How a Pandemic Affects Gender Equality - Romy Newman

Romy is highly motivated to bring better performance and productivity to our companies and our country by making the workplace work better for women. As the Co-founder and President of Fairygodboss, Romy leads a business with the mission to improve the workplace for women everywhere. Before venturing into the crazy world of entrepreneurship, Romy ran digital advertising sales and operations at The Wall Street Journal, and also worked in marketing at Google and Estee Lauder. 

Romy studied American studies, literature and art at Yale and many more practical things at the Kellogg School of Management at North-western. Romy is a frequent speaker and contributor to Fortune, Huffington Post, and Inc. She is a proud mother of two, wife to a very supportive husband, devoted yogi and crossword puzzle lover. 

We had a wide-ranging discussion that included Fairygodboss’ origin story, and how the pandemic has affected gender equality; highlighting the mass exodus of women from the workforce. 

It was a really enjoyable, timely discussion and we hope you enjoy it.

Romy Newman

Romy Newman is Co-founder and President of Fairygodboss, a business with the mission to improve the workplace for women everywhere. Before venturing into the crazy world of entrepreneurship, Romy ran digital advertising sales and operations at The Wall Street Journal, and also worked in marketing at Google and Estee Lauder. Romy studied American studies, literature and art at Yale and many more practical things at the Kellogg School of Management at North-western. 

Romy is a frequent speaker and contributor to Fortune, Huffington Post, and Inc. She is a proud mother of two, wife to a very supportive husband, devoted yogi and crossword puzzle lover. Romy is highly motivated to bring better performance and productivity to our companies and our country by making the workplace work better for women.

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Thinking Inside the Box

Constraints drive innovation. Each week we’ll tackle the most complex issues related to work & culture.

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Matt Burns

Matt Burns is an award-winning executive, social entrepreneur and speaker. He believes in the power of community, simplicity & technology.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Guest 1: [00:00:00] Now that so many companies are actively trying to recruit more women, which we think is fabulous. What we are trying to [00:00:10] inform companies about is that they need to take a different approach than the one they've traditionally taken the approach they've been using yields. [00:00:20] Uh, applicants that skew more male, right?

Especially in core areas like technology and finance

[00:00:30] Matt: [00:00:36] strain, strive innovation. Hey everyone. [00:00:40] It's Matt here for another episode of thinking inside the box, a show where we discuss complex issues related to work and culture. If you're interested in checking out our. [00:00:50] Their content. You can find us at bento, hr.com, wherever you find your favorite podcasts by searching, thinking inside the box.

And now in virtual [00:01:00] reality, each Thursday at 5:00 PM Pacific standard time in Altspace VR. In today's episode, I chat with Romy Newman, the [00:01:10] co-founder and president of fairy God boss, largest online career community for women. And fairy God boss has helped millions of women get career [00:01:20] advice, job reviews, and support working with top employers like Apple bank of America, Salesforce and others who care deeply about gender equality.

[00:01:30] And the topic of gender equality has taken on increased importance against the backdrop of this pandemic, recent projections by McKinsey and Oxford economics [00:01:40] estimate that employment for women may not recover to pre pandemic levels until 2020 for two full years after a recovery for men. [00:01:50] And there's a very real danger that female labor force participation could face its steepest sustained decline since world war II.

So it's clear, [00:02:00] we have a problem and Romy and her team at fairy, God boss are determined to do their part to solve it. And this was a central theme over the course of our [00:02:10] nearly 40 minute conversation and near the end of our chat Romy made a really interesting point that I think bears repeating diversity, [00:02:20] equity, inclusion, belonging.

They're not buzzwords, and they're not meant to be poster fodder. It's just really good business and [00:02:30] the topic of DEI B, isn't a women's issue. It's a broader societal issue. And I'm so grateful to Romy for taking time from her busy [00:02:40] schedule to join me and shine a brighter spotlight on such important issues.

So without further ado, Romy Newman. Hello, Romy. How are you 

[00:02:50] Guest 1: [00:02:49] doing today? Hi, thanks for having me on the show.  

