Thinking Inside the Box

How to Coach for Impact - Nishika de Rosairo

September 06, 2022 Matt Burns Season 1 Episode 109
Thinking Inside the Box
How to Coach for Impact - Nishika de Rosairo
Show Notes Transcript

In today’s episode, I chat with Nishika de Rosairo, a serial entrepreneur and business leader who has spent the last 18 years focused on two key things – people and impact, supporting organizations like Deloitte, Apple, and Salesforce. 

She’s on a mission to unlock the human potential of the world, and founded HumanQ to address the pain points felt by both individuals and organizations in having access to the right development opportunities. HumanQ is a technology-driven, intimate Group Coaching platform, designed to unlock human potential. Our Group Coaching Tracks are pre-designed for transformation to align with the organization's strategic goals. It’s really innovative thinking.

She’s also an artist, has lived on 4 continents and travelled to 65+ countries. We covered a lot together: her path to HumanQ. How it’s presence in 55 countries has shaped how she views coaching. And how she overcomes in-person bias in making this world a better place. 

It was such a pleasure connecting with Nishika. And I hope you enjoy it. 

Nishika de Rosairo

Nishika is a serial entrepreneur and leader who has spent the last 18 years focused on two key things – people and impact in organizations ranging from Deloitte Consulting to Apple, Cisco, Salesforce, Levi, and others, to the start-ups of Silicon Valley. On a mission to unlock the human potential of the world, she founded HumanQ to address the pain points felt by both individuals and organizations in having access to the right development opportunities.

Nishika is also an artist, having extensively lived on 4 continents and travelled to 65+ countries, she approaches solutions with a unique perspective that focuses on the trifecta of how individuals, organizations, and societies can all win when workforces are developed with the future in mind. 


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Matt Burns

Matt Burns is an award-winning executive, social entrepreneur and speaker. He believes in the power of community, simplicity & technology.


[00:00:00] Matt: I am looking forward to this conversation. We just did some prep offline. You filled me with so many cool [00:00:10] anecdotes and stories and insights. I just cannot wait to get into it. But before we do that welcome, and I'd love if you wouldn't mind introducing yourself to the audience, what is your [00:00:20] background experiences and what brought you to.

[00:00:23] Guest 1: Awesome, Matt, thank you so much for having me here, such a privilege and honor to be here. So my background, um, [00:00:30] I'm a little bit of a global mutt, uh, really grew up around the world, you know, was born in Africa, lived there and then lived in Asia, lived in Australasia and then made my way to the us. [00:00:40] Coming to the us was really me on my own deciding that I was moving to the us versus all the other moves we made were very driven by my family and my parents, in fact, [00:00:50] and really the reason that brought me to the us was I was fascinated with.

Uh, a short visit that I did have in the us and the mindset around can [00:01:00] do and attitude and entrepreneurship and access to resources and that sort of thing. And so it was really where I felt that I needed to be. And, uh, [00:01:10] it happened to be exactly the right position at the time. And it still is in many ways I was 23 and I was, I'd also been to 23 countries at that [00:01:20] point, but not to the us.

My parents had. Something along the lines of, oh, you, you, you watch the us on TV, you'll get there on your own. But really there isn't much to show you other than what's on TV. [00:01:30] It used to always crack me up because I used to think, is that really true? And what else is there to discover? So, um, having come to the us for a short trip, realize that there's so much more than [00:01:40] the TV, although somethings are true, like sorority houses and fraternity houses, which I thought were made up concepts, but they're not.

Um, and so, um, you know, my journey [00:01:50] was really about. Growing up in different parts of the world, but more importantly, education was a really large focus for my parents and education didn't mean the classroom [00:02:00] alone. It did mean that, but it also. All the elements of what happens outside of the classroom in terms of sports and art and social interactions and [00:02:10] so on.

And even the cultural aspects of getting to know your own culture, but other people's cultures too. And so my life was very much centered around, you know, how do you [00:02:20] activate left and right brain thinking, not in a way that anybody spoke about, like, even if I went to my parents today and started asking them questions around, were you purposeful in how you developed [00:02:30] my sister and I, and gave us access to opportu?

They, they probably would say no, uh, because they didn't really think about it, but they just wanted us to be outside of the classroom, playing and [00:02:40] dancing and, and, and just getting a ton of energy and doing things. So I think that's informed who I am and how I approach life. And my attitude too was change and [00:02:50] resilience.

