How I Retired at 31 - Bradley Rice

In today’s episode, I chat with Bradley Rice, a Salesforce Career Expert based in Tampa, Florida.

Bradley has an incredible story. He worked in the Tech Ecosystem for over 10 years and along the way, developed a system that had him earning $225,000 annually, working just 20 hours per week. But this isn’t some get-rich-quick-scheme. Rather, Bradley’s story is one of hard-work, a near-obsession with personal savings, and great timing. 

The world has shifted; is shifting. And there are opportunities abound for individuals willing to challenge the status quo. Bradley is one such individual. And although this incredible career positioned him to retire at 31, he wasn't done, launching Talent Stacker as a way of helping others realize the same financial independence he benefited from. Bradley has helped over 20,000 individuals start their tech careers with no degree, no tech  background with a starting salary of over $70,000 in an average of 4.3 months!

In this episode, Bradley & I cover a lot of fertile ground, beginning with his own story. We chatted about the importance of intentional lifestyle design, today’s modern job market, and what lessons he learned along the way. It was such a pleasure connecting with Bradley. And I hope you enjoy it.


Bradley Rice

Bradley has worked in the Tech Ecosystem for over 10 years and became one  of the highest-paid Tech Professionals in the world making $225,000  working just 20 hours per week. Although this incredible career positioned  him to retire at 31 years old, he was determined that he wasn't done with his  professional career and started Talent Stacker as a service to put others on  the same path that led him to Financial Independence.

He has now helped  over 20,000 individuals start their tech careers with no degree, no tech  background with a starting salary of over $70,000 in an average of 4.3 months!

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Constraints drive innovation. We tackle the most complex issues related to work & culture. And if you enjoy the work we’re doing here, consider giving us a 5-star rating, leaving a comment & subscribing. It ensures you get updated whenever we release new content & really helps amplify our message. 

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Matt Burns

Matt Burns is an award-winning executive, social entrepreneur and speaker. He believes in the power of community, simplicity & technology.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Guest 1: I, I would just say think creatively and think strategically about how you can design a life that actually leads you to the things that you value instead of the things that society values for you. And you might find yourself in a totally different, I think state of mind[00:00:20] 

[00:00:31] Matt: constraints drive innovation. Hey everyone. It's Matt here for another episode of Thinking Inside the Box, a show where we discuss complex issues [00:00:40] related to work and culture. If you're interested in checking out our other content, you can find us@bentohr.com and wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

By searching, thinking inside the box, and if you enjoy the work we're doing here, consider leaving us a five star rating, a comment and striving. [00:01:00] It ensures you get updated whenever we release new content and really helps amplify our message. In today's episode, I chat with Bradley Rice, a Salesforce career expert based in Tampa, Florida.

Bradley has an incredible story. He's worked in the tech industry for over 10 years [00:01:20] and along the way developed the system that had him earning $225,000 a year, working just 20 hours per week. But this isn't some get rich quick scheme. Rather. Bradley's story is one of hard work, a near obsession with personal savings and great timing.

The world [00:01:40] has shifted. It is shifting, and there are opportunities abound for individuals willing to challenge the status quo. Bradley well, he's won such individual and although this incredible career positioned him to retire at 30. He wasn't done there. Launching [00:02:00] talent stacker as a way of helping others realize the same financial independence that he benefited from.

Along the way, Bradley has helped over 20,000 individuals start their tech careers with no degree, no tech background, and with a starting salary in some cases of over $70,000 a year [00:02:20] in an average of four and a half months. In this episode, Bradley and I cover a lot of Fertil. Beginning with his own story, but also we chatted about the importance of intentional lifestyle design, today's modern job market, and the lessons that he's learned along the way.

It was a [00:02:40] real pleasure connecting with Bradley, and I hope you enjoyed as well. And now I bring you Bradley Rice. Well, hello Bradley. How are you 

[00:02:48] Guest 1: doing today? I am doing great. Thanks for having me on the show, Matt. I'm definitely excited to talk to your audience and hopefully we can bring some information that excites them.

So, yeah, 

[00:02:58] Matt: well, before we get [00:03:00] into that, and I think we're gonna absolutely achieve that goal, but before we get into that, let's talk a bit about who Bradley is. So maybe walk us through who you are, your background, your experiences, and 

[00:03:09] Guest 1: what led you to. Yeah, so, uh, the basics. I am a husband, been married for about 10 years now.

I've got a six year old daughter who starts kindergarten this year, so that's pretty wild [00:03:20] for us. Uh, who am I as a professional? I've been, uh, in the tech space for about 12 years now. Um, so I, I know a lot about technology, especially like cloud and remote work. Um, so I enjoy those topics. I enjoy helping people find out more about those topics.

Uh, at 31 years old, about 10 [00:03:40] years into my career, I was positioned to retire. So I've been very fortunate to have a lot of flexibility in my life to pursue, I would say things that are passions, or at least things that I think might be a passion that I wanna spend some time on. Uh, so yeah, it's, it's led to a life that I'm certainly appreciative of and hoping that I can at least have some sort of small [00:04:00] impact on the, on the community around me.

Well, you know, 

[00:04:02] Matt: I can't leave the topic of retired at 31 alone, uh, at a time when most of my network has taking a bath in the markets or has had some job. Discontinuation or upsetting going on over the last two and a half, three years. A lot of people, I'm sure are closing their eyes and [00:04:20] dreaming about an early retirement.

