Ep. 328 How does God work in a life to multiply spiritual generations? Part 1 of 3 Doug Simmons

Doug and Laura Simmons are on staff with the Navigators (c) in the Kansas City area. They have a long and varied career of impacting lives for Jesus Christ. In this first of three podcasts with Doug, we learn about how God has worked in his life to multiply spiritual generations. He shares practical thoughts about making disciples who make disciples. 

Transcript

Speaker 1 2:55

I made a list of guys I could think of that kind of fit this profile. And I in five minutes I wrote down 35 names of men that I knew in and around our city, mostly from the church I'd been at and was still at. I called up the first guy and I said, hey, I got an idea for you. Uh you can tell me to go jump in the lake if you don't like it. That's fine. We're good enough friends for you to tell me that. But I'd like to meet with you eight times in the morning before work for eight weeks in a row. And I want you to make a commitment that you'll be there. So say Tuesday mornings at 6:30, we'll meet from 6.30 to 7:30. That'll let you get to work at 8 comfortably. We'll sit down and we'll we'll read the Bible together. We'll discuss it and we'll pray for each other. And when we're done, you're going to either feel like that was worthwhile or not worthwhile. And whichever conclusion you make is fine. But I would like to invite you to make this firm commitment for eight times together in God's Word for one hour. We'll start on time, we'll stop on time. Here's the date we'll start, here's the date we'll stop. And if you never want to do it again, that's absolutely fine. I will never pester you or raise my eyebrows like why aren't you keeping going or anything like that? It's you know it won't change our friendship.

David Dennis 4:05

What a great way to whet the appetite of someone to help them see the importance of spiritual growth and maturity. I'm excited to explore using this in my own ministry. Hi, I'm David Dennis with the Kansas Community's Ministry with the Navigators. Thank you so much for joining us today on Making Disciples Naturally, where we believe that making disciples and developing spiritual generations should be a natural part of every believer's walk. This is the first of three podcasts of my interview with Mr. Doug Simmons. Doug and his wife Laura are on staff with the Navigators in the Kansas City area and have been instrumental in the spiritual growth of countless individuals over the years. Today we hear a little bit about Doug's background. We learn how he came to know the Lord and how the Lord has been working in his life to give him a heart for the individual and for walking long-term with people. In particular, Doug shares a method that might be applicable to you and me as he invited eight guys to join him in a one-on-one life discipleship situation for a defined season. Doug was one of our speakers at the recent uh men's retreat in Heston, Kansas for the Kansas Communities Ministry. Uh Doug spoke on the topic of uh the resource, the ways of the alongsider. So as we begin today, Doug, I'd just like for you to share a little bit about your background, uh, your training, college, career, and also how you became a believer.

