Thinking Inside the Box

How to Have Fun at Work - Dr. Bob Nelson & Mario Tamayo

December 02, 2021 Matt Burns Season 1 Episode 92
Thinking Inside the Box
How to Have Fun at Work - Dr. Bob Nelson & Mario Tamayo
Show Notes Transcript

In today’s episode, we have a 2 for 1 special, as I speak with Dr. Bob Nelson & Mario Tamayo to discuss the release of their book, Work Made Fun, Gets Done. Easy Ways to Boost Energy, Morale and Results.

According to Fortune magazine’s list of “100 Best Companies to Work For in America:” 81% of workers in the companies on the list say they work in a fun environment. Deloitte calls the 2020s "The Era of Workplace Fun." 

With COVID waning, all employees want more fun than ever before. When you make fun part of your culture, workers will prosper— it’s a proven driver of desired results, creativity & better relationships.

And this formed the basis of a really entertaining, dare I say, fun discussion about all things organizational culture, employee recognition, engagement & hybrid work. 

We talked about a world after covid. And how we believe organizations can differentiate themselves from the competition in an increasingly disruptive talent landscape. Against the backdrop of the Great Resignation, fun at work may be more important now than ever before. 

We had a great discussion and I hope you enjoy it.

Dr. Bob Nelson

Considered the world’s leading authority on employee recognition & engagement and President of Nelson Motivation Inc., a management training/consulting company specializing in helping organizations improve their management practices, programs & systems.

He’s worked with 80% of Fortune 500 as a Strategist for HR Issues. Has been a long-time collaborator & confidant for Dr. Ken Blanchard, “The One Minute Manager” and is currently a personal coach for Dr. Marshall Goldsmith, the world’s #1-ranked executive coach.

LinkedIn
Website

Mario Tamayo

Mario Tamayo, a principal with Tamayo Group Inc., has more than thirty years of experience in maximizing human performance, working with companies such as L’Oréal, Genentech, Petco, General Dynamics, The Ken Blanchard Companies, The Anthony Robbins Companies, and 2Connect.

LinkedIn
Website


Thinking Inside the Box

Constraints drive innovation. Each week we tackle the most complex issues related to work & culture.

LinkedIn
Instagram
Twitter
Website
Apple Podcasts
Google Podcasts
Spotify
Stitcher
Pocket Cast

Matt Burns

Matt Burns is an award-winning executive, social entrepreneur and speaker. He believes in the power of community, simplicity & technology.

LinkedIn
Twitter

[00:00:00]

[00:00:00] Guest 2: home. It used to be very clearly in the past that, you know, work is what you're paid for. And then she want to have fun do that [00:00:10] on the weekend, on your own time, you know, we're paying you to work here. We're not going to be goofing around. And so that's, uh, has traditionally been the concept and, and some, you know, CEO's still hold [00:00:20] that close.

That's, you know, no funny stuff here. We're, we're serious about what we're doing. But you can be serious about what you're doing and still enjoy it. You can still enjoy the people you work with. You could still have [00:00:30] fun along the ways. [00:00:40]

Intro

[00:00:42] Matt: Constraints drive innovation. Hey everyone. It's Matt here for another episode of thinking [00:00:50] inside the box, a show where we discuss complex issues related to work and culture. If you're interested in checking out or other content, you can find us at bento, [00:01:00] hr.com, wherever you find your favorite podcasts by searching, thinking inside the box.

And now in virtual reality, each Thursday at 5:00 PM Pacific standard [00:01:10] time in Altspace VR. In today's episode, we have a two for one special. As I speak with Dr. Bob Nelson and Mario Tomayo to discuss [00:01:20] the release of their book work made fun, gets done easy ways to boost energy, morale and results.

According to fortune magazine's list [00:01:30] of 100 best companies to work for in America, 81% of the workers in those companies on the list say they work in a fun. [00:01:40] Deloitte calls the 2020s, the era, a workplace fund with COVID waning. All employees are looking for more fun at work than [00:01:50] ever before. And when you make fun, part of your culture, workers will prosper as a proven driver.

Desired results, creativity [00:02:00] and ultimately better relationships. And this formed the basis of a really entertaining dare I say, fun discussion about all things, organizational [00:02:10] culture, employee recognition, engagement, and hybrid. We talked about a world after COVID and how we believe organizations can differentiate themselves from the [00:02:20] competition in an increasingly disruptive talent landscape against the backdrop of the great resignation.

Fun at work may be more important now than ever before.[00:02:30] And now I bring you Dr. Bob Nelson and Mario Tomayo.

Interview

[00:02:34] Matt: Gentlemen. It is a rainy afternoon here in Vancouver. And yet I have a sunny [00:02:40] disposition knowing that I'm talking to you too today. I'm excited. We have Mario Tomayo. We have Bob, Dr. Bob Nelson joining us today, gentlemen, first off, thank you for joining me. Um, and [00:02:50] specifically, um, would love to learn a bit more about who you get each of our, his backgrounds, experiences, professionals, Mario, why don't we start.

[00:02:56] Guest 1: Uh, yeah, I've got about 40 [00:03:00] years of experience in the human performance field. I started off with, uh, as an exercise physiologist, w uh, did some work with the men's Olympic [00:03:10] volleyball team in 19. In the early 1980s, I went on to corporate wellness, um, with the art, doing all the arguments and trying to.[00:03:20]

Wellness programs and at the grassroots level and in a, the world's largest defense contractor at the time I moved up to management, leadership development and,[00:03:30] um, and on my own in 2000, and it, uh, over the years, I just kind of gravitated toward having healthy work [00:03:40] cultures. And, uh, as, as recognition and fun work environment helped to foster those.

[00:03:47] Matt: Very cool.

[00:03:48] Guest 2: I'm Dr. [00:03:50] Bob here and. Let's see a different, a different path that connected me to Mario. Uh, and that is, um, [00:04:00] I was a writer from early on and, um, I had a chance to work with some. Some grades on, [00:04:10] uh, in business. Uh, we both were fruit. Ken Blanchard wrote the one minute manager. I got my PhD with, uh, Peter [00:04:20] Drucker is considered the father of modern management and, and, uh, of late I've been, um, A personal coach for Marshall Goldsmith is the world's [00:04:30] number one executive coach.

So he asked me to coach him and he said he could tell people you're my coach. Okay. And I've been doing that. So I had a great chance [00:04:40] to work with some great people along the way. Um, I have gotten interested in concepts primarily that are simple, proven [00:04:50] concepts that people aren't using or getting the most out of.

And, you know, Voltaire in the 17th century said the common sense is not common. [00:05:00] And I think it's even more true today that, that, uh, we get caught up in a whirlwind of activity and things to do. And we often. [00:05:10] The things that can make everything simpler and, , to make yourself and others more productive and more, uh, achieving the goals you [00:05:20] want.

And so this is one of the topics. Met 34 years ago at Walt Disney world, the happiest place on earth. So we were destined to [00:05:30] write a book on, on fun work, made fun, gets done, and we've been, uh, we've worked together for a number of years, the Ken Blanchard companies, [00:05:40] and we both have left there and we've kept in touch and we keep.

