Be Interruptible with Andrea Fortenberry - #248

Sherri Crandall chats with Andrea Fortenberry about her Good Company curriculum video and how we can be more open to the interruptions of life.

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You can also find our cohosts on Instagram: @andreafortenberry, @ivymamma and @sherri_crandall.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to the Momco Leadership Podcast. We believe that life and leadership are better in community. We're here to equip and encourage you as a leader and we'll talk about real issues and practical tools to help you grow in your leadership, motherhood, and faith.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Welcome to the Momco Leadership Podcast. My name is Sherry Crandall and I get to be your host today. And I'm so excited because I'm actually interviewing our other co-host, but we're going to talk about something that she did this year for the Mom Co. Curriculum, and it was fabulous. I loved your video so much. And I think because it's something I've really had to work on in my life. And so I'm excited for you to bring to light this conversation. Andrea, welcome today to the podcast. Thank you, Sherry. I am excited to get to chat with you today. Awesome. Well, you made this video. As everybody knows, we have curriculum videos. And one of the things that you talked about this year, which I think is so important and it ties in with our theme so beautifully, is this idea of being interruptible. I want to start with um kind of what the instruction from God's Word says in Proverbs 19, 21. And it says, Many are the plans in a person's heart, but it is the Lord's purpose that prevails. And if that doesn't just like bonk in the head out of the right. For me it does because let's just start, many are the plans in a person's heart. I don't know about you, but I have an agenda and I have a plan and I like to work the plan, blah, blah, blah. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

And I know you do too. Yes. I think some of us just have that bent toward being a doer and an achiever. And so we make plans. Sometimes it's like life plans, right? Like when you're a young person, you're like, this is what I want my life to look like. But it can even be plans for your month or your week or your day of like, this is what I want to accomplish. And when it's just you, I feel like you can work that pretty well. But then I found in my life that as I got married and as I had kids, like that was no longer always working because there were lots of variables to consider outside of just myself.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Imagine that. Like I think sometimes, because I have young adult kids and you have teenagers, your daughter's heading off to college just a big graduation time. She has plans, that girl. She's got plans.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

But when you're a single person, it's so much easier to be like, I have plans. Because, like you said, the variables are little to none. Right. And as we get older and we become moms and leaders and all the things, there's so many variables that trip that up. So how did you learn or how are you learning to accommodate those other variables? And does it typically frustrate you? Do you like roll with the punches? Like what kind of girl are you when you respond to that?

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Well, I have definitely grown in this area because it was a struggle for me, especially when my kids were little of in my mind. I'm like, this is what our day is going to look like. And when there was something that interrupted that, whether that was someone didn't want to put their shoes on, or I remember one day I was like, okay, I think it was just Lila at the time. We're going to go to the story time at the library, but I needed to go to the ATM first. And the ATM ate my debit card. And so I had to get out, go inside, and we missed the story time. And I was so mad and frustrated about that. And I realized from that experience, not that I get snippy or rude often with people, but I feel like for me, I kind of did that day in the bank. And then I walked away thinking, like, wow, I really could have shown Jesus to this guy who was helping me, but I was kind of impatient and not so kind. So it just reminded me that really I think the interruptions help grow us and make us more can make us more like Jesus when we're open to them. And even though we have plans that may not align with the plans that God has for us in that day. And I also found that my my plans and to-do lists were often far beyond what my kids could handle. Sometimes I was like trying to drag them all these places because I want to get all these things done. They're melting down, they're throwing a fit, they're tired, they're hungry. And then I would get really frustrated. And so I had to learn, okay, I need to change my expectations of what our family unit, me plus my kids, plus my husband that were capable of that's beneficial to our family in a given time. And then also realizing that being a mom and a leader as well, like really the people are the most important thing, not the tasks or the goals or plans. Like all of those are important, but really how we love and treat people in the interruptions, I think is the bigger priority.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

That's such a good point, Andrea. I think I had to really adjust my expectations. I one of my weaknesses, I would say this is I overestimate what I'm capable of doing often. And I think I got that. There's no reason why I shouldn't be able to do that. And so you add one, and then I added two, and then I added three, and then I added four. So I had four kids and a husband and work, and I was still expecting the expectations often of when it was just me. Why? I mean, that doesn't even expect.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

I know why why do we do this? Why do we not change our expectations?

