How Entrepreneurs Find Emotional Resilience - Bryan Wish

In today’s episode, I again chat with Bryan Wish, a San Francisco-based Founder & CEO of Arcbound, a full-service personal branding platform. 

From starting a content platform with 800+ contributors, to establishing an investment fund’s global community across 30+ countries, Bryan has seen firsthand the power of content and community in fulfilling one’s mission.

Bryan saw the opportunity to build a company like Arcbound while working on a book launch for The Creative Curve by tech CEO Allen Gannett. Bryan realized Allen wasn’t just launching a book; he was building a personal brand. With that in mind, Bryan set out to build an end-to-end service to create a sustainable platform for leaders who want to unify others with their message. Four years later, Arcbound has worked with 100+ clients, from Fortune 100 CEOs to global investors and bestselling authors.

Bryan has also become a friend. We’ve kept in touch; each checking in on the other. In this episode, we talked about finding creativity in times of stress. We shared our individual experiences building resilience as an entrepreneur, and how that’s become a powerful lesson as we help other leaders.

Beyond that, I had a lot of fun, and hope you enjoy our conversation, as much as I did recording it.

Check out Bryan's first podcast appearance at episode 57:  How to Find Pathways to Belonging

Bryan Wish

As CEO of Arcbound, Bryan Wish focuses on growth and business development, hiring, public relations, and executing the company’s strategic vision.

He has built his career around mobilizing communities and bringing unique voices and perspectives to the masses. From starting a content platform with 800+ contributors, to establishing an investment fund’s global community across 30+ countries.

Bryan loves hiking in Tahoe or Yosemite, building out his wardrobe piece by piece in local vintage stores, refining his newly found tennis game, exploring the world, or doing some deep introspection by a fire while listening to acoustic folk music.

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Matt Burns

Matt Burns is an award-winning executive, social entrepreneur and speaker. He believes in the power of community, simplicity & technology.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Guest 1: It's like the return, right? The, the bringing it all together is always the hardest part they say. But it also, I think is a super fun experimentation play part of it to, to really figure out how to like, bring that into the world. So, I'm excited for you. Excited to be a path [00:00:20] Meet with you.

[00:00:35] Matt: Constraints, strive, innovation. Hey everyone, it's Matt here for another episode of [00:00:40] Thinking Inside the Box, a show where we discuss complex issues related to work and. If you're interested in checking out our other content, you can find us@bentohr.com and wherever you find your favorite podcasts. By searching, thinking inside the box.

And if you enjoy the work we're doing here, consider leaving [00:01:00] us alike. A comment and subscribing. It ensures you get updated whenever we release new content and really helps amplify our message. In today's episode, I again chat with Brian. The San Francisco based founder and c e o of Arc bound, a full service personal branding [00:01:20] platform.

Brian has built his entire career around mobilizing communities and bringing unique voices and perspectives to the masses. From starting a content platform with over 800 contributors to establishing an investments funds global community across 30 plus. Brian has seen firsthand the power of [00:01:40] content and community in fulfilling one's own mission.

Brian's also become a friend. We've kept in touch eight, checking in on the other, often with many months between replies. And in this episode, we had a chance to catch up. And talked about things like finding creativity in times of stress, [00:02:00] and each of us shared our individual experiences around building resilience as an entrepreneur and how that's become a powerful lesson as we help others.

And we chatted about the importance of intention in everything. It was a fun conversation, and I really hope you enjoy it as much as I did having with Brian. [00:02:20] And now I bring you Brian. Brian wish. It has been years. We've tried to have this conversation on a number of occasions, but life has conspired against us.

I'm really looking forward to connecting with you again, having a conversation. We don't have any plan. We're flying by the seat of our pants. Before we get to [00:02:40] that, I mean just how have you been? 

[00:02:42] Guest 1: I, I'm looking at your Yosemite sign in the background. I've been on a crazy journey for about 16 months, and I finally settled in September, and Yosemite was a big part of that, uh, journey for about a month in the cabin, uh, in the [00:03:00] woods by the park.

I, I'm, I'm be, I'm probably better than I've ever been emotionally, spiritually, healthy, physically. Work's going well, not that, you know, life's perfect and, uh, things aren't hard, but I'd say overall I'm, I'm really. In [00:03:20] a good spot. 

[00:03:21] Matt: A, a month in the woods sounds like heaven to a man who spent a majority of the pandemic bouncing around the province of British Columbia, finding his own little cabins in the woods, I, I absolutely want to get into that.

