Risk Management All Stars

In this special episode of URMIA Matters, guest host, Craig McAllister, Assistant Vice President, Risk Management, University of Miami, interviews guests Courtney Davis, Executive Vice President, Global Education Practice Leader at Hub International, and Luke Figora, Vice President for Operations at Northwestern University, about their journey into risk management. Courtney and Luke share their cherished times as URMIA past presidents and conference co-chairs. Also, they both delve into how their risk management career path began and how it has since evolved. Additionally, Courtney and Luke divulge their favorite URMIA resource and how the connections they have made at URMIA shaped their love of volunteerism and vocation. Tune in to hear all about these two Risk Management All Stars! 

Show Notes (some links require a member login)

My URMIA Network - Discussion Board Communities
URMIA Core Competencies for Higher Education Risk Managers
RIMS Risk Manager of the Year Award
URMIA Annual Conference
Get Involved with URMIA

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Transcript

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URMIA Matters Podcast: S6E2 Transcript 

Jenny Whittington: [00:00:00] Hey there. Thanks for tuning in to URMIA Matters, a podcast about higher education, risk management, and insurance. Let's get to it. 

Craig McAllister: Hello and welcome to another URMIA Matters podcast. Today we are talking with two trailblazers, shaping the future of risk management and higher education. I'm Craig McAllister, Assistant Vice President of Risk Management at the University of Miami and the immediate past president of URMIA. With me today are Courtney Davis and Luke Figora, both Past Presidents of URMIA. Thanks for joining me today for the podcast.  

Luke Figora: Thanks, Craig,  

Courtney Davis: Yeah, thanks for having us.  

Craig McAllister: So, Courtney, let's talk, start with you. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, your current role?  

Courtney Davis: Yeah, absolutely. So, yes, Courtney Davis. I'm the Executive Vice President and Global Education Practice Leader for Hub International, but also the former Risk Manager as the Assistant Vice President of Risk [00:01:00] Management Resilience Planning for the University of Chicago. 

Craig McAllister: Thanks, Courtney. Luke?  

Luke Figora: Yeah, so my name's Luke Figora. I am currently the Vice President, Chief Operating Officer at Northwestern University. I have held a few different roles here at Northwestern and started my career in in risk management and insurance at Chubb Insurance Company, University of Chicago, and now at Northwestern. 

Craig McAllister: Great, thanks. Luke, can you talk to us about your professional journey and how did you come to work in higher education risk management? You said you started with Chubb, and what's your career path been like?  

Luke Figora: So, I started my career at Chubb Insurance Company on the underwriting side of the insurance business and really enjoyed that and had a, actually had a client at the time, University of Chicago, was actually a client of mine on the underwriting side. And through some kind of relationship building and discussions over the years there, there's an opportunity to move in-house and kinda move into a Director of Risk Management role at the university and kind of as part of some succession planning. For a long [00:02:00] time risk manager there. So, that was kind of my move into the higher ed side of things, Craig. And I spent about a little over five years at the University of Chicago, kind of in that role and, and some modifications to that before, uh, making a move over to Northwestern University.  

Craig McAllister: And Courtney, you made a stop at University of Chicago as well. Can you talk about your career path and how you've moved into your career position? 

Courtney Davis: Absolutely. So, I started off as an intern for an insurance brokerage and spent time going through each of the different niches and specialties and really took a liking to the education team. So, once I started day one at the insurance brokerage, I was in their education practice, kind of managing my own book of business and producing business and then transferred to another insurance brokerage firm where I was actually doing placement for casualty insurance for all the higher ed and K-12 clients that fell within that central zone. One of my clients at the time happened to be the University of Chicago. So, when Luke made his transition, we were all like, oh my [00:03:00] goodness, who's gonna go take that role? And about 10 minutes later he called me and said, you should apply for this job. So, you know, having dedicated my career with the insurance brokerage side and education, it was a natural transition, especially through my relationships that I've built through URMIA as well. So, I was at the University of Chicago for nine years and, you know, progressing with additional responsibilities across the enterprise. I mean, after that tenure with the university, it then kind of led to my role where I'm at now leading an education practice for another brokerage firm.  

