Episode 107 - The History of Bigfoot: Part 1

This week Abby and Alan kick off a journey through the history of Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yeti, Skunk Ape...whatever you like to call them.

Here you can find abortion funds in need of donations by state.

lunaticsproject.com

Get Lunatics Merch here. Join the discussion on Discord. Listen to the paranormal playlist I curate for Vurbl, updated weekly! Check out Abby's book Horror Stories. Available in eBook and paperback. Music by Michaela Papa, Alan Kudan & Jordan Moser. Poster Art by Pilar Keprta @pilar.kep.

Consider joining our Patreon for bonus episodes, spooky literature and deep dives into horror and history. Click here to learn more.

Support your favorite podcast by wearing some haunting and highly specific clothing. Check out our merch store here.

Check out our sponsor Luff Sheets and use code LUNATICS for 15% off, and to support your favorite horror history podcast. 

Luff Sheets
Use code LUNATICS for 15% off.

Follow us on TikTok, X, Instragram and YouTube.

Join the conversation on Discord. Support us on Patreon. 

Transcript

0:19

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the lunatic radio hour podcast. I'm Abby, Brer sitting here with Alan Codan. Hello. And today we have, I hate to say it because we've set up before, but I think this is going to be our biggest series yet. Uh, at least our biggest footed series. Ah, very good. Really? <laugh> that was a, that. Was, I wasn't. Expecting that. That was some low hanging fruit right there. Well. You, you, the delivery was nice. It was smooth. You're very easy audience. As you know, because you have clicked on the episode, we are kicking off a big foot series. Will it be two episodes? Will it be three? Well, it be four only time will tell. Really. You think we're gonna get more than two? Well, we have Bigfoot stories. Oh wow. I didn't realize there's so much to say about Bigfoot. There's a lot to say. And let me say this. When I started this research, I really didn't believe in Bigfoot at all. I really didn't. Oh geez. Here. I thought that it was sort of a silly crypted. Yep. I have now drank the Kool-Aid and I am going to present to you over the course of the next several episodes. Very well researched and outlined evidence and proof from first hand encounters to physical evidence, a you always say, whereas the evidence you don't believe in ghosts, you don't. Well, I'm gonna give you the evidence today. Uh, this is gonna be a tough sell. Okay. Tell, tell me right now. I think Bigfoot is dumb as hell. Wow. You've just upset a lot of people. I, I know. I'm gonna isolate that sound bite. Okay. Blast it out on social media. I understand that. That might upset some people. Yeah, that's fine. Can I say this? Sure. Just to give you a sense of the landscape here. Yeah. I put out yesterday and today poles. That's what you're gonna say. Bigfoot traps.<Laugh> no, I would never, I put out poles on Twitter and Instagram and I simply asked, do you believe in Bigfoot? Yes or no? I was floored both on Instagram and on Twitter. Overwhelming majority said yes. I think you got a strong reaction from a vocal minority. Do, do you know a lot about Bigfoot legend, Bigfoot mythology? No. It's everyone knows that one clip of like big foot walking Uhhuh <affirmative> and like MythBusters took it apart. Like, oh, look at the gate. It's slightly different from here. It's a guy in a suit. Well, we're gonna talk about that at length today. I understand the Pacific Northwest is a large area. Yeah, right? Yeah. I'm sure there's lots of species there that are not yet discovered, but most of those are insects or very, if they're mammalian, they're very, very small to have a giant alpha predator in the area that, and they still can't confirm its actual existence. No, I mean. I, what if they don't wanna be caught and they're highly intelligent. I'm gonna temperature check with you at the end of this and see how you. Feel. Sure. I mean, yeah. I'm coming in with an open mind. Are you? Yes, it sounds. Hey I'm I showed up, right? You said be here at this time and I'm here.<laugh> uh, so I'm here with an open mind. Okay. I've been swayed in the past. Yep. I thought moth man was pretty darn stupid Uhhuh <affirmative> and then we did the episode and I was swayed. I was swayed. I, I, I granted there were some external factors that I was able to pull for my own experiences. Yep. Uh, but after a thorough understanding of moth, man, that became is moth man crypted. Yes. Okay. So, uh, I, I don't know cuz it's like a, it's a bit more supernatural. Yes. It's crypted and it's so much more, but I think largely people think of it as encrypted. Okay. But Bigfoot is the, the is right up there with the Lochness monster. Yes. For like accessibility of crypted. Right. A thousand percent. Okay. Well Lochness monster mm-hmm<affirmative> I don't think is real. Okay. Well actually there's been some new developments in that case, so we'll have to talk about that at some point, too. Okay. Well, if. Some new archeological evidence, I should say in the Lochness monster case. So they, they found his, uh, Facebook page. They have found prehistoric dinosaur bones in other freshwater lakes, which lead them to believe that there could be the existence or at some point the existence of those sorts of prehistoric fish type animals in freshwater lakes. Listen, I went on a bike packing trip this last weekend. I like that term bike packing. Yeah. Well off a bike trail, nowhere near water, we found a rock that was very smooth. Clearly it had been in water Uhhuh yet we were nowhere near water. Okay. So things get places, you know? Okay. Yep. Does it doesn't mean the lock monster. Is real pebble and a whole huge skeletal remains are a little bit different, but okay. I think the pebble that took down Goliath would, uh, beg to differ. Wow. Okay. Well, why don't we cool off and get into some housekeeping because obviously this is gonna be a contentious episode on a totally unrelated. No, I do wanna mention that our latest short film, the witching hour, which you can watch on our YouTube channel has actually gotten into a few film festivals. Juan was in Brooklyn last week, but later this summer it's going to be in, in the Midwest sci-fi short film festival sometime around mid to late August, which will have a virtual component. So you'll actually be able to stream the whole festival and see our film, but a ton of other films as well. So I'm gonna share details when that, when I get them, but we're really excited to be able to be part of that, you know, from afar and be able to participate in a festival. You know, I, I gotta say, uh, I love these little festivals. I think they're so fun. It's such a good, um, there's, there's like a really good community around these little festivals, especially when they're genre based. Absolutely. And I've found so much community in the horror. Sci-fi like even just regular short film festivals too, that have a horror component. It's been so fun to meet other filmmakers. It's like when we it's very similar to when we were at Perricone, just the community of people that are all about this sort of thing. Yes. It is a very, uh, uplifting community of artists. For sure. The other thing we wanted to announce is that we're coming out with a new YouTube series, which is going to be kind of a rendition of our campfire tales episodes on the podcast. But Allen, when he was bike packing this weekend, got some very stunning fire footage and we're excited to kind of bring that together visually. Oh, well let me, let me sure. If I may take the lead on this one. So this is something that we've been talking about doing for probably the better part of a decade ever since Netflix came out with its CRE creme of fireplace videos. We were thinking, wow, what a market that we would love to tap. We, we, we can join them among the greats of fireplace videos. So we packed up all the camera stuff. We went onto the woods, we set up camp, you