[00:04:22] Guest 1: How did you make that happen? Yeah, it's a good question and obviously it's a question I get a lot when I share that and to, to be honest, I was, I think maybe a rare breed, but maybe for your audience, not that rare of a breed. I was frugal even as a kid. I remember my brother got a four wheeler when he turned [00:04:40] 12, and he was two years older than me.

He got a four wheeler. It costs $2,000. Um, when I turned 12, my parents said, Okay, you've got $2,000 to spend on, you know, an ATV if you want one. And I said, Hey, can I just have the $2,000? And I convinced my brother to sell me his used four wheeler for 500 bucks so he could go get a new one. And I've [00:05:00] always thought in that framework of how can I do the same thing that everyone else is doing, but somehow spend less money doing it?

Um, so it wasn't necessarily a deprivation mindset, it was more of a creativity mindset. And, and I, I grew up with great depression grandparents, uh, born in the 19 teens, [00:05:20] and they were definitely always on top of me. You know, turn the lights off, keep the doors shut, recycle cans. Um, every penny counts like, uh, came from an agricultural and farming, uh, family.

And then my parents did livestock farming. So these are not luxurious lifestyles. It was very much about pinching pennies and [00:05:40] making, you know, every ray of sunlight, uh, and every dollar count. So I was raised in an environment where it was. Very much being cognizant of money and how you spend money and how you use money as a tool.

Um, not necessarily, uh, as something to go live fri frivolously and like have all these amazing things. Uh, so I took that with me and, [00:06:00] uh, like the, the weirdest thing I can say for for sure, I was the only person in my graduating class where when we took. Economics, my senior year of high school, I was excited, like I was thrilled about these topics, um, that no one else cared about.

Like I, I loved Com compound interest. I loved this idea of elasticity in supply and demand and all these [00:06:20] different concepts that no one else cared about. And so when I went to college, I knew exactly what I wanted to do, and I got a degree in economics. Now the problem was, I knew what I wanted to study, right?

But I didn't know how I was gonna use that to actually earn income. Uh, so I got my Bachelor's of Economics and sure enough, uh, came outta college and had no [00:06:40] idea what it was going to do. Got into financial advising for just a little while, um, like six months, and I hated it. And so I wanted to do something different and I just started applying for every job I could find, Trip, and fell into a job called a junior Salesforce consultant.

And from there things really took off. That was. It was a tech job. I got [00:07:00] to work from home and basically what I did as a professional was helped businesses streamline and become more productive so that they could scale without having to hire just as many employees, right? They could double the revenue without hiring double the employees.

And I really enjoyed sort of that process driven thinking and using a platform like [00:07:20] Salesforce to impact massive change on employees and companies. And I think because of that passion, it ended up being very, I guess it, it just made a lot of money. I made a lot of money doing it, so I, I started off at 30 K in my first job.

Uh, by year five I was making $225,000 a year, [00:07:40] working 20 hours a week. And I was only maybe 26 years old at that point. And so by the time I hit 31, I kept my spending down. I didn't move into a big house or buy vacation homes or luxury cars or anything else, and I just kept rolling in that. 200 k plus income for the next five years.

And, you know, we can, we can break the [00:08:00] math down, but by the time I was 31, uh, you know, balancing high income and a frugal lifestyle, um, positioned myself to. Not have to work anymore. And that allowed me a lot of options, like doing the stuff I'm up to today. 

[00:08:15] Matt: And I absolutely want to come back to what you're doing today cause I think it's a fascinating [00:08:20] evolution of your story.

But I wanna spend a bit more time talking about the work that you started out with. So as you mentioned, your background was in economics. It was in financial. So obviously the transition from that into more of a technology process oriented career path was likely unexpected. And I'm curious for you what those [00:08:40] first 30, 60, 90 days were like as you were kind of finding your way 

[00:08:44] Guest 1: into a new space.

That's a, that's a really interesting question. I don't, I don't think I've gotten that question before, but the truth is, uh, Nell on the head, 90 days, three months. I remember this, I, we were living in a little town home that we picked up in, uh, West Georgia, which is where I [00:09:00] lived, and we got that for $74,000.

That was in 2014. Sorry, that's wrong. 2010. Yeah, 2010. And got that for, Yeah, right around 70, $75,000. And my wife was excited because I finally had a salary even though it was only 30 grand. Um, I had a [00:09:20] 401k and I could contribute to a Roth ira and I could do all the things that adults do, and I could pay the mortgage and it was.

Um, but those first 90 days, I, I, I think I was cool for about the first four to five weeks, and then I just felt absolutely lost up to about the three month point I wanted to quit. But [00:09:40] the truth is what, what I sort of refer to as the golden handcuffs, you know, I, I finally had the adult job. I finally had a career and a salary and a steady paycheck and a nine to five job.

Um, and that was great compared to not knowing what you were gonna do next. Liking your job at all. So my wife said, There's no way you're quitting. You're gonna figure this thing out, but until you have a [00:10:00] better opportunity on the table, you gotta stick this thing out. And I was fortunate, I had some really great mentors at work in that first job, and they said, Hey Brad, like don't give up on this thing.

This is a career. This is not a job. Like you can make a ton of money doing this. You get to, you know, enjoy life more than a lot of people get to, uh, in their work environments. And you should stick this out. And I can tell you, [00:10:20] Six month mark things were starting to click. And by that one year mark, I was naive enough to think I, I knew everything.

