How Leaders Demonstrate Self-Compassion - Massimo Backus

In today’s episode, I chat with Massimo Backus, a Seattle, Washington-based Executive Coach. Massimo helps Leaders lead authentically, navigate their career intentionally, and grow high performing teams successfully. 

His philosophy is that of leadership without judgment. To not judge oneself, others, or the process (the context of any situation.) It is from this judgment-free place that Massimo believes leaders truly seek to understand, lead with compassion, and learn and grow beyond the old beliefs, stories, and patterns.

In the discussion, Massimo & I cover a lot of interesting topics. From his background & experiences. How he helps leaders deploy kindness, and self-compassion. We chat about one of my favourite books, Viktor Frankl’s Man’s Search for Meaning, and the importance of gratitude and resilience, particularly in these trying times.

It was such a pleasure connecting with Massimo. And I hope you enjoy it.


Massimo Backus

As a certified professional coach, Massimo Backus offers his clients an invitation onto a lifelong path of personal evolution and creating environments where everyone can thrive. By combining a deep curiosity and expertise in organizational behaviour psychology and team dynamics, Massimo cultivates increased emotional intelligence and agility. His coaching combines assessment, skill development, deliberate practice, accountability, an organizational systems thinking to create behaviour change that sticks.

Outside of coaching, he is a dynamic and powerful speaker at corporate events for high-growth organizations to ignite culture and drive behaviour change. He blends the latest leadership and behavioural science, and talent development strategies to help his clients achieve lasting business outcomes.

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Constraints drive innovation. We tackle the most complex issues related to work & culture. And if you enjoy the work we’re doing here, consider giving us a 5-star rating, leaving a comment & subscribing. It ensures you get updated whenever we release new content & really helps amplify our message. 

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Matt Burns

Matt Burns is an award-winning executive, social entrepreneur and speaker. He believes in the power of community, simplicity & technology.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Guest 1: And it is that resilience that actually gives us the space to be more compassionate towards others, which there's no time like the present for [00:00:10] leaders to be more compassionate and courageous for their teams and in their organizations[00:00:20] 

[00:00:27] Matt: constraints drive in. Hey [00:00:30] everyone. It's Matt here for another episode of thinking inside the box, a show where we discuss complex issues related to work and culture. If you're interested in checking out our [00:00:40] other content, you can find us at bento, hr.com and wherever you find your favorite podcasts by searching, thinking inside the box.

And if you enjoy the work we're [00:00:50] doing here, consider leaving a five star rating. A comment. And subscribing it ensures you get updated whenever we release new content and really helps amplify our [00:01:00] message. In today's episode, I chat with Mamo BAAs, a Seattle Washington based executive coach Mamo helps leaders lead authentically, [00:01:10] navigate their career intentionally and grow high performing teams successfully.

His philosophy is that of leadership without judgment to not [00:01:20] judge one's. Others or the process. It is from this judgment place that Mamo believes leaders truly seek to understand [00:01:30] lead with compassion, learn and grow beyond the old beliefs, stories and patterns in the discussion Mamo. And I [00:01:40] cover a lot of interesting topics from his background and experiences to how he helps leaders deploy kindness.

And self-compassion. We also [00:01:50] chat about one of my favorite books, Victor Frankel's man search for meaning and the importance of gratitude and resilience. Particularly in these trying times, [00:02:00] it was such a pleasure connect with Massimo and I hope you enjoy it. And now I bring you Mamo Backus. [00:02:10] Masimo. You're just down the highway from me in the Seattle area.

I am looking forward to this conversation. How are you today? 

[00:02:16] Guest 1: Likewise, Matt, I'm doing really well and I'm looking forward to [00:02:20] this conversation also before we get 

[00:02:21] Matt: into it. And I know we have a couple of topics that I'm super eager to get into. I'd love to hear bit more about you, your background, and, uh, what 

[00:02:28] Guest 1: brought you to today.