Doug Simmons 5:35

Love to, thanks, David. Uh I grew up in the Pacific Northwest in the Seattle area. My dad was uh kind of an early tech guy, worked for the telephone company. This this was all uh, you know, switches and cords and stuff. There was nothing digital yet. But so he was a greatest generation guy, died in his 90s, um, went lived through the depression, saved everything. So when I had a transistor radio that uh went on the blink, he said, Here, take it apart and see what's inside it. So I would undo all the screws and take all the parts apart, and then he put them all in little separate milk cartons that he had cut out to stack. So you never know you're gonna need a radio transistor. That's great, yeah. So I got a little bit of his uh collectible mindset anyway. So I grew up there. Um folks married a long time, uh, you know, one marriage, two older sisters, eight years older and 12 years older. So I was the first boy, the third child, the kind of the caboose. I don't think I ever knew a day when everybody didn't love me. You know, I had two parents and two sisters that thought I was their best little thing that ever happened to their family. So I just kind of lived like, well, I guess everybody loves me. So they they loved the Lord, uh, took me to church, played a lot of Christian music in my home. My mom had sung the Billy Graham Crusade choir when she was young and had Billy Graham Crusade uh choir albums. She also liked kind of black gospel music, so I grew up with a lot of uh black gospel and and gospel quartet, so the Blackwood brothers, and just a lot of lively, uh passionate Christian music before there was anything called contemporary Christian music. Uh right, I'm right in the middle of the boomer generation, so but I uh taken to church and I remember being seven years old in a Sunday school class, and uh pastor's wife was the Sunday school teacher, and she had a flannelograph, which some people may remember as old technology. It was a big easel with fabric on it, and you put paper images or cutouts around on the on the on the fabric, and they'd stay in place just with the tactile nature of the felt. So she had three three shapes up there. She had a she had a a dark-colored heart, a red-colored teardrop, and a light-colored heart. And she explained that this dark heart represents everybody who was made by God and is loved by God, but has rebelled against God, and this our hearts are dark with sin, and we live for ourselves instead of Him. He's the King, He's loving, He's good, but we want to be our own King. That's a problem. And if in fact uh your life ends and and you're in that condition, you're gonna be separated from God permanently. So there's nothing we could do about that. So God took action, sent his own son, Jesus. This red teardrop in the middle, the second image represents him giving his life for us, and that he offers us forgiveness from sin and uh reconciliation to God. I don't think she used that word, but connecting to your father that loves you in heaven. And if uh if you will trust him and and believe that, he will connect you to God and and clean your heart and it'll it'll be clean like this light-colored heart. Who wants to do that? And I remember sitting in the back row thinking, this is a no-brainer. I mean, like who wants to walk around with a dirty heart, you know, a sinful heart? And uh I really never balked at that idea that my heart did what it wanted when it shouldn't. I mean, I loved my parents, but I still disobeyed them. I mean, uh immediately I remember thoughts came to mind of a bully kid at school that was tougher than I was, and you know, he would always hassle me, and I could never take him, but I'd you know, I remember my dad wouldn't let me carry a pocket knife, but if he did let me carry a pocket knife, I'd I'd sneak around and stick it that guy's bike tires with no hesitation at all. I'd with with no no concern at all, I'd hurt him, I'd do something to hurt him because I didn't like how he had hurt me. So really no con no contest with the idea that that I had at seven, even that I had personal sin. I mean, my immediate images that popped to mind of why I'm guilty were seven-year-old examples, but they were real sin. It was genuine live for me, not for someone else's benefit. It didn't take much convincing to for her to explain that that's a problem, and I could see that. And I knew I I felt like the context I was in at home because my folks love the Lord, I was aware of God, I was in a context of love. My dad was a present, faithful dad, so I didn't have the barrier that some people have of not understanding God as a loving God. Uh, and it just it just made sense to me. And I said, Man, I I want that. I know that I know that God, I believe this. I know I'm broken and sinful, and um it's easy to trust him. I want to trust him, I want to embrace what he's offered to to me to make me okay with him for my sin to be gone. I mean, obviously as a seven-year-old, you haven't figured much of life out yet, but an emotional development to come ahead in the future part of my life. But I think that at that moment, as much as I understood about me, I surrendered to as much as I understood about God. And I think I think I became a Christian that day. I did not have an emotional experience really. I remember hearing stories of, you know, Johnny meets Jesus and runs home and the screen door slams behind him, and he runs into the kitchen and says, Mom, uh, I met Jesus today and he forgave my sin and it's a joyful reunion. And the mom swings him around and uh kisses him, and nothing like that for me. I mean, I just kind of went home and didn't say anything. And I always wondered for years if if it was real because I didn't have this emotional reaction. It was, it was pretty much reasoning and belief in the in the data. So I was a you know, pretty good church kid, grew up for the next 10 years or so, uh, went to Sunday school, went to church, had friends, you know, got a little mischief in junior high. But by the time I got to high school, though, I had kind of learned how to live for myself, knew that I was kind of ghosting God, but um still was living for me, had a girlfriend. We were crossing boundaries all the time, and um was really trusting in my identity at school to find my satisfaction of heart. I was playing football my senior year with some friends, uh, and I broke my ankle and my world, my ankle crumbled, but my world kind of symbolically crumbled at the same time. A whole bunch of the things that I had really trusted in as my identity stopped being true because I was on crutches and couldn't throw frisbee, couldn't play football, couldn't couldn't do things I'd done at school. And uh my girlfriend broke up with me, and the dog that I'd had since age two, I'm now 17 for 15 years, died. I mean, so it sounds like a country song, but my life just kind of exploded when my ankle exploded. And it was a wake-up call, and I remember sitting in a hospital waiting for surgery on my ankle and having this conversation with God that Lord, I I know I've been ignoring you for a while, and I do not want to live that way. I won't I want I've strayed far enough to realize there is no solution in being my own king, and so I I give up you, you you you have my life. I have other friends that say that's when I became a Christian at 17, not at seven, but there's often I've found with kids that grow up in Christian homes, there's kind of a two-tier or more multiple-tier moments of surrender and growth. And I had two of those, but I do think I met Christ the first time, and the second one was uh just another come to Jesus moment that was a surrendering.

