How Adaptation Changes the World’s Relationship with Technology - Thomas Douglas

In today’s episode, I chat with Thomas Douglas, the Springfield, Missouri-based Chief Executive Officer of JMARK, an innovative IT solutions provider to various companies and industries. Thomas is an award-winning business leader and an innovator, and his creations have, in part,  led to JMARK’s breakthrough industry growth.

His story at JMark is unique - he graduated from employee to CEO - an interesting dance for any leader to walk. Lessons of humility he no doubt learned serving in the US Navy, visiting 18 countries along the way.

In our discussion, Thomas shared his algorithm of success, revealed first in his latest book "Adapt or Die," - a title that dives into his lessons learned during years of executive leadership. 

I had a fun time connecting with Thomas and hope you enjoy our conversation. 

Thomas Douglas

Thomas H. Douglas is the Chief Executive Officer of JMARK, an award-winning innovative IT solutions provider for organizations of all sizes. Thomas has led his company to 9 consecutive appearances on the Inc. 5000, something only 1% of CEOs who make the list ever achieve. He became a part of JMARK designing, building, and maintaining its functional aspects as an entry-level engineer before purchasing the company in 2001.

As JMARK's CEO, he formulated processes that provided repeatable outcomes and a predictable revenue stream that placed JMARK on a growth trajectory that up to this day, is revolutionizing the region's engagement with technology. JMARK has been providing I.T. support services in Missouri, Oklahoma, and Arkansas for 30 Years; catering to various industries such as banking, healthcare, hospitality, manufacturing, transportation, accounting, legal, and oil, and gas.

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Matt Burns

Matt Burns is an award-winning executive, social entrepreneur and speaker. He believes in the power of community, simplicity & technology.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Guest 1: And that's a lot of fun. Once you get it going, you have to lead always, but the culture will perpetuate itself because it's, it's ingrained that no, no, no, don't, don't do that unless it's helping someone. Don't do that. If it's hurting or slowing somebody down. And that mindset is, is a [00:00:20] true pleasure and a gift to be a part of.

Constraints 

[00:00:35] Matt: drive innovation. Hey everyone. It's Matt here for another episode [00:00:40] of Thinking Inside the Box, a show where we discuss complex issues related to work and culture. If you're interested in checking out our other content, you can find us@bentohr.com and wherever you find your favorite podcast.

By searching, thinking inside the box, and if you enjoy the work we're doing here, consider leaving us a five star. [00:01:00] A comment and subscribing. It ensures you get updated whenever we release new content and really helps amplify our message. In today's episode, I chat with Thomas Douglas, the Springfield, Missouri based Chief Executive Officer of J Mark, an innovative IT solutions provider for various companies and industries [00:01:20] in the United States.

Thomas is an award-winning business leader and innovator, and his creations have in part led to J Mark's breakthrough industry. Which is a unique story as Thomas graduated from employee one day to ceo The next, an interesting dance for any leader to walk, and with lessons of humility [00:01:40] he no doubt learned along the way, serving in the US Navy where he visited 18 countries.

In our discussion, Thomas shared his algorithm of success revealed his latest book, adapt or Die, and dived into lessons he learned during years of executive leader. We closed our conversation with a [00:02:00] discussion on creating safe, inclusive workplaces and why they're the key to organizational success. I had a fun time meeting with Thomas and help you enjoy our conversation.

And now I bring you 

[00:02:11] Guest 1: Thomas Douglas. Hello, Thomas. How you doing today? Oh, it's awesome. It's been such a great day. Thanks for giving us a chance to, to join you today. Oh, I'm looking 

[00:02:19] Matt: [00:02:20] forward to the conversation too. Uh, and before we get into some of the topics we're gonna get into, I'd love to hear more about you, your background, your experiences, maybe what brought you 

[00:02:27] Guest 1: to today.

Well, thanks. Uh, you know, it's been a fun journey. Uh, had the opportunity to serve in the, in the military, in the Navy for four years and. That set me up for kind of a [00:02:40] lifetime of learning the experiences for things that I wouldn't trade for the world, and it kind of introduced me to it and leadership and fundamentals around what it means to do things well, and just as importantly, The things not to do as a leader, as I experienced, good and bad, and kind of formed a view [00:03:00] of what that that really means.