So [00:02:30] today I spend my time as an executive coach and a leadership development practitioner and. And in position where I wake up most days and I'm [00:02:40] like, I can't believe that I get to do work that I love, and that has a, a meaningful, lasting, transformative impact on the people that I'm fortunate to work with.

[00:02:50] And, you know, over the last, you know, several years, I've been doing a lot of reflection on what's the notion of what it means to be an adult. Maybe you've asked yourself this, you know, at what point in time am I going to realize that [00:03:00] I, that I actually feel like an adult cause at 41, the age hasn't necessarily, um, provided some prominent, you know, clarity around, you know, you are now, you're now fully [00:03:10] an adult, even as, you know, someone with a, a spouse and, and children and all of that.

But I reflected back on, you know, what's my journey been to [00:03:20] getting here and, you know, insights for our passion and our purpose come in the most unusual places. And I dropped outta college, my sophomore year of high school. [00:03:30] And, uh, as any college dropout would, would find themselves in a position where jobs were not plentiful.

I ended up, uh, doing door to door sales. I was really good at it. And I [00:03:40] built big sales teams. And what I found in that work was an opportunity to help other people find their purpose and help them build confidence and resilience and the power that [00:03:50] that comes from being able to connect and communicate with people from all different walks of life and find, you know, shared purpose and common ground.

And that was kind of the lightning rod [00:04:00] moment. Is something that I've been chasing ever since. So for the last 20 plus years, from that moment doing door-to-door sales, I have continued to, um, develop my [00:04:10] skills and expertise and experience in, uh, mindset and self-awareness emotionally intelligent leadership.

And that's what I bring to my clients today in the [00:04:20] context of executive coaching and leadership development. So 

[00:04:23] Matt: let's talk a bit about those early days. When I, when I think about door to door sales, I think about a lot of doors being. In your face. [00:04:30] Tell me a bit about what that was those first few months were like what you learned about yourself, about resilience, about how to, how to just, if you will [00:04:40] endear yourself, the people you're talking to in a format that is challenging.

[00:04:43] Guest 1: Say the least. Well, yeah, I mean, it's incredibly challenging, you know, uh, not proud to say it now, but [00:04:50] you know, you see a no soliciting sign and you walk right by that to go into the business, to, to try and, you know, sell somebody something. But the idea of rejection that comes outta that is that you realize that it's not about [00:05:00] you it's that, that it might not be a good fit for that person.

And, and that's okay. And I approached any of those conversations as I do now, which is let's strike up a [00:05:10] conversation. Let's see if there's common ground. If you have a need and I have something that could help, uh, facilitate meeting that need, then there's a fit. And if not, then we're still good [00:05:20] people going through our, our lives, the best we can.

And, and we part ways. So not being attached to the outcome so much has been a mantra. You know, there's a, there's an element of just [00:05:30] surrendering to the things that you can't control, what you can control is what's your demeanor. What is your quality of being, what is your intent and ensuring that your intent and the impact of your [00:05:40] intent are aligned.

Those are the things you can control, but you can't always control the outcomes. And since I started my business, uh, about two years ago, I [00:05:50] haven't taken a single sales meeting. I don't feel like I've done any sales. All I do is I, you know, talk to organizations and leaders and understand what problems they're facing and [00:06:00] see if there's a fit and opportunity for me to be able to help them with that, that perspective.

Put in a position where rejection isn't even an option. It is just a [00:06:10] matter of, is there a fit here or not? 

[00:06:12] Matt: I'm gonna ask the follow up question. The answer might be the same, but I'm just curious because I, I talk to folks all day long in, in a variety of roles and you know, whether it's [00:06:20] in sales roles or recruitment roles or marketing roles, individuals that are having to.

A degree of influence and persuasion with prospective clients or clients. [00:06:30] And I'm curious how you learned to decouple self-worth 

[00:06:33] Guest 1: from all that my worth is not defined by a. Another person [00:06:40] saying yes, or liking what I have to say for me, it's about what value am I able to add? Uh, what good am I able to [00:06:50] do in the world?