And also, you know, my, um, the, the, the emphasis I really place on human development and potential, and. Experiences shape [00:03:00] us and continue to shape us. And the world is kind of our oyster. We have a lot of things we can acquire and do and meld into, and it's quite exciting. So that's a little bit about me and [00:03:10] how I grew up and how I view the world.

[00:03:14] Matt: Well, and what a privilege to be able to see that much of it before your life really began in a, in [00:03:20] a kind of professional context, and to have that anchoring and to have that support from your family around, you know, having exposure to different kinds of cultures. I'm [00:03:30] curious how looking back, how do you think that informed the way you approach business or your business in.

[00:03:36] Guest 1: Yeah. I mean, Matt, definitely very privileged to have had that experience. No [00:03:40] doubt. Uh, you know, at the time, ironically, you know, it, especially the big moves cuz they were cross continental moves. They never felt comforting as a, as a young [00:03:50] child. And as a teenager, they always felt like the end of the world will I make any more friends or what's gonna happen.

Right. Sure. But when I think about it now, I mean, or even just over the [00:04:00] course of me being in the business world, it's incredible. Did for me, it exposed me to different cultures. And, um, in many ways, you know, I always look at people as [00:04:10] being kind of the same in that we have some very basic needs that are shared no matter where you are in the world.

Right. And no matter what your socio socioeconomic status is, like, [00:04:20] we all look for community because we want love. We need support. We all. Purpose in our life. Right? I mean, there are certain things that we look for no matter where we come from. And then of [00:04:30] course there's, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And it depends on where you sit in that hierarchy based on the things you have access to.

But I'm always reminded of how similar [00:04:40] we are more than we are different. And it it's, it brings me a lot of comfort because I feel like no matter where I go and what I do, I can connect to people. I can connect to how. [00:04:50] Think I can connect to the problems they need to solve and I can connect to the solutions that they need to create in order to solve those problems.

So I, I don't take that for granted ever. In fact, [00:05:00] I use it every day in business because I feel it allows me to understand our customers so much more intimately and to design specifically for what [00:05:10] their needs are. So I, I would say that that is definitely a gift I've had. And, uh, you know, I love the idea of spreading that through, you know, the work we do.[00:05:20] 

[00:05:21] Matt: Let's talk a bit more about the work that you do. The company is experiential insight. And when I had a chance to do some research and some background before our [00:05:30] conversation, I was really drawn to the intentionality of the offer and of the way you structured the business. But for those who aren't familiar, maybe just talk us through a bit about [00:05:40] the business itself and your inspiration, and maybe it's origin.

[00:05:44] Guest 1: Yeah, would love to. And so experiential insight really, um, was born out of a [00:05:50] couple of things. I mean, one was, you know, just the way I grew up and how I viewed the world in terms of education, being such a critical part, but I wouldn't even call it education. I would say that [00:06:00] individuals being able to unlock their full potential.

Being a really large component to living your best life. And I think that oftentimes when you look at education [00:06:10] systems, you realize that education systems are so binary in that they make you pick, right? Like, do I wanna be an engineer or do I wanna be an artist? Do I wanna be a doctor or do I wanna be in, [00:06:20] uh, you know, psychology?

Right. But like the point is like, you're always selecting and you're not allowed to kind of develop your full self. And I think that humans have so much [00:06:30] potential. Limitless potential. And we are only ever really stopped by how much potential we think we have and you know, how much we're willing [00:06:40] to go explore and push the boundaries and push the possibilities and really discover new realms of living and being, and working and so on.

And so when I [00:06:50] think about AI and the origin of it, it's really based on that. And that translates into the business world because. If education systems make you select and pick [00:07:00] whether you wanna be left brain geared or right. Brain geared, you go to work. And then you realize that, you know, maybe that job you've been doing in finance for the last 15 years is not as [00:07:10] exciting as it once was.

And you're wondering what your purpose is and, you know, am I gonna enjoy doing this for the next 20 years and so on, right. Hence the beginning of a midlife crisis for many people. [00:07:20] Right? And so AI is really. How do we unlock the full potential of a human and how do we do it in a way that, you know, we can drive purpose [00:07:30] for them.

We can drive impact for them. We can drive engagement for them. And the interesting part about it is that the company actually pays for it. So it's a B2B service [00:07:40] and the company pays for it. But in the process, everybody wins, the company wins the individual win. Society wins. And we are structured around this premise of group coaching.