Uh, then as I transitioned from the military into the private sector, which, you know, kind of surprisingly, I was getting ready to reenlist and, and one of my Navy chiefs came to me and said, you know, I really think you should get out because I believe that you could serve the country in a greater [00:03:20] capacity outside the military than you can inside the military cuz you've got the potential to create a lot of jobs and to make a big impact.

And I just thought he was crazy, but, uh, kind of followed his advice and, you know, jumped into it head first and became a level one engineer, uh, at our company. J. And, and worked my way through [00:03:40] that, kinda learning the, the pieces, thought I was hot stuff and quickly realized that I didn't know anything about the business world.

Uh, and, but fortunately was surrounded by a Lynch, uh, a lot of incredible people and mentors to help me work in it. And it was within a fairly short period of time that I became one of the, the [00:04:00] top producer. In the organization. And, uh, long story short, um, I worked my way into management roles and leadership roles, and then eventually ended up, uh, acquiring the company from the, the owner.

And, uh, we had to downsize it because of financial troubles, uh, which is what kind of [00:04:20] facilitated it. We downsized it to just six people and then have grown hit the 5,009 times in a row. And. Been fortunate. We have, uh, over 120 people in the company now, so it's pretty exciting. 

[00:04:31] Matt: And what an incredible story from serving in the armed forces.

And then to your point, going to the business 

[00:04:36] Guest 1: world. I'm curious, you mentioned transition. [00:04:40] What were those first few days like? What 

[00:04:41] Matt: was it like sitting at that desk and working in that, that corporate job after I think a 

[00:04:45] Guest 1: four year serving the country, it was, it was frustrating at first. Uh, because of, you know, we were pretty disciplined.

We, we had really clear expectations and objectives and, you know, our, our [00:05:00] leadership allowed us to have fun for sure. But, but there was a serious job to do. And, uh, and then when I first came into the, You know, kinda the public workforce, that that discipline wasn't the same. They got things done and they treated people well, but it was, it was hard for me to [00:05:20] transition and, and I think probably in a positive way, my work ethic just kind of plowed new fields and, and made realizations of what was possible and, and what people could get done.

And that, that kind of set a new tone that, that probably put us on. A pathway to, [00:05:40] uh, a better and more efficient company. Well, 

[00:05:42] Matt: and clearly you've had a lot of recent 

[00:05:43] Guest 1: success, and as you mentioned, it 

[00:05:45] Matt: started out a little bit bumpy. I mean, the transition from you as an employee into taking more of a leadership role in the organization coincided with the time that was not at the company's pinnacle in terms of financial success.

Yeah, absolutely. I can also appreciate that within the [00:06:00] organization, working in that environment is, it's hard. Like it's hard to come to work, it's hard to see, you know, you're having success and I'm curious what it was like during that time and, and maybe more broadly, what it was like working alongside people as you transitioned from an employee to now taking on more of an active leadership for the 

[00:06:16] Guest 1: organization.

Well, um, yeah, great question. It, [00:06:20] it was, it was certainly challenging at time. Uh, at times it was, it was actually. Frustrating. I mean, it was a job that that required, you know, 10, 12 hour days. Uh, cuz we were trying to keep the wheels on the bus, you know, it was falling apart in some ways. And, and, you know, the former owner, fantastic guy, had made some [00:06:40] decisions that just put the, put the company in a little bit of a tough spot and he, he was having other, uh, challenges in his life and so it was a good time for him to shift and.

Uh, but at the same time, there was just a tremendous amount of energy that needed to go into the business to get it square, to, to help us to figure out what, what our product really [00:07:00] was, what we were doing, where we created value, how we were, you know, were we making money? Were we losing money? And, and where and why?

And, and it, it took a long time to just. Kind of get our head wrapped around that. Um, and then, you know, it, it was definitely a unique challenge when I had to, to transition from being a subordinate to all of a [00:07:20] sudden I was a manager and then I was a senior leader, and then I was the owner and. You know, the dynamics of working with people and, and them accepting that in a positive way, that it took a lot of work and a lot of one-on-one conversations to make sure it was done well.

And I would say we, we screwed it up a little bit along the way, [00:07:40] but, but it worked out in the end. It's not an easy 

[00:07:43] Matt: discussion to have, and it's always sensitive when the organization's not having this success, people would've liked, and it's really hard as a prideful professional to not take those things personally.

And when there's a, a change, there's [00:08:00] a lot of mixed feelings in that. And as somebody who's supported a lot of mergers and acquisitions between, um, various entities, there's always a degree of emotional charge whenever there's activities, even though the decisions are often made with financials in mind.