Coming back and

[00:05:46] Guest 1: working together.

[00:05:48] Guest 2: I pull Mario into, [00:05:50] into client projects and he does the same for me and, and we always enjoy it. And we always are laughing when we work together. So this, uh, as I said, the [00:06:00] same Destin that we would do a book on how to help other people have more fun with their work, with their work team and, and have an organization in which that's part of the.[00:06:10]

Uh, the book has over 400 real life examples from companies of all types and sizes across the country and even around the world. [00:06:20] And, um, it's categorized into things you could do for your individual job and work and tasks. And we all have mundane and boring things we have to do and how you can make those a little bit more fun.

And then of course, [00:06:30] as we're part of working with other people, how you can make that. That effort, that group effort more fun. If you're a leader, there's, there's a lot of things you can in addition [00:06:40] do. And then finally, um, we cover things that as an organization, you can do to make fun part of your culture.[00:06:50]

And, and we really feel it's important to, to do that because it's not, you know, as Inc magazine says on the cover of our book, Fun is frivolous. We know, [00:07:00] unless you want to attract and keep the best people, then it's not frivolous. Same where it's critical. And part of this book as all the ones I've done are [00:07:10] research based.

And part of what, especially intrigued us on this topic, is it the best place to work Institute out of San Francisco? They, they create, uh, [00:07:20] a yearly lists of best places in America to work that fortune magazine publishes and. In that research. One of the dimensions they ask about is, [00:07:30] is fun. Do you work in a fun place and, and 82% of employees at the, the list of the top places, top a hundred places to work [00:07:40] report that, yes, this is a fun place to work and.

Compared that to those companies that applied for the award, but didn't get it. The also rans, if you will. [00:07:50] And only 60, 62% of employees in those companies said that it was a fun place to work. So that, so there's one variable at a 20 point [00:08:00] differential and actually is the most significant differential to identify.

Best places to work. Is there fun places? So we said, we've got to [00:08:10] take a closer look under the hood here, see what's going on. And that's what intrigued us and guys on this topic. And as the research and for the book that we, we [00:08:20] spent several years, collecting examples from companies are real life examples.

And from individuals inter interviewing people and surveying. To come up with [00:08:30] the cream of the crop, if you will, in terms of, uh, uh, just a wonderful start starting to set, to make this part of your reality a little more so that maybe right now heaven knows we all need it. [00:08:40]

[00:08:40] Matt: Yeah,

actually let's say that let's dig into that.

So, I mean, we're obviously in a very unique, uh, era of human existence in so far as we've never had a shared experience [00:08:50] like this. Before. And when I say shared experience, I mean, certainly we've gone through global events. I think about, you know, the great depression world war II that affected large portions of the [00:09:00] planet, but that combined with social media and the dissemination of information and communication and network has obviously fueled a whole bunch of, you [00:09:10] know, incremental challenges from what would have happened a hundred years ago at the same situation that presented itself.

And one of the great intersections of this challenge to your earlier [00:09:20] point. Work and home, and lot of cases have now been completely merged. And for a lot of people work

was on a spectrum [00:09:30] of enjoyable and necessary evil, probably skewed more towards necessary evil. It may not. Your earlier point have been perceived as.

Fun, but it was a [00:09:40] relief. If you will, from home. If you have a family, if you're living in a small apartment and like, oh, you're on top of each other, like where it could be seen as a reprieve in a lot of [00:09:50] cases. And I shared that because regardless of whatever your opinion was of, of work, we've now blended them and meld them the way that they [00:10:00] weren't originally intended to be melded.

And to me, that would make the idea of fun and even more challenging concept. I'd love to hear your thoughts on first. How do you [00:10:10] define fun at work and then to, um, from your perspective. Yeah. How have you seen the definition of fun if you will evolve for present day circumstances?

[00:10:19] Guest 2: [00:10:20] Well, let me answer this second part first.

There has been this merging of working home. It used to be very clearly in the past that, you know, work is what you're paid for. And then [00:10:30] she want to have fun do that on the weekend, on your own time, you know, we're paying you to work here. We're not going to be goofing around. And so that's, uh, has traditionally been the concept and, and some, you know, [00:10:40] CEO's still hold that close.

That's, you know, no funny stuff here. We're, we're serious about what we're doing. But you can be serious about what you're doing and still enjoy it. You can still enjoy the people you [00:10:50] work with. You could still have fun along the ways. It doesn't mean start, stop everything and do a dance party for three hours.

It means a long, the way you intersperse things that [00:11:00] are fun. So even when you're. You have a meeting, you start the main with calling out some, uh, praise for people that are deserving or a fun [00:11:10] activity to get to know each other a little bit better. And, and it just takes them a moment to do that. And it makes it makes the work environment more humane and it makes the people your work.[00:11:20]

As more people that, that, uh, you can get to know and then feel closer to, and then you have a tighter team that's then able to overcome challenges when they [00:11:30] arise, because they've got each other's back. So it's a, it's a very practical thing that you can, you can build into the, into any team, into any organization.[00:11:40]

Um, And with that, I forgot the first part of your question.

[00:11:43] Guest 1: Seed your moment, senior moments.

[00:11:45] Matt: Did you find fun? I mean, it's a big question. I know it's a simple list, but [00:11:50] I just think

fun is, is

[00:11:53] Guest 1: what's fun for some. Is not, may not be fun for others. It's one of the biggest things we found.

[00:11:59] Guest 2: [00:12:00] Yeah. That everyone has a different version of fun.

Like for me, I, I thought I would want, obviously fun is when you're laughing, you're having fun and end of story. But if you asked my, my [00:12:10] wife, which I have, what's fun for her, she said, Well, when I have a day where I got a lot done at work, I feel proud of that. That was a fun day. I go really? That's [00:12:20] what you're not laughing, you know?

And so as the case with everyone, I know that I interviewed for this book. They all had a different version of what fun meant. And [00:12:30] for some reason, A sense of purpose. And for some was, was taking a break, uh, having a stress relief it was all over the map. And that, I think it's really good [00:12:40] news because now, you know, by opening this topic up and allowing people to bring their own version of fun to it, we can appreciate what's fun for them and enjoy it [00:12:50] together.

And again, build that, that human bond that's so important. Uh, ,

[00:12:55] Guest 1: one of the big, uh, ways people have fun is by including their dogs and their [00:13:00] pets at work at the work site. Uh, I met when I worked for Petco, I remember going to their, their headquarters and I, I, I, I w I walked upstairs [00:13:10] and it was a, an open, second floor looked like one of those big insurance companies, cubicles everywhere.

And as I walked up and down the aisles, I peeked into the [00:13:20] cubicles and all I saw were different animals. From dogs and snakes and birds, it was like walking through Noah's Ark, [00:13:30] at the work site. But that was fun for the, for the folks that were there. Other people will play Nerf games, uh, in the hallways.

They'll they'll [00:13:40] have impromptu wrestling matches even, although lately that's probably hasn't gone on, but it's all limited by the amount of [00:13:50] creativity. A person has, and we tell people, just try something different, try something unexpected, as long as you're not taking advantage [00:14:00] and making fun at somebodies expense.

So we believe we do not believe in having pranks because they usually

fail.