Craig McAllister: Okay, thanks. You know, to start off with here, I guess, Courtney, if you could talk about an accomplishment during your higher education career that you're really proud of. 

Courtney Davis: Yeah. You know, there's many things that I could speak to from the perspective of, you know, transitioning through difficult insurance renewals. I know this year is no different from many, many successful implementations of some complicated and sophisticated insurance programs and structures. But I think one of the things I'm probably most proud of is something that's actually unrelated, or not traditionally related, to [00:04:00] the world of risk management. And that was kind of the role I played to help lead the institution through the COVID-19 response because it was such a community effort, and it really gave me and my colleagues in risk management an opportunity to showcase our capabilities beyond insurance or things where they may have traditionally seen the risk manager play. And there was really no right or wrong way to go about it, and no path of seeing how this was done before. And so, as trying of a time as that was, I think there were so many lessons learned that it really helped me to appreciate a broader skillset that I had as well as my colleagues in risk management had, and kind of led to some additional expansion of role and opportunities as well. 

Craig McAllister: You know, certainly the resiliency part of your title came forward there.  

Courtney Davis: Absolutely.  

Craig McAllister: And Luke, how about yourself? Is there an accomplishment that you're, you're really proud of, that you've made during your higher education career?  

Luke Figora: Yeah, I think, you know, again, a little bit similar to Courtney. I think, you know, COVID played an interesting role in my journey. You know, I think what's [00:05:00] been interesting for me is, you know, I, I've moved kind of further and further away from kind of the day-to-day insurance and risk management over the last, you know, 10 years. I still oversee that team and, and interact with kind of risk and compliance and safety. But, you know, over the last kind of 10 years at Northwestern, I've kind of not had this same job for more than about a two year span. So, I've kind of, each couple years, something happens that has led to a change, and you know, oftentimes that kind of something happening has had some degree of crisis or turmoil associated with it. And, and kind of as I've worked through that, you know, it's tended to land with kind of me playing a, a bigger role. And I think part of that is, you know, the ability to adapt and take on additional responsibility in areas where, you know, maybe you don't have the technical expertise, but you can navigate, you know, the institutional dynamics and, and work well with people. And so, kind of similar to, you know, as Courtney was [00:06:00] saying, with her career, I mean, you know, after I joined Northwestern, you know, I picked up some additional responsibility in areas like safety and procurements, you know, with some other organizational changes going on. 

Eventually, compliance and, and then COVID hit and there was really no one else to take the leadership role. And so, I kinda led the university through COVID and then kind of coming on the back end of that, picked up some additional responsibilities for safety and security and police and kind of a project management office and kind of some of our town gown stuff. And then, you know, from there we had some additional leadership turnover and took on facilities and it. And so, kind of over that time, like each couple years, I just pick up a chunk of new stuff and keep learning and, and kind of also kinda keep engaged with the organization. So, I think it's been really interesting to pick up all that stuff. And you know, with what's fun is you, there's still pieces of my job every day that touch back to kind of Risk Management 101 and, you know, and kind of, you know, some, my early time at the University of Chicago.  

Craig McAllister: Yeah, that [00:07:00] common theme, that risk management is good management, and it's that best practice on that. You both have that common theme of COVID and how the, you know, the risk management rose to the occasion during that time period. Was there areas that prior to COVID, but that URMIA helped prepare you for leading those charges?  

Courtney Davis: Absolutely. I think that's without a doubt. One, it's certainly within the community and having a resource of others to share insights and information with and just how we were going about things. But I also firmly believe that URMIA is kind of being proponent in creating a community to talk about enterprise risk management to really change the narrative about how we think about risk management was something that naturally transitioned into how you could think about, you know, approaching, you know, COVID as a response or really any other thing that really comes up at the institution as well. 