Matt: [00:02:53] I saw this invite pop into my calendar recently, and I was really excited for us to connect. I've heard great things about [00:03:00] you and your organization fairy God boss. So maybe let's just start there.

Who's Romy Newman. And what's your 

Guest 1: [00:03:06] story? That's so nice. So, uh, I, I, I [00:03:10] often say that I am probably the most corporate startup founder. You will find. I have 20 years of experience working in what I would call corporate America. I worked at Estee [00:03:20] Lauder. I worked at Google and I worked, um, in my last stint for many years at the wall street journal, uh, at the wall street journal, I had many different roles, but eventually I was [00:03:30] responsible for all the digital advertising revenue on their digital products.

So wsj.com MarketWatch. Dot com and barrons.com. I also, I live in New York [00:03:40] city. I have a very supportive husband and two kids who are nine and seven and a cat. And, um, you know, I feel [00:03:50] really fortunate to have had the amazing opportunity to found Fairygodboss fairy. God boss is the largest career community for women.

We were about five [00:04:00] years old. Uh, my co-founder George Georgine and I were both executives at Dow Jones, which is the parent company of the wall street journal. [00:04:10] And what happened was that my co-founder unexpectedly lost her job in a big management shakeup. And when it happened, she was two months pregnant.

[00:04:20] So she quickly and unexpectedly became a job seeker and she went online. She did what a lot of job seekers do. Do. [00:04:30] She went online to go find out what kind of experiences employees were having at various companies. But she had very specific things. She was trying to understand. She wanted to [00:04:40] understand how women were experiencing these companies.

Did they feel they were beating, being treated fairly? Do they feel they had equal access to promotion? [00:04:50] Did they feel the company had good benefits in place for women? Did they feel women? Did you feel, feel women really achieve the management levels? Um, [00:05:00] and to try to research that information online and she went to Glassdoor and she went to LinkedIn, she went to indeed, none of them had that set [00:05:10] of information.

So she said, I see a real opportunity to. Build a platform that will help, not just me, but the 73 million women in America who worked, um, to [00:05:20] help them have access to this kind of information about companies that they may work at. So she had this idea and she approached me. She wanted a co-founder who could help with monetization.

[00:05:30] And I took a big unexpected leap and it has been so exciting and exhilarating. In five years, [00:05:40] we've grown from like working in our apartment to, we have over 50 people. And, um, we've raised venture capital. We have [00:05:50] about 200 customers and, uh, for awhile we had an office and now because of COVID, we work in our permanent again, full circle.

But, um, really exciting and it's been [00:06:00] a great experience. 

Matt: [00:06:01] I've come full circle. It's um, and it also a great story. I mean, you clearly, you identified an opportunity in the market that was completely underserved [00:06:10] and it's, it's an opportunity that I think a lot of people who have listened to this podcast can appreciate, because if you haven't had the experience of looking for a job certainly recently, but [00:06:20] given some of the constraints that you mentioned, it can be a very unforgiving place.

Yeah, 

Guest 1: [00:06:24] that's right. And, and I think. What we've identified is that [00:06:30] women job seekers actually behave differently than men. And I think that, you know, I, these are huge sweeping generalizations, but what we're finding is [00:06:40] that women job seekers are not as proactive. We know that there is such a thing as the confidence gap, which means that women only apply to jobs when they meet a hundred percent of the [00:06:50] criteria.

Whereas men will apply if they meet like 50 or 60% of the criteria. So now, now that so many companies are actively [00:07:00] trying to recruit more women, which we think is fabulous. What we are trying to inform companies about is that they need to take a different approach than the one [00:07:10] they've traditionally taken the approach they've been using yields.

Uh, applicants that skew more male, right? Especially in core areas like technology and [00:07:20] finance. And so they need to, to change their approach. They need to modify their content, their distribution, where are they? How are they reaching [00:07:30] candidates in order to appeal? Uh, to appeal to women and to satisfy their information needs much like the experience that my co-founder 

had.