For those who didn't have an opportunity to enjoy our first conversation together, I'm gonna link those show notes, uh, those details, sorry, in the show notes. But Brian, for those who don't know [00:03:40] you, who is Brian Wish, what's Brian Wish all about and what's a bit about your professional? 

[00:03:45] Guest 1: Matt, I you're, you just get better and better at this, don't you?

120 

[00:03:49] Matt: episodes in Brian. I've learned one or two things and I've forgotten about a thousand others. . 

[00:03:56] Guest 1: Yeah, so the way I'd answer this is, [00:04:00] you know, like, what, what am I all about? I think in the last year a big shift has happened where I've start, I've shifted a lot from like my own sense of survival of like, how am I gonna.

Eat and breathe and make this company work to like, how do I really be of [00:04:20] service to others in, in everything that I do and how I think about having a vehicle to serve is through what I am doing. But, uh, to me it's, it's, it's so much bigger than just work. It's, it's really helping everyone I talk to meet along the way that find.[00:04:40] 

And accelerate, uh, a path, um, that they want to chart down, that that makes them come alive and that they have a vision for in their own life and helping them figure out how they get there. Um, there's nothing more that makes me excited when people take how they feel and what they're [00:05:00] noticing on the inside and aligning that to their external actions.

And I think that. My purpose in the world to help enable being an enabler for that in a number of different ways, uh, for individuals. So that is how I would say that is me [00:05:20] and the world today. 

[00:05:21] Matt: As always, you allude to something much deeper, and I absolutely want to get into it, but I want to get business out of the way first.

Arc Bound has been in operation now for almost five years. Um, you guys have done some pretty amazing things. What does Arc Bound do and how does it serve 

[00:05:36] Guest 1: the. Yeah, thanks Matt. Wait, [00:05:40] so four, so about four years ago we launched and my vision, uh, then, uh, is still the same as it is today. It's just a little more enhanced.

In 2017, I was working with an author in Washington, dc Uh, he was launching a book called The Creative Curve. Um, he was also going through a divorce [00:06:00] and he was getting his company merged and acquired. And he asked me, you know, Brian, will you come launch my book? And what I really think he was asking me was, can you come run my life?

And, and what I really noticed then was a few things. Uh, we were systematically engineering his personal brand. [00:06:20] To take off in the world to enable things that he, he was to go do next to, to launch the book, start a fund, create leverage and momentum in networking community in a very specific area. And in that process, a few things started happening, and I'm gonna get to your question, but I want to bring [00:06:40] it together.

I saw personal branding, thought leadership, pr, publishing, all these industries, some new, some older. We're really coming together all under one roof. I was managing three different vendors working with Alan, and from an economics [00:07:00] perspective, it just didn't make sense to me. I'm like, they all had their business models.

You had to connect 'em. One person who's super busy or two people had to manage a group of people, so I didn't like that. And I, I also saw thought to myself, there must be tens of thousands of Allens in this world. [00:07:20] Uh, there must be a way to build a full service platform that enables these experts, these CEOs, authors, investors, top executives, activists, political leaders.

To, to go out and like, take what's in their body and their head and with how they feel and, and enact upon it in a way that's [00:07:40] streamlined, that creates economies of scale and like build our own, you know, everything store around this model for these people, um, so that they can go chart their own path and their arc, just as I've been trying to do my whole life in a very intentional way.

And so what Arc Bound is, is a manifestation of really everything. [00:08:00] I am, uh, and everything that I see in the world to help other people take on a similar journey with a service model that enables that in a very productized kind of step driven way. Um, so those journeys can be very meaningful and, um, thoughtful.

So over the last four years, I guess five years with [00:08:20] Alan, right, we've been able to work. I got 120 plus clients and we have about 35 active clients today and have grown the team close to 20. Full-time is come with a lot of, a lot of personal growth. Mm-hmm. , a lot of stumbles and a lot of professional, necessary [00:08:40] professional growth, but the two are very intertwined.

[00:08:42] Matt: Brian, thank you for indulging my follow up questions that were more business oriented for somebody. Makes a living promoting other people, you're just not very good at doing it for yourself. Cause I know you're a really humble and grounded guy and I wanted to take the opportunity to celebrate a bit about the things that you've accomplished because it is pretty remarkable [00:09:00] and the impact that you've had.

You know, as you met referenced, I was there when Alan released his first book. I have a copy on my bookshelf and I've connected with you since that journey and seeing you. Grow and evolve. And it, it's really, it just makes me happy to see how much you've come in such a short period of time and just wanna take a moment to celebrate that.

