How Organizations Approach Hiring Ethics - Alex Murphy

Alex Murphy is an Entrepreneur, Investor, and Advisor to start-ups and other companies in the Talent Acquisition Technology (TAtech) industry. He is currently the CEO and co-founder of JobSync, creating a simple, seamless, and secure hiring experience for employers and candidates.

Previously, Alex was a Senior Vice President at Beyond.com, Inc.EVP of eCommerce for The Healthy Back Store and Sit4Less.com and was a co-founder of Job.com.

In this episode, we discuss the Job Sync origin story, the forces that led to its inception, and how its solving traditional frustrations in the job search process. 

Not long ago, technology was viewed as the solution; a democratizing force that assured applicants could digitally apply for roles regardless of location. Organizations saw it as an opportunity to streamline their internal processes, enhance record-keeping and automate many of the repetitive, mundane tasks that take so much time. 

Along the way we lost sight of this. It’s a common refrain that the hiring process is now ‘inhumane’. Candidates apply for roles with little hope of acknowledgement and organizations are enslaved to the administrivia necessary to keep systems running. 

Alex wanted to solve these problems; simultaneously enhance the candidate experience and free up time for organizations to connect with prospective employees. 

We chatted about this, though also a number of other relevant, and timely topics, including transparency in advertising. How predatory practices related to fraudulent job postings are a real threat to individual privacy.

And the importance of intentionally embedding equity and inclusion in the hiring process to ensure fairness of opportunity and that ultimately, the best fit for any role is the one who’s selected. 

Alex Murphy

Alex Murphy is an Entrepreneur, Investor, and Advisor to start-ups and other companies in the Talent Acquisition Technology (TAtech) industry. He is currently the CEO and co-founder of JobSync, creating a simple, seamless, and secure hiring experience for employers and candidates.

Previously, Alex was a Senior Vice President at Beyond.com, Inc.EVP of eCommerce for The Healthy Back Store and Sit4Less.com and was a co-founder of Job.com.

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Constraints drive innovation. Each week we’ll tackle the most complex issues related to work & culture.

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Matt Burns

Matt Burns is an award-winning executive, social entrepreneur and speaker. He believes in the power of community, simplicity & technology.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Guest 1: [00:00:00] Certainly many layoffs have forced even more administration onto these recruiters and they have an even greater need for finding [00:00:10] tools and solutions that can help facilitate removal of that, that burden from their day to day so that they can go spend time. Yeah, people are applying to their [00:00:20] jobs and develop those relationships.

[00:00:30] Matt: [00:00:36] constraints. Drive innovation. Hey everyone. It's Matt here. For [00:00:40] another episode, I was thinking inside the box where each week we discuss complex issues related to work and culture. If you're interested in checking out our other content, you can find us at [00:00:50] bento, hr.com. Now in virtual reality, each Thursday at 6:00 PM.

Pacific standard time in Altspace VR or wherever you find, [00:01:00] find your favorite podcasts by searching, thinking inside the box. In today's episode, I chat with Alex Murphy, CEO of job sync, a technology solution that [00:01:10] connects native apply tools like indeed Facebook and LinkedIn to an organization's applicant tracking system.

Now, today, many companies take a [00:01:20] candidate from a platform like indeed. And then transfer them to a company page and then finally, to an applicant tracking system where the recruiters in the [00:01:30] organization and the hiring managers seek to filter through all the applicants and ultimately make the best selection.

But in many cases, this requires candidates to do [00:01:40] duplicate work. If not triplicate work, entering the same information into multiple systems causing friction frustration, and ultimately less qualified candidates. [00:01:50] It's really a lose lose, and Alex team has solved for this problem. And in the discussion we learn how though, perhaps more importantly, [00:02:00] we learn why there are many positive consequences of automation.

It frees up time for people. It provides a better [00:02:10] candidate experience. And as I mentioned earlier, leads to more qualified candidates period, though it was Alex's view on the social issues. [00:02:20] Transparency equity and inclusion that really brought home the value of job sync and what he's doing there for me.

Now, I'll be honest. I'm guilty of looking [00:02:30] at tech through utility lens in some times with a healthy dose of pessimism. But speaking of Alex gave me a greater [00:02:40] appreciation for the people behind the tech and how they're using their solutions to drive real goodness world. And it filled me with a ton of optimism for our shared future.

It was [00:02:50] a great chat. So without further ado, Alex Murphy. Hello, Alex, how are you doing today? I'm 

Guest 1: [00:02:56] doing well. 

Matt: [00:02:56] How are you? I'm doing really, really well. Thanks for asking. I'm looking forward to having [00:03:00] this conversation with you today. Uh, jobs sync has been an organization that had on my radar for quite some time.

So before we get into the nitty-gritty of our, of our chat, perhaps catch up our audience on a bit [00:03:10] of boat, you and, uh, Johnson. 