Matt: [00:07:38] Well, and it speaks to the [00:07:40] necessity to be proactive in a number of different areas. And when I think about some of the challenges more recently, you know, in the, in the, if you will, the talent marketplace, I think we both would agree that there's [00:07:50] been a mass Exodus of women who've left the workforce because of the pandemic.

Um, and organizations are scrambling in a lot of cases, too. Retained the high [00:08:00] potential high performing individuals that they have, but also trying to find a way to better connect with people who are maybe looking for opportunities in this very challenging period of time. For 

[00:08:10] Guest 1: [00:08:09] sure. And I think, you know, some of the companies that are standing out and really showing that they are committed to helping retain women and, and not just women, [00:08:20] but caregivers of all kinds companies like PWC that are making strong statements.

In support of workplace flexibility, [00:08:30] adapting the schedule to be much more oriented on performance and metrics. Then on the time, the specific time that you're in an office or [00:08:40] sitting at a desk, you're seeing companies like city where the new CEO, Jane Fraser, who's a woman, um, is announcing zoom free Fridays.

And announcing [00:08:50] that the company will never go back to full in office all the time for all employees. So I think the smartest companies are really [00:09:00] modifying their approach, their relationship to the workplace and what they're expecting of their employees to be much more oriented toward performance. I mean, it's, I have to [00:09:10] say, you know, being in the space for a long time, we know that women, children like me have wanted.

Just more schedule flexibility. And this pandemic [00:09:20] has gone to show, you know, if there's any silver lining it's gone to show that flexibility has not forced us to sacrifice productivity in any way. Um, [00:09:30] and so I hope that moving forward out of this companies can embrace a more flexible. Schedule so that all kinds of caregivers and all kinds of [00:09:40] employees, whether they're caregivers or not can have more control over their schedule.

You know, I have to say something I've realized about myself during this [00:09:50] pandemic. And maybe because I will confess I'm getting a little older is I'm a Mo I'm a morning person, right? Like I just get much more done in the morning. [00:10:00] So I've been working, starting work at like 7:00 AM, but I come to like five o'clock and I'm just tapped.

I don't have much left to give my brain is not at its best at that point. So [00:10:10] kind of being sure to log off and be done by five has helped me do much better work just because of the rhythm, my body. Right. And I think. If we can let everybody [00:10:20] work more around the rhythm of their body, we're going to have much happier and more productive employees 

Matt: [00:10:24] all over.

I completely agree with you. And you're, you're saying things that I think those of us who've been in HR circles for the [00:10:30] better part of at least the 15 years I've been in the profession. I've been saying for quite some time, which is to prioritize outputs as opposed to inputs. And there's lots of great science [00:10:40] behind that.

Whether it's science in the context of, you know, people's circadian rhythms and when they work. Best during the course of the day. Um, you've eliminated some, some systemic [00:10:50] barriers to things like diversity and inclusion, because if we force people to do all it here too. A singular set of principles. Some people will end up feeling that's a good fit.

Others will not feel it's a good fit. [00:11:00] Um, and it's not representative of the complexities that most of us are. Um, most of us had to face prior to the pandemic, but certainly have to face during and post [00:11:10] pandemic. I think about multi-generational households. I think about individuals in less than ideal working circumstances.

Um, you know, th the, the workplace and the world [00:11:20] we've been in has never been more complex. And it seems like at the same time workplaces and their, in their structures and their, their rituals, if you will have been much slower to adapt. So [00:11:30] I agree with you. I think the pandemic has illuminated for us, many of the.

The inconsistencies and then congruencies that were present underneath the surface. Boris, [00:11:40] traditionally we would expect the employees to accommodate these inconsistencies. We've now placed a, more of a shared responsibility on employers. And I I'm optimistic that many of these things will continue because [00:11:50] I do think that if we want to attract the best possible talent and have them do their best work, we're going to have to be a lot more flexible in how that work has [00:12:00] done, uh, while still expecting the highest quality and 

Guest 1: [00:12:02] output.

Absolutely. And one of the most interesting case studies I've actually seen in the last couple months with came out of the UK and it was the [00:12:10] insurers are Eric. Who added very prominently, the words, flexible remote work. One part time to several job descriptions [00:12:20] and they saw, and they were senior. They were managerial level, job descriptions, and they saw a 50% increase in the volume of women applying to these jobs just by adding those [00:12:30] words into the job descriptions.