know, we, we filmed our fire. It was wonderful. But the only thing is like, this was at a public campground. So, you know, there's lots of other people camping. So we couldn't do any sound recording. So we now have these long fireplace videos and, and that some, that range in quality I'll, I'll admit. But they're not fireplace they're camp fire. Sure. These are outdoor fireplace videos. So the original series fireplace for your home directed by the brilliant George Ford really set the bar for what a fireplace video could be. Sure. Very high. Huh? Very, very high <laugh>. And to our knowledge, this, you know, he, he, the he's lonely on top of the mountain. No one is. Well, there's that Darth Vader one, the Darth Vader, one on YouTube where he's like on the funeral PI for like eight hours. Oh, that one was kind of like a cult favorite for a while. I don't know if I've seen this one. Oh, do you want me to show you? Okay. So thank you for sharing that we just took. You're very welcome. Took a little peek. Uh, there's a lot of creative liberties taken in that <laugh> um, we're going for a much more purest approach. No, this is a no nonsense photo, accurate fireplace video. You know, the, we, we thing is we've been putting these on for years. Every time we play board games D and D whatever, it's just a beautiful ambiance in the background, but here's the thing we try. We wanted to record sound, get that, you know, that, that real pristine fire crackling, you know, you get, you, you search out the perfect wood. You make the, so it has like a little bit of moisture to it, but it still burns well, but you get all the crackles and pops from the moisture. You know. It's a delicate balance. It is. It is however where we were there were are there families and there was one that had children and other that was playing music. So we could not do sound recording. So we decided either we could sound design these fully and you know, re recreate the atmosphere, but it strips away a layer of authenticity from the truly discerning viewer. As our viewers are. Right. You know, they deserve the best. Absolutely. So we're we wouldn't hoodwink them like that. No. So what we've decided to do is take our, the few episodes that we shot, we call 'em episodes, cuz it's gonna be season one and we're going to, the sound component is gonna be our campfire tales. Episodes, campfire tales, season one. That's right. Season of the witch. That's right. Yeah. Yes. Uh, the thing is we, we've only done two campfire tales so far, so either we'll recut them to, you know, stretch 'em out or maybe we just make some extras. Yeah. So if you have a short story, we actually have a few submissions already ready to go. So if you have a short story that doesn't necessarily fit on a theme, but you've been sitting on this story waiting to be able to submit it, send it to us at films about lunatic, gmail.com. And we would love to feature it on our YouTube channel and then hopefully someday on the podcast as well. There you go. So there you go. Yeah. It's, it's an exciting time. Now this, this first season, you know, it's real rough around the edges. Season two is gonna be much more polished. Hopefully we'll have funding by then. You know, firewoods not cheap. I have two big foot related housekeeping items surround us out here. Mm. Big foot housekeeping item. Number one. Yes. We have new big foot March. Oh yeah. In our merch store. So if you head to lunatic, project.com and you click on merch and you scroll around all of our beautifully designed merch, you will come across our new Bigfoot collection of apparel. It was designed by our very talented and lovely friend, Olivia. So please follow her on Instagram at all of dot Inc. And yeah. Check it out. There's tote bags, which I'm going to be getting a lot of use out of this summer, but there's, t-shirt sweatshirts all kinds of Bigfoot designs up there for you. So take a look and it's a wonderful way to show some support, but also show everybody around you that you're into weird things like Bigfoot really set the scene before you meet strangers. You know. You know, I, I really feel like we're trailblazers here being the first people to make Bigfoot merch. Yeah. My brother-in-law wears a lot of brewery t-shirts and so many of just his brewery t-shirts have Bigfoot on them. I've noticed it's very, it's Bigfoot is an icon and we're gonna talk about why, but our merch is trail blazing, you know, it's. Have you ever referred to him as your brother-in-law? No, I actually didn't know that I could, until the other day I was describing who he was to me. Someone was like. It's not illegal to say. That brother-in-law <laugh>. I was like, my sister's husband. They were like your brother-in-law and. Then we just call him Steve. Steve. Yeah. He told me, actually, I just told him this a few days ago. And he said he was describing his relationship. To Bigfoot. To the, to the family. And they were like, right. You're the it's they're your in-laws. And he was like, oh right. So we both had the same. We both missed the same memo. But anyway, the final piece of Bigfoot related housekeeping that I have is just that we, I realized putting together this research that so much of it is really visual. That there's a lot of pictures and videos and prints all of these things that we're gonna dive into. Rock solid proof. So for Patreon, we're going to put together a mini documentary, just kind of encompassing a lot of this history, but also showing the visuals of what we're talking about. So head over to lunatic, project.com and click on Patreon to support us and to see that if you're interested. So I'm gonna warn you all. Now, there is a very long list of sources for today and similar to what we, I think we did in the mummy's episode, I'm going to just say them for this episode. I'm not going to recite them again every single time. And we will post them on lunatic project.com. So if anyone wants to really dive into some of these sources and watch the footage that we did or read some of the articles or books that we did, we'll make sure it's public for you there. But bear with me as I walk through our long list of sources right. Now, and as a reminder, everything has been fact checked by snoops. Uh, this, everything here you can is just as official. Um, as the Bible. There you go. Sources for this series, an animal planet series called finding Bigfoot history.com article by Betty Little how the Bigfoot legend began in Oregon encyclopedia article by Robert Wells Bigfoot legend, a live science article by Benjamin Radford, the Yeti Asia's abominable snowman national geographic article hunt for the abominable snowman, a YouTube video. The film that made Bigfoot a star from a creator O P B a citizen times, article by AEN Bigfoot, siting in McDowell for clad TAUs claims responsibility, wait. Bigfoot setting with Andy McDowell. A blog by goon McGregor and CISM, a Los Angeles times article by Scott Martel, Ray Wallace, 84 took Bigfoot secret to grave. Now his kids spill it all things interesting article by Marco Mar Guardol eight unnerving Bigfoot sightings, a Huffington post article by Lee Spiegel, another skunk ape or Bigfoot hoaxer reels, its ugly head in Florida, swamp, a hypno goia.com article monkey business on the union canal, the Bigfoot evidence, YouTube channel, the Bigfoot classified podcast, specifically the Mount St. Helens episodes, a book titled shop. She folklore a SHEF of gleanings a research article by Kathy Moskowitz strain. The Harry man pictographs history.com video on YouTube. The proof is out there, remarkable footage of Bigfoot's footprint, historic newspapers, which we will cite as we go Wikipedia Reddit, the brave wilderness, YouTube channel, and first hand footage and photos from big hunters and researchers and friends who have submitted stories. And I just wanna say a major, thanks to both April Brer and Tessa McKnight for massive research help on this one truly takes a village. So thank you all so much for your help. I have a clarifying