Ep. 323 Man to man: What is it? Why do it? part 1 of 2 Richard Spann (re-release)

In this reprise episode, former Kansas Communities Director Richard Spann shares insights on the how's and why's of one-to-one discipleship. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

And he started to share some stories about people that he knew that he had committed some time to, and he couldn't find one at a certain conference, so he gave up a responsibility that he had to meet with that one individual. And I thought, that's crazy. Why would he do that? And then Jim told the same story about two months later. He tended to do that. And I thought, well, I can see how that individual was important to him. And if he could get that individual straightened away, maybe that was worthwhile. Third time he told the story, I thought, you know, that's the key. If he could minister to that individual, that individual could have a ministry of his own. That was really a key thing to do.

David Dennis 0:48

The incredible worth of the individual. Man to man. What is it and why do it? Hi, I'm David Dennis with the Kansas Communities Ministry with the Navigators. Thank you so much for joining us today. This is the fifth of six podcasts featuring Dr. Richard Spann, our speaker at the 2023 Spiriting Men's Retreat in Heston, Kansas. These messages are also available free on video on our website at kansasnavs.org forward slash media. Today Richard shares with us some key principles in investing in the lives of individuals for the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Well, today we're going to look at the whole subject of man-to-man. And I'll put that first one up there. And we're going to look at six items here: man-to-man. Man-to-man, what is it? Man-to-man, why do it? Man-to-man, a partnership with God, a promise from God, a plan from God, and finally a purpose from God. And in man-to-man, what is it? I would call it a relationship. A relationship in which two individuals share their life stories, the word and prayer, over a period of time. Now, if anybody would have contacted me before I ever really experienced a man, a man asked me what it was, I thought it would be a wrestling match, or two people in a cage fighting it out. But it's a relationship. My first introduction to this was at a uh a time when we were at Jim Fisher's house. Some of you remember Jim. I'd taken memorized the word for about three months, and uh I'd been there with four or five other people, and they're having a get together at his house for Christmas, and Jim, fellow by the name of Jim Morris, came. I'd never met Jim before, but Jim struck up a conversation with myself and my wife, and he asked about uh, you know, what I did and if I was enjoying memorize the word and what verses I really liked and uh how I was doing and work and relationship with the Lord, and said, you know, I like to get together sometimes with people for for lunch. Would you be interested in having lunch? I said, sure. So we met uh the next week, and he said, Mind if I pray for the meal, which he did, and uh asked me again about uh my life story a little bit and again uh what was important to me and the word. And he shared some stories about his life, how he came to know Christ and how the word was important to him, and prayer was important to him, and people were important to him. He asked me a little bit about my uh sharing the gospel, how I followed up these people. I had no idea what follow-up was. I thought it was somebody tracking you or something. Uh I had no idea what it was. And so I related to him what I was doing, give him a Bible and then send him a letter. And he said, Well, I really found it better to just give them a Gospel of John and they'll uh beginning in Christ with five verses. Then you make contact with them a day or two later and arrange to meet them weekly. That thought had never really occurred to me. I still remember that to this day. And that's and that was 50 years ago or more that I met Jim. I really shared some ideas that impacted my life. And he started to share some stories about people that he knew that that uh he had committed some time to, and he couldn't find one at a certain conference, so he gave up a responsibility that he had to meet with that one individual. And I thought, that's crazy. Why would he do that? And then Jim told the same story about two months later. He tended to do that. And uh I thought, well, I can see how that individual was important to him, and if he could get that individual straightened away, maybe that was worthwhile. Third time he told the story, I thought, you know, that's the key. If he could minister to that individual, that individual could have a ministry of his own. That was really a key thing to do. So I think from Jim, and we met for a number of months, perhaps nine months weekly, and I learned the value of the individual, the worth of the individual. I think that's what the navigators taught me through Jim, to learn the worth of the individual. And I think the second thing I learned was the power of the word of God, getting the word of God inside. Already started to do that at that time, but I think it made a greater impact just in the life of Jim. I could really see these two things in his life. And I think that's really what he