So it really does matter, especially as, as we're thinking about building candidate slates that are more diverse 

Matt: [00:12:38] and. Uh, I think we've [00:12:40] all come to the realization. You know, some of us must quicker than others is how important it is to have diversity within organizations. I mean, every senior leader [00:12:50] aspires for an organization that's representative internally of its customer base externally.

And now we're in a truly global environment where, you know, if you are a technology company or a [00:13:00] retail business or manufacturer. We're working with people from around the world and have employees in our, in our business, from around the world. And again, to that point, having the [00:13:10] courage to challenge some of these dated rituals, I think goes a long way in helping us kind of advance the conversation around diversity and inclusion.

And I, I'm [00:13:20] curious, you know, as you speak with clients and as you speak with organizations, um, how are they finding the transition? I mean, the pandemic is certainly. Necessitated a large amount [00:13:30] of change, but let's be honest. It was forced change in a lot of cases. Um, you know, what's been the sentiment that you've heard from organizations as they consider a world post.

Guest 1: [00:13:39] Yeah. So, I [00:13:40] mean, I like to say that when we started this company, we went out. Too many large corporations said we have a career community for women and the companies would say, why would [00:13:50] women need their own career community fast forward five years? We never get that question. The world there have been real, see changes in the world in the last five years.

And [00:14:00] I'm really happy to see them. And. I think it is wonderful to know that so many stakeholders are holding [00:14:10] corporations feet to the fire on advancing diversity, whether it's their employees, whether it's their, their directors or their shareholders, whether it's their [00:14:20] customers, you know, whether it's even the exchanges, you've probably seen this thing where NASDAQ will require diversity on the companies that list.

Right. So, so you're seeing more and more [00:14:30] stakeholders. Make diversity, a business imperative where before it may have been sort of performative, right. Co [00:14:40] corporation CEOs have to focus on diversity now, or they can't succeed. 

Matt: [00:14:48] Yes one [00:14:50] it's Matt here, and I hope you're enjoying today's discussion before we continue.

I wanted to make you aware of our latest creative project, HR in VR, [00:15:00] every Thursday at 5:00 PM. Pacific standard time. All connect with technology pioneers, business executives from the world's most iconic brands and [00:15:10] industry thought leaders to discuss the future of immersive technologies. Like virtual reality and their impact on future workplaces.

In partnership with Microsoft [00:15:20] we're broadcasting each episode on LinkedIn live and in front of a live studio audience in Altspace. Joining is easy for LinkedIn users. [00:15:30] Simply follow my account, Matt in VR and stay tuned Thursdays at 5:00 PM. Pacific standard time for the LinkedIn live stream. Or [00:15:40] for a truly immersive live experience, visit alt vr.com to download Altspace on your Mac, PC or VR [00:15:50] headset, and join us live in our studio audience.

There you'll have the chance to ask questions, meet me and our incredible guests and connect with others from the comfort [00:16:00] of your own home. This is the future folks. And I hope to be part of it. And I'll link the details for HR and VR, along with all [00:16:10] other relevant information in the show notes of this podcast.

And now back to our discussion.

Guest 1: [00:16:19] But the [00:16:20] reality is if everyone, I actually, when I've seen the change I've seen is that there's a real desire for it. But the truth is that the path to transformation is [00:16:30] slow and hard. And I do believe that the, a lot of people's intentions are in the right place. And if they could wave a magic wand and become more diverse, they would, but there is no magic [00:16:40] wand.

It is, it's a, it's a big, every corporation is a big ship to turn around. And not only that, uh, prior to the pandemic, uh, the statistic stood out of the world [00:16:50] economic forum that we were. 250 years away from achieving workplace, gender equality globally. And what's tragic is that's where we were before the pandemic.