And I'm glad to hear that you guys are able to go through that period of time and come out stronger for it. What [00:08:20] do you think you took from that, that period that you're able to apply either as a leader, as an organization, as you move forward 

[00:08:25] Guest 1: to have. Yeah, great question. I would say one of our big takeaways was, was building safety in the business, you know, when it comes to cash flow, uh, developing a strategy for a minimum cash balance.

You know, one of the things that we learned [00:08:40] and struggled through, uh, and have more than once since then is, is winter is coming. You know, I mean, it's, it's kind of a funny saying, but, but the truth is all businesses are gonna have ups and downs. You're gonna have client turnover, you're gonna. Your clients are gonna get AC acquired and, and you're gonna have these, these, uh, situations where you're gonna need to lean on [00:09:00] cash.

And if you have no cash in the bank or, or you're running on such thin margins that have put your business at risk, one of those bumps in the road, it can easily and quickly be at the end of the business. And so, you know, we, we learned to form an opinion that we owe it to our employees and to our clients to make sure that we build safety.

In the business. So, you know, what does it mean [00:09:20] to have the, have the right financial model so that at the end of the day we're putting some, some cash in the bank so that things like when Covid hit, you know, I was able to stand in front of the company and say, don't worry, no one's losing their job. We have been preparing for this.

This is why we run, uh, an intentional, uh, financial model. And this is why we [00:09:40] save money aside. And we're not gonna shift benefits. We're not gonna cut anybody's pay. We're not gonna do any of those things. We're gonna buckle down and we're gonna, we're gonna lead through this. And the, the impact on the culture and the attitude in our company was absolutely overwhelming as a result of that because it was just a sense of relief when everybody else was not sure if they were gonna keep [00:10:00] their job or not.

And so it was those lessons during those tough times. And then, and then the actions that we took as a result that, that really. Helped us to, to have the right attitudes about how to move forward 

[00:10:11] Matt: well, and credit to you and your leadership team for not succumbing to temptation to think more short term. A lot of organizations, including the [00:10:20] vast majority of publicly traded ones, are incentivized financially to view things in three month increments.

So yeah, the idea of stashing away cash for a rainy day or thinking about the future or insulating your employees from future economic risk. Is a very unique way of looking at business. I'm curious for you where that mindset comes from. Cause that's not the traditional mindset [00:10:40] of most CEOs that I talk with.

[00:10:41] Guest 1: Well, I'm fortunate to be surrounded by a lot of really smart people, so I was, I was fortunate to be able to meet incredible folks early in my leadership or tenure at j Mark and, and a few of those encouraged me to put a board of directors together. Uh, and so I [00:11:00] found people that were industry wizards and ninjas that that knew the game, some financial leaders and sales leaders, and paid them to be on our board.

Uh, specifically cuz I, I've never been a ceo, I've never run, uh, a company of, of, you know, 50 employees, 75 employees, let alone [00:11:20] well over a hundred employees and. Uh, I wanted, I wanted smart people around me, and they helped me to form this, this kind of a longer term view that, that the business needs to be valuable regardless of what's going on in the world.

And I owe it to my family and to our employees, our team, to make sure that, that if something happens to [00:11:40] me, that it's not the end of the business. That it's sustainable and it's, and it's valuable. And can continue on in, in, in the appropriate capacity. And so it was, it was those hard times. It was the leadership of, of good folks around me and, and then heating that advice and then realizing, you know, I think it was Simon Sinek who was one of the [00:12:00] guys who pointed out that if, if more, you know, publicly traded companies played the long game instead of the short game, that, that the world would be a lot better place.

And I absolutely believe that that's, that's true. And that. Many more companies need to focus on that. Instead of a, um, putting a bunch of money in the bank every month or every quarter, or even [00:12:20] annually, it's, it's a much more mature and successful approach to take a three and five year approach to how you're gonna lead the business to ensure that you're set to catapult yourself or to deal with the challenges.

It just, 

[00:12:32] Matt: it's a different mindset and when you look at and shift the timeframe to looking more medium to long term, it doesn't preclude you from looking at [00:12:40] the short term impacts. It just requires a portion of your attention to look longer term. And you know, we could get into a long conversation about finance theory and economic theory and that whole piece and, and I'm curious though about your thoughts of the last two and a half years, because you're in a unique position.