[00:07:50] We are the pioneers of group coaching, one to one coaching, as we all know has been around for a long time and has also been democratized in the last nine to 10 years. And our whole [00:08:00] premise is the group. You know, how do you bring a group of people together in a small, intimate cohort setting where, you know, you kind of build in aspects of psychological safety and you.[00:08:10] 

Start to allow them the space to be vulnerable, to grow in a way that they're not there to look good, but they're there to learn, to share mistakes, to say [00:08:20] it when they don't know what it is. Right. And so in the process, we end up, uh, you know, breaking functional silos, breaking geographical silos, reenacting the [00:08:30] water cooler conversation, increasing things like.

Collaboration innovation, communication, inclusion, um, and even empathy all while [00:08:40] building mindsets for sustainable behavioral change. And the piece that I emphasize is really that sustainable behavioral change. Aspect, because so [00:08:50] much of what corporations do is training. And in training, we, you know, put people in a room, uh, maybe even a digital room, right.

But they're there. We tell them the best practices they need to adopt [00:09:00] it. And guess what? As humans, that's not how we work. We don't change because someone said, these are the five best ways to communicate. We change because we fundamentally have reshaped our [00:09:10] triggers. Had an aha moment. We realized that, you know, when I do X, it doesn't result in what I want.

Right. And so there's a cause and effect analysis. And [00:09:20] so, um, AI is really about allowing the individual to come to their own sort of pace of change. That's sustainable and really. Adopt that as [00:09:30] how they want to behave, live, create impact, and do all the things moving forward. So that is really, um, the story of why AI was born [00:09:40] to fill a gap and to do exactly that around, um, unlocking the human potential of individuals around the world.

[00:09:48] Matt: So much to dig into [00:09:50] in that conversation. Thank you for the summary of, of the purpose, the origin, and really some of the thinking behind it, it's clear that the idea of the collective or the [00:10:00] group plays a big role in your thinking, but as well, the offer and the value proposition. And I'm curious for, you know, how do you strike the balance between as you [00:10:10] pointed out, having.

Individually driven pathways, individually centric coaching, but doing that in a group setting, what role does the group play in helping [00:10:20] reinforce individual learning? 

[00:10:22] Guest 1: Yeah. You know, that that is really our support sauce right there, Matt. Um, it's incredible how the group [00:10:30] is such a mechanism for support and for what we call augmented learning.

And what ends up happening is, you know, individuals, when they go through [00:10:40] individual type learning, There is no comparison point. Like you don't know how others are doing, you don't know what others are struggling with. Like you, sometimes you often feel like, you know, your struggle is your [00:10:50] struggle and nobody else is there with you.

But what's amazing is that in the group, you realize that you are never quite alone. There are people who want to support you. There are people who wanna lift you up. There are people who [00:11:00] having the same challenges as you. And so for us, it's very much about. You know, augmenting the group to help the individual grow.

And, and the way we [00:11:10] run our products are really around this concept of, uh, you know, redesigning a program for transformation. So essentially we kind of have a [00:11:20] couple of things at play here. So there's a customer buyer in an organization who is, who has a charter, you know, a, a top five priority lists. And we are working on those top five [00:11:30] organizational priorities.

So we predesigned for transformation based on that. Then we get into a group coaching session where there are multiple dynamics happening. [00:11:40] There's the individual, there's the group, there's the energy of the group. There's maybe tension points between the group, if they are at intact group, potentially even.

And so then in those [00:11:50] live settings we're solving for. The predesigned for transformation aspect that the customer brought us in to do. We're also solving for the elements of the group. And we're also [00:12:00] solving for the individual in terms of how do they grow and how do they create change on their own between group coaching sessions.

So, as you can [00:12:10] imagine, our coaches have to be experts at doing this. They're like they're managing so many variables at the same time, and this is. So critical for us, how we recruit our [00:12:20] coaches and bring them into the mix and get them ready to deliver to our customers. 

[00:12:25] Matt: Oh, I can absolutely appreciate the level of complexity there's as you mentioned a lot [00:12:30] happening in that kind of environment.

And you know, when I read did the research in advance for me, a couple of use cases just popped immediately to mind understanding this [00:12:40] blend between both individual learning, but also to your earlier points, the, the collective aspect of the group learning. And I think about just as a general comment, [00:12:50] maybe as an.