Luke Figora: Yeah, I think the, uh, it, it's certainly a lot of my change over the last 10 years or so. An element of that has been [00:08:00] some degree of soft skills, I would say, Craig, right? We all, we focus a lot on the, the technical stuff and a lot of what URMIA offers is, is furthering that and making sure that everyone's, you know, continually developing professionally across all kinds of technical and specific areas. But I think, you know, URMIA plays a unique role as well for many of us in terms of, you know, developing that network, softer skills, kind of broader leadership development. And I think, you know, both obviously, Courtney and I played a leadership role within URMIA for a period of time. And I think, you know, much of what you do, whether you're on a board or whether you act as president for a year or you lead, you know, a task force or committee or whatever it might be like, that does translate into, you know, how you kind of manage your career outside of URMIA as well. So, I think, you know, it's a great opportunity to, you know, get engaged to start developing some of those skills that you can then deploy, you know, at your home institution in a number of different ways.  

Courtney Davis: Yeah, I think that's exactly right. It adds to your [00:09:00] overall credibility and also helps to kind of validate some of the insights and things that you're sharing at your institution automatically just by having URMIA as one of the tools and your resources that you can touch into. 

Craig McAllister: Yeah. I certainly had the benefit of speaking at URMIA and doing presentations, which is that start of that path for those soft skills. And the more you can get in front of people and get in front of your peers especially, definitely helps enhance those skills. Courtney, when did you first get engaged with URMIA? 

Courtney Davis: So, my first conference attendance happened a year after I started at the first insurance brokerage. I pretty much took a month off of school and started that summer. So, it wasn't necessarily geared up to attend the annual conference in the fall. But that next year I was certainly at the conference attending, you know, the first-timer session and at the time there was a Risk Management 101. And over time, got more and more involved, whether it was starting with moderating a session to speaking [00:10:00] at a session, to joining one of the then communities or committees as well. Um, it just kind of increased over time, but certainly whether I was formally involved, definitely building the network and relationships very early on. So, at this point, I think I can say about 17, 18 years of having a relationship with URMIA, which sounds crazy to say.  

Craig McAllister: And Luke, what was your first URMIA experience?  

Luke Figora: Yeah, so, I mean, I got involved with URMIA basically right away after I joined the University of Chicago. So, I, I worked for a previous president of URMIA, Glenn Klinksiek, who was, you know, deeply involved, still, you know, kind of involved with URMIA. And, you know, one of the first things he suggested was, you know, you gotta get involved, gotta sign up. And so, shortly after I started, I think at University of Chicago. I went to the first conference, I think it was back in Pittsburgh at that time. But then, you know, shortly after that got involved on the professional development committee and then, you know, kind once you kind of show a willingness [00:11:00] to engage with URMIA, they don't let you go. And so, I think shortly after that I agreed to chair a task force, uh, focused on research institutions. And so, you know, kind of how does URMIA make sure it's providing the resources and the support that those large kinda research institutions may need. So, I chaired that for a year or so, and then ultimately, you know, went on the board and then, you know, was, was president for a year as well. So, you know, like Courtney, you have been, I think, I guess it's probably about year 15 or something now with some level of involvement with URMIA. And uh, obviously, my role has changed over the last.=, You know, five or six years, quite a bit, but still try to stay involved where I can and attended the conference last year, which was fun. So, uh, but yeah, I've been deeply involved for a while.  

Courtney Davis: He's forgetting about the time or two that we co-chaired the regional conference together in Chicago.  

Luke Figora: Oh, yeah.  

Courtney Davis: As well.  

Luke Figora: That's right. I co-chaired the regional with Courtney. I, I, I chaired an annual conference with Steve Bryant and Kathy [00:12:00] Hargis in Louisville. So, again, once you raise your hand, Craig, you never get to go away.  

Courtney Davis: And I started with the flash mob was probably my initial claim to fame. If you look on YouTube, you probably can still find a video of that.  

Craig McAllister: Yeah. I think the common theme is that we were all encouraged by our supervisors to get engaged with URMIA. You know, certainly, I started my higher ed career working with Allen Bova, another past president of URMIA. And between Allen and others that just encouraged to get up there and speak and, you know, get outside of your comfort zone. And that certainly, again, expands your opportunities both within URMIA, where once you're in, they get their hooks in you, it's tough to leave, but also overall in your professional career. With that, what have you found is your favorite URMIA resource or benefit during your time?  

