom some Narcan and told her to hold on to it just in case. And so that day she she actually left work early and came home and found me unconscious in the bathroom and uh had to administer the Narcan and call uh 911 and they came and got me. And that was the last time I used. I uh I was at that point again of like, shit, this isn't just affecting me, right? Like, what if my mom, I'm an only child, you know, she's lost her husband, and what if she had lost me that day? Like I was I wasn't prepared to do that to my mom. So at that point, I was kind of like, maybe I could do this for somebody else. Um maybe I can get clean for more than just me because I I there was I I didn't really think a whole lot about myself, and so I ended up going to treatment again, and I went to treatment, and um that I when I was in treatment, I realized like I needed to, I was gonna have to get a divorce that that wasn't gonna work with both of us trying to maintain this relationship where we had both um gotten high together, and like I said, he was my co-signer and my enabler, and I knew if I had any chance at doing this, I was gonna have to be by myself. And so I went to treatment, and then after treatment, I moved into a recovery house. I was um fortunate enough to have people still in my life that were willing to pay rent for a few months for me to stay there, and um I I went back to a 12-step program and I uh I committed to going to meetings every day and going to outpatient, and I uh I just I went I would go to two or three meetings a day. It was all all that I knew how to do, and I slowly started getting some sense of hope back, and I slowly started getting not it wasn't just hope, but a little bit of confidence in myself that maybe maybe I could stay clean. And so as the days started to go by, it was like every day there was a little bit more confidence. Every day I had a little bit more hope, and so I would um I would just I just kept doing what they told me to do, which was go to meetings, and eventually I got a sponsor and um she helped me set goals, and so my first goal was like uh complete outpatient, right? And it's just these small little goals, but those were what I needed at the time because I I wouldn't have I I was 31 and I pretty much like had no idea how to live. I had been loaded since I was 14, and so uh, you know, even when I was able to maintain a job before and pay my bills, it was kind of like I was just I was faking it, is really what I felt like. Like I was just doing what I was supposed to do, but I really didn't know what it meant or how to how to do it fully functioning or completely clear-minded, right? And I had um, you know, I had I there was a lot of wreckage. I my grandfather's truck was just the tip of the iceberg. I have had debt that I had to repay, uh financial debt, um broken relationships with my friends and my family, um broken confidence really in myself. And so I was learning how to just basically how to live again is what it felt like. And so um, you know, I I completed outpatient and I had said to myself when I did that that I wanted to get a job. And the company that I had worked for through all of this was willing to hire me back as um in customer service. And so, and that was kind of like where I had started when I was 21. And um what that did is again gave me a little bit more confidence, like, okay, maybe I can I can have a job, I can pay the bills that I need to pay, I can um be accountable. Like that was a big thing for me. It's how do I be accountable through all of this? And so I um got a job, and then I I had moved with in with my dad, and I was paying rent there, and I was able to mend those relationships with my dad and my mom and my grandpa. Um, I was able to go to take my grandpa to the grocery store when he needed me to. I was able to take him to go get his hair cut. I still do that today. My grandpa just turned 93, and I still am able to go and take him to get his hair cut. Not right now with the quarantine thing. Um, but you know, I was able to make amends for some of the things that I had done, and that is definitely part of my recovery process. Um, it's part of the 12 steps, any 12-step uh that's on there is making amends. And how I do that today is a living amends. You know, I made direct amends to people where I felt that it was needed, but um, living amends for me just looks like uh I'm a functioning member of society, I show up for people, I am accountable, and um, you know, slowly I was able to put some time together. And it's like I talk about this and it seems like it was just yesterday, but tomorrow I'll have three years clean. And yeah, yeah, it's the um longest time I've ever been clean. I mean, I I was never able to get clean and stay clean and and not have it be something that was constantly nagging at me. Like uh I this the disease of addiction is something that it doesn't go away, but um you're able to find freedom and and there, and I'm not saying a 12-step program is for everybody, that's what worked for me, but there are ways to find freedom from it um and keep it at bay. And um it's like a it's it's it's a part of me, but it it's also like all of the stuff that I went through is it's there, but it's not it's not it's not like it's not relevant to me. It's it's not something that I focus on. Um I I believe I gain strength from it, but it's not something that like weighs down or that I'm ashamed of. Um whereas it was in the beginning. You know, in the beginning it was like, oh my gosh, like what am I how do I explain this to people? How do I get out of this? You know, and it's like I just tell my truth today. That's all I do. I just tell my truth. And honestly, let's like living through all of that chaos and hell, it's like I'm so grateful for what I have today, you know. I remember when I was first getting clean, I would be like, I'm so grateful I can just brush my teeth today, whenever I want. I could brush them five times a day if I want, right? Like, or you know, and then it was like, oh, I'm so grateful I can just go out to Taco Bell if I want to, right? Like, because I couldn't do those things. Um, you know, I'm grateful that I I have a bed with a pillow and it's warm in my house, right? That my fridge is full. It's today, it's even I feel like it's more easy to find these things that I'm grateful for because um I can all I have to do is think back to what it was like and where I was, right? So um I think that's it. I think that's all of it.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