Um, so it was, uh, quite the transition, but the first 90 days were definitely a challenge. Well, and it sounds 

[00:10:32] Matt: like you had a lot of people in your corner. I, I'm curious for you. What did an average day look like in those first, you know, 12 [00:10:40] months? Like we talked a bit about, you know, working from home and having that freedom and, and obviously earning a, a, a good salary.

But alongside that, some real significant struggles and challenges. What do those, what did that first 12 months look like 

[00:10:52] Guest 1: for you, like day to day? Yeah, at first, um, again, I mentioned I had, uh, a great mentor. Uh, the, the guy who management, his name was Jeff [00:11:00] Richards, and he was, I don't know if he intended to be this intelligent about the way he brought me up, uh, in the business world, but either way, it worked out.

And so what he would do, Is we had virtual calls. Uh, I, I can't quite remember exactly what days of the week, but it wasn't something like Monday. We met with the sales department. [00:11:20] Tuesday we met with the marketing department. Wednesday I shadowed the other tech workers. Basically the other Salesforce professionals at the company and base literally just looked over their shoulder and they would kind of narrate what they were working on and why they were doing it.

Uh, on Thursdays we would meet with the accounting department, and then on Fridays I would have these all [00:11:40] hands calls and, um, just with the entire team and my manager and director and, you know, all these other people. And I think that's why, it's part of why I felt so overwhelmed. But it's also why I felt, uh, I think why I was able to be successful so rapidly and I was lost in those conversations with sales and marketing and finance.

I had no idea [00:12:00] what was going on, but little did I know those little bits of exposure to the entire business and this was a multi tens of millions of dollar in revenue business. And that exposure to those conversations, even though I was lost 90% of the time, allowed me to understand the business as an entire process instead of his one.

Piece of the [00:12:20] business, I understood the entire business. Uh, so the first three months, like I mentioned, you know, it was really difficult. But over the next nine months after that, you know, rounding off that first year, Things started to really click. I had some conversations with other Salesforce professionals.

They would explain how the platform works, and there were just moments of that, just enlightenment, where it [00:12:40] was like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe I didn't know that for the first six months of doing this. How did I even function without knowing that? Wow, that's incredible. And I started to find myself and my confidence and I sort of knew.

My abilities and what, what I was capable of, but also my shortcomings and where I needed more help. And I think the biggest thing [00:13:00] was I started to learn how to find help and find online communities, not just my coworkers, but you know, these forums and communities that I could join, uh, where there were tens of thousands, hundreds of thousand, millions of people out there doing the same job I was doing just for different companies.

And once I found those communities and that support system things, [00:13:20] Very easy. And I found myself in a position to actually help other people in those communities. And I think that was a, one of the more rewarding parts of being a professional was being able to help other people not struggle with the same struggles I had struggled with for those first nine 91st 180 days, um, to help those beginners get their feet on the [00:13:40] ground without having to feel, you know, so lost.

You mentioned earlier 

[00:13:43] Matt: that a lot of the work that you did helped support organizations in some cases double in size without doubling their workforce, finding efficiencies with their technology, digitizing their operations. What was a profile of an average client like for you? Could you [00:14:00] maybe just give us an example of like what was a use case or a case study of someone that you worked with and what the problem statement was when they came your way and some of the activities that you undertook and what was some of the result on the back end 

of 

[00:14:11] Guest 1: all that?

Yeah, for sure. So, um, I can talk about, you know, that's basically what you're describing is exactly what I did for, you know, 10, 12 [00:14:20] years and that was client comes with a pain point, you help them understand. That pain point and why that's happening, they typically have a solution that they think is the solution to the problem.

Uh, then as the expert, you should tell them how Salesforce works as a platform, what you've seen other businesses in their industry do in these types of situations. And [00:14:40] then help them relearn what that solution might be. Because a lot of times you find people, uh, trying to bandaid a situation or jumping to conclusions and they're not really understanding the root cause of a problem, and you can help them get to the bottom.

And a lot of times you can help 'em automate it and never have to look at it again. So what, what are some of those situational, Um, a very common one. [00:15:00] Was, uh, like the, the front end of the business process of lead generation. So you had great marketing teams out there who were bringing leads into the system, but the first step of that process is qualifying a lead.

And they didn't have a quality qualification process. So you had [00:15:20] sales teams getting on the phone with leads. that kicking the tires would be giving it too much credit. Like they were in no position, they didn't understand the product, and they were having to sit on a sales call and educate a potential customer about the product because there was no nurture process [00:15:40] and you would be surprised at how many.

Million dollar multimillion dollar companies don't have quality processes all the way from lead generation through sales, through supporting customers. And for specific use cases like that, you implement, it sounds complex marketing automation platforms. Okay, so there's so many, There's like very cheap [00:16:00] versions like MailChimp or Active Campaign that have limited functionality, but that can still be extremely valuable.

And then you. Enterprise level, like Marketing Cloud or Pardot or Marketo, and they can do amazing things. And so what we do is we help the company understand their budget and we help them implement a nurture track. And what that does is when that lead [00:16:20] fills out the form online instead of. Putting in a phone number and getting a call from a sales rep tomorrow.