[00:14:08] Guest 2: Yeah. Cranky might [00:14:10] be funny for two seconds now. And it would come as it have had, for example, the bone head award for the stupidest mistake of the week. For two seconds. It's it's funny. And, but [00:14:20] then the person goes, well, wait a minute.

That's why always so hard. It's no one helped me and now they're upset and ready to quit. And so it doesn't work to have fun at someone else's [00:14:30] expense, unless it's your own expense, you can make fun of yourself. And that becomes more humanizing to, to everyone that, uh, uh, that if you can make the stakes okay.

For them to make mistakes, it's more important. What we [00:14:40] learned from them when we made.

[00:14:41] Guest 1: So I think, you know, a good definition of fun is, is anything that takes you away from just the, the cognitive part of your, [00:14:50] of your being and allows you to, to enjoy some of the emotional, spiritual feeling part. Um, and I used to be [00:15:00] mad that.

When the old days people were hired because somebody needed a set of hands. And so you were hired to do physical work, physical [00:15:10] labor. And then later on decades later, somebody says, you know, I wish we would stop making those mistakes. So Hey, why don't we start hiring people and having them make decisions too.[00:15:20]

And so then what we did is we hired for hands and then we hired for head. And now later, That's where hiring for the heart and we are addressing, how do we engage [00:15:30] the heart at work? How do we make work healthy for the human spirit? And so fun is anything that allows that feeling to come out, to be enjoyed.

So people are [00:15:40] passionate about the purpose of the organization. Uh, going through the motions to get a paycheck. And that there's a big difference in that. And people, they hit it harder and they, [00:15:50] and they do it until it's done. Right. If they're, if they're truly committed, um, and you don't do that, if you're just watching the clock and say, well, it's time to time to leave.

I don't care where the [00:16:00] project is. I don't care if the customer is still waiting for an answer I'm outta here. You know, that that's, it's going to be a company that falls apart. So, uh, that spirit [00:16:10] that every owner has when they start a company, That, uh, they, they host, you know, ideally they'd have everyone that joins the company, be a part of that spirit.

And that, that passion is, is a achievable [00:16:20] it's achievable to, to integrate people 1% at a time to have them be a part of that, something larger than themselves that they, they can be passionate about and, and [00:16:30] enjoy what they're doing and the results of, of who you're doing it for. And, and also being prosperous as well to make money doing it, to earn a, earn a salary.

[00:16:40] And inevitably, when you, when you work at something that you're, you enjoy, you tend to do a better job. And so you're more likely to be promoted and be paid more. So it becomes a self [00:16:50] fulfilling prophecy. We have a quote in the book that, uh, someone I can't remember who said that, I used to think that, um, I can give you if I got it wrong, Mara, that you need to work hard to be, to be happy [00:17:00] in life.

But I realized that it's being happy. What you w what your work you're doing will make you successful in life. having fun at work in Naples, [00:17:10] And influences people to give their discretionary efforts. It engages them more.

[00:17:17] Guest 2: Yeah. A lot more naturally. And then they ended [00:17:20] up staying longer too.

So for example, I did, uh, aspect of all this is recognition and thanking people. That's a fun activity. People that [00:17:30] need that they want. 85% of employees right now feel overworked and underappreciated. We are it's stressful times and, and the pandemic is added to that [00:17:40] stress at many levels. And working virtually is add to that stress.

It's, it's tiring to be on zoom all the time. You know, you gotta be on full attention and, and it's [00:17:50] a, it's really a little bit unnatural. And so we, we need to counter. Counter those elements to make sure that we're connecting with people that they're valued for [00:18:00] what they did that you'd noticed Sydney caught them doing something right.

And, and that, that alone, if you have a culture that does that well, research indicates that [00:18:10] employers will be seven times more likely to stay working for the organization. So in a time where it's very hard to hire people at any level, In level of skill.[00:18:20] Um, you have to hire fewer people. If you can hold on to people, you got, they're doing a better job for you.

So, and then you do that well enough and you become, uh, a [00:18:30] employer of choice. Uh, and then that becomes. Uh, magnet for attracting talent. You need. So it's a work with a lot of companies that, uh, [00:18:40] that don't, they don't have to advertise for employees like Zappos. For examples company. I worked with that, that they, uh, got known for being fun place to work, [00:18:50] that they got a lot done, but everyone told their friends and families about.

They wish they didn't have to put an ad for, for jobs because people were lined up. They [00:19:00] wanted to be a part of it. I've met. I worked for, for Disney, uh, for 15 years. And, uh, I've met people that have moved to, to Orlando from, you [00:19:10] know, Elia cause they had to. For Disney, they had to be part of this, this company, and it didn't matter what they did.

And, and, and so it goes that, that, that you have [00:19:20] that type of draw because of what you're doing. Um, that's powerful and it helps make the business enterprise more successful.

[00:19:28] Guest 1: Rob, why don't you met you? Can you [00:19:30] mention about the, um, at Zappos? Uh, I don't remember the figures, but when somebody goes to work there they go through the, the onboarding and the training.

And then they're [00:19:40] told what

[00:19:40] Guest 2: happens there. It's a lot of, a lot of things actually. Now devil's in the details they have, everyone, no matter if you're an executive, you go through the [00:19:50] same orientation. It's uh, it's like a 90 day. Uh, period where you, you spend time on the phones, talking to customers and whatnot.

And at the end of that, [00:20:00] they, they say, well, you, we, we know you, you can do this job now because we we've seen it now. We're not sure about is, is this really the job you want to have? So as a [00:20:10] final kind of pop quiz, they give everyone that finishes the orientation, a check for $4,000. If they decide to quit.

So it's a final test. [00:20:20] If you're just here for the money, here's the money you can leave now. And, uh, and, and, you know, people take that home and say, wow, we could really use this money. Well, [00:20:30] is that a job? You, you could, you could see making a difference. Can you, can you have fun? Can you enjoy it? Is there a future there?

And the more they talk about with their [00:20:40] loved ones, the more likely they come back and say, you know, Nice try, but here's your check back. I'm taking the job.

[00:20:46] Guest 1: Many of them are hourly workers, right?

[00:20:48] Guest 2: Yeah. For, [00:20:50] for a job it's probably gone up. But at that time, when I worked in the entry level, jobs were like $11 an hour.

And, uh, so that was like four months pay, basically. [00:21:00] So yes, we all need money, but, uh, nineties. 98% said not I'm keeping the job and this thing about just to [00:21:10] go through that process. If you have a bad day, a month later, where, you know, you were intentional and this is really where I want to be and who I want to be with, uh, you're gonna, you're going to get [00:21:20] to that bad day a little easier, you know?

Uh, and if you were just there for the paycheck, ah, no, you can be for a lot of employees to. They started a job with [00:21:30] one foot out the door. You know, if they're, uh, if they're, uh, their resumes posted, they get pinged. If someone reviews it. So a lot of people are very, [00:21:40] even when they start a company, they're still second guessing it and not quick to leave for the millennial generation, the largest in the workplace, uh, mixed about two thirds [00:21:50] of all, uh, workers are currently from that generation.