And [00:09:20] you know, I think it's, it goes without saying, but I know that not all those days were positive days. That there were some challenging days along it. And it takes a certain kind of resilience to push through four plus years of entrepreneurship against the backdrop of a pandemic. Yeah. 

[00:09:34] Guest 1: Yeah. What was that?

I mean, I think the fa, the resilience piece is important, but it was, you know, I [00:09:40] think what I've learned through this, and this can maybe lead to the personal growth and maybe my own kind of personal breakdown through all of this. I, I developed throughout my whole life a really strong sense of functional resilience, meaning something hit me hard and I got through it, but emotionally, if something shattered me, it, it totally [00:10:00] broke me down.

And I didn't have maybe up until going through some things over the last year and a half, any sense of emotional resilience. Um, and so I would say part of the last four to five years hasn't just been. The growth of the business, which has been amazing and special and [00:10:20] remarkable in its own right, which is I'm slowly becoming present too.

But really the growth of self through his period of significant events, that all catalyzed something so much deeper and richer for, for my own evolution. So I just wanted to expand on resilience. I can, I can dive deeper. I also wanna let you do your thing too. [00:10:40] We're gonna dive 

[00:10:40] Matt: deep, Brian. That's the reason why we have these conversations.

I, I look forward to our time together because it always goes well beyond the surface level and you know, a lot of ways your journey very much parallels mine. For an, an individual who started out in entrepreneurship around the same time and certainly had my own trials and tribulations as Bento [00:11:00] navigated a, a challenging enterprise technology landscape.

At the same time, I also can appreciate the parallel personal growth every organization. Regardless if you're selling widgets or ice cream, cones or services is ultimately a manifestation of its founding team. And it becomes, it takes on the [00:11:20] personality of in, in the case of your organization, you and in Bento me and I.

I have a deeper appreciation of that now, having been through those cycles for fiscal years of cycles and you know, looking at our finances and our strategy and looking at goals that we set for ourselves and asking did we meet them or not? You know, it is just, [00:11:40] it's a challenging space that. I encourage everyone to have an opportunity who has an opportunity in life to take, to take that opportunity.

Because entrepreneurship alone, yes, you're gonna build skills for me. Brian, you talk about resilience. One of the original catalysts for me to lead my organizational world, that corporate world behind and and start my own business, was to build functional resilience in [00:12:00] myself. I realized that I was a corporate executive who spent 50 hours a week in meetings, but accomplished nothing.

I didn't have any real skills other than chairing good meeting. And sending well thought emails and those skills in a world that is increasingly becoming volatile, didn't feel all that secure. What I ultimately wanted to do is build out a broader [00:12:20] toolkit, though as I tried to explore that in a corporate setting, I found myself constrained by bureaucracies, by budget constraints, by just time constraints.

So entrepreneurship for me was very much a playground, a bit of a sandbox, and a huge privilege to be able to look at it that way and, and to have that experience. Uh, I'm curious for, you talked about this. And I'm really fascinated by the [00:12:40] concept of a cabin. Yeah. I'm just curious, Brian, what were you looking for when you went to the cabin and what did you find after you had left?

[00:12:47] Guest 1: Yeah, so the cabin was only, uh, just a sag segment of the experience. So, uh, about a year in, a year and a half ago, [00:13:00] I went through a, you know, a breakup and you know, like everyone goes through breakups and everyone goes through like really hard moments. for, for whatever reason, like I had been, up until that point in my life, I'd been building my, my life in a very tight roped g p s kinda way.

It was mm-hmm. built the business [00:13:20] so that I could have the family, so that I could do the things, you know, and it was like I didn't compromise on that path, even if like the car was going in the wrong direction. I saw how long, because it was still like the ingrained g p s that I had, which was created.

From probably rooted in a lot of childhood experiences. I wasn't [00:13:40] really maybe conscious to, to any of that. I was just, I was working my tail off, I was being super intentional and then I was like, I found the perfect relationship. I thought that I was, you know, blind to a lot of things and it collapsed.

But I think what happened was it, it really, um, it was like one of those things where [00:14:00] I. I, I really lost so much of like, who, like, I didn't really know who I was and then like I, it wasn't just cause I put myself in that relationship, but I had never taken the time to understand my past and, and settle that so I could like really live freely, um, and, and who I was.[00:14:20] 

And so that, that, that experience really broke me. And what it, what it caused me to do, you know, I had. Like vision. I was swimming laps. I knew the thing was coming to the end. I was swimming laps one day and it was like, go out, go west. I was living in Washington, DC at the time. I said, go to Denver [00:14:40] and figure it out from there.

