How Should We Welcome the Metaverse - Navjeet Chhina

In today’s episode, I chat with Navjeet Chhina, the Vancouver-based Founder & CEO of Genius Ventures Inc, an international leader in the Metaverse / XR business solutions industry. He was also one of my partners in the 2020 Global HR Summit conference - the largest ever business enterprise conference presented entirely in virtual reality. 

We of course, get into that, alongside Nav’s other great work for major brands such as Adidas, Live Nation, Acura, Walmart, Snapchat, Warner Media, and the NFL. We really dig into the enterprise use cases for immersive technologies - whether its marketing, or HR. 

And we discuss how to solve the challenges of reaching a wide audience in an innovative sector,  showcasing how forward-thinking entities can connect with their customers on a deeper level, and create real business impact.

It was such a pleasure connecting with Nav. And I hope you enjoy it. 

Navjeet Chhina

Navjeet Chhina is the Founder of Genius Ventures Inc, an international leader in the 5G / XR business solutions industry. He has been involved in the 3D/XR space for the last 7 years and has led enterprise partnerships with Microsoft, Meta and Verizon's 5G Labs

Navjeet has over a decade of executive and product management experience in emerging technologies and establishing XR use cases for various industries and major brands such as Adidas, UPS, Honda, Acura, Live Nation, Media Monks, Walmart, Yahoo, Warner Media, the NFL and Phoenix Suns.

He is currently focusing on helping XR, 5G and Edge Computing reach mass adoption by showcasing how forward thinking innovative technologies can create business impact and help brands connect with their customers on a deeper emotional level.

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Matt Burns

Matt Burns is an award-winning executive, social entrepreneur and speaker. He believes in the power of community, simplicity & technology.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Guest 1: Gotcha. And so I think this is why, you know, XR and marketing go hand in hand together is because the, the next dimension of [00:00:10] content and where content is headed is placing yourself in the center of the experience, making you inclusive in the experience, as opposed to just being. A [00:00:20] passive observer of the content that's being directed.[00:00:30] 

[00:00:35] Matt: Constraint, strive innovation. Hey everyone. It's Matt here for another [00:00:40] episode of thinking inside the box, a show where we discuss complex issues related to work and culture. If you're interested in checking out our other content, you can find us at [00:00:50] bento, hr.com and wherever you find your favorite podcasts by searching, thinking inside the box.

And if you enjoy the work we're doing here, consider leaving [00:01:00] us a five star rating, a comment and subscribing it ensures you get updated. Whenever we release new content and really helps amplify our message. [00:01:10] In today's episode, I chat with nav J Gina founder and CEO of genius ventures, Inc. An international leader in the metaverse and XR business solutions.

[00:01:20] Industry nav is also one of my partners in the 2020 global HR summit conference. The largest ever business enterprise event [00:01:30] presented entirely in virtual reality. So we of course get into that and the stories behind it alongside NAB's other great work for major [00:01:40] brands, such as Adidas, live nation Acura, Walmart, Snapchat, Warner media, and the NFL.

And we really dig into the [00:01:50] enterprise use cases for immersive technologies, whether they be in marketing or HR, and we discuss how to solve challenges of reaching a really wide audience. [00:02:00] In a very niche, innovative sector, showcasing how forward thinking entities can connect with their customers on a deeper level [00:02:10] and also create real business impact.

NA's a good friend. It's always a pleasure connecting, and I hope you enjoy it. And now I bring you nav G chin. [00:02:20] NA did you think the next time we did a podcast together? It wouldn't be as avatars. 

[00:02:25] Guest 1: Yeah, I, no, I, I figured Matt that, uh, we we'd be doing, we'd be doing [00:02:30] podcasts and VR for, for a long time. So it's, it's glad that, uh, I'm glad that we're doing it on this medium as well.

[00:02:37] Matt: Yeah. And how about your background and experiences? I mean, [00:02:40] we, of course collaborated a number of different ways. Talk to us a bit about your background and experiences and what brought you to today? 

[00:02:47] Guest 1: Yeah, for sure. So, um, you know, today, as [00:02:50] you know, um, um, the CEO of genius ventures, we are in innovation studio for enterprise, specifically for metaverse related applications.

Um, you know, [00:03:00] in 3d, augmented reality and virtual reality. My background actually came in land development and construction. Uh, back in Vancouver and Canada [00:03:10] did a lot of work building custom homes and apartment buildings. And, you know, just after years in physical construction, um, I, I needed something more.

[00:03:20] And so this is when we started, uh, looking at, uh, 3d visualizations and architectural visualize visualizations for the construction space. And it just really got me [00:03:30] passionate about 3d technologies. Um, at that point, I decided to make a, a big jump in a move. And, uh, we started a virtual fashion company, um, [00:03:40] and I, and I headed out to big old Los Angeles to, to pursue that dream.