And what opportunities are there for me to learn in any given situation? So if there is an ability to influence and it goes, well, [00:07:00] what can I learn from that? If it doesn't go well, what can I learn from that? I have an approach to everything as an opportunity to learn the, the best of times. And the hardest of times are always an opportunity for us to [00:07:10] be curious about ourselves.

Curious about others and curious about the process and the processes. Anything that we're in any moment, this conversation right now is a process. And I can be curious about [00:07:20] what's happening here. What's the. How am I thinking and feeling about this conversation, being curious about you and the questions you're asking and your background and your perspective on things and having [00:07:30] that perspective of curiosity can separate you from the outcome.

And I find that when I'm not tied to the outcome, that, um, the outcomes that [00:07:40] you, that you seek, they, they still come that. I was just listening to a, a podcast with Jay shedding, who, who wrote a book called think like a monk. And he's a big, [00:07:50] um, thought leader in the space of, of mindfulness and meditation.

And he was talking about recognizing that there is a distinction between the [00:08:00] outcomes that we strive to and the process. And that the process is really where we need to be focusing our efforts. If we, if we focus on the [00:08:10] process, if we give our full selves into something, if we do our best work, if we seek to continue to learn, if we surround ourselves with, um, people that are smarter and, and brighter than us, that we can [00:08:20] learn from then the outcome will take care of itself.

I find so many times with the leaders that I work with. There's such a focus on the outcome. And once the outcome is achieved, I just got [00:08:30] promoted. Well, all of a sudden they're like, well, what's the next promotion? What do I have to do to get there? As opposed to the process of being, I am in a position where every day I get to do this work, I get to work with these [00:08:40] people.

I get to, I initiate change in this organization. I get to create something of value for society. The day to day process is the gift. 

[00:08:49] Matt: It's a [00:08:50] wonderful sentiment. And I, I couldn't agree with you more. And I asked the question because let's be honest. Last three years have been challenging for the vast majority of us.

[00:09:00] Um, in fact, I can't think of somebody that I've talked to. Who's told me that the last three years I've been the best three years of their life. right. And. Yeah, we're inundated with [00:09:10] Instagram posts and, uh, examples of people rising through challenges and having big wins. And I often ask the question about self-compassion [00:09:20] and what's happening behind the computer screen and how kind are people being to themselves.

And I can speak from personal experience. I haven't always been kind to myself over the last three [00:09:30] years, put a lot of pressure on myself, have a business, have employees have a brand, have people that count on me and look to me for support or guidance or, you know, [00:09:40] you know, even just a steady hand and. It hasn't always been easy.

So I'm curious about your thoughts just broadly on self-compassion and perhaps how it relates to [00:09:50] leadership. I think 

[00:09:51] Guest 1: people get tripped up with the concept of self-compassion because of some assumptions that can be made about it, that it is about self pity or that it [00:10:00] is a sign of weakness or being soft that I'm going to give myself a pass that I'm not going to hold myself accountable to higher standards.

And. Nothing could be further from the [00:10:10] truth, the practice of self-compassion and, and is not dissimilar to the concept of compassion, which is about having empathy with action, which is, I feel with you, what it [00:10:20] is that you are feeling. And I want to alleviate that suffering compassion is to suffer with self-compassion is to be able to suffer with self, but with action.

So it's a [00:10:30] recognition of, yeah, the last three years have been incredibly hard. And to understand that that's one. Not just your lived experience, but that you're not alone. [00:10:40] There's a common humanity. Others are also suffering in that, whether it be from being at home with your families and having, you know, the, the big workload or the responsibilities of running a [00:10:50] business and having a team, having high standards and expectations for yourself, all of those things are recognition that I'm not alone in.

And, and that helps us to go from being [00:11:00] isolated to recognizing, yeah, this is a human experience and it normalizes it. The second piece of it is about being mindful of what is the experience that you're having. What am [00:11:10] I feeling in this moment? What am I thinking? What thoughts are driving certain emotions.