SPEAKER_00 6:01

One plus five people is six. And I was like, I still should be able to do all this by myself. So I learned that. But then I had this really wise woman who was also one of our pastor's wives, and she was a mentor to me. And she said something one day because I was kind of like, help me, like, how do you how did you do this? Like you have four kids, and how are you able to get all these things done? And she said, Oh, I just wasn't. And she said, You have to adjust your expectations and be open to holy disruption. Now, I'll be honest, when she said that to me, I was like, What does that even mean? You know, like holy disruption. And I was kind of irritated by it. I wasn't like, oh, yes, I should be listening to it. I wasn't, I wasn't. I'll be super transparent and say I just was annoyed by that. But I started looking at it differently. So you're trying to make dinner, trying to get this done. Have my oldest son who's creative, and he was just like so excited to show me something. And it was this Lego thing that he had put together. And I remember thinking it was maybe two days. This is a long time ago, but I remember it vividly because I think in the past I would have been like, mommy's making dinner, and when we're to finish with dinner, then you can show me. And I remember one time he just kind of knocked it over because he really wanted me to see it then. So that day I was like, okay, I'm gonna put into practice this holy disruption. I was like, Well, tell me about this. Like, what did you make? What is this? Oh my goodness, this child just I'll never forget because just the look in his eyes, he just came to life and was so excited about this make-believe, you know, kind of fort that he had created, and it was so fun. And I took me literally three minutes and I was asking questions and he was off doing the next thing. Right. He was finished, but the satisfaction, the rest of the time while I was getting things ready, he didn't, you know, interrupt or have me. I got everything finished, and he was so contented by just that really brief interaction and like look you in the eye, pay attention. And I was like, that's what it's a holy disruption. Like just in order to like connect with someone. So what you're saying, it's really more about the people than the actual task. And that took me a while to realize that the list being checked off was not as important as who I was doing those things for and who I was supposed to be connecting with instead. So a few years later, same lady still in my life, this is my favorite holy disruption. We were doing a women's conference and I was super tired, you know, at the end where you've gone for like weeks getting everything set up, and then you're doing the conference. And one of my friends who served on the team with me, she said, Hey, is there any way we can chat? Afterwards, I have a question for you. And my first response was, Oh my goodness, I'm tired, I need to get home. There's laundry, my son has a game tomorrow, blah, blah, blah. And then, you know, I heard Jackie's little voice going fully disrupted. So we had this amazing two-hour conversation in my car, which then resulted to another conversation where we brought our husbands together. They were interested in adopting. And because of that time that we spent, and then we went to dinner with them, and my husband said something that um changed what they say is the trajectory of their life. Our friend said, I think we're too old. I think I'm too old to do this. And my husband said, An old dad is better than no dad at all. And that just hit our friend so hard. And it was not an easy thing to get on the schedule, you know, to meet them for dinner and all of that. But because of that, they adopted two little girls who now are beautiful young women. But I think of that often, and I think, what are maybe some other things that maybe I missed out on or that I didn't get a chance to do because I was worried about being interrupted. Right. And so that's one of my favorite stories. Do you have something like that?

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Oh, I just love that. That's like goosebumps, tears in the eye story. And and, you know, it's interesting because we hear lots of messages about like boundaries and take care of yourself. You know, you were tired. All of those things I think are valid and important, but also we need to be open to what God might have for us versus what we have on our agenda, you know. And um, I just love that you were open to that. My mom has this little saying, she likes to say that it is blessed are the flexible, for she will not be bent out of shape. Oh gosh, that's really great. So I just I just love that because I it helped me to remember in those moments where I was upset and feeling bent out of shape about my plans, of like, okay, well, let's just instead be open to whatever is in this moment or this day. And I can always come back to whatever, whatever I had later. I have so many examples in my life of where friends have let me interrupt them. And you know, and I feel like all interruptions, some are small, some are big, and I'm grateful for that. And I have always appreciated being able to be that person for other people too, like allowing my agenda to get changed so that I can go out of my way to help someone. And one just little example, I reference it in the curriculum video, but I don't fully explain it. Is one of my friends was moving and she's unpacking, and she realized that her moving boxes for her living room were infested with bugs. They're called book lice. If you look at, if you want to look it up, like I don't know, I have one time. Yeah, like, and so she looked up the best way to get rid of them. And I think it was like hot water, and like we literally had to wipe down every item in these boxes. So she called me to tell me about it. She's really upset. And William was little at the time, Lila was already in school, and I said, give me 20 minutes and I'll be right there. And I brought William's pack and play because he was still napping then. And I said, I'm gonna sit with you. And so we sat in her driveway outside and wiped down all of these things. And I was just so grateful to be able to show up for her and to again just drop my agenda. Sometimes we just have so many barriers. We say, like, oh, well, William's got to take a nap. I can't come, I can come later, you know, whatever. I was like, you know what? This is important. And if it were me, I would hope someone could drop what they were doing to show up for me. So I got to do that for her, and she has done that, my friend Teresa, for me, in so many ways. She's actually the friend I mentioned in the video about Costco that we always get each other things.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Oh I love that, you know. I I think what you just said a little bit just a minute ago when you said there's boundaries and health, and you know, we can't always be so sacrificing of ourselves that it's not healthy, right? But I think that comes in tune with like really asking when Jackie said to me this holy disruption, it's being open to when God is saying, because there's other times where you're like, I really need to stick to this boundary because it's healthy for my family. But the discernment is something that we can be praying for, that we can be asking for. I think with our kids, with our families, but especially as we start leading, um, how often, you know, you get this leader who's burnout because she said yes, yes, yes, yes. Or you have a leader who says, I'm not sure why this lady left, but no one made the time when someone requested. Someone won't always come out and say to you exactly what they're hoping for or need, but they'll drop hints. Right. And they'll be like, you know, maybe they're struggling. Are we able and willing to listen to that so that we can be disrupted and then help? So I I think it's really important for us to say, yes, we're not telling you to say yes to everything, right? But we're asking you to be open and discerning to the times where it is important because otherwise I think I mean, that was such a big deal for us with our friends that they both adopted us well. Um, I would have been so sad to know that that didn't happen because we never took the time. Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Yeah, because it's easy to say, oh, we'll talk, we'll, you know, let's follow up later. And maybe you would have, but I just think it's really special that you know one yes led to lots of other yeses in in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