Uh, they, their average tenure is 18. I worked with companies where average tenure, you take someone in [00:22:00] manufacturing. The average tenure might be 27 years or 35 years to have a 18 months would be a revolving door. And that's what a lot of companies today are [00:22:10] faced with. Especially if they're working with, uh, retail or hospitality, uh, they're working with hourly, uh, paid employees.

It's it's you go back to Disney [00:22:20] in the central. Uh, Florida, the corridor where there's a lot of hospitality, businesses, a lot of needs. The average [00:22:30] turnover for employees in all of central Florida is about 189% a year. That means almost every hospital. The job turns over [00:22:40] almost twice a year for. 'cause they they're so good at, at these concepts at, uh, having fun, being the happiest place on earth and [00:22:50] recognizing employees, they've got 250 programs just to do that.

Their average, uh, turnover is 11%, 11% versus 189%. You got a [00:23:00] lot more stability in your workforce, which means that a training that you give them is going to last longer. People are going to stay with you longer. And, uh, as I said, I've [00:23:10] met people that have moved. To Orlando, they have to work part of this company.

And I've worked a lot, a lot of people at the company where they've, they've made the whole career there. [00:23:20] They started, it was just a job, but the more they did it, the more they loved it. And now they ended up making a whole career working at Disney,

an example in our book about a guy named Bob [00:23:30] small. Bob is an executives, the top executive for resorts, uh, for Disney and Orlando.

Uh, he used to work what he called a small [00:23:40] shifts. And one of, one of the small shifts he would do is on Christmas Eve. He would go out and he'd go into the laundry room of, uh, of the major hotel at one of the major [00:23:50] hotels there. And he would work with the staff there in doing the. Christmas Eve. And they says, what bought, why are you here?

I [00:24:00] mean, you're, you're, you're the top boss here. You should be home with your family. And he says, no, if, if I, if I expect you guys to come to work, then, [00:24:10] I'm going to be here with you too. And that went a long way. They thought, wow, I will do anything for this guy. And they did. And he was, he was [00:24:20] exceptional.

So the part in our book that we talk about is what, what managers and leaders can do to make for that type of environment. That's enjoyable. [00:24:30] That's fun. That's rewarding.

[00:24:32] Matt: Can I ask you a tough question?

If this is. I mean I'm and I'm,

I'll state my bias upfront. [00:24:40] I've likely read many of the same research papers that you've read that ties financial performance to having fun at work. Um, and you referenced earlier that [00:24:50] a lot of ways fun is a precursor to intrinsic motivation in it, which is a precursor to discretionary effort, which is a precursor to productivity.

So if the science is there [00:25:00] around the psychology of work, and there is potentially several business cases around. That being in the firm's best interest. Why [00:25:10] in 2021, are we still talking about fun at work?

[00:25:15] Guest 2: Well, it's a, it is a good question. And it's, I [00:25:20] think it's a function of that. There's a lot of stuff gets in the way.

So if you start a company and you're working your best to get it [00:25:30] going and you'd get investors. And so you're very, your focus is very myopic. You know, you got to figure out production, you gotta figure out sales or [00:25:40] something. And so it's very task driven. It takes a little bit more maturity to. Once that's up and running to step back from it and say, now, what do we [00:25:50] need as our needs change as the organization changes.

And once you, you make it through, you're going to be, you're going to make it as a company. If you then, you know, [00:26:00] you come to the point of realizing that in order for us to continue to succeed, we've got to attract the best people. And hold on to them. Now, when, [00:26:10] when you're a small company and you only have five employees or 50 employees, that's a little bit easier because you're, you're seeing them constantly.

You're not bound by a [00:26:20] 50 page or 300 page policy manual. You've got flexibility, but as the organization grows, a lot of that goes away and now you've [00:26:30] got policies and becomes more and more, a little bit. Bureaucratic. And maybe even having met everyone, that's joined the company. And so all of a sudden you're, you're [00:26:40] managing strangers that may not have the passion you had for starting the company.

And so that, that whole spirit of, of bringing them along and [00:26:50] handing off and having them understand what you're trying to do and the niche in the marketplace that you see that you're trying to, uh, for a lot of those employees that come later, it's just. [00:27:00] It's just a job and it's just a paycheck. And if, if you meet them at that, then sure enough, you're gonna get them showing up, but you're not going to get their best [00:27:10] effort because they're not truly bought into the larger picture.

uh, I guess it's saying as for any company, as they grow, it's harder to do this. And for, for any [00:27:20] given manager, You know, when you're, when it's small, it's more immediate and personal. I've, I've talked a lot in place. Hey, when my manager first started, he was good about this and, and, and [00:27:30] surveying people and doing some, you know, uh, taking people out to lunch.

He doesn't do it anymore. He stopped doing that years ago. Now it's now he's just barking commands. And most employees [00:27:40] say the only time that. Here from their bosses when they made a mistake. And when there's a crisis, when a customer's complained and I just feel bad if that's what it [00:27:50] comes down to for a manager, because they they've really lost sight of the bigger picture that they've gotta be managing to.

And, and they have to, um, have [00:28:00] gotten lost in the details. I, I talked to a lot of managers. You know, start, uh, each day with the to-do list and half the times they don't even get to it because there's so many problems to [00:28:10] solve and crises and ended up, you know, taking some, something back from an employee and doing it themselves, you know, and micro-managing, and that's not management.

That's it? [00:28:20] Advocating, you know, is you're, you're giving up your, your job. Uh, you have to,

Start ad

Hey everyone. It's Matt here, and I hope you're enjoying today's discussion [00:28:30] before we continue. I want to make you aware of our latest creative project, HR in VR, every Thursday at 5:00 PM. Pacific [00:28:40] standard time. All connect with technology pioneers, business executives from the world's most iconic brands and industry thought leaders to discuss the future of immersive [00:28:50] technologies like virtual rail.

And their impact on future workplaces in partnership with Microsoft we're broadcasting each episode on LinkedIn live [00:29:00] and in front of a live studio audience in Altspace. Joining is easy for LinkedIn users. Simply follow my account, Matt in [00:29:10] VR and stay tuned Thursdays at 5:00 PM. Pacific standard time for the LinkedIn lives.

Or for a truly immersive live experience, visit [00:29:20] alt vr.com to download Altspace on your Mac, PC or VR headset, and join us live in our studio audience. [00:29:30] There you'll have a chance to ask questions, meet me and our incredible guests and connect with others from the comfort of your own home. This is the future [00:29:40] folks.

And I hope to be part of it. And I'll link the details for HR and VR, along with all other relevant information in the show notes of this podcast. [00:29:50] And now back to our discussion.

End VR ad

[00:29:56] Guest 2: If you find yourself, failing, finds themselves in that where they're, they're an activity [00:30:00] trap, and they're doing stuff, and they're frustrated, you gotta open your eyes and say, I'm in a hole. I gotta climb out of the hole and start leading the charge, not chasing [00:30:10] performance and find out what's wrong and fixing that, telling them to fix it, but getting ahead of the curve and start leading people.

And the best way to do that is with positive consequences [00:30:20] and funds. One of those recognition is another one involvement is another one, engaging people, asking their opinion and advice involving them in decision-making. It's a lot of little [00:30:30] things, mainly behavioral too. So, and if you get to see that side of it, now you can lead the charge and people bring people along with you by what you notice, [00:30:40] because what gets me.

