Ep. 325 Where do I begin? Part 1 of 3 Roundtable with Elmo Joseph, Art Sauder, Ryan Henderson, David Dennis

Where do I begin when I want to start helping someone else grow spiritually? What resources are available? What is disciplemaking all about? These are some very practical and Biblical ideas presented by a round table of four members of the Kansas Communities Ministry Team. 

Navigator (c) Resource "Seven tips for starting a discipleship relationship"

Transcript

Art Sauder 0:02

You know, the idea of meeting people where they are and then focusing on appropriate ways to to really take solid steps forward. In other words, if we're going to spend time together, how do we invest in things that are worthwhile and help people to know Jesus, walk with him, and have a heart to share that with others around us?

David Dennis 0:28

What can we do to invest in that which is truly important? Hi, I'm David Dennis with the Kansas Communities Ministry with the Navigators. Thank you so much for joining us today on Making Disciples Naturally, where we believe that making disciples should be a natural part of every believer's walk. Have you wanted to help someone grow in their walk with the Lord but didn't know where to start? Today we are beginning a three-part series tackling some practical issues of how to get started investing in others. We recently held a roundtable discussion with three veteran disciple makers, each respected in the Kansas communities ministry. Elmo Joseph, retired living in Oklahoma, Art Stodd, successful businessman and great band, and Ryan Henderson, a younger, very busy father of four, and busy in the workplace in the Wichita area. We have a roundtable discussion today that we're going to be addressing the issue of how do we get started in a discipling relationship? How do we get started discipling someone? So as we begin, I'd just like each of the people on the on the round table to kind of briefly introduce themselves, maybe just a one-minute thumbnail sketch, what you do, maybe your relationship to the navigators or discipling kind of your experience. We'll start with Mr. Elmo Joseph.

Elmo Joseph 1:48

Yes, I'm retired and I've been with the navigators involved with the ministry now for close to 50 years.

David Dennis 1:57

And you're you're busy, you have a lot of practical experience in uh pouring in the spiritual lives of people. Art, tell us about you, Art Sauder.

Art Sauder 2:06

Yes, Art Sauder I'm working and I'm a marketplace guy. I grew up with really no spiritual heritage, but a year out of college, started following Christ to a series of events, but was really fortunate that about four months after that, a guy that was being discipled by a navigator uh picked me up and uh teaching me how to get into the word and to be a self-treater and really uh exposed me to a lot of activities and helped me get grounded. And I've just really been fortunate that God called me to follow him and that um through that discipline and over the years with the navigators has really been significant and just building into my walk and equipping me to interact with others, and so it's been been a real blessing to me.

David Dennis 3:05

Very good, thank you. And Mr. Ryan Henderson, tell us about yourself.

Ryan Henderson 3:09

Howdy, yeah. My name is Ryan Henderson. I became a believer when I was 19 years old, right before I went to college. When I got into college, I was seeking to figure out what it looked like to walk with the Lord and ended up in a small group Bible study with a handful of college guys. And uh the leader of that group, he asked me if I wanted to meet one-on-one with him. And uh he taught me how to have a quiet time, how to memorize verses, how to pray together, how to have accountability and uh encourage one another and walking with the Lord. And that uh encounter with him really changed my life and my outlook on what it what it looked like and what it meant to be a follower of Jesus. And um from there I ended up getting in touch with the navigators um and this Kansas Communities group and uh met with a man from that that helped me continue to grow and encourage me in walking with the Lord. And it's uh it's been a huge blessing in my life to to be a part of that and to continue that on and uh follow that same model and to encourage other people in God's word and growing.

David Dennis 4:17

Thank you, Ryan. That's great. My name is David Dennis, and I was uh privileged to be involved with the navigators, being discipled by a man in the late 1970s, and um just had no idea of what discipleship was about in terms of how it's done until I was the recipient of that and really changed my life, changed my outlook and priorities. I became a believer at age 10, but really had no concept of the um idea of growing spiritually per se in an intentional way. So a man took interest in me to uh to pour into my life in the late 1970s, and I've been involved uh with that then ever since. So I really praise the Lord for that. The navigators have a series of uh discipleship tools that they publish on their website, and I ran across one that's called Seven Tips for Starting a Discipleship Relationship. And I thought it might be helpful for people who are considering getting started and pouring into other people's lives, starting a discipling relationship, kind of to focus on some practical aspects of that and how do we get started doing that? So, in their um handout, which I will put in the, I'll put a link for that in the show notes, uh they have seven points that they recommend tips for starting a discipleship relationship. So we're just gonna go through those and kind of uh reflect on what has been helpful on a practical basis for you guys. Uh so this is unrehearsed, so we want to just um leave it open for any of you guys to pitch in uh whenever you want to. The first recommendation is to begin by sharing the what's of a discipleship relationship. So to maybe to get us started, uh, how much detail do you share in terms of what materials to use, how much homework is required, and that sort of thing when you're just beginning to uh meet with somebody?