Um, it was what you would call the metaverse today was that the dream was [00:03:50] a virtual fashion mall where you could have your own avatar and you could put clothes on your avatar and dress it and have those clothes move and feel as if they wouldn't real life. But, uh, [00:04:00] you know, those. Way before its time, um, learned a lot of lessons and, uh, from that company, it, it, uh, dove right into, um, a service based [00:04:10] agency for augmented and virtual reality experiences.

And, uh, been doing that for a few years. And, um, you know, since last year I've started seeing a, a lot of success, [00:04:20] um, as the industry's grown and as the industry's picked up and people are starting to leverage these technologies that we're working with. So, you know, put it in. Put in a good, [00:04:30] good chunk of work over the last few years.

And it's, uh, everything's starting to come into fruit and especially the industry and what we now call the metaverse. Well, 

[00:04:37] Matt: and I count myself fortunate to have been [00:04:40] there in the background for at least part of that journey because in those early months, Of the pandemic. Things were really touch and go for businesses.

And for all of us who were [00:04:50] engaging with large enterprises, it was just an interesting time to find your product market fit and to secure long term [00:05:00] contracts with individuals, when most organizations didn't know where they were gonna be and, or, or didn't know what they wanted to spend at the very least.

And, you know, We talked a bit about the global [00:05:10] HR summit to kick off the show for me, the opportunity to discuss the application of this technology at the enterprise level was [00:05:20] really interesting, but it started in a really unique way. I remember early in the pandemic, it might even have been in March of 2020.[00:05:30] 

I got this call from a guy I'd never met before. Whose mother I happened to work with in the previous company that I had worked in. And I'd [00:05:40] heard stories about this Navjeet character. I'd heard the LA story. I'd heard, um, just all this, these glowing reports as, as any mother would give of their son. [00:05:50] And now I have the same guy calling me to asking me about VR and enterprise, and it was just a really unique conversation.

I [00:06:00] I'd love to know a bit about. Why and. Where was the origin of that thinking and what led us to be talking. 

[00:06:07] Guest 1: Yeah. Yeah. So that, [00:06:10] that was super interesting is, you know, we we're, uh, a little bit into the company. We had just, uh, you know, landed some big contracts with some, um, some major players. I think we had just done a [00:06:20] Walmart contract and Adidas contract.

Um, A few major real estate contracts. And it just really got us thinking, um, you know, at genius ventures, like how do we [00:06:30] continue to work with these larger organizations to help 'em achieve their, their business goals? And for us, it, it was really good to see that, you know, the companies that [00:06:40] had had some money to spend, to really create activations that, that had.

Results behind them. And throughout it was a shift for us, [00:06:50] you know, working with some of these major brands, um, as opposed to some of the, the smaller, medium sized organizations that we're pitching, that some of these major brands just had a lot more resources to [00:07:00] put behind XR experiences. And so after we locked in those first few contracts, For us, it was like, how can we create more meaningful impact across enterprise?

And, [00:07:10] um, it's same as, uh, same as you're saying, you know, I'd heard from my, my mom about this Matt guy that she had worked with that, uh, you know, was a, a big hit at [00:07:20] her, her current company. He'd done a lot of work with large enterprise at Walmart. Uh, Experience before that. And I thought, you know, what, what better way to, [00:07:30] to have a warm introduction or connect, um, connect with you and learn more about how we could possibly bring, you know, AR and VR to, uh, [00:07:40] to enterprise.

And, you know, one thing led to another, we had a great conversation and still, still very new at the time and, uh, [00:07:50] naive about maybe what, what. How much XR there was in enterprise, but that, you know, one thing led to another. And I guess we, uh, we [00:08:00] planned, uh, what was it? The, the second largest VR event of 2020?

[00:08:04] Matt: I still can't believe no, one's done one as big since it's been almost two years. [00:08:10] It's 

[00:08:11] Guest 1: it's crazy. It's uh, uh, we think about this all the time. Like, like I told you, I I've been to a few different conferences and events where folks. Kept [00:08:20] bringing up the global HR summit from two years ago, that was such a great event.

We got to meet people from all around the world, um, and all these different companies that we just wouldn't have had [00:08:30] the opportunity to do, you know, in person during the pandemic. And we made all these friendships. There's one gentleman who even started a company off the back of the success of that summit.[00:08:40] 

And so for me, it's just, it's wild to see that we're able to pull something like that often and the world. And industry still hasn't, uh, still [00:08:50] hasn't done something like this, but then again, you know, if you look at how much work it took and how much time and how many people it took to to pull that thing off, it's, you know, [00:09:00] also makes a little bit of sense too.