And when we can label an emotion where you are able to process it much more quickly, [00:11:20] it's when we repress emotions or we deflect them that we end up turning them into actually ruminating thoughts. An emotion that is, that is recognized [00:11:30] and processed can be gone in six seconds, but an emotion that we ruminate on can last weeks and lead into many other emotions.

And, and that's what really gets [00:11:40] us into places of stress and anxiety and burnout and depression, because we're not able to effectively process these things. And a big piece of it is that when we think [00:11:50] about our emotions, we have feelings about our feelings. How often do you get frustrated? Because you got angry with someone.

Or you are disappointed with yourself [00:12:00] because you had a, a, you know, a strong emotion and it didn't, um, it wasn't received well by another person. So when we have emotions about our emotions, we're essentially being self-judgment [00:12:10] and the notion in self-compassion is to recognize our emotions without judgment.

Right now I'm feeling frustrated recognizing that, okay, what can I do to alleviate that [00:12:20] frustration? What is that frustration telling me about an unmet need that I have? And then what can I do to address that unmet need? And this could happen in, in [00:12:30] many, many small things. It could be turning off your video when you're on zoom, it could be taking a meeting and saying, let's go for a walk during this meeting instead of sitting in our computer, um, it could be recognizing, [00:12:40] uh, you know, I'm hungry.

I haven't eaten all day, so I'm going to eat. There are many small things that we can do throughout the day that are practices in self-compassion that help us build [00:12:50] resilience. And it is that resilience that actually gives us the space to be more compassionate towards others, which there's no time like the present for leaders to [00:13:00] be more compassionate and courageous for their teams and in the organizations.

I couldn't agree 

[00:13:05] Matt: more with your last sentiment. As a leader, we have a greater responsibility. The people that we work [00:13:10] with who work for us. Who we support, who we champion. And a lot of times for leaders, it's difficult to put your hand up and [00:13:20] say that you need help. And it's difficult to extend.

Compassion to yourself, because there's an expectation that you need to just show up that [00:13:30] you're being paid the big bucks to work through challenges and to be to a degree invincible. And what I love about your sentiment is [00:13:40] that you're in, in a way pro uh, providing permission that we have bad days, we have bad weeks, we have bad months and we [00:13:50] also aren't all starting from or getting off at the same place.

And one thing I've learned time and again, throughout life, but in particular, in the last three [00:14:00] years is that we were all dealt the same hand. Some people have been through the last three years and have gone through significant emotional, financial, personal [00:14:10] hardship. Other individuals have had challenges, no doubt, but they've been by comparison, maybe not as exaggerated.

And I think. [00:14:20] It's a starting point. Just the acknowledgement of that. And. Avoiding the trappings of playing the comparison game well said, and [00:14:30] being able to self diagnose to a degree. I think Massimo for me, I, I look back at my own experience and how often I over [00:14:40] rod overrode a lot of these. Emotions, you're talking about where I'd be frustrated or anxious or depressed, or, you know, sad about [00:14:50] something and just push it down, stuff it away.

And yeah. You know, that will resolve it. And to your point, it doesn't resolve it. It just continues to compound over [00:15:00] time and it would inevitably leak out in other area. A conversation that I have with my partner at the end of a work day or how I reacted to an employee, bringing a problem to me, [00:15:10] or even just how I'd respond to a, a general hardship around my local sports team and how they played last night and, you know, pay [00:15:20] me now, pay me later.

Um, The self awareness around how you're doing and an acknowledgement of that. You might need to take a minute and go for a, as you mentioned, go for that [00:15:30] walk or meditate for 15 minutes or adjust your diet in the short term, an acknowledgement of ultimately, when it's all said and done, we only have [00:15:40] one life and we can choose to live the days on this.

In one way, which is chasing what's happening and reacting to what's occurring around us, or [00:15:50] we can try and get ahead of it and do our best to show up the way we would love to show up. Even if circumstances aren't ideal. [00:16:00] Hey everyone, it's Matt here. I hope you're enjoying today's discussion. And before we continue, I want to make you aware of my latest creative project this week at work [00:16:10] presented in partnership with my good friend, Chris Rainey of HR leaders.