Elmo Joseph 6:14

You know, I I I think is if I if I look at it as what is a discipling relationship, uh when when I begin, I just more or less say I'm I'm walking with Jesus, do you want to join us? And um I um I ask them what they want, uh what they what they expect. So my experience has been it's uh it's really a custom fit uh based on their needs. And that means I do ask some questions and I need to let them talk so I can find out where they're at and what what the Lord would bring to mind that would be best to help them in uh in their walk with the Lord.

David Dennis 7:00

Very good, very good. Ryan, your thoughts on that? How much detail do you share initially? Do you invite them to a specific program, shall we say, or a specific course of um interaction, or is let me leave it more open like that?

Ryan Henderson 7:16

You know, um for one, I I agree with Elmo, and I think the uh the last conference speaker we had summarized it very well. He said, one, you follow Jesus. Uh two, you follow Jesus and help somebody else follow Jesus. And three, you help that person help somebody else follow Jesus. So in the grand scheme of things, that's what really matters. Uh, but but for getting started purposes, we went, our family went on a road trip. We were driving back home from Colorado yesterday, and so I had a really good conversation in our car driving with uh my wife when we're about this podcast. Like, hey, what's what you know, fill me in from your perspective. And so I mentioned that because in my situation, where I start with and how much detail we go into into cyborg relationships, I've got to start with making sure that my wife and I are on board and unified in how we're doing things, then the rest falls into place from there. But so I think it kind of depends on the person. There's I've used every man a warrior quite a bit, and it does a really good job of kind of spelling out some of those details for you, just kind of built into the material. Um, and so that's a that's a handy tool, and um it it's good to kind of clarify some of those things up front. But then I've had other situations where you just dive in head first and start getting into scripture and through your relationship with that person, you just you just keep pointing them towards scripture and helping them learn how to get into God's word for themselves and and help them work through the kind of things they need to work through. Our uh our family, we've been doing uh, and I'll mention family again because I've got four kids, and I think one of the best places to start discipling is start right where you're at and start right with whatever people may be in your life around you. I've got four kids, and my first priority in disciple making is to start right with the the kids in my home. And uh, we've been working through memorizing some verses together, and uh one of them we just memorized was Matthew 4.19. It says, Come follow me, Jesus said, and I'll make you fishers of men. So we start by following Jesus, and uh through following him, we want to be like Jesus and uh learn how to fish. And uh one of the things that I was thinking about related to this, and that my wife and I talked about is you know, one of the things Jesus was like was he poured out his life into the lives of other people and he you know he served them. Mark 10, 45 says he did not come to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many. So it takes to get started, it it takes a uh a willing heart to be able to sacrifice your own time and energy to be able to build a relationship with other people.

David Dennis 10:13

Absolutely. That's great. Thank you. Thank you, Ryan. Art, any thoughts on how much do you share up front about what's going to be required?

Art Sauder 10:21

I I really appreciate the comments that have been made. Really frame it up very well. The idea of customizing meeting people as as individuals. Uh David, your focus uh on the the concepts from Bill Maori's book, Walk with Me, um, have really just helped shape the idea of having a heart to look around and you know, first of all, walk with Jesus and like like I said, invite others to and just to be sensitive to where someone is at, uh, what are they, you know, where are they at spiritually, what interests do they have, and help them get plugged in right where they are from a standpoint of uh having a born-again relationship with Christ to, you know, coming from a uh pose of really wanting to grow. And the one thing that's really been helpful to me over the last just recent few years is to really focus on the idea of it being a mutual relationship. And God is really building into my life and encouraging me uh as we get together and just to really tell people how much I appreciate that and just the one another side of it has really been important. But you know, the idea of uh meeting people where they are and then focusing on appropriate ways to really take solid steps forward. In other words, if we're gonna spend time together, how do we invest in things that are worthwhile and really help people to know Jesus, walk with him, and have a heart to share that with others around him?