Guest 1: [00:03:12] Awesome. Well, first off, thanks for having me. I appreciate the opportunity to be able to. To talk about what we're doing with, we think we're, we're working on something that's kind [00:03:20] of interesting and has a lot of application around the, around the ecosystem.

Yeah. Catch you up. So, uh, job sync, we started as a joint venture [00:03:30] in 2019 and brought together two businesses. One that I had started called job rapper, uh, which is a job management system and, um, rethink [00:03:40] data, uh, which is focused on delivering applications from job boards. To create a, uh, an integration platform to help companies get the most [00:03:50] bang for their buck from their job, advertising help job boards, get the attribution that they, they are looking for, uh, for their customers, and [00:04:00] really ultimately drive significantly better experiences for everybody involved in recruitment, uh, from the recruiter to the candidate experience, to the [00:04:10] hiring manager, and then everybody else.

Uh, as well, a little bit about me and my background, kind of how we got it started 20 years ago. I was, I was a co-founder of [00:04:20] job.com. I'll say version one, not the job that com that exist today. And, uh, worked there for a number of years, was that beyond.com, which became next. [00:04:30] And, uh, and so I had a lot of job board operator experience.

And from that perspective, saw a, a material reduction [00:04:40] in our ability to generate applicants for our customers, uh, caused by a fractured and, uh, diverse ecosystem of [00:04:50] various hiring systems. And, uh, John Bell, who's the co-founder of job sync and, um, started to rethink data back in 2012. [00:05:00] His background was as a, um, as a CEO and operator and founder of box with technologies.

And so the same thing and, and John's position actually [00:05:10] was, was even more, uh, perfect. If you will, to see the problem. Boxwood was running job board software for associations and [00:05:20] saw the year conversion rates for applicants. Drop dramatically from call it 2002, 2003 to 2010. [00:05:30] Uh, and the reason that he derived was because of this experience that candidates were having as they went to ATS to apply because there's ATS is, were being built [00:05:40] for recruiters and the application workflow.

On the recruiter side, not for applying to jobs. And so he started this business briefing data with [00:05:50] that interest in mind and, uh, and we married them up. Uh, like I said, a couple of years ago. So we've, it's been a great journey and a lot of fun. We've brought on a lot of great [00:06:00] customers that are really changing outcomes for their business.

Matt: [00:06:03] It's a cool story. And it's a topic that I'm really passionate about because I've been saying this for, I don't know, [00:06:10] almost 15 years myself. So I'm glad you articulated it this way. That traditional applicant tracking systems did not in any way favor the candidate [00:06:20] experience. It was meant as a mechanism to make.

Things more efficient for recruiters. Um, obviously some benefits around sifting through high volume [00:06:30] applications, but it missed the boat in a lot of different areas. So I'm not surprised to hear that you found. The similar experiences from your side of the fence and that [00:06:40] there was an opportunity to, if you will enhance the candidate experience, but at the same time, provide a better quality product for the recruiter, because I couldn't help, but think [00:06:50] that in the spirit of becoming more efficient, a lot of great candidates, a lot of great opportunities for talent were falling through the cracks.

Guest 1: [00:06:58] Yeah. So [00:07:00] it's perhaps. Well, it is very interesting to see how that's evolved over the last, let's say five or six years, because as the unemployment rate dropped [00:07:10] and the need to find new sources of talent expanded, right? This, this, uh, issue of supply and demand, what ended up [00:07:20] happening is that while the ATS was created to have better processes for recruiters, the inability to actually get applicants to convert.

Right where [00:07:30] literally 5% of the people that start the application process convert on the whole meaning 19 out of 20 dropout, it pushed [00:07:40] recruiters to go find different ways to find. Candidates. And from the job board side, job board operators came in with a solution, [00:07:50] which was the quick apply or the one-click apply or the easiest by whatever your, however you want to call it.

Uh, indeed. Cause it indeed apply as your recruiter calls at sip apply. [00:08:00] There's a LinkedIn apply there's in Australia. There seek applies. Everybody has their way of articulating this quick apply function and. If there [00:08:10] isn't an integration that connects the job board to the ATS, the way the applicant information is delivered to the recruiter is by [00:08:20] email.

And so another one of our co-founders Amy or VP of marketing, she and I would talk a lot about in the early days in particular. Where is the greatest source of value that [00:08:30] we derive. And she had her finger squarely on the middle of the problem by saying we help recruiters get applicants and their, and their application [00:08:40] data out of email and into the ATS.

And, uh, and so that helps recruiters spend their time [00:08:50] recruiting rather than spending their time doing administrative work, copying and pasting. And, and managing everything out of their inbox, 

Matt: [00:08:59] which is [00:09:00] such, you know, it, it sounds like a very, uh, I know having spent time in that space, that it's such a fundamental shift given the volume of candidates that they're meeting.