question. Is this episode exclusively about Bigfoot or are we also encompassing Yeti's abominable snowmen? The sort. It's 80% focused on north America, 20% focused on similar beliefs globally. Okay. So the it's the that's still fair game. Yes. Absolutely. Okay. I, I, that was my clarifying question. Great. Let's start off by defining exactly what Bigfoot Sasquatch is so that we can really picture it together. Also what's the difference between Bigfoot and Sasquatch. All things that you will find out as you listen to the remainder of the episode. Okay. Okay. Is that part at least gonna be in part one? Yes. If I can get through it. Yes. You're getting snippy. Big foot or Sasquatch is a creature from north American folklore. It's described physically as a large ape-like creature that walks on two legs and is covered in usually dark fur. Typically it's described as being between six and 15 feet tall, but most sightings come in around eight or nine feet. So humanoid, but much, much taller. Everyone usually also remarks on how wide the shoulders are. And so this of course explains the footprints, which would be much larger than a humans would be typically it's believed that big foot legs are shorter than an average man, but with longer arms like the proportions. Like an ape. Right? Yep, exactly. They're thought of to have human intelligence, but they're typically very non-violent towards people though. They have been known to throw rocks, uh, or like, um, to throw rocks at people or to hit trees to make sounds. And they admit this very primal, I guess, is the word for it. Screech or Howell. Uh, we saw this type of behavior in the movie. Primal rage. Primal rage, right? Yeah. Well, I'm sorry. I'm getting ahead to the. You're getting away. The pop culture. Yeah. They're pretty violent in that actually. Yeah. But in real life, they really avoid being seen or interacting with humans real. Life. Huh? Listen, you, you just wait Mister, you just wait. Okay. The main symptoms of a big foot siding include. Psychosis.<Laugh> so a lot of physical evidence that can be found like footprints, obviously fur that can't be attributed to other known species and sometimes like, uh, thin trees or saplings being bent over in a way that couldn't be explained by other trees falling over or, or by known animal behavior of those regions encounters. Usually with large mammals standing upright most seem to show Bigfoot standing at or behind a treeline watching humans. Right? So whenever you see Bigfoot footage or photos, typically they're kind of blended into a tree, observing people. The complexity of Bigfoot is that there are many known hoaxes, but there are some sightings, very famous ones that still remain unsolved. Oh. Quoting from Robert Walls, quote, a few physical anthropologists such as Jeff Meldrum at Idaho state university in Grover Krantz at Washington state university have ESPED the biological reality of Bigfoot based on their examination of the 1967 film footage of a purported Bigfoot taken in Northern California's Klamath mountains or on their morphological analysis of footprints. Some of which exhibit dermal ridges, as those found in the 1980s by a us forest service employee in the blue mountains of Northeastern Oregon, most scientists, however, remain skeptics and dismiss the phenomenon as the product of mistaken identification of known animals or elaborate hoaxes with prints cleverly planted to deceive. Oh yeah. I'd say that's true. So we're just setting the stage right. There are so very intelligent, very respected scientists and anthropologists out there that believe in the validity of the evidence that we're gonna talk about today. And there's others that don't. There's a lot of very respected people that believe in some bad at crazy things. Yeah. But maybe. You think they're bad. Shit crazy because you are close minded. Uh, no, I told you I'm open minded. Doesn't. Sound like it. Well, Touche. Um, by the way, so the, the footage that you just. Say, we're gonna spend lots. Of time. That's like the big foot footage that everyone's seen, right? Yeah. The one that the black and white. It's not black and white, but. Yeah. It's not black and white it's color. I've seen it in black and white. Okay. I think they might have altered it slightly. Yeah. Sounds through desaturation. Saw the remix. Actually. Yeah. Now that I'm thinking about it, it was like video art. Okay. But no. Okay. I it's color really? Yeah. Is there no black and white footage of Bigfoot? What am I thinking of? Lockness monster. The Lockness monster. Do they know each other? Okay. Before we get into the history, let's define the space we're playing in today. Quoting from Wikipedia. It's a 13 by 13 cube. Christ. Cryptozoology is a pseudoscience and subculture that searches for in studies, unknown, legendary or extinct animals whose present existence is disputed or unsubstantiated, particularly those popular in folklore, such as Bigfoot, the Lochness monster, Yeti, the Jupe Cobra, or the Jersey devil. Cryptozoologist referred to these entities as cryptos a term coined by the subculture because it does not follow the scientific method. Cryptozoology is considered a pseudoscience by mainstream science. It is neither a branch of zoology nor of folklore studies. It was originally founded in the 1950s by zoologists Bernard Belmans and Ivan T Sanderson. Okay. Um, we're being very holistic here. She's reaching across the aisle. Tales of big foot type creatures. Don't only span north America's indigenous people, but similar tales exist globally. So this is one thing I'm just gonna pause on here because this happens all the time with folklore, but isn't it so fascinating that we're talking about thousands of years ago, we'll get into the, again, the evidence of it, but there is evidence with that. We will talk about that up to 2000 years ago in north America, the indigenous people who lived here believed in Bigfoot and there's evidence like that globally about the Yeti, about all kinds of different global versions of this Bob petal apelike creature. So I just think it's, let's just throw that out into the room. Let's just let that be something that sets the tone for this. It's out there. Okay. It's in the room. It's very closed minded for us to think that just because we, you know, don't have an overwhelming amount of evidence that this can't ever have existed or that it doesn't exist in some small capacity. Today. I mean, I've traveled quite a bit. I've been to all five boroughs of New York. Oh boy. And I have not once seen evidence of a large byed leap. In the us. There have been Bigfoot sidings reported in every single state with the exception of Hawaii and globally. There are similar legends about creatures, similar to Bigfoot in every continent, except for Antarctica. What the hell is Bigfoot doing in Nebraska? What do you mean? That's an ideal location for Bigfoot. It's just a big plane. Isn't it? There's not a lot of trees are there. I mean, there's big foot. Iowa. Where what's he doing in Iowa? Maybe he's passing through.