One thing I'm really pleased to see is as you referenced earlier in the last 10 years, we've really seen a democratization of coaching. Uh, I grew up in an era where coaching [00:13:00] was set aside for the privileged view, especially if it was organizationally funded coaching. Um, for those who wanted to pursue it offline, there wasn't as many options available as there is today.

But [00:13:10] even for those that were. In an organizational context. Generally speaking coaching was provided to a handful of select people, usually who were open for succession, usually in more senior [00:13:20] roles of the company. And it really wasn't available to the vast majority of leaders or supervisors who probably would've benefited as much, if not more from that type of [00:13:30] coaching.

But. Because of hierarchies and the way things used to be done, they just wasn't available now with programs in a more digital context, way more asynchronous learning, and [00:13:40] then as well as solutions, like the ones that you provide, the access, the barriers to access are so much smaller and that can't be anything other than a really good thing for people [00:13:50] that desperately need to close a deficit between leadership skills.

Coaching skills, individual skills. We're at a time right now where things are changing so quickly, [00:14:00] that skills that you didn't even learn 3, 4, 5 years ago are quickly becoming out of, out of touch out of date and leadership looks differently than it did five years ago, three years ago. [00:14:10] So I'm really glad to see organizations like yours taking apart out of that challenge.

I also love it. Um, specifically, as I mentioned for a couple of [00:14:20] use cases, the first one is team building. Um, there's an element of going into a large project or large transformational project, [00:14:30] almost like a cohort type of a mentality where it would be useful to have. Coaching and support for the team alongside what are generally [00:14:40] more all in type activities.

And I found myself in my last corporate roles, a lot of times at the forefront of transformation, either leading restructuring projects or [00:14:50] digital transformations or M and a activities, very intense, defined periods of time, often with cross-functional partners and doing so in addition [00:15:00] to my day to day responsibilities, of course.

So the ability to have. You know, if you will coaching happening in facilitated coaching and development happening in parallel, would've [00:15:10] been an incredible opportunity to one deliver more to those efforts, but two, get some more value out of that experience beyond just the actual, the tasks [00:15:20] themselves. So I, I absolutely see that.

That I see the potential to build both individual skills, but also greater group cohesion. And Mr. I could see the same business case for [00:15:30] somebody stepping new into a role. So maybe there's a new CEO or a new divisional leader, you know, regional head stopping into the organization that. New team new [00:15:40] role, and they need to both be effective in that role, but also build relationships within that role and the opportunity to do some of that work alongside their day to day responsibilities.

So [00:15:50] critical, you know, I've, I've raised two examples of potential use cases. What are some things that you also see from your customers patterns, where they're seeing a real strong use case for your. [00:16:00] 

[00:16:01] Guest 1: Yeah. And, and I love these use cases, not especially because, uh, you know, the transformation one that you talked about is so critical because companies [00:16:10] forget that, you know, at the other side of the transformation effort is, is a group of humans who feel proud about the work that they did.

Right. [00:16:20] Like looking back, they're like, wow, that was crazy. But that was amazing. Like we were equipped to go do it the right way. And we were given the skills we needed to be successful. And oftentimes. [00:16:30] You don't hear that you actually hear that it was confusing. I dunno what my role was, things got really messy.

Everything's a shit show, right? like, that's a lot of stuff that you [00:16:40] hear. And so, um, you know, using kind of group coaching along set of transformation is probably the most effective way to have a transformation goes super smoothly and to get to the [00:16:50] other side, Faster with greater impact. Other use cases we see is we do a ton of work cross functionally, actually.

So organizations bring us in, uh, [00:17:00] usually again, aligned to their top five priorities, but they really bring us to break, um, silos and to create cross functional innovation. And so that is an [00:17:10] area that we play a large role in, and we can at any one time in one group coaching session, there can be three C.

In that session, that's based on how time zones work. Right? So the [00:17:20] power of like, you know, same company, but literally you've got someone from Indonesia. You've got someone from, you know, maybe Australia and someone from, [00:17:30] uh, you know, Belgium all in the same session. And. There's incredible power in that you build these stakeholder relationships and you can just imagine the ripple effect of those [00:17:40] stakeholder relationships in creating allies in the workplace cross-functionally collaborating.

And so on. Uh, another use case is. You know, we get often brought in to [00:17:50] build bench strength in organizations and engineering, head of engineering might say, you know, I've got amazing technical talent, but I don't have successors. And my technical team [00:18:00] cannot fill the roles fast enough up the different layers of the organization.