Each Friday will live stream on LinkedIn at 7:00 AM. Pacific standard time. That's 10:00 [00:16:20] AM Eastern standard time and 3:00 PM GMT for our European viewers and together bringing the latest trends news on topics emanating from [00:16:30] organizations. Everything from culture to technology and the future of work joining is easy.

Just follow me on LinkedIn, click the bell at the top right hand side of my [00:16:40] profile, and you'll get notified when we go live each week. And whether you do experience the content live or later, if you've been following me for a while, you'll no doubt recognize the fun banter [00:16:50] Chris and I have developed over the years and whether it's been podcasts or digital events.

We're so excited to, again, bring you the topics affecting today's workplaces and their leaders. [00:17:00] And now back to our discussion,

[00:17:05] Guest 1: there's a lot in what you just said, Matt. And I wanna, I wanna unpack that. And, and it, and it [00:17:10] reminds me of the very famous prolific quote from Victor Franco around the space between stimulus and response is our choice and freedom [00:17:20] in order for us to be able to effectively. Go from being reactive to responding, to take advantage of that space between stimulus and response, we need to be able to [00:17:30] practice self-compassion.

It is in that moment that we can reflect on what is my experience. What's happening for me. And what do I want to do with that information? [00:17:40] When we are in go mode and we're executing all the time, we're driven by to-do list and we're in back to back meetings and we have all these priorities and expectations for other people and high expectations from ourselves.[00:17:50] 

We eliminate the opportunity for us to be able to take advantage of the space between stimulus and response. It doesn't need to be a lengthy endeavor. This isn't something you need to carve out [00:18:00] time for. It could be taking a beat. It could be taking a. Be pausing before you respond a few weeks ago, I was hiking in Italy between bologna and Florence.

It's called the [00:18:10] path of the gods was on these ancient Roman roads. And along the trail, I met many Italians in a very common Italian phrase is ALO and ALO means like [00:18:20] so, or, well then it's essentially a, a pausing word that says, I hear you. Let me collect my thoughts. And what that represents to me is [00:18:30] this opportunity to say, I hear you, let me make sure that I understand what's the stimulus.

And I choose how I respond as opposed to just being reactive. [00:18:40] So I think that that is an important thing for us to be mindful of throughout the day. And that this happens in moments, whether it be in a meeting coming out of a meeting, going into a meeting, [00:18:50] or even when you're trying to have focused strategic thinking time.

To get yourself in the right mindset to be able to do that or to recognize maybe there's something going [00:19:00] on for me right now, that is preventing me from being able to be in the right mindset right now this week, I'm doing a lot of strategic work for my business. And I realize sitting at the computer was not working for [00:19:10] me and I wasn't gonna be productive.

And thank goodness the sun finally came out here in Seattle. So I decided to take my computer and I went to a. And [00:19:20] I was able to be much more productive and there was sight and sounds and people playing in the park and all these things, but just changing my environment, allowed me to get into the right head space.[00:19:30] 

But I had to take a beat to recognize that I could have just stayed at my desk at home and tried to just will myself through it. Cuz I knew that I needed to get these things [00:19:40] done. So that was a practice in self-compassion. I took action. I was still holding myself accountable to getting the work done, but I took a beat to figure out what I needed.

Another thing that you [00:19:50] mentioned that I think is really important is this notion that, that we as leaders, that we are somehow invincible. And the reality is when we grow up in organizations, we are [00:20:00] just modeling behavior. That's being taught to us and we're just modeling what we believe management looks like.

And somewhere along the line, we forget that we're human first. And then [00:20:10] we are people that are striving to be leaders. And leadership is something that is a, a daily effort. It's not a title every day presents an opportunity. Am I gonna show up like a [00:20:20] leader today? Or am I not? When we put this pressure on ourselves of being invincible, of having all of the right answers of, um, holding ourselves to these high [00:20:30] expectations or at worst, the expectations that we frame in our mind based on social comparison, as you mentioned, then we are setting ourselves up for failure because [00:20:40] we are neglecting the, the very vital truth, which is we are humans having a human experience.