<Laugh> as we do with Iowa. No, uh, disrespect. Any of our Iowa listeners out there. Just imagine being that big in Harry and being in a swamp in Florida, that sounds awful. That's the skunky. There's a whole other like subculture. What the is the skunky. We're gonna get to it. This is what I'm saying. You are at the tip of the iceberg right now. Everything, all of this realization is gonna explode into existence around you. Your world will be. Rock. Can we pivot to the skunk gate for a second? Is. It no. Okay. What do you wanna know about the skunky? Everything. The thing that I will say about this SCN Cape, just to wet your whistle is that in the video footage that I have obtained, he walks around carrying snakes. That's pretty cool. Like water moccasins that he looks like he's. What's a water moccasin. A water snake. Oh. Yeah. He hunts. So he hunts them and he carries them. Yeah. Or in this, in this very short clip, you can see that he's carrying like a snake. Like a catch and release or he. Eats no, a. Dead snake. I think a dead snake. Yeah. It's pretty. Limply laying there. It's pretty cool. Yeah. So you've seen this. And you will too. Okay. I'm gonna pivot away from skunk Gateses for now because we're gonna kind of work through this history chronologically. We can table it, but we'll have to circle back. We, we will absolutely circle back. All right. So we're going to immediately perhaps jump the shark here and great. Because it's chronologically the first thing to talk about. Oh, but it is kind of like the 4 0 1 class, like this is the advanced class. The 4 0 1. You know, like 1 0 1 is like basic 4 0 1 is like. Advanced. Oh, why you're talking about the, the highway. Oh. No. Okay. So here we go. So bear with me, everybody take a deep breath. It's kind of more about a spiritual side of the story and it's history that's often missed. And I came to find out about this from a suggestion by our friend Jameson rein hour. Who's actually been featured on the podcast before, but on Twitter, he responded to my call for some big foot sources. And he pointed me in the direction of a blog called and kiddo and an online article from the citizen times. Let's start with the citizen times article, which tells the story of how a man named Gowan McGregor was visiting Minnesota and was mistaken for a Sasquatch while wearing a suit of animal skins in the woods, in the winter. We all, we're all, all visualizing this, right? So is a big guy. Well, I don't know how big he is, but he's wearing a suit. He's sew together, dark animal PTs, and completely covered his body. And he's walking around the woods. Like a barbarian. Sure. Like a, like a very cliche barbarian. Right? So now you might be wondering why McGregor was walking around in literally a full body suit of animal skins, which is a very normal thing to wonder. And the reason is that he is practicing a ritual outlined in the earliest recorded story in human history, the epic of Gil mesh. That's the earliest recorded story. Right? So not the earliest writings, but the earliest recorded fiction story. That's pretty cool. Very cool. And in the earliest recorded story of human history, we have big foot ties. Wow. I'm just, again, slowly opening up the scope of this for you. So not only is the epic of Gilgamesh, the oldest fiction story. Mm-hmm <affirmative> in addition to that, it's the second oldest religious text. Second, only to the pyramid texts. As in just any text that was found in the pyramids or is there a fiction? No, the pyramid text are like capital P capital T. It's like a specific set of findings. Yeah. Like the dead sea scrolls. Exactly. Wait are okay. So are the dead sea scrolls pyramid texts? I don't know. We could look into that. We could circle back to that. So needless to say, it's a very important work to understand ancient humanity, and I'm not gonna go too deeply into the epic of Gil mesh itself, cuz it would be a whole thing. There's tons of politics and complexities to early life and Mesopotamia, but it dates back to about 2100 BCE and tells the story of Gilgamesh. The king of one of the major characters in this epic poem is an Kadu a wild man. And Kadu is not only one of the oldest literary or mythological characters in general, but he is also the oldest depiction of a wild man. The mythology goes that he was created in response to the prayers, to the people of Uru. And he was meant to balance out Gilga me who had strayed from the natural world. Here's a quote from Wikipedia quote, the tales of an Kadu servitude are narrated in five surviving Sumerian poems, developing from a slave of Gilgo mesh into a close comrade by the last poem, which describes enou as Gilgo me's friend in the epic enou is created as R to king Gilgamesh who terrorizes his people, but they become friends and together slay the monster whom Baba in the bull of heaven because of this, an Kadu is punished and dies representing the mighty hero who dies early. The deep tragic loss of ENCA do profoundly inspires in Gil me quest to escape death by obtaining godly immortality enou has virtually no existence outside the stories relating to Gil me to the extent of current knowledge. He was never a God to be worshiped and is absent from the list of Dees in ancient Mesopotamia and quote. Okay. So that's just the history, but now we're gonna go back to go and McGregor the man wandering around Minnesota in a suit made of animal pelts. Okay. So McGregor seems to somewhat disagree with the sentiment that N do isn't meant to be worshiped because he does indeed honor him in rituals. One of which is walking around the woods in animal skins, doing this. He has claimed not only scare other hikers, but that he's had visions of long forgotten gods and has had several Sasquatch present themselves to him. That's. Pretty cool. Yes. So you can visit Blogspot dot ANCA, doism.com for more ways to worship ENCA do and learn more about McGregor's way of thinking about this. But again, I thought it was really unique and fascinating, like as a take, not only on SAS watch, but also mythology in general. And I thought the origins of this wild man mythology is important, cuz it's gonna come back when we get to other cultures as well. What, uh, year was this guy? Current current, his blog is current. He has a blog. Yeah. So ANCA, doism, blogspot.com or Blogspot dot and doism.com is a current blog. He again, really believes that by honoring and Kadu in these ways he's had, he's opened self up to visions of Sasquatch, which is again, this sort of thing that is coming up more recently with certain paranormal investigators and people who study this sort of thing that there isn't just crypto zoologists or ghost hunters that all of the stuff is really connected. And that Bigfoot doesn't necessarily need to be a physical Bigfoot presence. Like what if Bigfoot is some sort of vision or sighting that you see in the woods versus like a physical creature? You know, there's all kinds of ways to, to think about this. Okay. You, you got me there. Yeah. That, uh, that seems a bit more plausible. I want you to think about this the way we are thinking about Mo man, right? Yeah. That it's bigger in scope than we, it's not this thing that fits in a box. Right. It's not a big, hairy creature literally hiding in the woods. Right. It is possibly a manifestation of some form that appears to people under certain circumstances. It could be. But outside of those circumstances, it does not have a Capor presence. Could be right. That I, I you've. That seems more plausible. Great. I've already got 'em hooked. I mean, listen, this is, I, I will. Give credit credit credit. Hang on. We're still talking about Bigfoot. I'm not saying I'm hooked. Okay. But I, I will give credit where credit is due. And I just wanna say that the new Kirks and you probably have heard me talk about their, their series. Hellier, they're the ones who have really started this way of thinking or in me anyway, to say that all of these things can be kind of the same thing or have, you know, we think of them as very separate things, these, you know, exfil type topics, but they really could be different than we think. And if we start kind of having big foot hunters and ghost hunters, talk to each other, like what? And like mythologist and folklores, like what could we really find out? So if we just reallocated, I don't know, maybe 30, 40% of our defense budget to cryptozoology probably get some results. Well, unless the government is involved in covering it up and we're gonna get into that later. I don't wanna sound like a conspiracy theorist. But you. Do. There's some interesting things to think about. Okay. The, the government is covering up Bigfoot. That's what you just said. I think it's something we could start thinking about. Okay. Okay. I'm gonna jump ahead from the earliest. Gilgamesh. Palm. Yes. The earliest story ever to 1904. But we're still pre-social media now because we're not with a, a guy in the woods with a Tumblr. Right.