No, this gets repeated. And so it's a powerful, powerful concepts that a lot of managers and leaders, uh, maybe never [00:30:50] knew or have lost sight of. And so, uh, it's easy to hold on to how we used to do it. And even now, as we have people coming back, you know, to the workplace, [00:31:00] it's fun to see how different companies are handling that.

And in the New York city, a large banks, they they've all said that. The jobs in the office, you got to come back to the office to see working. Let me say that if you can go [00:31:10] out to eat in New York city, you can come to the office and work in New York city. And it's very easy to say, this is how it's going to be.

But in, so doing that, they're going to lose a lot of, a lot of people that, that. [00:31:20] We prefer to work with more flexibility. We refer prefer to work from home and we've shown that that works now and they want to continue. 65% of employees. [00:31:30] 71% of employees started working from home during the pandemic of those 65% said they want to continue working from home.

And now the pandemic [00:31:40] hopefully is winding up and of those people. 58% say if they can't continue working from home, they will find another job. So again, [00:31:50] it's a chance for companies to, to, um, to flex with the preferences of employees. And right now it's clearly an employees market. They're calling this. Uh, to meet [00:32:00] them at their expectations in order to not just keep them, but to get a better result from them or you can hold on to, well, this is how it's got to be.

And yeah, it could be [00:32:10] right, but then you're gonna be wrong because you're gonna be harder to a full launch, the talent you've got. So

[00:32:15] Guest 1: it's an evolutionary process. uh, you know, more and more people get it. [00:32:20] And when they get into. They know about it. They believe it it's part of their value system, but we still have a lot of throwbacks.

We still have a lot of influencing and educating to [00:32:30] do is with the young people coming through. There's still a lot of young people coming out who are, who believe in my way or the highway. And that's why we have jobs. And you know, [00:32:40] is it's co it's a constant. Battle between the old way and the new way.

And I recognize this and I experienced this when I was doing [00:32:50] wellness in the eighties. That was a hard sell. That was so tough. It's like, you want to work out, do it on your own time. Same thing with fun. You want to have fun? Go do it when you get [00:33:00] home and. Wellness now, and things that are, have to do with wellness.

Those are more acceptable today than they were 30 and 40 [00:33:10] years ago. And the same thing I would predict is going to happen with fun and allowing an environment, not allowing, I shouldn't use that word of [00:33:20] encouraging an environment that allows for nurturing and for the physical, the mental and the spiritual.

And again, as we. Going [00:33:30] through, we're going to get Lee. We're going to find leaders who, who got through who are the old way. And again, it's up to us to, to help. We those [00:33:40] folks either guide them or weed them out. But, um, it's, it's a constant battle.

[00:33:45] Guest 2: I wouldn't call it a battle, but I I'd say it's a, it's an evolution.

The work [00:33:50] has evolved and we need to evolve with it to harness the power of, of getting the most from people, the human element and.

[00:33:59] Guest 1: I would say [00:34:00] a lot, I would say for a lot of people who work for a boss that doesn't want to have, let them have fun at work. It's a battle because they hate their jobs.

[00:34:09] Guest 2: Yeah.

And they, they, uh, [00:34:10] and unfortunately for, and we probably all know people that taken a job that they initially they're excited and they come to hate it and hate the hate their boss. And, and once you know, that [00:34:20] research shows that that, um, when we're at home, Uh, employees spend 15% of their time at home complaining about their boss.

So if we [00:34:30] could, if we could, uh, move that, you know, and then it makes the home life a little bit more miserable. And then, you know, the kids are learning to be complainer's and haters [00:34:40] rather than. Positive and productive. It's fundamentally, if we can move that and say, well, can we have people that enjoy their work and [00:34:50] can they, as well as their managers do things to promote that while still getting the job done.

We're not talking about doing. Fun instead of work, we're [00:35:00] talking about, about weaving it into work. We're celebrating. When you, when you finish a project, I've talked to employees, say w w you know, we talk about [00:35:10] celebrating when we finished a project and four times than that knowledge would not celebrate.

We get two projects now to work on. We get more work because, oh, you finished that one. Oh, here's a lot more. And that's [00:35:20] why, you know, you're going to burn people out. And a lot of people are feeling burnt out now. And so this is a stress relief and on a practical [00:35:30] level, it makes it makes work more productive and people more glad to be doing what you're paying them.

[00:35:35] Guest 1: Yeah, way back when people would say, Hey, our company works [00:35:40] hard and they play hard. And unfortunately, a lot of people found out when they joined some of those companies that wasn't the case. And so what we're trying to do now is [00:35:50] encourage people to actually practice working hard and

[00:35:52] Guest 2: playing hard score.

No, no one, no, we all need money to live in pair bills, but no one works just for money.[00:36:00] There's uh, an initially once you're, I don't care who you are. Once you have enough money to cover your, your basic needs in life. Our, our attention focuses on other things. [00:36:10] Being respected, being part of a team, being part of something larger than ourselves and being proud of where we work.

Um, having a say, being involved in [00:36:20] decisions, being asked our opinion and ideas, if you have a good idea, being encouraged to pursue that. Wow. You know, in research I've done, you know, 92% of employees will [00:36:30] just be asked their opinion. You know, how often do we do that? Not often enough. And, and 89% want to be involved in decision-making, especially if the decision affects them in the job they're [00:36:40] doing it.

Probably have some valuable stuff to offer. Why don't you check in with them? And even if you, if you're the manager, you've got to make the final decision, you could say, I know it would be a better decision if I [00:36:50] have your. That's why I'm asking. It's not a waste of time. It's it's to, to get their buy-in because now we'll be able to implement the decision faster.

[00:37:00] If people are already sold on, on the solution we came up with because they were part of it. So it's the, this can sound like tricks and games, but you weave those all together. And now you've got a great [00:37:10] manager and a great place to work, and anyone can move in that direction. And depending on where you're starting, you know, it may not be a quick.

But if you just take the [00:37:20] first step and you open the door, you can, you can increasingly get better at it. And that becomes inclusive. You tap into what other people have to offer it, [00:37:30] how they want to want to share that. And that starts at the simplest level with your own job. Uh, when I worked together, we did a thing where, uh, people, you [00:37:40] know, just for fun.

And when we started, uh, a staff meeting, this start with a joke and each, each week we'll rotate, who gives the joke, who wants to go first? And [00:37:50] now not everyone was good at jokes, but they got a whole week to practice. Even if they told the joke and it wasn't that good, we all laughed. It was fun.

[00:37:58] Guest 1: And those who weren't all that [00:38:00] great, they would get actually have team members helping them out, preparing them for the next meeting.

So it really encouraged a lot of team building and

[00:38:06] Guest 2: they got a little better. So we, you know, so it's, it's um, [00:38:10] whatever the lay of the land, is it starting there and, and trying something. And even though. No it's really starts with your own work. We have, we, we know someone that they [00:38:20] just, as simple as thinking their to-do list, that, that she crosses it out.