So like that, that feeling stayed in my body for two weeks. I was like, all right, screw it. I'm gonna do it. So I broke the lease, I sold everything, and I went out to Denver for two months, like more loss than I'd ever been really in my whole life. And like what I was [00:15:00] seeking or finding, I, I was trying to find myself and really understand myself.

Um, I had no idea how I was gonna do it. I didn't even know if there was an answer. Uh, I just knew I needed to go. I got out to Denver and. You know, I, I started, there's this guy in my life, this older guy [00:15:20] named Rich. He had been, he'd just been helpful in my life for two years prior. Helpful in the business, helpful in just, you know, like a father figure type, but very emotionally advanced.

And he kept checking in on me and he decided to come visit me cause he knew I was really struggling, you know, I definitely was in a darker spot. I remember he came out to [00:15:40] visit me and you know, it just unearthed so many conversations. I mean, broke down, you know, in this guy's arms multiple times. Like I just like, it was like a cleansing of what felt like 20 years, not just like that, that like party from the summer, but like everything from the past and it was like all shedding and coming out [00:16:00] and coming out.

And so over the next year, pretty much. I was on the road, right? I was in Denver for two months. I went to the Pacific Northwest in Portland and Seattle, and then I spent time in the cabin in Northern California. And then I came down to Santa Clara and that was like six straight months, just like [00:16:20] every six to eight weeks or four weeks in different parts of the country.

And I was, yes, I was building the company and actually growing it. Like my days were, get up early, work, go to the gym. And then at night I did this emotional work with Rich from like eight to probably 10, 11 p s d, [00:16:40] you know, at night. And literally like through the last year and a half I've created a, this like personal insight stock, like on myself, I think of like a product manual on yourself that's like 60 pages of like insights with stories, understandings, all these pieces.

And. I, rich [00:17:00] has been there for e every step as I've kind of gone through, let's just say the tunnel and now like, you know, pretty along from the tunnel. But like the way I see the world, the way I show up in the world, the way I've, I think evolved in the world is, is I, you know, I feel like I've done 10 years of therapy and like a year [00:17:20] and it's, it's, it's com fundamentally shifted who I am.

I live in San Francisco now. and I've just a whole new life, you know, and, and it's, I, I do it. I feel super free and fluid in who I am, and I think I got what I was looking for. Not that I really knew what I was [00:17:40] trying to find in the first place, but it was myself, I guess. When you know, you know, and you know, you know, 

[00:17:45] Matt: I'm curious, the 60 page operating manual to Brian Wish, what's one thing in there that surprises you about yourself?

[00:17:54] Guest 1: Ooh, I have so many things, but one of the things that you know [00:18:00] about, like for instance, like, oh, here's a personality like thing that I'm really like makes I, I have a, so I'll start out by saying I have a sticky note at the top of my computer and it says, impulsivity equals loss. And so this is one of the things I've really like learned.

I'm a very like black and white person, [00:18:20] and. If certain, certain things are going a certain way that like feel outta my control or whatever, right. I can be very impulsive, like in those moments. Let's might be fire an email to a team member because I'm pissed at the way something was done. It might be on a [00:18:40] text thread in like, you know, I get uncomfortable if it's not, if there's a little grayness, right?

And so then I'm impulsive in the text because I'm like fearing. It's the loss of something happening. And, and it drives me that to action. And I think like, part of this whole [00:19:00] journey is like really learning how to sit within that discomfort, which is really hard to do to, to not, you know, be so impulsive around specific actions that where I'm, where I'm not as comfortable, that might drive me to action.

Right? Like, that's just one, I mean, there's. [00:19:20] And a lot of this though has been like men, you know, beyond that, like a lot of men's work or emotional work and I mean, there's so much in there, but um, that's one that like is just looking at me right in the face right now, so Well, and 

[00:19:32] Matt: the beauty of having a 60 page manual is that every page is a different day and every day is a different page and you can flip through as you see fit as [00:19:40] somebody who's done a lot of his own personal.

Alongside my professional journey, including men's work. I, I deeply resonate with what you're sharing. Brian. I think it, it speaks to the fact that traditionally, you know, I look back at my career and I was fortunate like yourself to have a lot of success early on. I was able to climb the corporate [00:20:00] ladder.

I was able to achieve titles and you know, opportunities and experiences that ultimately went on to fuel my business. Yeah. And at the same time as I look back at that stage of my life, I realized that I really hadn't integrated all the various elements of my life. And like you, I had prioritized work over everything else.