So yeah, yeah, I love that you have this friend that you just uh called because picking up other stuff for other people at a store is not an easy thing to do. It's called commitment girl. And I'm really impressed by that. So you you just shared with us, like as you have aged or maybe matured in your mothering and leadership, you're more open to that. Um, I think some people are just very laid back and are open to interruptions, and others aren't. What would you say to the person who is like, nope, I don't do that? What would you do to encourage them maybe to be interruptible? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

I think really one tool we can use is the golden rule of where Jesus says to love others as we love ourselves. And so when I'm in situations where I need help, like I want people to show up for me. And that means someone has to be interrupted. And so when we flip it around and think, okay, I have this opportunity, this isn't what I had planned, but I can be in a deeper relationship with someone. I can love someone like Jesus loves me. And that is always to me motivation, not in a way of like trying to earn or prove or anything like that, but just showing God's love to people because the truth is life is super messy and unexpected, and lots of things just happen that often we don't have control over. Our sink goes out, or you know, we get a flat tire, we need a ride somewhere. Like those are the things of everyday life that just happen to all of us. And so it's really using the mindset of opportunity when those things happen, opportunity for relationship, opportunity to again show someone's God's love, show someone God's love that can really be, I think, eye-opening and motivating to help us get out of our comfort zone, drop our plans, and be able to say yes to that.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

We laugh. Um, there's someone we know, I will just say that in our family, my family, that if that is on the agenda for the day, that's the way it goes. Like they, you know, hey, you want to meet for lunch? Nope, I have to do A, B, C. Oh, well, this is the only time I could meet in a few weeks. I would love, could you just sneak away for coffee? Nope, I have to do A, B, C. And what that says to me is that I'm not as important as your bank errand. I'm not as important as whatever was on that to-do list. When in reality, I know that this person loves me dearly. So, how often have I been on the flip? And am I telling my husband or my kids or the people that I'm leading that their need isn't as important as what it means for me to cross off the list. Um, and I think God does that so well for us. He has allowed us to come to him in prayer anytime 24 hours a day. Like you could, we could be talking right now and just drop and just start praying, and he would be there and listen. That's amazing. And he allows us to interrupt him all the time. All the time, all the time. I'm sure sometimes he was like, Sherry, I'm a little busy at the moment. Could you keep that to yourself? I don't know. I'm just teasing, but I do know that I feel comfortable that I can do that. And so, in turn, am I creating a space where people feel comfortable that they would be, that I would be one of the people they would call if they needed help? Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

And really, when we look at the gospels, Jesus was interrupted so many times as he was on his way to heal somebody. Like he's walking along the road and someone needs something from him. And I think he just shows us really just so beautifully how to love people, even though we had a plan of where to go, like being open to stopping and caring for someone. And then at the same time, he also prioritized that quiet time with God, prayer, solitude, all of those things. But he also, I think, shows us really well how to love people in the interruptions.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

I think an important reminder for me is that it often like the the best solution is and both. So I don't think he's saying, like, and he modeled that for us so well, right? So yes, he was on his way and he was doing things he would allow to be disrupted. And sometimes he would be like, you know, don't worry, we got this, or he'd continue doing what he was doing, but he would still meet that need. Right. And I think that and both, we don't have to be people who are solely focused on ourselves and getting that done, but we also don't have to, you know, say yes to everything so that we aren't. And so it is this and both that creates this really healthy, interruptible thing.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