And when you think about the [00:09:10] value proposition of a recruiter, Inherently their value is in building relationships. It's in tapping into their network, tapping into talent pools to find the right fit [00:09:20] for an organization for a role for a team, for a leader. And the more time that they spend doing that in, you would assume that the [00:09:30] quality of candidate would be better, um, which would give the organization more people to choose from.

And the less time that they spend doing administration, you. Allocate that work [00:09:40] to in your case technology, which in a lot of cases probably does the work better. So he does the work faster and at the same time provides a more [00:09:50] seamless candidate experience because I can imagine that for many recruiters, there was this push pull between how much time they're spending building relationships and speaking with candidates and how much time they ever spend doing administration, [00:10:00] which would inevitably affect the candidate 

Guest 1: [00:10:01] experience.

It's as it's as though you're literally sitting in our meetings, talking about how we word Smith. The various ways that we, we try to [00:10:10] approach the market, you know, recruiters, as you said, should be building relationships and that's done through engagement and it's not done through Microsoft Excel. And it's just [00:10:20] remarkable how many recruiters have become fantastic at Excel?

Right? I mean, the number of recruiters that we've met. Uh, met with over the last [00:10:30] many months that that are proficient with D lookups and pivot tables and merging together. This spreadsheet from one source and another spreadsheet for another, uh, to do [00:10:40] their daily tasks yet they still spend a remarkable amount of their time in administration work, not in, not in people work.

[00:10:50] And, uh, it is a real loss setting for companies. And. I think the, the most recent 12 months period, right? The pandemic, the work remote, [00:11:00] the dislocation, certainly many layoffs have forced even more administration onto these recruiters. And they have an even greater need for [00:11:10] finding tools and solutions that can help facilitate removal of that, that burden from their day to day so that they can go spend time, uh, people [00:11:20] applying to their jobs.

And develop those relationships 

Matt: [00:11:23] and you hit on a really key point, which is over the last 12 months, those relationships become [00:11:30] really essential more so than before, because you're obviously working within different constraints. You have, you know, in the traditional environment, we're trying [00:11:40] to pair a candidate with an opportunity and it's a relatively consistent story.

Whether it's company a or company B. And now we see so many organizations fragmented in terms of their [00:11:50] approach, whether it's their approach to remote work or the tools that they provide to get the job done, or the support and the, the other types of benefits [00:12:00] that they provide to their remote employees.

So. The candidates now, seemingly at the same time as they there's a lot more job insecurity, they've also never [00:12:10] had more options. Um, so it would be incumbent upon organizations to be able to articulate that in a way that it jumps off the page to use a tired analogy, [00:12:20] uh, and the best way to do that is through relationships.

So I'm curious over the last, you know, year or so. What have your clients been saying about that process about, you know, the [00:12:30] candidate selection, the candidate search process and, and you know, how was what you guys are doing really enhancing that. So 

Guest 1: [00:12:37] the, the candidate search process and [00:12:40] just how to find more right.

Is. It's interesting. So first off in the pandemic world, it is a tale of two [00:12:50] worlds, right? There is the world where there is massive unemployment. So this is in categories like hospitality, uh, in [00:13:00] particular is, is really the one that is, is in the gutter. And then there's this entirely different world where there's nowhere near enough supply of [00:13:10] candidates.

And so it's just like, it was pre pandemic. And in terms of how we're trying to help both sides, right? So on the side, [00:13:20] that's where there is, there are not enough employees, right? So warehouse logistics, supply chain, frontline workers, et cetera. The [00:13:30] experience of applying to a job, the experience of searching for a job is one that is even needs to be even faster and more simple.

I'm [00:13:40] on, I'm on indeed or I'm on, on Facebook. And I see a job opening and I want to be able to get my information to them. If I'm a bit of it, if I have [00:13:50] interest, uh, I want to be able to do that in an instant. We like to kind of think about it as like, this is the Amazon of vacation of the [00:14:00] job experience.

So on Amazon, if you're searching for a product you're literally searching across thousands of different retailers that might. Sell that [00:14:10] product through the Amazon platform. If you're on Facebook and you're looking at a job there, that job posting may come from obviously many different employers, but you don't want to [00:14:20] leave Facebook to go apply.

You want to be able to apply right there from Facebook, using your profile. A couple of quick answers to some screening questions in a way you go. [00:14:30] And we help employers that are trying to figure out how to find those people with the least amount of friction. Take their job posting from their ATS, [00:14:40] get it into Facebook, get it into indeed, get it into ZipRecruiter, et cetera, along with the application of including all the screening questions, have [00:14:50] everything answered on the job site and then the candidate can complete it in a fraction of the time.