And each week, each day she says, this is my fun list. This is what I get to do today that I'm paid to do. How lucky [00:38:30] am I? And you got a different mental, mental take on it that you feel better about yourself and what you're doing. So you can say, well, that's a, that's a cheap [00:38:40] trick, but it works. It works for her.

It's uh, some people, uh, jot down. You know, you could do something electronically and take it off your list. But some people like writing on a post-it. So like in crumpled up when it's done and have a physical [00:38:50] action that they finished something, you know, it's, it starts with little things and then you can, you can build that and involve others.

And since everyone has a different take on what fun is [00:39:00] that that becomes diverse and, and you get a share. Um, other people's perspective for some people it's, it's, uh, it's a little bit more purposeful. [00:39:10] I remember interviewing a ER doctor out of Los Angeles and they said that they have fun when on a daily basis.

That [00:39:20] their, their mission, their focus is to save lives. And when, when they can make that happen at work, they have fun doing that and they're, they're living their mission and that's, what's [00:39:30] important to them. Wow. Good, good for them. I want to, I want some of that. And for all of us, we can have the same thing.

Who are you serving? You know, how can that be a little bit [00:39:40] more delightful? How can you make their day? And, and, uh, it's not that hard. It's not that hard to. To get in the game. And [00:39:50] we're hoping that, that the book we did will make it a little easier for everyone because you don't even have to be creative.

You can, you can just, you know, we already did the heavy lifting for yet. [00:40:00] We captured real ideas, Mashable companies

[00:40:03] Guest 1: that most of them are low cost to no cost at all. It doesn't really cost anything to have.

[00:40:08] Guest 2: I guess it's mainly now you [00:40:10] can't spend money, having fun and having a huge party and stuff. But at the, at the foundational level is behavioral.

It's tapping into, uh, to your, your work processes and, and the [00:40:20] behaviors and the human connection.

[00:40:22] Guest 1: We often tell people, you can pick up the book and you can open it up to any page and look for something that your group can do to have. [00:40:30] And if you don't find anything on one page, just turn that page because you're pro you're more likely to find something on the following

[00:40:36] Guest 2: page.

We've had managers that say that they take the [00:40:40] book and they, this is pretty much of all my books because I have the same, uh, focus on real life. Examples of what the things I'm talking about. Look like in practice and so [00:40:50] low on the theory and high on the practicality. And so manages the told me, I'd take your book.

I pass around my team and ask them initial ideas that like in the margin. [00:41:00] Now I've got a customized workbook for making this, this team work better. And that's, that's kind of fun. Just the process of doing that because now you've got everyone into the book and now. And in many [00:41:10] ways, all we have to work with this conversation.

So now you can have a conversation. What'd you get out of that book and what, what would you like to do? Uh, next time, if, if we, if we make this goal, we're [00:41:20] talking about how would you all like to celebrate, wow, you guys set the front end and there'll be an incentive working reset. Some, some groups will say, well, can we present our findings to the management team?[00:41:30]

Well, we've never done that before, where I'll see why not. That sounds kind of, that'd be fun and be certainly validating for the people that work. Other people say, well, nah, I want to do that. [00:41:40] Can we have a barbecue? Can we have a barbecue with our families? Yeah, sure. We could do that too. You know, can the, maybe the managers say, well, I'm going to make lunch for everybody.

And I [00:41:50] actually worked with, uh, I hired a manager from Westinghouse and he was a sales manager and, and it was, it was amazing that he had. Yeah, he had a, [00:42:00] a tough job and, uh, you know, the, the team had not made their goal in, in years, and now he's in charge of making that happen. And, and he, you know, tried to get everyone [00:42:10] aligned and, and part of it was, was on, on incentives and fun.

And, and he said, you know, boy, this is going to be some monk. We'd be so delighted if we can make the school [00:42:20] together, you know, and if we do, I'm going to make lunch. For everyone. And it didn't make a big deal out of it, but, you know, and, and, uh, sure enough, they made the school and the [00:42:30] guy brought in steaks and barbecued them and they owned on the parking lot.

The company made a salad and served them lunch, as he promised [00:42:40] to do this is kind of cool. And he goes, No, no, this has been a great experience. I'm so proud of y'all. I'll tell you what if we do [00:42:50] it again next month, I'm making lunch again.

[00:42:53] Guest 1: Very similar to that. We ha we know of a woman who, uh, told her her, uh, one of her direct reports.

Hey, if you make this [00:43:00] deadline here, uh, I'll do I'll wash your car. So he goes, you will you'll wash my car. Yeah. So she made the deadline, she brought the car in and here's the manager [00:43:10] out there and here, you know, junk clothes cut off. I shouldn't wax in the car. They're taking video. This was back when they had the old video cameras instead of the phones [00:43:20] and everybody had a blast.

It was a lot of fun for them to watch the boss wash person's car

[00:43:25] Guest 2: and the, and the buzz was what's going on. Well, Gary's watching Jane's car. [00:43:30] Why is he doing that? Because she made the goal. No one thought it was possible. She made it happen. So the more they talking about and talking about performance, that's helping everyone in the whole company and [00:43:40] Jane becomes a hero and, you know, Hey, will you wash my car?

If I, yes, I will. You know, I know, I know a company in Columbus, Ohio. [00:43:50] That, that, uh, during the recession, when things were tough and they said, gosh, we can, you know, I know people want bonuses and stuff. We, we can't do that. And they said, well, what could we do? What could we do? And [00:44:00] this executive team said, this make a commitment that we will keep the snow off their car, this, this winter.

And every time it snowed, the executive team went out to [00:44:10] all the cars and wiped the snow off. And let me tell you, employees notice that and they felt more like we're all in it together. If they're willing to do a simple [00:44:20] consideration like that, to help us, we can do our best to help them be successful.

It's not as hard. It's not hard to do this. No,

[00:44:27] Guest 1: it's not. I'll I was working with one of [00:44:30] the plumbing ruder companies a few years ago, and one guy says, uh, um, you know, I, I. To what, to one of his technicians, he says, you know what, you're doing such great work. I'm going to, I'm going to send you [00:44:40] and your family to Hawaii.

And the guy says, you know what? I'd really like more and be a lot more fun. He goes, what's that? He goes, I like that set of snap on tools. Why, why wouldn't you want to go? [00:44:50] He says, because I love working with my hands and I've happened to be. Uh, re remodeling our house right now, and this would be fine if I can get my kids to help me with [00:45:00] it.

And we've got everything in that kit to make it happen. Then the manager says great have at it. And again, what's fun for some is not, may not be fun for

[00:45:09] Guest 2: others [00:45:10] to talk about it and ask people. So you're not just randomly coming up with stuff, or a lot of managers will do something that's fun for them.

And don't care if it's fun for someone else, they [00:45:20] just assume it will be. So we, uh, I worked at a company where that. The CEO is a big golfer. And so he's, you know, we're going to do a celebration. We're going to do a golf outing together [00:45:30] for him. And it's just another, another day on the links. But for everyone else, it's like, oh my gosh, I don't, I don't, what do I wear?

I, I don't, I'm going to [00:45:40] look silly. I'm no good at golf. I never got. Wow. Why would you want to do something where people are going to be embarrassed? You know? And, and so, uh, you [00:45:50] gotta, you gotta learn from that. And, and a enlightened CEO would say, well, Hey, what would work better? What do you all want to do?