David Dennis 13:20

I love the illustration of the darkness of the heart that's very visual, and how sin has infected us throughout, and then the red uh teardrop of blood, and then the lighter colored heart, the transformation. And I think uh, as you said, what we have to come back to is the fact that we can't earn it no matter what what we do. We think we can, but we can't, and it's a matter of believing in Jesus. So I I love that illustration you gave. So thanks for sharing that.

Doug Simmons 13:46

And somehow that came clear to me enough when I was a little kid. Later, as I grew and I learned more scripture and was better trained, it it also came into focus from scripture and teaching, but but it was consistent with what I believed in simple form as a kid. I ended up working on summer staff at a Christian camp that summer uh after high school. And one of three summers I ended up during during college and grad school. I went back and worked three summers, and it was a camp that I'd gone to as a kid, which was also very helpful to me, along with uh a ministry called Young Life uh up in the Northwest in the 70s, that was very gospel centered, very rooted in Christ. Um, it was full of young adult leaders who loved teens and loved the Lord unapologetically and loved life. And it was intoxicating to me to meet these adult leaders. I I knew lots of Christians that were adults, but most of them were pretty calm. And these these youth workers through Young Life were just crazy and fun and really about the Lord. So at 14 there was a definite boost in my walk because I got involved with uh this non-denominational youth ministry. I was in a Presbyterian church at the time and it had a small youth group, but Young Life really was a center of gravity for my growth as an early teen. I don't know if it was a difference in ministry philosophy or a vibrance in their own walk with the Lord that the leaders had that my youth group leaders at church apparently didn't have. I I don't I don't I did never really understood that. But young I was at church regularly, faithfully went to church all my life. But interestingly, often the the growth zones for me were connected to some kind of parachurch ministry, whether it was you know, this young life, the citywide youth ministry, transdenominational, or whether it was a Christian camp that was non-denominational, had you know, there's lots of conversation these days with ministry leaders about church versus parachurch. And uh, I'm just I'm for both of them. Uh so that was really helpful. And then uh so I went to college after that summer. That my second summer on SummerStaff, I met uh this wonderful cute girl who was also working there, and that's that was Laura. Uh we ended up we met in 76, got married in 78, and we've been married 47 years now. So that was a good start, good context to meet future life partner in a ministry setting like that, where you're reaching out and serving other other people with the gospel. So I finished, married her during college, still, finished college. I was a uh communications and major with a business minor. I got done with college and I thought, you know, I've spent six years in and out of school to get this degree, which is, you know, fine, but I've made all these sacrifices. I've lived with stinky roommates, and I've ridden rode my bike to school, and I I walked places because I didn't have a car. And I wasn't gripping about any of this. I was just observing, I've shown commitment to get this training, this collegiate degree. And yet I say that God's word is the most important thing to me, but I just spent six years studying other stuff. It doesn't match what I I feel like I need to put some focus into into just studying God's word in the way that I've studied this other stuff. So for me, that meant, well, I probably think I want to go to Bible school or seminary somehow, some kind of Bible college. And I found a two-year program at Dallas Seminary that was a Master of Arts in Biblical Studies without the languages. So I graduated from Dallas in a couple years, uh, really never planning to preach or be a senior pastor. I finished down there in '82 and then moved back to the Northwest and asked God, you know, what's next, Lord? We'll we'll do whatever you want. And sensed that we both would like to work in camp ministry year-round because it had been so significant to us as college students. You know, within a year, God opened doors and off we went into youth camp ministry, Christian youth camp ministry in Seattle for the next 13 years. Eventually, I became convinced that I'd I'd I'd rather have deeper investment in fewer people than a very uh, you know, a significant but a short investment through camps and conferences in many, many people. I'd rather walk longer in the trenches with Christians, helping them grow than uh just a wonderful weekend retreat or a week at camp with with uh in the summer. And what seemed to me to be the best place to do that would be to serve on a church staff uh somewhere. Again, not a senior pastor, I never felt called to fill the pulpit. Did want to serve the body of Christ and grow. So we again knocked on doors and that led us to Kansas. So when I was 40 years old, we moved to Kansas and I was on staff at a church for five years, associate pastor over four different areas of the church ministries. There were a couple thousand people at the church, so it was a big church, and there were seven associates, I think, and a senior pastor. So wow. So we uh we served there for five years. That's what got us to the Midwest. Um then I left the staff, kept going to the church, and started a small business. And as I was getting that going, I was asking God, so Lord, I I have these tasks I'm doing every day for work. It doesn't have the the gospel touch that I felt like I had every day at work when I was on the church staff. And so I believe you want me to