<laugh> in 1904 settlers in the sixties river area reported wild men living in the area among them, which has been corroborated by minors from that region for decades since. Wait, hang on. So you're just saying that like there was a citing in 1906. No, in 1904. In 1904, there was a citing that's famous. And since then it has been corroborated multiple times. In 1904 minors of this specific area claimed. Minors as in like whack whack, whack minors or child mins. No. As in adult mins who are mining for coal have had reported that there was something like that, living in the woods around them, that they had all of these run-ins right. Mm. And for decades since minors and people who lived in that area at this time have all like supported those claims. But in 19 24, 1 of the most iconic and historic big foot sightings in north America happened. In what. Year? 1924. This is the black and white one. No, this is color. No, this is there's no evidence here. These are sightings. There's no evidence. Yes. 1924 minors who are working in the Mount St Helen's area, which is in Washington state. Back when child labor was allowed. Reported being attacked by quote unquote apes, the headline read fight with big apes reported by miners and below that fable beasts are said to have bombarded cabin. One of animals said to appear like huge gorilla is killed by party. Also in 1924, a logger named Al Osman claimed to have been kidnapped and held by a group of Sasquatch while logging in British Columbia, quoting from an article by James B Shoeman from the Los Angeles times in 1968. So this article came out after the fact, it was the middle of the night and I was groggy with sleep. 75 year old Al Osman recalls something big and powerful grabbed my sleeping bag and me inside of it, the beast or whatever it was, threw me over his shoulder, like a sack of flour. I could feel it striding on two legs, like a giant gorilla Osman, a Husky lagger, looking for gold in British Columbia in 1924, estimates that he was carried bodily across wild and rugged terrain for three hours. The article goes on to say that he was only able to escape after being held in this like bowl shaped basin area for six days. And after one of the Sasquatch, like there was this whole debacle because one of the Sasquatch started eating his chewing tobacco and got really sick. And so from the chaos that sort of came out of that, he was able to escape. Hmm. Indigenous people from this area have reported similar creatures who would skirt around near their tribes for years and years. Quoting again from Robert Walls, quote, native Americans in Oregon have increasingly situated belief systems as being with deeply rooted cultural significance tribes in coastal, Oregon related Bigfoot to ancient tales of quote unquote wild men who lurked near villages and left immense tracks members of plateaued tribes, such as those at the warm Springs reservation, identify Bigfoot as a quote, stick Indian, a diverse category of, of potentially hostile beings who stole salmon or confused people by whistling causing them to become lost sightings and stories. Continue on reservations today, representing a spiritual connection to the pre-contact past and the resilience of indigenous cultural heritage and quote. That's pretty cool. Yes. I like the stealing salmon part. Yeah. Yeah. Well trick star energy, Betty Little's history.com. Article points out something really fascinating. There is a distinct difference between the history of Bigfoot and the history of Sasquatch though. I think many people use those terms today. Interchangeably. At least the average Joe does, which I say that I am mm-hmm <affirmative> so this is the answer to your big question. Okay. The definitive coining of the term Bigfoot came in 1958, which we'll talk about soon. However, Sasquatch can be traced back much farther. Sasquatch is connected to the wild band mythology. Again, that keeps coming up, right, right. From en CDU to indigenous cultures. The world, the word itself comes from Southwestern, British Columbia and Canada. Sasquatch or Sasquatch. Yeah. Okay. Forgive my pronunciation here on this one. You are forgiven. I'm not asking you for forgiveness for the record, but thank you. You just asked me. I'm asking the listeners. Oh, screw you. The ALS first nation people use the word. SAS cuts. SAS gates. Wild man mythology dates back much farther than our 1958 use of the word Bigfoot. And again, just to call it back to what, how we started the episode, the earliest recorded wild man is from the epic of Gilgamesh, which is, you know, the oldest fiction story we have. Does Anka do look is, is he depicted to yeah, look like Bigfoot. He's depicted to look like a wild, like a wild human wild man. Mythology is usually like a single human who kind of does not conform with society and lives in nature, but isn't in a pack of people or a tribe is just kind of a single person. There are numerous examples from medieval Europe. In fact, that is where the wild man myth really takes shape a simple explanation. It's a man or a figure that lives in the woods alone often called man of the woods as well. And as often compared to the Seder of classical mythology or the Sivan of Roman mythology, wild men are often shown in paintings as being covered in hair. And we're often used in art of this era in a similar way to the green man, if you've seen Heller, you know, so quoting from Wikipedia quote, the medieval wild man concept also drew on lore about similar beings from the classical world, such as the Roman F and Silvans, and perhaps even her Clease, several folk traditions about the wild man correspond with ancient practices and beliefs, notably peasants in the grease songs, tried to capture the wild man by getting him drunk and tying him up in hopes that he would give them his wisdom in exchange for freedom and quote. So I just Googled Silvans just to see what it is. Cause I, I know the name because it's come up in D and D. Oh yeah. And there's actually a whole entry for fifth edition Silvans oh, uh, and it's basically the green man. Apparently they have They have the old father and the young Strider. So depending on how they wanna appear, but they'll like always be, you know, with a tree helping, like they'll like, they'll be with, with the tree, the tree will grow, you know, always around nature. Like. If they just touch the tree, the tree. Yeah. Like poison Ivy powers. Cool know. Yeah. But also they're flash confused with wood. Like they can become the tree. Just like the, like the plot of the X vows episode that we watch for this. Disagree with that. Okay. Well we can come back to that. I think they had camouflage very good camouflage. They had bark like appearances, but they were not made of that. It's also kind of similar to obviously the theme of the second season of Heller, but also if anyone has seen men, the Alex Garland film from this year that I have a lot of opinions about, but that really sounds like the kind of the, the green man trope. Yeah. This is, this is pretty cool. All these, like, I don't know, they sound like pretty like op DRS. You know, they just have the powers of nature. Right. And can either commune with animals or make animals really big or, you know, summon hoards of little squirrels or something, you know, just. It's like how I can turn into a bear in D and D because I'm playing a Dred. That's right. It's pretty rock and roll. And of course there are tons of examples of quote unquote wild men who are not part of a medieval art tradition, meaning people who did live in nature or were othered from society by some other reason, you know? So it was just important to say, it's not all like mythology rock and roll. Sometimes the wild men people are talking about is because of prejudice and discrimination. Sure. What I think is perhaps my favorite piece of evidence. For, for what the existence of Bigfoot, correct. Okay. Is what's called the Harry man. Pictographs. Is this from Harry and the Henderson's. No east of