You're an individual who. Took over a role and supported an organization and [00:13:00] was a leader in a technology organization during what was probably the period of time in our existence where enterprise technology, consumer technology advanced most quickly. The amount of acceleration to e-commerce, the acceleration to the cloud, um, organizations in a lot of cases, having to assure [00:13:20] business continuity by working either hybrid or.

All together, a lot of technology being invested in broader, uh, enterprise. I'm just curious on your broader thoughts. What have you seen from your vantage point on the general state of, of technology as it is? 

[00:13:34] Guest 1: I, I would answer that in the short by saying that, that throughout [00:13:40] kind of the first probably six or eight months of covid, we went through about two years of digital transformation.

Uh, I mean maybe, maybe four. It just absolutely accelerated. To your point, businesses had to adopt a, a hybrid work environment, a work from home work environment. That meant implementing new technologies, focusing on [00:14:00] security in a different ways, having a, a different mindset when it comes to trusting their employees and, and not just focusing on, you know, butts and seats inside the office and what people are gonna traditionally do every day.

It's, it's, no, we, we've gotta change the way that we think because we still have to produce the work and get the outcomes, but [00:14:20] we, we have to do it using new technologies with a different attitude, with our, with our team, uh, separated. And, and oh by the way, we still have to maintain some sort of a, a positive culture along with it.

And so the investments, you know, we had a, during when Covid first hit and they, and they sent everybody home. We had a [00:14:40] a 30 to 40% increase in the inbound request to our organization to help organizations make that shift. It, it beat us up pretty bad, but we navigated through it and we shifted, you know, dozens and dozens of companies to this hybrid work environment and the companies that had kind of heated our, our [00:15:00] strategy to facilitate an environment that created the possibility of a hybrid work.

It was a very fast transition. The organizations that, that were a little bit more closed off to that mindset specifically. Banks had a lot harder time shifting to this, but once they got there, it was like, this is opening up [00:15:20] a whole new way for us to think about talent, for us to think about culture, for us to think about, you know, recruiting outside of our, our, you know, traditional geography.

And so it's been awesome to. And, and, and we kinda share oftentimes that, you know, once things shift, they don't unshift when it comes to stuff like this. And so it's, [00:15:40] it has shifted the way that people view work forever, and I think in a very positive way. So you'd argue that the 

[00:15:45] Matt: changes have been 

[00:15:46] Guest 1: people oriented, well, people in technology and attitude, uh, leadership, all of the above.

I mean, the, the technology existed. I mean, could you imagine if we would've had the pandemic, you know, 15 years ago? We didn't have the bandwidth [00:16:00] infrastructure in place that we have today. I mean, you just think about that the technology facilitated the shift in people and that's, that's awesome. That's, that's fantastic because done well, it, it creates a better of life for, for everyone.

And that's why we work. It's, it's not the other way.[00:16:20] 

[00:16:22] Matt: Hey everyone, it's Matt here. I hope you're enjoying today's discussion. And before we continue, I want to make you aware of my latest creative project this week at Work, presented in partnership with my good friend Chris Rainey of HR Leaders. Each Friday will live stream on LinkedIn at 7:00 AM [00:16:40] Pacific Standard.

That's 10:00 AM Eastern Standard Time and 3:00 PM GMT for our European viewers. And together bringing the latest trends, news on topics emanating from organizations, everything from culture to technology, and the future of work. Joining is easy. Just follow me on LinkedIn. Click the [00:17:00] bell at the top right hand side of my profile and you'll get notified when we go live each.

And whether you do experience the content live or later, if you've been following me for a while, you'll no doubt recognize the fun banter Chris and I have developed over the years and whether it's been podcasts or digital events. We're so excited to, again, bring you the topics [00:17:20] affecting today's workplaces and their leaders.

and now back to our discussion. Well, it's an important conversation because organizations like yours, having gone through that shift, are asking questions about culture and about values and about how this new world might. [00:17:40] Change or, or impact those items? I'm curious on your thoughts around people centered organizations and how do you create one at your 

[00:17:48] Guest 1: organization?

Yeah, it's tough. Uh, it's intentional. Um, you know, we, we focus on a few key components. First and foremost is, is getting alignment between [00:18:00] the shareholders of the organization, the. The employees, the, the clients and, and, and the our partners are, are, you know, vendors and, and stakeholders. When we can create that alignment so that it's a win-win, win, then, then it really speeds up the business and so it's, it's a [00:18:20] tough.