Yeah. My [00:20:20] relationships, my family, my friends, my personal health, both physically and mentally, but also spiritually and. For me, I had this, to your point, a singular focus on a goal. I was not really looking at the periphery, and if I had, I would've realized that. If you looked at a balanced scorecard, that was my life, it was actually very [00:20:40] imbalanced that I was overperforming in work and underperforming in every other part of my life.

And ultimately it broke me too, and it showed up in the form of burnout. It showed up in the, uh, form of some early struggles in my organization. Um, and as I look back at the last four years has manifested in what has been for me the least creative. In terms of content production [00:21:00] period of my entire life where I've always written, I've always spoken, I've always created content.

The last four years I've navigated challenges and it's absolutely had an impact on my willingness to share my creativity and the things I can come up with. Um, the insights that I often get just ambiently from living in [00:21:20] this world and experiencing. And Brian, you went through a similar journey where you transformed yourself over the course of nearly 18 months, and at the same time, you're running a firm that's tasked with building the brands and telling the stories of other individuals.

An organization that is built on foundations of relationships and creativity. [00:21:40] I'm just gonna imagine that as you're going through this personal journey, that would've made it very challenging for you at times to show up in your professional capacity, knowing what you're going through personally. I'm just curious how those two things may be blended during your own journey.

[00:21:51] Guest 1: Yeah. I wanna hear more about yours. Um, I'll tell you, I'll tell you more. Go ahead. But, you know, it's funny, I, I think you picked up on [00:22:00] something because a, you know, a few people I've sh shared in this detail, I think have been surprised at the ability to balance and juggle both first and foremost. I'll just say like, I, I, having rich in my life through this was, was insurmountable.

Like, insurmountable. Like, it was so helpful. I could not shown up every day, like [00:22:20] without just like being able to. For probably about a good six, seven to eight months. I woke up every day very heavy and so to like be able to work through each layer every night and have at my beckoning call 24, like to work me through, it was unbelievable mid fifties.[00:22:40] 

Second, I have a good business partner, great business partner named Carson. He really kind of held the fork down operationally. The vision was very defined. I was working on the rebrand. I was really driving sales and really like trying, you know, helping with some of the talent, but I wasn't as focused internally maybe as I should have been in [00:23:00] retrospect, but was able to, to, um, get by and get through this and still grow and, and, and build the building blocks to this vision because I had a great business partner and so I'll, I'll acknowledge that.

[00:23:18] Matt: Hey everyone, it's Matt here. [00:23:20] I hope you're enjoying today's discussion. And before we continue, I wanted to make you aware of my latest creative project this week at Work. Presented in partnership with my good friend Chris Rainey of HR Leaders. Each Friday will livestream on LinkedIn at 7:00 AM Pacific Standard Time.

That's 10:00 AM Eastern Standard Time [00:23:40] and 3:00 PM G M T for our European view. And together bringing the latest trends, news on topics emanating from organizations, everything from culture to technology, and the future of work joining is easy. Just follow me on LinkedIn. Click the bell at the top right hand side of my profile and you'll get notified when [00:24:00] we go live each week.

And whether you do experience the content live or later, if you've been following me for a while, you'll no doubt recognize the fun banter Chris and I have developed over the years and whether it's been podcasts or digital events. We're so excited to again, bring you the topics affecting today's workplaces and their leaders.

And now [00:24:20] back to our discussion.

[00:24:23] Guest 1: To your point, though, There was a period where I wasn't sharing a lot creativity to the external. I was taking a lot of notes and the way I really documented things was through a few lengthy Instagram and LinkedIn post. And then I created videos every step of [00:24:40] this way. So I did one, maybe the first month in a all vulnerable share.

I did one maybe, uh, four months in and then like nine months in. Um, and what I think, you know, my biggest insight from all. Just as like, you're right, we're helping our clients step into [00:25:00] themselves, really belong in their own skin, share their voice, get comfortable in that discomfort of being who they are.

As a leader of the company, I needed to do the same and, and what I realized in retrospect is like I was functionally building a business, but I wasn't building a brand. and yeah, [00:25:20] I was trying to lead others down the path and we were just functionally building, helping them build, but were we helping them like build the brand under with this lens?

And so I like had to embody what we were doing first, if we were gonna lead others down that same path. And if you asked me then if that's really what I was doing, I would say, you're crazy. I don't understand. But now like [00:25:40] as I think that jobs quote is like, you can always connect the dots looking backwards.

And it makes so much sense that I had to fully step into myself and lead in that capacity if I was gonna be guiding other people to do the same. I just didn't have the context then that I do now. So was it very hard and challenging to [00:26:00] get up every day and work through it? Yes. I was very lucky. I had a angel on my shoulder emotionally, and I also had an angel in the business as a partner.

