Ep. 327 Where do I begin? Part 3 of 3 Roundtable with Elmo Joseph, Art Sauder, Ryan Henderson and David Dennis

Where do I begin when I want to start helping someone else grow spiritually? What resources are available? What is disciplemaking all about? These are some very practical and Biblical ideas presented by a round table of four members of the Kansas Communities Ministry Team. 

Navigator (c) Resource "Seven tips for starting a discipleship relationship"

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

You know, one of the guys that discipled me, he was real big into scripture memory, and that really made an impact on me. One of the things that he was just convinced of was that minute for minute, hour for hour, the most beneficial thing you could do with your life and time would be to memorize scripture and to help someone else memorize a verse and to minister God's word into their heart. And so I think it's really important that memorizing scripture is a part of discipleship because to what Art and Elmo have talked about, in this this is a spiritual thing we're doing. It's not about knowledge seeking or it's not about me, um, but it's the word of God ministered into the heart of another person, is what transforms them and makes that impact in their life. And so I think it's really important that scripture memory is a part of it.

David Dennis 0:53

Minute for minute, memorizing scripture is the most impactful thing we can help someone do in terms of their spiritual growth. Hi, I'm David Dennis with the Campus Minutes Ministry with the Navigators. Thank you so much for joining us today on Making Disciples Naturally. For we believe that making disciples should be a natural part of every believer's walk with the Lord. Today we'll be listening to the third of three podcasts dealing with the question of how to get started investing in the spiritual lives of others. We will wrap up our roundtable discussion with Mr. Elmo Joseph, Art Todder, and Ryan Henderson as we look at some more practical issues in this area. So we have um a busy world in which we live nowadays, a lot of demands, a lot of work demands, family demands, and um and that sort of thing. So the question is, what is reasonable in today's world in terms of, let's say, frequency of meeting and duration of meeting? Do you have any thoughts on what's reasonable nowadays?

Elmo Joseph 1:57

I would just say uh be sensitive to the fellow's appetite and be sensitive to his priorities and you know his family once a week, every other week. That's pretty well what I go for. Once a month, not very good. It's not usually often enough. And uh no more than I'd try to terminate it at an hour and a half. An hour usually takes at least an hour, but don't want to intrude. Let them let them know that you know their time is important and show respect, you know, for the the relationships that are important to them.

David Dennis 2:32

Art, your thoughts on the practical aspects of frequency of meeting and how long to meet.

Art Sauder 2:37

Um well, there's you know, once once we are really established and doing things, several that we meet weekly, it's somewhere between an hour to an hour and 10 minutes is kind of tough. And um, you know, the idea of every other week right now, uh there's there's a group of guys that you know we're just getting started. So we're we're we're gonna be creative, I think, to meet. And I I think we're gonna have to use some Zoom meetings as well as personal. And and this is this is something that I'm I'm I'm really trusting God to give us the time. Uh it appears that these guys are not available early, several of them have uh school kids. Uh I I meet with guys at 6 6 30 in the morning, and uh that doesn't work for this group. Uh we're we're working over noon hour right now. So we're we're gonna have to figure out how to how to do this. So if you guys can help me with this, uh you know, just to get enough time uh and and we're really trying to do something that requires 15 minutes a day, five days a week type deal. And in the actual, you know, rolling up the things part of the deal. And then just okay, how do we how do we get time together to really make that as effective as it can be?

David Dennis 4:10

Ryan, what are your thoughts about frequency of meeting and duration?

SPEAKER_00 4:15

I I used to be a real stickler for once a week was the thing to do, and I think that is a good thing to do. And I think uh every other week is a is a you know, weekly or every other week is a is a really good frequency to target. I've had a few different situations come up where monthly has has worked. There's uh a guy I meet with now who you know, we we used to meet weekly and just with he had he's got three kids, and I've got four kids. Um, and so we meet um I'm eating breakfast with him tomorrow morning. And so we we we aim for once a month, sometimes we get a couple times a month in. And so I I've changed my view on that a little bit over the years with just life and circumstances and trying to meet people with where they're at. Um, but yeah, I uh if if you're meeting one-on-one with somebody, or I usually don't really, you know, an hour is a good time. Sometimes circumstances are okay going longer than that. But um, if you got a group of three or four guys, sometimes just to catch up and get through whatever you need to get through, hour and a half is probably good, but um, all second elmo said now, you know, after an hour and a half, you're probably it's probably good to cut it and get on with life.