So help me build that engineering bench strength. So I can actually have. Solid succession plan business [00:18:10] models can change. We also get brought in for that. It can be on the sales side. I mean, there are so many endless use cases. The bottom line is if you have people in your organization [00:18:20] and you need, need them to do something, anything you need to manage that process and you need to set them up for success.

And that is what we come in and do [00:18:30] completely customized and tailored for the organiz. 

[00:18:34] Matt: I hope there are some folks taking the notes down from this conversation. Cause I think you're hitting on so many key, key [00:18:40] learnings, especially having all of us collectively been through the pandemic over the last two plus years, the opportunity to build that cohesion within the team is just so critical.[00:18:50] 

And when I look at things like the great resignation or results from various organizations around turnover, data people aren't necessarily leaving jobs for. [00:19:00] They're leaving jobs because they may feel that they've hit a roadblock when it comes to their personal development or their personal succession within the organization, they may want a different challenge or be [00:19:10] exposed to new ideas, new thinking, new people and the opportunity to.

Do that while also providing for [00:19:20] significant value to the organization, isn't really that hard to achieve with some intention. And I think about a program like you offer, and I wish it was available to me back in previous, you know, [00:19:30] executive roles. When I would've been asking people to take, to cut, take a journey with me that could have lasted 6, 12, 18, 24 months.

And that I knew would be asking a [00:19:40] lot from. In that process. Now at the time, my sales pitch was always something to the effect of the experiential learning you'll get from. This will be very helpful for your [00:19:50] career, your promotion ability, all those types of things, but then being able to say that, and with a degree of confidence, say you will also as an individual learn and grow from this, [00:20:00] and we're gonna have support alongside you while this happens is just such a great selling feature.

And for organizations looking at retention, strateg. I can't think of a [00:20:10] stronger one, then you're gonna learn a lot. You're gonna grow as an individual grow as a team. Those are the kind of situations employees increasingly wanna put themselves in. [00:20:20] It's no longer accessible to say, just wait 10 years.

You'll eventually get your due. People wanna know, companies are actively investing in them. And coaching is, is one way to go [00:20:30] about doing that.

[00:20:33] Guest 1: Yeah, you're absolutely right, Matt. And also I think that people want unique development [00:20:40] opportunities. You know, they, they're not looking for what, what they've been offered for the last 10 years. Like they don't want to sit in a classroom. They don't want to just get access to another training program [00:20:50] on becoming a new manager.

They want something unique because we're now in the employee experience world, like employees are looking. For experiences, they want [00:21:00] opportunities that their coworkers haven't maybe had maybe their friends in other companies haven't had. Right. And so I think that's such a unique aspect to what we do, which is that [00:21:10] we, most people we work with, I mean, almost entirely, maybe they've had a coach at some point in their life, even if it was a life coach, a fitness coach, a career coach, [00:21:20] maybe an executive coach.

I mean, we only work with executive coaches, but they might have had a coach. Um, but they've almost. Not being through group coaching [00:21:30] and group coaching ends up becoming such a transformational exercise for them because of the relationships, the support. I mean, if you go back to kind of what I said about humans wanting the [00:21:40] same thing, they want support, they want communities, they want people they can count on.

They want love. They want psychological. Safety, they get all of that in a group coaching [00:21:50] session that their company offers them and they become more impactful leaders. They become more engaged. They actually take pride in their work. And you know, there's data that says that [00:22:00] when you give an individual access to living their best life at work, They put in 12% more discretionary effort into their job.

I mean, how [00:22:10] awesome is that and who doesn't wanna be a rockstar work, right? Like, or in everything they do who doesn't wanna get the accolades. So this is about. Going, even beyond what we know [00:22:20] coaching to be and development to be, to actually say, like, how do I give my people access to unique opportunities that are going to change their life at the workplace and also outside.[00:22:30] 

And then what does that do for them in terms of them as a whole human, that brings their whole human self to work every day, whether you like it or not, how do you help that whole human. [00:22:40] Fulfilled and impactful and purposeful and living a better life. And that's really kind of the essence of, you know, the plethora of activities that we do and the [00:22:50] benefits that companies reap and individuals of course, as well.