[00:17:00] The pandemic has set us back even farther. So the exit is of women in the workplace in 2020 in the U S has set us back to 1980s levels of [00:17:10] workforce participation among women in America. So you've got. The reverse that the, the inverse effect of what, what we were all hoping [00:17:20] to see. So. I I think, and I hope that will come out of this is smarter, stronger investments, and I'm happy that [00:17:30] we have a solution that I believe can truly help companies accelerate their path to progress toward diversity.

And I hope there will be many other solutions like ours, um, [00:17:40] because it is going to take a lot of work and a lot of investment, a lot of, a lot of transformation. To, to make that, to, to turn all those big ships around. 

Matt: [00:17:48] So let's spend some time, I'm talking [00:17:50] a bit more about very good boss then, because you have essentially a number of stakeholder groups that you support.

The two predominant ones of course, would be, you know, [00:18:00] applicants for career opportunities and supporting women in their, in their, uh, search for that, but also organizations that are of course our customers, but also are the landing places for [00:18:10] this great talent. You'll how are you guys evolving in terms of your approach?

To working with both of those particular constituencies. 

Guest 1: [00:18:17] Yeah. So when we [00:18:20] launched, we were a free anonymous job, refused for women by women. We basically viewed ourselves as the woman's answer to glass door and [00:18:30] then. As we came to know our users, what we realized was that women in the workplace are looking of course, looking for information when they're actively job [00:18:40] seeking.

But the reality is that most women in the workplace had daily questions or concerns that they don't have anyone to, to share with. So the more [00:18:50] we did user interviews, the more we heard the word isolated over and over. Our users feel isolated. And so what we felt there was a real kind of business and [00:19:00] social mission opportunity to do is create a real, a true community where women could come together around career to support each other, to applaud each other, [00:19:10] to commiserate, to lift each other up.

And so that's what we've evolved. To the heart and soul of our platform now is no longer the job of use though. Of [00:19:20] course, we still have them. It's a community feed where women are talking all throughout the day about things related to work. And I think, [00:19:30] you know, what really differentiates us from everything else that's out there is that our users can participate anonymously.

Because what we found was that the questions [00:19:40] that women had, or, or the topics they want to discuss, they didn't feel comfortable putting their name next to. And, uh, you know, whether it's, they felt they got passed over for promotion or what they [00:19:50] were suddenly let go, or they wanted to leave their job.

These were not. Things, they felt comfortable kind of putting next to their name or their resume or their profile. So we have created this [00:20:00] anonymous forum where women can come together around career and then yes, the way that we monetize and the way that we service the corporate ecosystem is we've [00:20:10] aggregated.

We had 10 million women visit our site last year. We've aggregated all these women and their, their eyeballs. These are women who are ambitious, they're diverse, they're [00:20:20] professional. They care about career. And so they are a great audience for corporates to get in front of, to talk about why they should come work at their company, whether they're active job seekers or [00:20:30] packs of job seekers.

It's. It's often the case that women hadn't considered working at this company, they may have not even known that this company existed. So we're able to [00:20:40] suggest and recommend companies that these women may want to consider applying for jobs at, through our platform. 

Matt: [00:20:48] Curious, I'm sure with all the [00:20:50] success that you've had and build the audience that you have over the course of the five years you've been, you know, had the Fairygodboss established, that organizations were also.

Likely eager for feedback as [00:21:00] they've sought to modernize or evolve their practices to better appeal to a diverse candidate pool. Have you seen examples of that? 

Guest 1: [00:21:08] Definitely. I mean, [00:21:10] so, uh, because we're venture backed, we, we don't really do. Consulting per se, because we didn't find it was a scalable business.

However, what we'd done is build [00:21:20] advisory kind of effort into our customer success team. So for all of our customers, every quarter, when they sit down with us to review their results, we start with a [00:21:30] snapshot of what the latest. Data research information trends are, as it relates to diversity recruiting and employer branding.

[00:21:40] So we're always providing companies with the latest, for example, that Zurich study that I mentioned, where for example, primary research that we've done, that shows [00:21:50] that women are. One and a half times more likely than men to make a decision about where they're working based on the company, stance on diversity and women of color are [00:22:00] twice as likely.

