Ep. 326 Where do I begin? Part 2 of 3 Roundtable with Elmo Joseph, Art Sauder, Ryan Henderson and David Dennis

Where do I begin when I want to start helping someone else grow spiritually? What resources are available? What is disciplemaking all about? These are some very practical and Biblical ideas presented by a round table of four members of the Kansas Communities Ministry Team. 

Navigator (c) resource "Seven tips for starting a discipleship relationship"

Transcript

Elmo Joseph 0:02

Today I was in a medical situation with man I've never met. And as he was doing his thing and I was responding, I shared my elevator testimony with him and when it was appropriate. And pretty soon he says, you know, I'm 59 years old and I don't think I'm doing what God wants me to do yet. And I said, Well, maybe we could get together and see if you could find that out. So I think we're going to do that. I've never seen it before in my life. I I tell stories. I tell stories of my relationship with Christ. And some people look at you like you're crazy and they're not interested. And others say, I would like to know more. I would like to be like that too.

David Dennis 0:51

Tell stories about your relationship with Christ. Some will be interested and want to know more. Hi, I'm David Dennis with the Kansas Communities Ministry with the Navigators. Thank you so much for joining us today on Making Disciples Naturally, for we believe that making disciples should be a natural part of every believer's walk with the Lord. Today we continue with our roundtable discussion with three men who are sold out to their Lord and the vision that He has given us, making disciples of all nations. In particular, we are focusing today on the topic of how to get started in disciple-making relationships. So I'm going to ask Art, do you tell people up front, hey, let's get together for a certain period of time? Like let's let's get together for a month or even six weeks and just see how it goes, or do you tend to play it by ear as as you go?

Art Sauder 1:58

Oh, I I uh initially I like to start as casually, as naturally. Think of a lot of times we've just met for breakfast. And then, you know, if there's interest and we can talk about things, you know, just defining a short period of time. I like I like to move from a breakfast setting to we have a very welcoming conference room here at the office, and it's been a great place to meet people in small groups or even individuals. And there's a that's a safe environment where we can just talk and share. And I think uh to ask people to commit my door, you know, maybe several times to get together and just try and uh really helm said it really well. Um, you know, the idea of being authentic and and really having a heart to listen. And I really uh like to uh have uh an easy read paperback Bible here for people, even if we're using some kind of a tool. I really like to have people seeing that these these answers, these verses, these thoughts are in the scripture, and just getting into the scripture as quickly as you can and and just do some exploration there, short character study, the life of Joseph or someone like that, the life of David. But you know, leave it really open-ended and and make it as inviting as you can, and and not necessarily launch off on a six-month project from day one.

David Dennis 3:46

The second principle in this handout says, explain the why of a discipleship relationship. Explain the why of it, which gets into the idea of you know motivation for growth and that sort of thing. Uh as we explore that a little bit, what what are some of the whys of a discipleship relationship? Why should someone A want to grow and B, why should we want to invest in someone? What are your thoughts on that?

Elmo Joseph 4:14

And it it's commissioned, we are commissioned by Jesus to do this. Something not only he did, but the apostles did. And so I think as far as I'm concerned, you know, it's it's what he wants me to do, and that that that should be enough.

Art Sauder 4:30

I think of my my own testimony. I remember like I was sitting there today, uh, the guy that discipled me waiting for lunch, and he just asked me, hey, is it that most Christians don't grow? And my response was, I want to grow. And he said, I will help you. And I just think of that, those words, I will help you, how essential that is to really establish a relationship. As Elmo said, we're we're commissioned to do that. So it's it's really essential.

David Dennis 5:04

The more we realize how much Christ has done for us, the more we realize our position, our situation, and how he has rescued us from the life we used to live, how much he has rescued us and given us power to live a new life, the more we realize that, the more we want to grow spiritually to be like him, to obey him and and to become like him. So I think that's great. Any other thoughts, Ryan, you have on the idea of um the inspiration for why to grow spiritually?