Trying to do our best in, in achieving [00:20:50] these truly ambitious goals and that nothing good happens by just one individual that we are a social species and that it is actually the [00:21:00] collective. It is the team that is what produces the result. So another fallacy on leadership is that our ego can get in the way and we can start to think I'm the one that's supposed to make this [00:21:10] happen, or if it doesn't happen, it's all on me.

And it's much more nuanced than that. And. For anyone that finds themselves stuck [00:21:20] with social comparison, they should be thinking about what data am I consuming? Uh, you know, a few years back, I, um, deleted all of my social media accounts, [00:21:30] cuz I found that when I spent time on there afterwards, I felt less good than before I went on that.

I wasn't able to celebrate all these people on these amazing vacations and [00:21:40] doing all these amazing things because I wasn't in a place where I. Had a sense of self-worth and I wasn't practicing self-compassion for myself years later, I'm now able to do that and I can [00:21:50] celebrate all of those things and I'm happy for that.

But I had to have this self-awareness to recognize right now, this social comparison is not helping me because I'm seeing it as [00:22:00] othering or I'm positioning, uh, people as better or worse than me, as opposed to being curious and, and genuinely, um, supportive of whatever another person's experience [00:22:10] is. Even if it's different than my.

Well 

[00:22:11] Matt: to not get caught up in that, in the habit or the trap of assuming that somebody's social media, you know, avatar [00:22:20] is. What's really happening in their life. Yes. That sometimes what you see on the surface is very different than what's happening underneath the surface. [00:22:30] And, uh, but it's easy when you're not feeling good or you're anxious or you're depressed.

And you see constant images and, and affirmations of people who are on [00:22:40] vacations and smiling with their spouses and looking fit and dressing wonderfully and having wonderful experiences and all these different things. It's easy to. Why can't that be me? Why, [00:22:50] why do I have to, why, why can't I have some of that and it's this sense of lack, the sense of scarcity mindset that is, is poisonous to a lot of us.

And [00:23:00] you mentioned Victor Frankel. One of my favorite books, as I'm sure is for you, man's search for meaning written in 1946. It's a book that I read at least once a [00:23:10] year. Um, I've probably read it 20 times. It is the ultimate dose of gratitude. Yes and shifting perspective on. [00:23:20] What is happening around you for those who aren't familiar with the book, I'm gonna link it in the show notes of this podcast.

I would highly recommend that you read it. It tells the story of a, [00:23:30] essentially a gentleman who was in the Nazi concentration camps during world war II. And he also was a. A mental health practitioner. So he describes [00:23:40] his psychotherapeutic method and talks about it during his experience. And as you can appreciate living in those conditions, there was a lot of very, very dark days.

[00:23:50] And I believe he was in Auschwitz and J just hearing that story and hearing how he talked about it and hearing his experience and the things that were taken from him, [00:24:00] how he was able to keep a small bit of himself in amongst. A whole lot of tragedy and a whole bunch of just heartbreak and, and [00:24:10] frankly, just a horrible experience for any individual to go through is incredibly inspirational and definitely puts things in perspective.

So thank you for bringing it up. Massimo. It actually triggers me to probably read it again at [00:24:20] some point in the near future. Every once a year, I have a, a period of time where I'm like, ah, I'm just not feeling it. I need to pick up Victor Frankel and just read that for a few days and go, okay. 

[00:24:29] Guest 1: All right.

But [00:24:30] you, you nailed it. It is. An amazing reminder of what true gratitude is. And when I talk about curiosity, I often think [00:24:40] about Victor Franco to imagine what his life must have been like to have his wife and his children taken away from him. Having no idea what harm would be caused to them [00:24:50] to be in a concentration camp himself with other prisoners and for him to spend his time there being curious about the experience of [00:25:00] the other prisoners.