serve the kingdom as well. It's just me and my company and you know my financial needs. So what what's an outlet for me? How how shall I, you know, other than you know, I believe that, you know, doing my job well in the marketplace is godly and important, and that's how I glorify God and being a light in a place that's generally dark, that those are really legitimate and true, but but I just I wanted another layer of direct investment in people. So yeah, I realized that I I knew a bunch of men. I was 46 at the time. I'd been in ministry 18 years by that point, and no one had ever discipled me, come alongside me one-on-one. And I had never done that either, although I was aware of that as a model, a ministry model, a life-on-life investment in somebody else. Um, I thought I think I think that might fit me because it would be flexible. I I know these guys, I have some rapport built with them already, and I'd like to pour into their lives more directly, even than I could as an associate pastor. So, but I was sitting at McDonald's one day early before going to work, and I realized I know, I know a lot of men through my five years in church ministry who who are believers and are are committed to church, they they're involved, they serve, they go. But when I bump into them in the middle of the week, they seem a little bit like a different person. And not over sin radiating off of their lives, but just like they they kind of lost the glow that they had on Sunday when I was with them. And so I started thinking, I'm not sure that if if I ask them, you know, I I see real evidence of of your faith in the Lord and your willingness to serve Him and others on Sunday when I see you, but how does that passion you know connect to the rest of your life, the other six and a half days of your week? And I get these blank stares back, like, I I don't know, like what do you mean? Um don't sleep with my secretary? Yeah, that's that's a good idea. What else? Um pay my taxes? Yeah, that's good. Be an upright, you know, person, obey the law, behave yourself. Yeah, those are all those are all great, those are legitimate expressions of your love for God, but what else? And it was just like I I guess like just not getting much trouble. Okay. So I thought, I think there's more for these guys than that, and I'd I'd love to help them capture what that is. And and to me, that was going to come through their personal uh delving into God's word for themselves. So I made a list of guys that I could think of that kind of fit this profile. And I in five minutes I wrote down 35 names of men that I knew in and around our city, mostly from the church I'd been at and was still at. I called up the first guy and I said, Hey, I got an idea for you. Uh, you can tell me to go jump in the lake if you don't like it. That's fine. We're good enough friends for you to tell me that. But I'd like to meet with you eight times in the morning before work for eight weeks in a row. And I want you to make a commitment that you'll be there. So say Tuesday mornings at 6:30, we'll meet from 6:30 to 7:30. That'll let you get to work at eight comfortably. We'll sit down and we'll we'll read the Bible together, we'll discuss it and we'll pray for each other. And when we're done, you're gonna either feel like that was worthwhile or not worthwhile. And whichever conclusion you make is fine. But I would like to invite you to make this firm commitment for eight times together in God's word for one hour. We'll start on time, we'll stop on time. Here's the date we'll start, here's the date we'll stop. And if you never want to do it again, that's absolutely fine. I will never pester you or raise my eyebrows like why aren't you keeping going or anything like that? It's you know, it won't change our friendship. But I will tell you that if it's valuable to you, and if you at the end of it, you ask me to keep going, I will say yes. So you know that. But clear on ramp, clear off ramp, here's what's expected. Here's a limited time frame, there's no homework involved. It's you and me as men who trust each other, listening to the God we love and serve by reading the Bible and talking about it and helping each other do what it says. What do you think? Well, that guy said yes, and the next six guys I called said yes. So the first seven guys I called said yes to this. So all of a sudden I had eight one-on-one appointments every week in my life, having never done that and really having no functional model because nobody had ever come alongside me and offered to help me and love me and walk with me that way. I'd had a lot of voices in my life, uh, and people that loved God and loved me, but but it was never a one-to-one conversation rooted in the word for growth with intentionality and structure. So I realized pretty quickly I don't really know what I'm doing. I mean, I can I can kind of fake it because I like people, I like to make friends. I believe the word is transformational and um and I know these guys, it was easy to start with this first group. So I reached out to the navigators because I knew the navigators were had spent 70 years at that time doing this. Now they've spent 90 years doing this with people. And um, I met a nav staff in Kansas City. I was uh I was in Topeka at the time, and so I started coming over here once a quarter and meeting with uh Dave Gross and Russell. And just I was just sharing with them what I was doing, and they would kind of pick my brain and give me some ideas, and I'd I'd go back and you know, give my whole heart to it for another quarter, and I'd come back and meet with them again. And so it was a kind of a coaching relationship four or five times a year over breakfast. And it was wonderful, really helpful. They are both longtime skilled practitioners of investing in another person, uh, either a not-yet believer or a Christian, helping them either come toward Christ or grow in Christ.