And then the applicant information is delivered [00:15:00] into the ATS. The recruiter gets it and can work with the workflow that they have. Just as though that person had applied on their ATS, but instead they did it on the [00:15:10] job site in a way they go, they can start recruiting and engaging with them in real time and have an immediate response.

What we've learned over the last, [00:15:20] I'll say in particular, the last eight months is that it's not even just about getting the applicant information from the job site into the ATS, but it's also [00:15:30] bringing together. All of the other hiring systems that that company might use. So the communication platform, the, uh, so companies [00:15:40] like pivot CX, uh, the assessment tool, the video, uh, video ads, et cetera, all these various tools that might be part of the process [00:15:50] of engaging with and selecting and speaking with that candidate, all the data between these systems needs to all be in sync with each other.

[00:16:00] All in real time. And so that's, that's been a neat thing to observe, to get pulled into and to, to help companies figure out. [00:16:10] Even further improve through call it inter system automation, inner system operability, uh, to help facilitate [00:16:20] those, um, those data connections that, that make sure that everything is up to date.

And again, just kind of, re-emphasize the point about enabling that [00:16:30] recruiter to be. More responsive more, um, with each of their candidates in 

Matt: [00:16:35] real-time, as they apply. Imagine that in addition to the benefits of [00:16:40] having that inner system connectivity, and a lot of people listen to this podcast are familiar with the term API APIs, but having those interfaces between systems, yes, there's an [00:16:50] efficiency game, but there's also a significant gain in terms of the quality and the depth and the breadth of the data that you're sitting on as well.

And I can imagine that would have significant benefits for recruiters and organizations. [00:17:00] There, 

Guest 1: [00:17:00] there's no doubt about it. Right? So those, those one click quick applies that go to an email, tend to really just have a couple data points and no call it [00:17:10] structure to the data. You get it into your ATS. You've got an email address.

And inevitably time stops you from filling out the rest of the information and [00:17:20] populating it with things like, you know, their first name and their last name and the proper fields on the first pass until they're a little further down the funnel. So you just get much better data integrity. [00:17:30] One of the other major benefits of using APIs and integrations is you get absolutely accurate data.

Right. [00:17:40] So there are many companies spending lots and lots of money on their advertising, uh, to drive more candidates, uh, into their apply process. [00:17:50] And the click-based advertising attribution using cookies is not exact, it's not [00:18:00] comprehensive. And so a lot of the candidates and applicants that you push through your, your hiring system might be attributed.

To the wrong source or to no [00:18:10] source at all. And so you don't know if you're spending more money than you should or less money than you should. But if you have the API integration, you have absolute knowledge that this [00:18:20] is the exact source that this candidate came from. So your data integrities, and as you put it.

Is much, much higher and you have more information that can be [00:18:30] shared along the way, which then helps with any type of refinements and improvement that you might want to make. Based on the analysis that you do at the end of the, at the end of the process that [00:18:40] you will in a post-mortem on, uh, on which, which sources of applicants are performing better than another, as an example.

Matt: [00:18:49] Hey [00:18:50] everyone. Hi, it's Matt here. I hope you're enjoying the show before we continue. I wanted to give a quick shout out to one of our sponsors. Benji. The future of work is [00:19:00] today and Matt Parsons and the team at Benji have figured out a really cool hands-on learning solution that you need to be considering as you [00:19:10] transition your organizational learning and team building and engagement online.

Now I spend several hours a day myself on video platforms. [00:19:20] So whether it's zoom or Skype or go to meeting, they're great. They allow me to interact with people and see them in all parts of the world, though. If you're [00:19:30] like me, once those calls go on a bit too long, I start to get a little bit. Distracted.

And it's not too long before I'm reaching for my smartphone or opening up another tab on my [00:19:40] laptop that doesn't happen with Benji. They have a catalog of interactive team exercises that makes it really easy for organizations and [00:19:50] individual consultants to develop engaging solutions at any scale. And I'll be honest, I've been so impressed with the tool myself, that we're actually looking at using [00:20:00] Benji to power our virtual workshops with client facing products.

So I'm actually working right now with Matt one-on-one to develop a journey mapping exercise, so we can take clients [00:20:10] through the employee experience and aluminate thousands of dollars and hours of inefficiencies that organizations tend to have in their onboarding and hiring [00:20:20] processes. It's a great tool.

And because you are a listener of the thinking inside the box podcast, you're going to get a special benefit as well. I've talked to Matt. [00:20:30] He wants to give as many people as possible access to this tool so they can make online learning more engaging and you can do so as well by using the discount code bento 20.

So if you [00:20:40] log on to the. Benji website, which is my benji.com and you're as impressed with the solution. As I am, then enter the code in Benji 20 and you'll [00:20:50] receive 20% off your purchase. And with that being said, we'll return back to regular programming. Leopard another efficiency in this time [00:21:00] efficiency in the term of, of spending.