David Dennis 12:05

That's fantastic. Yeah, thank you. As I think back on people of um invited to join me in that walk, I tend to not share everything up front. Obviously, I start by just saying, hey, let's get together, let's maybe do a Bible study together. And as we're interacting over that, then we see, like Elmo was saying, kind of what the needs are, where they are spiritually. And then at that point, outline a little bit more in detail what what we're what we're looking at going forward. The phrases that the navigator handout talks about in this area, about sharing the what's of discipleship relationship, are uh quote, I'd like to read the Bible with you sometime, or I'd like to share some things that have been helpful for me in my walk with God, or I'd love to share what I've been learning about prayer lately, or I'd like to help you grow in your relationship with God. So some something in terms of um inspiring them to join with you on that walk.

Ryan Henderson 13:03

Something else I'll add to that, that kind of in the along those same lines, and I enjoy coaching basketball and my I like coaching my son's team. So I run around with these uh you know 11 different 12 and 11-year-olds. And uh you can learn a lot about life and discipleship from trying to get them to work in unison and and coordinate activities on a basketball court. But but when you're coaching, if you just stand there and uh talk a whole bunch up front and try to explain the whole process, you lose interest real quick and it's not gonna soak in if you talk about everything that needs to happen up front. And so from a coaching standpoint, we we play a small game and then we uh we do what I call a game sandwich. So we'll play a game and then we'll pause the game and then work on one specific skill, and then we'll play the game again and see if we can't put into practice that one specific skill. And and then we keep layering and layering and layering as the season goes along. And so I think that applies to discipleship in a way that you've kind of got to read the relationship and the and the the team or the person you're working with, and uh kind of start with what they can digest and then layer on as you go and and put things into practice instead of not not just talking about it, but there's a you've got to talk and explain some things, but then put things into practice and and do them at the same time.

David Dennis 14:37

That's great. That's a great illustration, isn't it? That's fantastic. Now, the um I've heard some people say they always start with like the beginning with Christ versus the assurance versus, or they always start with, you know, design for discipleship, something like that. But what I hear you guys saying is that it's really very individualistic. You don't necessarily always start with those. Is that is that true, or or do some of you tend to always use the same resources in getting started?

Elmo Joseph 15:03

You know, I think one of the things that uh comes to my mind is um, you know, what right do I have to speak into someone's life? In other words, I realize that I have to earn that. And that comes from uh gaining their trust. I think it has everything to do with love. So, you know, I'm not I'm not so intent on getting something into their thinking as I am to winning their heart. And uh that that comes, you know, the friendship and trust. And once they begin to to trust me, then they're a lot more willing to share their hurts, their fears, their needs, and what what is uh holding them up, what is keeping them from progressing in their in their spiritual life. Um, because that's what we're looking at is trying to help them to grow in their relationship with the Father through the Son by the Holy Spirit. And I have no idea what that is, and only as the Holy Spirit enables them to where they're at, can I then be available for the Lord to use me to start addressing their itch?

David Dennis 16:11

I'm very intrigued by that idea of gaining their trust, and uh then you can minister to them in a more effective way. What are some ideas you have, Elmo, about how do you gain their trust as a matter of sharing your life, vulnerability, that type thing, or how do you do that?

Elmo Joseph 16:27

Every relationship, every everything is different. Every one. I we have a whole lot of really good tools, and they'll work if they're empowered by the Holy Spirit, and only the Holy Spirit knows which one that person needs. So I I just have to be alert to what they say, and invariably something will come to mind, a story, or sometimes it's a physical thing, you know. I'll give them a cup of cold water. I mean, you understand sometimes just listening to them, maybe for the first time somebody is willing to listen to them. So it's just a wide variety, but what I have to do is just make them the center of attention. I have to empty myself out, and I don't do that easily. That's something that I can't do. Um I don't know if I'm explaining that right, but uh I let the Lord love them through me. I I just have to give up all my rights and all my wants and just focus on them. And and the and then really respond to that. You know, it's amazing how human beings will respond to the love of God if if we'll just let Him love them through us. And then whatever their need is, it seems that it's it's there. God brings it to mind, and away we go.

David Dennis 17:51

We must let the Lord love them through us, then their need will become apparent. You know, that's great advice and wisdom for Mr. Elmo Joseph. The focus must not be on what we want to accomplish, on what we think is best. It needs to be on them, on the man or woman you are investing in. They will then be aware of your love and concern for them and respond accordingly. This is such wonderful wisdom. Join us for part two of this round table discussion on how to get started discipling others. Right here on Making Disciples Naturally.