Luke Figora: Well, I think, you know, for many of us at points in time, I mean the, you know, the URMIA, it's an ecosystem, right? It's not just one tool necessarily, but I think, you know, the [00:13:00] overall learning environment and, but particularly, you know, I think that the listserv is really, is really, really useful. I mean, I'm sure Courtney, at times you've used it too. I mean, I think, you know, all of us run into emergent issues at our, at our universities or institutions. Or again, you're working on a project that you've got maybe more lead time. But you know, I think the ability to kind of ping that broad listserv of URMIA members, which isn't just, you know, like-minded institutions, but you've got, you know, a variety of different colleges and universities as well as, you know, professional partners within the brokerage industry, the insurance carriers, service providers. You know, it's a pretty neat resource to be able to access so easily across a broad set of topics, right? That, that has been really useful to me over the years, you know, through different roles just in terms of needing that information, temperature check, things kind of challenge your own thinking. So, I know I've benefited from that quite a [00:14:00] bit over the years. 

Courtney Davis: Yeah, I think one resource specific to what I've seen in the library as well is the Core Competency. Just as you're thinking about your own career trajectory, if you're in a management role, thinking about your colleagues as well, just to tap in, 'cause it kind of, I think it does a really nice job of level setting of expectations and different skill sets you need too. Touching on what Luke mentioned about the soft or the essential skills as well. Beyond that, I love the listserv and other resource in the library too, but I'd be remiss. If I didn't acknowledge the time that we have of going to the conferences, not only because it gives us like it's like a family reunion once a year for the annual, and certainly with the regionals too, but then it's all these new topics and ideas and gives you a whole host of other things to keep you up at night after attending. And just gives you a different frame of mind to see it from other institutions lens or to also include that perspective of the affiliate members as well. 

Craig McAllister: I think we're all dating ourselves as refer to the connected community as the listserv, but you know, I can't change that either, [00:15:00] but I'll put that plug in for the connected community for our management. Well, I agree it's, it's all of it. It's that ecosystem that, that we work in that, whether it's the listserv and just, you know, looking at it daily to see that we may not have that problem today, but tomorrow our institutions could. I mean, so just looking to see what other concerns our peers are having. So, changing a little bit, both of you have won prestigious awards in your careers, and maybe Courtney, you could talk about that and also kind of where were you and what were you doing when you realized you'd won that award? I.  

Courtney Davis: Yeah, so the award I believe you're mentioning is the RIMS Risk Manager of the Year award, and I believe I won that in 2022. So, we were very much so in the, the midst of the pandemic at that time. And I can recall it was at home, gearing up for a trip, a nice getaway to Miami the next day. And it is a very involved process. It's probably one of the most difficult or [00:16:00] most complex process I've seen in terms of the amount of information they request. It's essentially like applying for college in terms of the essays that you have to respond to and the amount of information. So, it certainly meant a lot, especially since you're competing against a whole industry of professionals. But I was at home preparing for my trip and Nick Baumgartner of Aon was the individual who nominated me for that, and he gave me a call. And he is like, hey, I just wanted to give you an update on the award. 

And I was like, oh great. So, I was assuming I made it to the next one round. He's like, yeah, you won. I was like, oh, so what's the next step? He's like, no, you won. So, I was just so shocked 'cause I was not anticipating that. And my daughter was at home with me, and I start running around the house screaming with him on the phone and my mom, or my daughter's like, we won. We won. And she has. No idea what we were talking about. So, it was really a sweet moment to be able to share that with her, and especially at after such a trying time, because I think a lot of us sacrificed ourselves in more than one ways during the pandemic. So, it meant a lot to me, and certainly the team who I shared that with as [00:17:00] well. 

Craig McAllister: And Luke, similarly for you.  