I mean, wow. Um do you want to get a water? I have tons of questions. Do you want to um I have a drink right here? Okay, cool. Um, do you want to take a break and then come back, or do you want to just we can dive right into it?

SPEAKER_01 41:17

No, I'm okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

Okay, cool. Um wow, so parents split up. Um you find out you were adopted.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

No, they were adopted. They were adopted, they were adopted, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:33

Um your father comes out as gay, um your whole entire life, uh, or starting through high school, um, alcohol, drugs, um, and I had forgot that I was somewhat a part of that and getting you in trouble, but um hopefully it was uh uh a good gesture, not a negative gesture. But um in addition to that, um I think it was your stepfather who uh pass passes away from leukemia. Um and then uh through your journey of trying to as as all these pancakes start to keep piling up uh through your addictions, um you lose your grandpa's truck with your stuff, um and a couple of times you uh uh OD and finally uh it comes to an end where your mom finds you unconscious on the floor, and uh now today you're three years uh free. Um would you say the whole entire journey through that was uh constantly trying to not only hide the pain, but at the same time um figure out how to acknowledge the uncomfortable of that? Uh the journey through uh using Yeah, um Yeah, using uh alcohol or drugs, it it seems like you you begin to use it. And um and and I'm I'm asking you this because I I have never done uh alcohol or anything. Um but my assumption is with the alcohol or drugs when you use it, um it starts as like a social uh uh aspect. But then as life continues and all these things start to pile up, it becomes become a vice. Uh and it's hiding the vices or or using it as a vice to hide the things that we find difficult as humans to be able to address and acknowledge.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

Yeah, I'd say for me it it was a like an anesthetic. It removed it took the pain away. I didn't have to think about the pain, it numbed it out.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

Would you say some of the difficulty to uh what I heard in their And and I with with my story is nothing compared to yours. Um it you I I'm I'm sitting here and and only could imagine what you you went through and and in some sense it it's actually kinda helped me to uh you know understand perspective. Um, you know, when I have my times, um not to compare, but if if that makes sense. But um one of the things that I I I also see in there too, in these is um the social uncomfortableness of trying to find help or speak to people about these inner demons uh in a comfortable manner. Um how it would you say that kind of happened? And at the same time, how did you kind of overcome that? And and one of those examples would be like, I would say, like, if I went to go tell my dad or my mom something that I did and seek for help, it would be difficult. And I feel like that's like a social nor um thing we've kind of learned um that's made it difficult. And how did that kind of play a role in your uh your journey? And at the same time, uh how did you overcome that?

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Um so for me, I don't know that I always asked for help. I feel like um at the times where it was like I would go to treatment or um somebody, it was almost like somebody would find out. You know, like it wasn't necessarily that I I wanted the help or that I knew I needed the help, really. I mean, that's the um the the complex complexity of this disease is that it um distorts your reality in a sense that um it lies to you and makes you believe that you need these drugs, like I needed heroin to stay to function is what is what it told me. Um and that eventually when it starts taking things away from you, you know, your job, your house, your this, your that, your family, your friends, that's all you have. It was like I depended on heroin. Um, and that I couldn't, I couldn't imagine my life without it. And so at the times where it was like I I needed help, it people were figuring out what was happening with me, and they were stepping in. Um, and it wasn't until the very end, like I said, where it was like, you know, I had this awakening that I'm 31 years old. I have nothing, literally nothing, um, except clothes that people when I came back from New Orleans, I remember posting on Facebook, like, I don't have any clothes. Can anybody um help? And people that we went to high school with actually brought clothes to me. Um, and so like I really had nothing at that point, and so um, like I said, that and then realizing, oh my god, my mom could have found me dead. Um, and you know, what would she have done? That was kind of the catalyst at the end for me to realize I needed help. And honestly, I remember going to treatment that last time and thinking, I didn't really want to be there, but the truth was I didn't want to be homeless in Washington. It was snowing that year. And so, I mean, that's how fucked up it is, right? Like, I'm telling you how fucked up my life is, and I'm still thinking, like, well, I guess I'll go to treatment because it's snowing and I don't really want to be homeless here. And now my mom's saying, you can go to treatment or you can leave, right? And so it was like, I guess I'll go to treatment, and thank God I went. Thank God I went went and was able to get a bed the next day. That's not always the case with people that need do need help or decide they want help. I've I've found out like with addicts, um, there's a window of time where they could be like, Yes, I need help, you know, and unfortunately, there's not always a bed date for them to be able to get in right away. And, you know, they've changed their mind and don't want to go to treatment anymore. Um, for me, it was like God's perfect timing and everything. I was able, I went and got an assessment and I was checked in the next day. Granted, I didn't really want to be there, right? But um, you know, that that's what I needed. So I don't know if that answers your question.