communicated among others. Um a relationship, and we began to meet and we shared our life together. And gradually more of what he was began to uh become a part of my life. And the true statement that I've come to appreciate over the years is discipleship is caught rather than it's taught. Caught rather than taught. You pick it up from an individual. It's like DNA, which is transferred, a relationship in which not only information, but attitudes, character, uh, different aspects of our life are transmitted to another individual. Man-to-man, why do it? Um, people need specific individual attention. Some of you have uh a couple of kids, some three or four. Uh can you imagine what your family would be like if you were to meet all three or four kids, sit them down once a day, and give them some general instructions on behavior, cleaning their room, schoolwork, etc. That would be your only communication with them. We don't do that. We're individuals. They have individual capacities, individual problems, individual relationships, individual ways of looking at life, individual ways of relating to others. So we treat them as individuals. We had two daughters which are opposite poles in some respects. So we had to deal with them individually. We would not think of just lumping them into a group and dealing with them as a whole family. People are individuals. Um in my practice, uh I saw about maybe 20, sometimes more than that, patients in the office per day. Uh, it would have saved time for me to have scheduled them all at 8 o'clock in the morning or 8:30, and sit them down and give them a lecture on uh health, on exercise, on things to do, don't drink smoke or chew, or date girls to do, and that sort of thing. I could have given them a lot of information, it would save my time, and I could send them a bill, and they would be gigantically disturbed, wouldn't they? Um but you know, isn't that what we do sometimes in our churches and even in our Sunday school classes? We just hit a general audience with general information and trust that that will meet the needs of everyone, and it doesn't. Disciples are the same way. People need individual attention. One of these is for progress toward faith. And I remember a partner that joined us years ago, and he was interested in uh religion, interested in spiritual values, and I suggested, well, let's look at uh growing in Christ. It was a 13-week study. Can fill this page out, memorize a verse per week. So we did that. And, you know, he just progressed just on schedule. Thirteen weeks later, he said, I'm ready to commit my life to Christ, and he did. He's been a growing, growing Christian and disciple since that time. But that doesn't work with everyone. I have uh remembered others, one patient in particular, who didn't really uh have any interest looking at any book at all, didn't have any interest in going with me anywhere. But he became a friend of mine and we would meet periodically. But one day I said, uh, would you like to look at the Bible together? He said, Oh, the Bible. I'd love to look at the Bible because our church doesn't look at the Bible. I did not want to meet at his office, didn't want to meet at mine. At that time I was working at a little clinic called World Impact Clinic. So during noon, when their office staff was off, we would meet there. I'd pick up a sandwich at a place on the way and he'd bring a sandwich and we'd meet there for about an hour. We met every week for about two years, looking at the Gospel of John, just very slow, about a paragraph at a time. And finally one day he looked at me and he said, Before we begin, let me ask you a question. I said, Sure. He said, Do you believe that Jesus did everything that needs to be done to make me right with God? And I said, I believe that. He said, Well, I didn't used to believe that, but I believe that now. And he says, I'm trying to figure out why I didn't believe that. You think it could have been pride? And I said, Yeah, it could have been pride. And he said, You know, my wife didn't believe that. Do you think I should pray for her? I said, I think you should pray for her. So he really transferred his trust to Christ slowly over a two-year period of time. Another individual that uh that I talked with was a patient that he came to the Lord uh after a few discussions. He was a British man. He grew up in England, wife was British, and they'd grown up during the World War II. His wife resisted faith because of her belief there was no God. There was no God because of the amount of destruction she had seen during the bombings, turned away from God entirely. But we prayed for her. We thought, how how can we handle that sort of a situation? So Bev and I were going out to Glen Erie that summer, and we thought, well, let's take him along with us. Let's take him along. So he was a believer, she was anti-God, but they went with us. They went with us during that week. During that week, they saw 150 people who are followers of Christ relate to one another, share with one another, love one another. And at the end of that week, she stood up and she said, I now believe there is a God because I can see it in your midst because of your love for one another. And I think sometimes we neglect the fact we share our word, we share our lives, but we forget the