David Dennis 25:24

I have a question about the the eight-week format before we go on. Uh, a couple things. Number one is you used scripture only, no other booklet or resource. And what what did you read in in scripture? Just kind of whatever was there? Did you go through the Gospel of John, or how did you do that?

Doug Simmons 25:42

We uh we I started with, I think where I started in the early days was the the first four, well, the prison epistles. So basically Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, or Colossians. And one thing that I wanted another little idea that I used with guys who most of whom did not have a habit of a daily reading in scripture. One tool, different tool I used, which is an old navigator tool called Seven Minutes for God, which gives just a little structure. And it's the argument is look, you got seven minutes, everybody's got seven minutes somewhere in your day. So here's a little structure on how to get alone, get with your Bible, get with the Lord, and have this listening session where you're reading scripture and this talking where you're talking to him and commit your day to him and shut your Bible and go on. And of course, the idea is you know, sit it won't last seven minutes for very long. It'll it'll start to blossom in your life and it'll it'll grow into a longer time, time with God, longer devotional, quiet time, appointment with God, whatever you want to call it. That I used, and then another one, uh, another approach I used was uh to ask them just to read through a chapter of one of these books a day. So Colossians and Philippians have four chapters. So in four days, they'd read through the book of one of those books. And then I I called it repetitive reading. I learned this from uh um my brother-in-law who was in ministry in another state and had found this to be really helpful with men. So I copied what he did. Basically said, it takes, I don't know, it takes uh six minutes, four four minutes in some cases to read through one of those chapters. Just read it. Don't make notes, don't try to turn it into a sermon, don't pick the four best points, just just read it, just just pour it into your heart and move on. Uh tomorrow, do the same thing with the next chapter. And then don't stop until you've come to the end of the month with a with a four-chapter book like Philippians or Colossians. You're gonna read through it seven times in a month. The strategy there is just that you know, pouring the same chapter into a man's mind and heart seven times in a month, things are gonna start to hook. They're gonna catch, their thoughts are gonna come back to him as he's doing his daily work. Oh, well, this applies here. I just read this first yesterday and last week about patience or serving another or forgiving another because Christ has forgiven me. And then at the end of the month, either do do it again or choose a different book. So when we would meet, a couple things we'd do. One is we we would always read something. So if they were reading Philippians, we'd just say, Well, I'd say, Well, where are you? And he goes, Well, today's Philippians three. And I said, Okay, let's read it together. So we'd read it out together, and then I'd say, So today's the 17th. You you've read it three times so far. What's been hitting you in these uh these this set of verses? Well, kind of nothing the first couple couple times, but last week this idea hit me. And when as we read it again together today, it is kind of echoing. Okay, well, let's talk about that. So it's kind of you know, choosing the lowest hanging fruit is I don't I don't know what the Holy Spirit with with the word is gonna perk up in his heart, but I know God's gonna use the word to get his attention. And I don't know where his hardness of heart areas are, I don't know where his sin areas are, I don't know where his struggle and relationships are, but God does. So when you when you sit before the word and ask God to speak to you and your heart is open, and especially when you're doing it with a brother that loves you and loves God, it turns into great conversations. And honestly, we'd we'd have to fight to stop in an hour because man, you got to go to work. Yeah, I gotta go to work. I wish we could go longer. So it's it tended to leave them thirsty and looking forward to next week. And and I don't think any of those first guys said what they wanted to be done. I did later have some who would do it eight weeks and for one reason or another just say, I, you know, that was helpful, but I I can't keep going right now or whatever. And that that really was fine.