And I also am so grateful cause I realized most people may not have one or both, and they have to do [00:26:20] this alone, and it takes a lot longer. And I got through it. I think that the, the thick of it, um, faster than most, but there's no timeline at the same time. I was just, I think, very 

[00:26:32] Matt: fortuitous. I wanna be fair, you expressed some curiosity about my journey, so I'll turn the tables.

I wanna hear, ask away what [00:26:40] questions do you want to hear him 

[00:26:40] Guest 1: about? I mean, look, when I met you four or five years ago, you looked completely different. You completely different energy. It was just a, it was just, I mean, the mat that I knew then is not, I mean, you look like a completely different person in a good way, by the way.

Like, like I, it is just a different [00:27:00] but energy, I don't know. . So you said you've been doing this work. I'm curious what the catalyst was, what, what's in, you know, what you've done through this journey, what you've, the tools you've picked up along the way. Just yeah. Whatever you wanna share. I'm, I'm, I'm intrigued.

Like 

[00:27:17] Matt: yourself. I found myself [00:27:20] at a juncture in life where I had the opportunity to reexamine everything, and I'm very aware of the privilege that I had in doing. I was able to look at my career that, as I mentioned earlier, I was overperforming in the business parts of my life, but also look at my relationship at the time, my family [00:27:40] relationships, my friends, et cetera, and was able to be real with myself and take a step back, and I didn't like what I saw.

I didn't like the design that I built. I didn't like the way that I felt in that design, and I didn't see a path forward that was either fulfilling nor happy, and I didn't [00:28:00] really know what to do with that information other than just to be depressed for a period of time. But I've always been blessed with a strong bias for action.

It's a consequence of how I grew up, where I learned early on that if things needed to get done, For me, I needed to do them for myself. Whether that was [00:28:20] emotionally, whether that was forging my career path, whether that was building relationships. I had to do a lot of those things for myself. And while I could spend the time lamenting what I didn't have, I instead tried to focus on what I could gain from those experiences.

And my journey was circuitous. It was [00:28:40] bumpy. I made a ton of mistakes. Um, one such mistake was like, I was rather impulsive about my decision to leave the corporate world and launch a business to begin with. I was buoyed by a lot of self-confidence. I just recently completed an M B A. I had begun to move some of those bigger pieces around the, the chess [00:29:00] board, as it were, and created a whole bunch of flexibility in my life that would allow me to travel the world and work would allow me to.

Creatively be unencumbered, and I really want to lean into that energy, that ego driving energy of what, let's see what I can accomplish. At the same time, I was feeling a sense of [00:29:20] gratitude towards the fact that I had the ability to do that and really want to affect change for other people. I really wanted to be in service to other people, so all these things conspire to catalyze this, a lot of energy around.

Named to make some pretty big shifts. I did that. In retrospect, I'd wish I'd taken more time to [00:29:40] understand the emotional catalysts for that, that were driving the decision and the impulsiveness. Cause it felt very much like I didn't have a choice. Hmm. It felt very much like something I had to do. And I know looking back now, that's not true.

And at the same time I am. [00:30:00] Stubborn about the fact that when I make a shift, I generally change everything. And I cut the ropes to the boats so that I can't go back to shore. I'm going, and the, the path is only going to be forward in whatever shape that takes, which is why it's circuitous, by the way.

Cause if I'd taken time to plan it, be more thoughtful, I may have been able to take less steps. But [00:30:20] moving forward allowed me the opportunity to explore and experience things in my life, whether that was through therapy, whether that was building new friend groups, entering into new relationships, trying different things professionally and creatively.

It afforded me the opportunity to look at my life as a complete picture and understand how all the various elements [00:30:40] influenced each other, both positively and negatively, and how things like my diet would affect my work, which would affect my relationships, which would affect my spirituality, and all those things tied together.

Whereas before, I made decisions very much impulsively and in the moment, and understanding this is the short term impact. You do X, you get y. I understood through the experience that it's far more nuanced [00:31:00] than that, that my life is far more nuanced than being a one trick pony who works 60 hours a week and contributes nothing else to society.

And as I started to figure out what I wanted and what I didn't want, perhaps most importantly, I. Threw myself into different [00:31:20] vehicles for personal growth that I thought would be useful. I joined men's groups. I met with countless therapists across multiple modalities talk therapy, CB C B D C B T, sorry.

Um, and then ultimately somatic therapy that allowed me to kind of join the physi physiology of stress and trauma with the [00:31:40] spirituality and psychology of trauma, and work on some of those elements. I was more thoughtful. My life plan, I started to eat way more responsibly and for somebody who didn't drink already was just more diligent about the things that I put into my body and that the impact that they would have on how I showed up in the world.