I should add one quick thought is that as leaders, and I think as moms too, that have that achiever kind of bent is that we like to do a lot of things. And so we are just like scheduled to the max, we are so active and involved in a lot of things. But I have found that being able to say yes to interruptions means I need to have some margin in my life. And when I'm overextended and over-scheduled and overwhelmed in my everyday life, that I'm less prone to saying yes or to feeling open to be interrupted. And so I think that's just something really important for us to remember that not every hour of our day should be scheduled, that we should have some margin to be open to God's plans instead of all the plans that we have.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

It's really good. I um talk a lot about creating white space on our calendar because I was so bad at it. And I remember one time I really wanted to get together with these girls for coffee. And we had some things we were kind of working through was going to be where our kids were going to school and how this was working. That was important. But by the time everyone looked at their calendar, it was like a five-month wait for five people to get together. But we knew we had to do that. So who was going to give and who was going to like be flexible to move things around? And it was after that that I thought that is actually ridiculous. Because when I was a kid, we would just have a neighbor show up to the door. Or, you know, just come over. We never had to like plan an excursion to my grandparents, we just showed up at the door. Um When you would make a phone call, you would just make a phone call or write a letter, you know, some of this analog that we're talking about this year. There was so much more room for spontaneity than, and because we're so scheduled to the minute, like if you look at your phone and your calendar or like a day like today for work, like you and I have joked before, like you have to almost schedule a time to like grab a glass of water and go to the bathroom. That's really not smart. Um, we need to build in margin. So, what does that look like? And I think it's a practice that we're not good at. Do you have any tips or tricks that you use to help you with that?

SPEAKER_01 22:42

So I just really try to look at my calendar and have some times throughout the week where it's not planned, or I do put like a little block of self-care, or actually, I have a block in the morning that's like breakfast, quiet time, exercise. Like I block it off and I don't always have it blocked to the minute, but it's just like this open block of time. And so for those of us that have trouble with spontaneity, you could even put on your calendar, like this day is blocked off, or this evening for your family to just find something fun to do. So you can kind of plan spontaneity a little bit. I also think with margin is just looking at the commitments that you have. And we're really good at adding things, we're not so good at taking things away. And so when something comes to a close, whether it's like the end of your mom co year, the end of a Bible study, the end of your kids' sports season, like use that as like a signal to rest and not pick anything else up if possible for a little while so that you have that time for just space to breathe and recuperate and rest. And actually, in in my life right now, I had the craziest, bus, busiest full May I have ever had. And this month I really want to focus on rest. So, what does that look like? It means, yeah, that I don't schedule things every day, that I keep a Saturday open so that yes, I'm gonna do things. It doesn't mean I'm gonna be a slug and not get anything done, but it just means it's open time so that when I wake up in the morning, I think, okay, Lord, what what do you have for me? Will we put together the shed that we recently purchased or will we do laundry and housework and rest? Or will we go to have lunch with friends? Like we'll see. It'll be a surprise. And sometimes I think we have trouble with that because we want to have it all planned out. But sometimes we have to just wait and see.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

I think I have learned something in the last three months of um going through cancer treatment and having my schedule not be my own schedule. So I don't get to pick the days that work for me. I have to pick the days and times that work for the hospital team.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

And I actually really fought that and hated it because I'm like, I have a schedule. This is but what I have learned is I had to build in margin for this. Um, and to rest. I have to build in margin, otherwise I fall pretty quickly. But what that's also taught me is I'm still very productive. I'm getting everything that I need to, and I'm not going at a break my neck speed. So that tells me something. What does that say? I don't need to be going at break your neck speed to be productive to get things accomplished and also to take care of yourself. And so just because you might have that white space doesn't mean you need to fill that white space. So even though you would think I would know that by now, I just am not wired that way. And so I'm really working through that. And it's been such a good lesson to say, wow, I can still be very productive and not miss a beat on things, but be more rested and still get done what I need to get accomplished both with my health and with my work. And um, so I think it's something a lesson I want to do moving forward is uh creating that that space to where you have time to think more about things or to process things instead of just go from one thing to the next. So I'd encourage our leaders, um, you have natural times in your life that sort of lend to that and other times that don't. And when it doesn't, I think we need to figure out how you can create time to either be interruptible or to to rest. Like we're saying, that's also interrupting your daily habit to rest. Yeah, for sure. Well, you you mentioned in the video five things to work on this year, and I want you to touch base on that. And then I think um I've tied it to some things that I think are really good life lessons to teach our kids. So would you share with us kind of what you talked about, like some ways that we can think positively about interruption?