[00:09:02] Matt: Well, let's go into that a little bit nav. We can do this as a healing opportunity for us. When I, when I got that first phone call [00:09:10] at the time, just so we can level set around my. Familiarity and comfort with the technology of virtual reality. I think I had just bought my first headset. [00:09:20] It was the original Oculus quest with the one good controller.

And I was thinking about using it as something to keep me busy during the pandemic. You know, I [00:09:30] got a bunch of puzzles. I got a virtual reality headset and I bought a guitar. I've never actually played the guitar. I finished all the puzzles and then there was virtual reality and. [00:09:40] You call and start talking about the applications of VR for business.

And at the time I had not given it any thought, like zero and. [00:09:50] As you were speaking, it became clear that I'd been sleeping on it, that I really hadn't had the exposure to the potential of the technology. And as you started to [00:10:00] explain its applications in other commercial use cases like sales or in real estate, I started to make the connections that you'd already made and say, we have [00:10:10] to do this.

And in the middle of a pandemic, we decided to, as you mentioned poor about what. Six months [00:10:20] of 18 hour days into this project. 

[00:10:23] Guest 1: yeah. Yeah, this is, uh, it is from what March or April all the way to September and yeah, [00:10:30] long days, early mornings, basically the entire summer, um, you know, everything from. The entire framework of an event is like, first of all, how do we choose [00:10:40] which platform to host this event in?

And then it was all right. We found a platform, oh no. Now that we have 60 speakers from around the world, how do we get them all into virtual [00:10:50] reality? And then after we learned that, what 57 of those 60 speakers had never been into virtual reality ever in their life. We now then had to figure out how to train [00:11:00] 60 people, how to speak in virtual reality.

On, you know, a Google Hangouts call across the world. That was, that was crazy. And then as well, like, you know, the entire ticketing [00:11:10] system live streaming out from virtually reality onto LinkedIn and YouTube basically is, is a. It's quite the process, but, uh, in the end [00:11:20] of it, you know, I, I think, you know, for the listeners that haven't heard of the global HR summit, it turned out to be a huge success where we had 60 speakers, senior leaders at fortune [00:11:30] 500 organizations speaking in virtual reality in an auditorium that Microsoft had given us to.

I think what the total number of attendees was [00:11:40] somewhere around a thousand attendees over three days. Um, it was an event that was one of its kind. And I think, you know, As we always talk about the business value of XR and the business value [00:11:50] of the metaverse is like a very important thing to note. Um, it's come up a few times is just the outsized savings that we got, um, [00:12:00] on the, the, the amount of capital required to put on an event of that size.

And, um, in an auditorium like that, plus, uh, you know, [00:12:10] the amount of logistics required to bring 60 speakers and a thousand attendees to a location. You know, an event like that in the real world, the physical world would [00:12:20] cost somewhere around 1.1, 1.2 million. And, and for us, we did for, you know, just over a hundred 

[00:12:25] Matt: thousand and.

The event itself, as you mentioned, was really [00:12:30] complex because there wasn't a template for how to run them. We had to build everything from scratch. We also had to bring together two groups that traditionally [00:12:40] haven't connected the technology XR world and the enterprise world. For some reason, those two groups.

Hadn't really intersected in a meaningful [00:12:50] way. So the opportunity to bring those groups together, I think you're right, was the big draw for the 800 plus whatever it was, people that showed up for the conference and. [00:13:00] I say show up in a casual way. These people became friends of ours in the buildup, because I remember the other day just thinking about all the meetups we had leading up to the [00:13:10] conference, we ourselves had to learn how to use the technology to speak.

We ourselves had to determine. The layout of speaking [00:13:20] locations and where we wanted our audiences and backgrounds and themes, we had to be responsible for set design and sponsorships [00:13:30] and entertainment in the, how do you engage? Hundreds of avatars in a virtual space where there's multiple rooms and [00:13:40] places to congregate and get stuck and get lost in technical issues.

Not to mention all of the ticketing challenges you talked about before nav and then the registration, not only for the [00:13:50] event, but then also into the platform itself because you couldn't participate as an avatar unless you're registered on Microsoft's Altspace uh, and then you talked about the live [00:14:00] streaming, which.

Again, having worked in a very large organization. I can appreciate this, but it still blows my mind that Microsoft who owns both LinkedIn [00:14:10] and Altspace had never built an integration between Altspace and LinkedIn, where they could stream virtual reality content onto their careers [00:14:20] platform and just draw the full circle for enterprise and the technology.

But we were the first to have done that. And that came with its own unique challenges, but nav I'll, I'll never forget. [00:14:30] It was in June. I think of that year, we were three months into this conference. We had, we'd answered some of those bigger questions and we were very much in operational mode. We were just getting the, you know, [00:14:40] ticketing promotion, getting speakers, like we were operating and we got an email or a phone call from Microsoft saying, Hey, we've [00:14:50] had a boost in.