[00:22:56] Matt: And when I think about opportunities, I also think about your own team. [00:23:00] You've always been a digital first organization. You have a presence in 55 unique countries that gives your team a really broad [00:23:10] lens on what's happening in, in the broader landscape. And I'm curious, being in so many countries has having so many different experiences with different company sizes and industries and use cases.[00:23:20] 

What have you learned about.

[00:23:24] Guest 1: Really great question. So I would say that, um, the thing that [00:23:30] I've learned the most about coaching is that what you put is what you get out and it's not a journey. Anyone can force you on. It's not a journey that. You know, [00:23:40] you'll reap any kind of benefit from if you're not open to the process. Uh, you know, I actually go through a lot of coaching myself.

And so we, as a team, of course, we drink our own champagne. We go through group [00:23:50] coaching as a team, and then I also work with the coach one to one as well. And, uh, you know, development is really. A never ending journey. And I mean, I kind of, [00:24:00] um, you know, an example is really a piano, right? Like you can have a piano in your house.

That's playing at its optimal capacity. If you don't tune it every so many [00:24:10] months, humans are the same. We cannot be at our optimal capacity living our best lives, you know, working our. Best careers. If we are not [00:24:20] tuned on a regular basis as well. And tuning means that we've gotta be willing to go internal.

We have to be willing to do the hard work. We have to be willing to look at ourselves in the mirror [00:24:30] and actually see the reflections of the things that we like. And we don't like, and the things that we should keep doing and we should change. And so for me, uh, you know, in coaching, what I keep learning [00:24:40] is that it's a never ending journey just when you think you're over.

You know, one aspect of personal growth, there is something else around the corner that requires growth as well. And how amazing that [00:24:50] we can actually spend time and energy focused on us becoming better versions of ourselves. I, I think that's just in itself phenomenal. And if you have that [00:25:00] opportunity and you can take advantage of it.

I mean life kind of doesn't get better. So for me, it's a never ending quest to be a better version of me. And I hope others see [00:25:10] it the same way. And when they do, I mean, that's really a gift that we can give them through AI. 

[00:25:17] Matt: I'm a huge fan of applying [00:25:20] consciousness and intentionality to your life. And I think coaching is an extension of that, and it's an acknowledgement that you need people in your corner at various [00:25:30] inflection points and perhaps along the entire journey, as you seek to, to your point, find that best version of yourself in whatever.

That might form. [00:25:40] And I know that at times, coaching can sometimes get a bad rap that people can attribute a lot of negative connotations to it because there's a [00:25:50] misunderstanding around the value, or there's been lack of exposure to it. But I think that narrative is changing. And in fact, I know that it's changing and we see more and more solutions available.[00:26:00] 

We see a greater conversation around mental health and an acknowledgement that coaching can be a great compliment to the other self care things. You. In your life [00:26:10] and that it can be a real great accelerant for some of the progress that you're talking about. And at the same time, there's a very strong bias in the coaching profession and in the [00:26:20] coaching kind of histories, if you will, around in person.

And there's a real strong bias towards sitting across the room from somebody being in the same [00:26:30] space and having a coaching conversation. We, we, at this point still assign that a bit more value than over a, a digital linear communication tool. I'm [00:26:40] curious how you get around that conversation, how you position the value of digital in a space where people might be reluctant to take those conversations [00:26:50] online as it were.

[00:26:51] Guest 1: Yeah, well, I mean, gosh, you said so many great things here, Matt. Um, in terms of aspects we could dive into, I'll get to kind of the digital piece first. So when we [00:27:00] first started and we opened our doors, we were digital. So the whole COVID digital world was our world. We were doing digital happy hours, et cetera.

I mean, the team is based literally around the [00:27:10] world and, um, Companies were open minded to the aspect of digital at the time, but not necessarily willing to always jump in. It was [00:27:20] interesting to them, but they're like, Hmm, how do we make it work? People wanna be next to each other, just as you said. And then, um, there were some companies that were progressive and they [00:27:30] felt like digital was the way to actually provide more access.

So one, one of the key pillars or tenants around how AI and why AI. Built the way it [00:27:40] was and is, is the word access. I wanted anyone in any corner of the world. It didn't matter where they sat to have access to coaching. They [00:27:50] didn't need the money to have, uh, you know, access to coaching in terms of getting on a flight, uh, you know, traveling long distances, et cetera.

So when companies. Started to understand that [00:28:00] access was the key level here. There was a big kind of pull to where it's like, yeah, actually we can make that work. Like our executives can't travel. Our individual contributors, can't travel on a regular [00:28:10] basis to meet and get the development that they need.