Set of conversations and a tough set of strategies to make sure that, that, that alignment is there. But I, I have come to appreciate the fact that it does no good for an organization to be successful at the expense of the team that's making it happen. And, and so it's, it's my belief that [00:18:40] when you align.

The ability to change lives, to improve people, to give 'em a safe place, to give 'em, uh, a great, um, environment where they're celebrated and appreciated for the contributions and the value that they're, that they're bringing to the table. That then ultimately dominoes into success for the customers and success [00:19:00] for the, for the shareholders of the company.

So when you, when you do that well with people first in mind and you're always focused on, well, what are we doing to improve the lives of our team first? And, and that becomes the, the, the north star of the leadership of the organization. Then the rest will work itself [00:19:20] out. You have to understand your financial model, and you have to sell, and you have to do all of those things.

But when you lead from the front with people first and you explain why you're making the decisions that you're making and how that is, Meaningful and important for them. So the, with 'em what's in it for me, looking at it from every person's perspective in the [00:19:40] organization. So from the frontline worker to the accounting office to the salesperson.

Like literally have to sit in their chair for a moment and say, well, what is this person going to think about that? And then why is this decision important to them? And then walk through that conversation and, and, and lead in with that [00:20:00] intentionality. Then, then you develop a culture. Marches towards this, this true north of let's build the best company.

Let's build a better company. Let's change lives. Let's support our peers and, and, and huddle around those that, that need our, our help. And that's a lot of fun. Once you get it going, [00:20:20] you have to lead always. But the culture will perpetuate itself because it's, it's ingrained that no, no, no, don't, don't do that unless it's helping someone.

Don't do that. If it's hurting or slowing somebody down. And that mindset is, is a true pleasure and a gift to be a part of. These are 

[00:20:37] Matt: themes that you come back to a lot in your recent book. [00:20:40] Adapt or Die. And you share a lot of lessons around leadership that we've already explored, but there's one in particular I want to get into.

If you don't mind, and that's something you just touched on, which is this idea of leadership and vision, having a destination, it really hearkens to the idea of. Being an outcome oriented leader. And I'm curious on your [00:21:00] thoughts around what does an outcome oriented leader look like in 

[00:21:03] Guest 1: 2022? Yeah, great question.

Not an easy answer for, for a lot of people and, and me as a part of that, but I'll, I'll tell you why, um, why it compliments what's going on in the world, um, as it relates to, you know, the, [00:21:20] the work from home environment or a hybrid work environment. When you, when you get really clear. About what your products are, about the value you're creating for your customers, the value you're creating for your team.

Um, it, it can mature if you're intentional. It can mature to a very clear set of outcomes [00:21:40] that are important for the organization. So what is, what are the, the top 10 things that the company needs to, to be able to facilit? In the different areas of the business. And if you, if you can clearly articulate those, you can put those on a scoreboard, you can, you can measure those things then and, and measure it from a, an [00:22:00] independent perspective.

So meaning that, that it's quantifiable, measurables, not, not emotion or, or attitudinal. When they're quantifiable, then, then people can march towards that and they know that they're successful If they achieve those, those objectives, and if we focus as an organization on those outcomes [00:22:20] rather than the pathway to get there, then, then it, it creates an environment where we don't have to manage people.

We, we get to lead people and empower people and they get the work done. Certainly we have core values and we have guardrails in terms. How we act and how we treat people. And you know, like [00:22:40] one of our biggest core values is honesty. And so, I mean, you certainly have to put guardrails in, but when it comes to the pathway to get the outcomes, it's the outcome that matters.

And the pathway, you know, if you get a creative team, man, give them some runway. If you know ours, uh, a larger part of our organization is, is [00:23:00] engineers. And you know, while we have some best practices and how. Structure and design infrastructures and networks and things like that. And, and we, and we need to, to stay consistent with those so that we can scale properly.

We, we don't care about the pathway that our engineers take to get a, a good outcome. And when people know [00:23:20] that we trust them and, and they have autonomy, then they feel empowered to be the professional that they are, and they're willing to put more energy into it. And so, you know, at the end of the day, it comes back to people and empowerment and trust.

Love it. 

[00:23:34] Matt: Well, and it touches on a lot of basic principles around human psychology, and we have now [00:23:40] transitioned to a. An economy that is knowledge based, which means it's really hard for us as leaders, as organizations, as third parties to observe the incremental difference between somebody's acceptable effort and their best effort.