Luke Figora: Yeah. You know, I'm getting, getting old at this point, Craig, but you know, I, so I don't know if I remember the exact kind of call that came back, but, you know, I think again, like I, I think it was 2018 or 2019 that I, I won it. But you know, I guess when I think back a little bit, again, that was prior to crises, right? The last set of crises that we've had to deal with. And, you know, prior to COVID and everything else. And yeah, I think much of what I, you know, as Courtney said, it's the long process and you've gotta have various people, you know, kind of support you throughout it. And we, I actually had some faculty members here at the university, you know, kind of write some things about pieces that I had been working with them on and, you know, again, kinda thinking back, you know, at that point it was, I go back to, it was like a lot of just core kinda Risk Management 101. Right? It was, you know, a lot of what I was trying to do at that time was really focused on, you know, a pretty [00:18:00] significant evolving of our insurance program at the university. It was trying to move forward some academic programs that had a substantial amount of risk in kind of, you know, helping our academic community think about that in a different way. And so, you know, it was kind of a lot of what I think was part of mine was that the kind of institutional movement and institutional support. And so, it was kind of like a, you know, a pretty rewarding. Experience, and I think at the time that I probably heard about it, we had like started to move into other, there was like pre-COVID, but other crises at the university. 

And so, again, it was kind of like a, it was rewarding from that perspective of like, no, the stuff that you're doing here in higher education, you know, resonates with people outside of just our industry. Right? Because I think that, as Courtney said, is one of the unique things about the RIMS award is, you know, I think, you know, I was one of the first people to win that award kind of from higher ed. And ay, maybe the first, I can't remember. But, you know, so it was kind of a, you know, like, [00:19:00] oh, we are a really complicated industry, and the rest of the kind of insurance and risk management industry see that. So, I think that was rewarding. When I read this question, Craig, I actually was thinking a little bit about the DRM award with URMIA. And that was one where I was dealing with a crisis, and I couldn't make it to things. And so, people tricked me and, you know, I think I was, they said I had to get on a conference call for something having to do with Courtney or something like that. And so, I jumped on a call and then that was like all my old URMIA friends saying that I was a, you know, DRM recipient. So, that was a, I thought that's what we were actually talking about here. So, that was a more fun story, I think.  

Courtney Davis: Sorry, I got you.  

Craig McAllister: And that's why I wanted to throw that out there, 'cause you both have been awarded so much, but especially with, you know, the Nobel Prize in risk management. So.  

Courtney Davis: That's hilarious.  

Craig McAllister: What piece of advice would you give to others about having a successful career in higher education risk management? 

Luke Figora: Well, I know I've given this piece of advice to a lot of people over the years. You know, I still think it's true and I think one of [00:20:00] the unique things about risk, you know, kind of early stage career risk management is in-house, you know, kind of internal risk management is that, I think to do that job well, you really do have to know the institution kind of in and out. Like I think you're just focused on an insurance program or whatever it might be, you know, I think you're kinda missing the boat a little bit. And so, you know, I think that certainly has been part of what's helped me over the years, you know, take on additional responsibility is, I think I knew the institution exceedingly well, right? From not just kind of my own risk management lens, but you know, the academic side of the house, the research, athletics, like all these things that we do. You know, if you're really doing kind of risk management well, and if you're kind of fully engaged in that role, you really need to be cognizant of every element of the organization. 

And I think that, you know, if you really dive into that and spend time that [00:21:00] does position you really well to take on additional roles in the university, which Courtney, you probably can talk about her role as well. But you know, I think when these opportunities come up to take on additional responsibility, someone that has strong institutional knowledge and understanding of kind of the needs of the various aspects of the organization. People that have good relationships with others at the university, like you're kind of in a unique position. And in many ways, like I think more so than a lot of the other kind of central service type departments within academia. So, yeah, I always say that to people is, you know, when you're in those early stages, spend time learning every aspect of the universe you can, even if it's not directly applicable to what you're working on, you know, in that given day. I think it's just important that you kind of understand not just how your insurance program works, but how that intersects with the rest of how the institution manages finance, for example. And that prepares you well for downstream. 