It was re resetted back into [00:32:00] physicality and exercise and things you talk about around being in the gym and. While the gym isn't my favorite place, I do enjoy physicality and going for long hikes and snowshoeing. And, you know, being more involved in nature combined with physicality, to me is really rewarding and enriching.

And at the same [00:32:20] time, I, as I was going through those changes, Brian, I found myself in some cases just shifting pieces around the chess. But I would say that while they, in some cases moved me closer to where I wanted to go, they didn't always yield the answer. [00:32:40] And the more I've gone down this path, and the longer I've gone on this journey, the deeper appreciation I have for the fact that it never really ends, that you just continue to learn and grow.

And I think the moment it stops for you is the moment that you say to yourself, I'm. And I think that's a sad day. [00:33:00] A day I hope for me never comes. I never want to be in a position where I feel like my journey has come to an end and I have nothing else to contribute and learn. I, I want to be curious and a lifelong learner have experiences and I think like yourself, as I look towards.

The coming months, I'm, I'm called in a way [00:33:20] that I haven't been called since about the first time we met four and a half years ago to really share that with other people. I felt like my experience the last four years has largely been for me and for my benefit, and I think going forward, I'm, I'm much more committed to.

Having those experiences be a benefit for other people in whatever shape that takes. And you know, [00:33:40] that's a little bit of a flavor of what's happened over the last little while. Um, is obviously much more nuance and trials and tribulations along the way, but it's something that I'm still very much wrestling with through the other side of that tunnel you mentioned and putting it into words for me, something that's still very much taking shape.

Yeah. 

[00:33:56] Guest 1: Oof. What they, wow. Good for you. [00:34:00] Seriously, that's amazing that you've been able to. Take all this time to just examine, reexamine. How do you feel today? I'd say 

[00:34:11] Matt: today I feel more settled than I did when I began this journey. Uh, you referenced earlier the, the way I'm [00:34:20] showing up today, I feel so much more grounded.

I feel so much more settled. I feel so much more at peace. Going into this felt the adrenaline and the ego and the drive to achieve great things. And on the other end of it, I have peace and a sense of contentment with what [00:34:40] has happened, knowing that going forward, ultimately this is the path for me that's going to be the creator of great things.

That part of. Growth was shedding some of those anxious or nervous or, uh, fear-based [00:35:00] drivers and motivators for me, and instead are placing them with ones that are much more selfless and much more 

[00:35:06] Guest 1: measured. Yeah, I mean, I can feel it across the screen. I think it's a really healthy place to be and like a healthy place to create from.

And I think, you know, you talk about the hero's journey, right? Which is I think very [00:35:20] in line with your own experience, like the return, right? The, the bringing it all together is always the hardest part they say, but also I think is a super fun experimentation play part of it to, to really figure out how to like bring that into the world.

So, I'm excited for you. Excited to be a path mate [00:35:40] with you. Well, it brings 

[00:35:41] Matt: me to the path forward cause I know that you're somebody who's always had big dreams, big visions for yourself in the world that we all live on. As you look at the next coming months, Brian, like what do you see for yourself? What has taking shape?

[00:35:55] Guest 1: Yeah. I mean, I, I think it, it's nothing. Yeah, you talk about life [00:36:00] design, it's nothing. Is any different maybe than what it is today? It's just a more of a compounded view forward. I mean, I, I see my life as like a set of mountains or pillars, right? Them scaling and some simultaneously, some in the distant future, [00:36:20] some in the near distant future.

I think like we talked about, health, emotional, physical, spiritual health, right? I think. That's at the core of enabling anything in your life to like actually continue to happen and the way you want it to happen, right? So I think three months from now, I, I wanna be healthy in all those ways, right? As I [00:36:40] feel most, for the most part today.

I mean, again, it's never perfect you're your days, but you know, you can come back much quicker. I, I'm so pa I really like, um, just feel so reinvigorated, building what we're building. Um, not that I ever lost passion, but I wasn't. Showing [00:37:00] up, I would say to the organization with the fullness that I am today, and I think a lot of the past has contributed towards that.

So I just continuing to build, I think I've really accepted, like I'm not the guy who's gonna be like going out dating tons of girls and doing all these things. Like, it's not who I am. I'm like, I'm, I want to build, I want [00:37:20] to like create a, a incredible organization and like put my focus there. I do want a family one day I wanna find a really good partner who like matches me at the intellectual level and the emotional level, and also with like, their own professional dreams, right?