Instead, they're being added to an email track. They're being evaluated, they're being educated about the product. They're being sent videos and emails, and then once they have enough opens, clicks. [00:16:40] Responses, they're being scored, right? And you can say, Oh wow, this person's not opening any of our emails. Why would we ever call them?

This person's clicking a couple of things, but really not all that much. Probably not gonna call them either. Gonna continue to nurture them. Wow, this person is. Replying to our marketing emails, opening our stuff, watching our videos all the way through. [00:17:00] This is someone who is truly interested in our product.

Let's give those people a call. And what do you know now your sales reps are hopping on calls. And with that company in particular, we increased call to conversion by it was over a thousand percent. So you're looking at. A rep was hopping on a call with a hundred people, [00:17:20] or you know, maybe more realistically, 20 people in a day and some days getting zero conversions, maybe one or two at the most because these are such unqualified leads.

And then all of a sudden you're taking that same person, same salary, uh, same, you know, resources and benefits and all those kind of things. And all of a sudden, because the leads are so much hotter, [00:17:40] they're converting 10. 15 of those leads every single day. So instead of expanding your sales team to help make room, to call thousands of people that your marketing team is generating every day, you've got an automated process that does ha takes absolutely no manpower.

Once the process is implemented and it works on its [00:18:00] own, and now a sales team can be a thousand percent more productive, and you're talking about a 30 to 60 day project that needs to take place and my cost. 10, $15,000 to have a consultant come in and implement those processes. It's an absolute game changer for companies and you can have that level of impact in multiple parts of the business [00:18:20] process, not just lead gen and getting that to the sales team, but every single piece of the process.

[00:18:25] Matt: Well, and to your point, aside from the the functionality and obviously the expanded reach and the efficiencies you gain with process, you are illuminating a different way of working for organizations. Is foreign. And as [00:18:40] somebody who also has a consultancy that focuses on digital transformation, albeit in our own way, I can absolutely resonate with the idea of people having a solution and a confirmation bias and the, the challenge of working through with a client on establishing perhaps a different point, vantage point, or a different path forward.[00:19:00] 

And the genius of them arriving at their own solution through a facilitated process. So I'm not surprised to hear you had a lot of success in doing that. Hey everyone, it's Matt here. I hope you're enjoying today's discussion. And before we continue, I want to make you aware of my latest creative [00:19:20] project this week at Work, presented in partnership with my good friend Chris Rainey of HR leaders.

Each Friday, we'll livestream on LinkedIn at 7:00 AM Pacific Standard Time. That's 10:00 AM Eastern Standard Time and 3:00 PM GMT for our European viewers. And together bringing the latest trends, [00:19:40] news on topics emanating from organizations, everything from culture to technology, and the future of work.

Joining is easy. Just follow me on LinkedIn. Click the bell at the top right hand side of my profile and you'll get notified when we go live each. And whether you do experience the content live or later, if you've been following [00:20:00] me for a while, you'll no doubt recognize the fun banter Chris and I have developed over the years and whether it's been podcasts or digital events.

We're so excited to, again, bring you the topics affecting today's workplaces and their leaders. . And now back to our discussion. I'm curious, when you look back at that role, [00:20:20] what were some things that you took away from that you were able to apply as you went forward? Because we've talked about offline, obviously that career expanded, that um, you know, your life path evolved.

You went on to do other things. What were some of the lessons you took away from those early years of working within that, uh, that construct? 

[00:20:39] Guest 1: [00:20:40] Yeah, I think the first thing was, I, I think the first big thing that I learned was that expectations are key, and that's not just in the business world. That's really in any relationship setting, proper expectations, because there were so many times that I was what we call delivery, right?

So we have a salesperson who goes and sells this statement of work and the work that I'm [00:21:00] gonna do as a consultant. And then by the time it gets to me, I implement something totally different than the expectations of the client. But that's what the sales team had said we needed to get done, but it's not what the client was expecting to have done.

And so I slowly learned, wow, expectations are absolutely key. Like we have to [00:21:20] level set the expectations of the customers regardless what they were sold. We have to make sure that their expectations align with what we're about to give them. That was one of the first big understandings and what it did is it slowed down the front end of the process, which a lot of consultants hate cuz they wanna get busy working.

And what it did is it cost some more meetings and conversations [00:21:40] and making sure we were aligned. But it led to massive benefits. And I'll say that carries into what I sort of consider soft skills in the business world, which I think are. Exponentially more important than the technical skills because you can be as technically skilled as you want to be.

And if you don't have an ability to manage a project, uh, a [00:22:00] project to manage relationships with clients and coworkers, to have absolute fires burning on the back end, but to keep a straight face and keep your client calm throughout those fires and then put them out without them ever having to know about it.

It's those types of things that I think separate. Good professional from [00:22:20] a, an exceptional professional. And the, the other thing is that I still notice this today, that employees and consultants in general have a really hard time finishing the job. They are excited to get started. They're excited to do the body, the bulk of the work.

But when it comes to that last 10%, the testing [00:22:40] and iterating. And making sure that everything actually works in all scenarios, and then supporting the client for the next couple of weeks and dealing with their questions and changing requirements. They, they can't seem to do it. They can get it to the 90% mark, and that's great and all, but for the client, it's worthless.