Courtney Davis: Yeah, I would certainly echo what he's saying [00:22:00] and it ties into one of my two risk management philosophies and to know that risk managers are supposed to be the office of Know, K-N-O-W, not the office of No. So, consider yourself as a campus partner to help you know, whoever it is you're working with achieve their mission, whether it's academic research, medical athletics, et cetera. And I think you put yourself in a good foot forward. Also, just always raise your hand and say, yes, I think we can insert ourselves and see a role for risk management in any given conversation. So, trying to find ways to have a seat at the table, even if it's simply taking notes to begin with. It just cues you into the conversation, so that you're always seen as a resource so that people can be proactive in terms of their engagement with you. And then of course, utilize the network that you have in volunteering given time, because I think you can learn a lot more quicker by utilizing resources such as URMIA and picking up the phone and, and learning from some of those who have been around for a while. I think in addition to being a community that we share information and resources, we also share times [00:23:00] 'cause we wanna see people stay around and there's always opportunities at other institutions. So, consider yourself as the overall brand and build those relationships. Because you know, my opportunity coming to the risk management side came through Luke, who I already had a relationship with to be an example.  

Craig McAllister: Yeah. Thank you. I, I agree. You know, the engagement, the understanding, and the relationships, you know, those soft skills that go with that really to develop across the institution. I don't wanna use the word mistake, but what's one lesson that you learned the most from that maybe, uh, started off as adverse and you were able to flip that to something positive?  

Courtney Davis: I think this is just a general lesson learned of whether you're in risk management or brokerage side is, you know, always being cautious about what you're putting in writing and when you should pick up the phone and who you should include can be the nexus of a lot of breakdowns, but also a lot of breakthroughs as well. It may seem minor, but I think some of the challenges I faced 'cause I didn't include the right person in the discussion or move too quickly or put [00:24:00] something in writing that should have been a conversation. It seems very basic, but just always being mindful of that, especially in today's environment. I think it's just a good lesson to learn very early and not later on in, in your career. 

Luke Figora: Yeah, I think, you know, similar, a little bit similar, Craig, I would say not a specific incident necessarily, but I think just the broader importance of communication in what we do. And I think, again, as you evolve and become more senior in your career and take on additional responsibility, you know, there's probably points where you feel like, you know what, it's my decision to make and I'm gonna make it. And, you know, a lot of the impact of things kind of result in how you communicate. And, you know, I think one piece that, you know, I've spent a lot of time thinking about the last couple years is we've gone through kind of managing through situations. You know, I do think many of us have the tendency to wanna get things done and then kind of communicated, or you know, get it all figured out and then kind of roll it out. And what certainly [00:25:00] can happen is in a vacuum of communication, there's an assumption that you're doing nothing, right? Or you're not thinking about something or you're not taking it as seriously as others want you to. And so, I think there's also this like, you know, things don't have to be a hundred percent perfect or, you know, figured out before you kind of start rolling out concepts or kind of bringing people into the loop on it. So, I think again, just that importance of, as Courtney said, like, you know, communication even in the smallest of situations can kind of trip you up on something where it doesn't really need to.  

Craig McAllister: I mean, communication is, is always key, whether it's getting somebody to pick up the phone or, you know, you said communicating what you're actually doing along the process before it's completed. Is there anything else you'd like to share with our audience today?  

Courtney Davis: I would just say in general, just hang in there. I know it's very challenging times, whether we're talking about the things that we're dealing with personally or professionally. I think this is a, a great industry and really, I think, I speak for Luke and myself that we've built a career out of it and it's something that I really love and enjoy doing. So, [00:26:00] certainly keep pushing forward despite, you know, some of the challenges that we may be facing.  

Luke Figora: Yeah, I think, yeah, again, both the higher ed and, and insurance are resilient industries, you know, but also go through cycles. And we're probably in one of those cycles right now for both. And so, you know, again, I think, but this is also the time where, you know, in kind of chaos, you know, people can make impact, right? And so, I think, you know, I would say, yeah, for our URMIA community to stay focused, you know, and stay engaged and use that as an opportunity to become even more influential at your organizations.  

Craig McAllister: Okay, thank you. So, with that, I would like to thank our listeners for tuning in today, and I would also like to thank Courtney and Luke for their thoughts and insights into URMIA. And that's the end of another URMIA Matters podcast. Thanks everyone. 

Narrator: You've been listening to URMIA Matters. You can find more information about URMIA at www.urmia.org. For more information about this [00:27:00] episode, check out the show notes available to URMIA members in the URMIA Network library.