Yeah, and don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about working people to the point of exhaustion here, [00:24:00] but I'm talking about we have a problem in every organization of of significant size of. Presenteeism. People who are at work, people who are not fully at work but are present, like they're there, but they're not really fully contributing, or they may not be contributing as effectively as they could, and there could be hosts of reasons [00:24:20] why that's occurring, both intrinsic and extrinsic to them.

And as organizations move forward, this idea around creating a culture that you've talked about is so important if for no other reason than to create an environment where people feel okay to make mistakes. To learn to ask questions [00:24:40] as things move and shift so quickly. There is a tendency for things to unfortunately not go to plan, and that's part of a growing successful enterprise, but is creating trust within that enterprise that if things don't go to plan the first time around, that there is an a, a broader base of evidence to say, this is a hiccup, this isn't a [00:25:00] trend.

And you know, I, I think about the discussion that we had offline about the algorithm of. Yeah. You know, in your words there are eight key ingredients to having success, and I'd just love maybe to spend some time talking about what that looks like. What are those eight ingredients, and expand on them as as much as you want individually.

Okay. 

[00:25:18] Guest 1: Well, uh, I'll circle [00:25:20] back before we dive into that, just really quickly to the point that you made that I think was, was critical. Um, and, and that is, you know, this, this idea of. Being present but not being present or absenteeism or, or however you wanna describe it. And, and the, the one thing that I would, I would throw on the table for, for consideration for business leaders is [00:25:40] what we don't want to do as business leaders, team leaders.

Is to have to manage the heck outta people. So if you can create a culture within your team of peer accountability where peers are, are helping to encourage other peers to perform at their best so that the manager [00:26:00] doesn't have to get involved. So when you know the outcomes that are important, you can lean on the team and say, team, it's your job to create accountability to make sure you've got peers next to you that are producing and creating value.

Cuz our goal is to have a small and agile team. And if we're not efficient in how we operate, we're gonna blow up our costs and that's gonna hurt your career opportunities, [00:26:20] uh, because we're gonna have to spend more money on more people to get the same amount of work. So if, as, as a team, if you can come together and drive efficiencies, it allows us to raise the pay of individuals and it allows us to be more efficient and focus on outcomes and careers and, and more fun rather than having to focus on management, which nobody [00:26:40] likes.

And so I think it's, I think it's a critical part of team culture and in, in camaraderie to, to get that, to get that right and be successful. So, um, Shifting into the algorithm, I, I would, you know, the, the, a components are leadership, uh, which is kind of the overarching idea of, of [00:27:00] getting that right, leading with empathy, uh, leading with intentionality.

Uh, product is the next area. So getting product right. So a product, even if it's a service, should have a, a start and a stop. So defining what that product is. Exactly what is included on it so that you can make a promise around your product. [00:27:20] But what, what I like to, to share as it relates to, to product management overall is that your product really is a promise that you're making to whoever is, is buying the product itself, and in your promise is your integrity.

And your integrity is your reputation. And so if you, if [00:27:40] you can't make those promises and keep them, uh, then your integrity and your reputation comes into question. And we all know how quickly it is for that to go south online in today's world. So getting product right so that you can make very specific promises around it is, is absolutely critical.

And so once you know, Product and, and [00:28:00] understand it. Then you have to also understand who your target market is, um, and how many of those that you need to sell over what period of time, which rolls into the strategy. So understanding your target customer profile, why they buy, what their pain points are, pleasure points are in order to buy the product that you're producing, which folds directly into a strategy, which is [00:28:20] the next major bullet.

How many do you need to sell over what period of time? That, that facilitate the outcomes that you want for the business long term, not the short term game like we were talking about. So certainly you're, you're gonna want some quarterly measuring points and annual measuring points and goals around that.

But, but if you, if you want to be able to exit a [00:28:40] business in three years and walk away with X dollars, then, then that tells you exactly how many. Product items, how many of your products you need to sell at what margins over what period of time. Um, and that then feeds into the next point, which is your growth engine, your sales and marketing.

So once you understand your strategy, then it folds into, [00:29:00] well, if I've got to sell this many widgets, or this, you know, this many hours, or this much of my services over this period of time, that informs the investment and the sophistication that you need to build into your sales and marketing engine. If you, as an example, want to have a hundred percent growth year over year for three or four years, you don't [00:29:20] wanna bet on a rookie sales person and, and not do any marketing at all.