Um, we've talked a lot Alex about efficiencies and it's clear that technology, um, you know, the reason I'm passionate about this [00:21:10] topic is that. In the traditionalist view, technology was the antithesis of human connection. And I think that we've put that argument to rest on a number of occasions on [00:21:20] this podcast.

That to your earlier point, if you pair the right types of activities too. Machines and technology and the right types of activities to [00:21:30] people that you actually get a better candidate experience. And we've drawn the analogy of the transition from bank tellers to ATM's um, the shifting market requirements in terms of [00:21:40] consumers, many consumers nowadays appreciate a degree of automation, whether it's chat bots because of the enhanced levels of service and the 24 seven nature of that operation versus traditional business hours.

[00:21:50] So we've, we've had that conversation in a lot of cases, but one topic that. We haven't talked a lot about that. I'm eager to get with you on, and in particular is, [00:22:00] you know, in the context of applicant tracking systems, a common narrative that has spin up in the last five to seven years is concern our concerns around diversity and inclusion, and that when [00:22:10] you're applying for positions or you're going through a job selection process, That if you're relying upon machines or algorithms or applicant tracking systems to [00:22:20] profile certain candidates or shortlists or certain candidates that you may be either explicitly or implicitly introducing bias into your process and [00:22:30] not providing equal opportunities to people for, for your organization.

And I'm curious about your thoughts about diversity and inclusion in the context of this technology, [00:22:40] and maybe how you approach 

Guest 1: [00:22:40] that. Awesome. So I think there are a lot of things there there's, there are a lot of things that are built with an intention and they [00:22:50] serve that intention, but they always come with some, some set of unintended consequences.

Sometimes there's consequences are good. Sometimes they're not so good. [00:23:00] Uh, I think there's just a ton of ton of dialogue about AI and other technologies that have, let's say introduced negative [00:23:10] consequences around unintended bias being replicated, uh, or if you are, if you're taking the status quo and you're trying to do more of it, you're just [00:23:20] amplifying the existing, the pre-existing biases that are present.

Tools that provide for integrations inherently, [00:23:30] reducing, let's say the technological friction that exists in the marketplace. So let me give you a really specific [00:23:40] example of what I mean there. If I start my job search on the acne job board, and I find a job that I'm interested in, I click [00:23:50] apply and it takes me off to the corporate career site.

My browser has to load a new page. And, uh, my computer has to process this new, [00:24:00] uh, the new, the skin, the template that's around that page and all of the images that come in. And if I have slower bandwidth, let's say, [00:24:10] uh, or if I'm on only a mobile device, because I don't have a computer, it takes longer for that page to load.

And it takes that [00:24:20] time, uh, increases the likelihood that I might drop off. And if I have to go from that corporate career site to a CRM signup, join the talent community, and then I have to [00:24:30] then make it to the ATS. And then I have to get through that job description. Again, this is at least the third time that I've read the job description.

And then I click apply again and I'm presented with a [00:24:40] login form and below the fold on my mobile device, it says, don't have an account yet. Question Mark. And it's a hyperlink in the text [00:24:50] form, no call to action. I'm presented with this login form. It's taken me three minutes to get there. What happens to that candidate in that, in that journey [00:25:00] more often than not more than 95% of the time is they drop off.

Compare that to somebody on a large screen, super high [00:25:10] speed internet. At their desk and they're able to blow through that process much more quickly. What ends up happening is the technology is filtering out [00:25:20] people that don't have access to the best technologies. These tend to be people that are more likely to be of color, that they may tend to be people [00:25:30] that are lower income there.

They tend to be the people that have structural biases stack up against them in the first place. If instead the candidate could have [00:25:40] applied on the original site, the Acme jobs website, where they were, then the process is much more equal. They're much less likely to drop out. And as a recruiter, [00:25:50] you are much more likely to have a candidate slate that is representative of the population of potential candidates.

Then one that [00:26:00] is biased towards, uh, against people. You know, if you will, that are, that are in protected classes, 

Matt: [00:26:06] which I think is going to be increasingly an area of emphasis. [00:26:10] And it's for those who maybe don't understand the deeper technology, I think you've, you've [00:26:20] articulated it. Well, I think that. It'd be rare to find a technology that intentionally bakes bias into its model, but you're right.

[00:26:30] In a lot of cases, there are second and third degree effects of every action that you take and those actions can have consequences. And the fact that we are now aware of them [00:26:40] gives us an opportunity to address them and hopefully to make things more. Yeah, yeah. 

Guest 1: [00:26:44] Yeah. I was just gonna, I was going to inject me a common thing that we talk about.

Internally, um, [00:26:50] is, you know, no recruiter wakes up in the morning and, you know, rubs their hands together and says, all right, I'm going to go make a really crappy candidate experience. [00:27:00] Uh, I don't think that anybody's waking up and saying, all right, I'm going to go make sure that I'm biased against everybody that.