Like if you implement an amazing solution. But then they don't [00:23:00] know how to use it or they don't feel confident or comfortable using it. It's, it's absolutely worthless. And you just spent 90% of the time doing 90% of the project. And, uh, if you can't close, and, and that's the same with everything. It's the same with projects around the house or pet projects and hobby projects.

You know, if you're building a car or working on something like that, like it's all great, but then you [00:23:20] find all these people working on cars and they're still sitting in the garage and they don't work. But it looks beautiful. But. It just is not road ready and it's just you. You see so many of those situations in life that.

Yeah, consulting was a job and it was an income, but I think I took away a lot of soft skills that just improved my life [00:23:40] in general, not just the way I worked, but you know, other relationships and success I've had in other areas of my life. Which 

[00:23:45] Matt: feels like a really good segue to talk a bit about lifestyle design.

And I know it's a topic that you're really passionate about. Clearly you saw the value early in your career to find a path, to find a profession, [00:24:00] to find a passion that would afford you a lot of flexibility, whether it was financial independence, whether it was autonomy of your time and where you worked from.

Uh, I'm curious when you kind of got on the life design train, when you kind of awoke to the reality that you actually had the ability to design a life. For yourself [00:24:20] and that you didn't have to follow the path that so many before you had 

[00:24:22] Guest 1: followed. Yeah, I, I know I keep saying this, but obviously another great question.

A awoke is, is such a great word for it because I was aware of. Early retirement and things like that prior to having my daughter. Uh, but that was [00:24:40] definitely the catalyst. And the funny thing is, is I knew about early retirement. I knew about, you know, saving more than you spend throughout life, not having to wait until you're 60 to cash on a, a 401K or an IRA or whatever else.

And I knew about these things, but I wasn't applying it because I don't think I had enough of a why. That I would [00:25:00] focus on that at this moment. And so what happened is when, uh, my wife got pregnant, Slowly I started thinking about my day and then how that would align with having a child. And it took us about two years to get pregnant.

Um, so it was definitely an intentional part of our lives and something that we [00:25:20] felt compelled to do. And I knew that for me, and this is not the same for everyone, so, um, I don't wanna push my choices on anyone else's way of thinking or their choices, but, um, I knew for me when I was coming. Uh, down from work.

So I was upstairs obviously, and when I was coming down from work, it was usually around five or five 30. I was reading [00:25:40] all these parenting books, um, and watching YouTube videos and all this kind of stuff about, you know, what parenting life was like and what people underestimated or overestimated and all these different things.

And one of the things that struck me is I kept reading the, you know, kids are sleeping a lot and. They take like five naps a day and don't really sleep through the night. And um, and a [00:26:00] lot of times kids, even as they age, go to bed at like six o'clock or seven o'clock. And I wanted my daughter to be on a healthy sleep schedule cause I think healthy sleep leads to a lot of benefits in life.

But what I was realizing is I'm getting off work at five o'clock and I've gotta decompress until maybe five 30 until my head is truly back into [00:26:20] personal life and away from work life. And I'm putting my daughter to bed at six or seven o'clock. That wasn't computing for me. It was like, Whoa, Like I'm gonna introduce a new life to this world and I'm gonna spend 30 minutes to maybe an hour and a half with that new person Monday through Friday.

Like, that doesn't make any sense at all. I have to at least try [00:26:40] to create something different. And I started listening to finally listening to Early Retirement and Financial Independence podcast. And my goal wasn't to retire early. But that was sort of the catchphrase key word where people were thinking about finances differently and trying to make, um, some [00:27:00] unique choices around how they manage their lives and lifestyle inflation.

And so for me, my goal began to be how can I, I, I looked at my life as like a bucket of hours and I said, Well, I need to sleep eight hours a day, and right now I need to. Eight hours a day, maybe eight and a half, nine, depending on what's going [00:27:20] on, hours a day, and that's only gonna leave me with, you know, less than eight hours to do all the things, eat and take care of yourself, and pay the bills, and cut the grass, and buy the groceries, and all the stuff that you have to do throughout the day that still takes away from [00:27:40] downtime.

You know, what would I consider? Just like that really valuable time that you can spend without thinking about other things. And I realized that if I was gonna cut from somewhere, there were only a few places I could cut, and it was either sleep or work were my biggest bucket of hours to cut from.

Obviously I'm not gonna cut from sleep, so I said, Okay, how could I potentially claw back some hours [00:28:00] of work? And so I said, Okay, well what if I get a part-time job and I just start working a part-time job from eight to 12 and I'm not gonna make nearly as much money, but I'm gonna be able to spend a lot of time with my daughter.

And while that may be, you know, sacrificing one thing for another, I don't think I'll regret sacrificing [00:28:20] money, uh, for spending more time with my daughter. And so I jumped on that and I said, You know what? If it doesn't work and I get a part-time job and it sucks and we can't pay the bills, Then, you know what, I'll just go back to being a full-time consultant just like everyone else.

But if it does work, then we might be stumbling onto something incredible and it worked far better than [00:28:40] expected. Um, so I'm happy to talk about that. But yeah, I, I know I've been on a bit of a tangent there, so, Yeah, my, my, I guess long story short, my daughter is definitely what inspired me to start thinking differently about the amount of time that I spend working versus, uh, you know, some of that lifestyle design and getting more creative about my career.