So let's give them access on a digital level and let's open up what access means, which means that. [00:28:20] We can literally hit any corner of the globe with our employees, because we don't even have to think about any limitations, right. The limitations just go away. So some companies jumped right [00:28:30] in others were a little bit reluctant, but then of course COVID hit and everybody jumped right in.

So, so for us, when we think about coaching, we think about access, but I also wanna touch on something you just said [00:28:40] before around coaching, sometimes having a bad rep and you are spot on, um, the problem in this industry. And it is a problem is that there are a lot of people out [00:28:50] there who think they're a coach.

And while, you know, that's great, there are so many different types of coaches. So it's super important to be able to differentiate between a life coach and [00:29:00] a career coach and a wellness coach and a physi fitness coach and an executive slash leadership coach. Those are very different coaching styles and [00:29:10] very different outcomes that you're going to get to.

And as a result, oftentimes. You know, you end up with a coach and they're not a great coach. And you're like, oh, [00:29:20] this is what coaching is. Yeah, no, not for me. Right. I, I hear this very often where people are like, well, we use X company and I had to go through three coaches until I found a coach. That [00:29:30] was a good coach for me, you know, that I resonated with, felt like I really had a lot to learn from.

So I think there's that aspect of, you know, everyone thinks Sarah coach and you have to find the right coach for you. [00:29:40] And there's a lot. Bad coaches out there. I hate to say it, but it's true. I also think that, you know, when it comes to coaching in the past, we've given people, [00:29:50] coaches, like you said before, when you know, you have a big charter and you know, you're someone very important in the company or the reverse, you are doing a bad job.

And you need someone to [00:30:00] help you uplift your performance. So we tend to think of coaching as very deliberate towards a certain outcome, but we don't think of coaching or maybe we're starting to now for [00:30:10] sure. Think about coaching in terms of like, this is an ongoing activity that is not about course correcting.

It's not about just having a big charter and [00:30:20] you are the only one who's gonna get a coach. This is an ongoing activity around helping your people be the best they can. And it's as simple as that and the [00:30:30] question, every business leader, who's making decisions around their budgets and where that money should be spent, they should be asking is, you know, how quickly do I want to get to [00:30:40] my strategic priorities?

Do I wanna get there the painful way? Do I wanna get there the easy way? Do I wanna get there the fast way? Right. Like how quickly do I wanna get there? And when I get there, do I wanna [00:30:50] retain the people who are on that journey with me and do I want them. Proud of what we accomplished. Do I want great people at my company to stay a really long time, right?

And it's [00:31:00] these sorts of questions that we really should be asking, cuz we are very quick to throw money into a technology implementation project without staffing it up the right way or giving people the right [00:31:10] resources to be successful. We don't even know if adoption actually occurs right in the right way.

Change management is often. Quick sort of plan to get to the other side, but it's not [00:31:20] really about sustainability. And so when I think about coaching, you know, I really think about like, what's the sustainable plan to get to the other side in [00:31:30] an accelerated way that gets you winning as the company, the individuals winning as individuals who have lives and careers and all of that and [00:31:40] society winning because society is the culmination.

All the people who work in your company and work at the other company and the other company. Right? So there's this incredible benefit [00:31:50] from coaching, which more and more leaders are starting to recognize, which I love seeing. And I think it's the leaders who are progressive and who are innovative and who get it.

Like [00:32:00] they get the human aspect of reaching their business goals. They're they are the ones who are going to win. Right. And so many others who don't get it and still think of kind of coaching as [00:32:10] a nice to have, or human development as a nice to have. Very soon. They'll start to see that they get left behind.

And I think the human aspect could not be more clear [00:32:20] coming out of COVID. Right. In terms of, you know, just the implications of COVID the demands of a manager and a leader during COVID. I mean, they were playing so many [00:32:30] different roles and then with black lives matter happening as well, you know, even more exasperated, right.

What our human needs are. What our capacity for wanting things are how [00:32:40] important the employee experience is. So I really believe that leaders will get it other ones who are gonna.

[00:32:48] Matt: It's such a [00:32:50] complicated question and a complicated challenge that I think the more opportunities and the more options we provide for individuals to start to self-serve [00:33:00] or to bring different exposure back to the broader group. We can't have enough of that, but I, I absolutely appreciate your comments around being more discerning around [00:33:10] the types of coaches and the types of coaching that you need.