SPEAKER_02 48:52

Yeah. If if if so, in there too, like the the struggle of other people reaching out to you, um, being a person inside, it it sounded like uh you started as what was just a simple social uh acceptance, but in the difficulty of what happened, it became it became it became more of a vice and actually something that you actually stood on um and actually uh made it difficult for you to find help. Um and so when others were trying to reach out to you uh to kind of do that, what what things kind of worked or what things would have worked, or do you feel like it's one of those things where as a family member or a friend, it's more uh ride through the wave and just be constant and be there until that help is available?

SPEAKER_01 49:46

Yeah, unfortunately, there's not a lot that people can do to help people that are struggling with a disease of addiction. Other than um, you know, I had a girlfriend that uh remained my friend, she was in recovery. Um, I mean, all you can do is just let them know that you love them no matter what. But uh, I mean, there's there's a lot of ways to enable addicts that people don't realize. Um, so you know, you can't give them money. Providing them even a place to live is enabling. So uh all really all you can do is let them know that you love them. And unfortunately, it is up to the person that's struggling to to come to the realization that they need help. And um for me, what that looks like for to help people, you know, if they they need to get to a meeting or they need to get to treatment or detox, you know, I'm more than willing to drive them. I know I've I've helped people get to detox or treatment and they left, you know, like you just all that's all you can do is just like if they're reaching out for help at that moment, you can help them, but um, you know, you just pray for the best. And that's what's so sad about this disease. It's like we don't get to, you don't know who's gonna make it, you don't get to decide who's gonna make it, and and only that person can decide. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:15

So so in the long run, uh the more difficult choices for those who love you or care about you, uh, those were actually the choices that actually helped you better understand. Um, because like you said, the enabling um and and just being there um and and never giving up for that person when they needed it is sound is sounding like what you're saying is best. Um, you know, don't be an enabler uh providing uh the money or the house or the physical aspects, but emotionally always be available and listen as opposed to uh push too hard on you know kind of ripping the band-aid open, let them kind of manage through that.

SPEAKER_01 51:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:01

Would you say, would you say also um being able to provide uh, you know, maybe somebody uh in that circle, uh, like you said, for example, somebody like yourself, um, to be able to talk to them, or even then I guess that's a that's a gesture that makes you kind of stand back in a sense when that's being presented.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

To talk to somebody that's struggling?

SPEAKER_02 52:26

Yeah, so like if for for example, if I had a friend that had that, um, or or in my situation, uh talking to somebody else who's lost a spouse or lost a mom, um, those conversations usually become a little bit easier than uh a best friend or a or my dad telling me, no, this is you know, help. You need help, if that makes sense. Um it's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:53

Yeah, yeah. Um definitely um uh uh addicts can relate to one another. Um that's part of why I I believe 12-step programs work, is that it's people that are sharing their experience, strength, and hope with you that have been through it. Because if other people, like I said, are telling me, oh um this isn't gonna end well, then I I if if they've never been through it, I'm not gonna believe them, right? I'm gonna believe the people that have been through it and that are telling me how they did it. And and that's really what helped me get clean was people telling me how they got clean, what they did to get clean and stay clean. And so I I just I knew um in the beginning, like if I could just trust what they're doing, just follow their suggestions, like if they could do it, then maybe I could do it.

SPEAKER_02 53:51

So providing so instead of reminding the individual uh that their current status and struggle, more so being there to help them, uh guide them um uh on ways to help. Um, but but like you said, not in a forceful way, but uh, you know, having those abilities to kind of uh share those avenues of help uh without saying go get help, but you know, here's some stuff. Um do you feel like um post coming out and now that you're you know three years uh sober and celebrating and and um do you feel that you ever heal, or do you feel like it it's it's a wound that you always are kind of mending and uh always assessing from day to day?