But I don't want to get here. It's more about it's to your, to what you're [00:27:10] saying. It's really about understanding the things that happen unintentionally and removing those. And then look around and say again, how do I identify other things that are happening [00:27:20] unintentionally and get rid of them as well?

Exactly. 

Matt: [00:27:22] And it's that? There, there is no, you know, Makaveli and to your point, attempt around making the [00:27:30] candidate experience anything other than beneficial. And you've raised an interesting point earlier in the conversation around human interest. And when you are juggling [00:27:40] administration and. Dozens of requisitions.

In some cases it's natural that you would default to the path of most efficiency, the path that would [00:27:50] allow you to get your targets met and however, your incentivized within your particular compensation structure, whether it's through placement, whether it's, you know, um, certain [00:28:00] KPIs you're going to naturally gravitate towards achieving those.

Um, because that's just how human beings work. We, we work towards incentives. That's why they start structured that way. [00:28:10] And I, I see a future whereby. We have the ability with technology to be more intentional with a human centric approach that may not. Mitigate all [00:28:20] of the risks, but certainly mitigates the ones that are foreseeable for us and to your earlier point, at least freeze them time so that we have extra layers of care and [00:28:30] concern from humans in this process that hopefully will future errors because, you know, we, we have to get, we have to graduate past this.

Model [00:28:40] of people being distilled down to an algorithm. Um, there are many types of candidates. It may not fit traditional, um, talent profiles [00:28:50] that can provide significant value in organizations. And I think about startup culture in particular startup culture is the aggregation of people with a number of unique skillsets, um, that may not fit [00:29:00] into any one particular mold, but are absolutely essential when you're building and scaling an organization.

So I'm glad to hear you guys are spending time thinking about that. 

Guest 1: [00:29:08] Yeah, the, um, you know, [00:29:10] you just, you touched on a couple of things there around like intentionality and, you know, the, the long arc here I think is an all of the right directions, but it's, if we are taking our [00:29:20] moments and time to stop and think and consider.

What the impacts are, uh, then, then we're missing, we're missing the opportunities along the way to, to just further [00:29:30] improve. It's all about evolving and iterating the process, uh, and making it more and more transparent and open I think is, is kind of [00:29:40] key to making that happen. One other thing you touched on KPIs too, at the end of the day, like there's a, there's a common phrase.

That is what gets measured gets done, [00:29:50] right. Or it's gets measured, gets managed. And, you know, I think that there's, there's a big movement right now around the transparency around [00:30:00] human capital metrics, what the human capital ROI is, and these, these types of metrics that are, you know, [00:30:10] starting to debt, to show for companies that.

Whether it's in diversity that, you know, a more diverse workforce is higher performing, um, a, a company [00:30:20] that, that invest in long-term human capital programs is going to have a higher performance. You know, these, these metrics are just going to drive greater and greater [00:30:30] incentive to use your word. To go do more, more positive things.

And the same in the same elk can further improve as we go forward. 

Matt: [00:30:39] Absolutely. [00:30:40] And I think that another area that I think has come up recently, at least in the chats I've been having with senior HR leaders has been this idea around transparency and a [00:30:50] renewed focus on transparency in a number of different areas, whether it is in the.

Candidate experience, uh, in advertising this idea [00:31:00] that, you know, information should be accessible to more people. I'm curious what role transparency plays in kind of your thinking as you, as you consider the [00:31:10] product roadmap of what you're working on or even just your philosophy? 

Guest 1: [00:31:13] Well, you know, there's a, from a philosophical point of view in our company, I'll just [00:31:20] leave it at us as an example.

If others don't know what's on. Each other's mind, right. If we don't all know what's on each other's minds or what we're working on, [00:31:30] then that limits our ability to contribute. It limits everybody else's ability to contribute. And so just from a philosophical point of view about why, why [00:31:40] transparency's a hyper-relevant thing.

Uh, and I would say that it's not just about transparency, allowing others to see in, but also openness to say, this is what I'm doing. [00:31:50] I think they're kind of two part, two ends of the same pipe is. Uh, as it could be put, it is around collaboration and an effective [00:32:00] communication like that without it it's impossible, meaning that to have effective collaboration and effective communication.

It's impossible. When we think about more broadly [00:32:10] in marketplace, around transparency, we've gone down a path of trying to understand who are the stakeholders and who are our customers. And at the end of the day, [00:32:20] You know, the employers, our customer, and what we will, we will share openly is best practices related to engaging and talking about [00:32:30] what's working for others.

We started. A a weekly round table series last summer. And, uh, it's hosted by [00:32:40] our VP marketing, Amy. And it is a co-learning experience is the way that she describes it. Then I think it's a brilliant way of describing it because what we're doing is [00:32:50] creating an environment for practitioners, people that in the space to come in and talk about.