Cyber activity that's causing us to consider whether or not we shut down this site or the platform for a couple of days to add [00:15:00] some extra, you know, firewalls and reinforce the firewalls. It just so happens to fall in the days of the conference. How do you wanna handle [00:15:10] that? Do you remember that conversation?

Oh 

[00:15:12] Guest 1: man. It was, uh, yeah, it was a pretty crazy conversation. Um, you know, ultimately I think it ended up being a sigh of relief because [00:15:20] we, you know, got, got an extra month and a half to pull off the conference, but yeah, that was, uh, it, it was. Disheartening to say the least after putting in months and [00:15:30] months of hard work and getting everything ready to go and set, and then getting, uh, you know, the news that we may have to delay, uh, you know, especially with all the folks lined up to speak, all the folks [00:15:40] lined up to attend.

Um, it, it was definitely a, a hurdle for us. Um, but I think, you know, in the end we, we came out stronger with the better. Um, with a few better [00:15:50] speakers or, uh, more, uh, you know, uh, more, not better speakers, but we came out with more speakers. I think we added, uh, you know, another half day of programming and I [00:16:00] believe, you know, we, we probably got some more attendees out of it as well.

Ultimately. 

[00:16:03] Matt: Yeah, it was actually a really good, I got to, um, Talked to somebody the other week who came to the conference and was very, you know, [00:16:10] keen to join the July version of it. But, you know, was there along the journey when we postponed to ultimately September and we definitely did gain awareness from the way we handled that [00:16:20] delay.

Um, Microsoft was great. And ultimately the event in September went off without a hitch when it came to the concerns that were being raised in June, it [00:16:30] was. Some real cyber security. There was additional activity from malware among other things, not only directed towards Altspace, but to [00:16:40] VR chat and other, you know, virtual reality platforms.

So out of an abundance of caution, it didn't feel right to ask. Hundreds of business executives who were already taking a [00:16:50] chance by joining us in virtual reality to begin with, for many individuals, this was their first experience with the technology. So I, I don't wanna underscore [00:17:00] the, the change management required to, you know, push people a little bit outside their comfort zone.

Um, even if the promise is of a really good event and a really collaborative and inclusive [00:17:10] experience, it's hard to make changes. And I didn't want that experience to be tainted by. Externalities. And to your point, we were relieved to [00:17:20] receive the additional runway with which to kind of just button down the rest of the operations and make sure the event itself went off largely without a hitch.[00:17:30] 

Hey everyone, it's Matt here. I hope you're enjoying today's discussion. Before we continue. I want to make you aware of my latest creative project this week at [00:17:40] work presented in partnership with my good friend, Chris Rainey of HR leaders. Each Friday will live stream on LinkedIn at 7:00 AM. Pacific standard time.

[00:17:50] That's 10:00 AM Eastern standard time and 3:00 PM GMT for our European viewers and together bringing the latest trends news on topics, emanating from [00:18:00] organizations, everything from culture to technology and the future of work. Joining is easy. Just follow me on LinkedIn, click the bell at the top right hand side [00:18:10] of my profile.

And you'll get notified when we go live each week. And whether you do experience the content live or later, if you've been following me for a while, you'll no doubt recognize the [00:18:20] fun banter Chris and I have developed over the years and whether it's been podcasts or digital events, we're so excited to again, bring you the topics affecting today's workplaces and [00:18:30] their leaders.

And now back to our discussion

nav, when I think about the conference, I think of course about like [00:18:40] those days and the long hours and the pivoting and the promotion and the, the celebration. Each time we talked about getting a speaker and then confirming a speaker and. I of [00:18:50] course never wanna play favorites because each of the people of the 60 speakers who said yes, took out significant time in their schedules to join us [00:19:00] for orientation, for training, there was hours of training in the case of all speakers to learn how to use the VR headset, how to speak in the environment.

Each of the [00:19:10] 60, before this had. Accomplished public speakers. They'd shared stages before they'd gone on done digital programming on things like YouTube. But speaking in virtual reality comes with its [00:19:20] own challenges because you're operating with a headset and these folks required a degree of adaptation and training and support as they went through their own [00:19:30] natural change curves.

And each of them really do hold a special place in my heart. And that said, There are a couple people that stand out for me among the speakers that [00:19:40] when we secured them and their time and their commitment to what we were doing and ultimately their contributions to the event itself, a few of them stand out for me.