SPEAKER_01 54:42

So healing I would say is different, you know. I feel like once I got clean and started healing, uh before I got clean, I couldn't even talk about my stepdad dying. Like it, I couldn't even discuss it or process it. If I thought about it, I would cry immediately. And we're talking uh months and years later. And so once I got clean, I was able to start healing from that. And today, uh, and healing from the trauma that I had survived, really, right? Um so heal, I'm I would say, yes, healing is a process, but as far as um like dealing with my disease or the addiction, yes, that's something that I'm aware of every day. Every day I'm thinking, what am I doing for my recovery today? And that can just look like you know, listing the things that I'm grateful for. That sort of helps me um in my recovery process. Or it could just be talking to somebody on the phone, another addict, um, just to be there to listen. That's something that I do for my recovery. So the healing process I think is different than just I don't know if that's healing, um, other than just treating my disease, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 56:15

Yeah, I mean, and one thing that I'm I'm I'm hearing and I'm kind of getting at too is that um it's it's fine, it's becoming more productive for you uh to instead of put this stuff in a box or your past or these hard times, putting them in a box and putting them under the bed, instead keeping them out, keeping them uh um exemplified and addressing them daily. And even though some of them are hard to uh get to, they're not always happy. Um, but they are it's a positive action to be able to keep them addressed and and keep them uh and and actually build a foundation off of that success um is is you know what helps you conquer it.

SPEAKER_01 57:01

Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's like um I don't ever want to forget where I came from or what I went through because um you know that helps me just want strive for for more every day. And also it just helps me um be aware of you know what I'm capable of. And and that um even like all as shitty as things can be, you know, life's constantly throwing stuff at us, it's like you know, I'm able to look back and be like, well, I made it through that. Like if I can make it through that, then I can make it through anything. And so it's yeah, I definitely don't want to just put it in a box and shove it away. You know, this shit's on pictures on my wall, right? Like I want to see that every day. Um just to to help help me. I think it gives me strength. Um, and for me, it's like they're through all I call them lessons, I guess, in life. Through all of the lessons, as long as once I'm able to get through the other side, I'm always um a blessing on the other side.

SPEAKER_02 58:16

I I see I see the same thing kind of with uh death and stuff like that. And so that was you know kind of one of those reasons why I was bringing that up. So I'd asked about if you are somebody who's trying to give somebody help, um, it's it's a difficult situation because it they they have to be reciprocated, but you have to kind of remain conscious and understanding. And I think one of the things our society has a hard time with as well is um some of the cultural responses that we just kind of throw in. So for example, um you know, if if you go ask somebody for help, sometimes there's this negative gesture um because you kind of react to it. My question is is if if you're should you feel uncomfortable going to seek help and at the same time as a person receiving that, sometimes it's more important to uh try to overcome your feelings and frustrations and rather accept and acknowledge the effort that they just spent to ask for help as opposed to some of the frustrations or anger that one could occur selfishly, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 59:27

Um so as a person asking for help if they should be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 59:33

So so it I what what hap what uh one thing I I see sometimes too is is like um when you go ask for help, sometimes that thing is so big that uh either A there's that fear of that negative connotation that you have to kind of admit to, um, but then at the same time that you also have to accept their emotional reaction to you giving that. Um and so I guess what I'm saying by that is is the person asking, um, you know, should you fear that, or at the same time, is that something that you kind of have to build yourself up for? And at the same time, a person accepting that, the best way to kind of acknowledge that, and sometimes what I'm getting at is it seems like if if you're hearing somebody ask for help, even though their situation may be extreme, it's more important to acknowledge their effort to ask for help over the fact of the issue that there that has occurred.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:40