He was also curious about the experience of the guards. He maintained the researcher's mindset as a psychotherapist while he was there and he [00:25:10] studied the experience of that. And he was able to find that even in the, the most awful circumstances, one could imagine. That prisoners were able to find moments of [00:25:20] joy and community and connection that in the darkest of times there was still.

Something to be grateful for that people still found [00:25:30] purpose and meaning with, with one another. And it is a, it is a tremendous reminder and it is definitely one of those books that it's worth coming back to you time and time again. 

[00:25:38] Matt: What other books stand out for [00:25:40] you? Is this from a topic of reading? Uh, what other books for you, or, you know, on your shelf that you lean on or recommend to people that are talking about self-compassion [00:25:50] or talking about being more kind to yourself?

What are some of the other go-tos that you have 

[00:25:53] Guest 1: ma. Well, the, the two cornerstone books around self-compassion are from Dr. Kristen Neff, who is [00:26:00] really the thought leader in this space and, and defined the construct of self-compassion as something that is different than compassion itself and, and is a practice of it, you know, for [00:26:10] each of us as individuals and her first book was titled self-compassion.

Her second book is called fear self-compassion, which is about self-compassion in the context for women specifically. [00:26:20] As you mentioned a few minutes ago, we are not all, uh, dealt the same set of cards at the beginning of this life. And, and people deal with very, very different circumstances. And so [00:26:30] even when I talk about self-compassion, it is, it is not the same practice for all people.

We are not at the same starting line, uh, and we are not all coming in it from the same perspective. And so that [00:26:40] book touches on the nuances in, in recognizing that we're not all the same, that, that we don't, we don't have equality, you know, as much as. We want [00:26:50] that. And I hope that we do as a society broadly, we have a very, very long ways to go.

So in the context of self-compassion, those two books strike me [00:27:00] as the most important BNE Brown's most recent book. The Atlas of the heart is something that isn't necessarily the book that you need to read, cover to cover. But what it does a [00:27:10] beautiful job is that it helps us to create a greater sense of emotional fluency.

You know, in any given day, we are having several thousand emotions. And [00:27:20] most of the time we are in a, um, automatic response moment, about 47% of the time we are operating just as automated creatures. We're just kind of [00:27:30] going through the motions of the day and we're not mindful of what our emotions are, but every emotion that we have.

Is a data point. It is information that is telling you about your experience right now, [00:27:40] whether that is a good thing, whether it's a threat, whether there is something to be concerned about, but it provides data and that data can be helpful in navigating. What do I need to do to influence these [00:27:50] people?

What do I need to do to build trust? What do I need to do to make sure that I can bring my best to my work, to my relationships at home to maintain, uh, a healthy sense of wellbeing for [00:28:00] myself. Our emotions inform that on a regular basis, if we are adept at understanding what they are and her book breaks down, uh, very clear definitions [00:28:10] around all of our different emotions and, and some emotions that we use interchangeably when they're actually not the same thing.

And so. That's just a helpful place as a, [00:28:20] as a starter to say, well, I want to create a greater sense of emotional fluency. I need to understand what these definitions are, so that I can be more adept at identifying with myself. [00:28:30] And then following with the curiosity of what is this emotion telling me about Amet need and unmet need or what action I can take in order to address.

[00:28:39] Matt: Al I had a great [00:28:40] conversation today. I wanna thank you for your time for your perspectives, and I'm looking forward to staying in 

[00:28:45] Guest 1: touch. Thank you. Matt had been an absolute pleasure.[00:28:50] 

[00:28:57] Matt: O is a digital transformation consultancy [00:29:00] working at the intersection of strategy technology and people operations. We partner with organizations, private equity and venture capital firms to accelerate value creation [00:29:10] and identify the organization's highest leverage initiatives. And this can take place in many forms from strategic planning and alignment to technology, [00:29:20] procurement, implementation, and integration, along with organizational design process reengineering and change management.

With our proven track record of [00:29:30] working with complex high growth organizations, we provide a lens that goes beyond the balance sheet, increasing enterprise readiness, resilience, and [00:29:40] value. For more information, check us out@bentohr.com.