[00:28:57] Matt: You can't see my face right now, but I'm smiling ear to [00:29:00] ear. Not a rant and not a ramble at all. Bradley, like, uh, as somebody whose own podcast starts with the line constraints drive innovation. I love the mindset of understanding and being really clear with yourself that there are only so many hours in the day and there's only so much energy that you can expend to the activities that occur throughout your day.

And [00:29:20] you clearly prioritized certain activities. You prioritized family, you prioritized self care and sleep, and then you also prioritized to a lesser degree. The income that you would need to be able to keep all that together. And I talk to people all the time who are in corporate roles and they're making great salaries, but their [00:29:40] stress level is through the roof.

They very much have golden handcuffs, as you referenced, but in a very different way. They've built a lifestyle for themselves where they need that salary to sustain. The, the lifestyle that they've created to keep the, those things going. And they find themselves in a vicious loop of they're not really happy with their life.

So as a [00:30:00] consequence, they spend or they escape through trips and buying stuff and some vices that they may have. And the loop continues so that you need more money to fund those activities and to fund that level of escapism, which requires them to work more hours. And then the loop continues. And continues and continues.

So for somebody, [00:30:20] Send said to themselves, I'm gonna opt out of this vicious circle, this burnout curve, this hustle culture that we call ourselves. I am curious for you, from you, in terms of some of the more details around it, because it's such a departure from how most people look at. The challenge that you're talking about, most people would [00:30:40] cut sleep, Most people would cut back on the time they spend with their families.

They would prioritize financial security over the time that they're spending with their daughter. And I'm just curious for you, as you went through the arithmetic of that, and you talked about it with your spouse and you leaned upon your mentors and your, your colleagues and your friends, was that something.[00:31:00] 

Came to you first? Was it trial and error? Was it a path of, um, figuring out what was the best fit? Um, I'm just curious about how you landed at that, at that ultimate 

[00:31:11] Guest 1: design. Yeah, it's, it's interesting. I think there's a few different things. You know, like when I look back at it, it feels like a smooth process, but [00:31:20] obviously there was a lot of stress and anxiety involved.

I was very fortunate that. Wife was fully on board, right? Like when I went to her and I said like, Hey, I've got this idea. And we, we always had ideas. Both of us, we were always like, thinking creatively, We just couldn't, couldn't sit still. It was almost like a, a way to relieve anxiety was just thinking about, you know, creative [00:31:40] ways to live life.

And, uh, so I went to my wife and I said, Yeah, we've got our daughter on the way and we've lived a, a reasonably frugal life, you know, not deprivation, but reasonably frugal and. What if, you know, we don't need all this money right now. We're saving to be on track to retire, you know, by 40. What, What if I work [00:32:00] part-time and and work doesn't feel quite as much like work anymore?

And yeah, we're not gonna be on track to retire at 40. It might be 65, but what if life doesn't feel like we're dedicated to our jobs and we can enjoy a part-time? You know, role at a company and enjoy life at the same time. And then maybe we won't [00:32:20] be so focused on early retirement because it won't ever feel like we're truly living a life to work and work and work.

And she was on board with that and she said, You know, let's try it. Like I mentioned before, it was what is the worst case scenario? And I think every decision in life should be an evaluation of the benefits and risks. [00:32:40] And to me, the risk was. We make a mistake, we end up in a, a role that doesn't make sense.

We end up, we, we had money put away, right? It's not like we were living paycheck to paycheck and then cut our income in half. We, we had money saved and it was, you know what? We might have to dig into those savings a little bit to support a life where we don't work [00:33:00] full-time. But what if we don't? Like what if we don't have to dig into savings?

What if it all just works out okay in all these black swan events and fears that we. Never come to fruition. And it's just okay. Like, wow, what an opportunity to miss just by thinking from a fear, a fear mindset. So I think that's what helped. But I think another [00:33:20] practice I went through, I went to a, uh, a finance camp, I guess you could call it, called Camp Fi.

So Camp Fi, and it's a, it's a small gathering about 50 people, and it's a weekend or treat and you just talk about financial independence. And something I heard somebody talk about there was they said, Take time. Don't try to do it right [00:33:40] now, but take time. Take a week and try to write down the three things.

If you could only do three things every day for the rest of your life, what would it be? And you don't need money anymore and you don't have to worry about your health anymore, and you can only do three things each day for the rest of your life. What would those three things be? And I stepped back and I went.

Okay. It took a [00:34:00] while and I talked to my wife and, and what I realized was, for me, first and foremost, it was gonna be spending time with the people I cared most about. So obviously my wife and daughter, but also, you know, friends and family. And it was like if I just had more time to spend with those people, I don't think I'm ever going to.[00:34:20] 

Regret that choice as one of my three things to do for the rest of my life. Okay, great. The other thing is I knew I enjoyed getting outdoors. I want to be able to get outside, go for a hike, go for a swim, go fishing, do those things. If I can just get outside and be in a place with reasonable weather so I can get outside year round.

That'd be [00:34:40] wonderful. I'd love to be able to do that. And then the third thing, and this is one that I struggled with and I, I took it off the list and I put it back on the list, but the third thing ended up I needed to do something that felt productive. And I think society calls that work, but it's not, it doesn't have to be.

Work as we know it. Like right now, we [00:35:00] sort of operate a hobby farm and is it generating revenue? Is it generating a profit? Absolutely not. Like, not even close, but I can tell you when I get off work at 12 and I go outside and I spend some time gardening and with animals and upkeep and thinking about cool ideas on new ways to [00:35:20] get water to places that it wasn't, or to use solar to generate electricity in places that it wasn't.