David Dennis 5:27

Yeah, I think it's really great. I think, yeah, for me, it's uh it's between an hour and an hour and a half is the the golden time. Uh it it's long enough to get in touch with each other and kind of you know relate for a while, but but um I think that's that's a good length of time. And uh and I I think every other week is is perfectly fine. That's that's what what I do now at this point for the most part. What about this trial period? We talked about that a little bit, just touching on that again. Uh, do you think a trial period is something that um is helpful? And if so, how long should it be? And and how do you tell if it's a successful trial period to continue or not?

Elmo Joseph 6:05

I usually um challenge them for three months or uh the duration of a study we've chosen. Uh one of the newest guys, the young and doing uh beginning with Christ. It's five five lessons. So and I always, even men I've been meeting with for 15 years, when we finish a study, I ask them if they want to go on. So I would say right off the bat, no more than three months before you give them a way to escape. You know, if they decide it's not for me. But I've constantly given them the opportunity because I'm really wanting them to start meeting with a guy. And sometimes it it's necessary they stop meeting with me in order to have time, because I'm meeting with a lot of men that might have four kids and a job, you know. Remember, we just remember they are what's important, yeah. Not our meeting, not our meeting with them or what we're doing. They are what's important. Art, your thoughts about a trial period.

Art Sauder 7:10

Um, yeah, I I really like that uh because it gives everybody a real, you know, a freedom to freedom to just allow God's word to work. And I can think of, you know, in the last year we did we we did some time together and then we took a little break. You know, we had completed that, we stopped, and just you know, there wasn't pressure. And you know, he came back and said, you know, I I wanna I wanna pick pick this up again. And I I just love it when that happens because you know, then it really sets the stage as far as okay, what's the next step? And uh for that, that was uh that was actually an evangelical study that we did about five weeks, and that culminated with him, you know, committing his life to Christ. So he he was born again, and really it was a a transforming uh relationship that point forward. And then we're just finishing up every man Hawaii right now. So it it was not just a straight line, but just by letting that be authentic, God really God really worked in it.

David Dennis 8:26

Now I'm curious concerning scripture memory, do you guys start off initially always with uh having them memorize at least a verse to get started? Of course, I realize if you get started on memory on uh every man of warrior, that includes that. But let's say just a generic discipling relationship, do you always start with a scripture memory or do you sometimes simply read scripture together, talk about it?

SPEAKER_00 8:50

All the you know, one of the guys that discipled me, he was real big into scripture memory, and that really made an impact on me. Um, one of the things that he was just convinced of was that minute for minute, hour for hour, the most beneficial thing you could do with your life and time would be to memorize scripture and to help other you know and to help someone else uh memorize a verse and to minister God's word into their heart. And so I I think it's really important that um memorizing scripture is a part of discipleship because to what Art and Elmo have talked about in this this is a spiritual thing we're doing, it's not about um knowledge seeking or it's not about me, um, but it's the word of God ministered into the heart of another person is what transforms them and and makes that impact in their life. And so I think it's really important that scripture memory is a part of it somehow. You know, every man of warrior has that kind of built into it, and that that makes that kind of handy, you know, those beginning in Christ series books. I I really love those as well. Those have scripture memory kind of built into those. Um, so I I think it's very important that that's uh a part of that.

Elmo Joseph 9:58

Almo, do you start with scripture memory always? No, I'm I'm I'm looking for two things. Um one is commitment, and the other is you know availability, of course. But uh like the um groin in Christ and lessons on assurance, they they have verses in them. I think most of the men I meet with start memorizing or want to because I quote verses to them all the time. And they'll they'll begin they'll begin to see the power in that and they'll appreciate it. So then it's not me telling them you need to do this. They're they're doing it because they want to do it, and so they do a lot better job. And it becomes a habit. You understand what I'm saying? Uh I'm not saying that's all the time, but but that's what I prefer. So, no, I don't again, I don't have any one, two, three for everybody. Yeah, you know, obviously scripture memory is critical and a key to our spiritual life. I mean, I totally agree with that.

David Dennis 10:58

Apart from Everyman a warrior, do you introduce scripture memory early on in relationships?