fact of the body of Christ. And I think that began to change the way we would impact individuals. We included that opportunity as a way of impacting the lives of people, and some people need that. And she transferred her trust to Christ during that week. So we also need a specific individual attention for progress in faith. Not everybody progresses the same way. They all need the word of God, they all need prayer, they all need people, but sometimes they don't respond as well. It's best to get the word of God in them as soon as you can, and I love to do that. The Growing Christ book with five verses or the 13-week is ideal. Some don't respond to that, some are not willing to really get the word into their life. Whatever they will give me in terms of their willingness to be faithful to, I'll take if they're willing to do that. Read with me, study with me, look at the word of God. You have to adapt that to where they are. Some move slowly, some move more quickly. And I have found that people need specific individual attention for protection. And I I found this out with an individual. Like like we like physical life, the most dangerous times of physical life are just before birth and just after birth. Those are the most vulnerable. And I think the same is true spiritually. It's a young man who's an attorney who I'd been meeting with and sharing with. We'd been out to his farm in Kingman and finished a time or two. We'd had lunch a number of times, talked about the gospel. He's very close to the gospel. I'd taken to a prayer breakfast, and um there it was said, well, you need to get people in some groups. And there was a group starting with a friend of mine. I knew him well, and I knew he had some of the best groups in town. I thought, well, maybe, maybe what this person needs is a group. So I dropped him off at that group, went with him, and encouraged him to be a part of that, but never really did hold. He needed my specific individual attention, and I didn't realize that. But Satan sent along one of his workers, who is a gal involved in the way, which is a very close counterfeit of Christianity, sucked him off. He became a part of that for years and years, and uh just to my knowledge, it's never really turned to Christ. Aware of that, another individual that had just come to the Lord and I were meeting. I was downtown at a meeting in Wichita. I was late to my meeting, and I called him. I said, I'll be there in a few minutes. And uh he he told me on the phone, he says, That's all right. I've met a couple of fellas here that came to the door. They're really nice. They've got some information for me, some books. We're looking at those. It's kind of interesting. And uh I said, Well, you tell them this. You tell them, of course I knew there was Jehovah's Witness. I said, Tell them that the individual who led you to the Lord will be right there. Tell them to wait for me. And then I hung up and I said, Lord, get rid of those guys. And so uh I I arrived there at their home. He lived actually about a couple blocks from First E Free. I got there about 15 minutes later, and I said, Well, where are those guys? He says, Well, I told them what you said, and they looked at one another and said, We have to be going now. So I think the Lord did that. He got rid of them, protect. But they need, you can't protect people unless you know them individually and you're close to them. And then for preparation for a multiplying ministry. In our church, I and others have taught with others or individually, probably a dozen classes on evangelism and discipleship. The only ones that I know of that are really involved in evangelism, Bible studies, and multiplying ministries are those that my wife and I, or I individually have spent individual time with. The others, I really don't have any evidence that they are. It's only those that your life impacts individually that continue to make a difference for the gospel. And we had the pleasure over about 12, 15 years of doing home Bible studies in our home and others, training others in what that was like and how to share the gospel through the word of John and trust the Lord to bring people to him. I think most of those have moved to Texas. There's about five or six in Texas. There's one in Chinoot, there's some in Missouri and other places. But um this is what we depend upon is the individual work within. So man to man, why do it? It's a excuse me, secondly, a partnership with God. And we think about a partnership with God, we look at Deuteronomy 32.9, for the Lord's portion is his people, Jacob, his allotted inheritance. And then in Isaiah 43, 1, but now this is what the Lord says: He who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel. That's a fascinating verse. We're all created as Jacobs, one who are one who want to help out God, want to do our own thing, want to, we have to be corralled by God and changed by God. Israel basically means ruled by God. That's what Israel means. We need to be changed from Jacob's into Israel. But the Lord says in Isaiah 43, 4, since you're precious and honored in my sight, and because I love you, I will give men in exchange for you, and people in exchange for your life. So this is the partnership that God has given us, and we have that partnership by man-to-man ministry. And we have a promise from God that He's given us in Isaiah 43, 4 through 6. Since you're precious and honored in my sight, because I love you, I will give men in exchange for you, people in exchange for your life. Do not be afraid, for I'm with you. I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west. I will say to the north, give them up to the south, do not hold them back. Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth. Now the navigators, as I mentioned before, loved Isaiah. They loved promises from God in Isaiah. This is one of the promises that they took. Lord Sanay, Das Trotman, and others used to go out into the hills around Los Angeles. They'd go up there at five o'clock in the morning, and they would take the map of the world, and they would literally put their finger on country by country and pray for them and claim this promise. They did that for years. And this continued as a part of their ministry. It was one of the foundations of their ministry. I was reading this book, which is mentioned at the bottom, Integrity of Heart and Skillful Hand, written by Betty Lee Skinner. It's a book about Lauren Sanding. And he mentions the effect of the promise of God. In 1995, interviewed at Glenary in 1995, Lauren shared his singular experience, both the symbol and summary of 62 years of navigator history at that point. Says in March, I took 24 Asian navigator leaders up to Dawson's grave. I read them that promise and said, Here you are. I had nothing to do with your coming to know the Lord and discipling you or training you. But you're here because God told me and told Daws before me that you would be here. And yesterday morning we had 45 of our leaders from all around the world up there. And I told them too. I said, Now say what you want. There's the promise. That's when we claimed it, and here you are. God does fulfill his promises. And this is one statement at one time, but I think many times we have had the opportunity of having these people here in our country. We've had them from Indonesia. We have Jim Truex here, one of the navigator leaders from Indonesia, that God has used. We've had people from Japan, we've had people from Mongolia, we've had them from uh India, a part of this ministry that have come and blessed us, encouraged us, and taught us over the years. And it dates back to that promise that God has given us of man-to-man, man-to-man ministry. Not only is given a promise, but he's given us a plan. And this plan we see in the scriptures, and this plan is prayer, where the Lord said to Peter, says, Simon, Simon, Satan is asked to have you. And that you was plural, referred not only to Peter, but to all the disciples. Satan is asked to have you, but I prayed for you that your faith would not fail. Wouldn't you have returned, strengthen your brothers? His faith did not fail, his courage failed, but his faith did not. So this is prayer in Jesus' interaction with Peter. The example in Matthew 14, 25 through 32, is the Lord walking on water and Peter said, Lord, if that's you, invite me to come out to you on the water. And he did, walked out on the water, but then he started looking at the waves rather than the water and started to sink. They said, Lord, help me. That's the shortest prayer in the Bible, by example. And I think if he would prayed the way some of us pray, he'd been 50 feet under before he had gotten around to the point. But sometimes a very brief prayer is very effective. Lord help me. And the Lord helped him, lifted him up, and it said that Peter walked back. It didn't say that the Lord carried him back, but he walked back. That's the example that the Lord was giving. And so the plan from God is that we interact with others with prayer, with example, with teaching. The teaching in Matthew 17, 24 through 27 was the teaching where you do not take offense from others nor do you offend them. These were the People that asked, Does your master pay the temple tax? And Jesus said, The sons of the king pay the tax. It says, But so that we will not offend them. Go fishing, you'll find a coin, pay your tax and mine. So this is an example of teaching that the Lord had for Peter. Encouragement. Matthew 16, 17. Blessed are you. But the Father which is in heaven has revealed this to you. So encouragement. And finally, restore. Get behind me, you don't have a thing in mind the things of God, but things of man.

David Dennis 22:41

Peter's faith did not fail because of Jesus' personal prayer for him. His courage may have failed, but his faith did not. Individual attention, prolonged intentional personal interaction, prayer, example, encouragement, restoration. These are the ways God is calling us to make disciples. You know, this is such helpful information, isn't it? Is God calling you today to invest in someone else? Perhaps your child, your coworker, maybe someone at church. Pray about this and be open to who the Lord leads you to. Be aware of that person whom the Lord places in your path. Well, join us next time for more encouragement about man-to-man investing right here on Making Disciples Naturally.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

The views expressed on this podcast are those of the speakers and are not necessarily the views of the navigators or the Kansas Communities Ministry. Thank you for listening.