Porterville. California is the tool river Indian reservation on this land is a rock painting, which has been dated by archeologist as somewhere between 702,000 years old. You with me Allen. So slightly younger than Jesus. Correct. It's widely known as the hairy man pictograph, which is on what is called painted rock. Which is a painted rock. Correct. Okay. The paintings are inside a rock shelter and in color they use red, white, black, and yellow. The, so these paintings depict many animals. And what appears to be a mother, father, and child Sasquatch among again, many other families of animals. The hair man painting is also the largest of all the images. The Harry man has an important role in the creation story of this tribe. Like the CRE their, their story about the creation of humanity. Mm. And in these images, he is depicted as crying, which is in line with their mythology. Gorillas. Can't cry. They're not gorillas, they're Sasquatch. And I, I do you, do you know that gorillas can't cry. Definitively? Yes. The creation story involves each animal saying what aspects people should have. Like all of these animals are coming together to create a new species. And they're all saying, like, for example, fish would say, I want people to be able to swim like me. Right. Why? Because they're generous and kind. That's so unhuman of them. Yeah. However, when it was Harry man's turn, he said he didn't want people to walk on two legs like he did, but coyote didn't agree with this and challenged Harry man to erase. And so the winner would decide how people. Would walk. Oh, I see where this is going. Harry man thought that coyote would cheat, which he was known to do. Of course. So instead of racing, he decided to kind of like hop out of the race and help the other animals to create humans instead. And they did this by drawing the shape of humans in the earth and then breathing life into them. Like all these animals, breathing life into them and creating humans, typical. Creation story, shaping outta clay. Exactly. Like Goms. However, the people, when they were created actually ended up being afraid of Harry man and they ran away. And that's why he's sad and crying in the drawing. But Alan, before you comment, I want you to write now Google Harry man, pick a graph and look at it from 2000 years ago. It's kind of bad. You mean it's a bad drawing. It's a bad drawing. Okay. That's your personal opinion. You, you. Why am I looking at this? You want an evaluation? I don't. I want you to see so that your brain can take in the evidence. Why don't you describe it for people? Okay. So it looks like there's three, three things. They look like, uh. Cave drawings. Yeah. They look like cave drawings. They look like, um, okay. They look like, uh, the big Muppet, um, speeds. Sweets. Yes. From the frog prints. Yeah. But he'd no horns. Very smooth head. Sweets doesn't have horns. He doesn't have horns. No like little horns. No. Okay. Well he looks like sweets. That's the big one. The, the medium size one looks like the same thing, but wearing a Crusader helmet.<laugh> and then the little one looks like a penguin. A penguin. Okay. Well it's a. Penguin with an Afro. So listen, make of it, which you will, but it's clearly not a human, right. Uh, it does not. It appears humanoid while there's some very distinct differences. The legs are much shorter. The sure. It's mostly just like the stance of the big one. Like the, the, the mama and the, I mean, we're also arbitrarily gendering these. Yeah. Which now that I think about it could be completely incorrect, but regardless, if not, for the weird arm positions, not weird arm positions actually pretty accurate arm positions of like, it's like the, the thing popping outta the woods, holding up his arms, right. To scare you. Yeah. It, because like you look over at like the, the, the other two that those appear to be almost like bad kid drawings, proportions are completely weird or just, yeah. That's just how unskilled artists, if you will draw things. Sure. But the, one of the large creature humanoid thing doesn't appear that there's a lot of little details put in that appear that they were like deliberate choices that give perspective. Yeah, exactly. So, or of Google. It is it's, it's an interesting, interesting drawing. We're gonna move now to more modern history. One method that is used over and over again, to prove the existence of Bigfoot is the discovery of massive footprints. Large footprints were found in a Northern California logging camp in 1958 along bluff Creek, which this location will come into play in a moment. One thing about Bigfoot in all of this mythology too, is that there are certain locations like bluff Creek in Mount St. Helens that kind of just come up again and again, but anyway, 1958 bluff Creek lagger Ray L Wallace started to report Bigfoot sightings. He also claimed to catch the noises of the creatures and audio recordings though. It was not a surprise to many in the Bigfoot community. After Wallace's death, his kids came clean and admitted. Their father's reports had been a hoax. Of course they were. They explained that he was a jokester and was having fun with it. And he wasn't trying to do anything malicious mm-hmm <affirmative>. It was later discovered that Wallace had been the one to leave the tracks at the logging site. He had used 16 inch carving of a human foot that he had gotten from a friend. And the whole thing started as a prank that Wallace was playing on another logger, like on a coworker, if you will. This is the penguin incident all over again. The penguin incident. Yeah. Like, like, I don't remember these specifics, but some guy for like decades was putting on these homemade cleats and stopping around a, a beach, uh, that was a, a penguin breeding ground. And he fooled scientists for literally decades because he would just do this intermittently enough that they thought that there was like some kind of like eight foot emperor penguin, uh, walking around this beach. And he like, the hoax went on forever. Like they, you know, they, they set up, uh, all sorts of stuff to, yeah. Try to track down this penguin and like he lived nearby. So he got to enjoy the show. That's fun. But yeah, eventually he came clean, I guess when he just got bored.<Laugh> yeah. That's funny. Eight foot emperor penguin. So the, the complexity with the Wallace hoax is that many people cite this as the first thing that really launched Bigfoot from local folklore to full blown crypted. And this is again in modern society, right? Because obviously Sasquatch type creatures have had their moment threat history. Sure. However, it was this story about huge footprints that ran in the Humboldt times that first sparked the term Bigfoot used to describe the massive footprints. Makes sense, got big. Feet in 1958, an article appeared in the Sunday edition of the Humboldt times, journalist Andrew Genzoli was conveying the message from a reader who had written in to tell the publication about mysterious, large footprints, AK Bigfoot that had been discovered by loggers in Northern California. Genzoli immediately connected these claims in a lighthearted way to the legends of the Yeti in other parts of the world, because of the success of this article in the overwhelming response from readers, GZA continued to write about these big foot claims and rumors, which just sparked such a huge interest nationally in modern times, big footprints still continue to be one of those important forms of evidence in the community. Cliff Barkman has one of the largest collections of world. Cliff is one of the hosts of popular animal planet show called finding Bigfoot, which I watched a bit of in preparation of for this series. Do tell how'd you think? I mean, it's, it's kind of got one of those, like, you know, like animal planet show vibe. Ancient. Yeah. Like it's a little bit like it's very produced as it has to be. Right. And I get that it's very produced. I didn't really connect that deeply with any of the hosts, but I