Different hot topics of the day, whether that's a DEI [00:33:00] topic or an automation or sources of recruiting, different types of candidates, uh, and then allow everybody to have an open dialogue [00:33:10] and allow our guests to talk about what they're doing in a transparent way has been an enabler. I think of. Getting best practices into place [00:33:20] in the marketplace, 

Matt: [00:33:21] which frankly is never been more.

It, you know, I, I, since about this time, last year, when things really [00:33:30] started to go sideways in terms of the global pandemic, and then obviously the corresponding economic crisis, and just say nothing of the social unrest, that's been the backdrop of a lot of it. It's been [00:33:40] interesting, the amount of knowledge sharing that's been necessary as things have evolved so quickly.

And. Yeah. I mean, it started in January, February, but [00:33:50] questions around office closures and health and safety protocols, and quickly evolved into conversations around technology procurement and how to tool your staff. And now we're getting to a [00:34:00] place where the conversation is around a lot to do with hybrid work.

And how do we create workplaces where people can seamlessly integrate between a digital and a physical workspace. It's been an interesting [00:34:10] time for business executives, and I think that. It's been a, you know, without tools like networking tools, um, without tools [00:34:20] like your round tables, um, it would be so much more difficult for people to share their best practices because we're all going through similar challenges.

[00:34:30] And, you know, we've hosted ourselves a series of, uh, focus groups at bento, HR, where we've met with well over a hundred senior level HR executives since about. [00:34:40] October of last year. And it's funny, you know, whether the company is 15 people and they're based in advertising or they're 80,000 people in financial services, the problems are similar and the [00:34:50] problems are, you know, obviously nuanced based on your segments and your size and your industry.

But. The, the challenges around having to shift from the way we've [00:35:00] traditionally done things into a new world where we very much have a blank canvas. And there really isn't a lot of examples to point to, to say, this is the way forward. [00:35:10] Um, the ability to share what's working, uh, where people are having challenges.

And if nothing else just to commiserate over shared experiences, uh, has certainly been invaluable for the people that [00:35:20] I've spoken with. And, uh, and I'm curious, what's been some of the feedback from folks who've been able to join your round tables. Well, I think 

Guest 1: [00:35:25] the feedback is, I mean, it is over overwhelmingly positive for [00:35:30] everything you just said.

I would say, you know, one of the things that I wouldn't, I wouldn't go so far as to say, you know, it's a benefit of, of, of COVID or a [00:35:40] positive that the COVID has been a positive thing in the law and the least clearly it's not, but it's an opportunity to re-examine norms. Um, and one [00:35:50] of them is I think these, these meetings that are.

Recurring in nature, like, like this, the, one of the coolest things about that we've experienced on our, [00:36:00] in our round table sessions is getting somebody in the Netherlands, in the UK and in California, and then every people in between [00:36:10] all into a group discussion, talking about the dynamics that are affecting everybody across all of these different regions at the same time, on a recurring basis, you know, we [00:36:20] have, we have all gone to conferences.

Where you travel and you're there, you're there, uh, for a moments time, but then you kind of come in and you go [00:36:30] and you don't really get the context of learning together over time, which I think has been a really interesting thing that has changed in it. It's an [00:36:40] experience that you couldn't have in the physical environment, because there's no way to bring people together from.

Let's say 10 to 12 hours of time zone [00:36:50] difference on a weekly basis, right? It's just logistically not practical. Uh, that's been, that's been really cool. And then above [00:37:00] and beyond that, it's been a, we're all stuck. Just about all of us anyway, are stuck in our, in our homes or our apartments. [00:37:10] And, uh, and it's really difficult to get the social interaction that we, we all need.

And I think that these, that the technologies have [00:37:20] enabled a social interaction, uh, to talk about difficult subjects in a way that, that if it had not been there would have [00:37:30] been, would have made things even worse. Uh, from a mental health perspective, in my 

Matt: [00:37:34] opinion, I couldn't do it a few more. And I certainly have leaned a lot upon my network [00:37:40] of fellow leaders across function and across discipline, um, and made new relationships over the course of the last year, because you know, perhaps now having a [00:37:50] degree of a shared experience, it, it binds people together and I've been really.

Impressed to be honest, um, with the amount of collaboration, um, with the amount [00:38:00] of people willing to share of themselves and to exchange best practices. Um, whereas maybe traditionally they would have been more guarded with competition. It's been a [00:38:10] really nice shift and, um, I'm not surprised to hear that you've had that success.

And I think you're spot on having that, that continuity of conversation and that, that [00:38:20] relationship with a community that builds over time only enhances. That experience for everybody involved as they, you know, contribute a bit of themselves to a broader [00:38:30] purpose. And I think it's, I think it's, you know, kudos to you guys for recognizing that space because.