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Yeah, one of the things I was thinking about related to this for for me, one of the whys was because I experienced it in my own life when it was done to me and how helpful it was. You know, when I was a young Christian trying to figure out what it looked like to live the live the Christian life, it was so helpful to me that what was modeled to me that I wanted to carry that on and to serve other people and to do that to other with other people. And I think one of the things that's important about getting started is if if somebody doesn't know where to get started at, to go seek out pray prayerfully, seek out a discipleship relationship where someone would disciple them and and learn what it what it's like and to have it modeled for them so they could then go model to other people because I think you know more is caught than is taught and and people will reproduce what was done to them. Um, you know, I I was had some great, like I said, mentioned, had some great conversation and and memories when I was talking through this with my wife on our drive back of just how impactful it was and then the way individuals poured out their lives into me, that it just inspired me to go and do that with other people. And I just we just find it a joy to do that as a family um and and individually um within our family, my wife and I.

David Dennis 6:55

I think it's a great point, Ryan, that if if someone is considering initiating a disciplining relationship with someone else, and if they have not experienced that themselves, it's very hard to do that, very hard to get started, not impossible, but I think that's a great point to seek out someone to to meet with you and just have them pour their life into you, no, no matter where you are in the in the spiritual journey. So that's good. Have you ever met with someone for let's say four weeks, six weeks, eight weeks, and uh looks like they don't really have an interest in growing. That was kind of a false read that that you got. And if so, how did you deal with that?

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Um, you know, unfortunately that does happen in many times the experience where you'll eat whether it's individually or getting a group of guys together to go through something, that's another one where the relationship really is important. And and regardless of how things progress or end, you know, if we're talking about an end in this case, we always want to leave the door open for for what may come in the future. That when uh maybe in a different season of life a person's experience changes and they have a change of heart, we always want to leave it to where um there's a door an open door where they can come back. And so how to uh gracefully end is is really depend on that relationship. So and sometimes depend on how things are going, that's a not as hard conversation. Sometimes it can be kind of a hard conversation. I I that's one of the reasons I like using the Everyman a warrior um as a tool, is it it kind of has some built-in uh markers and expectations, and then that helps have those conversations up front of hey, hey, here's the expectations, here's what this is gonna look like. And and down the road, if life busyness or circumstances makes that challenging for an individual, then it makes it really easy to circle back to um those expectations and and just kind of lovingly be like, maybe this isn't a right fit, maybe this isn't right time, whatever that case may be. But hey, let's let's see if maybe you can, you know, if it's a busyness of life availability thing, that happens a lot where um maybe somebody's got a new job, or you know, they're just taking you know, the time isn't there, like, hey, let's circle back in you know, whatever time frame and see if if uh later on it's a better fit for you.

David Dennis 9:26

Yeah, a couple of thoughts on that is that um I think traditionally the navigator model has been you hopefully are with someone when they become a believer or shortly thereafter, and you walk with them for months, years, in fact. And uh and sometimes that happens. I know of people who have experienced that. But I was talking with uh a navigator leader recently who said that uh with the current culture, that more often than not we get the opportunity to walk with someone for just a certain season of their life before they either move or something else happens. And so that's one point that it's it's okay to pour into someone's life for a limited time, not necessarily forever and ever. The other point is that um at least I always feel like, well, I failed somehow if I did if someone doesn't continue with me or if they they show interest in doing something else, but I have to realize that my job, as we know, is to be faithful, not necessarily quote, successful, and God may have something else in in mind for them at this point in their life. So anybody else want to comment on that? Well, I think something I discovered.

Elmo Joseph 10:38

I study in, I think it was the book of John, John chapter one. It was it came to me that when Jesus selected his men, the majority of them were John the Baptist, several of them were John the Baptist uh disciples. And see, those fellows were already seeking Jesus, they were already looking for the Messiah. So I began to uh be aware of that and prayerfully conscious of that, that when I would talk to men, you know, Lord, is is this man a seeker? And and I have several experiences of that. If if they're not, then better just to wait. And you know, you can pray for them, but don't don't push or don't try to enter into a program. Just but God has brought this last two or three or four years, several men into my life, that they're really seeking God. They're hungry. I don't, I mean, kind of have to hold them back, you know. I mean, it's time for you to leave. You've been here long enough. And boy, that's really neat to see that because we want to remember what we're talking about is a spiritual life here, not a physical life.