You, you need to have a very specific strategy. So knowing where you want to go informs the, the strategy for the growth engine. And, and then from the growth engine, we walk into the financial model. So the, the model itself is the, the healthy structure. That allows [00:29:40] you to invest properly in sales and marketing and product delivery, in the products that the cost of goods themselves, and then have the appropriate amount of money to handle the, the general administration components, the accounting pieces, the internet services, maybe a physical building or computer infrastructure, whatever it may be into the business, so that you get the EBITDA or [00:30:00] the financial outcomes that you want in the business that create that long term stability, uh, safety in the business as we describe.

That then helps you to prepare properly for the next step, which is people, um, the, the heart of any business and getting people right and having those critical conversations is, is a big part [00:30:20] of, of how businesses are successful. And so when you understand the financial model, you know how much you can invest in people.

And how, how you wanna lead people, how you wanna treat people, and how to problem solve with people so that you get the best out of, out of each person and help raise 'em up and, and create a, a safe environment for 'em [00:30:40] to, to, um, make the mistakes like you were talking about. But, but really you want 'em to blossom.

You want 'em to turn into the next version of themselves as a part of your leadership and contributions to who they are. Um, and then from there, we progress into operations. Where we know that most businesses fail is not in individual [00:31:00] teams. It is in the handoff of a work product from team one to team two.

So it could be from marketing to sales, it could be from sales to product delivery. It could be product delivery to accounting. It's those handoffs that most businesses get wrong, and it, it's the job of the operations to make sure that we understand. The, the [00:31:20] handoff processes and what, what is considered good work product, successful work product in those environments.

And then finally, we, we close it off with processes. Uh, so processes is, is the end. So we start with product leadership first, but then we dive right into product, which is our promises and it's our processes and, and the attention to [00:31:40] detail around documentation and then training and best practices. That keep our promises.

Um, and so by, by being good at processes and make sure that we keep the promises that we've made to our clients in the very beginning, and that's the algorithm, that's how it all comes together. So leadership, product strategy, growth. Model people, operations and process. 

[00:31:59] Matt: [00:32:00] It's a comprehensive list and I think it touches on most of the categories that I would be looking for.

I'm curious, Thomas, uh, as a ceo, it's likely that each of those eight ingredients are gonna be at different phases of success, then one might be further along than another. You may have to go back and give one some attention. How do you determine. Where to spend your time across those eight categories.[00:32:20] 

And how do you determine where success looks like in each 

[00:32:22] Guest 1: of those eight categories for you? Well, that's a great question. Uh, we, we built an assessment to help people, uh, with that, um, that, that you can get to from the website. But, uh, I think there's a gut instinct component, you know, good and successful business.

Or, or people who are [00:32:40] learning, they, they have a gut of, of what's broken in the business. You know, if you're not growing and you're kind of stagnant, you know, you got a sales problem and you know, I mean, that becomes fairly obvious quickly. But if you're selling well and you're not putting money to the bottom line, then you probably have a financial model problem.

Or maybe it's that you're [00:33:00] inconsistent in your delivery because you know, if the owner of the business is involved, everything goes well. But as soon as other people get involved, things. Well, you probably have an operations or a process problem, so it, it's really identifying what, what is. Pulling the owner of the business or senior leadership in the business, what, what's pulling them away from the day that they had planned?[00:33:20] 

And when you understand that, you know, the senior leaders or the, the owner of the business or the CEO is, is constantly getting pulled into. Clean up the, the delivery of a product or solve, you know, people conflicts or to, to deal with those kind of things. It's those emergencies, those have you got a minute that turn into five hours [00:33:40] that, that are gonna really be the indicator of where your pain points are and can double down on it.

It makes 

[00:33:45] Matt: a lot of sense, and I like the breadth of view you're looking at here because it talks about the key elements of strategy and people and financials and operations, and also create space for an iterative approach and to [00:34:00] evolution as the business grows and evolves and those items inevitably change.

Yeah. I'm curious for you, Thomas, I mean, as you look forward, what's next? What's the rest of 2022 look like? 

[00:34:11] Guest 1: And as we move, Uh, good question. You know, it's an exciting, uh, but somewhat challenging time in it, uh, simply because of the security [00:34:20] requirements in order to keep, keep a business operating. So cyber liability insurance has put a lot of pressure on businesses to make sure that they have the right security infrastructure.