And actually we have an example of the book on that, where a [00:46:00] CEO was doing that. You know, a team building thing a couple of times a year he'd select and no one, no one ever really liked it. And lot of people didn't come and, and he gave it to another [00:46:10] executive and same results. And finally, you kind of wised up and he said, you know, he was like pushing on a rope here.

Why don't I find someone that is good at this has some energy for, he got a millennial to do [00:46:20] the next, the next Audi. They use social media tools to survey people what they wanted. And then same thing with the calendar. They came up with three ideas and [00:46:30] people voted on it and they ended up doing something that never had done it before.

They ended up doing one of these, uh, uh, medieval shows where there's Joel, Justin and people are [00:46:40] dressed up serving the Turkey legs and stuff. Everyone loves it. Everyone loves the families, the kids loved it. And, and now they, wow. Now we, they had a new pattern for how. Yeah. He knew [00:46:50] he had a hard time getting to what would do it for everybody.

It's so lighten up and, and, and spread out the responsibility and get someone else that's excited about doing that. [00:47:00]

[00:47:00] Guest 1: That's an important point because at one guy after he wasn't just won in subsequent years, if it became a committee, what they do is they got. Volunteers from across section of the [00:47:10] organization to serve on a fun committee.

And some companies we write about, um, even have a VP of fun. They are taking fun very seriously, and they know how strategic it [00:47:20] is and how one, why it is. Uh, it gives them such a competitive advantage over other people in their categories.

[00:47:27] Guest 2: I was working with, uh, presented in, [00:47:30] in Seattle to 800 people on this.

Uh, one person look really familiar to the, I know I've met you before. Yeah. I heard you speak about six weeks ago and I had to come tell you what I did. [00:47:40] Well, what, what did you do? And she goes, I. Pearson. This is real. I'm doing it. I'm not going to ask anyone for permission. I'm just going to do this and [00:47:50] I'm going well, what, like what?

And she goes, uh, we started a happiness committee. It had five people on it. No one knew who any of them were. It was anonymous, but any one of those five people [00:48:00] would say, Hey, it's time to do something Morales to being, or, or, you know, she had a goal, whatever it might be. And I'm, I'm saying, well, what types of things did you do?

And it was just all [00:48:10] creative, fun stuff, low costs. What we did a, we did a lunch up on the roof, downtown Seattle, and we bartered meeting space with a company on the next block, over there's a [00:48:20] limo company. And, uh, they gave us limo rides for, they didn't have any place to meet for their staff. So we gave them.

Conference room, uh, once a week. And we got free limo [00:48:30] rides that we can now give people for, for achievements or their birthdays, whatever. And on it went and, and, and, uh, they got a buzz going in their department and other managers [00:48:40] went to her and said, what are you guys doing? It's like, you're on fire over there.

Come to the next meeting. There's no secrets here. Let's have a joint meeting. And one thing led to another. [00:48:50] And I tell you what, uh, that, uh, fast forward. 18 months from that day, I first talked to that woman, uh, that company, Perkins coy, a law firm, [00:49:00] a law firm entered the best places to work in America.

Number 23 on the list, I would contend from one person in the middle of the organization saying that this is real. [00:49:10] We're going to do it. So one

[00:49:11] Guest 1: person who made a difference. Yeah, and that

[00:49:14] Guest 2: person is it's easy to say, well, if our CEO's on board, we can do it. And that's [00:49:20] always, the that's always preferred, you know, it's going to happen faster, but it doesn't have to start with a CEO.

It can bubble up and you can, you can show success and you can, you could [00:49:30] speak their language to say the impact that we're having on productivity, on customer satisfaction on retention. Which are all can be translated to dollar figures and show the [00:49:40] payoff of doing these things. Many of which don't cost any money to begin with and, and get, uh, get a tremendous return.

I, I worked with a, a, a hospital [00:49:50] in Hartford, Connecticut Hartford hospital. They had a woman in charge of, uh, nursery. And she was focusing on first year and [00:50:00] we're short nurses overall everywhere. We're over a million nurses short because of COVID and demands of the baby boomers and whatnot. So it's, it's tough to [00:50:10] hire nurses and to hold onto them.

Uh, she started a first year nurse retention program and she did it just using one of my books. She did three things [00:50:20] and three things only, and this sounds very simple. It never done is before that, when someone, when they hired someone, they gave him a letter of welcome in the first 30 days. [00:50:30] Hey, you can say, well, why don't we do that the first day?

Well, they weren't doing it at all. So we'll take 30 days. And it's 60 days. If they're still there, they gave him a survey monkey. How's how's it going? Is there anything we could [00:50:40] do to have done to make your, your start with the hospital better? That was it. And the third. Bye at 90 days since they were still there.

And some people had already left because they [00:50:50] had high turnover. Uh, they, they got those people that were still with them. Uh, for the first 90 days they brought in the head of nursing and they brought the results from the [00:51:00] survey monkey survey to discuss with the group they spent, the whole budget was they brought in some months.

A couple of balloons and that was the entire spend on the [00:51:10] program. And they went over those, those examples and they found that for the group where they did those three things, they had their retention improved [00:51:20] 20% for those, those nurses, which translated to a million and a half dollars saved. The first year alone.

Now, if they, if it then went further and actually did some of the items that [00:51:30] came up from the survey monkey thing, they found that retention further improved and it became easier to attract people and off they went, you know, so this is, this is how [00:51:40] any company can do this. Any manager, you could do this, any individual can get starts in their own sphere of influence and make this real.

And that's what we're, [00:51:50] we're offering up to. Give it a try because you will, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[00:51:55] Guest 1: And now our major concern is with so many companies now having to [00:52:00] adopt the hybrid work environment, our concern and our, and our goal is to help these organizations get the right combination of [00:52:10] hybrid work and make sure that they're managing and leading people to nurture them.

Uh, when they have that hybrid workforce

[00:52:18] Guest 2: and to nurture them together, as part of that, [00:52:20] you can be part of the same team and be in different locations. And instead of, you know, the people that aren't here are out of sight out of mind, you can keep them inside, you can [00:52:30] keep them visible, you can loop them in, you can, you can do it on, on the,

[00:52:35] Guest 1: you could have, and they, you can build it up.

So they feel included and they feel [00:52:40] like they're being, they get, they get to collect.

[00:52:42] Guest 2: Or using the tools, the technical tools that are now widely available, it could be from slack to, we work with a company called Allego Lego that has [00:52:50] just incredible video technology that helps people to connect, um, and, and make it easier to, to get feedback.

You can [00:53:00] hear, they can view a video and mark market where they have questions or feedback. And you can just focus on those things when you get together or, or those things when you collected for [00:53:10] the. There's incredible tools available today to make all this lot.

[00:53:15] Guest 1: So I think we're coming up to two minutes to the end of the first quarter.