Art Sauder 11:03

You know, I try and take a lot of the same approach that Elmo just said. You know, it's interesting how people, as people pick up on key verses and they they're impacting them, you know, I encourage people to start with with that. And you know, you might commit that that verse to memory. And then, you know, just just let it take shape. But you know, the more that obviously uh God's spirit, you the sword of the spirit is the the word of God, but letting that unfold. I I really like the way Elmo uh framed that.

David Dennis 11:41

Yeah, if if anything, I have erred on the side of not doing scripture memory till later. Um, and then I go through periods of time when I always start with uh the growing in Christ versus so beginning with Christ versus, I mean, but it's I think it's it's uh variable and it depends on on where the person is and what you think the Lord wants you to do.

Elmo Joseph 11:58

So and it's just really nice when they say, Well, I want to memorize these verses. Will you hold me accountable and ask me next next week to quote it? I mean, you win. I mean, that's that's what we want right there.

David Dennis 12:10

Amen. That's great. Let's let's talk uh a little bit about multiplication and how do we uh obviously the goal is for the people that we work with to grow into Christ's likeness and then to pass it on. Reproduction is such a key part of what we're called to do, I think. So, how do we inspire people to um reproduce? And by reproduction, I mean not only share their faith with unbelievers, but also pour into people to help other people grow. Do you introduce that topic early on? Do you let it evolve naturally as the Lord leads?

Elmo Joseph 12:48

Very simply, I share that principle with them the first time we meet and every time they're after. Oh, really? I mean, that's my that's my intention. Uh a sentence that we preach a sermon. Just point it out every opportunity. Okay. Give us an example of what you would say. Well, I would just I would tell them, you know, basically how how important is it to you what we're doing? And 100% of the time they'll say it's very important. Well, who are you doing this with? Who are you willing to help? Well, you know, somewhere along that line. And obviously, uh 2 Timothy 2, 2, and and you know, you can share share the verses with them.

David Dennis 13:26

Art, your thoughts on reproduction multiplication.

Art Sauder 13:31

I just really uh going back to you know the focus of the last the last year or two of just looking around, walk with me, uh the idea of encouraging people to just start praying for specific people that they you know right right where they are, fears of influence. And um, you know, if we can if we can get people to really really start praying and and naming people and being sensitive to people around them. A guy shared with me just a few weeks ago, uh, he said, you know, this this has just really helped me realize much simpler than we've made it. We've been making it. It's not how to breathe right where right where we live. And I thought that was a great way. I I I was really encouraged by that to think that he was he was viewing it like that.

David Dennis 14:32

Ryan, your thoughts on multiplication of ministry.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Yeah, I I am super encouraged by by hearing Elmo and and Art and uh was was challenged in in how they answer this question that maybe I need to interweave that into what I'm doing a little bit more frequently. Um I I absolutely think it is important. And he and even you know, we've mentioned tools and resources quite a bit. You know, I I would say even if I'm doing every man of warrior, it has some of that as a part of it, that that it needs to be more frequently discussed and and modeled as you're going through it.

David Dennis 15:08

Yeah, I've appreciated uh Leroy Iron's book about lost art of disciple making. That's that's that's I think uh a very key book in my repertoire, I guess, of helping people catch the vision of reproduction. And then also recently I've started using the um Robert Coleman's Master Plan of Evangelism, which should be called Master Plan of Discipleship, because that is all about reproduction and how to how to find people and that sort of thing. So that's been helpful uh recently, I think, for me to help to share with people. I guess one other thing I wanted to cover real quickly is your limits for discipleship. How how do you uh do you just keep taking on people no matter what, or how do you how do you uh discern that you are as busy as you can be right now in terms of making disciples?

Elmo Joseph 15:58

Well, I'm I myself being being retired, so that means that you know I'm of an age where I don't have children. Children rightfully take a lot of time for the younger dads. I am retired, so I don't work 40 to 60 hours a week, and uh and my wife has passed, and so basically I have six Saturdays every week, and I'm available 24-7. Now, 98% of the men I meet with don't fit that. A lot of them have children, they have jobs, almost all of them. And I think health also enters in. That's become an issue which never was before, slows me down a little bit. So um I think that's this is something that's uh there isn't any set year or age or numbers, just as the Lord brings them into your life, and I don't think he'll bring them if he if you're not able to allow him to use you to disciple them through you, because they are his disciples. We don't ever want to forget that. They're not all great point.