Yeah, I think well, I I think for the person asking for help, um, I think it's human nature that we try and um I I see it all the time on outside of addicts. People just try and hunker down and bear it, and I can get through it. Um, and even if the things are piling on top of them, it's like we have this innate nature to just say I'll I'll deal with it. I can I can figure it out. Um, and what I can say from my experience is that um asking for help is like completely freeing to just be able to say, I don't know what I'm doing. Can you please help me? Because now it's like, okay, all of a sudden I realize like I don't have to do it on my own. There's people that can help um for just things that have happened throughout my like in my recovery. Um, there's, you know, something comes up. I got served one time because of my debt, right? And so it was kind of scary because they came to my dad's house and gave my dad the paperwork. And my dad's like, oh my God, you know, he's freaking out. So then of course I'm freaking out. But I was able to call around, you know, people in the program and find somebody that had been through it. And they're like, okay, this is what you do, right? And so I'd say on the other side of that, as the person that someone is coming to ask for help, um you know, I think unfortunately, I believe that our society has become so rushed and so like, I just need to take care of me. I don't have time for anything else, you know, and I can't see beyond what's going on with me right now, today, um, that I can see how that would become kind of this like annoyance, not not annoyance, but like it's almost like I don't know what to do. So, you know, I'm frustrated with this, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:51

Inconvenience.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:52

Yeah, inconvenience. And so what I would say to those people though is like there are experts out there, right? Like I'm not an expert, but there are professionals and there are experts and there are resources and there are places to go for anything. I'm not just talking about addiction, mental health, grief and loss, whatever. And so I would say, you know, if you can just take that moment to validate them, the person asking for help, to um just say, I appreciate you coming. And if you can take the time to help them just find something or someone to help, you know, that's it. That's all you have to do. I think people think, oh my God, they're asking me for help. I have to fix this, right? Uh that's me, that's how I am. I want to fix everything. And so I could see if maybe that person that was being asked for help felt like, oh, this now it's on me. And that's not the case. Like you just need to seek or maybe help them find somebody that can help. If they're coming to you for help, that doesn't mean that they're directly asking you, hey, can you help me fix this? Right? They're just saying, like, I need help.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:06

Sometimes rebounding off that person uh as a validation that you know you're there and that uh and even maybe uh uh you don't have to find the help, but like you said, um follow through with them and help guide them, um, you know, check in on them. Hey, how are you doing? Uh, how'd you do with your help? Oh, by the way, I found some information here too. Would you like to go together? You know, those type of things, as a put like you said, as opposed to um writing people off. Because I I I myself see the same thing and and the death stuff. Um, when I go find help or or seek a friend uh to talk about that the same idea many times is they just write you off because they don't want to deal with it when that acknowledgement is what you're looking for a lot of the times of like, you know, yeah, you are in this situation, but I'm here and I just heard you, so you're not alone. And that that right there seems to be some of the strength sometimes around all of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:11

Right. Yeah, yeah, because it's not just you know, addiction, mental health, grief and loss, all of those things for the person dealing with them is very isolating and separating. And so it separates them from other people. And so if they're asking somebody for help and they're getting pushed away, like you're validating what they're feeling about themselves as opposed to validating them as a person. And a lot of times it's just like they just want to hear like um, it's okay, it's gonna be okay, or you know, I'm here for you, you're not alone. Um, like sometimes those are the the biggest things that you could say to somebody that's dealing with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

Um, so another avenue of dealing with these type of demons that you know uh we deal with in life um and keeping them on the surface is dating new people. Um how have you kind of handled that being openly uh about your past? Because um, as you know, I I have the same issue with me is that like you share this um with them too early and they seem to kind of get scared, but at the same time, this is not gonna go away. And this is I I see it as a strength for both of us, you know, less than you know, I I don't see it as baggage. I I see it more as you know a positivity. But how do you handle that with, you know, people that you're uh from friends to even relationships as you conquer?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:50

Honestly, um all of my friends uh the people that I've dated are in recovery. Um I I can't imagine dating somebody outside of recovery only because, like you just said, how am I gonna tell somebody, yeah, I used to shoot heroin? Like that's not normal. It it's my normal, right? It doesn't it doesn't even phase me um to say it because that's what I I lived through. But to tell somebody that that has never done heroin, um, but they're thinking, I I imagine they're thinking, oh my God, right? Um, and so I find comfort and solace with the people that are doing the same things that I'm doing. Granted, I I'm very open about um what I've been through. So everybody at my work knows social media, I'm not a secret about it, but there are people that don't want to be so open, and that's that's okay. That's that's what they choose. Some people have jobs where they can't afford for them to know what they've been through, right? Um, so I've just surrounded myself with people in the program that are doing the same things. And in the beginning, you know, that I had to be careful about who I surrounded myself with because um you just I couldn't afford to have anybody um mess up my focus or you know, anything like my family was were is worried anytime I'm dating somebody in the program because of what happened before, right? And so I've had to, I I had to be careful in the beginning. Now it's not so much like that in terms of, you know, am I if this person relapses, am I gonna relapse, right? Because I know where uh how this foundation that I built and how strong it is. But yeah, definitely um I've just surrounded myself with people in the program.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:54