David Dennis 29:49

I'm I'm curious. Um, if you had asked those guys, the initial group of seven or eight guys, if you had asked them at the beginning, where are you now in your spiritual journey and where would you like to be, would they have been able to answer that where the gap is? Versus at the end, I'm guessing that they had a better understanding of where they would like to be and where God was calling them to be. Is that a fair assessment?

Doug Simmons 30:13

A small percentage of them might have been able to answer that with some clarity, but I think most of them would have just said, man, I I love the Lord, but honestly, I don't really know how my walk with Christ affects my job at the tire plant.

David Dennis 30:31

Right.

Doug Simmons 30:32

I make tractor tires. I've been there 22 years. I'm gonna retire with a good good pension. Everybody cusses and swears and sleeps with each other. I'm not doing that. Beyond that, I I don't know.

David Dennis 30:48

So this the Holy Spirit uses his word, doesn't he, in our lives to point out where he wants us to be, uh to aspire. So kind of I I view these seven or eight weeks as more of a um a time for them to develop thirst, as you were saying, for the Lord. I think that's cool. Very cool.

Doug Simmons 31:05

If you want to connect it to the four soils uh passages, uh it's it's the process of you know, we're both we're meeting to intentionally sprinkle God's word on our hearts because we believe that live seed will spawn or or germinate, yeah germinate. That's the word I want to thanks. Spawn is what a fish does, I guess. I'm confusing my flora and fauna. But um yeah, so uh there's there's just there's power in God's word, and this is what the Holy Spirit wants. This is how he teaches us truth through the word of the word of God. And so you almost can't not be changed when you when you sit under God's word, especially in a trusted context where you're discussing things that the spirit uh peaks in your heart. I think I think that can be true, say in other models, say sitting under a sermon. But but it's because the interactive nature of pulpit and congregation is not as personal. I think that a life on life conversation under the word has some ability to get to the corners of a heart more than a great faithfully preached sermon to the heart of the listener. I think it's legitimate. I think we should do it. I think our worship times should always have a strong pulpit, and and that matters that our preaching is accurate and good and truthful and faithful to God's word. But honestly, most people I know forget what the sermon was by Wednesday lunch. When you when you talk about it together, a passage in God's word, and you and you're specifically talking about the topic that popped in your heart, it it just really pours water and sun on that seed. And so the eight weeks allows us to kind of well, let's let's let's sit under the word and see what grows. And the things that are striking me probably aren't gonna be the same things that are striking him. I mean, Paul typically will make you know a dozen great theological points in a chapter or one of those books. I don't know which one of those is gonna pop for me or for him, but we're just following where the where the sprout happens. And then we would we would pour attention and prayer and you know, moisture and sun, so to speak, onto that. And then help it grow as much as it can grow in fixed season. And I just chose eight weeks because it seemed like that was long enough to let something start, and not too long that a guy would say no.

David Dennis 33:47

What an exciting approach. A way to help someone develop a thirst for more, more of Jesus, more of his word, and more transformation in his life. This is very inspiring to me, and I hope to use what Doug has taught in my own ministry. Well, join us next time as Mr. Doug Simmons shares some very practical advice on the use of the resource Ways of the Alongsider by Mill Memory. Right here on Making Disciples Naturally.