We've got a [00:53:20] lot planned for you today and you got to stay with Matt burns. And

what's

[00:53:25] Guest 1: the name of the program? bacon inside the virus. We can go. We could go for, as you can [00:53:30] tell, man, we could go forever. A Bob can go forever on this thing. I mean,

[00:53:35] Guest 2: You know, I love, I love the title of your program too, thinking inside the box because there's so, you [00:53:40] know, the buzz for you is, is thinking outside of the box.

But sometimes it's the fundamentals that we've lost sight of. And this is, this is we're talking about connecting people, giving [00:53:50] purpose in their lives and having be enjoyable. And the more we can do that, the more we will capture the whole person. Uh, it's not separate. Like we're [00:54:00] just going to give you a paycheck for the time you showed up and what you did.

It's we, we need to capture the whole person. What they have to offer. For example, I think, I honestly believe [00:54:10] every employee has got a $50,000 idea. If we can find a way to get it out. And for most companies, they don't try for someone.

[00:54:18] Guest 1: What's the name of that printing company [00:54:20] back east in Connecticut, Bob and that book.

[00:54:21] Guest 2: Yeah. Yeah. I worked with a company called, um, boardroom, Inc. They, they, uh, are top publishers of newspapers. Uh, [00:54:30] five out of the top six in the country. And they do hard cover books as well, but they, you know, most companies the way they, they get suggestions, another company, which is [00:54:40] really important because employees have a lot to offer if you check in with them.

But most companies, the way they do it is, is right out of the 1920s. There's a suggestion box in the cafeteria that [00:54:50] has a lock on it. No one's ever opened it, or maybe they open it once a quarter and they give it to the suggestion committee. So it goes over them and shoots them all down. Here's an [00:55:00] idea from someone about making a suggestion, purchasing, they'd go over and work in that department.

What gives them the right to tell us what we should be doing? And they don't, you know, if they people have been [00:55:10] here back, they usually don't. But if they do hear back, it's kind of a form letter. This is why we're not using your silly idea. No problem. You won't, I won't bother you again. And the whole thing closes down [00:55:20] before it even got started.

This company, uh, border meat. They did a, they put that out as. They, they started a program. They call it the I power. They ask every [00:55:30] employee to turn into ideas. Every week. Can you imagine every employee, two ideas every week? Well, the first week that might've been easy, only fix the printer on the [00:55:40] second floor, you know, but, but then it seemingly got harder, but it actually didn't because people got thinking more about their job.

What happens before it gets to [00:55:50] them and what happens to the work afterwards? And they thought more about the customer. There's an endless stream of ideas that any employee has to offer. And it was amazing [00:56:00] instead of having a formal committee to evaluate and shut these people down, they had volunteers from the group to go over the ideas that came in each week and [00:56:10] they said, we're trying to celebrate these ideas.

So someone would read an idea. This is a great idea. You should really do it and then give it back to the person that suggested it. [00:56:20] And let us know if we can help you with your idea. That's a winner. And as a result, they got thousands of ideas. They didn't implement all of them, but who cares? So they implemented a lot of them.[00:56:30]

And you have to year that doing just this one simple thing, but doing it very well, led to a five fold, increase in the revenues in just a three-year period. [00:56:40] Five fold increase in the route just by asking people for ideas, for how we can save money. How can we better serve the customer? How can we improve processes around here?

I remember, uh, one of them[00:56:50] was, uh, when I was there a suggestion from someone in shipping, here's an hourly paid worker in shipping that, uh, he, he said, you know, next time we, [00:57:00] we get this book order. They, they had this hardbound, large hardbound books. They gave us premiums and stuff. Uh, next time we got an order from the.

If we trimmed the print [00:57:10] size by a 16th of an inch for under the next postal, uh, wait, it will save some money on postage and they're going, wow, you and they cut up a book and it, [00:57:20] and they did that. They saved us a God $500,000. The first year, because at one suggested the CEO of the, of the [00:57:30] company, Marty Edelson.

He told me, Bob, I've worked in direct mail for 27 years. I didn't even know there was a fourth class postal rate, but to the kid that's working in [00:57:40] shipping is staring at the chart day in and day out. He knew it was if we can get it into his world and pull from it, his suggestion of how we. Do better. And, you know, he became a [00:57:50] hero and inspired other people to make suggestions.

And on it went, it was, it had unintended consequences that were positive. They went from [00:58:00] having a revolving door turnover to, to no one left anymore. Why would you, you can make things happen here. And it became a place that people want to join because it [00:58:10] was fun and exciting. I remember talking to a woman.

First day of work. I actually caught this on video that, that she said, I came to the office [00:58:20] and I didn't know where I was sitting yet. I was pulled into a meeting and within 30 minutes of coming into this company, someone turns to me, uh, [00:58:30] in the meeting and says, what do you think we should do about this problem?

She said, I almost fell on the floor. I, I just came from a job I had for eight years at different times. They never asked me my opinion [00:58:40] about anything and here, I don't even know where I'm sitting yet. They want to know what I think. And it actually feels pretty good to give them my thoughts. They weren't refined.

But then the more I thought [00:58:50] about the more refined they got and the more excited I got about making suggestions and, uh, that's the power, that's the power of this. And that's, that's a simple involvement technique. It [00:59:00] doesn't cost you anything. Like I said, 89% of employees say, I want. I want to be asked, I want to be involved in decisions.

Um, so it's, it's [00:59:10] really taking that research base and, and finding ways to do these simple, uh, common sense notions that actually [00:59:20] do empower the spirit and the soul where it makes people want to do more of what they're doing. Uh, With who they're doing it and who they're serving. And it makes [00:59:30] the manager's job actually easier because there, the commitment goes up and now, instead of lecturing people and, and, uh, [00:59:40] blaming, blaming them on problems now you're celebrating the successes and, you know, Peter Drucker says that managing.

Getting the work done through others. It's not being a super worker and trying to [00:59:50] be the smartest person in the room and micro-managing, and taking work back and doing it because I can't trust you anymore. That's a dead end. It's getting the work done through others. It's serving them. [01:00:00] How can I help you?

It's not, it's not, you can't do all those jobs. You're just one person. But if you're managing people, whether it's seven or 700, what can you do to make their [01:00:10] jobs easier? Because doing that will make them sick. Which is gonna make you successful and, and it's, it's coming out from a different perspective than sometimes a lot of [01:00:20] managers do.

[01:00:20] Matt: Gentlemen, I, I think that's just first off a really great way to end a, almost an hour of really Sage advice from. [01:00:30] We, we get talking and then time flies by and before, you know, it it's Sunday. Um, but it's not

[01:00:38] Guest 2: Sunday,

[01:00:39] Guest 1: but [01:00:40] it has, it's a two-parter for

[01:00:41] Guest 2: you.

[01:00:42] Matt: Right. But it has been a fantastic conversation. And I think, you know, one thing I'll just take away from the conversation, if nothing else is just how simple this is and how [01:00:50] much each of us have the ability to influence fun, uh, in our individual workplaces.

And I think a lot of times it's easy to. Distance ourselves from the problem and think [01:01:00] it's somebody else's solution to come up with. And this case, each of us have a role to play in making workplaces more fun. Gentlemen, thank you so much for your time today. Looking forward to continuing this chat

[01:01:08] Guest 2: offline.

Thank [01:01:10] you, Matt.

Begin ending