[00:19:50] I think about Tom fines. I think about Nick VWI, those two individuals for me, stand out for a number of reasons, but not the least of which [00:20:00] was. Tom as you know, nav inventor of the virtual reality technology and has gone on to become quite a mentor [00:20:10] for both you and myself. And then Nick. By way of Tom and his introduction, just a gentleman who exudes inspiration and [00:20:20] inclusion and love.

And to have those two men bookend the conference, Tom opening it, and then Nick opening, the final day of the conference was just such an [00:20:30] such joy. And I'd love to hear maybe some of your thoughts or some of your anecdotes or stories about your time with the speakers, you know, who stood out, what were some of those [00:20:40] experiences?

Yeah. 

[00:20:41] Guest 1: Yeah, no, it, uh, the, uh, the, the two, uh, folks you mentioned there, definitely top of mind when, uh, when I thought of how [00:20:50] well, the, how well the conference went. And like we said, almost everybody that spoke was, uh, or not almost everybody. I, I feel everybody that spoke and everybody that participated. [00:21:00] It was just great to see, uh, just everybody come together and this new medium and, and talk about their craft and talk about the, the work that they do and how XR could be integrated into [00:21:10] enterprise.

The, the one, the other, um, you know, uh, one session that stood out to me was the closing keynote, uh, with Matt Fleckenstein, where he. He showed the commercial [00:21:20] for the HoloLens too. I believe it was. And it was, uh, you know, uh, watching that, that, watching a closing speech on a, like a, you know, a theater sized [00:21:30] theater size screen, while in VR also just, just goes to show, you know, how much you can, you can push the limits of this technology and really showcase things that you wanna showcase.

You know, being [00:21:40] able to see a commercial for a new technology inside of a new technology already virtual reality, but on a, on a big screen, it was, um, you know, it [00:21:50] was, it was layers deep of, of technology 

[00:21:53] Matt: and wonder one thing you've heard me drone on and on about before nav is the inevitable merger between marketing and [00:22:00] HR.

I think it's just a matter of inside voice and outside voice. One's a call center. One's a profit center, so they're treated differently, but essentially they perform the same activities. It's why [00:22:10] we saw the same potential for the technology at the global HR summit. It's why we both see the opportunity within enterprise for XR and VR.

In [00:22:20] this case, more specifically, I'd love to tackle both sides of that coin. Maybe starting with marketing. When you think about the potential for [00:22:30] augmented and virtual reality. In a marketing context for organizations, what kind of things do you 

[00:22:35] Guest 1: see? So when I, when I think about augmented reality for marketing, [00:22:40] what we really get down to is the potential for storytelling in augmented reality and virtual reality, us for the last 10, 20, 30, you [00:22:50] know, uh, the, for our li our entire lives.

Um, and for the, the noble past, you know, we're, we're used to living on 2d screens. We're used to. [00:23:00] Uh, all the content we're consuming is on a flat 2d screen, uh, on our mobile phone or on a desktop. You know, they, I, they have [00:23:10] curved monitors now, but it's still 2d, you know, you're, you're, all of your applications are two dimensional you're and we've gotten very used to it, but.

Us as human beings, [00:23:20] we're three dimensional beings. We, you know, we, we like having S spatial awareness and understanding what's happening and, and being able to interact with our environment. [00:23:30] And so what, what marketing does for XR, what XR and marketing, why they work really great together is because you're now able to tell those same stories in a [00:23:40] three dimensional space.

You know, I have to give examples. It's, uh, it's like trying to explain TV over the radio, but now I'm trying to explain, uh, I'm trying to explain XR over a [00:23:50] podcast. So, you know, everybody here has probably seen Pokemon go the game, and this is a version of augmented reality where you can bring these [00:24:00] characters to life, but in your physical world, all around you.

And this was a game changer for the industry. It became one of the largest games. Um, you know, of all time back when it was [00:24:10] released in 2017, with the, you know, the amount of daily active users and concurrent players. And then, you know, you see applications, things like, um, you know, the Ikea place [00:24:20] app where you're able to place furniture in your home and you're able to visualize what it looks like and change the colors of the furniture before you buy.

And then even getting to [00:24:30] things like, you know, the, the, the dog ears that you see are the sparkles that people are putting on their faces. These are all versions of augmented reality. And what it truly is, is just a [00:24:40] new way of telling stories. It's a new way of allowing users to interact with their content and making users, you know, the front and center in the content that they're interacting [00:24:50] with.

When you are placing a piece of furniture in your home, you know, you are placing it, you're moving it around. You're, it's, it's a dynamic experience. And same with, you know, if you're playing with a, [00:25:00] a, a Pokemon that's that's in your backyard or in your apartment, it's, you are a part of that experience. And same as if you're wearing a pair of dog ears or putting a company logo on your [00:25:10] face, um, you know, with augmented reality or wearing a, a virtual branded hat with augmented reality, it puts you front and center in the experience makes you like, you [00:25:20] know, that I've heard this term before it makes you.