only watched the first season. I think there's like 10 or 12 seasons and eventually the new Kirks are on it. So I, I do think it probably finds its voice. At some point. It may find its voice, but do they find Bigfoot? Well, they, they do have tons of like thermal imaging encounters and the auditory things happen, but there's, you know, I, again, I'm only talking about the first few episodes of season one that I watched. So I can't account for the whole series. I'm unconvinced. Let's talk about it on let's talk about the Patterson and Gimlin footage. What's that's the, is that the black and white famous one? It's the footage that is in color that you keep thinking is black and white. Mm. This is, I would say hands down the most famous Bigfoot siding of all time, when you Google Bigfoot an image from this recording is usually one of the first things that comes up. I'm putting that to the test right now. Okay. Big foot images. The very first image is in black and white. Show it to me. That's not black and white. And it is from this footage. The right. And that kind of arm swing that's frame 3 52, which has become the iconic, like way that we depict Bigfoot in pop culture. How do, how do I watch the video. Go to videos. Tapping over to videos. There's a guy in a suit. Okay. Let's talk about it. The alleged Patterson and Gimlin citing took place in bluff Creek, California bluff Creek. Again in 1967, Patterson and Gimlin had both worked in the rodeo prior to this siting. While in the woods, just south of Oregon, they claimed to have captured a Bigfoot walking along the Riverbed, using a 16 millimeter camera. This footage is some of the most highly contested in the community. Some staunchly believe while others wholeheartedly think it's a hoax. It's yet to be proven either way. But before we decide for ourselves, we need a bit of context here. Okay, I'm ready. So in 2005, Bob hous went on TV connected to a lie detector machine and claimed that he was the one who wore the suit and pretended to be Bigfoot in the Patterson Gimlin film. Bam done. He. Passed the test. But despite that, this confession seemed to do very little to convince believers that the recording wasn't real Jeff Meldrum is a professor at Idaho state university who teaches anthropology and anatomy. He is a hardcore believer in the footage, and he has dedicated much of his time to the study of Bigfoot. Jeff, along with his students has studied the anatomy of the creature in the footage at length. Okay. For example, he says that you can see the shoulder blades moving beneath the skin and other muscle groups engaging in the back, the arms in the legs that wouldn't exist in a simple ape suit. Why would they lie. For fame for glory for their moment, their 15 minutes of fame? No, no, no. Why would he lie about wearing the suit. For fame for glory? For his 15 minutes? It's the most famous Bigfoot footage of all time. You don't think someone might. I mean, listen, I'm not defending it either way. I'm just telling you why. I think someone might lie in that position. To be like, listen, I know we just discovered this amazing thing, but instead I'm gonna say it was me in his suit. He came forward like 45 or 50 years later. Yeah. They had their fun. On the other end of the spectrum. There's a video of a costume manufacturer named Philip Morris claiming that he's the. Philip Morris. Yeah. I, I don't know. I couldn't quite find out, but claiming that he sold the alleged ape suit to Patterson, so, okay. A, another notch against right? Yep. Patterson and Gimlin also collected molds of the footprints that, you know, allegedly the big foot created on film. These prints are not like most of the others they showed dragging and push off points and they have been both studied and endorsed by professor Jeff Meldrum. I. Would the professor Jeff Meldrum. Yes. You are such a little stinker. This is big foot. We're talking about. You said the same thing about Mo man. And. I was, I CA and I was swayed this on the other hand, all this evidence is presented of like, Hey, we faked it. We're admitting we faked it because you know what? Yeah. We want our moment to be like it, you know, it's like, you get that extra bump of, of recognition for like, and here's how we did it, you know? Uh, cuz they waited decades, right? It wasn't during its heyday where somebody was being overshadowed and just like, you know what, fuck you guys. I faked it. And here's here's me. Right? Uh, no they waited decades and then revealed all these fake things. Well the guys themselves never did, but other people came forward. Well, okay here, let me give you some of the reasons why I am skeptical. Okay. Okay. So Patterson was very, and he was kind of like the ringleader of the duo mm-hmm <affirmative> he was very much a Bigfoot hunter before the footage was captured, which I think is important to know it wasn't like these guys were out fishing in the woods and they happened upon something. Right. They were people that were already very interested in this, which I think does we have to take into account. Right. All the more reason to fabricate something. Exactly. And Patterson actually published a book about big foot the year before this footage was. Released. Oh, well there you go. I know that's it. He and how many extra copies did he sell? Because he had his little big foot. Footage. I, I agree. The other thing to know is that he profited big time from this footage. He became a celebrity within the community and he took the footage on tour throughout the us and charged admission. Okay. So what. Is. This? 1967. Before people can very easily have their own copies of footage. Regardless of whether or not you believe. One thing is clear though, this footage changed Bigfoot culture forever. Okay. Okay. Before this pivotal sighting Bigfoot was just a local legend, a regional crypted. After the Patterson Gimlin film, the creature became a major icon that literally everybody has heard of. Okay. Not literally everybody, but most everybody next, we're going to talk about the Paul Freeman footage, which I think maybe you'll have, I don't know, maybe you won't, but Paul Freeman is a big foot hunter who reported to have found tracks in 1994 with dermal ridges. So we're jumping ahead to the nineties here. What's more, he has footage, which you can find on YouTube showing his discovery, which was located in the blue mountains. Again, this evidence has been deemed very interesting by professor Jeff. Meldrum. The professor, Jeff Meldrum.<Laugh> the footage shows Freeman walking around in the wilderness, scanning the camera from one oversized print to the other. He also shows the cast that he's making from the prints on camera. And then it pans over to him making the prints. No like he's, he's molding, he's molding them. So on camera, he measures the distance between each print, which is about 32 inches. And you can see from the footage that the area is filled with prints. Like you can kind of, you know, it's very clear. He also discovers on camera tracks that lead up and down this sort of dirt hill that look like drag marks, but that's where things get very interesting. So then while he's, you know, he's recording his footprints, he's recording the MOTS, he's making he pans up. Boom. Bigfoot, Bigfoot. Yep. It was Bigfoot. In the footage. And I wasn't expecting that. I thought it was just gonna be footprints. Okay. And the creature is very calmly waiting at the top of this hill. And when Paul notices him, he sort of just walks away the Bigfoot and many believers point to the excitement in Paul's voice when he sees the creature saying he's either the best actor ever, or it's real. And Paul has like a very good reputation. He's like a wildlife guy. He's a hiker, he's a photographer. And he's not, he was, he's not kind of like this showman swindler in the same way Patterson was. And so people put a lot more stock in, in the Paul Freeman footage. You're saying he's the Bob Don of Bigfoot hunters. There. There you go. Do you wanna