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Yes, I think overall, without saying all five of them, which off the top of my head I think I can remember three or four, but that's okay. But really, it's to see interruptions as opportunities. And it could be an interruption of, yeah, a friend calls you that she needs you to come help her with something. Maybe the interruption is that you've just met someone new and you want to connect with this person and get to know them. And maybe also they're different from other people that you have in in your life. And it could be age, it could be, you know, lots of different things, but that could be just an interruption to how you normally go about your day. And so seeing them not as obstacles, but opportunities is really, I think, just maybe the filter or the lens that we want to look through and and remember that going back to Proverbs 19, 21, that the Lord's purposes will prevail. And often I have found like the interruptions are those holy disruptions or they're intentional and God's gonna bring something really good out of it. And so just being open to that, I especially in those moments where it's a frustrating interruption. Again, you have a flat tire, like something like that, to just remember, okay, God, you knew, you knew this was gonna be part of my day. So what do you have for me? What do you want me to learn? So just having that curious, sort of teachable spirit can really make all the difference because at the end of the day, the tire is gonna get fixed, right? So we can either go about our day being grumpy and mad and rude to everybody that we are around, or we can just take care of it, like be open. We can be cheerful to the people fixing our tire, or when we have to call a friend, we're like, okay, you know, I need to ride to the tire shop, but then we get a few minutes with our friend that we wouldn't have had otherwise. So just being open and appreciative of the interruptions and and what they can teach us and what can come from them, I think is is huge.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

I was thinking what would be a good lesson that we could like pass down to our kids. But sometimes I feel like the lessons I want my kids to know are also the lessons that I want my team to know, you know, as you're leading a team. And so interruptions for me, I wrote down three things. I think it teaches us to be better communicators because sometimes it's out of your control what is interrupting you. And so you have to be able to communicate that or also say, I'm frustrated by this, or you know, stop and pause and allow that interruption to happen. So it's our tone, how we look at someone that we're not like, what do you want? kind of a thing. Right. Like, you know, how can I help you? Or what is it that you know is happening that I I can be a good listener or come pick you up at the tire store or whatever. So I think it it helps us with communication with our teams, but also with our kids. I also think it helps promote collaboration because sometimes, especially at work, when someone says, Hey, can I talk to you about something? That usually means like we're doing it this way. And when I allow that interruption to happen and really be a good listener, it makes me go, oh, we could probably do that better. Maybe we should collaborate together or we should include another team as part of this process. But I have seen that some of our better work happens when it's interrupted in the first place. So teaching our kids like maybe it's a good interruption because you need to partner with this person. You know, the whole team project thing is something we all hated in school.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

But there are great lessons from that. And some of that I think is collaboration. And then the last thing, I think it just encourages us to be adaptable. And I think it's hard when little kids are super rigid and they're not open to I think what like God is showing them or what could be possibility in their life if they've been so trained to be like, nope, this is how we do it. And we have to model that well in order for them to pick it up, right? So by me being like, what do you want? Or I'm trying to do this, what do you need? Instead, modeling that well teaches our kids to be more adaptable.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

So true. So much of our little habits and responses and things we teach them. It's more caught than taught. And so, like you're saying, just our tone, just how we stop when someone is requesting our attention. Those are really important things that they are picking up from us. And I think they also will learn is my mom is this leader, whoever in their life, do they prioritize people or tasks? And at the end of the day, it's always it should always go back to people, loving and caring for people. One of my pastors, and I mentioned it in the video, he he always has said that life is about relationships. Everything else is just details. And when we think about that, it's so true. Like we want people to feel seen, known, and loved. So when they interrupt us, how do we treat them? Whether it's our children, whether it's a stranger or a friend that calls, like we have to just remember, like, okay, Lord, you designed us for community and to love one another. And the tasks and the things will always be there in some form. But how I love and care for people who need me, even if it's a little thing, if it's a big thing, that's really what matters at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

That's so true. I love that quote so much. Life is about relationships, everything else is just details. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for your time today and for um just this amazing video. I hope you all will download it and watch it and share it, talk about it with your community because I just think it's really something that's very valuable and important as women all over the world are seeking a place to belong and we can offer that to them. So thank you so much, Andrea. I just so appreciate you and your time today. This was a great conversation.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Thanks, Sherry. It was super fun. Leaders, we know that your time is valuable. We're proud of you for investing in yourself by listening in today. We know that when you invest in mom, you change the world. We believe in you and we're doing it.