The protagonist of the experience. And so I think this is why, you know, XR and marketing go hand in hand [00:25:30] together is because the, the next dimension of content and where content is headed is placing yourself in the center of the experience, making you inclusive in [00:25:40] the experience, as opposed to just being a passive observer of the content that's being directed 

[00:25:44] Matt: at you.

And. That's a really interesting concept for a few reasons. [00:25:50] The first of which is that traditionally there's been this bias towards whenever there's a technology interface or a digital interface. It's less [00:26:00] human. I think about my parents' generation. Um, I think about some people in my generation for that matter, that appreciate the value of organic [00:26:10] connection, organic Interac.

And what we're talking about in the case of augmented reality is a digital overlay in an organic [00:26:20] world. So to your point, Pokemon go, it could help you, you know, try on shoes, try on glasses, buy furniture. It's seen as an integrator [00:26:30] between two worlds, the virtual world, the digital world, or how you wanna call that.

And then the real physical world. And to your point nav, the, the big [00:26:40] defining feature of it is. Intimacy. It provides that third dimension, which gives the sense of scale and scope and closeness and depth. [00:26:50] And it's the exact reason why I see the potential for the technology in the HR real. And again, as I mentioned, I see the two functions, marketing and HR one day [00:27:00] coming together, inside voice outside voice.

And what I mean by that is that there are several predictable and repeatable business inflection points [00:27:10] in every employee's time with every organization where today you really have three choices. You can do this face to face. You can [00:27:20] meet digitally using a 2d interface, like a phone or zoom or Skype.

Or you can put things into virtual reality where you blend the two worlds and you [00:27:30] get some of the benefit of being in person in terms of the, in terms of the social intimacy, the feeling of connection, the a hundred percent of somebody's attention and the [00:27:40] attention economy you have, and you get the benefits of the digital world and that people can do that from two different locations.

You tear down walls when it comes to things like time and cost and you know, [00:27:50] disability. And now two people can be essentially equals in a room and have a real intimate, close convers. And there are several activities where that would be highly valuable [00:28:00] in an organization. Things like. Your job interviews or your orientation, or the training of very specific and very important [00:28:10] topics like health and safety, perhaps product training, sales training.

It also provides a great vehicle for connection, for things like team meetings and coaching and performance management. [00:28:20] And. For the same reason you talk about augmented reality, being a game changer for marketers and being able to introduce their products and services and offers into people's physical [00:28:30] worlds.

I see the same potential for virtual reality to do that in the enterprise, providing them with a tool that's going to increase connection, which couldn't [00:28:40] be more important for a world where we're not gonna come back to the office as much as we once did. And if we're gonna try and compete and we're gonna try and create culture in a market that [00:28:50] is declining.

Total value. There are less available people in the workforce this year than there were last year and that numbers can continue to decline because of [00:29:00] demographic changes. We have to find a way to create connection in organizations as a means to engagement. Performance and retention. And [00:29:10] when I think about virtual reality, being a solution for that, I get really excited because we no longer have to trade off technology and connection with things like VR.

You get the [00:29:20] best of both worlds. Exactly. 

[00:29:21] Guest 1: Exactly. It's not like, like we're talking about in. You know, the global HR summit is, is changing the way we communicate and the [00:29:30] ability to do face to face meetings, to, to the ability to, uh, you know, face to face in virtual reality, and then creating that intimacy.

Because when you're in a virtual space, after a few minutes of [00:29:40] talking to another avatar, you almost forget that you're in a virtual space. You know, it, it creates that same feeling of closeness and connection and. You know, the, the other part, [00:29:50] uh, you know, that I really see the benefits of virtual reality or augmented reality is, is training as well.

Is you, you know, as you're getting onboard into a job and planning scenarios [00:30:00] and understanding, you know, a bit more about the environment you're working in is, uh, you, you can really leverage virtual reality as a way to like scale training, to onboard workers, [00:30:10] to onboard employees and team members and colleagues long before they, before they come to the job, you know, and in various scenarios, Just in the warehouse, but also in, [00:30:20] in simulations and scenarios that that require interpersonal communication.

[00:30:24] Matt: Oh, you're absolutely bang on when it comes to training and training in particular nav, [00:30:30] because for the individuals on listen to this podcast who are part of large organizations, training is a real challenging subject because it's so misunderstood [00:30:40] in big business. And yet so many resources are deployed in service to achieving goals that often aren't met.

And our education [00:30:50] system more broadly needs a big overhaul, but in the context of enterprise, specifically, the methods of instruction, the tools that are [00:31:00] used, the science that backs, the methods is really lacking. And there are exceptions. There are great organizations. I have, you know, friends like Christopher [00:31:10] Lynn, um, works for chem med.