So we're surfacing information like that to help our customers do their job better and have more success. We also are continually [00:22:10] benchmarking our companies against. Industry benchmarks too, so they can understand how they can improve, but certainly the, the core of what we've determined to be [00:22:20] really successful.

Is when companies take a storytelling, storytelling driven approach. Um, we know there's all kinds of research that shows that job descriptions [00:22:30] don't appeal to women the way they're written right now and what we believe. We're not about fixing the job description. We're about creating the narratives, the role model stories, and getting those in [00:22:40] front of prospective employees to help.

Bring to life, the employee experience, we find that it's those stories that really attract and convert potential female applicant. 

[00:22:50] Matt: [00:22:49] I'm, I'm not at all surprised to hear that. And I think the one thing that you guys have done exceptionally well is challenge the status quo and you know, a common narrative that I heard 10 [00:23:00] years ago when diversity inclusion really became a prominent talking point in the organizations that I was working in, uh, was this idea of equity.

And this [00:23:10] idea of equity at seemingly at odds of diversity in a lot of occasions. And there was this I'll call it. Ignorance is probably not the right word to [00:23:20] it, but there was this sense that many of the, you know, the ritual practices in our organizations were. Equal to all people. So yes, [00:23:30] most businesses worked nine to five type hours.

They had weekends off. And because that was available to everyone well, that, that was an equal way to operate in equal way to [00:23:40] conduct your business. I think you said it quite well on a number of occasions in our conversation is that equal and the perception that's equal completely misses the point around [00:23:50] systemic barriers to inclusion.

And when you build a model that. Immediately disadvantages any stakeholder group within your organization, [00:24:00] then that's not equity. That's not true inclusion. That is simply a construct or a model that was designed in a vacuum. I clearly didn't give [00:24:10] consideration to all the potential impacts of any particular model.

And I think that one thing we have learned in this pandemic is that. Whatever your stance is [00:24:20] organizationally. What people are craving today is flexibility that it doesn't matter where you've come from or where you're going, but that each of our needs are inherently [00:24:30] personal. And that if we focus on the truly important things, right.

You know, the outputs that you deliver as a, as a contributor to the organization, you're fit within the organization and its [00:24:40] culture and upholding its values, the way you work with customers and stakeholders and team members. We really value those aspects of assessing people in their roles. [00:24:50] Then the other things about who was here latest during the course of the day, or who's willing to relocate their family, to pursue a career opportunity, become secondary [00:25:00] considerations and become, you know, Don't become evidence of, if you will, alignment, uh, don't become seen as, you know, evidence of true [00:25:10] buy-in to the company, but rather are just considerations that apply to some people, but not to others.

And I think that, you know, I'm thankful for organizations like yours to, to bring this conversation to the [00:25:20] forefront because it's something that has been long needed, um, and continues to need. Continues to be needed for advocacy, because we need to make a shift in this [00:25:30] space. If the goal is really to provide opportunity, we have to look in the mirror and ask ourselves if what we've done for years and years is truly in service to achieving [00:25:40] the best possible 

Guest 1: [00:25:40] outcome.

Absolutely. And I would, you know, Matt, I think it's important to say I am like, I am such a pragmatist. I I'm the most pragmatic person. You will probably talk to this year, [00:25:50] but the reason companies need to do this is because it will drive better business results. Uh, indisputably from every survey, diversity [00:26:00] and diversity, that functions, which means inclusion and equity improves business results at companies that don't mobilize to serve [00:26:10] diverse talent.

Won't have, won't be able to attract the best talent as we move forward from here and they won't win. They won't succeed. They won't drive shareholder [00:26:20] equity. So. Right now is the time to make investments here. For business reasons for human rights reasons. And, and [00:26:30] it's, it's so wonderful that those all aligned very well.

Matt: [00:26:33] Exactly right. And you've said it very well. I think, you know, we're getting to a phase now where, as you mentioned earlier, [00:26:40] stakeholders, shareholders are. Asking more of the organizations they interact with because they have this understanding now that these are no longer [00:26:50] greenwashing initiatives, they're no longer, you know, bullet bullet point material.