And I think what we're both saying is. We're fans of coaching. Like there's a significant value in [00:33:20] having somebody be there to support and facilitate. And if necessary holds you accountable to achieving goals that you set out for yourself, and there's real benefits in that, there's also benefits in having somebody who [00:33:30] can connect you to other practitioners or resources or tools to help you on that journey.

And if you can do that in the context of. A broader organizational team. [00:33:40] There's significant benefits to both the individual and the team along with the collective organization for that. And I, at the same time, [00:33:50] appreciate that. There is a lot happening in the broader industry. So I'm curious from your vantage point, what do you see that's next for AI?[00:34:00] 

[00:34:00] Guest 1: So, um, I would say Fori what I'm really curious about is, you know, we have always looked at learning and when I say we, I say [00:34:10] society by large, we look at learning as an intellectual desire. So, you know, already it, it eliminates a bunch of people, right? Because [00:34:20] learning is one of those things where, you know, you have to have an appetite to learn.

You have to be ambitious, you have to have, you know, access, you need to know that you can use those skills somewhere. [00:34:30] And there are certain individuals in job profiles that want to learn. And then there are certain individuals in job profiles and roles and stuff where learning isn't really. An [00:34:40] important thing by, by nature of that job, right?

I mean, you could take even blue collar and white collar employees, right? Like there's a greater appetite in the white collar space to go [00:34:50] kind of learn for yourself because you can see a succession plan for you and where that could lead you and maybe in a blue collar job, not so much unless it's technical training.

[00:35:00] So I'm, I'm really curious. How do we get over this hump of learning, being just an intellectual desire? Can it be a desire for everybody, whether it's [00:35:10] intellectual or not. And, um, you know, that is sort of the problem that I want to solve in general. When I think about this space and, uh, you know, the [00:35:20] impact this space can really have, this is really what's top of mind for me in terms of where we'll be going next.

[00:35:29] Matt: What [00:35:30] about. One thing that drew me to your profile right off the bat was just how many things you've been involved with and whether it's the extensive travel [00:35:40] three businesses now with the presence in 55 countries and alongside that you find time to paint and dance and enjoy your life. What's next for you?[00:35:50] 

[00:35:51] Guest 1: Uh, I'm a big believer, Matt, that it's really easy to live a mediocre life. Living a mediocre life requires actually not a lot of effort. [00:36:00] You just go in the flow decisions happen, things happen to you. You kind of, you know, cruise. Through stuff. I really, really, really believe that living a great life [00:36:10] requires a lot of work.

Like you've gotta make tough decisions. Sometimes it's eliminating people from your life. It's saying no to things. It's being very, um, careful of where you spend your [00:36:20] time and it's creating experiences for yourself. So you can grow and being open to the possibility of new things, new people, et cetera. Um, so one of my, [00:36:30] um, my hashtags, if you will, is.

Big. It's a really important one for me. And so when I think of what's next for me, I always think about what is that next experience [00:36:40] that's gonna open my mind? Who is that next person I'm gonna meet? That's gonna help me think about things differently and maybe I'll never see them again, cuz they sat next to me on a plane.

And then that was the end of that. [00:36:50] But I'm always thinking about like, how is my mind gonna expand? How am my experiences gonna expand? How am I gonna become a better kinder, empathetic, more compassionate. [00:37:00] Person in terms of the work. I do, the people I lead, the interactions I have and can I inspire people to achieve their dreams?

Right. Can I can. [00:37:10] Somehow in some small way, give them a nugget of information or inspiration that will allow them to say, you know, what, if she can do it, I can do it. So for me, what's next is [00:37:20] more of that. And, um, the possibility of newness and who knows where that'll set me off to, cuz I'm definitely an adventurous.

Uh, spirit. I work multiple time [00:37:30] zones all the time, cuz I, I just love adventure and I love being out there and I love expanding and, and realizing more and more of who I can be. And eventually will. [00:37:40] 

[00:37:41] Matt: I've so enjoyed the conversation, whether it was about your background, your experiences, your organization, and just your broader thoughts on the state of affairs.

It's been a real [00:37:50] pleasure and perhaps one day I might bump into you in one of those global locations. 

[00:37:54] Guest 1: I would love that Matt. And thank you. It's been such a pleasure, such good, um, such a good [00:38:00] conversation and so many great nuggets of information. So thank you so much for having me on the show. Really.