Like I, there are people at the forefront of learning technology that are really bringing a whole different level of experience and why [00:31:20] that's important, why the work that people like Chris is important is learning is meant to be individual to a degree. And. You need to [00:31:30] provide the flexibility for things like customization and personalization.

You need to have learning be integrated into somebody's flow of work. The days [00:31:40] of somebody flying across the country and spending five days seated in a class while someone talks to them and shows them eight hours a day of PowerPoint slides, like we can't do that [00:31:50] anymore. And we also can't make somebody watch hundreds of hours.

Recorded e-learning courses, make them complete 10 question quizzes, and then call that learning either. [00:32:00] We really have to, if we want people to truly learn, if we want people to truly absorb the knowledge that they're taking in through the training and development they're receiving, and we want them to [00:32:10] apply that learning presumably for the organization's benefit.

Then we have to do a better job of delivering it, of structuring it, of applying scientific principles alongside of it. [00:32:20] And virtual reality. Now, if you know this, I'm not a technologist, I, I cannot help write a single line of unity code. Um, and. It's very clear for me to [00:32:30] see that this method of instruction using virtual reality, whether it's even just watching recorded videos, but certainly if you're doing more tactile, experiential based learning [00:32:40] in virtual reality, the, the potential for.

Learner engagement and thereby knowledge retention is so much higher that if companies right now, who are spending [00:32:50] money on their corporate trading programs, swap this in, they will save thousands. If not millions of dollars, depending on the size of their company. That's what we're talking about here, because it is [00:33:00] that much of a quantum leap forward when it comes to the next era of enterprise learning.

And now I'm glad you called that out. That's it's a really important intersection. This is where again, I [00:33:10] think nav your expertise comes in particularly handy. When you look at the lens through, when you look at problems through a marketing lens, there's also an educational component to that as well.

We're teaching the [00:33:20] prospective client about our product, our service, our offer, we're teaching them how they should interact with that product, that service that offer. And there is always an element of storytelling in that. [00:33:30] And I'm curious, What about this particular medium for you is the unique aspects of it.

As it pertains to storytelling a, [00:33:40] as 

[00:33:40] Guest 1: it pertains to storytelling, like I said, the, the three, the, the dimensionality of it that it's in three dimensions is, you know, when, uh, in typical 2d environments, you can [00:33:50] only see one side of something, but in augments reality and virtual reality, you're able to inspect things.

You're able. Move around the scene. You're able to immerse yourself in the [00:34:00] scene and it's all around you. Right. And, and it, it just changes the level of immersion in your mind when you're able to walk around something, whether that be something that's a [00:34:10] digital object in your living room and you're walking around it, or if you're fully immersed in virtual reality and you see a tree or a car, or, you know, an other avatar and you're able to walk around it, [00:34:20] it.

That it it's, it's the difference between, you know, like a, like we said, is a zoom meeting and being in a, in a room with other people is yet you [00:34:30] can't walk around a zoom meeting or you can't walk around a commercial, but an augmented reality of virtual reality, the experiences that we create, you can. [00:34:40] You, you can inspect and see them from multiple angles.

And I think it just adds a, another layer to storytelling when you're adding another dimension to that storytelling. [00:34:50] It's not that just the X and Y axis anymore. It's the X, Y, Z axis. And that, that changes everything. 

[00:34:55] Matt: And as you mentioned before, about the conference, that changed a [00:35:00] lot of things for a lot of different people.

We've talked a lot about some of the things that have come from the conference. So for those who weren't there alongside of us, as nev [00:35:10] mentioned, three full days of programming, September of 20, 20, 60 speakers, uh, hundreds of hours of work into the process, if not thousands, by the end of it. [00:35:20] And the event went off largely without a hitch nev like we actually did the thing.

There was no major catastrophes. There was no major ticketing issues. There [00:35:30] was no buddy got, felt ill in their headset. It, everyone showed up to the stage on time and arrived on time, everything off I, everything went off [00:35:40] largely without a hitch. And I think that speaks to kind of the diligence that you bring to the roles that you take on.

I mean, obviously a high [00:35:50] level of attention to detail around things like business operations, a high amount of preference on things like leverage. When I think about XR and I think about [00:36:00] enterprise, I think about in a lot of cases leverage and how you can take existing content and apply in a different delivery vehicle and get better [00:36:10] engagement.

We took a traditional conference format that can be really boring and really static. And we certainly improved upon a [00:36:20] multi-day zoom conference, which was dreadful and made something engaging and inspiring. What do you think the future of the technology is [00:36:30] for enterprise beyond? The things that we've discussed is, and maybe, maybe more specifically.