That excites me and it feels productive. And people call that work. They see somebody outside in the heat doing something and they call that work. But for me, it's not work. I, I enjoy those things cuz it adds to those values. I get to spend time with my family, I get to get [00:35:40] outside and I get to feel productive.

And those were my three values and what I realized, Oh my God. These values don't require a ton of money. And when most people step back and they have that list of three things, that they can only do these three things for the rest of their life, they don't typically say. If I can only do three things, number one, it's gonna be drive a Lamborghini.[00:36:00] 

Number two, it's gonna be eat at a premier steakhouse every single night. And number three, it's gonna be sit in a corner office and have people look up to me. Typically, those three things do not make the list, but those are the three things that everybody seems to be trying to achieve. And [00:36:20] I'm not convinced that they even know why they're trying to reach those three things because it's not part of what they actually value in life.

And if it is, that's amazing and you should go for it. But if it's not actually what you value, when you sit down and think about it, then think I, I would just say, think creatively and think strategically about how you can design a [00:36:40] life that actually leads you to the things that you value instead of the things that society values for you.

And you might find yourself in a totally d. I think state of mind. 

[00:36:49] Matt: Well, and it starts with a willingness to your point, to challenge what was likely some programming that occurred throughout the early stages of your life. And I can speak from personal [00:37:00] experience in the family that I grew up in. That career was tied very closely to your self worth.

The second question after how are you, is what do you do for a living? Or everything was put in the context of professional success. It was how our family determines social currency and there's lots of, you know, [00:37:20] the risk of diving into childhood traumas. There's lots of stuff around that, but the reality is my story is not unique to me.

There are lots of situations where people have expectations from their family or their friends or their community. To pursue a certain path, whether it is to choose a certain university or educational institution, whether it's to [00:37:40] a career path, whether it's to get married, have children. There's all these societal pressures on all of us, and it takes a lot of courage and a lot of creativity to be able to say, Hold on a.

I want to do, I wanna take a minute just to look at what my options are and make an informed decision before I [00:38:00] decide to sign up for 20 to 25 years of this path. Because as I mentioned earlier, Brad, like there's so many people that I know that are finding themselves stuck. They've made the decision. At an Earlys age, they've pursued a certain path and they find themselves just stuck, not in a position where they can make the types of decisions that [00:38:20] you're talking about without requiring significant amounts of overhaul to their life design.

And that has corresponding impacts on people around them, including their family, including their work, including the places they live and the cars that they drive, and things that for them, to your point, might carry more. Than some of the things that, that you've talked about. [00:38:40] And so I, I, I have empathy for the people in those situations.

And I also, from my own personal experience, have been through the journey of having built that life, taking a moment and then blowing it up halfway through and saying, I gotta start over. This is not working for me. I'm actually causing more damage to myself and the people around me than any of the benefits that I'm accruing from this [00:39:00] chosen path.

A a and Brad, I guess, you know, as we bring this conversation to a close, One thing I wanna dig into, which I think is really inspiring about your story. I mean, yes, we can talk about retired at 31. We can talk about lifestyle design. We can talk about the fact that you chose the path less traveled. But what really [00:39:20] stuck out for me in reading your bio before this conversation was in spite of having all that.

In spite of doing things on your own terms and seemingly adding, figured out the answer to a question that a lot of people are asking, you didn't just put your feet. And kick back and enjoy the fruits of your labor. [00:39:40] You didn't apply judgment to the people around you. You've instead decided to share with a degree of generosity and care some of the lessons that you've learned, and whether it's providing free resources to people who have questions or taking time out of your schedule to counsel and, and provide advice to [00:40:00] people.

I'm curious for you. What was the impetus for that? What was the impetus of continuing to invest, but now not only in your life, but in the lives of people around you so people can enjoy some of the things 

[00:40:13] Guest 1: that you're talking about? Yeah, so those are, those are all really good points. And I think too, before I answer that, that, you know, [00:40:20] I, I am also empathetic towards, you know, people who are deep into life and, and where they're at.

And I think you, you do have to be hyper aware. The responsibility that you've taken on for your children, for your spouse? A lot of times I struggled with, you know, making sure my wife was comfortable with my choices because she married one person and that [00:40:40] person was shifting their goals, um, and what I wanted my life to look like.

So I had to make sure that she was also on board with that shifting of goals. Cuz that's not fair to her for, you know, the other side of the, the equation to just all of a sudden. Want different things in life. Um, so there are things to consider and there's obviously there's a lot more than [00:41:00] that. But I, I do think if you can make those slow gradual changes and obviously be thoughtful about the people around you, don't make erratic choices that could, you know, impact others.

There, there, there is a responsibility there. Um, but I would just say don't, don't walk away and think, Well, I can't because I'm d. I would say how, how can I, I'm different, but, but, [00:41:20] but how can I potentially impact the change, even if it starts small? So as for me and what happened sort of in my life being, being 31, and I knew when I was coming up on my financial independence number, like I knew when that number was approaching.

And as I got closer to that number, I started thinking, and my daughter right now is, uh, six [00:41:40] years old and, uh, she starts kindergarten. And so that's the first time she will ever. Out from under mom and dad as far as day-to-day life goes. So she's never been in, you know, a daycare situation or anything like that.