And I think that could be hard to find, but like I do, like I, I want that. [00:37:40] Um, and so like whether that's a near distant or five years from now, or three years or six months, I think I'd love to, I'd love to enjoy a journey like that. and like, I wanna travel, like I want, you know, work is a conduit to take me to different parts of the world, but also experience those places for what they are beyond the work itself.

[00:38:00] Um, and I think they can be integrated and intertwined. Um, and like to me, three months from now, a year from now, five years from now, like, I think those are the things I want to be doing or focused on. And something, you know, you talk about like, Being out of the tunnel or having the perspective, like I have started to [00:38:20] really take my like mindsets and more of like an other's focus mentality or like really showing up for.

A few individuals in my life in a way that like I never have been able to maybe serve to give in the past. And so being able to really guide people down their own walk if they're going through a hard time and show up for them and guide them as [00:38:40] Rich did for me. Like to me, I, I feel like I need to pay that forward.

Um, and it's the right thing to do and like, it feels really good. I, I could never understood why someone was helping me so much and I was like, why are you doing this and this? And. , but there's one person in particular who like, I've been able to like really like [00:39:00] fast track, uh, yeah, I think emotionally, uh, professionally and has taken on the work.

It's just such pa like rigor, uh, and to just see that matched in the effort I'm giving, but also like how they're going through it is, is unbelievable. And like, it's, it's things like that that are like, wow, I think I'm [00:39:20] really on the right track in terms of giving back and like, Supporting beyond just helping people in the company or whatever, which is important.

Um, but I'm starting to see how everything's in there connecting. And so when I look at what's ahead, like just continuing to, I think, serve and, [00:39:40] and, and the way that people have helped me in giving that away. So, yeah, to your question, the next three months, I hope that it's very similar in three years and then 10 years, just a more, a bigger and bigger version of at every step, um, to a degree or the same version with more insights and learnings 

[00:39:57] Matt: behind it.

It goes without saying, but I [00:40:00] intend to be. Along with you, with you on that journey as you continue to take those steps forward. Brian, I've always thought a lot of you, your mission, your selflessness has always shn through in a, in a world and in a time when it's very easy to choose selfishness. You talked about your journey.

I've shared a bit about my journey. We're [00:40:20] not alone in having challenges over the last several years. I'm blessed with a very loving and caring and supportive, but also a group of men that holds me accountable. And I know that over the course of the pandemic, each of us needed to tap into the collective wisdom and [00:40:40] knowledge from the group at various.

and that could have been somebody who was drinking a little bit more than perhaps they were before the pandemic and needed to be asked about how they were doing, or somebody who had just gone through a breakup. I was struggling a bit emotionally with the isolation of the pandemic com, compounded with a loss of partnership [00:41:00] or somebody who was a new parent and struggling with the weight of becoming a parent for the first time.

In a world that feels less safe than perhaps it has at various points in our lives. I can't stress enough the importance of your story of Rich and the people that he's obviously helped and the people that you are now [00:41:20] helping and paying it forward. And I feel similarly called to do the same thing as we impart some form of knowledge onto folks that are taking a similar path and hopefully in their cases, maybe with less steps and with less bumps and bruises along the way and with their own.

Goals and outcomes and [00:41:40] desires from it. And I get really excited about the future cuz I do feel like there's a collective healing that's happening in the world as we've come out of this more challenging period of time. And yes, there's challenges. You don't have to look far to find them. And I do see there's more and more momentum building around, to your point, people looking less inward and now [00:42:00] looking more outward.

And I think that's ultimately where we all find success. Is when we start to look at this in a proverbial we as opposed to more of a traditional me sense. And I get excited about that potential in that future. Yeah. Brian? Uh, I mean, thank you so much for joining today. I always appreciate our [00:42:20] conversations and our chats.

It's been a real pleasure. I'm looking forward to staying in touch and seeing where this goes for you. I think it's gonna be an exciting 

[00:42:25] Guest 1: journey. Well, thanks Matt. It's been a pleasure. And the last thing I'll say on their healing aspect is, One of the most profound things I've heard maybe in the last year is that like, hurt people hurt people, right?

And [00:42:40] like, people who can heal themselves can heal others. And I, I think that's so, so fascinating because of what you can see differently. So, um, I think it's a good way to close this out and, uh, always a pleasure, man. Uh, thrilled we did. 

[00:42:54] Matt: We'll do it again sometime in not too distant future. Hopefully not so long until the next one.

Brian. Save [00:43:00] travels five years and, uh, yeah, we'll talk real soon.

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