What's kind of a timeline for it. It, it feels like virtual [00:36:40] reality has been the next big thing for some time. What do you kinda see in the next little while for enterprises and timing and evolution of XR? 

[00:36:48] Guest 1: Yeah, I think a lot of [00:36:50] businesses are gonna start, uh, adopting hybrid models for meetings as you know, technologies like 5g and, um, you know, Uh, internet expands, especially [00:37:00] as we get things like edge computing, which are gonna be able to deliver a lot more content, more seamlessly across multiple mediums, whether that be glasses or virtual reality headsets.

[00:37:10] And as the number of users pick up, I, I, I see people doing more and more meetings in virtual reality. And then as augmented reality glasses comes [00:37:20] in augmented reality. I see a lot more businesses leveraging augmented reality for their sales and marketing, you know, giving customers the ability to place things in their [00:37:30] world and try them on and, you know, turn them around and manipulate them.

Um, you know, before they go to the store. I see. Um, A lot of [00:37:40] potential, as we've said for learning is, you know, as opposed to just doing learning, even where VR learning is now is where you're watching a [00:37:50] 360 video in a virtual headset is I believe that it in the future will do fully interactive learning environment where you're in a 3d environment, interacting with [00:38:00] 3d characters and the decisions that you make will lead to a different outcome in.

In that environment in real time, but not something that's prerecorded, but [00:38:10] as, as opposed to that something that's dynamic. And so I, I feel like, you know, with the big announcements of, uh, Facebook changing their name to beta, [00:38:20] and a lot of major companies and organizations are now starting to develop metaverse strategies and just like any technology, we're gonna see how it's gonna play out over time.[00:38:30] 

But I truly think, you know, to, if I was to sum it all up is the experiences that create more connection for people, a deeper sense of connection and belonging [00:38:40] and, uh, you know, uh, the, the normal interactions that we have. I think those experiences are gonna win. I think the experiences and the, the applications of virtual reality and [00:38:50] augmented reality that, that drive more sales and.

Drive users to interact with the brand for a longer period of time by telling stories and by, um, you know, [00:39:00] allowing users to immerse themselves in, in longer, more meaningful experiences and increase the bottom line, you know, generate more revenue. I think those experiences are gonna win. [00:39:10] And then, um, you know, just, uh, on the other end of things, is, is augmenting.

A lot of the workforce is, you know, a lot of people that are out in the field doing training and, [00:39:20] uh, inspecting heavy machinery and all that for them to start getting digital overlays and to have remote support in real time on, on some of the tech, uh, the issues [00:39:30] that they're working on. I think those few things are really gonna transform where, where businesses are headed in the future.

[00:39:35] Matt: Now that took me almost two years to recover from that global HR. [00:39:40] And I'm getting to a place now where I'm starting to rediscover my passion for VR again, and this conversation was really helpful in doing that. Thank you so much. The next little while is gonna be [00:39:50] interesting. I, I couldn't agree with you more.

I have lots of optimism for the work that you are doing. I see the, the output of all that effort and the quality of product that's being produced. [00:40:00] And it's only a matter of time before the market realizes the potential of it in a more meaningful sense. And I think people like yourself and organizations like genius ventures are gonna benefit disproportionately [00:40:10] when that market matures around it.

And I'm also gonna find a space for myself in the market, and I'm still trying to figure out what that is. Um, but I see a role for [00:40:20] this technology to make work better inside of organizations. And I see an opportunity to make work in life more seamlessly integrated [00:40:30] with one another. The pandemic is really hard and the models before.

The pandemic around people coming to the office five days a week and spending [00:40:40] 1, 2, 3, 4 hours a day in their car working 50, 60 hours a week. That model doesn't make sense. And the model of people working 50 to 60 hours from home a week [00:40:50] trapped in their apartments with people on top of each other and limited personal space.

And privacy is also not the way to do things either. There's an equilibrium in there [00:41:00] somewhere and, and technology can create a bridge that presently right now, Isn't all that compelling and I'm really excited to see where that goes. Thanks so much joining [00:41:10] me today. Yeah. Thank you very 

[00:41:11] Guest 1: much.[00:41:20] 

[00:41:21] Matt: Ohr is a digital transformation consultancy working at the intersection of strategy technology and people operations. We partner with [00:41:30] organizations, private equity and venture capital firms to accelerate value creation. And identify the organization's highest leverage initiatives. And this can take place in many forms [00:41:40] from strategic planning and alignment to technology, procurement, implementation, and integration, along with organizational design processory engineering [00:41:50] and change management.

With our proven track record of working with complex high growth organizations, we provide a lens that goes beyond the balance sheet, [00:42:00] increasing enterprise readiness, resilience, and value. For more information, check us out@bentohr.com.[00:42:10]