You know, in a solutions-based organization like yours, ultimately you're in [00:38:40] service to helping the people around you by whatever means necessary. And that builds strong relationships with the people in your network. It obviously credentializes you within the customers that [00:38:50] you're speaking with or your perspective you're speaking with, but ultimately I think just helps us move towards whatever this new normal looks like, um, which we all will.

Stand to benefit [00:39:00] from whatever that looks like in the future. The sooner we can return to some degree of normalcy, the sooner we can put, you know, the chapter of 20, 20 behind us, I think we're all. Yeah. I 

Guest 1: [00:39:09] mean, as [00:39:10] we're in the, I think this is like the 58th or 59th week of 2020, it would be nice to put it behind us for sure.

We have had the honor of being [00:39:20] recognized by an analysts from nucleus research on an, on a number, in a number of different ways. And when they, they put us into their talent acquisition value matrix, [00:39:30] they, they put us in a quadrant labeled as a facilitator because at the end of the day, what are we doing?

We're facilitating the connections of data [00:39:40] between systems for employers. And so it's a perfect. A perfect label to put on jobs, same, uh, from our technology. And what was interesting [00:39:50] in as a retrospective of, of looking at their assessment of us is, you know, really this round table has been a facilitator.

We've been playing a role of a [00:40:00] facilitator in these conversations. Uh, and so it fits really well. And it's something that we see. Trying to do our best, to be a part of, um, you know, [00:40:10] regardless of what the future holds as it's related to the hybrid or more digital or, or go back to more office environment type of.

Of world that will unfold in [00:40:20] front of us. Who knows how and who knows when, hopefully sooner, rather than on 

Matt: [00:40:24] that point. What does the future hold for Alex and for job sank? What are you looking at in terms of the next [00:40:30] 12, 18 months for yourself? 

Guest 1: [00:40:31] Yeah. Um, we are going to continue to grow our company. So we are, I think we've, we've.

Started as an [00:40:40] effort two years ago, to make sure that we were working on something that was a problem we're solving, which in startup land means, uh, is there somebody out there willing to pay [00:40:50] you to solve this problem? There are plenty of problems out there. People aren't willing to pay to solve has accelerated into being a, uh, in the, in the [00:41:00] fortunate position of having a lot of companies take a great deal of interest in what we're doing in our core.

Product connecting their, [00:41:10] their applicant tracking system and the job sites that they use, uh, to connecting these additional hiring systems. And we really see it as a huge opportunity to help [00:41:20] companies. Just create significantly more value out of the systems that they use to really unlock that value, that potential of those systems, [00:41:30] uh, by helping create these, these automation, this inner system, inter system automation and, and get recruiters, talking to people and, and all [00:41:40] of the benefits that come from that.

What we've, what we've heard from our, our customers is that their number one priority. [00:41:50] Is improving the time to hire. And, you know, at the end of the day, what does that mean? It means instead of having a requisition go open [00:42:00] on the 1st of January and how that person start on the first March to get them there, to be there a week, two weeks, a month earlier that getting [00:42:10] those people on a team and working has a compound interest type of impact.

Because if they start a month earlier, [00:42:20] they will always be a month ahead down the learning curve, working at the company. And the second is improving their cost per hire. And, and we're happy that we can help [00:42:30] facilitate the achievement of both. And then in addition to that, free up a tremendous amount of the administrative time that the recruiters are experiencing.

So. [00:42:40] A little bit of, uh, being able to help improve the candidate experience and the recruiter experience. And we're just going to continue to try to refine the way that we do [00:42:50] that. Make it easier for recruiters to see that time savings. Make it easier for companies to be able to get a full slate of candidates and hire 

Matt: [00:42:58] faster.

The timing [00:43:00] couldn't be better for that. Alex, just thank you so much for your time today. It's a topic that I've been wanting to dig into for a while. Um, I think we went a lot of cool places over the course of the last 40 plus minutes. Um, [00:43:10] and looking for, to continuing this chat offline, I think you guys are onto something with respect to the solution.

And I think that. You know, organizations when they become aware of what you guys are doing are going to see the value that [00:43:20] you no longer have to trade-off between the candidate experience and the recruiters, you know, efficiencies. You really can have it both with some intentionality in it and, uh, you know, Bravo for what you've done to this point.

[00:43:30] I'm looking forward to keeping this chat going. 

Guest 1: [00:43:31] Awesome. Thanks, Matt. Thanks for your time

[00:43:40] Matt: [00:43:40] at bento HR, we enable your HR strategy with custom HR technology, procurement implementations, and integrations. Deliberate your team from administration [00:43:50] enhance their productivity and experience to position them at the center of your organization's transformation. Where they belong with experience as an HR executive [00:44:00] myself, I have a real appreciation of the challenges facing today's HR leaders.

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