David Dennis 11:56

This is a spiritual ministry, and it's under the power and control of the Holy Spirit. You mentioned at one point that that people come up to you and and ask to be helped, that type of thing. And that's not been my experience. You know, I'm I'm constantly seeking people, that type of thing. How do you identify people to to pour into?

Elmo Joseph 12:23

You know, I'm I'm just I'm gonna have to say it again. Uh we we just have to make ourselves available, just to be available. And some of the people, the men that I have discipled in the last few years were not very nice people. They they didn't have a very clean background. They were they had real problems. All of them, all of us are broken, and uh, but I just offer my body as a living sacrifice just to be available, and uh, and I just let the Lord pick them up. I remember Lauren Saneck, past president of Navigators, was speaking one time and he said, I learned real quick I wasn't a very good picker outer. Right? I'll never forget that. That stuck with me. And and uh and I took the ownership of that. I'm not a very good picker outer, but God is. You know, I I have men that I've I still get together with over 30 years, and and others as you know, just a few months.

David Dennis 13:29

Art, how do you identify people? Do do people come up to you and ask to be discipled?

Art Sauder 13:35

You know, just in in building relationships, you know, particularly work relationships. There have been several uh discipling relationships that have come directly out of it. And in fact, we're finishing up every meta warrior. Uh, and it's a group of the three of us, and these two fellows are both we have worked together and just listening and the everyday, you know, just sharing in everyday life the scripture and inviting the people, uh, and and allowing God's spirit to just really lead people and interest people and and make me sensitive and aware and responsive and and almost make it available, uh, whether it's you know, work relationships, church relationships, uh, neighborhood, family, just really being sensitive. Get conversations started. And you know, if I'm interested in talking about it and in the word, and really it is working, and being sensitive to people, opportunity can materialize, and it's a matter of just responding.

Elmo Joseph 14:44

I think even even today I was in a medical situation with man I've never met. And as he was doing his thing and I was responding, I shared my elevator testimony with him and when it was appropriate. And pretty soon he says, you know, I'm 59 years old, and and I don't think I'm doing what God wants me to do yet. And I said, Well, maybe we could get together and see if you could find that out. So I think we're gonna do that. Now, I've never seen it before in my life. I I tell stories. I tell stories of my relationship with Christ. And some people look at you like you're crazy and they're not interested. And others say, I would like to, I would like to know more. I would like to be like that too. So that's maybe a little more practical way on how I find seekers, but you have to be willing to to share testimony with them appropriately for the city.

David Dennis 15:43

All people are different. Brian, how about you? How do you identify people? How do you find people to to invest in?

SPEAKER_00 15:49

The uh Elmo mentioned availability, and I think that is so I think the two really big important things that I've found over time are availability and prayer. You know, I think the longer I've ventured in life with wife and kids and jobs and the busyness of life, that that availability is a skill in itself, but the the times in my life where I've been intentional about having availability, then the Lord has brought people along, prayerfully seeking those, then then they're there. The uh the other thing that I would add to that is uh again going back to doing what was modeled, you know, when I was in college, we had this small group of guys who got together. One of the guys in that group, you know, he lived in nearby, and we would go to his parents' house and hang out and just play games and kind of goof off and do fun stuff. And the the combination of having a home where of hospitality where people gather and getting together in a in a small group allows for the opportunity to find individuals, I've found. So we we open our, we really enjoy opening our home to especially to young adults, is just kind of a thing that I enjoy being around younger people. So I've really enjoyed finding in the in the midst of the small group that comes to our home, I really enjoy building relationships and laughing and having a good time with people, but at the same time looking for individuals who who may be interested in going deeper.

David Dennis 17:27

Yeah, I think that's a really practical thing because I uh thinking back, you know, in Sunny School classes and men's groups, I have tried to keep my eyes open for guys who really are speaking up and showing interest and wanting to grow. And I try to move toward those people and and uh just make conversation and talk about spiritual things, just see what the interest is. So I think that's that's really good about the hospitality. The tremendous value of Christian hospitality, meeting people in everyday life of our homes and just showing them love and acceptance. What a wonderful way to minister to people. Again, I really appreciate the insight these three men have.