watch the video? Sure. Well, before I do, you've seen this, right? Yes. Are you convinced? I wa I thought, I, I don't think a video could ever con be convincing totally because. On the days since CGI was invented, but. Even before that it could be a man and suit. Like there's just, especially with Bigfoot stuff. It's so hard to see. But the interesting thing is that all of the comments are really like supportive, which obviously shouldn't sway you, what you think. But people on YouTube are very hyper critical and they really seem to take, everyone really seems to take to this video. What am I Googling? Paul Freeman footage. So now you've seen the Paul Freeman footage. Sure. Have. From 1994. From 1994. You you're not, you're not convinced. No. Okay. Here's the thing. Okay. As someone who works around cameras quite a bit, you're squinting at me. You're actually glaring. You're glaring with, through squinted eyes. Go continue, continue. When you're filming something. Right. And you're hoping to just capture something, right. You don't know it. It's not planned. You're just, you're just hoping, right. You're fishing basically there. If you happen to catch something on camera, there's usually some kind of, you know, exclamation, right? He exclaims. No, he is like, oh, there it goes. He goes. Oh my God, there we go. There we goes right now. And he freaks out. He starts like chasing after him. He does not, he does not chase he. So yes, he does. He. He runs up the hill after them. Uh that's that? So here's the thing. The thing walks, the thing walks off to the left. Also. Would you run after a 15 foot gorilla in the. No, no, I wouldn't, but I wouldn't, but I wouldn't have the camera start gently panning over to the right over up. Just keep searching around. It's like, oh wow. I saw one. Maybe the let's go on. See the over. Here. You're in, you're reenacting this very poorly. I'm I'm conveying what, what I took away. From this. I'm going to have, I'm going to challenge all of the listeners to go It's called the Freeman footage on YouTube. It's like an eight minute and something video. Sure. But if something walks off to the left Uhhuh <affirmative> where do you look for it. To the left? You, you follow it. He, he has to get up the hill. He does this. This is after he was up the hill. No. He starts looking down at the trail, the right sweep in the brush, just like, Hmm. Let's see if, what else we see. You don't know where he's repositioned himself. This is, this is a, a useless argument. I'm I'm saying is I was not convinced I was his, uh, candor while he was like making the, the, the prince mm-hmm <affirmative> hundred, hundred percent. This seemed very, very accurate. Like, this seemed very authentic. Like what, the way he was speaking to himself, the way that he was kind of the way he was filming things, like, it felt very authentic. Yeah. And then once Bigfoot shows up, he's like, oh, wow, Bigfoot. That's not how he responds at all. He's like, holy cow. And he also proceeds with caution because who knows, you know, if it's a safe situation, I actually think this one is of them all. If. You convincing. Have spent a, a good amount of time and, you know, mental energy chasing something, something that is known to be very elusive, uh, especially when it comes to being around cameras. And then you catch it. Don't you think that'd be kind of an adrenaline rush moment. I think he has an adrenaline rush. He is so just like, Hmm. What's over here. I disagree. Okay. And you're entitled to that opinion. Thank you. Because this is America. I <laugh>, I think the thing about this video, that's more the most convincing, because again, anyone could wear a suit is his reaction for me. Hi him, his responses. And there's actually also earlier in the footage from when he realizes it. There's a moment like around the three, somewhere in the three minute mark where you see a big foot quite close, which you didn't notice it while we were watching it. And I didn't the first time either watching him quite close that he, he doesn't notice. And you didn't notice either because they, what I do learn from this is that they do blend quite well. And they know if they stay still in a wooded area, it's very hard to make them out from the background. I mean, in all fairness, you could point out that, Hey, that's a big foot, but we're watching a super low resolution video. That's gone through a thousand downloads and reloads to YouTube, right. It's, it's a really all three pixels of Bigfoot, you know? Sure. Maybe that, that is a dark spot to have any kind of validity would need like a decent quality version of the video. And that's, that's also like something that I always think of when we see like photographic evidence of some of the supernatural, how UFO, sightings, Bigfoot, sightings, all these things drop off like crazy. Once people start carrying HD cameras in their pockets at all times. I don't think that that's gonna be the case here. Okay. I guess we'll have to figure that out in part two. Yes. All right. I mean, I will admit that you can get into a pretty wild YouTube or Reddit rabbit hole. If you look up footage of Bigfoot, sightings and humanoid sightings and all these things, there's just like too many for us to talk about holistically. And if you wanna talk about modern versions, Alan, They're not more valid than these are though. And these ones seem very iconic culturally throughout history, but you can certainly find HD versions on Reddit today that I've spent many hours in the past few weeks scouring them, but it's, it's still the same thing I can, you can still, you can Photoshop something even easier today than you could back then. Absolutely. So I don't know that the timeline, I don't think that big foot sightings have dissipated at all over the years. But what I'm saying is that once your video evidence, can't be just like hand waved away with like, well, it's kind of hard to see what's going on. It gets thrown out. I'm going to, I'm gonna read a quote from national geographic to send us out of part one quote. In 1969, the board of county commissioners of Scamnia county, Oregon introduced a bill stating that any person found to have slain a Bigfoot creature would be punishable by law by a fine up, up to $10,000 or imprisoned for up to five years. The board did not. However claim that such a creature definitely existed in the United States. The Bigfoot lore kicked into high gear by the seventies and eighties, there was an increase in sightings, footprints, documentaries, and by 1987 Bigfoot even made an appearance in a Hollywood blockbuster Harry and the Hendersons. So we're going to sort of leave you all here for this week at the height of Bigfoot mania. I. Would like to say one thing. Okay. Just, we're gonna look at this law from a slightly different we're in the height of Bigfoot mania, right? Yep. There's a lot of people that believe in Bigfoot and they're would like nothing more than to bring a Bigfoot corpse back to prove to the world of existence once. And for all simultaneously there is just as many people putting on big foot suits to fool people. I guarantee you that this has ended in at least one accidental homicide that they, that they have shot at someone who is just trying to give them a, a little scare or fun story quite quite possible. Could be. So we will leave you here, not only at the height of Bigfoot mania in history, but also at the height of tension between Alan and I <laugh>. And we have a lot of really cool kind of Bigfoot interpretations we're gonna get into next episode. We have some firsthand experiences we're gonna share. We have obviously all of the film and pop culture references, but most I'm most excited to talk about the global versions of Sasquatch and Bigfoot, which is just really fun. So, so lots more to come next episode, hopefully you're all hanging in there with us and you're not too frustrated at the closemindedness being represented on this episode. And we'll talk to you next time. Okay. Bye. Bye.