Uh, and you know, fortunately for, for us, we were, we were prepared for that, but, but what a lot of businesses don't have, The, [00:34:40] the understanding of the budget and time requirements associated with, with making those changes. So we're gonna continue to, to really push hard in those security infrastructure components that help businesses to be safe and secure, that give 'em.

Need so that they can grow. Um, the, the challenges of a security breach [00:35:00] is that it, it just disrupts the business, uh, costs millions of dollars. The, the average recovery time of a, of a rev ransomware attack, as an example, is about 40 days. So most businesses will be down hard for three to five days. Things will start to come back together, but, but it really takes close to 40 days before you're, you're back doing business as normal.

[00:35:20] And the impact of, of on that on most businesses is sometimes not recoverable. And so, Our mission is to find, um, businesses that, that are recognizing that they want to use technology as a strategic approach to how they're going to market, how they're running their business, how they're serving their [00:35:40] people, and serving their customers, and, and figure out how we might be able to help their businesses to be successful.

Build more safety, more control into the business. So cuz we know that there's gonna be some interesting, um, bumps in the road because of the financial. Challenges that, that we're gonna [00:36:00] likely incur as a, as a country. So, so, you know, we find it that it is our responsibility to prepare for that, that upcoming, whether it's a recession or worse down the road.

Um, we don't wanna be caught off guard. So we're, we're paying close attention to building that safety and control in the business. It sounds like a lot of what you 

[00:36:19] Matt: do is work with [00:36:20] clients on their own strategies and their own planning, and I'm curious, as you have those discussions and and talk strategy and talk projects, how you get around some of their concerns, some of their fears, because we're talking about a move into technologies that for some organization, some leaders is really uncom.

[00:36:40] It's not the world they grew up in. Um, you know, we've moved already and we've moved as a necessity and like any more movement towards digital feels more and more scary. I'm curious how you work with organizations and leaders to give them the assurances that this change is, is the right thing for 

[00:36:55] Guest 1: them.

Yeah, it's, it's a tough question and one that's a little bit unique to each business, but, [00:37:00] but at a high level, I, I would, I would tell you that oftentimes businesses don't have a choice because. The, the, the challenges with talent management and, and finding enough talent and getting those things done are forcing people to look to automation and forcing them to look for innovation within the business and [00:37:20] efficiencies in the business.

And it, and it may sound simple and easy. But if it takes you 10, 15 minutes to reboot, reboot your computer and get operating. So whether it's first thing in the morning or whether you're having to reboot in the middle of the day cuz it's unstable or somebody doesn't know how to use the software that they're supposed to, and these things really have a [00:37:40] massive impact on.

Not only productivity, but the attitude that the team has about the business and their work do. Can they have pride if they're spending all of their time waiting on a slow system or waiting on a reboot or waiting on, you know, somebody else to tell 'em what to do? You know, it's, it's empowering people with the right technology that facilitates success in their [00:38:00] business.

And so, When, when we take the challenge away from are you adopting new technology, uh, or are you empowering the great people that you've hired to do more great work so that they can be successful so that you have less turnover, then, then it kind of shifts the gears a little bit. So it's like, oh, this isn't just a [00:38:20] tactical thing.

This isn't have to have, or this, you know, this ugly beast that, that just chew up a big chunk of my budget. This is a, a strategic advantage that's putting me ahead of my competition. That's making me a great place to work. And when people understand that and then surround themselves with people who can, who, who can implement that properly [00:38:40] with the right strategy and a good five year plan so that they know what to expect in their budgets, then it becomes really obvious that it's a, it's a wise investment because it's got a 10 x.

[00:38:50] Matt: Or more. Thanks so much for your time today. It was a great conversation. I really 

[00:38:53] Guest 1: enjoyed it. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for letting me be a part of it. Proud to be here.[00:39:00] 

[00:39:06] Matt: N O HR is a digital transformation consultancy working at the intersection of strategy, technology, and people operations. We partner with organizations, private equity and venture capital firms to accelerate value creation. And [00:39:20] identify the organization's highest leverage initiatives. And this can take place in many forms from strategic planning and alignment to technology, procurement, implementation, and integration along with organizational design process, re-engineering and change management.

With our proven track record of working with [00:39:40] complex high growth organizations, we provide a lens that goes beyond the balance sheet, increasing enterprise readiness, resilience, and value. For more information, check us out@bentohr.com.