David Dennis 17:08

Art, your thoughts about limits? Because you're a busy man, I know.

Art Sauder 17:13

Well, I and I I feel like I need to be more sensitive to the idea of uh, you know, the prioritizing, and Richard has has really modeled the idea of what's essential, what's necessary, what's good, what we should delegate, and what we should eliminate. And you know, in the essential category is you know, establishing relationships in true disciple making, that is essential. So I have to be willing to get up early in the morning to meet with people if they're available, and and God has really honored them. So, you know, that's kind of kind of the way I've gone about it. Like I said, now we're trying to get a lunch group uh prioritizing going, and uh I've I just really gotta pray for uh heart and wisdom to uh make that to do it. So that's uh if I need to start cutting back more and more on work to make that happen, uh I've seen model that often well for us. So uh I I've just got to be willing to do that.

David Dennis 18:26

Thank you. Ryan, you're a you're a busy man as well. Busier than any of us probably tell us how do you how do you decide on um you know people to to pour into.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

A lot of conversations with my wife about how we should spend our time. Yeah, good. Because we're in this together, and um, you know, she she has some some gals that she pours into, and I've got some guys that I pour into. Um we have this small group that meets at our house, and so we we have a lot of conversations about are we spending our time the right way? Are we are we doing the things we need to be doing with our kids? Because you know, ours ours starts and stops with we have four little disciples in our home that that we need to prioritize. Uh, you know, everything outside of that's a a bonus. And uh so we we have a lot of conversations about schedules and times and and and being intentional about um ensuring that our plates aren't too full with all the all the good. You know, there's there's a lot of good things you can do that might end up preventing you from doing something great or essential. And so for for us, we're we're together in that discipleship is a priority for us and how we want to minister to others, and so we we are purposeful about making sure that we have the time and space to um in the midst of all the busyness of work and kid activities and homeschools and coaching basketballs, uh that that we make time for that. And and part of that's I you mentioned a couple books there, and I wish I could think of the name of the book. I I don't remember it off the top of my head, but there was just kind of the general premise of it was you know, do do your discipleship in your individual ministry in line with what you're doing already. Um kind of be wise in the logistics of those things. Um you don't you don't want to have like this thing you're doing over here with work and play, and then have this discipleship thing you're doing that's way over here. You know, that should all be in alignment with uh with your activities and where you're going. And so try to be smart about that. We're the we're at church, like that's a good place to meet people and and get involved to a certain extent to be able to find people who are seeking. And so so, yeah, a lot a lot of conversations with the wife. You know, there's not a certain number there, but but it you know what anything more than yeah, more than the you know, what one is great, anything more than that that's is probably gonna be tough but doable.

David Dennis 20:58

I think that every time the Lord has brought someone into my life to disciple or to have a relationship with, he has always provided time for that. Amazing, just amazing to see that happen.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Yeah. I just think it's really fun how God answers prayer. If you're praying for a specific art, mentioned some some guys and praying specifically for people. I just think it's really fun to see how the Lord answers prayer in different ways. And yeah, if your heart is inclined towards an individual or individuals and you're praying for them, then then I agree. Then it's it's amazing the way that the Lord makes a way for those things to happen.

David Dennis 21:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

We just recently had one where I was uh had a prayer request that I shared with our with the group that meets our house uh on a Monday night, and then on Wednesday, the Lord answered that prayer, and it was kind of cool. It was just kind of fun encouragement.

Elmo Joseph 21:44

I was just gonna say Jesus said while you're going, make disciples.

David Dennis 21:48

Yeah, it's it's a participle, right? In the Great Commission. Yes. As you're going, yeah. Make disciples. As we are going through life, we are to Make disciples. The go in the Great Commission in Matthew 28 18 through 20 is a participle. As you are going, make disciples, the Lord Jesus tells us. This tells me that making disciples, investing in others, should be a natural part of our everyday lives. If we can help you in the process of investing in others, please let us know by emailing us at office at kansasnavs.org. That's office at kansasnavsnavs.org. Well, thanks for joining us for these three podcasts. If you didn't catch the first two episodes, I urge you to go back and listen to those as well. There was a lot of really practical advice and wisdom that was shared on these three podcasts. Join us next time as together we learn more about making disciples naturally.