And so as she starts kindergarten, it was sort of this realization where I went, Okay, well I only [00:42:00] work mornings and she's gonna be gone all morning long. And really a lot of the reason that I'm retiring is to spend more time with her. And I feel that I can still do everything, what my goals are and what my values are.

And if you're gonna be at school until three o'clock every day, then I may as well go ahead and work mornings and be done by 12, and [00:42:20] then for the next three hours I can exercise and play video games or watch Netflix or whatever I wanna do. And so I decided, you know what? Maybe what I should do is I was part of these communities.

I talked about that before, and there were these communities of people who were trying to break into Salesforce jobs. The same thing that had led me to. Extreme lifestyle [00:42:40] design, incredible flexibility and a high paying career while working from home or wherever I wanna work from. And I was involved in these communities and forums where people were saying, Hey, I did this, I did that, and I can't get a job.

Is the market saturated? And me knowing they're literally millions of jobs available. Um, no, it's not even close to saturated. There. [00:43:00] There, there's something you're not applying here, There's part of the strategy that you're not applying. What I was finding was that people over and over were just like super focused on their resumes or to prepare for an interview.

They would go study the top 20 interview questions for that job title, and it was some of the most basic. Concepts or [00:43:20] strategies that I'd ever seen. Uh, for people that were trying to break into tech jobs, the we're paying like entry level. Like right now we're seeing like entry level salaries at like $75,000.

Um, two years of experience, you're definitely gonna be making, you know, a hundred thousand dollars plus. And so when I was looking at that, I went, Wow, like there's so much opportunity here [00:43:40] and there's such a lack of education and misinformation. The current job market and how you actually get in front of recruiters and hiring managers and the skills you actually need to be successful on the job.

And I thought, well, I went from being a junior. Salesforce professional to being a senior, uh, at a [00:44:00] consultancy to operating my own, uh, freelance consultancy for six years. I think I'm pretty well equipped to tell people how to navigate different areas of the ecosystem and do it successfully. So what I did is I said, You know what?

If I can continue working my morning schedule, then I'm going to. A platform, um, [00:44:20] which, uh, evolved into what I would now call a program, which is, it reminds me of like a graduate program where we just take people from wherever they are. It doesn't matter. I don't care if you're a bartender or a janitor or if you're a car salesman or an executive at some company and you just don't wanna do that anymore.

We actually had somebody who opted out of high [00:44:40] school their 10th grade year, and we got them an entry level tech job. So it's. You could be anyone. And what we do is we take you and we give you the skills that you need, both soft skills and technical skills, and an understanding of these jobs and the entire ecosystem and where you fit in.

And we help you break into these entry level [00:45:00] roles. And I've gotta tell you, I really enjoyed consulting. I enjoyed taking businesses and helping them become more efficient and productive and streamline their processes. It is a totally different feeling when you take someone and you get an email. It says, Hey Brad, thank you so much for what you're doing.

Uh, I don't have to worry about where the [00:45:20] money's gonna come from to buy my kids Christmas presents this year. And that is very different than helping a business get 10% ROI on an investment. It's life changing for a family and potentially generations of families. Um, so I leaned into that a hundred percent as soon as I sort of got that high from that level of impact on a, on a real [00:45:40] person.

And that's what I've sort of fully dedicated to now as far as what I do in my eight to 12, I'll call it, um, is just, you know, conversations like this. Um, you know, running things like our, our Facebook group, our YouTube channel, TikTok channels, all this other stuff. I enjoy getting out there and evangelizing tech careers and helping people [00:46:00] stumble across things that they potentially never would've heard of.

And so if you, if you're interested in that topic and that conversation, we have a ton of free resources. Obviously, we're a business that needs zero revenue to operate. As long as we can just cover our baseline costs, we're good to go. Um, so we have a ton of free stuff and we focus a lot on free content.

And so if you wanna jump into that, just [00:46:20] head over to talent stacker.com/free, and you can get all of our free resources right there in one spot. 

[00:46:27] Matt: I'm gonna link all those details, Brad, in the show notes to this podcast. For those that are interested in checking it out, I would highly recommend it if it's for yourself or somebody else in your network.

Or if you have perhaps people in your [00:46:40] families coming out of school looking for a different path, asking themselves what's available. I can't evangelize this enough. It is an opportunity for you to take a step back and look at what is possible. And Brad, just thank you so much for providing your story, sharing it with us, giving us a different perspective on a path that has [00:47:00] been clearly really enriching for you and your family.

And I just wanna wish you a ton of success going forward, and I'm looking forward to staying in touch. 

[00:47:07] Guest 1: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on and you are an incredible conversationist and I just appreciate you, you know, giving me a platform to, you know, share some of these thoughts and insights.

So yeah, thank you very [00:47:20] much.

[00:47:29] Matt: NTO HR is a digital transformation consultancy working at the intersection of strategy, technology, and people operat. We partner with organizations, private equity and venture [00:47:40] capital firms to accelerate value creation and identify the organization's highest leverage initiatives. And this can take place in many forms from strategic planning and alignment to technology, procurement, implementation, and integration along with organizational design, process reengineering and change management.

[00:48:00] With our proven track record of working with complex high growth organizations, we provide a lens that goes beyond the balance sheet, increasing enterprise readiness, resilience, and value. For more information, check us out@bentohr.com.[00:48:20]