So almost on the flip side, it because this is one thing that I I've I've I've shared as well, is that is I feel like it's it's it's good for us as a society to try to uh be less judgmental and more accepting um of perspective. Um, because what I one of the big lessons I'm learning as an individual from my lessons is that you know, some things that I've done through life or gone through through life, um on a you know, a prince and a princess type book, it comes out as negative, but in fact the way you live through it or the way you handle it actually makes it a positive story. So, for example, yes, you did have a a history of um drugs and alcohol, but the story here is that you have overcome, and like you said, and one of the reasons why I reached out to you is because of that positivity and and not so much positivity, but um the reality of that positivity, meaning um you're so real with the status and where you are and the past, um that it's it's you've inspired me um to get through my struggles, and as we've talked, my struggles haven't even don't even I feel uh come to a level close to yours. Um, but at the same time hearing you know what you've gone through and uh having that courage to overcome on your own uh inspires others. Have you have you seen that as well?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:31

Uh in terms of me inspiring others?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:35

Just by yeah, just by simply living.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:37

Yeah, and I think um, and don't get me wrong, because I I do want to say this. I could not have done this, like I could not be where I am today without the help of other people, without friends, without family, without people in the program. Um, I there's no way I would be able to accomplish what I've accomplished today without their support. But I have had people reach out to me and tell me that I I'm an inspiration. And I don't, I don't feel like I am. I'm just telling my truth. And, you know, going back to like society, unfortunately that not everybody does that today. And I'm not sure why. Maybe fear of being judged. Um, but because I had the experience with keeping secrets, I knew like I have to be an open book, I have to be honest about everything I'm going through because the second I start keeping secrets, it becomes easier and easier for me to keep those secrets, and I just can't risk that in my life today. And so I just made a choice to be open about where I am. And uh, you know, fortunately that has helped other people, and I'm grateful that it's able I'm able to help other people in that way.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:54

I love it. Um, last question is uh Brianna um uh her favorite quote uh that she created, uh, choose your attitude, create your life. Um through your journey and through everything, um how would you say that that kind of what that kind of quote means to you uh as you hear that? And then how you kind of apply that to where you are now from your past.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:22

Yeah, um, so choose your attitude, choose your life to me, it just means I'm gonna, you know, if I'm thinking about it every day when I wake up, I'm gonna wake up and I do do these things. Um I'm gonna wake up and I'm gonna think about what I'm grateful for. I'm going to um choose to be positive, honestly. I and I'm gonna choose to be happy, right? Um you've seen me on social media, I joke around a lot. Yeah, it's because like why do we want to be so serious, right? And I honestly I believe all of that stems from my gratitude. Um, I'm my gratitude just helps keep me positive and helps um keep in sight, like like I said, I've I've lived kind of through hell. And so like today the sun's out and it's warm outside. It's like, oh that's so great, right? Just like little things like that. I can hear my dog in the other room, she's sleeping and she's barking in her sleep. Like stuff like that. Like I just uh um I pay attention to those things and I take note of those things and um they keep me moving forward and it keeps things into perspective for me. And there's a cat just ran into our yard. I don't know whose cat that is, but it's cute. But yeah, just remain positive and staying grateful.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:57

Well, perfect. Um, I appreciate it. Yes. Um, thank you for uh taking the time uh to be on the show and and talking about this. Um, you know, uh like I said, you're an inspiration to me, and then being able to do this has helped inspire me through tough times and such. So um I'm excited to share another story of um, you know, how how uh you know simple it is in a when you stand back from it to overcome, but to also help people remember that um you know it is a struggle and that when you're in it, um, you know, it it is tough to come out, but at the same time, you are able to overcome and that you're not alone. That it's a it's a normal thing that people have issue or not issues, but uh complications or struggles in life, um, and some of them at different levels, you know, depending on your viewpoint, but um it's all you know uh we can. Um so I appreciate you being on. And um thank you so much for joining us. Remember to log on to chooseyourattitude.com or directly at podcast.chooseyourattitude.com. Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:13

Thanks for having me. Thank you for listening. To reach out to Nick and the Choose Your Attitude community, find us on social media at choose attitude create life. Share your attitude with the world with merch guaranteed to encourage at chooseyourattitude.com. Be sure to share us with friends, family, and colleagues. And while you're at it, leave us an uplifting review. We'd very much appreciate it. Check back for new episodes. Until next time, choose your attitude, create your life.