What it actually is a smart business. It's critical. It's absolutely mission critical to have [00:27:00] this. And as a consequence of that, if I'm a shareholder in an organization I'm. Deeply interested in understanding their approach to diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, because if I value [00:27:10] the share price and I value the company's growth, continued growth over time, I need confidence in knowing that the leadership team values these principles and that they're not just simply looking at a narrow lens [00:27:20] around profit and loss, because we know over the course of time that those are short term wins that ultimately get chewed up without looking at the broader picture around things like talent, [00:27:30] diversity, and inclusion.

So as we move forward, I'm curious where that inflection point in broader society, the pandemic has caused a lot of us to look in the mirrors at the [00:27:40] individual team and organizational level. And I'm curious what the pandemic has done for yourself and for you guys. 

Guest 1: [00:27:46] Yeah. So a funny, funny story [00:27:50] when March, 2020 came around, we thought, wow, this is.

You know, brutal. And we actually, it was one of the worst days of my life. We had to let some people [00:28:00] go because we, we decided to kind of scale back and go to our minimum size possible so that we could sustain as long as possible knowing we may not even have revenue [00:28:10] coming in and then it never got. So bad and we never even saw revenue decline.

And then I have to say we've had our best quarter [00:28:20] ever by a long shot in the most recent quarter. So I'm happy to report despite despite, you know, the, the greater. Challenges at this awful [00:28:30] year. Uh, it has, it has taken a, it's had a very good impact on fairy God boss. And at least I'm incredibly grateful for that.

Um, and we've hired back several of [00:28:40] our employees, who we had to let go of, and now we're larger than ever with greater revenue than ever greater audience than ever. So. All in all I reluctantly [00:28:50] say it's had quite a positive impact on our business. 

Matt: [00:28:52] And what does the future look like for both Romy antral Fairygodboss yeah.

Guest 1: [00:28:56] So, um, growing scaling, um, so [00:29:00] we expect to double in size and kind of every direction this year, uh, double users, double revenue, jumbo, double customers, and, um, I will say that kind of [00:29:10] changing the topic a little to what it means to have and run a startup. Scaling is hard. It's the hardest work I have done and in my career and, um, it [00:29:20] it's fun, but I'm, I'm kind of learning as I do it.

And so really rolling up my sleeves and figuring out how, um, how to manage a team that has, has grown from, you [00:29:30] know, that will grow from like 30 to 80. In in 12 months. And how are you doing, how are we doing it in a virtual world? How do you, how do you build and carry [00:29:40] culture? When there are more new people than what I would call old people or people who've been there before.

Um, so, so, um, that [00:29:50] is what is on my plate right now. And it's exciting. It's exhilarating. I'm. I'm also, you know, for in the early days, my co-founder and I were doing a lot of the work, [00:30:00] um, and how we have this amazing team, amazing leaders. So it's, it's really exciting and I'm excited for the year ahead.

Excited 

Matt: [00:30:07] for you. I can absolutely [00:30:10] empathize with your story on a number of different levels. Myself. Having spent close to 20 years in the. World with large fortune 1000 companies having to make the shift into entrepreneurship, you [00:30:20] know, let go some of the lessons and the skills that you spent so much time building and curating only to have to learn new skills and launching a business.

And then going from a pre-revenue [00:30:30] state into a revenue state now into a scaling model. You're right. It's it's incredible rocket ship that you're on. And. Bravo to you and your co-founder for identifying an [00:30:40] opportunity in the market that needs to be addressed on a number of different fronts. And I look forward to catching up again in the not-too-distant future to see how much progress and success you [00:30:50] are having.

Uh, what I will do for those who are interested in learning more about Fairygodboss and Romy in particular is I'll link all your details around me in the show notes, details, the fairy God boss, uh [00:31:00] it's uh, it's a rapidly growing community. That has his heart in the right place. Uh, and we need more organizations to think like this 

Guest 1: [00:31:06] not thank you so much.

That's so sweet. Yes. Please register for our [00:31:10] community. It's completely free and we want women to be members. We want our male allies to be members to please join in the conversation. Thanks Robbie. Thanks Matt.

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